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You are listening to the a normal cast.

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Sq.

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By Sport,

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issue for climber who are not afraid to

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say

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Climbing

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obsession. Life no obsessed.

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Sc vegan,

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precision,

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stability,

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sc vegan,

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skin like.

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Why are you so obsessed?

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What would you do for the setting?

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All what your for the.

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By.

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Sq.

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What would you do for the sand

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Elevate your sending with the sq.

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And elevate your consciousness

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with the sq vegan,

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all the sending

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without the animal derived materials,

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find the guam at dot com or your

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favorite local shop.

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What would you're do for the sand?

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Alright folks. Get ready.

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Our climber has been out all day.

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Whether they summit it or plummeted? They're gonna

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need an ice cold beard either celebrate or

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drown their sorrows.

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What if they don't drink as alcohol? What

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are you talking about Lac cr?

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Post climate bears as a tradition as old

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as Jim Done poly pro?

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La.

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Aren't you for Wisconsin boy? Wait. Who told

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you that? You never mind.

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To chico you back there.

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L 8.

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Well, Tim Kilometers want a boo

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like me. Or just refreshing clean living and

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ef vessels.

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Another thing we can all agree on is

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this yeti tundra coolers is keeping us colder

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than a polar bears toe nails

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eyes cold.

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Sturdier in the a 3 boat quad anchor

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backed up with a pink tri cam, a

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yeti tundra cooler woke. Outlast just about any

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gear and a commerce kit. Hell, that kind

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of tomato juice over there has been rattling

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around in here for years.

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Somebody kill me.

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So before some of us get popped and

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swelled. Just remember 1 thing,

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without this yeti tundra cooler. We'd all be

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s around and bath warm broccoli cheese water

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by now.

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So if climber know what's what. They'll check

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out all the. Of the yeti tundra cooler

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at yeti dot com or their favorite outdoor

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retailer and let Yeti, finish every best day

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ever. Houses with cold drinks and half 5.

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You gotta get listen. Where playing a at.

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Playing here We're doing on the

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the normal down, whatever it is terrific. Oh.

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Look, you better get up there before you

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panic so it tend to loose.

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You're very good. I have really enjoyed having

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with you. We'll make

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I don't think so.

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What we share continuous style.

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No later.

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Today's show is brought to you by black

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diamond and equipment, lost Fort,

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and with support from maxim ropes.

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Maxim has been keeping the normal cast off

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the deck. Since 2012.

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And now, we can also thank the chill

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folks at Yeti,

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and don't forget our charter sponsor.

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Bon fire coffee. Go to bon fire coffee

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dot com and entry normal at checkout to

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get a great deal on great coffee and

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to support the normal cast.

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And now back to the show.

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Hello and welcome to the Enormous gases. Is

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your host, Chris Ka. It is

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07/09/2024,

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about 10:30PM

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here in Colorado.

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This is and this is episode,

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288

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of the Enormous cast.

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A conversation with second time guest and author

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of

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the book vertical mind,

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Don Mcgrath.

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Yeah. Don was on the show back in

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the olden times.

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20 14,

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decade ago back when I had to explain

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what a podcast was. When I asked somebody

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to sit inside

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of my little Rv and record something. Those

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hal days back at the beginning. Don was

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an early adopter.

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He's kinda rev his role as the vertical

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mind guy. So I wanna talk to about

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what has happened for the last 10 years

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and what he's doing currently.

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But

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before that,

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I want to just say a few words

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about

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John Mid.

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Some of you might know that John Mid

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passed away and his sleep last month at

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the age of 65,

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which was a terrible surprise and

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big shock, I think to everyone John was

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an incredible big wall climber, hyper intelligent gear

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designer, loving husband and father. And above all,

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I think it was John's

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sweet nature and curiosity that made him stand

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out. As you longtime listeners know, he appeared

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on the podcast in 20 17,

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with stories of his wild adventures on Tango,

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Elk Cap and beyond, and it was kind

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of the beginning of a new phase of

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his contribution climbing with d 4 portal alleges

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edges,

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Incidentally, 1 of which kept me and my

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partner Steve D safe during several days of

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storm,

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on our golden gate san on A cap,

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which is also documented on this podcast,

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which is to say thanks, John. Your designs

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and trail blazing set so many other people,

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on the Adventurous path, kept them safe in

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the worst situations

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and help them weather the storms.

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We owe you do see

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R I ip my friend.

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And I encourage you guys to go back

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and listen to that podcast

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with John.

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His person personality really comes through

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great stories,

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great man.

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And finally, my condolences to his family.

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Must be the hardest thing.

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Alright. To the interview with Dom mcgrath. You

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know, I don't do the training thing. Here

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very often.

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So many other people,

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most of them friends of mine do it

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so much better

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However, this whole thing with controlling your mind

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or using your mind

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to help improve the way you approach climbing.

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To help improve the way you approach climbing,

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that's actually really interesting to me.

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Don was sort of early

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to that mode. I think

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mind

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coaching is quite popular now, but he was

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on his own a little bit back then.

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Ar Il was around training beta, dabble in

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it. Anyway, it was good to touch base.

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He's also aging, which we talk a little

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bit about that. That's something I'm facing. Some

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of you guys were facing.

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Something you all will face. I know it's

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hard to believe. I didn't fucking believe it.

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I didn't fucking believe it. Or maybe I

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didn't think I'd make it this far. I

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don't know.

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Anyhow, it's all here. It's a lot of

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fun. Starts cooking out till we get the

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preliminary out of the way. So check this

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out a re

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conversation

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with the author of vertical mind, Don Mcgrath.

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Matt alive did summer show up. And what's

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a climber to do when lounging at the

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lake slash river slash beach gets mind numbing

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boring after a couple dips and half a

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chapter of that classic you've sworn a read

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for the last 8 years to impress your

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mates.

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A h ahab, what's this about Whale anatomy

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again?

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So even though the or is out there

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waiting to suck the life from you like

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an empty snake skin, a climbing we will

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go because well, it's really all we have.

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But Black Diamond has your son kissed back

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with apparel to kick the heat.

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Cover up to cool down with the A

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glow hoodie. Get little stone master retro with

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the cord dirt bag shorts.

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Sun's out guns out with the women's project

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muscle t because well, who doesn't like sweaty

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muscles.

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And don't sleep on a cotton hoodie for

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when the sun finally, thankfully goes down. Black

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Diamond knows we're not smart enough to stay

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off those skillet hot rocks in summer. So

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help is on the way.

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Check out all the summer climbing apparel at

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black diamond equipment dot com are your favorite

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local shop and do your best to stay

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cool with Bd.

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But, yeah, I mean, welcome back, Don. I

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mean, you are an early guest on your

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normal cast. You were an early adopter as

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it were.

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I think if I remember right, we did

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an interview in rifle

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in the old mobile studio,

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parked on the side of the road.

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That right? We started out in the campground,

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and the river

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was too loud. Right. So we got in

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your little mobile studio, we drove up almost

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to them, like a forest. Yep. And I

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remember sitting there and that that was a

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that was a long time. Was 10:10 years

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ago. So that was early on 20 14.

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I think I only been doing it 2

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years or it was it was episode 61.

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1 of the distinctions of the enormous assets

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still hold true is that I was 1

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of the first of the block as far

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as doing the climbing podcast. I was not

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the first. Nor was the enormous cast, my

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first attempt at it actually. It's but, kinda

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sealed myself as as kind of an original

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there. And also, you know, your book, the

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vertical mind had come out. And

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I think you were also kind of, like,

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on the first wave of this idea of

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mental training of looking at kind of the

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roadblocks that our brain. It puts... Front of

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us as far as climbing is concerned. Again,

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not necessarily the first,

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you know, Ar was was out there with

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his program already and stuff like that, but,

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in an early adopter. So let's talk a

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little bit about, the history of that book.

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Yeah. In the last 10 years of of

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out there promoting these ideas and and

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and digging into new ideas around around the

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way we think about climbing.

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Yeah. And I wanna say congratulations, Europe to

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what? 277.

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I think I saw 277,

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something like that. I mean, that's that's a

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amazing so congrats. Yeah.

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Yeah. It's fantastic.

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For, yeah. I remember we were both climbing

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and rifle. Yep. And that's where vertical mind

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really got Genesis.

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I I have been doing some research on

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myself because I humming and rifle, what I

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was finding is I would 1 hang things

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way too many times. Like... And I... And

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then when I would do it, it was

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it would either seem me easy, or I

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sometimes I did things twice in the same

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day.

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And I began to realize that it it

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I I was... I probably was strong enough

276
00:11:19,504 --> 00:11:21,752
physically them a month ago? A month before,

277
00:11:21,991 --> 00:11:24,145
But it was really what was between my

278
00:11:24,145 --> 00:11:26,139
ears. It was really something and I didn't

279
00:11:26,139 --> 00:11:28,546
understand it. So I began researching it writing

280
00:11:28,546 --> 00:11:30,295
articles I had a blog for a while,

281
00:11:30,772 --> 00:11:32,601
and I had the good fortune of climbing

282
00:11:32,601 --> 00:11:35,066
a weekend in rifle with Jeff Ellis, who

283
00:11:35,066 --> 00:11:37,133
is the psychology professor from Adam State.

284
00:11:37,864 --> 00:11:40,096
And so we're sitting there. We had a

285
00:11:40,096 --> 00:11:43,067
great day climbing, and we're drinking as margarita

286
00:11:44,082 --> 00:11:45,676
you know, in the campground. And

287
00:11:46,329 --> 00:11:47,843
Be careful as Margarita, it's all I gonna

288
00:11:47,843 --> 00:11:49,277
say, like, if he gives your a margarita

289
00:11:49,277 --> 00:11:51,986
and 1 might be enough. But we... We're

290
00:11:51,986 --> 00:11:54,229
having end writing a book. Yeah. I'm gonna

291
00:11:54,229 --> 00:11:56,690
break. Go either way. Started... Yeah. Or you

292
00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:58,356
in the maria book. You either you either

293
00:11:58,356 --> 00:12:00,102
end up face down in a ditch or

294
00:12:00,102 --> 00:12:01,626
you write a book. It's... It's the end

295
00:12:01,626 --> 00:12:03,373
or the other. Well, the second day, I

296
00:12:03,373 --> 00:12:04,962
didn't roll out of my car camper to

297
00:12:04,962 --> 00:12:06,312
like, 10:10AM,

298
00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:08,378
but everybody else was gone. But in the

299
00:12:08,378 --> 00:12:10,125
in the process, Jeff was telling me about

300
00:12:10,125 --> 00:12:12,286
his research and by the end of the

301
00:12:12,286 --> 00:12:13,875
weekend, we decided we were gonna write something.

302
00:12:14,034 --> 00:12:15,465
We didn't we didn't know it's called Vertical

303
00:12:15,465 --> 00:12:17,691
mind. And then we had a few calls,

304
00:12:17,929 --> 00:12:19,295
and I think it Think it was, like,

305
00:12:19,454 --> 00:12:21,442
9 months later. We submitted a manuscript to

306
00:12:21,442 --> 00:12:23,589
to Fred Nap at Sharp, and he he

307
00:12:23,589 --> 00:12:25,576
he absolutely loved it. So that's kinda how

308
00:12:25,576 --> 00:12:27,803
it got started there very organically in in

309
00:12:27,803 --> 00:12:31,719
rifle. It's something obviously that everybody has thought

310
00:12:31,719 --> 00:12:32,696
about and

311
00:12:33,311 --> 00:12:35,938
has run into these roadblocks, and it's really...

312
00:12:36,257 --> 00:12:38,105
I think Like I said in the last,

313
00:12:38,424 --> 00:12:40,018
I guess it's been 10 years,

314
00:12:40,656 --> 00:12:42,410
since since you were on the show and

315
00:12:42,410 --> 00:12:44,961
and this project started a couple years before

316
00:12:44,961 --> 00:12:45,040
that.

317
00:12:46,014 --> 00:12:48,091
That we've been kind of formally thinking about

318
00:12:48,091 --> 00:12:48,650
it a lot,

319
00:12:49,369 --> 00:12:52,265
and applying outside kind of knowledge to

320
00:12:52,817 --> 00:12:54,407
what we do in climbing. And I think

321
00:12:54,407 --> 00:12:56,316
the training end of things. The physical training

322
00:12:56,316 --> 00:12:58,225
end of things has has also had that

323
00:12:58,225 --> 00:13:00,451
same... It's process in the last decade,

324
00:13:00,944 --> 00:13:02,379
more. We were kinda shooting around in the

325
00:13:02,379 --> 00:13:04,451
dark and then started to think about it

326
00:13:04,451 --> 00:13:04,691
more,

327
00:13:05,807 --> 00:13:08,278
I guess, eloquently and and with more information.

328
00:13:08,995 --> 00:13:11,239
So you know, tell me about your own

329
00:13:11,239 --> 00:13:13,864
path as far as as using some of

330
00:13:13,864 --> 00:13:14,023
this,

331
00:13:15,058 --> 00:13:17,365
information, you know, you obviously wrote it as

332
00:13:17,365 --> 00:13:19,524
much for yourself as for other people or

333
00:13:19,524 --> 00:13:22,062
at least you researched it for yourself. So

334
00:13:22,062 --> 00:13:23,569
tell me a little bit about your pathway

335
00:13:23,569 --> 00:13:25,234
with what you learned and what you were

336
00:13:25,234 --> 00:13:27,559
able to apply it kind of immediately to

337
00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:28,600
the way you were climbing.

338
00:13:29,399 --> 00:13:31,720
Yeah. I kind started because started out of

339
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:32,200
selfish.

340
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,440
Really, it started out of selfish. I was

341
00:13:34,519 --> 00:13:36,206
I was trying to... Become a better climber.

342
00:13:36,364 --> 00:13:38,348
And I did... I read pretty much everything

343
00:13:38,506 --> 00:13:40,411
I could read. You know, I've I've got

344
00:13:40,411 --> 00:13:42,235
a phd so I'll read everything. Right? I

345
00:13:42,235 --> 00:13:44,792
got research and research and stuff about running

346
00:13:44,792 --> 00:13:48,213
and and and sports psychology and confidence and

347
00:13:48,213 --> 00:13:49,247
all these all these things.

348
00:13:49,963 --> 00:13:50,463
And

349
00:13:50,774 --> 00:13:53,327
1 of the things that that really struck

350
00:13:53,327 --> 00:13:53,827
me

351
00:13:54,204 --> 00:13:56,997
was being in the moment, like, just being

352
00:13:56,997 --> 00:13:59,080
in the moment. And I got thinking about

353
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,145
that. Really, when I coach people, this is

354
00:14:01,145 --> 00:14:02,972
like the number 1 thing that I coach

355
00:14:02,972 --> 00:14:04,719
them on that I see has almost immediate

356
00:14:04,719 --> 00:14:05,116
factors.

357
00:14:06,563 --> 00:14:08,557
1 move at a time. And so I

358
00:14:08,557 --> 00:14:09,993
began practicing on myself,

359
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:12,327
climbing in the moment. And

360
00:14:12,864 --> 00:14:13,342
by that,

361
00:14:13,981 --> 00:14:15,656
I mean, like, when I grab a hold,

362
00:14:16,467 --> 00:14:18,059
I would just get geek out on it.

363
00:14:18,218 --> 00:14:21,401
Like, get so deep at. How does that

364
00:14:21,401 --> 00:14:24,277
feel like, finding the perfect, way to get

365
00:14:24,277 --> 00:14:27,050
the thumb catch and really just going very,

366
00:14:27,129 --> 00:14:29,348
very deep and really working on my mindset

367
00:14:29,348 --> 00:14:30,457
of staying in the moment,

368
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:34,149
And I found that I remember I've been

369
00:14:34,149 --> 00:14:36,389
practicing this for, like, maybe a month or

370
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:37,830
so, and I went with a friend of

371
00:14:37,830 --> 00:14:38,389
mine to

372
00:14:39,029 --> 00:14:39,830
to came in back.

373
00:14:40,484 --> 00:14:42,801
And we were climbing at Dixon wall. And

374
00:14:42,881 --> 00:14:44,719
I, like, did this 12 be second try.

375
00:14:44,958 --> 00:14:46,317
And I didn't do that. Like, that wasn't

376
00:14:46,317 --> 00:14:47,995
what Don Mcgrath could do at the time.

377
00:14:48,249 --> 00:14:50,898
And so that really pointed out to me

378
00:14:51,354 --> 00:14:53,504
the power of this. Right? And that's just

379
00:14:53,504 --> 00:14:55,494
1 example of just 1 move at a

380
00:14:55,494 --> 00:14:57,022
time staying in the moment What's behind you

381
00:14:57,022 --> 00:14:58,453
doesn't matter what's ahead of it doesn't matter.

382
00:14:59,010 --> 00:15:00,681
The more you can stay in that moment

383
00:15:00,681 --> 00:15:02,192
climb and 1 move at a time, the

384
00:15:02,192 --> 00:15:03,147
better you're gonna climb.

385
00:15:03,957 --> 00:15:06,022
So that was like my big wake prize.

386
00:15:06,181 --> 00:15:08,247
Was like, wow, there's really something here. And

387
00:15:08,247 --> 00:15:10,154
that's when I really started digging in and

388
00:15:10,154 --> 00:15:12,790
reading more and experimenting more. And And to

389
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:14,693
this day, I use that in my coaching,

390
00:15:14,931 --> 00:15:16,438
I use that in myself, and hey. I'm,

391
00:15:16,993 --> 00:15:18,579
I may know a lot about this, but

392
00:15:18,579 --> 00:15:19,848
it doesn't mean I use it all the

393
00:15:19,848 --> 00:15:21,855
time. I fall off the wagon, and I,

394
00:15:21,935 --> 00:15:23,611
you know, I've got times. The life gets

395
00:15:23,611 --> 00:15:24,010
busy.

396
00:15:24,728 --> 00:15:26,245
I I get away from climbing for a

397
00:15:26,245 --> 00:15:27,522
little bit, or I get sick or I

398
00:15:27,522 --> 00:15:29,687
get sloppy. And I bring myself back and

399
00:15:29,847 --> 00:15:31,518
I start doing some of these drills and

400
00:15:31,518 --> 00:15:33,189
and I and I see those same payoffs.

401
00:15:33,666 --> 00:15:34,462
1 of the other,

402
00:15:35,019 --> 00:15:37,088
like, kind of trends or or, I guess,

403
00:15:37,247 --> 00:15:40,699
some... There's been a proliferation of coaching around

404
00:15:41,707 --> 00:15:44,246
controlling fear. So vertical mind... I mean, that

405
00:15:44,246 --> 00:15:47,200
was this much bigger kind of... Talking. I

406
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:48,472
know I know fear is a part of

407
00:15:48,472 --> 00:15:50,062
it. But what what do you think in

408
00:15:50,062 --> 00:15:52,448
terms of, like, your your clinics or or

409
00:15:52,448 --> 00:15:54,118
the people that approach you or or your

410
00:15:54,118 --> 00:15:56,529
methods Like, what... How much of of it

411
00:15:56,529 --> 00:15:58,850
is about training through fear and and how

412
00:15:58,850 --> 00:16:00,449
much of it is is sort of other

413
00:16:00,449 --> 00:16:02,209
techniques or other boundaries?

414
00:16:02,543 --> 00:16:04,767
Mean, certainly Fear is something we we talk

415
00:16:04,767 --> 00:16:06,277
about in vertical mind. I mean, something that's

416
00:16:06,277 --> 00:16:07,706
very, very common for climber.

417
00:16:09,136 --> 00:16:10,804
Specifically when we talk about fear of falling

418
00:16:10,804 --> 00:16:13,129
and fear of failure, which are 2 different

419
00:16:13,129 --> 00:16:14,250
types of fear that can,

420
00:16:14,889 --> 00:16:17,210
hold climber back. But I... You know, I

421
00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:19,050
think 1 of the big things we do

422
00:16:19,050 --> 00:16:20,570
that's maybe may... Has made us a little

423
00:16:20,570 --> 00:16:22,584
bit different. I'm sure Mh. Other other people

424
00:16:22,584 --> 00:16:24,985
have probably done it is what is the...

425
00:16:25,144 --> 00:16:27,865
What's the science behind cognitive learning? We introduced

426
00:16:27,865 --> 00:16:29,225
this concept of sc.

427
00:16:29,799 --> 00:16:32,109
Which are how your brain recognizes that these

428
00:16:32,109 --> 00:16:34,738
patterns. Like, you recognize when you're in a

429
00:16:34,738 --> 00:16:36,570
situation by visual cues that your brain just

430
00:16:36,570 --> 00:16:39,691
filters and nose immediately and puts... To some

431
00:16:39,691 --> 00:16:41,682
kind of a tag on it, some based

432
00:16:41,682 --> 00:16:43,832
upon your your memories and your life experiences.

433
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:46,221
And then there's scripts which these automatic things

434
00:16:46,221 --> 00:16:48,068
that come out of your subconscious that you're

435
00:16:48,068 --> 00:16:49,024
in given situation,

436
00:16:49,741 --> 00:16:52,291
they play out automatically. And we have all

437
00:16:52,291 --> 00:16:54,203
of us have these scripts, 90 percent of

438
00:16:54,203 --> 00:16:55,809
what we do is when run off of

439
00:16:55,809 --> 00:16:57,555
scripts. Right? We don't have to think about

440
00:16:57,555 --> 00:16:59,222
brushing our teeth, we just brush our teeth.

441
00:16:59,461 --> 00:16:59,699
So,

442
00:17:00,731 --> 00:17:03,527
I think giving people an understanding of these

443
00:17:03,527 --> 00:17:06,873
psychological processes and then how to why training

444
00:17:06,873 --> 00:17:09,422
works. So like, III love 1 know, I

445
00:17:09,422 --> 00:17:11,733
understand not just what to do, but why?

446
00:17:12,624 --> 00:17:14,449
Like, why am I doing this? Like, 1,

447
00:17:14,686 --> 00:17:17,226
what am I actually doing? And these are

448
00:17:17,226 --> 00:17:19,154
these are well known psychological,

449
00:17:20,098 --> 00:17:21,848
concepts that I think we do a pretty

450
00:17:21,848 --> 00:17:24,315
good job of explaining, given the context and

451
00:17:24,315 --> 00:17:26,861
then drills around those to help you overcome

452
00:17:26,861 --> 00:17:29,262
whatever whatever the challenge you're having is. And

453
00:17:29,341 --> 00:17:31,666
I was thinking too about how, like, those

454
00:17:31,722 --> 00:17:33,651
scripts and and that... That's a good way

455
00:17:33,706 --> 00:17:35,532
to even think about what I was trying

456
00:17:35,532 --> 00:17:37,219
to figure out is... Yeah We also have

457
00:17:37,219 --> 00:17:39,376
these notions of sort of who we are

458
00:17:39,376 --> 00:17:41,214
and and You and I as, you know,

459
00:17:41,294 --> 00:17:43,292
we're we're both growing older, but we're still

460
00:17:43,292 --> 00:17:45,130
trying to climb and still trying to perform,

461
00:17:45,290 --> 00:17:47,060
and you know, that comes with also to

462
00:17:47,060 --> 00:17:48,097
other issues. But

463
00:17:48,975 --> 00:17:50,969
you know, this idea of who you are

464
00:17:50,969 --> 00:17:51,867
as a climber

465
00:17:52,484 --> 00:17:55,355
kinda gets cemented as well and and, you

466
00:17:55,355 --> 00:17:57,759
know, for better and worse at at at

467
00:17:57,759 --> 00:17:59,430
certain times. And I was thinking about myself

468
00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:00,089
and how

469
00:18:00,545 --> 00:18:02,932
recently, you know, I don't think much has

470
00:18:02,932 --> 00:18:04,683
changed in my life, but I've I've noticed

471
00:18:04,683 --> 00:18:06,855
that I'm not not climbing above my gear

472
00:18:06,855 --> 00:18:09,734
and I'm not... And I'm getting gripped, especially

473
00:18:09,734 --> 00:18:11,894
with try climbing, like, a climbing above cams

474
00:18:11,894 --> 00:18:12,454
or whatever,

475
00:18:13,586 --> 00:18:15,334
And and it's kind of been this a

476
00:18:15,334 --> 00:18:17,002
thing where I've finally had to step back

477
00:18:17,002 --> 00:18:18,988
and say, okay, Well, you have this notion

478
00:18:18,988 --> 00:18:21,291
of you as this, like relatively bold climber.

479
00:18:22,022 --> 00:18:24,647
Or at least like a a proficient tread

480
00:18:24,647 --> 00:18:26,874
climber that can, you know, allow his feet

481
00:18:26,874 --> 00:18:28,703
above the gear, you know, at at the

482
00:18:28,703 --> 00:18:30,627
very least not run out, but, as soon

483
00:18:30,627 --> 00:18:32,298
as my waist gets above the gear. I

484
00:18:32,298 --> 00:18:34,048
start to get a little jittery. And so

485
00:18:34,048 --> 00:18:35,423
it's like, I've just recently...

486
00:18:35,799 --> 00:18:37,015
I said to my wife

487
00:18:37,390 --> 00:18:38,901
on a trip I was going down to

488
00:18:38,901 --> 00:18:40,584
climb. In in indian Creek, I'm like, I

489
00:18:40,584 --> 00:18:42,591
just wanna go and and, like, fall

490
00:18:42,964 --> 00:18:44,710
on my cams because I I seem to

491
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:46,321
have lost that ability

492
00:18:46,869 --> 00:18:48,950
And it's like, it's like I changed, and

493
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:50,950
I haven't kinda... And I haven't sort of

494
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:53,509
acknowledged that. Oh, and I've I I finally

495
00:18:53,509 --> 00:18:54,950
had this moment. I'm like, I think I

496
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:56,244
need to go back to the drawing board

497
00:18:56,244 --> 00:18:57,285
here and take some whip,

498
00:18:58,005 --> 00:19:00,085
even just practice falls, which I was, like,

499
00:19:00,404 --> 00:19:02,085
I thought I was way beyond, you know,

500
00:19:02,325 --> 00:19:04,819
practice falling onto to gear, like, you know,

501
00:19:05,058 --> 00:19:06,896
years ago. But here I am again, like,

502
00:19:07,455 --> 00:19:09,372
you know, this script has changed in a

503
00:19:09,372 --> 00:19:11,265
way, and I haven't, like, noticed it

504
00:19:11,859 --> 00:19:13,048
and I need to go back to the

505
00:19:13,048 --> 00:19:14,316
drawing board and do a little training, I

506
00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:15,980
think if I can. I mean, I'm gonna

507
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:17,803
find out if I can get up above

508
00:19:17,803 --> 00:19:19,886
gear at all and and leap off or

509
00:19:19,886 --> 00:19:21,721
not. Yeah. Well they did drift a few.

510
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,034
Yeah. They they drift. And like I said

511
00:19:24,034 --> 00:19:25,868
before, like, I have to go back and

512
00:19:25,868 --> 00:19:27,702
do my training. Like, every once in a

513
00:19:27,702 --> 00:19:29,392
while. I gotta go back. When I find

514
00:19:29,392 --> 00:19:31,862
out that, gosh, I haven't been climbing outside

515
00:19:31,862 --> 00:19:34,173
very much. It's very different than climbing the

516
00:19:34,173 --> 00:19:36,107
gym, very different tread climbing

517
00:19:36,419 --> 00:19:38,416
So you gotta you gotta strengthen those scripts

518
00:19:38,416 --> 00:19:39,875
again. The good news is

519
00:19:40,334 --> 00:19:42,011
they're much easier to get back than they

520
00:19:42,011 --> 00:19:43,864
ought to formulate in the beginning. You know,

521
00:19:44,023 --> 00:19:45,302
I don't think it'll take a heck of

522
00:19:45,302 --> 00:19:47,699
a lot, but they drift. So my guess

523
00:19:47,699 --> 00:19:50,630
is you now have drifted away from the

524
00:19:50,829 --> 00:19:53,302
the the cemented belief that you can climb

525
00:19:53,302 --> 00:19:55,377
comfortably above your gear. There's some doubt in

526
00:19:55,377 --> 00:19:57,930
there somewhere. Your belief is Benny eroded. You're,

527
00:19:58,010 --> 00:19:59,770
like well, what if I fall? I gonna

528
00:19:59,770 --> 00:20:01,516
get hurt? I got a kid now. I

529
00:20:01,516 --> 00:20:03,579
got, you know, there's things that shape our

530
00:20:03,579 --> 00:20:03,896
beliefs.

531
00:20:04,611 --> 00:20:06,529
And so you know, I think just going

532
00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:08,907
back and building up a little arsenal of

533
00:20:08,907 --> 00:20:11,444
uneven falls. You know, Gonna be like, hey,

534
00:20:11,761 --> 00:20:13,522
he'll get that script back pretty quick. They

535
00:20:13,522 --> 00:20:15,991
they've ref reform pretty quickly. So 10 years

536
00:20:15,991 --> 00:20:17,424
has gone by, as I mentioned in the

537
00:20:17,424 --> 00:20:20,075
beginning, and obviously, you've learned a lot more

538
00:20:20,132 --> 00:20:22,295
since vertical mine came out. Tell me a

539
00:20:22,295 --> 00:20:24,117
little bit about that about sort of your

540
00:20:24,117 --> 00:20:25,489
progress as a coach

541
00:20:26,257 --> 00:20:28,873
with other people, your progress with yourself over

542
00:20:28,873 --> 00:20:30,561
the last... The years. Is there is there

543
00:20:30,561 --> 00:20:32,795
certain insights you can point to that that

544
00:20:32,795 --> 00:20:33,295
maybe

545
00:20:33,992 --> 00:20:36,566
have have been more significant than others

546
00:20:37,117 --> 00:20:39,107
since the book was written and since you

547
00:20:39,107 --> 00:20:40,642
sort of embarked on this

548
00:20:41,018 --> 00:20:43,269
mission, because that... It's funny because with these

549
00:20:43,406 --> 00:20:45,567
these sorts of things, it it becomes a

550
00:20:45,567 --> 00:20:47,949
mission to sort of change everybody's lives for

551
00:20:47,949 --> 00:20:49,855
the better, and I think you've been on

552
00:20:49,855 --> 00:20:51,228
that mission for 10 years

553
00:20:51,601 --> 00:20:53,443
as a coach. It Day. Just would just

554
00:20:53,443 --> 00:20:55,272
wanna help people so they don't have to

555
00:20:55,272 --> 00:20:57,656
take the long road. So I guess there's

556
00:20:57,656 --> 00:20:59,723
a couple of things. 1 thing that I've

557
00:20:59,723 --> 00:21:01,154
seen in my workshops that...

558
00:21:02,205 --> 00:21:04,945
The most impactful thing, and is it seems

559
00:21:05,164 --> 00:21:06,125
like a silly thing,

560
00:21:06,765 --> 00:21:08,285
but I've just seen it work over and

561
00:21:08,285 --> 00:21:09,965
over again and my... In more workshops I

562
00:21:09,965 --> 00:21:11,898
teach these the pre climb ritual. Because 1

563
00:21:11,898 --> 00:21:13,332
of the... 1 of the things that happens

564
00:21:13,332 --> 00:21:15,801
to us is, you know, we'll go climb

565
00:21:15,801 --> 00:21:17,315
on a given day. Some days, we have

566
00:21:17,315 --> 00:21:18,350
good days. Some of these days we have

567
00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:20,120
bet. Some days we were more nervous when

568
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:22,034
we're climbing. Some days we say, get a

569
00:21:22,034 --> 00:21:23,709
bat burrito. I don't feel so good today.

570
00:21:23,868 --> 00:21:26,580
And our our motivation and our fun can

571
00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:28,549
actually fluctuate with that. And 1 of the

572
00:21:28,669 --> 00:21:29,727
big things is

573
00:21:30,183 --> 00:21:31,776
getting in the right state of mind when

574
00:21:31,776 --> 00:21:34,746
you start a climb. Getting in a consistent

575
00:21:34,963 --> 00:21:36,732
state of mind when you're start a climb.

576
00:21:36,812 --> 00:21:39,446
And that usually wants to be a pretty

577
00:21:39,446 --> 00:21:41,681
calm state of mind. Usually wanna be kinda

578
00:21:41,681 --> 00:21:43,357
unless you're doing some big d right off

579
00:21:43,357 --> 00:21:45,287
the deck. You know? You wanna be kinda

580
00:21:45,287 --> 00:21:47,680
a a calm state of mind, not distracted

581
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,594
and very very focused on what you're doing,

582
00:21:49,753 --> 00:21:52,145
breathing. So there's a series of things I

583
00:21:52,145 --> 00:21:54,794
teach in my workshops about... You the pre

584
00:21:54,794 --> 00:21:56,232
ritual and what to do to get to

585
00:21:56,232 --> 00:21:59,109
that state and involves breathing it involves a

586
00:21:59,109 --> 00:22:02,386
safety check. It involves stop replacement, like mine

587
00:22:02,386 --> 00:22:04,075
is 1 move at a time. So as

588
00:22:04,075 --> 00:22:06,615
soon as I am up, you know, soon

589
00:22:06,615 --> 00:22:09,156
as I'm up climbing. I start driving out

590
00:22:09,156 --> 00:22:10,903
all those negative thoughts like, oh, the knee

591
00:22:10,903 --> 00:22:12,490
bar is gonna hurt this time or oh.

592
00:22:12,744 --> 00:22:14,416
Be a scary wallet there. The crux is

593
00:22:14,416 --> 00:22:17,282
really hard. It's just astounding what some simple,

594
00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:20,387
simple things can make a huge difference for

595
00:22:20,387 --> 00:22:22,629
people. It could And I've seen in a

596
00:22:22,629 --> 00:22:24,936
couple hours, these things help people in their

597
00:22:24,936 --> 00:22:25,255
climbing.

598
00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:28,436
So that... That's 1. That's been astounding. That

599
00:22:28,436 --> 00:22:30,285
just such a simple thing is... Creating and

600
00:22:30,285 --> 00:22:30,785
practicing

601
00:22:32,045 --> 00:22:33,725
a pre time ritual, and what what what

602
00:22:33,805 --> 00:22:35,025
I ask people to do

603
00:22:35,485 --> 00:22:37,164
is doing it on every climb. The warm

604
00:22:37,164 --> 00:22:38,684
up everything, you know,

605
00:22:39,658 --> 00:22:41,572
practice practice all this stuff in your warm

606
00:22:41,572 --> 00:22:43,826
offs we don't learn to play the Piano

607
00:22:43,964 --> 00:22:45,798
on the stage at the Grand old op.

608
00:22:46,356 --> 00:22:48,030
We learn in a safe environment.

609
00:22:48,603 --> 00:22:51,569
Where we can practice slowly and deliberately

610
00:22:51,944 --> 00:22:52,762
and mindful.

611
00:22:53,774 --> 00:22:54,274
So

612
00:22:54,649 --> 00:22:54,967
that's

613
00:22:55,698 --> 00:22:57,126
that's kinda of... It's may seem like a

614
00:22:57,126 --> 00:22:59,745
silly thing, but having people have used who

615
00:22:59,745 --> 00:23:01,729
religiously use a pre prime ritual. They find

616
00:23:01,729 --> 00:23:03,713
a big difference in their ability to...

617
00:23:04,284 --> 00:23:05,880
To climb get more joy out of their

618
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,635
climbing on a climbing day. Yeah. I mean,

619
00:23:07,874 --> 00:23:09,709
it's it's interesting to kind of, like,

620
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:13,637
Again, I mean, going back to, I guess,

621
00:23:13,876 --> 00:23:14,376
my

622
00:23:15,474 --> 00:23:17,173
you know, pre conceived notions

623
00:23:17,791 --> 00:23:18,291
is,

624
00:23:18,670 --> 00:23:21,398
like, Yeah. Like, all that would seem to

625
00:23:21,398 --> 00:23:23,312
me or would have seemed to me, like,

626
00:23:23,471 --> 00:23:25,067
kind of fl fl. I'm like, yeah, whatever.

627
00:23:25,226 --> 00:23:27,460
Like, you know, just... I'm tied in. I'm

628
00:23:27,539 --> 00:23:28,337
I'm going climbing.

629
00:23:29,229 --> 00:23:29,548
You know,

630
00:23:30,186 --> 00:23:31,542
I don't I don't have to do all

631
00:23:31,542 --> 00:23:32,840
these sorts of things

632
00:23:33,616 --> 00:23:34,972
as part of my climbing day.

633
00:23:35,769 --> 00:23:37,125
And is it... Do you find it, like,

634
00:23:37,365 --> 00:23:38,721
tricky to convince, like,

635
00:23:39,454 --> 00:23:41,132
jerks like me to to,

636
00:23:42,011 --> 00:23:43,130
I guess if people are coming to you,

637
00:23:43,369 --> 00:23:45,047
they want stuff. But Yeah. No. I don't

638
00:23:45,047 --> 00:23:47,618
spend... Getting over somebody you doesn't want. Doesn't

639
00:23:47,618 --> 00:23:49,526
wanna my clients new. Not that's a waste

640
00:23:49,526 --> 00:23:51,751
of my breath. And in fact, I, I

641
00:23:51,751 --> 00:23:53,421
do very little coaching now because I I

642
00:23:53,421 --> 00:23:55,567
wanted to climb. I'm I'm kinda 60 something.

643
00:23:55,806 --> 00:23:57,414
I only got so many client tickets left.

644
00:23:57,653 --> 00:23:59,171
I only got so many tickets in a,

645
00:23:59,331 --> 00:23:59,810
in a week.

646
00:24:00,450 --> 00:24:03,086
So I'll usually to coach people if I

647
00:24:03,166 --> 00:24:05,099
I get... I do a workshop. Don't do

648
00:24:05,099 --> 00:24:06,936
those at off. And or if somebody reaches

649
00:24:06,936 --> 00:24:10,052
out, some sometimes like, I had this mother

650
00:24:10,052 --> 00:24:11,730
of a 10 year old competition climber.

651
00:24:12,304 --> 00:24:13,498
Reach out to me and say, hey, you

652
00:24:13,498 --> 00:24:15,808
know, my my son gets really nervous and

653
00:24:15,808 --> 00:24:17,162
distracted. Can you help? And I was like,

654
00:24:17,322 --> 00:24:19,074
okay. So III

655
00:24:19,074 --> 00:24:20,906
help them. I don't I don't waste time.

656
00:24:21,637 --> 00:24:23,705
Trying to convince anybody to do anything. I

657
00:24:23,864 --> 00:24:24,443
I want

658
00:24:25,056 --> 00:24:26,351
I want people coming

659
00:24:26,726 --> 00:24:28,316
with a open mind that I'll try this.

660
00:24:28,475 --> 00:24:30,065
You know, And and in my workshops, I...

661
00:24:30,383 --> 00:24:31,514
I'm like, Listen.

662
00:24:32,713 --> 00:24:35,190
The these are things I... That you can

663
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:37,587
try. You know, I'm gonna... In in the

664
00:24:37,587 --> 00:24:39,105
3 or 4 hours, I usually give a

665
00:24:39,105 --> 00:24:41,273
lot of things. Right? It's way more. And

666
00:24:41,352 --> 00:24:42,705
I say, if you just take 1 thing.

667
00:24:42,944 --> 00:24:44,695
Just 1 thing that makes sense for you.

668
00:24:45,173 --> 00:24:46,924
And everything else throw away, Like, you can

669
00:24:46,924 --> 00:24:48,277
throw it all the way, but just be

670
00:24:48,277 --> 00:24:49,391
open and and try it.

671
00:24:50,123 --> 00:24:51,476
And that's those are the people I want

672
00:24:51,476 --> 00:24:52,591
in my workshops. And they're are the ones

673
00:24:52,591 --> 00:24:54,342
who see to benefit. Do you still do

674
00:24:54,342 --> 00:24:56,014
workshops then? Yeah. Once in a while. Okay.

675
00:24:56,173 --> 00:24:57,766
Just not just not straight up coaching.

676
00:24:58,259 --> 00:25:00,736
Yeah. And coaching, I just don't... It's it's

677
00:25:00,736 --> 00:25:02,654
very, very time consuming, and,

678
00:25:03,134 --> 00:25:04,652
I just... I I feel back because I,

679
00:25:04,732 --> 00:25:06,010
you know, it may sound weird, but I

680
00:25:06,010 --> 00:25:08,183
just I... My time is too valuable.

681
00:25:08,742 --> 00:25:10,340
Sure. You know? I I don't I I

682
00:25:10,340 --> 00:25:12,897
can't... Don't I feel bad charging people that

683
00:25:12,897 --> 00:25:14,895
much money because it's just... It's... I don't

684
00:25:14,895 --> 00:25:17,066
know. So I do your heart's not in

685
00:25:17,066 --> 00:25:18,981
it. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I do

686
00:25:18,981 --> 00:25:21,137
workshops. I really enjoy that. I do I

687
00:25:21,137 --> 00:25:23,292
did a talk yesterday. I love I love

688
00:25:23,292 --> 00:25:25,703
teaching people things. Mh. Coaching, I do on

689
00:25:25,703 --> 00:25:27,621
a very, very select basis. I have people

690
00:25:27,621 --> 00:25:29,560
reach out to me probably every month. And

691
00:25:29,619 --> 00:25:31,137
and I asked him a few questions. I

692
00:25:31,137 --> 00:25:33,395
asked them how committed they are. I ask

693
00:25:33,629 --> 00:25:34,899
you know, been a little bit about their

694
00:25:34,899 --> 00:25:37,122
background and pretty quickly, we decide whether it's

695
00:25:37,122 --> 00:25:39,027
a good fit or not. It's it's... And

696
00:25:39,027 --> 00:25:40,932
it's it's usually it's usually not.

697
00:25:44,854 --> 00:25:46,449
Well, you know, I've been thinking about this

698
00:25:46,449 --> 00:25:48,363
thing, and this may be a total tangible.

699
00:25:49,001 --> 00:25:50,916
You know, I don't know what your insights

700
00:25:50,916 --> 00:25:53,238
are. And, I think it was actually Hazel

701
00:25:53,238 --> 00:25:53,738
that

702
00:25:54,829 --> 00:25:56,579
I had someone on that was talking about

703
00:25:56,579 --> 00:25:56,738
this,

704
00:25:57,533 --> 00:25:59,863
this idea of, like, a lot of climber

705
00:26:00,572 --> 00:26:02,884
don't seem to actually enjoy climbing or or,

706
00:26:03,043 --> 00:26:05,036
like, think climbing is all that fun. You

707
00:26:05,036 --> 00:26:06,869
know, every time they they sort of arrive

708
00:26:06,869 --> 00:26:09,356
at the Craig. It's it's this crucible on

709
00:26:09,356 --> 00:26:11,750
which they're gonna test themselves, and I'm not

710
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:13,984
even talking about project I'm just talking about

711
00:26:13,984 --> 00:26:15,660
for a lot of people like, going climbing.

712
00:26:16,074 --> 00:26:17,926
Is filled with kind of

713
00:26:19,098 --> 00:26:22,122
you know, hurdles, all sorts of hurdles. And

714
00:26:22,122 --> 00:26:24,765
whatever attraction they have to it Isn't about

715
00:26:24,765 --> 00:26:26,438
going out and having fun, but about going

716
00:26:26,438 --> 00:26:28,270
out and sort of, like, what is my

717
00:26:28,270 --> 00:26:30,580
day gonna, like, challenge me with. And I

718
00:26:30,580 --> 00:26:32,105
just find it really interesting. I I was

719
00:26:32,105 --> 00:26:33,852
just recently talking to someone about it How,

720
00:26:33,932 --> 00:26:35,861
like, I noticed that a crowded cliff

721
00:26:36,315 --> 00:26:38,062
that, like, a lot of people really just

722
00:26:38,062 --> 00:26:40,858
weren't that into the climbing. Like, it's they

723
00:26:40,858 --> 00:26:43,009
were into there being a climber and stuff,

724
00:26:43,248 --> 00:26:43,566
but

725
00:26:44,204 --> 00:26:45,717
are not very many people are like, whipping

726
00:26:45,717 --> 00:26:47,071
it up and having a good time. Like,

727
00:26:47,469 --> 00:26:49,722
where does, like, this idea of

728
00:26:50,112 --> 00:26:52,417
moving away from this kind of, you know,

729
00:26:53,133 --> 00:26:55,914
always testing yourself, always pushing yourself, always trying

730
00:26:55,914 --> 00:26:58,220
to overcome these things to just having fun,

731
00:26:59,188 --> 00:27:01,650
and remembering that it's like a fun activity

732
00:27:01,650 --> 00:27:03,555
that you don't have to do. You don't...

733
00:27:03,873 --> 00:27:05,461
No 1 is forcing you to go out

734
00:27:05,461 --> 00:27:07,605
there and get scared and and feel like

735
00:27:07,605 --> 00:27:09,930
a failure. Awesome Like, where is this trying

736
00:27:09,930 --> 00:27:12,322
to preach like, have a good time. Yeah.

737
00:27:12,561 --> 00:27:14,475
Does that fit into sort of your coaching?

738
00:27:14,635 --> 00:27:16,171
The space finding is a meetings

739
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:17,346
activity. Right.

740
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:20,093
I mean, it's kinda very selfish and very

741
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:22,702
kind of meaningless. Right? It's really... If you're

742
00:27:22,702 --> 00:27:24,376
not if you're not doing it for fun,

743
00:27:24,535 --> 00:27:27,019
you're kinda not only this... The ball you

744
00:27:27,019 --> 00:27:29,243
missed the whole game. The subtitle of vertical

745
00:27:29,243 --> 00:27:31,865
mind is psychological approaches for optimal rock climbing.

746
00:27:32,421 --> 00:27:35,774
Mh. Not difficult rock climbing. Optimal rock climbing.

747
00:27:36,013 --> 00:27:38,162
We actually talk a lot about fun and

748
00:27:38,162 --> 00:27:40,072
what's the psychology of fun and how to

749
00:27:40,072 --> 00:27:42,300
create more joy and fun in your climbing,

750
00:27:42,872 --> 00:27:45,738
And when you can reduce the anxiety, you

751
00:27:45,738 --> 00:27:47,808
tend to have more fun, like that pre

752
00:27:47,808 --> 00:27:50,276
ritual is about really managing that anxiety.

753
00:27:50,769 --> 00:27:52,286
You know, so when you start the climb,

754
00:27:52,445 --> 00:27:54,680
you're actually in a much better much better

755
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,873
state. So I think it's extremely important. And

756
00:27:57,953 --> 00:27:58,272
I think,

757
00:27:59,644 --> 00:28:01,156
and maybe this is why we're... I've she's

758
00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:02,908
seen so much energy around vertical mine the

759
00:28:02,908 --> 00:28:04,579
past couple of years. And that's kinda why

760
00:28:04,738 --> 00:28:06,671
I'm doing this again. Right? I I kinda

761
00:28:06,888 --> 00:28:08,660
bunch of stop. When a book first came

762
00:28:08,660 --> 00:28:10,099
out, and then I kinda went to sleep

763
00:28:10,099 --> 00:28:11,700
on it, and I retired for my job,

764
00:28:11,779 --> 00:28:12,980
and then I'd been trying to figure out

765
00:28:12,980 --> 00:28:14,819
what what I wanna do with by time

766
00:28:14,819 --> 00:28:16,500
besides climb and eat and sleep and how

767
00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:18,510
fun my wife. That's it. So I think

768
00:28:18,510 --> 00:28:19,467
that's enough actually.

769
00:28:21,858 --> 00:28:23,532
So you've added 1 more thing, but anyway.

770
00:28:24,249 --> 00:28:25,206
It's it's...

771
00:28:26,018 --> 00:28:27,613
There's a lot of energy around it, and

772
00:28:27,772 --> 00:28:28,968
I think there's a whole...

773
00:28:29,685 --> 00:28:31,200
You know, what this space? When we started

774
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,592
climbing, you got declining because you knew a

775
00:28:33,592 --> 00:28:33,911
climber.

776
00:28:34,961 --> 00:28:37,031
Or you were involved in the outdoors and

777
00:28:37,031 --> 00:28:39,180
you saw climbing as something that seems sensible.

778
00:28:39,339 --> 00:28:41,885
Right? Mh. And so that was pretty narrowing,

779
00:28:42,379 --> 00:28:45,495
the personalities of people who started climbing 10:20,

780
00:28:45,655 --> 00:28:47,433
30 years ago was a very

781
00:28:47,812 --> 00:28:49,330
narrow type of person.

782
00:28:50,064 --> 00:28:52,459
And now with a thousand people a day

783
00:28:52,459 --> 00:28:54,934
being introduced to climbing gyms in the Us

784
00:28:54,934 --> 00:28:57,409
alone, there's a whole group of new people

785
00:28:57,409 --> 00:28:59,325
with Right. Whole different backgrounds.

786
00:28:59,898 --> 00:29:02,208
And many of them, they don't enter it

787
00:29:02,208 --> 00:29:03,960
wanting to climb hard at all. Like, they

788
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,111
use it for exercises, they do it because,

789
00:29:06,270 --> 00:29:08,262
you know, they didn't like their old gym

790
00:29:08,262 --> 00:29:10,346
or they got tired of pilates or they

791
00:29:10,346 --> 00:29:11,539
were and a friend brought. Them and they

792
00:29:11,539 --> 00:29:13,289
were like, wow, It's really cool. So I

793
00:29:13,289 --> 00:29:15,437
think I think there's a lot more people

794
00:29:15,437 --> 00:29:17,444
who they just do it for fun and

795
00:29:17,444 --> 00:29:18,799
they wanna know how do I do it

796
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:20,155
for fun yet,

797
00:29:21,431 --> 00:29:23,424
manage these things that come with it, which

798
00:29:23,424 --> 00:29:25,825
is fear of falling. Right, which is fear

799
00:29:25,825 --> 00:29:27,807
of failure, which is these automatic things that

800
00:29:27,807 --> 00:29:29,710
at some point they encounter in their journey.

801
00:29:30,027 --> 00:29:31,851
Yeah. Well, to me that it's a real

802
00:29:31,851 --> 00:29:32,327
paradox.

803
00:29:32,819 --> 00:29:35,452
That I've I've I've come to accept. And

804
00:29:35,452 --> 00:29:38,084
actually, maybe the podcast has been a desire

805
00:29:38,084 --> 00:29:40,094
to sort of sort this out, but you

806
00:29:40,094 --> 00:29:42,012
know, I I can go there. I can

807
00:29:42,012 --> 00:29:42,891
sit in front of you and be, like,

808
00:29:43,050 --> 00:29:45,288
people should be having fun climbing, but I

809
00:29:45,288 --> 00:29:47,819
know my own experience with it is that

810
00:29:48,098 --> 00:29:49,693
if it was just dumb fun,

811
00:29:50,252 --> 00:29:52,086
I wouldn't be interested in it. And it,

812
00:29:52,165 --> 00:29:53,999
you know, it you can go and bungee

813
00:29:53,999 --> 00:29:56,312
jump. Right? That's like a classic like dumb

814
00:29:56,312 --> 00:29:56,631
fun.

815
00:29:57,443 --> 00:29:59,117
Thing where you can get a little thrill

816
00:29:59,117 --> 00:30:01,930
and and walk away, like, laughing. But,

817
00:30:02,307 --> 00:30:05,496
like, the... To me, at least the the

818
00:30:05,496 --> 00:30:08,230
the the challenge and the knock downs, if

819
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:10,309
you will. And the times when I do

820
00:30:10,309 --> 00:30:12,789
actually get pushed beyond my comfort zone,

821
00:30:13,444 --> 00:30:15,922
and maybe also get pushed to where I

822
00:30:15,922 --> 00:30:18,160
do feel like something of a failure that

823
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,137
day. Like, those things are also this really

824
00:30:21,276 --> 00:30:23,930
important ingredient to climbing climbing would not be

825
00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:26,490
interesting to me if we're just that goof

826
00:30:26,490 --> 00:30:28,490
around out there all the time. Well, there's.

827
00:30:28,650 --> 00:30:31,049
So it's it's like this weird balance or

828
00:30:31,049 --> 00:30:33,218
this weird mick and and so I can't

829
00:30:33,218 --> 00:30:35,764
always tell people like, you know, you you

830
00:30:35,764 --> 00:30:37,196
should just have fun because,

831
00:30:37,833 --> 00:30:39,186
I mean, and and then we get into

832
00:30:39,186 --> 00:30:40,618
if we wanna get into sort of big

833
00:30:40,618 --> 00:30:41,016
climbing.

834
00:30:41,508 --> 00:30:44,236
You know, the suffering is certainly an ingredient

835
00:30:44,292 --> 00:30:46,758
that is an important part of it to

836
00:30:46,758 --> 00:30:49,078
any a, you know? So Anyway, I'll let

837
00:30:49,078 --> 00:30:50,665
you comment on that, but it it's it's

838
00:30:50,665 --> 00:30:52,888
this heavy mix and and without the heavy

839
00:30:52,888 --> 00:30:53,046
mix,

840
00:30:53,919 --> 00:30:55,665
it wouldn't be what it is. Well, 2

841
00:30:55,665 --> 00:30:57,589
things come to mind in... From what you

842
00:30:57,589 --> 00:30:59,347
said. 1 is and and we actually talk

843
00:30:59,347 --> 00:31:00,705
a lot about this in vertical mind we

844
00:31:00,705 --> 00:31:01,445
talk about

845
00:31:01,984 --> 00:31:04,382
motivation. And, you know, there's a flavor of

846
00:31:04,382 --> 00:31:04,882
happiness

847
00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:06,080
that comes

848
00:31:06,552 --> 00:31:08,775
we call probably more like fulfillment is a

849
00:31:08,775 --> 00:31:11,181
probably maybe a better word. Right? And that's

850
00:31:11,316 --> 00:31:13,857
driven by... We all love to master something.

851
00:31:15,064 --> 00:31:16,812
We all love to move along as our

852
00:31:16,812 --> 00:31:19,037
human brains are this way. We'd love to

853
00:31:19,037 --> 00:31:22,294
see ourselves progress on something. It's mastery motivation

854
00:31:22,294 --> 00:31:24,297
drives a lot of them like, we we

855
00:31:24,297 --> 00:31:26,683
love feeling what it's like to be able

856
00:31:26,683 --> 00:31:29,229
to type something we couldn't hike before. Be

857
00:31:29,229 --> 00:31:31,317
able to... It's you know, play an instrument

858
00:31:31,317 --> 00:31:32,594
that we've never been, and we haven't been

859
00:31:32,594 --> 00:31:34,110
able to play, you know, practice for a

860
00:31:34,110 --> 00:31:36,425
long time and then eventually perform a concerts.

861
00:31:36,585 --> 00:31:38,580
So there's parts of our brain,

862
00:31:39,074 --> 00:31:41,704
that just love that. And so I still

863
00:31:41,704 --> 00:31:42,501
label that fun.

864
00:31:43,457 --> 00:31:45,768
It's right. It's kinda fulfillment. Right? Right.

865
00:31:47,378 --> 00:31:49,775
So, like, I went out yesterday, my often

866
00:31:49,775 --> 00:31:50,974
and I went to off road. We just

867
00:31:50,974 --> 00:31:52,172
wanted to get out because the weather's is

868
00:31:52,172 --> 00:31:53,530
gonna be crappy in the next 2 weeks.

869
00:31:54,342 --> 00:31:56,172
We went there and we tried to get

870
00:31:56,172 --> 00:31:57,445
away from the crowds, and we did a

871
00:31:57,445 --> 00:31:58,956
bunch of stuff we had done before. And

872
00:31:58,956 --> 00:32:00,308
we didn't do anything difficult.

873
00:32:01,199 --> 00:32:03,752
But I love getting on these climbs just

874
00:32:03,752 --> 00:32:05,508
walking up to them never been on them

875
00:32:05,508 --> 00:32:07,902
and just do them, just feeling great.

876
00:32:08,874 --> 00:32:11,685
And it wasn't... It was it was mastery

877
00:32:11,982 --> 00:32:13,576
motivation. Like, just the fact that I could

878
00:32:13,576 --> 00:32:15,249
walk up to this thing and just feel

879
00:32:15,249 --> 00:32:16,857
great on outside it and just you know,

880
00:32:16,937 --> 00:32:18,448
it challenge me a little bit enough to

881
00:32:18,448 --> 00:32:20,697
make it interesting and to feel that mastering

882
00:32:20,913 --> 00:32:23,378
motivation. But, yeah. That... So there's there's a

883
00:32:23,378 --> 00:32:24,174
certain flavor,

884
00:32:25,142 --> 00:32:28,073
of fun that is in that mastery motivation

885
00:32:28,232 --> 00:32:30,529
That makes sense? Totally. I mean, you know,

886
00:32:30,609 --> 00:32:32,868
this proliferation of... What's

887
00:32:33,325 --> 00:32:34,679
become a meme and a and a meme

888
00:32:34,679 --> 00:32:36,353
in the sort of old school sense, not

889
00:32:36,353 --> 00:32:38,663
just a a picture on Instagram, but the

890
00:32:38,663 --> 00:32:41,795
meme of the type 123 fun thing. Like,

891
00:32:41,875 --> 00:32:43,475
you know, that seems like it's always been

892
00:32:43,475 --> 00:32:45,394
here, but I think that, like, started to

893
00:32:45,394 --> 00:32:47,634
appear about 10 years ago. This this way

894
00:32:47,634 --> 00:32:49,959
of signify. You know, I was type 2

895
00:32:49,959 --> 00:32:52,426
fun or whatever. And I think it's funny

896
00:32:52,426 --> 00:32:54,017
because it's this kinda of joke and it's

897
00:32:54,017 --> 00:32:56,740
this meme that's gone through not just climbing,

898
00:32:56,820 --> 00:32:59,133
but all all types of, I think, outdoor

899
00:32:59,133 --> 00:32:59,531
activities.

900
00:33:00,090 --> 00:33:02,322
But it's also, like, embedded in it, maybe

901
00:33:02,322 --> 00:33:03,758
this is why it caught on so much

902
00:33:03,758 --> 00:33:06,558
is this like what you're talking about. So

903
00:33:06,558 --> 00:33:09,896
it's it's kinda fascinating that, like, this little

904
00:33:09,896 --> 00:33:11,247
thing that we toss off, I always was

905
00:33:11,247 --> 00:33:13,089
type 2 fun or whatever, is actually, like,

906
00:33:13,248 --> 00:33:15,018
you know, you could probably do a psychology

907
00:33:15,074 --> 00:33:16,129
thesis on it

908
00:33:16,582 --> 00:33:18,407
if if you wanted to because it's all

909
00:33:18,407 --> 00:33:20,074
in there. What we're talking about, You know?

910
00:33:20,312 --> 00:33:23,429
I really think... The more emotional something is,

911
00:33:24,624 --> 00:33:27,012
the easier it is to to connect with

912
00:33:27,012 --> 00:33:27,570
that memory.

913
00:33:28,127 --> 00:33:30,613
Okay? So think about, like, the times of

914
00:33:30,613 --> 00:33:32,768
great successes or the times of most misery.

915
00:33:33,326 --> 00:33:34,125
You'll remember,

916
00:33:35,162 --> 00:33:36,360
you'll remember that. Right? It'll I'll bring you

917
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,355
back, you almost have the smells of it,

918
00:33:38,769 --> 00:33:40,835
You can... It's almost spooky. Right? You almost

919
00:33:40,835 --> 00:33:43,060
feel whatever the feeling was at that time.

920
00:33:43,696 --> 00:33:46,080
So the more emotional something is, the more

921
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,240
that memory is easier to... Call and the

922
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,780
more physically you feel that memory. Mh. And

923
00:33:50,780 --> 00:33:53,162
so there's some psychology around that. So in

924
00:33:53,162 --> 00:33:54,988
this type 2 fun situation, like, I was

925
00:33:54,988 --> 00:33:56,497
just out in Red rock, fine with an

926
00:33:56,497 --> 00:33:58,656
old call mentor mine, and we were up

927
00:33:58,656 --> 00:34:00,006
in the room, and we were getting... We

928
00:34:00,006 --> 00:34:01,674
were in the shade, and it was only

929
00:34:01,674 --> 00:34:04,057
like, 50 something degrees, and it was 40

930
00:34:04,057 --> 00:34:06,414
mile hour gust, and we were getting

931
00:34:06,772 --> 00:34:08,680
splash it up there. I bet I was

932
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,668
2 canyon over from you that same day

933
00:34:10,668 --> 00:34:12,973
it. Anyway, keep going? Yeah. It was it

934
00:34:12,973 --> 00:34:15,858
was really really brutal like... Yeah. And

935
00:34:16,167 --> 00:34:18,943
So... But I will remember that. Like, I

936
00:34:18,943 --> 00:34:20,847
will remember that. I go, I could almost

937
00:34:20,847 --> 00:34:22,909
picture the ballet. Like, I could picture being

938
00:34:22,909 --> 00:34:25,387
there. I could. I... Not exactly what sling

939
00:34:25,467 --> 00:34:26,580
I was using, but it's clubs.

940
00:34:27,296 --> 00:34:29,285
So I think that's 1 of the reasons

941
00:34:29,285 --> 00:34:30,557
we like this type too fun.

942
00:34:31,369 --> 00:34:33,224
Is it creates

943
00:34:33,762 --> 00:34:37,351
unbelievably vivid memories. And and think about the

944
00:34:37,351 --> 00:34:39,505
stories you tell. Right? I still tell stories

945
00:34:39,505 --> 00:34:40,882
of type too fun from

946
00:34:41,273 --> 00:34:43,184
20 years ago, and and they're... And I

947
00:34:43,184 --> 00:34:45,253
can get right back there. And so that...

948
00:34:45,412 --> 00:34:46,685
That's 1 of the reasons I think we

949
00:34:46,685 --> 00:34:48,697
like it is it just brings back those

950
00:34:49,009 --> 00:34:51,004
It brings us back there so vividly. Alright.

951
00:34:51,163 --> 00:34:52,440
Well, let me throw this 1 at. Yeah.

952
00:34:52,759 --> 00:34:54,434
We're we're a little bit away from the

953
00:34:54,434 --> 00:34:57,319
vertical mind, but but just here... Your expertise

954
00:34:57,319 --> 00:34:59,627
in this stuff, and and and your your

955
00:34:59,627 --> 00:35:02,572
writing partner, Jeff's expertise. So this idea of,

956
00:35:02,731 --> 00:35:05,118
like, a your reflective group, I think a

957
00:35:05,118 --> 00:35:05,436
very...

958
00:35:06,089 --> 00:35:08,403
Difficult thing to get past and climbing is

959
00:35:08,403 --> 00:35:08,802
comparison.

960
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,435
And, you know, what your group is doing

961
00:35:11,435 --> 00:35:14,001
versus what you're doing, what the greater climbing

962
00:35:14,001 --> 00:35:15,749
world is doing versus who you are as

963
00:35:15,749 --> 00:35:17,577
a climber. You know, we're talking about how

964
00:35:17,577 --> 00:35:19,166
we met and rifle and rifles, you know,

965
00:35:19,325 --> 00:35:21,646
this important place for us as as our

966
00:35:21,646 --> 00:35:23,958
progression as climber, but it's very difficult place

967
00:35:23,958 --> 00:35:26,508
to to walk into as a as a

968
00:35:26,508 --> 00:35:28,500
newer or a or a, you know,

969
00:35:29,231 --> 00:35:31,690
climber that's climbing 05:10? I mean, literally, it's

970
00:35:31,690 --> 00:35:34,333
not great for that. But, you know, so

971
00:35:34,388 --> 00:35:35,840
what what are you kind of

972
00:35:36,229 --> 00:35:37,348
do and sort of, like,

973
00:35:38,626 --> 00:35:40,943
preach as far as as that world is

974
00:35:40,943 --> 00:35:42,860
concerned because it's really difficult to get around,

975
00:35:43,273 --> 00:35:43,670
you know,

976
00:35:44,306 --> 00:35:46,713
knowing... I mean, you go in and and

977
00:35:46,768 --> 00:35:49,628
when you go to climb 05:11 in a

978
00:35:49,628 --> 00:35:51,217
place that's a sport climbing area,

979
00:35:51,869 --> 00:35:54,030
not just rifle, but all over, you know,

980
00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:56,269
there is this idea that you're on the

981
00:35:56,269 --> 00:35:58,750
warm up, you know, and there's people standing

982
00:35:58,750 --> 00:36:00,683
in line waiting for you to get done

983
00:36:00,683 --> 00:36:01,661
so they can work

984
00:36:02,438 --> 00:36:04,751
Hang on. I know. And it may not

985
00:36:04,751 --> 00:36:05,947
be a warm up for you, and that's

986
00:36:05,947 --> 00:36:07,143
my whole point. Not. And I... You know,

987
00:36:07,223 --> 00:36:08,739
you and I have watched this happen at

988
00:36:08,739 --> 00:36:11,460
the meats. Right? The the the infamous, like,

989
00:36:11,619 --> 00:36:14,242
05:11 warm ups and and rifle. Where someone

990
00:36:14,242 --> 00:36:16,546
is up there prop, like, working on it,

991
00:36:16,784 --> 00:36:20,147
and everybody's... Gru or may maybe not literally,

992
00:36:20,306 --> 00:36:21,981
but the person up there thinks they hear

993
00:36:21,981 --> 00:36:23,816
them gru. That's the difference.

994
00:36:24,374 --> 00:36:26,368
Appearance so that. Well, So anyway, where do

995
00:36:26,368 --> 00:36:28,219
you go with, like, your it's actually the

996
00:36:28,219 --> 00:36:29,896
reference group. That's that's what... That's the word

997
00:36:29,976 --> 00:36:32,692
I was looking for. This idea of comparing

998
00:36:32,692 --> 00:36:34,290
yourself and and being in the mix.

999
00:36:35,740 --> 00:36:37,333
Because it's definitely a brute brutal part of

1000
00:36:37,333 --> 00:36:39,405
our sport. So here's the thing is we

1001
00:36:39,405 --> 00:36:41,475
are we are human animals, and there's part

1002
00:36:41,475 --> 00:36:42,431
of our brain also.

1003
00:36:43,068 --> 00:36:43,807
The reason

1004
00:36:44,278 --> 00:36:46,187
The reason we're still here is we are

1005
00:36:46,187 --> 00:36:48,733
social creatures and we live for hundreds or

1006
00:36:48,733 --> 00:36:50,721
maybe thousands of years we lived in tribes.

1007
00:36:51,452 --> 00:36:53,304
Right? We lived in social

1008
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:55,668
situations where if we got expelled from the

1009
00:36:55,668 --> 00:36:56,861
tribe, what would happen to us?

1010
00:36:57,816 --> 00:36:59,271
And you'd be dead. You that

1011
00:36:59,979 --> 00:37:01,654
The saber tooth would munch you if like

1012
00:37:02,053 --> 00:37:03,329
Dude there's some other tribe would come and

1013
00:37:03,329 --> 00:37:04,685
take your stuff and kill an. I don't

1014
00:37:04,685 --> 00:37:07,716
know. But... Yeah. If... You know, so it's,

1015
00:37:07,796 --> 00:37:09,471
you know, it's part of our Dna.

1016
00:37:10,203 --> 00:37:12,673
To wanna be accepted. You know, they... In

1017
00:37:12,673 --> 00:37:14,983
psychology pop technologies. Oh, we all wanna be

1018
00:37:14,983 --> 00:37:16,577
accepted. Well, that's true. We all do wanna

1019
00:37:16,577 --> 00:37:18,807
be accepted, and it's it's wired. Right?

1020
00:37:19,858 --> 00:37:20,358
So

1021
00:37:20,972 --> 00:37:23,121
you can't feel bad about that. It we're

1022
00:37:23,121 --> 00:37:25,032
wired that way. The reality is,

1023
00:37:26,306 --> 00:37:26,942
nobody cares.

1024
00:37:27,674 --> 00:37:30,705
I mean, in inc context, nobody really cares.

1025
00:37:31,343 --> 00:37:33,257
And I I was gonna to talk up

1026
00:37:33,257 --> 00:37:34,076
at the B,

1027
00:37:34,534 --> 00:37:35,809
maybe it was a year ago or so

1028
00:37:35,809 --> 00:37:37,426
and I asked, you know, about

1029
00:37:38,056 --> 00:37:39,805
scripts and, you know, some things that are

1030
00:37:39,805 --> 00:37:41,315
holding people back. And 1 guy was like,

1031
00:37:41,394 --> 00:37:43,541
he climbed in rifle. He just started climbing

1032
00:37:43,541 --> 00:37:45,782
there and he he was training and He...

1033
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:47,451
He wanted to get him pup rama, he's

1034
00:37:47,451 --> 00:37:49,517
like, man, I get there, and I'd see,

1035
00:37:49,597 --> 00:37:51,345
you know, there'd be a line and I

1036
00:37:51,345 --> 00:37:53,747
see people doing it, Like, like, it's a

1037
00:37:53,747 --> 00:37:55,820
warm up and monkey hanging like all this

1038
00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:58,211
stuff. Right? So... And he said, I just

1039
00:37:58,211 --> 00:37:59,646
don't want people to think more of me.

1040
00:37:59,806 --> 00:38:01,812
I to think less me. Right? And and

1041
00:38:01,971 --> 00:38:03,082
I I had to give him the tough

1042
00:38:03,082 --> 00:38:04,351
love. I was like, you know,

1043
00:38:05,145 --> 00:38:05,859
nobody nobody cares.

1044
00:38:06,494 --> 00:38:08,795
And nobody cares. No. They don't. The lat.

1045
00:38:09,048 --> 00:38:11,190
Say, when they're at home having their favorite

1046
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:12,777
beverage, whether it be a t or whether

1047
00:38:12,777 --> 00:38:13,888
it be an adult beverage.

1048
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,922
They can me think about you? No. No.

1049
00:38:17,161 --> 00:38:18,836
They're they're... We only live in our own

1050
00:38:18,836 --> 00:38:21,228
bubbles. Right? The only thing is they might

1051
00:38:21,228 --> 00:38:23,222
think, you know, they might watch you struggle

1052
00:38:23,222 --> 00:38:24,737
on something like oh, I remember when I

1053
00:38:24,737 --> 00:38:26,899
first struggled on that. Most likely they'd be

1054
00:38:26,899 --> 00:38:28,589
saying, hey, dude. Awesome.

1055
00:38:29,517 --> 00:38:32,532
Way to work. Right? That's what people really

1056
00:38:32,532 --> 00:38:33,881
are saying more likely.

1057
00:38:34,769 --> 00:38:36,277
Once in a while, you might get a

1058
00:38:36,277 --> 00:38:38,499
snarky person who's like, oh, god. I get

1059
00:38:38,499 --> 00:38:40,165
off that thing. I'm gonna lose my warm

1060
00:38:40,165 --> 00:38:42,229
up. But they're again, they're thinking about them.

1061
00:38:42,879 --> 00:38:44,392
Right. It's not directed to you.

1062
00:38:45,188 --> 00:38:47,816
Right. It's really directed at them. So people

1063
00:38:47,816 --> 00:38:49,966
really don't care. And I think just coming

1064
00:38:49,966 --> 00:38:51,001
to a recollection.

1065
00:38:51,893 --> 00:38:53,964
That, you know, we all live in our

1066
00:38:53,964 --> 00:38:55,159
own bubbles, you may think.

1067
00:38:55,955 --> 00:38:57,708
Here's thing. If if you are having a...

1068
00:38:58,027 --> 00:38:59,859
If you're thinking that you know what someone

1069
00:38:59,859 --> 00:39:00,576
else is thinking,

1070
00:39:01,069 --> 00:39:03,143
you are 100 percent wrong. Right. You are

1071
00:39:03,143 --> 00:39:04,818
a hundred percent wrong. There's 0 chance you're

1072
00:39:04,818 --> 00:39:07,072
gonna be right. And so why

1073
00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:10,161
why think that they're thinking something that holds

1074
00:39:10,161 --> 00:39:12,249
you back? Why put that in their mind

1075
00:39:12,249 --> 00:39:13,922
when there's, like, hundred bit of chance. That's

1076
00:39:13,922 --> 00:39:16,472
not there. They're thinking about when are they

1077
00:39:16,472 --> 00:39:18,638
hungry? When are they gonna get rest? You

1078
00:39:18,638 --> 00:39:20,387
know, I hope they get a campsite tonight.

1079
00:39:20,626 --> 00:39:22,137
They're thinking of a million other things,

1080
00:39:22,773 --> 00:39:25,079
not you. No. It's funny because I've had

1081
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:27,644
that conversation and... You the exact 1, like,

1082
00:39:27,964 --> 00:39:29,804
actually with my wife because she sort of

1083
00:39:29,804 --> 00:39:32,364
has... She she she kind of has this

1084
00:39:32,364 --> 00:39:32,864
ambivalent

1085
00:39:33,804 --> 00:39:35,025
attitude to rifle, and

1086
00:39:35,418 --> 00:39:36,315
you know, kinda

1087
00:39:36,928 --> 00:39:38,916
says she feels that. And I'm like, no.

1088
00:39:39,234 --> 00:39:40,665
No 1, like, that's why I'm like no

1089
00:39:40,665 --> 00:39:42,494
1 cares. Like, and and in fact what

1090
00:39:42,574 --> 00:39:44,561
I realized is that maybe that's the problem.

1091
00:39:45,133 --> 00:39:47,843
Is is not necessarily her, but but people

1092
00:39:47,843 --> 00:39:49,596
want us to care, and we don't. Like,

1093
00:39:49,676 --> 00:39:50,792
you know what I mean Like, you said

1094
00:39:50,792 --> 00:39:52,385
the tough love is that, yeah. We, you

1095
00:39:52,385 --> 00:39:54,468
know, whatever you're doing over there on your

1096
00:39:54,468 --> 00:39:54,706
climb.

1097
00:39:55,342 --> 00:39:57,567
We're not watching. We're not caring if we

1098
00:39:57,567 --> 00:39:59,396
glance up there. It's just, you know, it

1099
00:39:59,396 --> 00:40:01,878
was because we're... Bored and we're just looking

1100
00:40:01,878 --> 00:40:04,028
around. You know, Like... And that's kind of

1101
00:40:04,028 --> 00:40:05,462
the funny thing I was like, well, maybe

1102
00:40:05,462 --> 00:40:06,418
that's the problem. They wanna...

1103
00:40:07,533 --> 00:40:08,011
A loser.

1104
00:40:08,648 --> 00:40:10,809
Comparison the loser. No matter... No matter what,

1105
00:40:11,047 --> 00:40:13,350
Like, no matter what you compare money, cars,

1106
00:40:13,509 --> 00:40:16,287
like, blah. Name it. Whatever... Mh. Whatever you

1107
00:40:16,287 --> 00:40:18,193
wanna compare yourself it? There's somebody who's got,

1108
00:40:18,351 --> 00:40:18,431
like,

1109
00:40:19,161 --> 00:40:20,829
way more of it. Whether it be way

1110
00:40:20,829 --> 00:40:22,362
less of it. Right? So

1111
00:40:23,133 --> 00:40:25,436
comparing it's its total losing game. It's it's

1112
00:40:25,436 --> 00:40:28,313
like you never get fulfilled. With comparison. And

1113
00:40:28,313 --> 00:40:29,825
in fact, that could be 1 of the

1114
00:40:29,825 --> 00:40:31,735
reasons this pre climb ritual is so effective.

1115
00:40:32,053 --> 00:40:34,122
Because when you're... 1 of the things is

1116
00:40:34,122 --> 00:40:36,191
like the stop replacement. So when you get

1117
00:40:36,191 --> 00:40:38,041
up which for many people as they start

1118
00:40:38,041 --> 00:40:40,037
putting their shoes on or something. Right? Having

1119
00:40:40,037 --> 00:40:41,554
the stop replacement of 1 move at a

1120
00:40:41,554 --> 00:40:42,831
time when move at a time, when move

1121
00:40:42,831 --> 00:40:44,507
at a time, you're... You can only have

1122
00:40:44,507 --> 00:40:46,754
1 thought in time, So you're pushing out,

1123
00:40:46,834 --> 00:40:48,665
oh, what are people gonna think of me?

1124
00:40:49,222 --> 00:40:51,293
Oh, do I really belong on this route?

1125
00:40:51,770 --> 00:40:53,045
You know, how... Am I gonna make it

1126
00:40:53,045 --> 00:40:54,653
all the way up at? They're trying and

1127
00:40:54,653 --> 00:40:56,250
draws. Who cares? There's chains on the thing.

1128
00:40:56,409 --> 00:40:58,644
Who cares. But so I I think this

1129
00:40:58,644 --> 00:41:00,960
pushes away all those things. And right. Gives

1130
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,115
you a moment an island where you can

1131
00:41:03,115 --> 00:41:05,929
just... Climb. You can just be. Right? And

1132
00:41:05,929 --> 00:41:07,690
so I I think that may be 1

1133
00:41:07,690 --> 00:41:10,010
of the reasons this this technique works pretty

1134
00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:12,259
darn well. Also, and and I like how

1135
00:41:12,259 --> 00:41:14,253
you were talking about how your own training

1136
00:41:14,253 --> 00:41:16,166
in this ebb and flows and you have

1137
00:41:16,166 --> 00:41:17,681
to go back to it and everything else

1138
00:41:17,681 --> 00:41:19,436
because, you know, I'm acting like I am...

1139
00:41:20,010 --> 00:41:22,170
You know, this wise person that knows about

1140
00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:23,849
this and and doesn't do it, but, of

1141
00:41:23,849 --> 00:41:24,890
course, like, there's...

1142
00:41:25,610 --> 00:41:27,610
Like, just the other day, someone was like,

1143
00:41:27,690 --> 00:41:29,625
well, why don't you try this route? And

1144
00:41:29,704 --> 00:41:31,545
I was like. That's like the scene right

1145
00:41:31,545 --> 00:41:33,465
there, And I just don't like climbing in

1146
00:41:33,465 --> 00:41:35,804
that zone where it's like the total

1147
00:41:36,264 --> 00:41:38,271
scene where... You know, and we can think...

1148
00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:40,362
I... We don't need to keep referencing

1149
00:41:40,736 --> 00:41:43,678
specific things to rifle because it happens on

1150
00:41:43,678 --> 00:41:44,791
any sport climbing area,

1151
00:41:45,284 --> 00:41:47,273
there's a... Or, you know, or any area.

1152
00:41:47,512 --> 00:41:49,978
Really, there's, like, these places where everybody's banging

1153
00:41:49,978 --> 00:41:51,490
it out, and it's like a big group

1154
00:41:51,490 --> 00:41:54,116
and I tend to avoid those places.

1155
00:41:54,529 --> 00:41:55,881
But it seems like if I had, like,

1156
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,097
a very solid,

1157
00:41:57,869 --> 00:41:59,779
you know, ability of what you're talking about,

1158
00:42:00,017 --> 00:42:02,578
I could walk into those. Those places and

1159
00:42:02,578 --> 00:42:05,045
and maybe become an island and and climb

1160
00:42:05,045 --> 00:42:06,795
where all the banter going on and all

1161
00:42:06,795 --> 00:42:08,409
the blah blah blah, all the

1162
00:42:08,798 --> 00:42:10,228
Do you know what I mean? Like, maybe

1163
00:42:10,387 --> 00:42:12,215
I could become this person if I if

1164
00:42:12,294 --> 00:42:14,280
I was a better had a better pre

1165
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,448
climb ritual, but it's hard. You could guarantee

1166
00:42:16,663 --> 00:42:18,583
be awesome. Be true to what you wanna

1167
00:42:18,583 --> 00:42:20,964
do. Right. And be really clear. It's like,

1168
00:42:21,282 --> 00:42:23,265
I was just... I was just editing an

1169
00:42:23,265 --> 00:42:24,773
interview I had with Mark on for the

1170
00:42:24,773 --> 00:42:28,280
podcast, and 1 of his ism is if

1171
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:29,470
it ain't fun and ain't done.

1172
00:42:30,264 --> 00:42:32,485
And you just gotta... Do I wanna do

1173
00:42:32,485 --> 00:42:34,882
that? Like, truthfully. And do do I just

1174
00:42:34,882 --> 00:42:36,891
wanna be around that many people. And that's

1175
00:42:37,662 --> 00:42:40,442
outside of your your own worrying about what

1176
00:42:40,442 --> 00:42:42,367
they're gonna think? There could just be a

1177
00:42:42,367 --> 00:42:44,200
proximity. Like, I just don't like the noise

1178
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,795
and don't like the chatter. There's other places

1179
00:42:45,795 --> 00:42:48,107
to go. So Yeah. Now if there a

1180
00:42:48,107 --> 00:42:49,941
root that that you really wanted to do

1181
00:42:49,941 --> 00:42:51,949
and that crowd we're keeping you away.

1182
00:42:52,986 --> 00:42:53,486
That's

1183
00:42:53,863 --> 00:42:56,175
the time when it's like, okay. I probably...

1184
00:42:56,494 --> 00:42:58,168
I really wanna do that, but I'm being

1185
00:42:58,168 --> 00:42:58,726
held back.

1186
00:42:59,459 --> 00:43:01,697
Mh. Buy this this thing that I know

1187
00:43:01,777 --> 00:43:03,135
I can work on. Well, it might be

1188
00:43:03,135 --> 00:43:05,133
worth working on. Oh, let's move on to

1189
00:43:05,852 --> 00:43:07,950
things going on in your life and and

1190
00:43:08,263 --> 00:43:10,724
again, you've you've just mentioned how you you've

1191
00:43:10,724 --> 00:43:13,584
sort of come back to vertical mind and

1192
00:43:13,584 --> 00:43:15,728
opened up the can worms again as it

1193
00:43:15,728 --> 00:43:15,887
were.

1194
00:43:16,539 --> 00:43:18,457
You wrote me something that said that you've

1195
00:43:18,457 --> 00:43:20,635
done a couple days c coaching with Hazel

1196
00:43:21,333 --> 00:43:23,671
and working on an actual kind of pilot

1197
00:43:23,730 --> 00:43:25,343
to I don't know some type of series.

1198
00:43:25,583 --> 00:43:27,101
I don't know where where it's going to

1199
00:43:27,101 --> 00:43:28,699
appear or what it's going be. So...

1200
00:43:29,737 --> 00:43:31,895
And and she's, you know, it's funny because

1201
00:43:31,895 --> 00:43:34,383
she's... She's occupied this space in the last

1202
00:43:34,383 --> 00:43:36,377
couple years and become, you know, 1 of

1203
00:43:36,377 --> 00:43:39,328
these go to coaches on these very issues

1204
00:43:39,328 --> 00:43:41,482
again that that you started bringing up 10

1205
00:43:41,482 --> 00:43:43,411
years ago. So it's a a as a

1206
00:43:43,411 --> 00:43:45,325
meeting of the minds to to kinda use

1207
00:43:45,325 --> 00:43:45,644
a pun.

1208
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,755
So tell me about that, tell tells us

1209
00:43:48,755 --> 00:43:51,467
about this this thing and and your excitement

1210
00:43:51,467 --> 00:43:51,786
around

1211
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,039
whatever's is going on with the the what

1212
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:56,440
you call the Doc series. So over the

1213
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,519
past, I would say 2 or 3 years,

1214
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,599
it's been a little weird. I've been at

1215
00:44:00,599 --> 00:44:02,444
the... Craig, people would come up to me

1216
00:44:02,444 --> 00:44:03,477
and like, oh,

1217
00:44:04,113 --> 00:44:05,703
you know, I had people quote vertical line

1218
00:44:05,703 --> 00:44:07,213
at the Craig. 1 person was like, oh,

1219
00:44:07,372 --> 00:44:09,438
either follow I won't, and I had... I

1220
00:44:09,438 --> 00:44:09,756
was like,

1221
00:44:10,807 --> 00:44:12,483
She says, I learned that for vertical mind.

1222
00:44:12,802 --> 00:44:14,238
And I was like are you kidding me?

1223
00:44:14,477 --> 00:44:16,312
So there's been some energy around it and

1224
00:44:16,312 --> 00:44:17,921
it's kinda, I mean, like wow. This is

1225
00:44:17,921 --> 00:44:19,512
really... You know, there's there's actually a lot

1226
00:44:19,512 --> 00:44:20,786
of them out there now because we got

1227
00:44:20,786 --> 00:44:23,014
the audiobook and the Kindle it's kinda gone

1228
00:44:23,014 --> 00:44:25,735
out there. And, I... Wow I have known

1229
00:44:25,735 --> 00:44:28,602
this guy, Jay Jacob code for about over

1230
00:44:28,602 --> 00:44:30,592
10 years before I even wrote vertical mind,

1231
00:44:30,752 --> 00:44:32,185
and I I knew him when I were

1232
00:44:32,185 --> 00:44:34,114
up my first book, and he was... Into

1233
00:44:34,114 --> 00:44:35,952
websites and stuff. And we've kinda stayed in

1234
00:44:35,952 --> 00:44:38,189
contact. Well, 1 day he calls me up,

1235
00:44:38,669 --> 00:44:40,906
and this was last year and early last

1236
00:44:40,906 --> 00:44:42,758
year and calls me up and says You

1237
00:44:42,758 --> 00:44:44,933
know, Don, I was in a spa

1238
00:44:45,630 --> 00:44:46,746
in crest stone,

1239
00:44:47,623 --> 00:44:49,139
and there was a guy in there who

1240
00:44:49,139 --> 00:44:50,415
was a climber. And he told me he

1241
00:44:50,415 --> 00:44:51,771
and his wife had come to climb.

1242
00:44:52,583 --> 00:44:53,380
Than that area.

1243
00:44:53,937 --> 00:44:55,690
And so I said, hey, I know. He's

1244
00:44:55,690 --> 00:44:57,442
she's said, hey, I know a climber. And

1245
00:44:57,442 --> 00:44:58,557
in fact, he wrote a book vertical a

1246
00:44:58,557 --> 00:44:59,752
mine and the guy goes, I love that

1247
00:44:59,752 --> 00:45:02,233
book. Oh my god. And so Jay phones

1248
00:45:02,233 --> 00:45:04,135
me up and he he's trying to pitch

1249
00:45:04,135 --> 00:45:06,115
me on doing a show because he's become

1250
00:45:06,115 --> 00:45:08,017
a fan of things on outside Tv and

1251
00:45:08,017 --> 00:45:09,699
he's he was off... Repaired, like, trying to

1252
00:45:09,699 --> 00:45:10,972
sell me on doing this thing, And I

1253
00:45:10,972 --> 00:45:12,563
was like, after, like, 5 minutes. I was

1254
00:45:12,563 --> 00:45:13,835
like, no, it sounds like, a great idea.

1255
00:45:14,074 --> 00:45:16,079
Let's do it. So I'd already kind of

1256
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:17,997
been prime to, hey, there's a lot of

1257
00:45:17,997 --> 00:45:19,835
energy around this right now. The climb community

1258
00:45:19,835 --> 00:45:22,152
is growing really quickly and people are curious

1259
00:45:22,152 --> 00:45:24,563
about it. So we kinda of put our

1260
00:45:24,563 --> 00:45:26,419
heads together and we came up with this

1261
00:45:26,477 --> 00:45:28,391
definition around a Doc series, and the the

1262
00:45:28,391 --> 00:45:30,487
format would be, I'd be the host and

1263
00:45:30,545 --> 00:45:33,177
we'd have other experts like Hazel on the

1264
00:45:33,177 --> 00:45:33,815
topic of flow.

1265
00:45:35,025 --> 00:45:38,051
I talked to Katie Brown about being the

1266
00:45:38,051 --> 00:45:40,918
cause for for fear of failure. And so

1267
00:45:40,918 --> 00:45:42,692
some of these other climber who

1268
00:45:43,242 --> 00:45:45,151
kind of our experts in their own right.

1269
00:45:45,390 --> 00:45:47,799
I... I'm teaming up with them, and we

1270
00:45:47,936 --> 00:45:49,447
have a couple of... We call them guest

1271
00:45:49,447 --> 00:45:52,487
climber, so non famous non experts, they come

1272
00:45:52,487 --> 00:45:54,083
and we spend a couple of days, like

1273
00:45:54,083 --> 00:45:56,476
coaching them in whatever the topic is. You

1274
00:45:56,476 --> 00:45:58,150
know, like, I did this thing with Hazel.

1275
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:59,905
We went out to Moa, and we coach

1276
00:45:59,905 --> 00:46:01,994
a couple climber about flow. Who were people

1277
00:46:01,994 --> 00:46:03,191
who are trying to find more flow in

1278
00:46:03,191 --> 00:46:03,750
their climbing.

1279
00:46:04,947 --> 00:46:05,925
Fantastic. Hey

1280
00:46:06,543 --> 00:46:07,740
like the nicest person.

1281
00:46:08,458 --> 00:46:12,309
Geez great. Jeez really, really sweet. Really, really

1282
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:12,550
smart.

1283
00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:15,030
We did... We had a great time coaching

1284
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:16,949
together. You know, we we put together this

1285
00:46:16,949 --> 00:46:19,362
pilot... We haven't edited it yet. That's kind

1286
00:46:19,362 --> 00:46:21,835
of on on my to do list of

1287
00:46:21,835 --> 00:46:24,068
get that done, because it's... You know, I

1288
00:46:24,068 --> 00:46:25,664
sit back and I I watch it. It

1289
00:46:25,664 --> 00:46:27,658
was... 1 of the women wanted to wanted

1290
00:46:27,658 --> 00:46:28,615
to start project.

1291
00:46:29,027 --> 00:46:31,489
Okay. So she had been climbing, like, 11:11

1292
00:46:31,489 --> 00:46:32,601
plus in Moa.

1293
00:46:33,157 --> 00:46:35,461
And she really wanna start project 12. That

1294
00:46:35,461 --> 00:46:37,605
she just hadn't, and she and she had

1295
00:46:37,605 --> 00:46:37,764
some...

1296
00:46:38,653 --> 00:46:40,563
Some friction in doing so. So Hazel and

1297
00:46:40,643 --> 00:46:43,269
I spent some time coaching her on how

1298
00:46:43,269 --> 00:46:44,782
to do that. It was interesting trying to

1299
00:46:44,782 --> 00:46:45,998
apply flow to pro

1300
00:46:47,010 --> 00:46:49,576
because they... You know, that they're not usually

1301
00:46:49,576 --> 00:46:51,013
seen this way. So he's and lie I

1302
00:46:51,013 --> 00:46:53,487
both were able to learn ourselves a lot

1303
00:46:53,487 --> 00:46:54,786
and shed some light onto

1304
00:46:55,164 --> 00:46:56,521
how flow can be found.

1305
00:46:57,333 --> 00:46:59,668
In project projecting and how it applies. So

1306
00:46:59,886 --> 00:47:01,322
we just had a fantastic time. And I

1307
00:47:01,322 --> 00:47:03,156
just gotta know from this Carolyn woman she

1308
00:47:03,156 --> 00:47:04,990
just sent this climb desert shield that we

1309
00:47:04,990 --> 00:47:06,448
helped her to work on back.

1310
00:47:06,825 --> 00:47:08,828
Yeah. So she's like, hey, By the way,

1311
00:47:09,067 --> 00:47:10,735
I went to bed desert shield I was

1312
00:47:10,735 --> 00:47:12,348
thinking all the things that you and Da

1313
00:47:12,723 --> 00:47:13,915
coach me on. And I just sent it.

1314
00:47:14,074 --> 00:47:15,743
I was like, oh my goodness. How cool

1315
00:47:15,743 --> 00:47:18,141
man. That's not that's not like some, like,

1316
00:47:18,697 --> 00:47:21,160
like, Dink Lil sport climb. Right, that's like

1317
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,454
a big proud

1318
00:47:22,828 --> 00:47:24,496
Indian Creek desert climb. Yeah.

1319
00:47:25,228 --> 00:47:27,804
And it's also not like, just classic

1320
00:47:28,262 --> 00:47:30,178
straightforward plugging cams in and go and there's,

1321
00:47:30,258 --> 00:47:32,573
like, there's climate in there. This was also

1322
00:47:32,573 --> 00:47:35,144
deep congratulate, Carol and his eyes. Then? Weird

1323
00:47:35,144 --> 00:47:35,644
turnaround,

1324
00:47:36,264 --> 00:47:38,985
Bomb basing and then Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah.

1325
00:47:39,224 --> 00:47:41,625
Yeah. I'm little gear right there. Little gear.

1326
00:47:41,864 --> 00:47:44,360
Yeah. Ben Yeah. Totally. That's awesome. So Carolyn

1327
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:45,639
is that what you said her name is.

1328
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,360
Yeah. Carolyn. Congratulations, Caroline, if you're listening. Yeah

1329
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:48,760
Caroline.

1330
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:50,280
I was...

1331
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:52,290
1 of the proudest roots in the Creek.

1332
00:47:52,608 --> 00:47:54,359
Yeah. What I mean, where it sits and

1333
00:47:54,359 --> 00:47:56,370
in that upper d,

1334
00:47:57,143 --> 00:48:00,180
ridiculous. Nice job. Roots So that that in

1335
00:48:00,180 --> 00:48:01,690
my inbox about a month or so ago,

1336
00:48:01,769 --> 00:48:03,438
and I just brought the go. Biggest smile

1337
00:48:03,438 --> 00:48:05,266
at my face. So that... And that's what

1338
00:48:05,266 --> 00:48:06,776
we're hoping to do. We're hoping to bring

1339
00:48:06,776 --> 00:48:09,824
some expertise. So and share with people some

1340
00:48:09,824 --> 00:48:12,304
some coaching in this doc series. So we

1341
00:48:12,304 --> 00:48:14,065
did the pilot. Right now, we're in the

1342
00:48:14,065 --> 00:48:15,824
process of looking for,

1343
00:48:16,784 --> 00:48:18,480
distribution like, we've been talking to a bunch

1344
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,640
of distribution, try to trying to get the

1345
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:21,920
money to produce the rest of the things.

1346
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:23,380
So now

1347
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:24,960
it's just 1 in that part of the

1348
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,134
journey. I was like, okay. We're... We have

1349
00:48:27,134 --> 00:48:30,410
this pilot, and I I just decided to

1350
00:48:30,410 --> 00:48:32,487
start a podcast. So the the doc series

1351
00:48:32,487 --> 00:48:33,925
is tunnel inside the vertical mind.

1352
00:48:34,578 --> 00:48:36,328
And the podcast is inside the vertical mind.

1353
00:48:36,487 --> 00:48:38,021
And so 1 of the things

1354
00:48:38,396 --> 00:48:40,783
I wanna do with the podcast is I

1355
00:48:40,783 --> 00:48:43,191
wanna... Talk about things that are, like, the

1356
00:48:43,191 --> 00:48:45,426
mental and social aspects of declining. I I...

1357
00:48:45,665 --> 00:48:48,219
I'm really not focused on who's done the

1358
00:48:48,219 --> 00:48:50,708
hardest as the newest d 16 or you

1359
00:48:50,708 --> 00:48:53,252
know, who's done the hardest things. I wanna...

1360
00:48:53,729 --> 00:48:56,217
I'm more interested in things like how

1361
00:48:56,670 --> 00:48:58,022
how to bring more fun to your climbing.

1362
00:48:58,514 --> 00:49:00,352
You know, what to do after you're pregnant

1363
00:49:00,352 --> 00:49:02,350
for women. After you're pregnant, how to get

1364
00:49:02,350 --> 00:49:04,747
back in into climbing in that situation. So

1365
00:49:04,747 --> 00:49:06,526
bringing people with different experiences,

1366
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:08,059
to the podcast,

1367
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:10,279
that's kinda... That's kinda what I what I

1368
00:49:10,279 --> 00:49:11,719
wanna do. So I done a few episodes,

1369
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,960
and I'm very excited about it.

1370
00:49:14,694 --> 00:49:15,969
Is it out? I mean, people are lit...

1371
00:49:16,128 --> 00:49:17,960
Your Yeah put put this 1 out? Yeah.

1372
00:49:18,359 --> 00:49:20,191
I have got 3 episodes out there. I

1373
00:49:20,191 --> 00:49:22,740
just finished editing along with Mark K. We

1374
00:49:22,740 --> 00:49:23,936
talked about as Ism.

1375
00:49:24,586 --> 00:49:27,048
Is little kinda qui sayings that are that

1376
00:49:27,048 --> 00:49:28,875
are kinda fun. And I'm I'm trying to

1377
00:49:28,875 --> 00:49:30,702
get a couple episodes done a month. 1

1378
00:49:30,702 --> 00:49:32,941
of the things that I kind of think

1379
00:49:32,941 --> 00:49:35,722
about with you as this as this... And,

1380
00:49:35,801 --> 00:49:38,129
you know, you're not you're not, like, technically

1381
00:49:38,185 --> 00:49:40,092
coaching you said anymore. But but all this

1382
00:49:40,092 --> 00:49:41,068
stuff is about

1383
00:49:41,380 --> 00:49:43,159
you know, is about sort of a broad

1384
00:49:43,460 --> 00:49:46,679
idea of of coaching of of getting people

1385
00:49:46,819 --> 00:49:47,800
past these hurdles

1386
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:50,344
through through your knowledge and what you know

1387
00:49:50,344 --> 00:49:52,570
in your experience. And, you know, in coaching

1388
00:49:52,570 --> 00:49:55,931
are this idea of of people doing this

1389
00:49:56,067 --> 00:49:59,412
is is also kind of relatively new. I

1390
00:49:59,412 --> 00:50:01,157
mean, you know, if you went back 20

1391
00:50:01,157 --> 00:50:02,663
years ago, who would we even talk about,

1392
00:50:02,742 --> 00:50:05,061
like, Who Newman? Like, you know, or John

1393
00:50:05,220 --> 00:50:07,211
Long through his, like, you know, you go

1394
00:50:07,211 --> 00:50:09,202
back even further through his, like, how to

1395
00:50:09,202 --> 00:50:09,862
rock climb

1396
00:50:10,397 --> 00:50:13,026
series if year old enough to to probably

1397
00:50:13,026 --> 00:50:13,265
have,

1398
00:50:13,838 --> 00:50:14,395
devoured those.

1399
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:17,264
And and, you know, but it it this

1400
00:50:17,264 --> 00:50:17,764
whole

1401
00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:19,814
proliferation of it is is very new and

1402
00:50:19,814 --> 00:50:22,144
it's because we have this this format, this

1403
00:50:22,144 --> 00:50:23,425
online format to be able to do it,

1404
00:50:23,744 --> 00:50:26,324
which has also grown in use and popularity

1405
00:50:26,545 --> 00:50:28,864
not... Hasn't been around that long. The idea

1406
00:50:28,864 --> 00:50:29,960
of skype was the

1407
00:50:30,478 --> 00:50:32,474
kind of verb with it, but there's 80

1408
00:50:32,474 --> 00:50:34,948
platforms to do it now. So that's been

1409
00:50:34,948 --> 00:50:36,465
part of it. But 1 of the things

1410
00:50:36,625 --> 00:50:38,460
I've enjoyed or I enjoyed when you came

1411
00:50:38,460 --> 00:50:40,393
out with vertical mind and talking to you

1412
00:50:40,393 --> 00:50:41,612
last time is that,

1413
00:50:41,991 --> 00:50:44,228
you know, you aren't no offense and hope,

1414
00:50:44,388 --> 00:50:45,427
I can't... I wanna offend you with this.

1415
00:50:45,587 --> 00:50:46,865
But, you know, it's like, you're not a

1416
00:50:46,865 --> 00:50:47,559
hot shit

1417
00:50:47,997 --> 00:50:50,702
top of the form climber, you know, and

1418
00:50:50,702 --> 00:50:53,327
and you you sort of never really were,

1419
00:50:53,804 --> 00:50:54,202
you know,

1420
00:50:54,933 --> 00:50:56,768
And and so it's like,

1421
00:50:57,805 --> 00:51:00,618
that perspective, I think, sometimes I'm a little

1422
00:51:00,676 --> 00:51:03,069
suspicious and of, like, these top end climber

1423
00:51:03,069 --> 00:51:05,316
that are gonna teach some you know, someone

1424
00:51:05,316 --> 00:51:07,704
to break through from 05:10 to 05:11. Like,

1425
00:51:07,864 --> 00:51:09,695
you... Do you even remember what that was

1426
00:51:09,695 --> 00:51:11,527
like? Like, has... Was that ever a thing

1427
00:51:11,527 --> 00:51:12,880
for you? So so many of,

1428
00:51:13,293 --> 00:51:15,463
top end climber. You know, they they basically

1429
00:51:15,521 --> 00:51:17,669
came out of the womb climbing pretty darn

1430
00:51:17,669 --> 00:51:18,942
hard or pretty immediately.

1431
00:51:20,135 --> 00:51:22,539
And I think Hazel is someone who's who's

1432
00:51:22,539 --> 00:51:24,539
able to to do that in my mind,

1433
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:27,420
she's able to put herself empathetic in in

1434
00:51:27,420 --> 00:51:29,820
the shoes of of someone that's not nearly

1435
00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:29,980
as...

1436
00:51:30,873 --> 00:51:32,230
Accomplish this she is, but I don't think

1437
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:35,182
all coaches are. And so do you... Is

1438
00:51:35,182 --> 00:51:37,417
that something that you're you actively think about

1439
00:51:37,417 --> 00:51:40,381
this idea of, being empathetic to those who,

1440
00:51:40,540 --> 00:51:42,691
you know, went through something... Or... Or, sorry.

1441
00:51:43,010 --> 00:51:44,683
Those who are going through something that you

1442
00:51:44,683 --> 00:51:45,422
went through

1443
00:51:46,051 --> 00:51:48,198
a long, long time ago. Again, no offense

1444
00:51:48,198 --> 00:51:50,345
style... No. Not No. I quite the same

1445
00:51:50,345 --> 00:51:52,174
never age wise never been that part of

1446
00:51:52,174 --> 00:51:54,180
a climber, you know, and it end. But

1447
00:51:54,260 --> 00:51:56,039
I'm extremely enthusiastic.

1448
00:51:56,739 --> 00:51:59,219
I've loved climbing for 33 years now and

1449
00:51:59,219 --> 00:52:01,140
there's no end in sight, and we all

1450
00:52:01,140 --> 00:52:03,148
have our talents. Right? 1 of my talents

1451
00:52:03,148 --> 00:52:05,614
isn't necessarily climbing. I actually do have a

1452
00:52:05,614 --> 00:52:08,420
pretty good talent about taping taking complex things

1453
00:52:08,954 --> 00:52:11,260
and making them sound simple. And so that's

1454
00:52:11,260 --> 00:52:13,023
what I you know, 1 of my goals

1455
00:52:13,023 --> 00:52:15,324
in vertical mind was to make what is

1456
00:52:15,324 --> 00:52:17,388
a very complex subject and actually this books

1457
00:52:17,388 --> 00:52:19,610
written, you can barely read because the vocabulary

1458
00:52:19,610 --> 00:52:21,872
is so difficult to get through. But through

1459
00:52:21,929 --> 00:52:23,440
telling of the stories and a little bit

1460
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:24,974
of science and a little bit of practical,

1461
00:52:25,587 --> 00:52:27,655
try to make it consumable for people. And

1462
00:52:27,655 --> 00:52:29,166
so that's 1 of the things I enjoy.

1463
00:52:29,739 --> 00:52:30,239
And

1464
00:52:30,777 --> 00:52:33,813
yeah. I I feel like people who aren't.

1465
00:52:34,053 --> 00:52:36,664
In fact, I would say the people that

1466
00:52:36,943 --> 00:52:39,563
don't wanna do my workshops to stuff are

1467
00:52:39,563 --> 00:52:40,358
the harder climber.

1468
00:52:41,231 --> 00:52:43,217
Sure. You know? It's like, I know way

1469
00:52:43,217 --> 00:52:45,539
more than that. I, you know, I but

1470
00:52:45,539 --> 00:52:47,460
it's the people who are, like, wow. I

1471
00:52:47,460 --> 00:52:48,819
think I could really learn from this. You

1472
00:52:48,819 --> 00:52:50,839
know? Because I I mean I... On that

1473
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:51,859
on, like, 13 something.

1474
00:52:52,420 --> 00:52:54,019
So... And I didn't climb in for...

1475
00:52:54,672 --> 00:52:55,387
A long time.

1476
00:52:56,103 --> 00:52:57,295
I've taken lots of falls.

1477
00:52:57,931 --> 00:52:58,431
So,

1478
00:52:58,965 --> 00:53:01,270
you know, that's that's I think the people

1479
00:53:01,270 --> 00:53:02,088
of the more

1480
00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:04,477
everyday climber who maybe the climb up to

1481
00:53:04,477 --> 00:53:06,475
10 or 11 kind of really see what

1482
00:53:06,555 --> 00:53:08,074
I do and they're... They they like it,

1483
00:53:08,153 --> 00:53:09,672
and they can relate to me. Then I

1484
00:53:09,672 --> 00:53:11,510
keep things fun. Like, my workshops are flipping

1485
00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:13,195
fun. That's 1 of my objectives. If you

1486
00:53:13,195 --> 00:53:14,546
ain't have fun it and getting done.

1487
00:53:15,898 --> 00:53:17,964
Well, the thing too is that, you know,

1488
00:53:18,203 --> 00:53:19,156
I've always noticed.

1489
00:53:19,569 --> 00:53:21,561
Is that you're... You what you just described

1490
00:53:21,561 --> 00:53:23,474
and and if you wanted to break through

1491
00:53:23,474 --> 00:53:26,263
from, like, you know, 11 to 12. Like,

1492
00:53:26,422 --> 00:53:26,901
that is...

1493
00:53:27,474 --> 00:53:30,584
Has traditionally been this very big hurdle. And

1494
00:53:30,584 --> 00:53:31,084
and,

1495
00:53:31,621 --> 00:53:33,854
you know, I think it's easy to think

1496
00:53:33,854 --> 00:53:36,327
that because of the way we consume climbing

1497
00:53:36,327 --> 00:53:39,294
media that that 05:12 is not hard anymore,

1498
00:53:40,092 --> 00:53:41,928
because of with the way people climb, you

1499
00:53:41,928 --> 00:53:44,163
know, it seems like, again, they they they

1500
00:53:44,163 --> 00:53:46,331
come out of the womb climbing much much

1501
00:53:46,331 --> 00:53:48,241
harder than that. But, our friend,

1502
00:53:48,877 --> 00:53:50,150
or my friend, I don't know if you're

1503
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:51,503
friends with them. I think you know, Andrew

1504
00:53:51,583 --> 00:53:51,901
Bi at.

1505
00:53:52,697 --> 00:53:55,102
You know, we joke because he he... 1

1506
00:53:55,102 --> 00:53:57,254
of his long lost books that he wrote

1507
00:53:57,254 --> 00:53:59,166
that's out of print or whatever was, you

1508
00:53:59,166 --> 00:54:01,254
know, how to climb 05:12 or... You know,

1509
00:54:01,333 --> 00:54:03,487
it had this really crazy long title about

1510
00:54:03,487 --> 00:54:06,278
how basically to go from 11 to 12.

1511
00:54:06,677 --> 00:54:08,193
I feel like that's still this great big

1512
00:54:08,193 --> 00:54:10,847
hurdle, you know, in that and that people

1513
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:12,139
come to this

1514
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,480
roadblock right there,

1515
00:54:14,359 --> 00:54:16,679
especially if you're somewhat casual about your climbing

1516
00:54:16,679 --> 00:54:18,039
if you have a job in a life

1517
00:54:18,039 --> 00:54:19,573
and it you know, kids and all those

1518
00:54:19,573 --> 00:54:21,730
sorts of things. And 5 5 tens that

1519
00:54:21,730 --> 00:54:23,169
way for a lot of people. People who

1520
00:54:23,169 --> 00:54:26,205
aren't necessarily, you know, extremely fit to begin

1521
00:54:26,205 --> 00:54:28,219
with. And we see that a a lot

1522
00:54:28,219 --> 00:54:29,180
more in the gym of these days.

1523
00:54:29,820 --> 00:54:32,059
You know? You you could walk in any

1524
00:54:32,059 --> 00:54:34,780
gem. There's a whole section of people who...

1525
00:54:35,099 --> 00:54:36,937
So They're doing it for exercise. They're doing

1526
00:54:36,937 --> 00:54:39,552
for the social part, they probably will never

1527
00:54:39,552 --> 00:54:41,453
plan fight well. If you gotta do some

1528
00:54:41,453 --> 00:54:44,420
specialized training. Right? Some specialized training like, our

1529
00:54:44,420 --> 00:54:46,579
our fingers hanging out of small holes like

1530
00:54:46,579 --> 00:54:48,819
that. I'm experiencing that right now. I haven't...

1531
00:54:49,059 --> 00:54:50,739
Let's see Last year. I I made a

1532
00:54:50,739 --> 00:54:52,272
pretty good run at. Trying to climb harder,

1533
00:54:52,511 --> 00:54:54,584
but then I I got some elbow problem

1534
00:54:54,584 --> 00:54:56,179
in the fall, then I got a horrible

1535
00:54:56,179 --> 00:54:59,288
flu. And so now I'm kinda getting back

1536
00:54:59,288 --> 00:55:01,536
my crew strength and it. Did easy? Like,

1537
00:55:01,695 --> 00:55:04,726
it takes... That's a very specialized strength. So,

1538
00:55:04,885 --> 00:55:07,038
yeah, let's talk about that then where, you

1539
00:55:07,038 --> 00:55:09,111
know, you're climbing and everyone's climbing.

1540
00:55:09,844 --> 00:55:12,154
You know, ebb and flows and it changes

1541
00:55:12,154 --> 00:55:14,384
meaning and it and you change motivations or

1542
00:55:14,384 --> 00:55:17,252
everything else. You are retired. I... That's happened

1543
00:55:17,252 --> 00:55:19,579
since you wrote the book that, can free

1544
00:55:19,579 --> 00:55:22,775
up time, for some people, doesn't. But yeah.

1545
00:55:22,934 --> 00:55:25,572
Where where's rock climbing for you, and what

1546
00:55:25,572 --> 00:55:27,110
are your own personal goals

1547
00:55:27,742 --> 00:55:29,968
again, as we face aging and and things

1548
00:55:29,968 --> 00:55:32,296
like that. Yeah. I've never been more enthusiastic.

1549
00:55:33,068 --> 00:55:35,532
I climbed 3 days a week, and it's

1550
00:55:35,532 --> 00:55:36,327
not my time.

1551
00:55:36,898 --> 00:55:38,643
I could... I've got time to climb more,

1552
00:55:39,436 --> 00:55:40,468
but I'm 61.

1553
00:55:41,023 --> 00:55:42,928
It's my body. I me, I need that

1554
00:55:42,928 --> 00:55:43,642
amount of recovery.

1555
00:55:44,450 --> 00:55:46,434
And just to just to feel good and

1556
00:55:46,434 --> 00:55:48,814
stay healthy. So last year, I was trying

1557
00:55:48,814 --> 00:55:50,559
to climb a little harder. You know, I

1558
00:55:50,718 --> 00:55:52,226
I wanted to get up to, like, 12.

1559
00:55:52,558 --> 00:55:53,829
Plus 13 minus.

1560
00:55:54,386 --> 00:55:56,373
And I was I was really getting there.

1561
00:55:56,532 --> 00:55:58,121
I was up to, like, 12 plus and

1562
00:55:58,121 --> 00:55:59,313
when I got this elbow thing,

1563
00:56:00,524 --> 00:56:02,362
so it can it can happen. You just

1564
00:56:02,362 --> 00:56:03,640
gotta really apply yourself.

1565
00:56:04,359 --> 00:56:06,197
This year, we're gonna be doing some traveling.

1566
00:56:06,357 --> 00:56:08,935
So I just wanna get in that's that

1567
00:56:09,565 --> 00:56:10,701
confidence level

1568
00:56:11,234 --> 00:56:13,221
on any terrain where I could just walk

1569
00:56:13,221 --> 00:56:15,128
up to... In any climbing area, just walk

1570
00:56:15,128 --> 00:56:17,693
up to things that look inspiring to me

1571
00:56:17,693 --> 00:56:19,370
and are in a a reasonable great range

1572
00:56:19,370 --> 00:56:20,968
and just go up and and have fun

1573
00:56:20,968 --> 00:56:23,205
and, you know, be able to outside and

1574
00:56:23,205 --> 00:56:25,215
come close. So that's kind of my my

1575
00:56:25,215 --> 00:56:27,868
near term goal is that general overall fitness

1576
00:56:28,724 --> 00:56:29,224
level

1577
00:56:29,681 --> 00:56:31,197
to kinda be able to do that. And

1578
00:56:31,197 --> 00:56:34,003
do other climber that are aging Do you

1579
00:56:34,003 --> 00:56:35,674
see a lot of people looking at you

1580
00:56:35,674 --> 00:56:37,288
and and wanting to kinda

1581
00:56:37,743 --> 00:56:38,619
get your secrets?

1582
00:56:39,335 --> 00:56:41,244
Is that, like, a demographic that you feel

1583
00:56:41,244 --> 00:56:42,757
like approaches you quite a bit on this

1584
00:56:42,757 --> 00:56:44,606
or not? Yeah. I mean, I've got a

1585
00:56:44,606 --> 00:56:46,362
lot of people on Facebook who some of

1586
00:56:46,362 --> 00:56:49,097
them might met some might haven't met. And

1587
00:56:49,236 --> 00:56:50,753
there's a lot of us out there, you

1588
00:56:50,753 --> 00:56:53,552
know, 50 plus. Oh who are in the

1589
00:56:53,552 --> 00:56:55,060
game. We wanna stay in the game.

1590
00:56:55,775 --> 00:56:56,092
It's

1591
00:56:57,045 --> 00:56:59,584
you know, and those who are pretty successful

1592
00:56:59,584 --> 00:57:01,269
at it. The other people want know what

1593
00:57:01,269 --> 00:57:04,145
they're doing. Right? And so here's 1... I'll

1594
00:57:04,145 --> 00:57:04,704
share with you,

1595
00:57:05,423 --> 00:57:08,034
1 thing I've learned that's relatively new. I

1596
00:57:08,233 --> 00:57:09,585
I would say I've learned this in the

1597
00:57:09,585 --> 00:57:10,936
past 567

1598
00:57:10,936 --> 00:57:11,436
years

1599
00:57:11,970 --> 00:57:12,470
that

1600
00:57:12,845 --> 00:57:14,037
I used to pretty much be able to

1601
00:57:14,037 --> 00:57:15,866
eat and drink whatever I wanted to.

1602
00:57:16,755 --> 00:57:18,925
And I just did enough

1603
00:57:19,458 --> 00:57:22,264
climbing or whatever that I I could always

1604
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,723
maintain, like, a pretty good pretty good level

1605
00:57:24,723 --> 00:57:26,721
of fitness and my clothes fit and everything.

1606
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,117
And I've just found that I have to

1607
00:57:29,117 --> 00:57:31,449
pay more attention to that now and the

1608
00:57:31,449 --> 00:57:33,442
past couple years I find when I stopped

1609
00:57:33,442 --> 00:57:36,393
drinking alcohol that all of a sudden, I

1610
00:57:36,393 --> 00:57:39,423
start shedding belly fat that's been stubborn for

1611
00:57:39,423 --> 00:57:40,221
me, like,

1612
00:57:40,794 --> 00:57:42,231
I could exercise so while I'm blue the

1613
00:57:42,231 --> 00:57:43,668
face. I can watch what I eat till

1614
00:57:43,827 --> 00:57:44,546
I'm blue the face.

1615
00:57:45,264 --> 00:57:46,940
And I wanna I wanna have an expert

1616
00:57:46,940 --> 00:57:48,696
on that on my podcast because I wanna

1617
00:57:48,856 --> 00:57:50,226
I wanna learn about that. I have a

1618
00:57:50,226 --> 00:57:51,284
feeling. There's some

1619
00:57:51,739 --> 00:57:54,128
some metabolic things in the high sugars and

1620
00:57:54,128 --> 00:57:56,517
everything that are involved in that that it...

1621
00:57:56,835 --> 00:57:59,083
Like, I I stop and it just... I

1622
00:57:59,083 --> 00:58:01,099
start melting away. So

1623
00:58:01,557 --> 00:58:03,153
that has been kind of a secret for

1624
00:58:03,153 --> 00:58:05,469
me. That's really been super helpful. And and

1625
00:58:05,548 --> 00:58:07,006
I'm also finding that

1626
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,276
When I do that, my motivation increases, my

1627
00:58:10,276 --> 00:58:12,513
anxiety goes down. And so I I think

1628
00:58:12,513 --> 00:58:15,070
there's for me that that really has been

1629
00:58:15,070 --> 00:58:17,076
helpful. Was this something that was tricky? I

1630
00:58:17,076 --> 00:58:18,110
mean, is it a part of your life?

1631
00:58:18,349 --> 00:58:19,702
I mean, not not as far as like,

1632
00:58:20,100 --> 00:58:21,612
you know, a problem, but, like, you know,

1633
00:58:21,850 --> 00:58:23,760
No. It's socially and everything else? My wife

1634
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,288
and I would do it Right. Friday and

1635
00:58:25,368 --> 00:58:26,485
Friday night Date and night I get a

1636
00:58:26,485 --> 00:58:29,436
ball line and Have a cocktail whatever. And

1637
00:58:29,436 --> 00:58:31,451
so that's been challenging

1638
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:32,467
to navigate.

1639
00:58:33,025 --> 00:58:34,402
Right? But I think

1640
00:58:35,034 --> 00:58:37,579
once you start and you see... I I

1641
00:58:37,579 --> 00:58:38,931
just see what happens. And I'm like, well,

1642
00:58:39,090 --> 00:58:40,442
okay. I wanna get there.

1643
00:58:41,238 --> 00:58:41,738
And

1644
00:58:42,049 --> 00:58:43,566
by the way, it's really hard to get

1645
00:58:43,566 --> 00:58:45,422
there any other way. And so,

1646
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:47,476
you know, for a month, 2 months, 3

1647
00:58:47,476 --> 00:58:47,976
months

1648
00:58:48,355 --> 00:58:49,951
make the make the change. And

1649
00:58:50,683 --> 00:58:52,828
it's it's just remarkable for me. So I

1650
00:58:52,828 --> 00:58:54,735
wanna learn more about that, because I... I

1651
00:58:54,735 --> 00:58:56,244
wish thought calories is a calorie. Right?

1652
00:58:57,118 --> 00:58:59,039
Alright. But I think there's something more subtle

1653
00:58:59,039 --> 00:59:00,230
in there. So I wanna... I'm gonna learn

1654
00:59:00,230 --> 00:59:02,214
a little bit more about that. Well, I

1655
00:59:02,214 --> 00:59:03,802
mean, I think all the research is showing

1656
00:59:03,802 --> 00:59:05,787
just it's... Yeah. I mean, it's it's poison.

1657
00:59:06,025 --> 00:59:08,992
Yeah. I you're just poisoning yourself on all

1658
00:59:08,992 --> 00:59:11,230
different levels. And like it, you know, it

1659
00:59:11,230 --> 00:59:13,467
turns out that whole a glass of wine

1660
00:59:13,467 --> 00:59:15,705
thing a day was was completely bullshit and

1661
00:59:15,705 --> 00:59:19,306
was basically funded by the all wine industry.

1662
00:59:19,624 --> 00:59:21,377
You know. So it... Yeah. It's kind of

1663
00:59:21,377 --> 00:59:23,766
interesting that, like, you know, the health benefits

1664
00:59:23,766 --> 00:59:25,280
will go away beyond whether or not you

1665
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,280
can Climb 13 a again or not, you

1666
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,410
know. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. No. So, again, it's

1667
00:59:31,410 --> 00:59:32,839
it's I look at... I look at where

1668
00:59:32,839 --> 00:59:34,586
where I wanna be. I wanna be as

1669
00:59:34,586 --> 00:59:36,351
health. As I can. I wanna continue to

1670
00:59:36,351 --> 00:59:38,658
do what I want as long as possible

1671
00:59:38,658 --> 00:59:40,409
wanna avoid any of the nasty things. Here's

1672
00:59:40,409 --> 00:59:41,920
some other things is you get your sixties.

1673
00:59:42,159 --> 00:59:43,885
You start looking around. You start you rapidly

1674
00:59:44,005 --> 00:59:46,324
people around you or your age starting to

1675
00:59:46,324 --> 00:59:47,925
come down with some things that are hard.

1676
00:59:48,644 --> 00:59:50,965
Mh. You know, life changing medical things.

1677
00:59:51,764 --> 00:59:53,144
And so you start

1678
00:59:53,698 --> 00:59:56,810
getting a little more conscious of my actions,

1679
00:59:57,289 --> 00:59:59,044
like, maybe I should try harder, you know,

1680
00:59:59,204 --> 01:00:02,088
as some things. Like, getting getting the right

1681
01:00:02,088 --> 01:00:03,463
times exercise, maybe

1682
01:00:04,077 --> 01:00:06,305
watching more how I would eat, Maybe being

1683
01:00:06,305 --> 01:00:08,692
a little more careful with injury prevention. You

1684
01:00:08,692 --> 01:00:11,573
know, maybe stretching more, as so it that...

1685
01:00:11,812 --> 01:00:12,869
That's kind been

1686
01:00:13,563 --> 01:00:15,178
kind of a wave for me

1687
01:00:15,554 --> 01:00:17,943
in the last couple of years. And so

1688
01:00:17,943 --> 01:00:19,865
it's it's... It's been something I'm thinking a

1689
01:00:19,865 --> 01:00:22,008
lot about. Yeah. It's fascinating too with the

1690
01:00:22,008 --> 01:00:24,310
alcoholic thing about how, you know, in in

1691
01:00:24,310 --> 01:00:25,501
this show is part of it, You know,

1692
01:00:25,659 --> 01:00:27,009
we joke around about it all the time,

1693
01:00:27,167 --> 01:00:29,497
and you know, had a whiskey sponsor, and,

1694
01:00:29,657 --> 01:00:31,414
you know, we started this podcast. We're talking

1695
01:00:31,414 --> 01:00:33,572
about, you know, your your buddy's margarita at

1696
01:00:33,572 --> 01:00:35,979
post climbing. It's such this It really is,

1697
01:00:36,139 --> 01:00:38,445
at least with outdoor climbing, it really is

1698
01:00:38,445 --> 01:00:40,195
kind of in the fiber, you know,

1699
01:00:41,070 --> 01:00:43,393
that kind of like, hanging out drinking beers

1700
01:00:43,393 --> 01:00:45,544
after climbing sort of thing is I mean

1701
01:00:45,544 --> 01:00:48,172
rifle. It's it's almost, you know, it's almost

1702
01:00:48,172 --> 01:00:50,083
like a institutional thing you have to do

1703
01:00:50,083 --> 01:00:51,453
when you're there. And in a weird way.

1704
01:00:51,612 --> 01:00:51,772
And,

1705
01:00:52,490 --> 01:00:54,326
it's... So it's kinda fascinating, like, look at

1706
01:00:54,326 --> 01:00:56,401
it and be like, well, Jeez, it's it's

1707
01:00:56,401 --> 01:00:59,529
completely detrimental to what our pursuit is But

1708
01:00:59,529 --> 01:01:01,047
but it's also, like, back to having fun.

1709
01:01:01,287 --> 01:01:02,965
It's also fun. It's. I'm moderated.

1710
01:01:03,444 --> 01:01:06,001
Drink peers friends after after a after a

1711
01:01:06,001 --> 01:01:07,600
day of climbing kinda. And vertical mind.

1712
01:01:08,333 --> 01:01:10,248
1 of the things was Margarita. Right? We

1713
01:01:10,327 --> 01:01:12,321
Jeff and I sit around drinking Margarita so...

1714
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,714
Right and I I would, you know, I

1715
01:01:14,714 --> 01:01:16,628
would not wanna do that for the world.

1716
01:01:16,867 --> 01:01:18,876
It's just when I when I look at

1717
01:01:18,876 --> 01:01:21,690
what my objectives are and what my challenges

1718
01:01:21,748 --> 01:01:21,987
are,

1719
01:01:22,625 --> 01:01:24,778
how just changing 1 thing can make a

1720
01:01:24,778 --> 01:01:27,251
big difference sometimes. And just got yourself what

1721
01:01:27,251 --> 01:01:29,340
it what I wanna do? So how do

1722
01:01:29,340 --> 01:01:31,255
people figure out when this

1723
01:01:31,972 --> 01:01:34,684
this maybe Doc series is coming out if

1724
01:01:34,684 --> 01:01:36,359
it does and and things like that? Like,

1725
01:01:36,518 --> 01:01:38,444
how do they connect with you don? So

1726
01:01:38,444 --> 01:01:40,584
probably best thing to do is

1727
01:01:41,218 --> 01:01:43,754
you can follow inside the vertical mine podcast

1728
01:01:43,754 --> 01:01:45,260
because I'll I'll be talking a lot about.

1729
01:01:45,434 --> 01:01:47,530
That. That's on Spotify, Apple podcast,

1730
01:01:48,786 --> 01:01:51,442
Youtube music. All the things. Yep. Or

1731
01:01:51,819 --> 01:01:53,575
you can go to vertical mine dot show.

1732
01:01:54,387 --> 01:01:56,538
Is a website where we'll be doing updates

1733
01:01:56,538 --> 01:01:57,175
on the progress,

1734
01:01:57,733 --> 01:02:00,781
progress for that. Cool. Fossil on Instagram

1735
01:02:01,157 --> 01:02:02,431
at inside the vertical mine.

1736
01:02:03,404 --> 01:02:05,722
Okay. Cool. Awesome, Don. Well, thanks for coming

1737
01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:07,799
back on the show. That we miss anything?

1738
01:02:08,119 --> 01:02:10,916
No. No Absolutely. I wanna congratulate again on

1739
01:02:10,916 --> 01:02:12,846
277

1740
01:02:12,846 --> 01:02:13,083
is it...

1741
01:02:13,956 --> 01:02:15,647
No. I think we're at 84

1742
01:02:15,782 --> 01:02:16,020
sure...

1743
01:02:17,369 --> 01:02:18,797
I think that's the 1 I just posted.

1744
01:02:18,956 --> 01:02:21,591
So... Yeah. They just pile up, like... Fucking

1745
01:02:21,591 --> 01:02:24,135
driftwood, man. Like So... Yeah. I can't keep

1746
01:02:24,135 --> 01:02:25,725
up with how many there are 10:10 years

1747
01:02:25,725 --> 01:02:27,793
ago. We went from episode 61. Now we're

1748
01:02:27,793 --> 01:02:28,827
here at 2 80 something.

1749
01:02:29,399 --> 01:02:31,554
So there was in the mint mint... In

1750
01:02:31,554 --> 01:02:33,550
the meantime, there was a normal baby, which

1751
01:02:33,550 --> 01:02:35,706
is now a normal toddler. I would imagine.

1752
01:02:36,025 --> 01:02:38,580
Yeah. No. No. He's 8. If a normal.

1753
01:02:38,834 --> 01:02:41,224
8 year old. So a lot has happened

1754
01:02:41,224 --> 01:02:43,775
in 10 years. And I I bought 2

1755
01:02:43,775 --> 01:02:45,847
houses. Bought 1 sold 1 bought another 1.

1756
01:02:46,818 --> 01:02:48,732
Got married. I got married in there.

1757
01:02:49,370 --> 01:02:50,486
You yeah, I had a kid.

1758
01:02:51,922 --> 01:02:54,394
Yeah. It's kinda wild that it's it's just

1759
01:02:54,394 --> 01:02:55,032
marches is on.

1760
01:02:55,925 --> 01:02:57,444
It it it blows my mind. I'm sure,

1761
01:02:57,605 --> 01:02:59,364
like, the... Like, you've been talking about on

1762
01:02:59,364 --> 01:03:01,224
this podcast the this kinda

1763
01:03:01,764 --> 01:03:04,005
continued interest and and people coming out of

1764
01:03:04,005 --> 01:03:06,019
the blue even 10 years after your book

1765
01:03:06,019 --> 01:03:08,340
was written and is it's just kind of

1766
01:03:08,660 --> 01:03:09,700
it's fun and and

1767
01:03:10,260 --> 01:03:11,860
yeah, it it makes you feel like he...

1768
01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:13,940
You did something good. Yeah. And you too.

1769
01:03:14,099 --> 01:03:15,789
You're you're doing great. Things for the climbing

1770
01:03:15,789 --> 01:03:17,936
community. So appreciate how you doing and it's

1771
01:03:17,936 --> 01:03:20,400
been absolute fun catching up after after 10

1772
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:20,639
years.

1773
01:03:22,945 --> 01:03:23,000
Thanks

1774
01:03:37,947 --> 01:03:40,764
Alright. Folks. Thanks for listening Thanks Don for

1775
01:03:40,980 --> 01:03:42,014
coming back on the show,

1776
01:03:42,730 --> 01:03:44,877
and thanks for being there 10 years ago

1777
01:03:44,877 --> 01:03:46,944
when people were pretty skeptical about what I

1778
01:03:46,944 --> 01:03:48,873
was up to. Thanks you can find out

1779
01:03:48,873 --> 01:03:50,871
more about the whole vertical mine seen.

1780
01:03:51,431 --> 01:03:52,550
The things going on,

1781
01:03:53,429 --> 01:03:56,087
get the book. Whatever you wanna do, follow

1782
01:03:56,386 --> 01:03:58,719
Don in the vertical mind at inside the

1783
01:03:58,719 --> 01:04:01,679
vertical mind over there at Instagram. That's the

1784
01:04:01,679 --> 01:04:02,719
best launching point.

1785
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,335
Okay. Gonna load this 1

1786
01:04:05,772 --> 01:04:07,124
spit it out there and head the lander.

1787
01:04:07,362 --> 01:04:09,192
So Hope I see you up there, and,

1788
01:04:09,271 --> 01:04:10,543
of course, check your knots.

1789
01:04:30,397 --> 01:04:32,384
Yeah So what's your name? John Mid.

1790
01:04:32,860 --> 01:04:33,360
And

1791
01:04:33,734 --> 01:04:34,211
what do you do?

1792
01:04:34,926 --> 01:04:37,469
Well, right now, I'm back into the cartilage

1793
01:04:37,469 --> 01:04:38,581
edge design business.

1794
01:04:38,994 --> 01:04:40,664
I've actually... Just in the last 6 months.

1795
01:04:40,823 --> 01:04:43,050
I've been working on this new portal edge.

1796
01:04:43,210 --> 01:04:44,562
I used to do that back in the,

1797
01:04:45,596 --> 01:04:47,999
eighties and nineties. And those were used big

1798
01:04:47,999 --> 01:04:49,677
wall climber all over the world to do

1799
01:04:49,677 --> 01:04:52,393
new routes. Big walls are walls that are

1800
01:04:52,393 --> 01:04:55,282
maybe 300 to 1500 meters high, by and

1801
01:04:55,282 --> 01:04:57,348
there big rock faces that you can't really

1802
01:04:57,348 --> 01:04:59,358
climb in a day because they're too technical

1803
01:04:59,414 --> 01:05:01,344
and too big. So portal edge is something

1804
01:05:01,639 --> 01:05:04,117
that you can use to sleep, for those

1805
01:05:04,117 --> 01:05:05,389
nights that you're up on the wall.

1806
01:05:06,344 --> 01:05:09,047
19 92, I climbed Great Triangle tower, which

1807
01:05:09,047 --> 01:05:11,433
is a probably the biggest big wall of

1808
01:05:11,433 --> 01:05:13,753
the world for in Pakistan in the care

1809
01:05:13,753 --> 01:05:16,932
quorum. And we we climbed the steepest and

1810
01:05:16,932 --> 01:05:18,045
biggest phase of that,

1811
01:05:18,681 --> 01:05:20,986
in 18 days. We spent 15 days climbing

1812
01:05:20,986 --> 01:05:22,984
up. And 3 days to descending the face.