1 00:00:03,864 --> 00:00:05,378 A potter sits at her wheel. 2 00:00:06,015 --> 00:00:07,529 In front of her is the wheel head, 3 00:00:07,848 --> 00:00:09,441 ready to receive a ball of clay. 4 00:00:10,493 --> 00:00:12,729 It is still for now though, an axle 5 00:00:12,729 --> 00:00:14,325 runs down from the wheel head to a 6 00:00:14,325 --> 00:00:15,363 heavier flywheel below. 7 00:00:16,561 --> 00:00:18,237 She braces her toe against the edge of 8 00:00:18,237 --> 00:00:20,748 the flywheel and pushes. In the long kicking 9 00:00:20,806 --> 00:00:20,966 motion. 10 00:00:25,834 --> 00:00:27,351 The flywheel begins to turn. 11 00:00:28,242 --> 00:00:30,227 As it picks up speed, she moves her 12 00:00:30,227 --> 00:00:32,053 foot closer to the center of the flywheel. 13 00:00:33,086 --> 00:00:35,071 The flywheel is carried forward by its own 14 00:00:35,071 --> 00:00:35,547 momentum. 15 00:00:36,199 --> 00:00:38,039 Rather than the long pushing kick she used 16 00:00:38,039 --> 00:00:40,119 to get it moving, she now needs just 17 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:41,399 tap gently with her heel. 18 00:00:43,239 --> 00:00:45,324 With the wheel head spinning, she can now 19 00:00:45,324 --> 00:00:46,038 work on her pot. 20 00:00:46,831 --> 00:00:48,656 The city's spin allows her to work the 21 00:00:48,656 --> 00:00:50,639 clay drawing it up and shaping it into 22 00:00:50,639 --> 00:00:51,909 a s sided vessel. 23 00:00:53,114 --> 00:00:54,939 She doesn't need to think about controlling the 24 00:00:54,939 --> 00:00:55,574 speed of the wheel. 25 00:00:56,685 --> 00:00:59,090 Its momentum keeps the wheels spinning constantly 26 00:00:59,463 --> 00:01:00,732 as she focuses on the clay. 27 00:01:01,704 --> 00:01:04,104 With the pot partially forms, she taps the 28 00:01:04,104 --> 00:01:06,104 wheel again, restoring its momentum. 29 00:01:07,385 --> 00:01:09,944 Flywheel wheels are as old and established a 30 00:01:09,944 --> 00:01:10,444 technology 31 00:01:10,759 --> 00:01:13,149 as any. They the embodiment of a core 32 00:01:13,149 --> 00:01:16,198 concept of physics, the conservation of momentum. 33 00:01:16,973 --> 00:01:19,123 But today, they are at the heart of 34 00:01:19,123 --> 00:01:21,921 2 ideas that could help spin up the 35 00:01:21,921 --> 00:01:22,715 energy transition. 36 00:01:34,889 --> 00:01:37,913 Hello, and welcome to engineering matters. I'm Ian 37 00:01:37,992 --> 00:01:40,708 Owen. And I'm Johnny Dow. Today, we are 38 00:01:40,708 --> 00:01:43,726 celebrating another winner of the engineering matters awards. 39 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,267 Du, Formally Punch Fly, 40 00:01:47,077 --> 00:01:49,070 First, we'll be looking at their gold champion 41 00:01:49,070 --> 00:01:50,663 win in the net 0 category. 42 00:01:51,540 --> 00:01:53,691 Here we'll see how the ability of flywheel 43 00:01:53,691 --> 00:01:57,298 wheels to be repeatedly and rapidly charged and 44 00:01:57,298 --> 00:02:00,411 discharged is helping support the Energy transition in 45 00:02:00,411 --> 00:02:02,407 construction. And then we'll take a look at 46 00:02:02,407 --> 00:02:05,445 their silver champion award 1 in the innovation 47 00:02:05,445 --> 00:02:05,922 category. 48 00:02:06,477 --> 00:02:08,857 In this category, the flywheel wheels are spinning 49 00:02:08,857 --> 00:02:10,682 at the other end of the electricity grid. 50 00:02:11,253 --> 00:02:14,351 Helping to maintain a consistent power factor and 51 00:02:14,351 --> 00:02:16,338 smooth supply from wind turbines. 52 00:02:16,973 --> 00:02:19,058 We spoke to both guests for this episode 53 00:02:19,058 --> 00:02:22,112 in late 20 23 and early 20 24 54 00:02:22,251 --> 00:02:24,007 during the judging process for the awards. 55 00:02:24,726 --> 00:02:26,801 In that time, the company changed its name 56 00:02:26,801 --> 00:02:28,330 from punch, To Du. 57 00:02:32,068 --> 00:02:35,010 Tobias Commercial, now md of Du fly grew 58 00:02:35,010 --> 00:02:37,487 up in Germany. The country has long had 59 00:02:37,487 --> 00:02:40,661 a leading role in automotive manufacturing, and German 60 00:02:40,661 --> 00:02:43,042 own teams are in pole position in performance 61 00:02:43,042 --> 00:02:43,598 motors sports. 62 00:02:44,724 --> 00:02:47,027 But most of the research and development for 63 00:02:47,027 --> 00:02:49,093 these and other teens takes place in the 64 00:02:49,411 --> 00:02:50,602 Uk around Silver stone. 65 00:02:51,397 --> 00:02:53,120 Keen to develop his career in the sport 66 00:02:53,319 --> 00:02:54,438 he'd moved to the Uk. 67 00:02:56,436 --> 00:02:58,434 And so while I was studying here in 68 00:02:58,434 --> 00:02:59,153 in the Uk, 69 00:02:59,952 --> 00:03:02,291 I came across a startup company called 70 00:03:03,083 --> 00:03:06,425 and they just started up in in January 71 00:03:06,425 --> 00:03:08,176 2007, 72 00:03:08,414 --> 00:03:11,756 and I sent them a letter in February 73 00:03:11,756 --> 00:03:13,599 2 7 to ask if I can do 74 00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:16,300 my master's thesis with with fly. And the 75 00:03:16,300 --> 00:03:18,604 guys who set up flag. They were very 76 00:03:18,604 --> 00:03:20,669 surprised after only 1 months of helping Started 77 00:03:20,669 --> 00:03:22,275 the company to get already a let from 78 00:03:22,275 --> 00:03:22,674 a student. 79 00:03:23,235 --> 00:03:24,995 I wanted to do master's with. 80 00:03:25,474 --> 00:03:26,775 So, yeah they 81 00:03:27,634 --> 00:03:29,894 decided to invite before interview, and 82 00:03:30,530 --> 00:03:32,389 took me on. And so I did my 83 00:03:32,610 --> 00:03:34,129 there. And then instead of going back to 84 00:03:34,289 --> 00:03:36,050 Germany, I actually stayed in the Uk. 85 00:03:37,583 --> 00:03:39,575 A short spell in the Uk to complete 86 00:03:39,575 --> 00:03:42,442 his master's research turned into a permanent move. 87 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,310 But as tobias was putting down roots, Library 88 00:03:45,310 --> 00:03:46,186 was changing gears. 89 00:03:47,158 --> 00:03:49,154 In the early days, we really focus on 90 00:03:49,314 --> 00:03:52,028 Motors sport. Right? So the rules in formula 91 00:03:52,028 --> 00:03:52,847 1 change 92 00:03:53,225 --> 00:03:56,694 to allow hybrid systems to be introduced an 93 00:03:56,832 --> 00:03:59,944 informal 1 racing, and fly grid was started 94 00:03:59,944 --> 00:04:02,418 to develop hybrid 4 formula 1 racing. 95 00:04:04,107 --> 00:04:06,494 We really looked at all of the different 96 00:04:06,494 --> 00:04:09,278 ways how you can store energy that could 97 00:04:09,278 --> 00:04:11,203 be relevant for former 1 racing car. 98 00:04:11,918 --> 00:04:14,937 We choose flywheel because the nature of a 99 00:04:14,937 --> 00:04:17,718 former 1 racing class that it is subjected 100 00:04:17,718 --> 00:04:19,307 to very dynamic 2 cycle. 101 00:04:19,878 --> 00:04:21,810 So formula 1 racing car constantly 102 00:04:22,185 --> 00:04:24,492 accelerates a full power, and then the tribe 103 00:04:24,492 --> 00:04:26,694 slams on the brakes to slow down as 104 00:04:26,814 --> 00:04:27,772 fast as possible, 105 00:04:28,171 --> 00:04:30,166 drives around the corner and goes full throttle 106 00:04:30,166 --> 00:04:32,321 on the on on the again. 107 00:04:33,119 --> 00:04:34,795 Think back to the portrait at her wheel. 108 00:04:35,289 --> 00:04:38,575 Getting the flywheel spinning takes real effort. Those 109 00:04:38,632 --> 00:04:39,986 initial kicks on the edge of the wheel. 110 00:04:40,384 --> 00:04:42,852 As she works a clay, friction slows its 111 00:04:42,852 --> 00:04:45,104 spin. But it only takes a gentle tap 112 00:04:45,104 --> 00:04:46,944 at the center of the flywheel to maintain 113 00:04:46,944 --> 00:04:47,345 its speed. 114 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,800 As a formula 1 car accelerates along a 115 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:55,120 straight, 116 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,360 it draws power from the engine. 117 00:04:58,079 --> 00:05:00,694 As the driver approaches a corner, they break 118 00:05:01,054 --> 00:05:02,892 turning that energy into heat. 119 00:05:03,690 --> 00:05:06,827 But what if rather than being lost, that 120 00:05:06,886 --> 00:05:07,845 energy could be stored. 121 00:05:08,658 --> 00:05:11,153 That was the vision behind adding a flywheel 122 00:05:11,451 --> 00:05:14,163 to these cars. And so the idea of 123 00:05:14,163 --> 00:05:16,570 of a hybrid system is that. When when 124 00:05:16,570 --> 00:05:18,640 the driver hits the brakes instead of using 125 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,789 the friction breaks, you use the hybrid system 126 00:05:20,789 --> 00:05:22,621 to slow the vehicle down. And in our 127 00:05:22,621 --> 00:05:25,364 case, with a flywheel wheel, we basically accelerated 128 00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:26,159 the flywheel, 129 00:05:26,773 --> 00:05:28,920 to slow the vehicle down. So we exchanged 130 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,783 kinetic energy from the vehicle with kinetic energy 131 00:05:31,783 --> 00:05:33,469 in the flywheel we So as the vehicle 132 00:05:33,469 --> 00:05:35,379 was getting slower, the flywheel was getting faster 133 00:05:35,379 --> 00:05:36,333 and faster and faster. 134 00:05:36,970 --> 00:05:38,720 And like this, you then store an energy 135 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,470 with flywheel that you then can use to 136 00:05:40,470 --> 00:05:41,560 accelerate again 137 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:43,837 when the car written around the corners. 138 00:05:45,595 --> 00:05:48,892 There are alternatives to flywheel wheels. Typical hybrid 139 00:05:48,952 --> 00:05:51,763 cars use batteries to saw excess energy. But 140 00:05:51,763 --> 00:05:53,758 these take time to charge and have only 141 00:05:53,758 --> 00:05:55,514 a limited number of charging cycles. 142 00:05:56,073 --> 00:05:57,908 What works well with the gentle stop start 143 00:05:57,908 --> 00:06:00,316 of a score rental or commute? Is less 144 00:06:00,316 --> 00:06:02,148 suited to the needs of a high performing 145 00:06:02,148 --> 00:06:02,706 sports car. 146 00:06:03,662 --> 00:06:05,494 If you look at the characteristics of batteries 147 00:06:05,494 --> 00:06:09,055 and flywheel, batteries are much better than flywheel 148 00:06:09,094 --> 00:06:11,793 to store large amount of energy to store 149 00:06:11,793 --> 00:06:13,937 them store that energy for a long period 150 00:06:13,937 --> 00:06:17,057 of time and to discharge that energy over 151 00:06:17,113 --> 00:06:18,959 a long period of to Right? And and 152 00:06:18,959 --> 00:06:20,477 the fly flagships are kind of the opposite. 153 00:06:20,876 --> 00:06:22,474 Fly to install a lot of energy. But 154 00:06:22,474 --> 00:06:24,072 if you need a lot of power and 155 00:06:24,072 --> 00:06:25,750 you need it quickly and you need it 156 00:06:25,750 --> 00:06:26,230 frequently, 157 00:06:26,644 --> 00:06:28,642 then the the flywheel can play to their 158 00:06:28,642 --> 00:06:30,400 advantages, and that's for it works so well 159 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,077 for for these duty cycles. 160 00:06:32,956 --> 00:06:34,415 The chemical battery 161 00:06:34,810 --> 00:06:35,790 typically has 162 00:06:37,210 --> 00:06:40,189 lifetime full charge and discharge cycles of around 163 00:06:40,250 --> 00:06:41,210 3000 cycles. 164 00:06:42,981 --> 00:06:44,490 If you have an electric vehicle that can 165 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:46,236 do 400 miles from a single charge to 166 00:06:46,236 --> 00:06:48,697 do that 3000 times why you have 600000 167 00:06:48,697 --> 00:06:49,197 miles 168 00:06:49,729 --> 00:06:51,500 lifetime range, your battery 169 00:06:52,050 --> 00:06:54,129 sufficient. Right? But if you have a probably 170 00:06:54,129 --> 00:06:56,610 1 racing car, that does, you know, 500 171 00:06:56,610 --> 00:06:57,509 fracking events 172 00:06:58,370 --> 00:07:00,564 in an hour whatever right? Or you have 173 00:07:01,102 --> 00:07:04,458 industrial applications that are very in dynamic duty 174 00:07:04,458 --> 00:07:06,295 cycles, then it's it's a different story. 175 00:07:07,187 --> 00:07:09,649 As the rules of formula 1 changed, the 176 00:07:09,649 --> 00:07:12,112 use of flywheel hybrids became impossible. 177 00:07:12,668 --> 00:07:13,803 But those industrial 178 00:07:14,177 --> 00:07:16,401 applications suggested a new use for the technology. 179 00:07:17,213 --> 00:07:20,164 The construction industry, they're really innovative, and they're 180 00:07:20,164 --> 00:07:23,456 really trying hard to reduce emissions. Right? And 181 00:07:23,514 --> 00:07:26,487 they obviously operate a lot of heavy machinery 182 00:07:27,277 --> 00:07:27,777 over, 183 00:07:28,393 --> 00:07:31,184 you know, 10:12 hours some construction sites of 184 00:07:31,184 --> 00:07:33,336 operate for 24 hours a day. And so 185 00:07:33,336 --> 00:07:36,139 they have a high consumption of fuel of 186 00:07:36,139 --> 00:07:38,367 fossil fuels. And they also have a lot 187 00:07:38,367 --> 00:07:40,674 of emissions that I associated to that. And 188 00:07:40,674 --> 00:07:42,662 then again, a lot of the construction sites 189 00:07:42,662 --> 00:07:44,746 are in our city centers, where we have 190 00:07:44,746 --> 00:07:46,736 local air quality issues. Right? And so, 191 00:07:47,611 --> 00:07:49,601 these guys in the cons... Guys are girls 192 00:07:49,601 --> 00:07:51,693 in the construction industry are are way 193 00:07:52,003 --> 00:07:55,287 very focused on finding ways to reduce their 194 00:07:55,583 --> 00:07:57,731 impact in terms of emissions and in terms 195 00:07:57,731 --> 00:07:58,526 of fuel consumption. 196 00:07:59,574 --> 00:08:00,790 1 of the large 197 00:08:02,197 --> 00:08:03,094 construction companies 198 00:08:04,025 --> 00:08:05,876 in Scotland and 1 of the leading Scottish 199 00:08:06,091 --> 00:08:09,047 construction companies they approached us regarding a construction 200 00:08:09,047 --> 00:08:11,592 site that they had in Edi edinburgh. And 201 00:08:11,592 --> 00:08:13,659 we work together with a company called S 202 00:08:13,818 --> 00:08:15,886 Fund who a power rental company. So they 203 00:08:15,886 --> 00:08:19,237 typically went, diesel chance that's to to the 204 00:08:19,237 --> 00:08:21,244 construction industry. Right? And 205 00:08:21,934 --> 00:08:24,235 we work together to develop a solution of 206 00:08:24,235 --> 00:08:25,922 how they could which use their, 207 00:08:26,481 --> 00:08:28,796 fuel consumption on that side. And on that 208 00:08:28,796 --> 00:08:31,350 side, they basically had 2 tower cranes 2 209 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:35,059 big tower that were working hard. And also 210 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:37,200 a h. So that's a material horse that 211 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,480 goes up and down the side of the 212 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:38,800 building. 213 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,338 This equipment designed to move construction materials around 214 00:08:47,338 --> 00:08:50,197 a job site shares little at first glance 215 00:08:50,197 --> 00:08:51,309 with a formula 1 car. 216 00:08:56,108 --> 00:08:58,103 But beneath the hood, there is a lot 217 00:08:58,103 --> 00:08:58,980 of similarity. 218 00:08:59,553 --> 00:09:02,832 These are ideal examples of dynamic duty cycles 219 00:09:02,887 --> 00:09:05,904 because basically, every time that h goes ups 220 00:09:05,904 --> 00:09:07,651 up and down. There's a big power spike 221 00:09:07,651 --> 00:09:09,573 when it lifts up basically when it drops 222 00:09:09,573 --> 00:09:11,562 down, right, there's no no power required right, 223 00:09:11,642 --> 00:09:13,630 at that's on on on on gravity. 224 00:09:14,346 --> 00:09:16,993 That initial movement mode when when the lift 225 00:09:16,993 --> 00:09:20,029 starts to overcome that initial friction. Right? That's 226 00:09:20,029 --> 00:09:21,867 a big spike. And then as it moves 227 00:09:21,867 --> 00:09:23,385 up the power also a little bit lower. 228 00:09:23,639 --> 00:09:25,155 And the same is true for the for 229 00:09:25,155 --> 00:09:27,470 the tower brain. So whenever the power lifts 230 00:09:27,470 --> 00:09:29,464 up below that initial movement when it lifted 231 00:09:29,464 --> 00:09:31,712 up, it requires a huge amount of power. 232 00:09:31,871 --> 00:09:33,459 And then when it moves around or drops 233 00:09:33,459 --> 00:09:35,206 the load, the power demand is very low. 234 00:09:35,364 --> 00:09:38,222 And so when you when you recall the 235 00:09:38,222 --> 00:09:40,287 power that's being requested from a diesel sensor, 236 00:09:40,699 --> 00:09:42,235 you get a super spiky 237 00:09:42,770 --> 00:09:45,319 powerful profile. You know, constantly spiking up and 238 00:09:45,319 --> 00:09:46,435 then stopping down again? 239 00:09:47,391 --> 00:09:49,621 That poses a problem for equipment users. 240 00:09:50,352 --> 00:09:52,419 To cover the peak demands of a tower 241 00:09:52,419 --> 00:09:53,373 crane or h, 242 00:09:53,930 --> 00:09:56,655 they must either have a high power grid 243 00:09:56,712 --> 00:09:58,722 connection or use a diesel generator. 244 00:09:59,828 --> 00:10:02,641 Those grid connections are hard if not impossible 245 00:10:02,699 --> 00:10:04,852 to get installed at most construction sites. 246 00:10:05,570 --> 00:10:07,963 And a generator must be big enough and 247 00:10:07,963 --> 00:10:10,368 burn enough fuel to hit those peak demands. 248 00:10:10,925 --> 00:10:13,076 This power profile is more dynamic than a 249 00:10:13,076 --> 00:10:15,305 former 1 racing car. Right? This like constantly 250 00:10:15,305 --> 00:10:17,376 sleepy be when the car is working hard. 251 00:10:17,868 --> 00:10:19,697 With this engine is constantly being asked to 252 00:10:19,697 --> 00:10:21,526 go full power and no power, full power, 253 00:10:21,685 --> 00:10:23,593 no power, full power, no power. And, of 254 00:10:23,593 --> 00:10:25,422 course, you know, when you have a least 255 00:10:25,422 --> 00:10:27,341 chance that and you see that sometimes, when 256 00:10:27,341 --> 00:10:28,928 they have to go from either to full 257 00:10:28,928 --> 00:10:31,070 power, sometimes they tough out the black lot 258 00:10:31,070 --> 00:10:33,309 of smoke of un unbalanced fuel, right? The 259 00:10:33,309 --> 00:10:36,269 dual a diesel engine doesn't like that kind 260 00:10:36,269 --> 00:10:37,089 of dynamic 261 00:10:37,549 --> 00:10:40,509 load application. And so what we do, we 262 00:10:40,509 --> 00:10:41,710 we add a flywheel system, 263 00:10:42,443 --> 00:10:44,597 into the mix. And the flywheel is very 264 00:10:44,597 --> 00:10:47,709 good at dampening out these high power spikes. 265 00:10:47,949 --> 00:10:50,679 Right? And as a result, the diesel engine 266 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,179 can run much closer to the average power 267 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,120 consumption on on on on such a construction 268 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:56,279 side. 269 00:10:56,933 --> 00:10:59,240 To put that into some perspective, like, 1 270 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,229 of these tower brands, they might have a 271 00:11:01,229 --> 00:11:03,615 peak power demand of around 200 kilowatts. 272 00:11:04,107 --> 00:11:06,254 But the average power demand might only be 273 00:11:06,254 --> 00:11:08,481 20 kilowatts. Right? So factor of 10. 274 00:11:09,197 --> 00:11:10,946 And so it's it's it's a it's a 275 00:11:10,946 --> 00:11:12,059 huge huge difference. 276 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:16,606 The flywheel can take just enough power from 277 00:11:16,606 --> 00:11:18,275 the generator to set its spinning. 278 00:11:18,831 --> 00:11:21,057 When the crane or h needs a boost 279 00:11:21,057 --> 00:11:23,457 of power to start lifting a load it 280 00:11:23,457 --> 00:11:25,128 draws power from the flywheel. 281 00:11:25,924 --> 00:11:28,551 The flywheel slows, but soon picks up speed 282 00:11:28,551 --> 00:11:31,257 again is the generator or low power grid 283 00:11:31,257 --> 00:11:32,371 connection tops it up. 284 00:11:33,182 --> 00:11:35,966 But because the flywheel is storing energy and 285 00:11:35,966 --> 00:11:38,273 is then deliberately... Able to deliver power on 286 00:11:38,273 --> 00:11:39,386 top of the diesel chips. 287 00:11:39,958 --> 00:11:42,658 You can achieve with a small diesel chances, 288 00:11:42,976 --> 00:11:45,359 the performance of a much, much larger diesel 289 00:11:45,359 --> 00:11:47,424 chances. And if you compare the fuel consumption 290 00:11:47,424 --> 00:11:49,425 of the last hd chance versus the small 291 00:11:49,425 --> 00:11:51,253 1 is our plywood system on, then you 292 00:11:51,253 --> 00:11:53,717 have a massive fuel saving. Typically on the 293 00:11:53,717 --> 00:11:56,594 tower crane, we have usually fuel savings in 294 00:11:56,594 --> 00:11:59,378 the region of 55 percent to 60 percent 295 00:11:59,378 --> 00:12:01,526 at order of Magnitude. So it's it's really 296 00:12:01,526 --> 00:12:02,242 quite significant. 297 00:12:02,893 --> 00:12:05,352 And, I mean, on h, it's even even 298 00:12:05,352 --> 00:12:07,335 more. So we have some h where we 299 00:12:07,335 --> 00:12:09,476 where we choose a fuel consumption by 70, 300 00:12:09,714 --> 00:12:10,587 71 percent. 301 00:12:12,278 --> 00:12:14,914 The built environment contributes to well over a 302 00:12:14,914 --> 00:12:18,030 third of carbon emissions and power used during 303 00:12:18,030 --> 00:12:18,404 construction 304 00:12:18,841 --> 00:12:20,826 accounts for a significant proportion of this. 305 00:12:21,541 --> 00:12:24,320 The construction sector ability to move to electric 306 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,941 power has been hindered by peak demands of 307 00:12:26,941 --> 00:12:28,468 equipment like tower cranes. 308 00:12:29,586 --> 00:12:33,098 By reducing these demands, Du flywheel can slash 309 00:12:33,098 --> 00:12:35,732 the size of generators on sight and eliminate 310 00:12:35,732 --> 00:12:37,896 the need for high our grid connections. 311 00:12:38,769 --> 00:12:40,910 They have been well accepted by the industry 312 00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:42,362 demonstrating their widespread 313 00:12:42,814 --> 00:12:43,052 potential. 314 00:12:44,099 --> 00:12:46,561 Since winning the gold champion engineering matters award, 315 00:12:46,958 --> 00:12:48,491 Du has signed a global 316 00:12:48,865 --> 00:12:51,089 distribution deal with Wolf cra, 1 of the 317 00:12:51,089 --> 00:12:52,995 leading manufacturers of Tower cranes. 318 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,779 Du second entry in the awards demonstrated a 319 00:12:57,779 --> 00:13:00,085 different application for flywheel technology. 320 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,788 In Northern Ireland, they are being used not 321 00:13:02,788 --> 00:13:05,353 to smooth power demand, but power supply. 322 00:13:06,789 --> 00:13:08,246 We have been doing this now 323 00:13:08,703 --> 00:13:11,016 working on climate now for, say 16 years. 324 00:13:11,256 --> 00:13:11,894 Right? I mean, 325 00:13:12,851 --> 00:13:15,684 and we still get people phone up with 326 00:13:15,825 --> 00:13:17,184 applications that we have never thought about. 327 00:13:18,705 --> 00:13:19,524 We got 328 00:13:20,225 --> 00:13:23,438 approached by a company called Iso, about problem 329 00:13:23,438 --> 00:13:25,910 that they were having with turbines in in 330 00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:26,628 Northern Ireland. 331 00:13:28,622 --> 00:13:31,573 Buyers understands the possible uses of flywheel wheels 332 00:13:31,573 --> 00:13:32,530 as well as anyone. 333 00:13:33,183 --> 00:13:35,896 But even he didn't see this potential application. 334 00:13:36,215 --> 00:13:40,535 I'm a mechanical engineer, and III 335 00:13:40,535 --> 00:13:42,439 looked at a lot of different applications with 336 00:13:42,439 --> 00:13:45,454 dynamic duty cycles. Right? From formula 1 cast 337 00:13:45,454 --> 00:13:46,192 to ex 338 00:13:46,644 --> 00:13:49,360 to buses driving in city centers Think everybody 339 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,350 can understand that these kind of applications are 340 00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:53,737 dynamic where constantly the powers high end and 341 00:13:53,737 --> 00:13:55,727 low right, that we buses accelerating was slowing 342 00:13:55,727 --> 00:13:58,128 down. If the next incubator loading a truck 343 00:13:58,128 --> 00:14:00,697 gets constantly moving its very vision. But 344 00:14:01,310 --> 00:14:02,822 to be honest, III 345 00:14:02,822 --> 00:14:04,754 drove passed a lot of turbines in my 346 00:14:04,754 --> 00:14:06,434 life, and I never thought that the turbine, 347 00:14:06,595 --> 00:14:08,754 is a dynamic application. Right? Because when you 348 00:14:08,754 --> 00:14:09,794 look at the turbine, 349 00:14:10,514 --> 00:14:11,975 the speed of the blades 350 00:14:12,288 --> 00:14:14,433 seems to be pretty constant most of the 351 00:14:14,433 --> 00:14:17,531 time. And the speed is also relatively constant. 352 00:14:18,484 --> 00:14:21,197 But, of course, power is related to speed 353 00:14:21,197 --> 00:14:23,736 times torque, and the torque on a wind 354 00:14:23,736 --> 00:14:25,798 turbine is created by the wind pressing against 355 00:14:25,798 --> 00:14:27,570 the blade. And, of course, the wind is 356 00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:29,490 not constant on a wind turbine. It's dusting 357 00:14:29,490 --> 00:14:31,169 up and down. And so when you look 358 00:14:31,169 --> 00:14:32,529 at a power output 359 00:14:33,169 --> 00:14:35,498 on a on a wind turbine, and the 360 00:14:35,498 --> 00:14:38,193 power profile is very dynamic. You know, it's 361 00:14:38,193 --> 00:14:40,571 it's, again, more dynamic than a former 1 362 00:14:40,571 --> 00:14:42,807 racing car. Right? And that's maybe not so 363 00:14:42,807 --> 00:14:44,558 obvious in in in in in the first 364 00:14:44,558 --> 00:14:44,797 place. 365 00:14:46,071 --> 00:14:47,663 Aaron D is Ceo of, 366 00:14:48,459 --> 00:14:50,131 the company that made that approach. 367 00:14:50,864 --> 00:14:53,421 It supplies software to the energy sector and 368 00:14:53,421 --> 00:14:56,238 works closely with Ever run an energy management 369 00:14:56,297 --> 00:14:56,617 company. 370 00:14:57,176 --> 00:14:58,315 We provide software 371 00:14:58,788 --> 00:15:00,857 mainly in the in the wind industry for 372 00:15:00,857 --> 00:15:02,210 monitoring of wind turbines. 373 00:15:03,086 --> 00:15:04,916 We also provide a lot of services to 374 00:15:05,553 --> 00:15:07,964 unlimited to kind of a sister company, 2 375 00:15:08,284 --> 00:15:10,125 Liaison, and and they provide the all our 376 00:15:10,125 --> 00:15:12,764 maintenance for, a lot of the wind turbines 377 00:15:13,245 --> 00:15:14,284 in Northern Ireland. 378 00:15:15,578 --> 00:15:18,155 Many of the wind turbines that ever maintains 379 00:15:18,215 --> 00:15:18,854 are aging. 380 00:15:19,573 --> 00:15:21,830 They are still well capable of delivering power 381 00:15:22,064 --> 00:15:24,319 but as more and more renewables come online 382 00:15:24,457 --> 00:15:27,569 it's become necessary to more closely synchronize their 383 00:15:27,569 --> 00:15:28,686 power output to the grid. 384 00:15:29,577 --> 00:15:33,577 The network operator, N or Northern Ireland electricity 385 00:15:33,873 --> 00:15:37,055 had begun to enforce regulations demanding a very 386 00:15:37,055 --> 00:15:39,062 tight power factor for these turbines. 387 00:15:40,178 --> 00:15:43,289 Everyone, we're tasked with making the older turbines 388 00:15:43,289 --> 00:15:43,449 compliant. 389 00:15:44,166 --> 00:15:45,921 A lot of New York turbines could simply 390 00:15:45,921 --> 00:15:47,516 you could just go in and could modify 391 00:15:47,516 --> 00:15:47,995 those turbines. 392 00:15:48,885 --> 00:15:50,895 Change a few settings, and they would be 393 00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:52,622 compliant with the new requirements. 394 00:15:53,655 --> 00:15:56,143 With these older ones, they were never conceived 395 00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:57,472 with the requirements in mind. 396 00:15:58,044 --> 00:15:59,804 So the... You... A lot of you can 397 00:15:59,804 --> 00:16:02,605 even get comm to the equipment. You know, 398 00:16:02,764 --> 00:16:02,924 So, 399 00:16:03,804 --> 00:16:05,324 initially, we had to provide columns to it. 400 00:16:05,485 --> 00:16:07,896 We had to gwen reverse engineer, you know, 401 00:16:08,215 --> 00:16:09,035 all of the protocols, 402 00:16:10,051 --> 00:16:12,287 and then, remotely communicate to those star turbines? 403 00:16:12,766 --> 00:16:15,320 The turbines had been designed in the early 404 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,360 stages of the renewables revolution. They could not 405 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,985 meet the requirements N I headset. 1 of 406 00:16:20,985 --> 00:16:22,758 those requirements was to control 407 00:16:23,149 --> 00:16:27,064 the par factor on these wind turbines. And 408 00:16:27,064 --> 00:16:28,742 there really wasn't a way that we could 409 00:16:28,742 --> 00:16:30,794 do it within the requirements. So 410 00:16:31,393 --> 00:16:32,989 the requirements were that it it would also 411 00:16:32,989 --> 00:16:33,708 be fast acting, 412 00:16:34,506 --> 00:16:37,060 which would mean that, you know, was Anna 413 00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:39,135 e, that the D o sent the command. 414 00:16:39,866 --> 00:16:41,614 That it would have to respond within a 415 00:16:41,614 --> 00:16:43,679 certain amount of time, to that request. 416 00:16:44,633 --> 00:16:47,730 And and that really just using the installed 417 00:16:47,730 --> 00:16:49,081 equipment, that just wasn't possible. 418 00:16:50,211 --> 00:16:53,102 To maintain the stability of the grid, N 419 00:16:53,319 --> 00:16:55,790 sends requests to supply electricity at a very 420 00:16:55,790 --> 00:16:58,516 narrow power factor. This is measured from 0 421 00:16:58,516 --> 00:16:58,915 to 1. 422 00:16:59,712 --> 00:17:01,787 There's a certain load. The equipment is putting 423 00:17:01,787 --> 00:17:02,266 on the grid, 424 00:17:03,782 --> 00:17:04,281 and 425 00:17:04,834 --> 00:17:06,589 was that's how much true part. How much 426 00:17:06,589 --> 00:17:07,648 of it's actually, 427 00:17:08,025 --> 00:17:08,823 generating in par. 428 00:17:09,701 --> 00:17:11,536 But due to the fact that the current 429 00:17:12,269 --> 00:17:14,109 the voltage me maybe O sync in an 430 00:17:14,190 --> 00:17:15,069 Ac current, 431 00:17:16,109 --> 00:17:16,609 that 432 00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:18,349 that you may not be getting all the 433 00:17:18,349 --> 00:17:20,289 par because 1 cons are sort of all 434 00:17:20,349 --> 00:17:20,509 out. 435 00:17:21,802 --> 00:17:22,119 And, 436 00:17:22,754 --> 00:17:24,285 depending on hai far, I think they are 437 00:17:24,419 --> 00:17:26,639 that's the sort of ratio that you're getting 438 00:17:26,639 --> 00:17:29,098 there. So a... You know, for the east 439 00:17:29,098 --> 00:17:31,262 particular turbines, they they had to be within 440 00:17:31,262 --> 00:17:32,320 not 0.95 441 00:17:33,015 --> 00:17:34,051 to not 0.98, 442 00:17:34,608 --> 00:17:36,361 which is, you know, very close to getting 443 00:17:36,361 --> 00:17:37,890 most of par, I'd Out do it. 444 00:17:39,245 --> 00:17:40,542 But, you know, with 445 00:17:41,157 --> 00:17:42,990 induction motors and generators, 446 00:17:43,548 --> 00:17:45,552 generally, they will none a lot lower, 447 00:17:46,268 --> 00:17:48,573 than not, there maybe from 0.6 to, you 448 00:17:48,573 --> 00:17:49,448 know, 0.7. 449 00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:53,355 And you need Dandy to install capacitors, 450 00:17:54,465 --> 00:17:57,003 which rethink the voltage in the current together, 451 00:17:58,192 --> 00:18:00,230 and and bring that more towards 452 00:18:01,226 --> 00:18:02,981 unity, which is 1 par factor. 453 00:18:11,768 --> 00:18:14,078 Capacitors would allow the wind turbines to sync 454 00:18:14,078 --> 00:18:16,070 with the grid, but they could not meet 455 00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:17,742 all of N n requirements. 456 00:18:19,907 --> 00:18:22,209 You could fix this problem with capacitors essentially. 457 00:18:22,605 --> 00:18:24,827 The trouble was, you know, the fast acting 458 00:18:24,827 --> 00:18:25,145 bit of it, 459 00:18:26,097 --> 00:18:26,653 and also, 460 00:18:27,367 --> 00:18:29,133 not only that but it had to be 461 00:18:29,133 --> 00:18:31,290 more precise. So, you know, if if the 462 00:18:31,290 --> 00:18:32,749 the d was requesting, 463 00:18:33,447 --> 00:18:34,326 not 0.96. 464 00:18:35,538 --> 00:18:37,047 Then, you know, you have to hit that 465 00:18:37,047 --> 00:18:38,557 mark. You have to head it pretty accurately. 466 00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:41,337 Capacitors got lots of headaches like friends, you 467 00:18:41,337 --> 00:18:43,481 know, whenever you discharge, you, you know, you 468 00:18:43,481 --> 00:18:45,563 can't bring it back on again, so straight 469 00:18:45,563 --> 00:18:45,803 away. 470 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,073 You know, so there's lots of inherent problems. 471 00:18:49,232 --> 00:18:51,646 You could manage that with more capacitors, but 472 00:18:51,784 --> 00:18:53,778 the solution was never going to be the 473 00:18:53,778 --> 00:18:55,788 most passionate efficient solution. Very early at home. 474 00:18:55,868 --> 00:18:57,466 We decided that that was not the way 475 00:18:57,466 --> 00:19:00,103 to go in regards to managing this problem. 476 00:19:01,701 --> 00:19:03,874 Explored a range of solutions. But none of 477 00:19:03,874 --> 00:19:05,652 them would allow them to meet N nr 478 00:19:05,711 --> 00:19:06,830 requirements efficiently. 479 00:19:08,348 --> 00:19:10,585 The company had already been talking to Du, 480 00:19:10,905 --> 00:19:13,870 then known as punch about power smoothing. They 481 00:19:13,870 --> 00:19:16,580 had pictured using the flywheel to ensure that 482 00:19:16,580 --> 00:19:19,290 the output from the wind turbines remained steady. 483 00:19:20,103 --> 00:19:21,460 Regardless of weather conditions. 484 00:19:22,179 --> 00:19:24,036 But eyes on soon realized 485 00:19:24,414 --> 00:19:26,490 that they could also be used to meet 486 00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:27,070 N 487 00:19:27,448 --> 00:19:28,725 power factor requirements. 488 00:19:29,379 --> 00:19:30,977 The first time we reached out the punch. 489 00:19:31,217 --> 00:19:32,975 It wasn't actually about the par factor I 490 00:19:32,975 --> 00:19:34,413 little... That was part of the conversation. 491 00:19:35,292 --> 00:19:37,825 It was also in relation to smoothing the 492 00:19:38,184 --> 00:19:39,865 par that's actually to distribute it to the 493 00:19:39,865 --> 00:19:40,024 grid. 494 00:19:41,544 --> 00:19:43,865 And really that's where punch were very unique 495 00:19:43,865 --> 00:19:46,160 because they have a flywheel product 496 00:19:46,994 --> 00:19:49,935 that allows you to absorb energy and then 497 00:19:49,935 --> 00:19:51,684 dispatch it very, very quickly. 498 00:19:52,638 --> 00:19:53,592 And and generally, 499 00:19:54,149 --> 00:19:55,634 without any sort of where either 500 00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:57,744 We, approach 501 00:19:58,143 --> 00:19:59,974 punch fly in order to 502 00:20:01,089 --> 00:20:02,066 provide a solution 503 00:20:02,522 --> 00:20:05,003 for the smoothing of it but they also... 504 00:20:05,162 --> 00:20:07,387 The Centimeters equipment would actually then be able 505 00:20:07,387 --> 00:20:09,771 to meet the requirements of the par factor 506 00:20:09,771 --> 00:20:12,871 correction part of it, which was just fantastic. 507 00:20:13,844 --> 00:20:16,001 The team at Du ray worked with eyes 508 00:20:16,001 --> 00:20:18,318 to adapt the flywheel software to allow them 509 00:20:18,318 --> 00:20:20,476 to quickly shape the power factor of the 510 00:20:20,476 --> 00:20:23,596 turbines, in line with N nr requirements. What 511 00:20:23,596 --> 00:20:24,945 we have ended up with it with is 512 00:20:24,945 --> 00:20:27,802 a solution that is there to beat the 513 00:20:27,802 --> 00:20:29,175 grid requirements, but also 514 00:20:29,549 --> 00:20:30,604 can be extended 515 00:20:30,993 --> 00:20:32,269 to install flywheel, 516 00:20:32,747 --> 00:20:34,740 which will then help move the par going 517 00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:36,016 on the onto the grid, 518 00:20:37,052 --> 00:20:39,259 which, you know, sets us up for the 519 00:20:39,378 --> 00:20:42,155 nature because, the the turbine types are are 520 00:20:42,155 --> 00:20:44,774 quite wall old and they don't have the 521 00:20:44,774 --> 00:20:46,598 same control of the active afar. 522 00:20:47,884 --> 00:20:48,282 That's 523 00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:51,069 you know, the Ones do. So having that 524 00:20:51,069 --> 00:20:53,856 ability to, not only plug control ability for 525 00:20:53,856 --> 00:20:56,380 a power factor, but also in regard to 526 00:20:56,499 --> 00:20:57,396 the output 527 00:20:57,929 --> 00:21:00,869 of the, wind car turbines. I mean, that's 528 00:21:00,869 --> 00:21:03,253 that's just gm changing because that puts us 529 00:21:03,253 --> 00:21:04,843 at a level that, you know, 530 00:21:05,494 --> 00:21:08,119 for the output we are equivalent to a 531 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,301 modern day turbine in regard to good compliance 532 00:21:11,301 --> 00:21:12,096 and and quality. 533 00:21:14,899 --> 00:21:17,136 There's nothing simple when it comes to working 534 00:21:17,136 --> 00:21:18,095 with the electric grid, 535 00:21:18,814 --> 00:21:20,572 but taken on those terms, 536 00:21:21,132 --> 00:21:22,730 this was as simple as it gets. 537 00:21:23,463 --> 00:21:25,611 Of the solution is is it easily plug 538 00:21:25,611 --> 00:21:26,327 and play as you get, 539 00:21:27,042 --> 00:21:29,270 when you're dealing you know, with that type 540 00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:30,167 of equipment 541 00:21:30,875 --> 00:21:33,337 it's that's lots of current ability for coming 542 00:21:33,337 --> 00:21:34,870 from a generator 543 00:21:35,403 --> 00:21:37,643 on a wind. So you're looking maybe, you 544 00:21:37,643 --> 00:21:40,503 know, 7 800 amps that we're talking about 545 00:21:40,503 --> 00:21:42,887 there. So, yeah, all the cable sizes are 546 00:21:42,887 --> 00:21:45,509 massive and we're dealing with the significant industrial 547 00:21:45,509 --> 00:21:45,747 equipment. 548 00:21:46,798 --> 00:21:49,828 But after that, it really is this... Matter 549 00:21:49,828 --> 00:21:50,865 of just collecting up, 550 00:21:51,822 --> 00:21:52,801 installing a few, 551 00:21:53,258 --> 00:21:55,571 measurement devices so that we can control it 552 00:21:55,571 --> 00:21:55,651 all. 553 00:21:56,780 --> 00:21:59,326 And everything else is is is self contained 554 00:21:59,326 --> 00:21:59,723 within, 555 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:01,155 the flavor unit. 556 00:22:03,382 --> 00:22:04,598 Has adopted the technology 557 00:22:05,067 --> 00:22:07,765 across the wind turbines, they and ever support. 558 00:22:09,273 --> 00:22:12,052 So overall, I think we've installed about a 559 00:22:12,052 --> 00:22:14,532 hundred and 40 panels at this point in 560 00:22:14,532 --> 00:22:17,004 time, we're still installing some at the minute. 561 00:22:17,961 --> 00:22:19,397 But at the minute, we're around a hundred 562 00:22:19,397 --> 00:22:20,913 hundred and 40. So it's this is no 563 00:22:20,913 --> 00:22:22,906 significant amount, of wind turbines. 564 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,839 There's only around, 565 00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:27,500 600 wind turbines in 566 00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:30,299 saint wind turbines in Northern islands. So, 567 00:22:30,679 --> 00:22:32,528 you know, a a significant percentage of them. 568 00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:37,627 And the flywheel wheels aren't just allowing these 569 00:22:37,627 --> 00:22:40,269 turbines to meet N nr power factor requirements. 570 00:22:41,145 --> 00:22:44,408 They also smooth the overall output as winds 571 00:22:44,408 --> 00:22:45,920 rise, full and gas. 572 00:22:48,238 --> 00:22:49,667 Well we shouldn't forget is there's 2. There's 573 00:22:49,667 --> 00:22:50,167 2 574 00:22:50,540 --> 00:22:52,287 solutions to this here, So there's r factor 575 00:22:52,287 --> 00:22:55,243 1, which is fast acting power factor, which 576 00:22:55,243 --> 00:22:57,416 isn't really available with any other sort of 577 00:22:57,554 --> 00:22:58,054 technology. 578 00:22:59,306 --> 00:23:02,833 And then there's also the smoothing of the 579 00:23:02,833 --> 00:23:03,392 power output. 580 00:23:05,310 --> 00:23:07,548 With renewables and and renewable generation, that is 581 00:23:07,548 --> 00:23:09,466 1 of the problems that you have with 582 00:23:09,466 --> 00:23:10,765 it is it's very baggy 583 00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:12,775 It's, you know, it's not always 584 00:23:13,153 --> 00:23:14,189 great to have a 585 00:23:14,907 --> 00:23:15,705 Put which is, you know, 586 00:23:17,220 --> 00:23:18,735 double m might 1 minute and and half 587 00:23:18,735 --> 00:23:20,591 of it the next the next second 588 00:23:20,982 --> 00:23:22,415 you have enough equipment that it sort of 589 00:23:22,415 --> 00:23:23,211 averages itself out. 590 00:23:24,165 --> 00:23:24,665 But 591 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,632 if you if you don't have that on 592 00:23:26,632 --> 00:23:28,957 1 particular subs station, you know, you've only 593 00:23:28,957 --> 00:23:30,095 have 3 594 00:23:30,712 --> 00:23:31,690 wind turbines, 595 00:23:32,227 --> 00:23:32,865 connected to that, 596 00:23:34,221 --> 00:23:36,056 substitution. You know, there's there's a lot of 597 00:23:36,056 --> 00:23:37,810 problems with the up and down of the 598 00:23:37,810 --> 00:23:39,258 par. That you get there, the, you know, 599 00:23:39,417 --> 00:23:41,086 so having a device like this, which can 600 00:23:41,086 --> 00:23:43,870 smooth out that generation, it just makes it 601 00:23:43,870 --> 00:23:45,063 the par more usable. 602 00:23:46,096 --> 00:23:47,948 And that problem exists 603 00:23:48,339 --> 00:23:50,177 direct towards where there's renewable energy. 604 00:23:53,692 --> 00:23:56,203 The flywheel is 1 of our most basic 605 00:23:56,416 --> 00:23:56,892 technologies. 606 00:23:57,684 --> 00:23:59,903 Pot have use them for hundreds if not 607 00:23:59,903 --> 00:24:02,200 thousands of years the smoother spin of their 608 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:02,517 wheels. 609 00:24:03,009 --> 00:24:05,007 But today, they're playing a new role in 610 00:24:05,007 --> 00:24:08,283 the energy transition. They are slashing power demands 611 00:24:08,283 --> 00:24:11,055 on construction sites by as much as 90 612 00:24:11,253 --> 00:24:14,114 ascent by delivering peak output from a trickle 613 00:24:14,114 --> 00:24:14,670 of supply. 614 00:24:15,465 --> 00:24:17,769 And they're making older wind turbines fit for 615 00:24:17,769 --> 00:24:21,228 the future. While smoothing out their output. Du 616 00:24:21,285 --> 00:24:24,468 is putting an entirely new spin on an 617 00:24:24,468 --> 00:24:25,207 ancient technology. 618 00:24:40,184 --> 00:24:41,882 Entries for the 20 25 619 00:24:42,022 --> 00:24:44,595 engineering matters awards are now open. You can 620 00:24:44,595 --> 00:24:46,755 find all the details on how to enter 621 00:24:46,755 --> 00:24:50,515 at engineering matters dot re dot media slash 622 00:24:50,515 --> 00:24:50,835 awards. 623 00:25:01,651 --> 00:25:03,716 Engineering matters is a production of Re media. 624 00:25:04,193 --> 00:25:06,655 This episode was written and produced by Will 625 00:25:06,814 --> 00:25:09,593 North. Your hosts were me, Johnny Dow and 626 00:25:09,673 --> 00:25:10,149 R Owen. 627 00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:12,871 Sound engineering by Ross Mc mcpherson, 628 00:25:13,349 --> 00:25:16,478 siri supervision by John Young, and the highly 629 00:25:16,615 --> 00:25:19,404 engineered mass that conserve our momentum is Rory 630 00:25:19,563 --> 00:25:19,802 Harris. 631 00:25:20,853 --> 00:25:23,001 Thank you for listening. You can find engineering 632 00:25:23,001 --> 00:25:25,548 matters on all podcast apps on our website, 633 00:25:26,026 --> 00:25:28,197 engineering matters dot ruby dot media 634 00:25:28,508 --> 00:25:29,303 and on Linkedin.