1 00:00:00,022 --> 00:00:01,972 Christina Shenvi: That's great that your family does not pay 2 00:00:01,972 --> 00:00:02,842 you to hang out with them. 3 00:00:02,842 --> 00:00:03,847 I would worry if they did. 4 00:00:04,547 --> 00:00:05,947 Sam: But what a cool job that would be. 5 00:00:05,947 --> 00:00:06,617 Christina Shenvi: But what a cool job. 6 00:00:06,617 --> 00:00:09,512 Hey, if someone would pay me to hang out with my family, that'd be awesome. 7 00:00:11,562 --> 00:00:14,652 Sam: Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Amplify. 8 00:00:14,652 --> 00:00:17,987 I am your host , Sam Ashoo, and I wanna thank you for being a 9 00:00:17,987 --> 00:00:21,797 listener and encourage you to rate us in whatever podcast app you're 10 00:00:21,797 --> 00:00:25,097 listening in so that we can get the word out there to more listeners. 11 00:00:25,427 --> 00:00:28,531 And I also wanna share with you that there are only a few days left in EB 12 00:00:28,531 --> 00:00:34,595 Medicine's special $1 for a seven day subscription to any or even all three 13 00:00:34,805 --> 00:00:36,875 of the journals on eb medicine.net. 14 00:00:37,145 --> 00:00:38,375 That's a great deal. 15 00:00:38,555 --> 00:00:41,285 If you're not already a subscriber, go there and take advantage of 16 00:00:41,285 --> 00:00:42,515 this special and check us out. 17 00:00:42,785 --> 00:00:47,195 You will not believe how many courses and how many issues and how many 18 00:00:47,195 --> 00:00:49,265 hours of CME you will have access to. 19 00:00:49,445 --> 00:00:53,465 It's an absolutely wonderful time saving and critical to 20 00:00:53,465 --> 00:00:55,355 your practice subscription. 21 00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:58,355 Do yourself a favor and take advantage of that special today. 22 00:00:58,625 --> 00:01:00,665 And now let's jump into this month's episode. 23 00:01:03,150 --> 00:01:04,380 Christina Shenvi: Nice to see you again, Sam. 24 00:01:04,380 --> 00:01:07,890 My name's Christina Shenvi and I'm an associate professor of Emergency 25 00:01:07,890 --> 00:01:09,180 Medicine at UNC Chapel Hill. 26 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:10,570 Sam: Fantastic. 27 00:01:10,690 --> 00:01:12,100 Thanks for being on the show, Christina. 28 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:17,470 Today we're talking about focus, but before we dive into that, this 29 00:01:17,470 --> 00:01:20,950 is your first time on the show and I wanna let listeners know what a 30 00:01:20,950 --> 00:01:22,900 fantastically interesting person you are. 31 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:27,475 So, in addition to being in clinical emergency medicine, you 32 00:01:27,475 --> 00:01:30,025 have a lot of other interests. 33 00:01:30,355 --> 00:01:33,205 One of the biggest ones is geriatric emergency medicine. 34 00:01:33,205 --> 00:01:34,165 Tell me more about that. 35 00:01:34,865 --> 00:01:38,892 Christina Shenvi: That's right and having a lot of different projects in the air 36 00:01:38,892 --> 00:01:42,882 or balls that I'm juggling at one time is what got me really interested in 37 00:01:42,882 --> 00:01:48,102 time management and then focus and how we focus our attention and what we do. 38 00:01:48,852 --> 00:01:53,142 One of the hats I wear is in Geriatric EM where I work with the geriatric ED 39 00:01:53,142 --> 00:01:58,242 collaborative to help improve geriatric EM care around the country and now doing 40 00:01:58,242 --> 00:01:59,802 a lot more internationally as well. 41 00:02:00,292 --> 00:02:04,882 Some of the other hats are in education and educational leadership 42 00:02:04,882 --> 00:02:06,322 as well as faculty development. 43 00:02:06,712 --> 00:02:11,302 And then I have a lot of other side gigs or side hustles that keep life interesting 44 00:02:11,302 --> 00:02:16,462 and one of those is in time management, and I got interested in that because 45 00:02:16,462 --> 00:02:21,682 time management isn't something we do on the side, it's how we do everything. 46 00:02:22,132 --> 00:02:27,082 And so in order to be productive to do more of what we care about, I 47 00:02:27,082 --> 00:02:31,012 got really interested in some of the science behind how we spend our time. 48 00:02:31,042 --> 00:02:33,982 The psychology of things like procrastination and focus. 49 00:02:34,402 --> 00:02:38,007 And I created an online course all about time management. 50 00:02:38,707 --> 00:02:39,307 Sam: Wow. 51 00:02:39,802 --> 00:02:43,282 And somehow you're using all of that information for your 52 00:02:43,282 --> 00:02:45,172 multiple interests as well. 53 00:02:45,452 --> 00:02:47,492 And it must be working because you're quite successful. 54 00:02:47,492 --> 00:02:49,502 You have your own podcast as well, correct? 55 00:02:49,757 --> 00:02:51,077 Christina Shenvi: Yep, I run a podcast. 56 00:02:51,107 --> 00:02:54,827 You know, I can say that it's the best Geriatric EM podcast in the 57 00:02:54,827 --> 00:02:58,517 world because it is in fact the only Geriatric EM podcast in the world. 58 00:02:58,757 --> 00:03:02,350 But also I have the privilege of interviewing a lot of experts in 59 00:03:02,350 --> 00:03:05,740 the field and love to share that information with the listeners. 60 00:03:06,430 --> 00:03:07,300 Sam: Fantastic. 61 00:03:07,490 --> 00:03:11,300 Well, in addition to being an accomplished physician, speaker, 62 00:03:11,330 --> 00:03:17,250 and educator, tell me what got you interested in time management and focus. 63 00:03:17,950 --> 00:03:21,040 Christina Shenvi: Well, for about five years I was directing an 64 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:26,300 office at UNC that supported our 800 medical students academically 65 00:03:26,740 --> 00:03:31,720 So I was working with a lot of students on how to study, how to work well, 66 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,680 and a lot of it came down to these challenges of focus and time management. 67 00:03:35,710 --> 00:03:38,830 They would get distracted or they would put things off, or they 68 00:03:38,830 --> 00:03:40,540 didn't know how to prioritize. 69 00:03:41,155 --> 00:03:42,295 What to work on. 70 00:03:42,565 --> 00:03:47,328 And so I did hours and hours of coaching, hundreds of students, one-on-one, and 71 00:03:47,328 --> 00:03:51,498 then I started putting it together and how can I make this into a workshop 72 00:03:51,498 --> 00:03:53,118 or a course that I can teach them? 73 00:03:53,698 --> 00:03:59,598 And then I started talking about it at national conferences, and it 74 00:03:59,598 --> 00:04:01,398 seemed to really resonate with people. 75 00:04:02,098 --> 00:04:06,508 And I got asked by a physician up in Canada to create a four 76 00:04:06,508 --> 00:04:08,638 week course for her faculty. 77 00:04:08,998 --> 00:04:12,598 And so that grew into then something that I've run at many different 78 00:04:12,598 --> 00:04:15,218 institutions as well as run on my own. 79 00:04:15,278 --> 00:04:18,628 And then I built it out into an online course. 80 00:04:18,688 --> 00:04:24,428 So got interested in it through that pathway, but really just love working 81 00:04:24,428 --> 00:04:30,188 with people and trying to help them get more fulfillment in what they do. 82 00:04:30,188 --> 00:04:34,193 It's not about like, here's a calendar, here's a scheduling spreadsheet, 83 00:04:34,193 --> 00:04:35,873 here's how to track your time. 84 00:04:36,053 --> 00:04:39,743 I mean, those can be useful tools, but it's really the punchline 85 00:04:39,743 --> 00:04:44,723 is it's about managing your mind first, and then managing your time 86 00:04:44,723 --> 00:04:46,463 and your attention and your focus. 87 00:04:47,033 --> 00:04:49,973 Sam: And is this always specific to people in medicine or 88 00:04:49,973 --> 00:04:51,323 people in all walks of life? 89 00:04:51,623 --> 00:04:54,113 Christina Shenvi: I've worked with mostly physicians, but also 90 00:04:54,113 --> 00:04:55,643 other high performing individuals. 91 00:04:55,643 --> 00:04:58,883 So the focus is on people who are professionals, high performing, want 92 00:04:58,883 --> 00:05:04,283 to do more of what matters, but also want to have time to travel or spend 93 00:05:04,283 --> 00:05:06,083 with their kids or do other things. 94 00:05:06,783 --> 00:05:10,668 Sam: And when you're talking about trying to find time to do the things 95 00:05:10,738 --> 00:05:15,513 that you want to do, this can be career or non-career oriented. 96 00:05:16,357 --> 00:05:16,987 Christina Shenvi: Correct. 97 00:05:17,077 --> 00:05:17,932 The skillset is the same. 98 00:05:18,632 --> 00:05:19,112 Sam: Awesome. 99 00:05:19,322 --> 00:05:19,712 Awesome. 100 00:05:19,922 --> 00:05:24,542 And when we talk about it to an audience of, say, emergency medicine physicians who 101 00:05:24,542 --> 00:05:28,732 are listening today or perhaps residents, people in training, we've also got some 102 00:05:28,732 --> 00:05:30,658 people who are other ki nds of clinicians. 103 00:05:30,658 --> 00:05:35,315 There are PAs and nurse practitioners all kind of trying to juggle a busy clinical 104 00:05:35,315 --> 00:05:40,465 practice maybe in training and then perhaps married, perhaps have children, 105 00:05:40,465 --> 00:05:42,415 perhaps have other outside interests. 106 00:05:42,685 --> 00:05:48,565 How is it that someone goes about trying to prioritize or categorize all of that 107 00:05:48,565 --> 00:05:53,125 in their life when they're talking about things like focusing on what to do next? 108 00:05:53,825 --> 00:05:54,145 Christina Shenvi: Yes. 109 00:05:54,145 --> 00:05:59,032 Well, here is a framework that I like to use when I'm thinking about focus. 110 00:05:59,182 --> 00:06:01,612 Now we can't cover everything in time management here in 111 00:06:01,612 --> 00:06:02,802 one hour or one podcast. 112 00:06:02,802 --> 00:06:08,868 But this topic of focus, just getting this down, can really be a good entry 113 00:06:08,868 --> 00:06:11,538 point into making a lot of other changes. 114 00:06:11,808 --> 00:06:14,028 So here's my framework for thinking about focus. 115 00:06:14,298 --> 00:06:17,578 It is prioritize, strategize, and focus. 116 00:06:17,578 --> 00:06:20,862 So we can walk through that and kind of unpack it a little bit. 117 00:06:20,882 --> 00:06:21,172 Sam: yeah. 118 00:06:21,312 --> 00:06:24,622 Christina Shenvi: Prioritizing means first, are you doing the right things? 119 00:06:24,777 --> 00:06:27,567 Are you doing the things that matter to you, or are you spending 120 00:06:27,567 --> 00:06:29,787 a lot of time on low value things? 121 00:06:29,847 --> 00:06:35,277 The Pareto concept, the 80 20 concept of, you know, spend 80% of the time on that 122 00:06:35,307 --> 00:06:40,971 20% that really matters the most instead of kind of spending most of our time on 123 00:06:40,971 --> 00:06:47,433 the 20% that doesn't matter . So, first prioritizing, and this can take the form 124 00:06:47,463 --> 00:06:51,213 of stepping back and saying, all right, what are all those things that I'm doing? 125 00:06:51,213 --> 00:06:52,713 First, just list them all out. 126 00:06:53,418 --> 00:06:54,708 I'm doing clinical shifts. 127 00:06:54,738 --> 00:06:56,988 I'm running this you know, I'll list some of them for me. 128 00:06:56,988 --> 00:06:58,641 I run a program called Flagship. 129 00:06:58,641 --> 00:07:01,221 That's a nine month faculty development program. 130 00:07:01,491 --> 00:07:03,441 I co-direct the ACEP teaching fellowship. 131 00:07:03,471 --> 00:07:07,041 I'm speaking at these coming, you know, 10 things in the next three months. 132 00:07:07,381 --> 00:07:11,101 I have four kids and I have various things that they're doing that I want 133 00:07:11,101 --> 00:07:14,641 to be involved in or that I need to drop them off, you know, and, and do. 134 00:07:15,341 --> 00:07:18,551 So these are first, just list all the things that you're doing. 135 00:07:18,901 --> 00:07:24,261 And one framework I like to use when it comes to prioritization is the framework 136 00:07:24,261 --> 00:07:28,671 called Ikigai, which has become more popular these days, but it's the idea, 137 00:07:28,671 --> 00:07:34,891 if you can imagine a Venn diagram of what you love, what you're good at, 138 00:07:35,281 --> 00:07:39,481 what the world needs, and what you're being paid for or can be paid for. 139 00:07:39,721 --> 00:07:42,066 So think about that Venn diagram with overlap. 140 00:07:42,516 --> 00:07:47,213 And what I like to do is then map onto it all those things 141 00:07:47,213 --> 00:07:48,533 that I listed that I'm doing. 142 00:07:48,743 --> 00:07:50,386 So some of them fit right in the middle. 143 00:07:50,436 --> 00:07:51,136 I love it. 144 00:07:51,696 --> 00:07:52,556 The world needs it. 145 00:07:52,556 --> 00:07:56,236 Meaning like it's making an impact or it's important, it's making a difference. 146 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:57,196 So I love it. 147 00:07:57,196 --> 00:07:58,066 The world needs it. 148 00:07:58,096 --> 00:07:58,966 I'm good at it. 149 00:07:59,056 --> 00:08:00,796 I'm, you know, working in my strengths. 150 00:08:00,796 --> 00:08:04,726 I find that flow state when I'm working on it and I'm being paid for it. 151 00:08:04,756 --> 00:08:07,966 That is the perfect center where everything aligns. 152 00:08:09,286 --> 00:08:13,006 I wanna do more things that align with all those circles. 153 00:08:13,426 --> 00:08:16,576 Now there are many things that we may do and love. 154 00:08:16,816 --> 00:08:20,106 Maybe it's, you know, coaching your kids little league or 155 00:08:20,106 --> 00:08:21,646 soccer practice or something. 156 00:08:21,916 --> 00:08:22,716 Does the world need it? 157 00:08:23,106 --> 00:08:23,276 Okay. 158 00:08:23,486 --> 00:08:23,616 Yeah. 159 00:08:23,616 --> 00:08:26,026 Broadly speaking, you're making a difference in kids' lives. 160 00:08:26,056 --> 00:08:26,866 Are you good at it? 161 00:08:26,926 --> 00:08:29,866 Well, you don't have to be the best soccer player in the world 162 00:08:29,866 --> 00:08:31,696 to coach your kids' soccer team. 163 00:08:32,216 --> 00:08:33,026 Do you love it? 164 00:08:33,026 --> 00:08:33,416 Yes. 165 00:08:33,416 --> 00:08:34,526 Will you be paid for it? 166 00:08:34,586 --> 00:08:34,976 No. 167 00:08:35,216 --> 00:08:38,246 But it could be a really high value thing for you because 168 00:08:38,246 --> 00:08:40,196 it meets those other criteria. 169 00:08:40,196 --> 00:08:45,636 S o for me, just listing those things out then helps me understand what 170 00:08:45,636 --> 00:08:51,096 are those really high value things that I care about versus what are 171 00:08:51,096 --> 00:08:53,406 things that are low value to me. 172 00:08:53,406 --> 00:08:59,036 Maybe it's a committee that I'm on that I really need to gracefully exit from, or 173 00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:04,196 maybe it's certain personal administration work, like home administration work that 174 00:09:04,196 --> 00:09:11,756 I really don't like, or maybe it's work admin tasks that I want to then say either 175 00:09:11,826 --> 00:09:16,901 outsource or some things maybe I can't outsource I wanna do them as quickly 176 00:09:16,961 --> 00:09:19,031 and efficiently as humanly possible. 177 00:09:19,511 --> 00:09:23,707 Or maybe if I can, I wanna take them off my plate altogether. 178 00:09:24,457 --> 00:09:29,257 So first is just sitting down, understanding yourself, understanding 179 00:09:29,257 --> 00:09:33,637 what you're doing, and understanding what you want to be doing, and that's how 180 00:09:33,637 --> 00:09:36,337 you can start to big picture prioritize. 181 00:09:37,037 --> 00:09:40,097 Which then can feed you into kind of prioritizing your day. 182 00:09:40,217 --> 00:09:43,037 So I'm curious for you, Sam, what would that look like for you? 183 00:09:43,097 --> 00:09:46,487 What are those things that like map right in the middle of the circle for you? 184 00:09:47,132 --> 00:09:47,762 Sam: Yeah. 185 00:09:47,972 --> 00:09:49,712 Yeah, that's a great question. 186 00:09:50,067 --> 00:09:52,917 I mean, things I'm involved with, obviously this podcast in 187 00:09:52,917 --> 00:09:55,917 EB Medicine, which is something I thoroughly enjoy doing. 188 00:09:56,257 --> 00:09:59,317 And then , there are a ton of other things. 189 00:09:59,317 --> 00:10:00,817 You know, I enjoy the martial arts. 190 00:10:00,817 --> 00:10:01,627 That's a hobby. 191 00:10:01,807 --> 00:10:03,217 I get to do that with my children. 192 00:10:03,277 --> 00:10:05,437 It's definitely something I'm not getting paid to do. 193 00:10:05,697 --> 00:10:07,557 But I'd say that's a pretty high priority for me. 194 00:10:07,857 --> 00:10:11,907 Spending time with my family is, I think, at the top of the list. 195 00:10:12,187 --> 00:10:14,377 Again, not something I'm getting paid to do, but something 196 00:10:14,377 --> 00:10:16,117 I find of great high value. 197 00:10:16,477 --> 00:10:21,697 The administrative stuff yeah, there's a lot of that kinda administrative, 198 00:10:21,697 --> 00:10:27,667 nonclinical medical stuff that I do that I don't really have a passion for. 199 00:10:27,957 --> 00:10:32,177 But it pays the bills and so, it can be challenging sometimes 200 00:10:32,762 --> 00:10:35,102 trying to build a priority list. 201 00:10:35,102 --> 00:10:37,342 So I've got a lot of things that I enjoy doing. 202 00:10:37,342 --> 00:10:39,952 I've even got some things I enjoy doing, I just don't have time to do. 203 00:10:40,162 --> 00:10:41,422 Playing music is one of them. 204 00:10:41,512 --> 00:10:44,812 You know, I would say I value it, but not above anything else 205 00:10:44,812 --> 00:10:45,742 that I've already mentioned. 206 00:10:46,042 --> 00:10:50,512 And so it often falls off the list, but if I could, I would spend more time doing it. 207 00:10:50,932 --> 00:10:56,172 Yeah, so then if I've got all of these things that I value and some I want 208 00:10:56,172 --> 00:11:02,212 to be doing, some I maybe would choose to do less of, but they pay the bills. 209 00:11:02,822 --> 00:11:05,512 Then, what would be the next step in that focus? 210 00:11:05,512 --> 00:11:11,862 Is it better to kind of check off the ones that are maybe not of high value and 211 00:11:11,862 --> 00:11:15,942 get 'em done as quickly as possible, or to put those off until the end and spend 212 00:11:15,942 --> 00:11:17,922 more time doing the things that I enjoy. 213 00:11:18,217 --> 00:11:18,637 Christina Shenvi: Mm-hmm. 214 00:11:19,632 --> 00:11:19,692 Yeah. 215 00:11:19,692 --> 00:11:20,922 So you've got your priorities. 216 00:11:21,612 --> 00:11:22,122 Check. 217 00:11:22,272 --> 00:11:25,302 And that's great that your family does not pay you to hang out with them. 218 00:11:25,302 --> 00:11:26,307 I would worry if they did. 219 00:11:27,007 --> 00:11:28,407 Sam: But what a cool job that would be. 220 00:11:28,407 --> 00:11:29,077 Christina Shenvi: But what a cool job. 221 00:11:29,077 --> 00:11:31,972 Hey, if someone would pay me to hang out with my family, that'd be awesome. 222 00:11:32,262 --> 00:11:36,672 So you've got your priorities and this is now where focus 223 00:11:36,672 --> 00:11:39,266 can help you unlock more time. 224 00:11:39,577 --> 00:11:43,338 Because let's say you sit down for your day and you've got 225 00:11:43,338 --> 00:11:44,898 all these things you could do. 226 00:11:45,288 --> 00:11:49,758 Well, now you need to strategize, well, what am I going to choose 227 00:11:49,758 --> 00:11:51,048 to do of all these things. 228 00:11:51,048 --> 00:11:52,338 You could plan your next podcast. 229 00:11:52,338 --> 00:11:55,008 You could go hang out with your kids and skip off work. 230 00:11:55,008 --> 00:11:57,078 You could do your charts and your admin tasks. 231 00:11:57,078 --> 00:11:58,548 Well, now you need to strategize. 232 00:11:58,788 --> 00:11:59,958 What are you going to do? 233 00:12:00,228 --> 00:12:02,058 And this is where focus can really help. 234 00:12:02,058 --> 00:12:05,178 First of all, focusing just to do that executive functioning 235 00:12:05,238 --> 00:12:06,558 of planning your day. 236 00:12:07,038 --> 00:12:12,108 But then second of all, let's look at, for example, a high value task. 237 00:12:12,108 --> 00:12:15,858 Like maybe for you that's planning out your podcast or something, you 238 00:12:15,858 --> 00:12:18,858 know, content that you're creating for EB Medicine that you love. 239 00:12:19,608 --> 00:12:26,818 If you can focus really well and do that work in two hours, focusing, using all 240 00:12:26,818 --> 00:12:32,368 your attention, you can maybe get that done in two hours as opposed to not really 241 00:12:32,368 --> 00:12:36,298 focusing, kind of also checking your emails, also bouncing around to different 242 00:12:36,298 --> 00:12:38,938 things, and then it takes four hours. 243 00:12:39,458 --> 00:12:44,408 One of my favorite books about focus is Cal Newport's book Deep Work, and 244 00:12:44,408 --> 00:12:45,838 in that book he gives this equation. 245 00:12:46,655 --> 00:12:50,615 The high value work that you produce equals time spent 246 00:12:50,645 --> 00:12:52,595 times intensity of focus. 247 00:12:52,775 --> 00:12:57,515 So I could spend four hours with low focus and get the work done, or two hours 248 00:12:57,515 --> 00:12:59,665 in high focus and get that work done. 249 00:13:00,215 --> 00:13:03,935 So that's just the first broad idea for how you can apply it 250 00:13:03,935 --> 00:13:05,585 to your deep, high value work. 251 00:13:05,915 --> 00:13:09,815 But then all these shallow tasks like, you know, for me, submitting 252 00:13:09,815 --> 00:13:15,485 reimbursement receipts, planning my travel, you know logistics and 253 00:13:15,485 --> 00:13:17,388 hotels, all those types of things. 254 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,654 Similarly, if I can take those low value tasks, let's say I have four 255 00:13:22,654 --> 00:13:25,504 hours of low value tasks to get done. 256 00:13:26,254 --> 00:13:31,204 If I can do each hour's worth of work in 45 minutes, in four 257 00:13:31,204 --> 00:13:33,234 hours, I've saved an entire hour. 258 00:13:33,718 --> 00:13:37,798 So those small changes in efficiency, because most things 259 00:13:37,798 --> 00:13:40,738 that you do in an hour, an hour long meeting, an hour of emails. 260 00:13:40,978 --> 00:13:45,778 If I can really focus and work quickly and get it done in 45 minutes, that doesn't 261 00:13:45,778 --> 00:13:50,218 seem like a big shift, but in eight hours, that's two whole hours of your day. 262 00:13:50,518 --> 00:13:52,468 So that's pretty incredible to me. 263 00:13:53,168 --> 00:13:55,328 So, all right, Sam, we've got your priorities. 264 00:13:55,538 --> 00:13:58,508 Now you're gonna sit down and strategize for the day. 265 00:13:58,688 --> 00:13:59,138 Okay. 266 00:13:59,828 --> 00:14:07,278 So one approach is to write down all the things that you could do that day, and 267 00:14:07,278 --> 00:14:12,298 then look at them and say, all right, which things require a deep focus. 268 00:14:12,668 --> 00:14:17,108 Which things really are gonna require like more than 45 minutes or so. 269 00:14:17,288 --> 00:14:20,738 Maybe it's, you know, planning a presentation or creating some 270 00:14:20,738 --> 00:14:23,768 content, writing an article, writing a grant, something like that. 271 00:14:24,168 --> 00:14:25,618 Those you're gonna call deep work. 272 00:14:26,458 --> 00:14:31,998 And then other tasks that maybe don't require all your focus, maybe lower impact 273 00:14:31,998 --> 00:14:33,588 tasks, we're gonna call shallow work. 274 00:14:34,248 --> 00:14:37,908 So now you can think about architecting your day so that 275 00:14:37,908 --> 00:14:40,208 you can apply your focus best. 276 00:14:40,208 --> 00:14:44,938 So for me, for example, what I'll do is write down the things that I could 277 00:14:44,938 --> 00:14:49,258 do that day, like things that maybe are coming up that are due or things 278 00:14:49,258 --> 00:14:53,198 that you know, somebody's emailed me and I need to respond to and do. 279 00:14:53,788 --> 00:14:56,058 And I'll categorize them by deep or shallow work. 280 00:14:56,618 --> 00:14:58,048 And then I'll prioritize them. 281 00:14:58,048 --> 00:15:02,868 So with that deep work, what are the top three or four things in order 282 00:15:03,238 --> 00:15:04,783 that are most important to get done. 283 00:15:05,233 --> 00:15:08,113 And you could think about that with, you know, a two by two matrix of 284 00:15:08,113 --> 00:15:10,063 what's urgent and what's important. 285 00:15:10,493 --> 00:15:13,613 Or you'll just have a sense of, okay, this is due soon. 286 00:15:13,613 --> 00:15:14,783 I need to get this done. 287 00:15:14,783 --> 00:15:15,923 This is high priority. 288 00:15:16,343 --> 00:15:17,573 You're gonna prioritize them. 289 00:15:18,273 --> 00:15:24,768 And then I know for myself, I work best kind of first thing early to 290 00:15:24,768 --> 00:15:29,178 midmorning, like from when I start work, if that's 9:00 AM 9:00 AM to noon. 291 00:15:29,868 --> 00:15:34,128 I can get a good solid three hours of work done there, so I'll prioritize 292 00:15:34,128 --> 00:15:36,138 my deep work during that time. 293 00:15:36,438 --> 00:15:39,618 I know I've worked with some people who say they work really well at 294 00:15:39,618 --> 00:15:41,808 5:00 AM before their family gets up. 295 00:15:41,808 --> 00:15:44,598 So they will get up at 5:00 AM from five to seven they'll get some 296 00:15:44,598 --> 00:15:46,578 deep work done, more power to them. 297 00:15:46,608 --> 00:15:47,478 That is not me. 298 00:15:47,718 --> 00:15:49,488 I know that from nine to 12. 299 00:15:49,488 --> 00:15:50,748 That's my like sweet spot. 300 00:15:50,748 --> 00:15:55,553 So I try to protect that time, not scheduling meetings for that 301 00:15:55,553 --> 00:16:00,793 time if possible, and I will then prioritize that deep work. 302 00:16:01,493 --> 00:16:04,493 And then you still need to have time to do the shallow work. 303 00:16:04,493 --> 00:16:08,483 So that might mean, you know, for me, one approach is when I'm eating 304 00:16:08,483 --> 00:16:13,017 lunch around noon or 1230, then I'll shoot off some of those emails 305 00:16:13,037 --> 00:16:14,627 or do some of that shallow work. 306 00:16:14,977 --> 00:16:19,527 But by looking at your work through that lens of what requires a deep focus 307 00:16:19,527 --> 00:16:25,107 and what is high priority, then you can start to time block in your day. 308 00:16:25,107 --> 00:16:27,237 So from nine to 10:00 AM I'll work on this. 309 00:16:27,237 --> 00:16:28,557 10 to 11, I'll work on that. 310 00:16:28,797 --> 00:16:31,641 Or maybe it's a bigger project, it'll take two or three hours and 311 00:16:31,641 --> 00:16:35,191 you can start to time block out, this is what I'm going to aim to do. 312 00:16:35,881 --> 00:16:36,751 So that's one approach. 313 00:16:36,751 --> 00:16:40,021 How do you think that would work for you, looking at what you have on your plate? 314 00:16:40,636 --> 00:16:41,866 Sam: So I like it. 315 00:16:41,866 --> 00:16:45,226 But I'm wondering now, how much time are you spending in 316 00:16:45,226 --> 00:16:47,056 the categorization process? 317 00:16:47,106 --> 00:16:49,146 Like every morning you sit down and do this, or are you 318 00:16:49,146 --> 00:16:50,166 just projecting out a week? 319 00:16:50,166 --> 00:16:50,999 Or how do you go about doing that? 320 00:16:51,216 --> 00:16:53,226 Christina Shenvi: It varies kind of depending on how 321 00:16:53,226 --> 00:16:54,336 much time I have in a day. 322 00:16:54,336 --> 00:16:57,299 And here, for this purpose, we're not talking about clinical work. 323 00:16:57,299 --> 00:16:59,039 We're talking about like those other things. 324 00:16:59,039 --> 00:17:01,864 If you have a whole day or a half day where you're like, okay, I'm going 325 00:17:01,864 --> 00:17:03,819 to get all these other things done. 326 00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:08,986 I will, if I have a whole day ahead of me, sit down at the start of the day and 327 00:17:08,986 --> 00:17:13,066 write out, you know, deep work, here's the four or five deep work tasks that 328 00:17:13,066 --> 00:17:16,786 I could do, and now let me prioritize them, and shallow work, here's the 329 00:17:16,786 --> 00:17:18,226 three or four shallow work tasks. 330 00:17:18,316 --> 00:17:22,396 And the nice thing about that is then if something pops into my head, like, 331 00:17:22,396 --> 00:17:26,746 oh shoot, I've gotta email Sam about the podcast we're recording, then I 332 00:17:26,746 --> 00:17:28,696 can add that to my shallow work tasks. 333 00:17:28,696 --> 00:17:32,046 And when I come to the shallow work, I can knock it out so that when I'm deep in 334 00:17:32,046 --> 00:17:36,856 the deep work, if something pops into my head as a reminder, I don't have to then 335 00:17:37,406 --> 00:17:39,386 do it right away or keep it in my head. 336 00:17:39,386 --> 00:17:40,759 I can write it down and do it later. 337 00:17:40,899 --> 00:17:42,061 So that's one approach. 338 00:17:42,121 --> 00:17:47,723 Or if I know oh, I have Tuesday afternoon free, I have Thursday morning free, then 339 00:17:47,813 --> 00:17:52,116 I can, you know, block out ahead of time, maybe the week ahead, what I'm doing. 340 00:17:52,326 --> 00:17:53,676 It really doesn't take that much time. 341 00:17:54,376 --> 00:17:57,526 Sam: And when you're deep in the deep work, this is like time where 342 00:17:57,526 --> 00:18:01,366 you've silenced your phone, put that away, no one can get to you unless 343 00:18:01,366 --> 00:18:02,596 it's an emergency kind of thing. 344 00:18:02,626 --> 00:18:03,466 No distractions. 345 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:04,736 Christina Shenvi: Perfect. 346 00:18:04,736 --> 00:18:06,806 So we've prioritized, we've strategized. 347 00:18:06,806 --> 00:18:08,516 Now, how do you actually focus? 348 00:18:08,576 --> 00:18:11,876 So if you've set aside, all right, Tuesday morning, you're gonna work on 349 00:18:11,876 --> 00:18:16,916 that podcast or you're gonna work on that grant, how do you actually focus? 350 00:18:16,976 --> 00:18:20,996 And part of it is definitely reducing distractions . There's a 351 00:18:20,996 --> 00:18:25,106 lot of literature on distraction and procrastination and psychology. 352 00:18:25,106 --> 00:18:29,031 Even I've read some literature from kind of the IT world about this. 353 00:18:29,101 --> 00:18:30,111 It's really fascinating. 354 00:18:30,811 --> 00:18:35,621 And in thinking about it, why do we distract ourselves? 355 00:18:35,651 --> 00:18:37,841 Why do we get so distracted? 356 00:18:38,141 --> 00:18:42,146 We check our phones on average, this is from twenty twenty four, three 357 00:18:42,146 --> 00:18:43,961 hundred and forty four times a day. 358 00:18:44,276 --> 00:18:44,816 Sam: Wow. 359 00:18:44,951 --> 00:18:47,411 Christina Shenvi: When we are in the office on email, we check 360 00:18:47,411 --> 00:18:49,801 our email every two minutes. 361 00:18:49,911 --> 00:18:51,111 What is going on? 362 00:18:51,511 --> 00:18:53,131 I think there's several things. 363 00:18:53,221 --> 00:18:56,933 One is that often we wanna avoid the negative emotions that 364 00:18:56,933 --> 00:18:58,793 may come up with other work. 365 00:18:59,243 --> 00:19:03,713 So for example, let's say we're working on that grant and we're like, Ugh, 366 00:19:03,773 --> 00:19:08,093 this is really overwhelming, or this is frustrating, or this is boring. 367 00:19:08,243 --> 00:19:11,273 Or maybe we're writing a paper and we're like, Ugh, why am I doing this? 368 00:19:11,273 --> 00:19:12,473 It's never gonna get accepted. 369 00:19:12,683 --> 00:19:13,823 We have a lot of self-doubt. 370 00:19:14,523 --> 00:19:17,893 We want to avoid those negative emotions. 371 00:19:18,163 --> 00:19:18,833 So what do we do? 372 00:19:18,833 --> 00:19:22,782 Sometimes we go to TikTok or Instagram or Facebook or whatever. 373 00:19:23,582 --> 00:19:27,042 Other times we go to, let me just knock out a few emails. 374 00:19:27,392 --> 00:19:27,452 Sam: Hmm. 375 00:19:27,452 --> 00:19:31,142 Christina Shenvi: So most often when I've worked with now hundreds of physicians 376 00:19:31,142 --> 00:19:36,422 and other professionals, when I talk with them about what do they do when they are 377 00:19:36,422 --> 00:19:40,652 seeking distraction, often it's shallow work, so they'll go to their emails 378 00:19:40,652 --> 00:19:45,422 because there's a sense of satisfaction from knocking out a few easy emails. 379 00:19:45,872 --> 00:19:50,492 That feels a lot easier than the hard work of writing that paper, 380 00:19:50,492 --> 00:19:53,612 writing that grant, writing that book chapter, creating that PowerPoint. 381 00:19:53,912 --> 00:19:58,382 So sometimes we avoid things because we want to avoid the negative emotions. 382 00:19:58,802 --> 00:19:58,882 Sam: Hmm. 383 00:19:59,267 --> 00:20:02,807 Christina Shenvi: Other times though, we feel like, you know, it's productive. 384 00:20:02,867 --> 00:20:07,577 I get a sense of being productive if I can check off a few items on the to-do list or 385 00:20:07,577 --> 00:20:13,664 emails, and that's not bad, but it becomes maladaptive if we are then not ever 386 00:20:13,664 --> 00:20:15,614 getting to the deep work that we wanna do. 387 00:20:15,779 --> 00:20:15,899 Sam: Hmm. 388 00:20:16,094 --> 00:20:18,884 Christina Shenvi: There's also a commodity, there's a 389 00:20:18,884 --> 00:20:20,594 price tag on our attention. 390 00:20:21,294 --> 00:20:25,434 There's a saying that if you are not paying for something, 391 00:20:25,584 --> 00:20:26,964 then you are the product. 392 00:20:27,339 --> 00:20:30,369 Your attention is what is being bought and sold. 393 00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:35,349 And that is very true about social media, which I'm gonna harp on because 394 00:20:35,349 --> 00:20:37,469 that is one of the big distractors. 395 00:20:37,999 --> 00:20:41,899 When you look at, for example, so I'm gonna pick on our phones for a minute. 396 00:20:42,124 --> 00:20:42,274 Sam: Hmm. 397 00:20:42,679 --> 00:20:47,959 Christina Shenvi: When you look at how much time we spend on our phones per day, 398 00:20:48,053 --> 00:20:51,903 on average , what would you guess the average time spent on a mobile device? 399 00:20:51,903 --> 00:20:56,955 And I'm not go nna make you pull up your phone and show us your weekly average use. 400 00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:57,410 Sam: yes, 401 00:20:57,525 --> 00:20:58,665 Christina Shenvi: That's between you and God. 402 00:20:58,965 --> 00:21:01,515 What do you think is the average in the US? 403 00:21:02,205 --> 00:21:04,095 Sam: I'm gonna guess like, 404 00:21:04,095 --> 00:21:04,335 sam_1_07-18-2025_120148: uh, 405 00:21:04,392 --> 00:21:05,022 Sam: five hours. 406 00:21:05,742 --> 00:21:06,732 Christina Shenvi: You're pretty spot on. 407 00:21:06,732 --> 00:21:06,972 Yep. 408 00:21:06,972 --> 00:21:09,402 The average is five hours and 16 minutes. 409 00:21:09,702 --> 00:21:13,812 And if you look at baby boomers, currently the average is like 410 00:21:13,812 --> 00:21:15,162 four hours and 20 minutes. 411 00:21:15,192 --> 00:21:20,082 It increases if you're a Gen X, four hours, 48 minutes, gen Y or 412 00:21:20,082 --> 00:21:25,014 millennial five and a half hours and Gen Z, six and a half hours per day. 413 00:21:25,374 --> 00:21:32,958 Now I hear you say, okay but I am using a lot of that time for productivity. 414 00:21:33,028 --> 00:21:40,398 Well, maybe, but the data would argue that actually the sliver of time 415 00:21:40,398 --> 00:21:45,168 that we spend being productive on our phones is actually relatively small. 416 00:21:45,483 --> 00:21:49,233 So from some really interesting data on how we spend our time on our 417 00:21:49,233 --> 00:21:52,893 phones only, what percentage would you guess we spend on productivity? 418 00:21:53,593 --> 00:21:53,813 Sam: Oof. 419 00:21:54,513 --> 00:21:54,993 20%. 420 00:21:55,693 --> 00:21:56,923 Christina Shenvi: 5%. 421 00:21:57,118 --> 00:21:59,518 Sam: Gosh, you're killing me 5%. 422 00:22:00,208 --> 00:22:00,298 Ugh. 423 00:22:00,553 --> 00:22:02,443 Christina Shenvi: Now there's lots of other great things we do. 424 00:22:02,743 --> 00:22:06,763 17% is on streaming audio or music, so I love that. 425 00:22:06,763 --> 00:22:10,603 I listen to tons of audio books or music while I'm at the gym or driving. 426 00:22:10,813 --> 00:22:12,813 So , I'm okay with that use of my phone. 427 00:22:13,233 --> 00:22:16,503 Productivity also can be helpful sometimes, although 428 00:22:16,503 --> 00:22:17,493 there's some caveats there. 429 00:22:17,913 --> 00:22:21,993 But we spend a whopping 37% of that five and a half hours or 430 00:22:21,993 --> 00:22:27,547 five, and a quarter hours on social media and 25% on entertainment. 431 00:22:27,687 --> 00:22:33,955 So we need to take an honest look at our phone use and our distractions. 432 00:22:34,045 --> 00:22:38,039 And it's interesting, Sam, so I went on like a nice deep rabbit hole about this. 433 00:22:38,219 --> 00:22:40,379 Why are we accessing social media? 434 00:22:41,079 --> 00:22:44,805 The number one reason is boredom. 435 00:22:45,345 --> 00:22:45,465 Sam: Hmm. 436 00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:49,300 Christina Shenvi: when we are doing tasks that are maybe boring. 437 00:22:50,050 --> 00:22:50,830 What do we do? 438 00:22:50,890 --> 00:22:54,190 Well, five minutes into the task, what do we feel? 439 00:22:54,190 --> 00:22:58,930 We feel like this tingle in our brains and our brains are like, this is boring. 440 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,190 I don't like boring. 441 00:23:00,340 --> 00:23:01,390 I like interesting. 442 00:23:01,570 --> 00:23:02,710 You know what's interesting? 443 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,360 My phone. 444 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,190 And so I encourage you to try this, like try just moving your phone somewhere 445 00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:13,820 where you can't reach it and sit there and work on something and just 446 00:23:13,820 --> 00:23:18,430 start a timer and notice how long is it before you reach for your phone. 447 00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:19,300 Sam: Hmm. 448 00:23:19,810 --> 00:23:23,570 Christina Shenvi: So , there are lots of things out there, lots of reasons 449 00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:26,024 why our attention is under siege. 450 00:23:26,638 --> 00:23:30,178 A lot of people are making a lot of money off of our attention. 451 00:23:30,728 --> 00:23:33,848 The other thing about social media without going too deep into this, 452 00:23:33,908 --> 00:23:37,328 is it has a variable reward system. 453 00:23:37,733 --> 00:23:38,063 Sam: Hmm. 454 00:23:38,063 --> 00:23:41,173 Christina Shenvi: So you know, back to those experiments with mice or rats or 455 00:23:41,173 --> 00:23:43,543 whatever, where they would press a lever. 456 00:23:43,543 --> 00:23:47,323 And if you press a lever and you always get a reward, it's not that addictive. 457 00:23:47,593 --> 00:23:49,903 If you press a lever and you never get a reward, well you're 458 00:23:49,903 --> 00:23:51,043 gonna stop that pretty quickly. 459 00:23:51,313 --> 00:23:56,503 But if you press a lever and sometimes you get a reward, like a slot machine, 460 00:23:56,833 --> 00:24:01,423 that is the most addictive and that is exactly how social media is, and 461 00:24:01,423 --> 00:24:03,463 it's designed that way on purpose. 462 00:24:03,553 --> 00:24:09,036 So we sometimes seek distraction because of avoiding those negative emotions. 463 00:24:09,066 --> 00:24:10,236 It's easy to look at. 464 00:24:10,236 --> 00:24:11,076 It's entertaining. 465 00:24:11,076 --> 00:24:12,366 It gives us some dopamine. 466 00:24:12,516 --> 00:24:14,586 Sometimes it's productive, right? 467 00:24:14,586 --> 00:24:18,696 Sometimes we find that good deal or that new idea or that good book recommendation, 468 00:24:19,386 --> 00:24:23,946 and it also avoids the burden of choice. 469 00:24:24,556 --> 00:24:26,476 It avoids decision fatigue. 470 00:24:26,856 --> 00:24:28,416 So hear me out with this one. 471 00:24:28,596 --> 00:24:32,196 When we are working, we have to decide what am I gonna do next? 472 00:24:32,526 --> 00:24:33,756 You know, we talked about that already. 473 00:24:33,756 --> 00:24:34,926 Prioritizing our day. 474 00:24:35,016 --> 00:24:36,486 What am I gonna do? 475 00:24:36,486 --> 00:24:37,686 What am I gonna write next? 476 00:24:37,686 --> 00:24:39,126 What am I gonna say in this email? 477 00:24:39,653 --> 00:24:45,293 It's just constant decisions, whereas why are reels that just 478 00:24:45,293 --> 00:24:48,383 continuously scroll so much easier? 479 00:24:49,073 --> 00:24:50,783 We don't have to choose what to look at. 480 00:24:50,873 --> 00:24:54,983 It's just fed to us, which is so easy on our brains. 481 00:24:55,133 --> 00:24:59,193 So that becomes a habit, that becomes an addiction and here's 482 00:24:59,193 --> 00:25:02,463 what scares me straight each time from Cal Newport's book. 483 00:25:02,733 --> 00:25:09,093 He says, if you spend enough time in frenetic shallowness, you can permanently 484 00:25:09,093 --> 00:25:12,453 reduce your capacity to perform deep work. 485 00:25:12,768 --> 00:25:13,458 Sam: Wow. 486 00:25:13,503 --> 00:25:14,613 Christina Shenvi: Isn't that frightening? 487 00:25:15,108 --> 00:25:15,928 Sam: That is scary. 488 00:25:15,928 --> 00:25:16,138 Good grief. 489 00:25:16,138 --> 00:25:17,958 Christina Shenvi: And I'm like, frenetic shallowness. 490 00:25:18,008 --> 00:25:18,958 Oh my goodness. 491 00:25:18,978 --> 00:25:20,928 That describes my day sometimes. 492 00:25:21,628 --> 00:25:21,922 Sam: Wow. 493 00:25:22,062 --> 00:25:26,418 So let's say I'm already super distracted by my phone and checking it a million 494 00:25:26,418 --> 00:25:30,228 times 'cause it sits on my desk right next to me while I'm trying to do my deep work. 495 00:25:30,293 --> 00:25:35,763 And it is consistently going off or consistently trying to draw my 496 00:25:35,763 --> 00:25:37,413 attention away from what I'm doing. 497 00:25:37,773 --> 00:25:39,333 Or if I'm doing something boring. 498 00:25:39,363 --> 00:25:44,943 I'd imagine this takes some training and practice to develop as a skill then 499 00:25:44,973 --> 00:25:47,113 just like anything else I'm going to do. 500 00:25:48,393 --> 00:25:48,688 Christina Shenvi: Absolutely, 100%. 501 00:25:48,738 --> 00:25:52,368 Sam: I mean, I can already feel the anxiety of putting down my phone somewhere 502 00:25:52,368 --> 00:25:56,273 away from where I can't see it and not know that something else is going on. 503 00:25:56,878 --> 00:25:58,288 Christina Shenvi: There's an aphonaphobia. 504 00:25:58,655 --> 00:26:00,635 We're worried if we don't have our phones with us. 505 00:26:01,085 --> 00:26:01,535 Yes. 506 00:26:01,535 --> 00:26:04,475 So here's where it starts with our minds. 507 00:26:04,835 --> 00:26:07,595 So in order to focus, yes, there's lots of strategies. 508 00:26:07,595 --> 00:26:12,365 I'll give you strategies, but first we need to clear our mental environments. 509 00:26:12,725 --> 00:26:15,775 So I think about, making the desired behavior easier. 510 00:26:15,775 --> 00:26:18,895 Like let's say you're on a diet, you're really trying to cut out carbs 511 00:26:18,895 --> 00:26:21,565 or whatever it is, you're cutting out fat, I don't care, whatever it is. 512 00:26:21,775 --> 00:26:24,265 Let's say you're trying to eat healthier. 513 00:26:24,965 --> 00:26:30,545 You wouldn't leave a buffet of donuts, cookies, and, you know, 514 00:26:30,545 --> 00:26:35,045 whatever is you're poison of choice, on your kitchen counter, right? 515 00:26:35,305 --> 00:26:35,455 Sam: Right. 516 00:26:35,775 --> 00:26:37,115 Christina Shenvi: Because every single time you go by your kitchen 517 00:26:37,115 --> 00:26:38,825 counter, you're gonna be tempted. 518 00:26:39,065 --> 00:26:44,015 No, my kids know if there are candies out, I will forget and I will just eat 519 00:26:44,015 --> 00:26:47,675 them without even like, consciously think- it's like a reflux, you, you know, 520 00:26:47,675 --> 00:26:49,205 walk by and I'm just gonna grab one. 521 00:26:49,415 --> 00:26:55,385 So they know any sweets need to go in the oven, like the bottom oven that we don't 522 00:26:55,385 --> 00:26:59,015 use except on Thanksgiving, you know, so everything has to go in the bottom 523 00:26:59,015 --> 00:27:00,725 oven and that way it's out of sight. 524 00:27:00,725 --> 00:27:01,415 I'm not gonna eat it. 525 00:27:01,815 --> 00:27:06,105 We need to make the desired behavior easier for ourselves. 526 00:27:06,455 --> 00:27:10,025 And here's three approaches, clear the mental environment, the physical 527 00:27:10,025 --> 00:27:12,095 environment, and our digital environments. 528 00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:16,448 So I told you it starts with understanding and managing our minds. 529 00:27:16,658 --> 00:27:20,848 We can't sit down and focus and do deep work if we have a lot 530 00:27:20,848 --> 00:27:22,678 of mental trash churning up. 531 00:27:22,978 --> 00:27:26,908 And that could be benign things like, oh, I need to email Sam. 532 00:27:26,938 --> 00:27:29,128 Oh, I need to do my reimbursement spreadsheet. 533 00:27:29,188 --> 00:27:31,228 Oh, I need to buy milk when I'm at the store. 534 00:27:31,558 --> 00:27:35,038 So all those thoughts, those are like balls bouncing around in our heads. 535 00:27:35,188 --> 00:27:39,718 We need to have a place to put those so we can talk strategies for that. 536 00:27:39,928 --> 00:27:42,478 We need to have a system to capture all those to-dos. 537 00:27:43,178 --> 00:27:47,078 But then a lot of times there are other thoughts that are getting in the way, 538 00:27:47,198 --> 00:27:50,663 like oh, this is never gonna get accepted. 539 00:27:50,693 --> 00:27:52,403 No one's gonna like this podcast. 540 00:27:52,403 --> 00:27:53,993 Why should I spend time planning it? 541 00:27:54,233 --> 00:27:55,373 Nobody's gonna listen. 542 00:27:55,373 --> 00:27:56,753 If they listen, they won't like it. 543 00:27:56,753 --> 00:27:58,733 They'll think I'm stupid, or whatever it is. 544 00:27:58,733 --> 00:28:01,223 Whatever things we have churning in our heads. 545 00:28:02,003 --> 00:28:03,743 So we need to start with a clear mind. 546 00:28:04,443 --> 00:28:07,263 One approach that I like, you know, some people meditate. 547 00:28:07,263 --> 00:28:07,863 That's great. 548 00:28:07,863 --> 00:28:09,183 I'm not very good at meditating. 549 00:28:09,483 --> 00:28:11,643 What I am good at is writing things down. 550 00:28:11,823 --> 00:28:15,183 So my approach is if I feel like there's all these things turning 551 00:28:15,183 --> 00:28:18,438 around there to take five minutes and just write down all my thoughts. 552 00:28:19,138 --> 00:28:22,078 Without any judgment or censure. 553 00:28:22,378 --> 00:28:25,408 So write down everything and just notice what's there. 554 00:28:25,618 --> 00:28:26,878 Oh, interesting. 555 00:28:26,968 --> 00:28:30,778 That's why I am avoiding this 'cause it's really boring, or, oh, I feel 556 00:28:30,778 --> 00:28:34,858 resentful that I have to do this because my department is now making 557 00:28:34,858 --> 00:28:36,448 me do this or that, whatever it is. 558 00:28:36,868 --> 00:28:41,518 So I am avoiding it because I feel resentful or I feel a 559 00:28:41,518 --> 00:28:43,528 sense of institutional betrayal. 560 00:28:43,858 --> 00:28:47,848 All sorts of big feelings maybe under the surface that we don't realize. 561 00:28:47,848 --> 00:28:52,298 So just writing them down or, you know, maybe it's coaching. 562 00:28:52,778 --> 00:28:54,488 I have gotten coaching over the years. 563 00:28:54,488 --> 00:28:57,548 It's been invaluable to the point that I was like, this is amazing. 564 00:28:57,578 --> 00:29:01,358 I'm gonna get training and become a coach because it's so life altering. 565 00:29:01,508 --> 00:29:06,008 Or maybe it's therapy, whatever it is for you that helps you clear your mental 566 00:29:06,008 --> 00:29:11,048 environment so that you can then focus only on the thing that you're doing. 567 00:29:11,748 --> 00:29:12,768 So that's the first step. 568 00:29:13,143 --> 00:29:16,053 Then the second one, this is probably the easiest, is clearing 569 00:29:16,053 --> 00:29:17,073 the physical environment. 570 00:29:17,163 --> 00:29:19,713 There's actually a lot of studies that having a clear physical 571 00:29:19,713 --> 00:29:23,403 environment helps you focus better and make better decisions. 572 00:29:23,673 --> 00:29:27,723 So just having a space, doesn't have to be a big space, just having a space that 573 00:29:27,723 --> 00:29:30,063 is under your control and is cleared. 574 00:29:30,763 --> 00:29:35,113 Now, the biggest one for us as kind of knowledge workers is 575 00:29:35,113 --> 00:29:37,333 clearing our digital environment. 576 00:29:38,216 --> 00:29:43,136 And there's, you mentioned Sam having, you know, a phone next to you on your desk. 577 00:29:43,556 --> 00:29:48,666 There are studies that show that having a phone on the desk, not even, you know, 578 00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:53,136 doing anything with it, just having a phone on the desk next to you makes 579 00:29:53,136 --> 00:29:55,446 you perform worse at difficult tasks. 580 00:29:55,866 --> 00:29:56,206 Sam: Hmm. 581 00:29:56,206 --> 00:29:56,976 Christina Shenvi: So yes. 582 00:29:56,976 --> 00:29:57,906 Can we multitask? 583 00:29:57,931 --> 00:29:58,261 Sure. 584 00:29:58,291 --> 00:30:00,151 I can drive and listen to a podcast. 585 00:30:00,151 --> 00:30:02,701 I can walk and chew gum, you know, not to like toot my own 586 00:30:02,701 --> 00:30:03,961 horn, but I can walk and chew gum. 587 00:30:04,661 --> 00:30:07,795 But have you had this experience when you're like trying to read 588 00:30:07,795 --> 00:30:11,005 road signs and you're navigating to a place you weren't familiar with? 589 00:30:11,305 --> 00:30:12,415 I have to turn the music off. 590 00:30:12,505 --> 00:30:13,045 Sam: Yes. 591 00:30:13,105 --> 00:30:13,585 Christina Shenvi: I can't. 592 00:30:13,875 --> 00:30:14,045 Sam: Yes. 593 00:30:14,115 --> 00:30:14,875 Christina Shenvi: I'm at that age. 594 00:30:15,135 --> 00:30:17,695 Tell me you're in your mid forties without telling me you're in your mid forties. 595 00:30:17,995 --> 00:30:20,965 So I have to turn the music down because I need to focus. 596 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:26,390 So when we're trying to do difficult tasks, like imagine trying to sing along 597 00:30:26,390 --> 00:30:28,190 to lyrics and do math in your head. 598 00:30:28,380 --> 00:30:32,340 No, we can't do two cognitively challenging tasks at the same time. 599 00:30:32,816 --> 00:30:37,226 So just stowing your phone somewhere where it is away from your arms 600 00:30:37,226 --> 00:30:39,656 length reach is a good first step. 601 00:30:39,986 --> 00:30:42,566 Clearing your digital environment means also turning 602 00:30:42,566 --> 00:30:45,326 off any dings or notification. 603 00:30:45,921 --> 00:30:46,191 Sam: Mm-hmm. 604 00:30:46,191 --> 00:30:47,386 Christina Shenvi: You don't need that in your life. 605 00:30:47,776 --> 00:30:51,586 I would not let a coworker like barge into my room and tap me on 606 00:30:51,586 --> 00:30:53,296 the shoulder every five minutes. 607 00:30:53,656 --> 00:30:57,616 And yet when we have a ding that's notifying us, oh, you have an email, you 608 00:30:57,616 --> 00:30:59,206 have a message, that's what we're doing. 609 00:30:59,326 --> 00:31:00,436 Why would you let them do that? 610 00:31:00,916 --> 00:31:05,776 So clearing out any sort of things that are gonna notify you 611 00:31:05,776 --> 00:31:11,116 or distract you, close down your email when you're trying to work on 612 00:31:11,176 --> 00:31:12,646 something that requires deep work. 613 00:31:13,346 --> 00:31:13,946 Sam: I like that. 614 00:31:14,276 --> 00:31:15,086 I like that a lot. 615 00:31:15,296 --> 00:31:17,666 In fact, I was just having this conversation with my daughter the other 616 00:31:17,666 --> 00:31:19,496 day because we are in the same house. 617 00:31:19,526 --> 00:31:23,166 She's a teenager and she prefers to text me whenever she needs anything. 618 00:31:23,256 --> 00:31:26,676 And so I finally had to approach her and say, listen, if you need 619 00:31:26,676 --> 00:31:28,596 something, come and find me. 620 00:31:28,941 --> 00:31:33,741 Otherwise the texting is for when you're not here in the house or I'm not here. 621 00:31:34,041 --> 00:31:35,691 'Cause I'm, I'm not gonna look at my phone. 622 00:31:35,751 --> 00:31:37,791 'Cause I'll get a text from her and she'll be like, can I have this? 623 00:31:37,791 --> 00:31:40,631 And then a few minutes later, Hey hello, are you gonna answer me? 624 00:31:41,141 --> 00:31:42,491 I'm like, is this an emergency? 625 00:31:42,491 --> 00:31:43,241 Like, what's going on? 626 00:31:43,241 --> 00:31:43,871 Come find me. 627 00:31:44,151 --> 00:31:49,221 But yes, I can totally empathize with the whole, my phone is going off every 628 00:31:49,221 --> 00:31:52,401 three seconds 'cause someone is, you know, teams messaging me personal 629 00:31:52,401 --> 00:31:55,911 messaging, me sending me an email, sending me a work email sending me some 630 00:31:55,911 --> 00:31:59,341 other notification you know, DMing, me, sending me a social media post. 631 00:31:59,341 --> 00:32:02,161 Whatever it is, there's always something coming at me. 632 00:32:02,441 --> 00:32:07,453 And, although I have stopped the, you know, the dings and the vibrations 633 00:32:07,453 --> 00:32:10,513 and those kinds of things, they still pop up on my screen as notifications. 634 00:32:10,513 --> 00:32:14,113 And now what I've found I'm doing is the phone sits next to me on the desk 635 00:32:14,293 --> 00:32:17,923 and , just the screen lights up and I start getting distracted and I go, oh, 636 00:32:18,018 --> 00:32:18,248 Christina Shenvi: Yep. 637 00:32:18,253 --> 00:32:18,688 Sam: What was that? 638 00:32:18,728 --> 00:32:21,133 And I look over and read it and I'm like, I'm really doing myself 639 00:32:21,133 --> 00:32:22,843 a big disservice in that scenario. 640 00:32:22,843 --> 00:32:23,530 So, yes. 641 00:32:23,530 --> 00:32:23,650 Okay. 642 00:32:23,770 --> 00:32:24,950 Christina Shenvi: Yeah reclaim your time. 643 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,090 Reclaim your focus. 644 00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:27,970 You know, I had a real realization. 645 00:32:28,370 --> 00:32:33,720 I was speaking on the topic of focus about six or seven months ago, and I realized, 646 00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:38,370 well, this is not the realization, but I realized I will never be a supermodel 647 00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:40,080 or a professional athlete, right? 648 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,810 That's not a major realization, but the realization was, the only thing I 649 00:32:44,810 --> 00:32:46,710 have going for me really is my mind. 650 00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:52,770 And so I wanna protect Protect it and nurture it as much as I possibly can. 651 00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:57,810 Just like an athlete would exercise their body and train their skills. 652 00:32:58,170 --> 00:33:01,740 I wanna train my mental skills 'cause that's what I rely on. 653 00:33:01,740 --> 00:33:05,100 That's, you know, what I do and what my livelihood relies on. 654 00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:09,660 And so that's part of what keeps me motivated as well as the risk of 655 00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:11,640 eroding your ability to do deep work. 656 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,190 All right, Sam, so I've got some practical strategies. 657 00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:15,420 Sam: Okay, let's do it. 658 00:33:15,510 --> 00:33:15,990 Christina Shenvi: If you're ready. 659 00:33:16,110 --> 00:33:19,830 All right, so clearing your mental environment, one approach is to sit 660 00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:20,730 down and write all your thoughts. 661 00:33:20,730 --> 00:33:22,950 Clearing your digital and your physical environment, that's 662 00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:24,450 relatively straightforward. 663 00:33:25,416 --> 00:33:31,695 You also need to have a system to manage all those open loops. 664 00:33:31,695 --> 00:33:32,025 So 665 00:33:32,095 --> 00:33:32,165 Sam: Yeah. 666 00:33:32,165 --> 00:33:34,155 Christina Shenvi: let's say you're sitting there doing your deep work, you've 667 00:33:34,155 --> 00:33:35,775 planned, you've time blocked, right? 668 00:33:35,775 --> 00:33:37,335 You can't just do deep work for five minutes. 669 00:33:37,335 --> 00:33:38,145 That's very difficult. 670 00:33:38,355 --> 00:33:42,495 So you've planned out this hour and a half, I'm gonna work on that big important 671 00:33:42,495 --> 00:33:46,198 task, that wildly important task, and you've silenced your phone, you've done 672 00:33:46,198 --> 00:33:50,551 all the things, and then you're sitting there and in pops the thought into 673 00:33:50,551 --> 00:33:56,161 your head, oh, I need to buy milk, or I need to send that email to Christina. 674 00:33:56,861 --> 00:34:01,231 Now that thought is draining your cognitive capacity. 675 00:34:01,231 --> 00:34:05,171 'Cause cause we're not good at keeping things in our head while 676 00:34:05,171 --> 00:34:06,821 also focusing on what we're doing. 677 00:34:07,211 --> 00:34:10,151 So we need to have a system to capture those tasks. 678 00:34:10,851 --> 00:34:13,251 And here's where sometimes people run into challenges. 679 00:34:13,311 --> 00:34:18,801 They, especially in January, they like to buy the notebook 680 00:34:18,861 --> 00:34:19,971 that will end all notebooks. 681 00:34:20,671 --> 00:34:23,661 Or they download a new app and they're so excited, I'm gonna 682 00:34:23,661 --> 00:34:25,281 put al the things in here. 683 00:34:25,591 --> 00:34:26,761 Sam: I love me a new app. 684 00:34:27,211 --> 00:34:27,661 Christina Shenvi: yeah. 685 00:34:27,661 --> 00:34:31,621 And then what happens a month, two months later, you're like, oh, I've put all these 686 00:34:31,621 --> 00:34:35,671 things in there, but I'm not really doing 'em, or I'm not going back to look at it. 687 00:34:35,671 --> 00:34:37,565 And so I'm gonna delete that app. 688 00:34:37,692 --> 00:34:38,712 That app didn't work for me. 689 00:34:38,802 --> 00:34:41,052 It's gonna go in the graveyard of apps with all the other 690 00:34:41,052 --> 00:34:42,012 apps that didn't work for me. 691 00:34:42,432 --> 00:34:44,442 Well, there is no perfect app. 692 00:34:45,045 --> 00:34:47,235 A system needs three components. 693 00:34:47,235 --> 00:34:51,439 You need to be able to put things in, organize them, and take them out. 694 00:34:51,765 --> 00:34:52,076 Right. 695 00:34:52,076 --> 00:34:52,916 That's all it needs. 696 00:34:53,096 --> 00:34:55,106 So that could be a paper notebook. 697 00:34:55,196 --> 00:34:55,646 Sure. 698 00:34:55,706 --> 00:34:57,986 That could be a bullet journal, that could be an app. 699 00:34:58,646 --> 00:35:00,186 I've tried a lot of the apps. 700 00:35:00,206 --> 00:35:02,666 My favorite ones are Microsoft to do. 701 00:35:02,666 --> 00:35:03,516 That's the one I actually use the most. 702 00:35:03,581 --> 00:35:04,001 Sam: Really. 703 00:35:04,471 --> 00:35:04,761 Okay. 704 00:35:04,766 --> 00:35:07,376 Christina Shenvi: Or Trello is also a good one. 705 00:35:07,436 --> 00:35:08,016 ToDoist. 706 00:35:08,036 --> 00:35:09,266 There's all pros and cons. 707 00:35:09,296 --> 00:35:10,376 None of them are perfect. 708 00:35:10,406 --> 00:35:14,316 None of them are exactly what I want them to be, There's no perfect app, 709 00:35:14,316 --> 00:35:16,026 so stop waiting for the perfect one. 710 00:35:16,056 --> 00:35:17,376 If you wanna use an app, great. 711 00:35:17,376 --> 00:35:18,726 If you wanna use paper, great. 712 00:35:19,426 --> 00:35:21,976 I've, you know, done both over different times. 713 00:35:22,576 --> 00:35:27,316 But you need a system that can then take those things, organize them, and 714 00:35:27,316 --> 00:35:30,856 then you can access them at the times when you need it, because you don't 715 00:35:30,856 --> 00:35:34,306 need the concept of, I need to buy milk, when you're sitting at your desk. 716 00:35:34,306 --> 00:35:35,746 You need that when you're at the grocery store. 717 00:35:35,866 --> 00:35:36,026 Sam: Yeah. 718 00:35:36,106 --> 00:35:38,686 Christina Shenvi: You don't need, like, I need to email this person, 719 00:35:38,686 --> 00:35:39,586 when you're at the grocery store. 720 00:35:39,586 --> 00:35:41,776 You need that when you're at your computer or your phone. 721 00:35:42,476 --> 00:35:47,486 So creating a system that works for you and just continuously adapting 722 00:35:47,486 --> 00:35:50,786 it, you know, whatever works the first time is not gonna be your final system. 723 00:35:51,486 --> 00:35:54,486 So find a system that works for you. 724 00:35:54,846 --> 00:36:01,526 Some other action ideas are to use some time pressure for that project 725 00:36:02,386 --> 00:36:03,306 or thing that you're working on. 726 00:36:03,306 --> 00:36:06,946 One approach that works for a lot of people is the Pomodoro method, 727 00:36:06,946 --> 00:36:11,366 which is setting a timer for 20 or 30 or 50 minutes or maybe an hour and 728 00:36:11,366 --> 00:36:14,906 a half, depending on how much time you want, using some time pressure. 729 00:36:14,906 --> 00:36:18,886 So if you set a timer then now you're like, okay, I'm on the clock. 730 00:36:19,006 --> 00:36:19,936 I've gotta keep moving. 731 00:36:19,966 --> 00:36:25,976 That can help you stay focused or another approach is breaking up big projects 732 00:36:26,036 --> 00:36:28,436 into interim goals with deadlines. 733 00:36:28,676 --> 00:36:31,111 This also helps with what's called the planning fallacy. 734 00:36:31,291 --> 00:36:32,746 I don't know if you've ever heard of that. 735 00:36:32,746 --> 00:36:37,502 That was coined by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky and , one of the best 736 00:36:37,502 --> 00:36:42,752 examples of this is the Sydney Opera House, you know, that iconic building. 737 00:36:43,202 --> 00:36:51,577 And that was historically opened 10 years later than planned, with a budget 738 00:36:51,577 --> 00:36:54,307 of 102 million instead of 7 million. 739 00:36:54,412 --> 00:36:54,562 Sam: Oh 740 00:36:54,607 --> 00:36:57,367 Christina Shenvi: So I'm always thankful that I've never done 741 00:36:57,367 --> 00:37:01,617 something 10 years later and millions and millions of dollars over budget 742 00:37:01,677 --> 00:37:02,167 Sam: Yeah. 743 00:37:02,347 --> 00:37:05,467 Christina Shenvi: But very often I'm like, oh yeah, I'll do this thing 744 00:37:05,467 --> 00:37:10,057 in an hour, and then an hour goes by and I'm like 20% of the way through. 745 00:37:10,957 --> 00:37:17,917 So if you break things down into substeps and sub categories, then you realize, oh 746 00:37:18,317 --> 00:37:20,407 just this first step will take an hour. 747 00:37:20,887 --> 00:37:22,807 And then the second step, how long will that take? 748 00:37:22,957 --> 00:37:27,077 So that can help you better stay motivated and also better 749 00:37:27,077 --> 00:37:29,087 estimate the amount of time. 750 00:37:29,787 --> 00:37:33,717 Sam: So what I'm hearing is you need to design your own app so 751 00:37:33,717 --> 00:37:35,457 that we can all benefit from that. 752 00:37:36,157 --> 00:37:37,042 Christina Shenvi: I don't know, man. 753 00:37:37,142 --> 00:37:40,322 You know, if anyone wants to design an app with me, I'm, I'm there for it. 754 00:37:40,412 --> 00:37:41,132 Sam: Let's do it. 755 00:37:41,192 --> 00:37:41,642 Let's do it. 756 00:37:41,642 --> 00:37:42,212 Ladies and gentlemen. 757 00:37:42,212 --> 00:37:44,112 You heard it here first on EMPlify. 758 00:37:44,462 --> 00:37:47,072 It's coming to your app store immediately. 759 00:37:47,442 --> 00:37:49,832 Okay, so, I need to find a system. 760 00:37:49,832 --> 00:37:53,252 I'm curious now, you said you've tried all kinds of apps and all kinds of systems. 761 00:37:53,252 --> 00:37:57,572 How long did it take before you found your ideal system or whatever it is you use? 762 00:37:57,812 --> 00:38:01,332 Christina Shenvi: You know, I really loved just a paper system for a long time. 763 00:38:02,032 --> 00:38:07,522 And that was working well for me, but decided I wanted to move to a digital 764 00:38:07,522 --> 00:38:13,319 and I'd tried out things like Trello and I think Todoist, maybe Google tasks. 765 00:38:13,319 --> 00:38:13,799 I can't remember. 766 00:38:13,799 --> 00:38:17,499 I tried a bunch of them just so I could be familiar with them, landed on 767 00:38:17,499 --> 00:38:20,049 Microsoft To Do for several reasons. 768 00:38:20,574 --> 00:38:23,484 One is you can make different categories of lists. 769 00:38:23,484 --> 00:38:28,524 So I have like personal things which I'll store, for example, books to read, books 770 00:38:28,524 --> 00:38:33,054 that people have recommended or you know, things that I might wanna write about. 771 00:38:33,414 --> 00:38:37,314 And then I'll have my work tasks, which has various lists, some 772 00:38:37,314 --> 00:38:40,614 of which are shared with other people, if it's a joint project. 773 00:38:40,884 --> 00:38:43,524 And you can assign tasks to different people. 774 00:38:44,224 --> 00:38:48,634 There I'll keep track of, for example, upcoming talks that I'm giving that I 775 00:38:48,634 --> 00:38:53,794 need to write, and when the due dates are for submission or just random tasks 776 00:38:53,794 --> 00:38:57,587 that come into my head when I'm, you know, about to fall asleep or walking 777 00:38:57,587 --> 00:39:01,616 or driving or something, and I'll add them to that to-do list for quick tasks. 778 00:39:02,259 --> 00:39:05,469 And then when I'm doing my shallow work, I can knock some of those out. 779 00:39:05,799 --> 00:39:07,479 It's again, not perfect. 780 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:12,069 I like that you can organize it well, and when you check off a task, it gives a 781 00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:18,144 very satisfying little ding for me, which that is, you know, I think in medicine 782 00:39:18,384 --> 00:39:24,074 we got very programmed during residency to have check boxes and check them off. 783 00:39:24,414 --> 00:39:26,704 So I use that to my advantage. 784 00:39:26,844 --> 00:39:29,244 I love having a checkbox and I love checking it off. 785 00:39:29,574 --> 00:39:33,114 So I then try to use that to motivate myself to do the 786 00:39:33,114 --> 00:39:34,134 things that are on my list. 787 00:39:34,134 --> 00:39:36,884 So again, it's not perfect, but it works for me. 788 00:39:36,954 --> 00:39:39,414 Sam: On a daily basis, when you sit down in the morning and then you're 789 00:39:39,414 --> 00:39:43,734 plotting your schedule for the day and assigning deep and shallow tasks, are you 790 00:39:43,734 --> 00:39:47,454 then referring back to this to-do list and looking at items that are pending? 791 00:39:47,454 --> 00:39:50,457 Or are you building a new list of like, these are today's 792 00:39:50,457 --> 00:39:51,627 items, or how's that working? 793 00:39:52,327 --> 00:39:52,597 Christina Shenvi: Yep. 794 00:39:52,597 --> 00:39:55,957 Typically, if I have a whole day that you know, for example, today I have 795 00:39:55,957 --> 00:39:59,047 maybe seven hours of meetings, so I don't really have any deep work time 796 00:39:59,047 --> 00:40:00,637 today, so it'll be mostly shallow tasks. 797 00:40:01,007 --> 00:40:03,047 So then yes, I'll look at that list and say, okay, what are 798 00:40:03,047 --> 00:40:06,107 the most important shallow tasks that I need to get done today? 799 00:40:06,107 --> 00:40:08,387 Or sometimes they'll come at me through email. 800 00:40:08,387 --> 00:40:10,157 Often shallow tasks come through email. 801 00:40:10,487 --> 00:40:13,187 So what are the shallow tasks that I need to get done there? 802 00:40:13,537 --> 00:40:17,557 And then if I have more time in my day that I'm going to be doing deeper shallow 803 00:40:17,557 --> 00:40:21,337 work, then I'll maybe make a chunk of time for emails and shallow work. 804 00:40:21,707 --> 00:40:26,207 There's a lot of data that, for example, if you check email continuously throughout 805 00:40:26,207 --> 00:40:30,887 the day, you spend more time on email then if you chunk your email times and say, 806 00:40:30,887 --> 00:40:34,907 okay, I'm gonna do shallow work and emails during these times of the day because 807 00:40:34,907 --> 00:40:36,527 we still need to make time to do it, 808 00:40:36,892 --> 00:40:37,222 Sam: Yeah. 809 00:40:37,922 --> 00:40:41,372 Christina Shenvi: But we don't want to it grow and extend into 810 00:40:41,372 --> 00:40:44,876 all of our day and then not do those other more important things 811 00:40:45,550 --> 00:40:49,750 Sam: So like I'm imagining a future where, you know, some AI, the chat GPT or 812 00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:54,145 Claude or Gemini or somebody I can just turn to and say, Hey, look, I need an 813 00:40:54,145 --> 00:40:56,365 hour today of deep focus on this topic. 814 00:40:56,515 --> 00:40:59,945 Put this into my schedule, and then remind me when I'm at Publix 815 00:40:59,945 --> 00:41:01,531 that I need to buy some milk today 816 00:41:02,111 --> 00:41:02,801 Christina Shenvi: Absolutely. 817 00:41:02,801 --> 00:41:04,131 Sam: And just have it do it for me. 818 00:41:04,201 --> 00:41:07,411 Christina Shenvi: There are programs out there that are saying they're using AI to 819 00:41:07,411 --> 00:41:09,211 help you schedule and things like that. 820 00:41:09,211 --> 00:41:10,711 I have not explored those yet. 821 00:41:10,711 --> 00:41:11,671 I love AI. 822 00:41:11,671 --> 00:41:16,681 ChatGPT and I are BFFs, but I haven't used it that much for actually 823 00:41:16,681 --> 00:41:17,761 integrating with my schedule. 824 00:41:17,761 --> 00:41:19,411 So that'll be the next iteration. 825 00:41:20,191 --> 00:41:25,995 Sam: Okay so I need, first, better control of my own mind and my own mental space. 826 00:41:26,415 --> 00:41:32,795 Second, I need some kind of system to organize my deep and shallow focus tasks. 827 00:41:32,915 --> 00:41:37,575 And third, I need to make sure that I am in a distraction free 828 00:41:37,575 --> 00:41:41,245 zone when I'm sitting down to do my deep tasks so that I can't get 829 00:41:41,245 --> 00:41:43,315 distracted and taken off of track. 830 00:41:43,615 --> 00:41:45,775 Does that sound like a good three steps there? 831 00:41:46,375 --> 00:41:47,485 Christina Shenvi: Absolutely. 832 00:41:47,515 --> 00:41:51,018 And you can train your brain to focus better. 833 00:41:51,681 --> 00:41:52,958 Focus is like a muscle. 834 00:41:53,228 --> 00:41:58,028 So the more that we focus and the more we train our brains, it can become our 835 00:41:58,118 --> 00:42:02,798 superpower so that then you can make time for more of the things that matter to you. 836 00:42:02,888 --> 00:42:08,418 And I know, in EM especially, we often joke, oh, I'm so ADHD , and I think 837 00:42:08,418 --> 00:42:13,368 there is actually some evidence that more people who do have diagnoses of ADHD go 838 00:42:13,368 --> 00:42:16,678 into emergency medicine because there's something there that attracts them. 839 00:42:17,098 --> 00:42:17,878 Sam: The stimulation. 840 00:42:18,462 --> 00:42:20,862 Christina Shenvi: Yeah, the constant stimulation, the constant urgency. 841 00:42:21,222 --> 00:42:26,412 However, the challenge is then switching gears to doing deep work or 842 00:42:26,412 --> 00:42:28,042 something that requires deep focus. 843 00:42:28,042 --> 00:42:32,752 That can feel really challenging, especially for people who have 844 00:42:32,752 --> 00:42:38,782 ADHD distraction can be even more detrimental when you're trying to focus. 845 00:42:38,932 --> 00:42:39,652 You know, it varies. 846 00:42:39,652 --> 00:42:42,295 There's a whole variety of how it manifests with people. 847 00:42:42,295 --> 00:42:46,272 But for some people with ADHD they have an ability to really hyperfocus 848 00:42:46,302 --> 00:42:50,112 on certain things, but distraction can be even more detrimental. 849 00:42:50,112 --> 00:42:53,982 So I think about it like a train, you know, it takes a while to get up to speed. 850 00:42:54,442 --> 00:42:58,612 If you're stopping every two miles, you're never gonna really get up to speed. 851 00:42:58,912 --> 00:43:03,542 So creating a long track, working on our engines so that we can get up to 852 00:43:03,542 --> 00:43:08,852 speed and really focus is something that can help transform our ability to 853 00:43:08,882 --> 00:43:13,536 be productive and to then make time for other things that are important to us. 854 00:43:14,378 --> 00:43:14,858 Sam: Awesome. 855 00:43:15,373 --> 00:43:17,503 Well, honestly, this has been tremendously helpful. 856 00:43:17,663 --> 00:43:23,197 I don't think I've ever sat down to devote this much attention to the 857 00:43:23,197 --> 00:43:28,317 process of scheduling my day and my tasks and building the priority 858 00:43:28,317 --> 00:43:29,337 of things that are important to me. 859 00:43:29,487 --> 00:43:30,837 I really, really like this. 860 00:43:31,177 --> 00:43:34,777 So let's say you're one of our listeners and this also resonates with you. 861 00:43:35,137 --> 00:43:39,667 Where can they go to find you maybe engage you as a personal 862 00:43:39,667 --> 00:43:40,687 coach or take the course? 863 00:43:40,687 --> 00:43:41,377 Tell me more about that. 864 00:43:41,572 --> 00:43:42,322 Christina Shenvi: Absolutely. 865 00:43:42,348 --> 00:43:45,228 You know, Sam, this is the life changing magic of learning how to 866 00:43:45,228 --> 00:43:47,118 focus and prioritize and strategize. 867 00:43:47,488 --> 00:43:52,678 You can find me on my website, which is timeforyourlife.org, and that 868 00:43:52,678 --> 00:43:56,423 has a link to my online course, which has about 16 hours or 12 hours 869 00:43:56,548 --> 00:43:58,798 I can't remember, of CME content. 870 00:43:58,858 --> 00:44:01,658 And also you can find how to contact me there. 871 00:44:01,658 --> 00:44:03,068 I would love to hear from listeners. 872 00:44:03,533 --> 00:44:05,663 Sam: Awesome, and we'll put that in the show notes. 873 00:44:05,693 --> 00:44:10,013 Christina, thank you so much for spending the time and sharing your wisdom with us. 874 00:44:10,013 --> 00:44:12,083 This has been very helpful for me. 875 00:44:12,083 --> 00:44:13,643 I really appreciate you being on the podcast. 876 00:44:14,108 --> 00:44:14,708 Christina Shenvi: It's a pleasure. 877 00:44:14,708 --> 00:44:15,638 Thanks for having me, Sam. 878 00:44:15,988 --> 00:44:16,768 Sam: And that's a wrap. 879 00:44:16,808 --> 00:44:19,428 Thanks for joining us for this episode of EMPlify. 880 00:44:19,448 --> 00:44:24,075 I hope you found it informative, and I want to remind you that ebmedicine.net 881 00:44:24,325 --> 00:44:29,185 is your one stop shop for all of your CME needs, whether that be for emergency 882 00:44:29,185 --> 00:44:31,005 medicine or urgent care medicine. 883 00:44:31,285 --> 00:44:34,815 There are three journals, there's tons of CME, there's lots of 884 00:44:34,845 --> 00:44:38,605 courses, there's so many clinical pathways, all this information at 885 00:44:38,605 --> 00:44:41,445 your fingertips at ebmedicine.net. 886 00:44:41,845 --> 00:44:44,285 Until next time, everyone, I'm your host, Sam Ashoo. 887 00:44:44,625 --> 00:44:45,185 Be safe.