Just a little bit overcook cooked.
I don't think you need to race e
bikes to sell bikes. We've had it
easy. Like, I don't wanna finish your race
and feel like it was easy. Yeah. Like,
that is to me not a woke cup.
Yeah. I think that we are just at
the whim of a big
corporation now.
Hey, everyone. I'm Chris Hall, and this is
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Alright. Today, we're joined by Star, Jesse Mill.
After winning the overall in 20 22, Jesse
made a big move from Rocky Mountain into
Canyon. So we sat down to see how
it's going. Here how Jesse has chosen him
and set up his bike for the season.
We discussed some of the changes he's made
over the past year, and the influence that
Fabian has had on that too. We talk
about what it takes to win an Edi
these days is along with discussing in the
state of the sport, the impact of E
bike racing, and we'll find out if we'll
see jesse racing downhill anytime soon.
So without further ado, here's Jessie Mill.
Jesse Mill. Welcome back to the downtime podcast,
we're just trying to work out. I think
this might be appearance number 4. Could be.
Yeah. They can seasoned podcast professional now. I
guess so thanks for having me. Nice to
your good person. So, yeah, Looking forward to.
Yeah. And you've been polishing your podcast technique.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With a few others throughout
the years as well. Yeah. It's been good.
Excellent. Well, last time we sat down and
chat, it was just kinda after you'd announce
that you joined Canyon. Mh. And you
turned up for the first couple of races
of the 20 23 season
on the spectrum. Mh.
Which was a decision, I think based around,
like, maybe derby needing or benefiting for something
as a bit more to travel.
But you didn't... As in true, Jesse style
that wasn't like, a fully stock. Why cause
it. Tell us a little bit about what
you've done with that to get it where
you wanted to be in those this first
couple of rounds. Yeah. Not too much. I
think we just overs stroke it, so Got
a little bit more travel in the rear.
For me at the time that was just
like the...
Yeah. The best fitting bike most suited to
derby,
a little to I know that Nadine medina
was quite the opposite. I was way,
under bike.
So at Hindsight, it was...
Yeah. I proven Derby, It was good with
the third place, but, maybe, I think I
was eighteenth in 1 of my worst results
in a long time. So,
I just got
rattled at that race. Yeah. But so was
that that was sick race. You think it
was a bike bike decision kinda error that
1 or
I also had some some mistakes. I flooded
somewhat on 1 of the stage and then
I... This, like, I've smoked a tree so
hard and, like,
somehow
didn't knock myself out, but I lost a
bunch of time. So I wanna say to
that race and I think I would have
been
I actually... I don't know. But I I
would have had the tons for like a
top 5. So I would have been there.
Yeah. The bike just made it a little
bit more difficult. It was just super long
stages super rough, and
that bike really
was really fast when you're precise with it
and could, like, direct it and it just...
It didn't have much room for air. Yeah.
For. Honestly gonna be rough track. It was.
You nearly had a big error at 1
point. Was a video of that. Yeah. You
say. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. So
just a little bit overcook overworked
a little bit. And the winter gym weren't
paid off though, like, you managed to write
out. Yeah. That stuff you came and train
for. You just like your cat reflex take
over.
Very impressive. So, yeah, I think it's eighteenth
or nineteenth that first round like, And that's
your first chance to prove yourself new bike.
It's where you kinda see, you know, how's
everyone's off season training paid off where do
I stack up and, yep. Nineteenth, obviously, not
the place you wanna be. How do you
process that and deal with that, especially when
you're back to back straight into the next
race. It sounds like you you've taken some
positives out of the stage win and and
done analysis on your pace and stuff. I
think that's a nice thing with End duo,
and it would be the same thing with
like split times and downhill. You get
1 marker of... Or you get multiple markers
of, like, where you stand. So I knew
with the stage win. I knew like that
bike felt so good. And I was, okay.
I I'm there. I have the speed. I
just have to, like,
not be a g for a weekend and
and figure it out. So I was pretty
happy in in Derby.
Third place was really good, especially against people
who had been there previously. So
I felt really good with that result. And
then
backed up even further at with it went
on the third race So... Yeah. It was
that your first time in Derby.
No. I've been there before, but people had
been there, like, the week before. So you
mean, yeah. Yeah. But pre. Just the age
old debate around that side of things. Yeah.
But, yeah, that also look like an incredible
event like the buzz in those first 2
rounds that which made. Tasmania is amazing. Like,
Ever since we've gone to Derby the first
year. The Craftsman been amazing,
the trail building is
like, world class. It's insane what they've done
with place. Like, me... Derby,
that train is... You look at this halo
I not expect that much in there, and
then you go riding there and it's mind
blowing. Like, it's actually so good. They've done
such a good job and they Made medina,
way big a hill and same thing. They've
just done an insane job with the trails
there. Definitely on the list of places to
visit thing after watching watching.
Yeah.
I would say it's worth it. My actually,
my brother and his girlfriend did a full
on
tripped out New Zealand and Australia and Tasmania
in the winter, and they went to Derby
and they loved it. Yeah. Damn. Definitely get
there 1 day. Did you change anything coming
into that second round then to get that
third? Was it a different approached like a
bit more measured? Or... No. I've seen, Jesse.
It seems like my
I don't I wouldn't... I don't know. Like,
it's happening this year too. It's like, everything
is there. I just need to
somehow align myself with
putting it together. Like, I know I have
all the pieces and so that was the
same thing I was like, okay. It's really
just trusting yourself and, like, you have an
off and you're, like,
either you're off, either you're off it, but
I I didn't feel like that, so it
was just like, okay. Trust the process, Go
through the same thing, and I didn't change
a thing and and had the third. So
that's what all the work does. It allows
you to trust that you are fit. You've
done everything you can on the bike.
You've worked with the team around you and
you just know that you have everything and
you
trust the process, do the same thing and
know that it'll work out. Yeah. But that's
hard, right. If the results aren't there. I
get I guess you've always been notifying Yeah.
Glimmer like you said there's more data from
an enjoy that can give you that confidence
that... Yeah. I think that I've been doing
it for long enough that I know the
difference between
being on pace, but missing out rather than
just being off pace and not knowing why.
K. So I think I have a better
understanding of that.
And I'm sure we'll get into it for
this year, but I I'm struggling more with
that this year? And I having in a
while. Definitely talk about that. Is there a
risk with, like,
force creating false confidence for yourself because you
wanna go into this with a positive mindset.
Sir, you're looking at the data try and
find reasons to believe the process.
Is there a risk that you can
kit almost kid yourself into believing it when
you do need to change something. Does that
make sense? Yeah. Yeah. No. A hundred percent,
and I think
it's really hard to figure that out and
you you see that if you look at...
Like, if you deep app on anyone's Instagram
that, like, isn't really performing that I want
to. Like, you can see the
the little markers, and it's really hard to
know because you're, like, you know you can
do it. And so it's just doing the
same thing, but what... Like, what's the definition
of crazy or something like been the same
thing over and over getting spending different results.
So it's really how to know
yeah at what point you have to make
a a big change and
I think, like, yeah. Like I said, with,
you you know based on stage results. Like,
you rather have some good ones and you're
like, okay, like it's. I just seem to,
like, channel that more often.
So
it's definitely... That's like, that's probably the hardest.
The hardest thing is
to first, like, find your way to go
fast and then
to continue to do that and just trust,
like, when things are going off track
to trust your instinct of, like, Do you
just
trust the way you've been doing things or
does it require a change? Yeah. Do you...
When you're doing the, like, the deep dive
after an event or after a season looking
at those results and trying to find those
indicators of where you're at. Is that done
on your own? Or do you have other
people that you trust that you can sit
down and go through that with to give
that Guess that bigger perspective because your,
has an athlete naturally very kind of tunnel
vision I guess on what you. I'm super
grateful for the people that have around me,
and
there's a few in, like, different areas, you
know,
Tara
is more than just, you know, she's our
team busier and and the road manager and
but she's also, like, somewhat my performance coach
in the way. Like, she has learned so
much to all the different jobs that she's
had and she keeps me on track with
all, like, the high performance things that I
can be doing. And then my brother is
huge in
analyzing what I'm doing and how I look
and is really just...
He's a really good positive reinforcement,
and
he's, yeah. Good at being
both biased down bias because I'm his brother,
but,
yeah. Even like, this this past weekend, he
was, like, really positive. I was like, no.
You looked, like, really good and it's there.
Just kinda gotta figure it out. So I
really trust him. I always, like, send him
footage and I just always ask, like, how
do I look? And then I have my
parents as well. So... And then and then
my friends as well. So it's I have
quite a few people. Yeah. What about Fabian?
Like, how does he fit into the picture?
Because obviously, he's... It feels like his main
focus is maybe more on the downhill side,
but, obviously, super invested in. Well, he was
a huge help in, like, last year. Yeah.
He
invested a ton inter into our team
all through the winter last year to get
me up to speed, and we could see
that in in taking wins last year, and
I I wouldn't have been able to do
that without with him. He, like, he is
an insane amount of knowledge, and he's just
he's so get he's ruthless in, like, he's
ruthless in the changes that he'll make. You'll
say something and you'll be scared to go
like, 1 click this way and he'll be
like, why. Go 5.
And then he just like, do it and
like, oh, shit. That was actually really good.
So... Yeah. This year, he's definitely more focused
on Downhill, but he's,
I called him yesterday. I'm always able to
just call him I mean, he's he's it's
it's
impressive at how
in tune he is with everything.
And
I got a lot out of just speaking
with him and he's very good. He's just
reassuring me, and,
we did 1 day with him after
Who was that after poland before Leah getting
last block. And, yeah, both me and Jack
like made had huge changes to our bikes
because of him and both felt like way
better. So... Yeah. Yeah. He's a pretty
pretty valuable person to have on your side
A bit of experiences near that guy. Have
you if you changed anything about your... Either
you're like race craft or your kind of
setup approach as a result of working with
Fabian. Is this stuff you've learned that you
now do differently? Yeah. There's a few
key, like, body position things that he's he's
changed with me and and bike set up
as well.
In terms of raised craft, I think he
knows that I have that.
When I came in, I think they were
very aware that I just won the championship.
So
they didn't wanna change too much break. Yeah.
And even now he's still just like, he's
like, I know you're gonna fight for and
I trust you have no, like, lack of
motivation, so it's just trying to figure out
where is, like, the slight happening. So... Yeah.
Yeah. Little things here in there. Tell us
about the body position stuff then what have
you tweaked? If I get my secrets away.
But what can you tell us what you
willing to share, Jesse? No. It's just like,
a big thing was
kinda pressure on the pedals and the handlebars
and really balancing that out. Okay. Balance that
out well. And I feel like that's something
that I've always
naturally gotten well because I I've always tried
to find a bike setup that is obviously
fast, but mainly
comfortable and
saving. You know, I want it to be,
like, you're... We're we're going so deep in
these stages that you can't think you can't
breathe then you're just, like, coming to a
corner out of control and you need your
bike to just be there for you. And
so as along the same lines of how
do we do that? But now we're trying
to, like, kind of stiffer my suspension up
because I've I've always done a very, like,
soft, comfortable setup, so I can do whatever
I want. But to try to increase peak
speed. We're going a little bit stiffer so
I can go over the bumps over the
months faster. So Yeah just managing that with
the bar bar roll,
and then, yeah. Suspension balance?
Interesting. So a combination of all that stuff
so that you're more comfortable with a stiffer.
Mh. Stiffer ride. Yeah. Yeah. Has that been
hard because I, like,
I don't know about you, but, like, I've,
I guess, I've always ridden the same sort
of weight so long.
But to reprogram something like that is quite.
Yeah hard to do. But that's the thing
is, you know,
when I made the move originally, it was
what was gonna give me a better chance
to continue to win, and this is what
I thought. And I think that at 1
point, I had to set up that 1,
but there's no
reason to suggest I would have kept winning.
Yeah. You look at Richie now. He's he's
gone even further. You have to continuously
improve and progress. And so I think this
is the way, and I've this past week
weekend and I felt, like, really good on
my bike. And so I think...
Yeah. If that's, like the risk you take
of
trying to progress isn't always going to, like,
work out the way you want it to,
but you have to, like, try and see
if it works and if it doesn't then
you then you go back to what you
had and you go different directions. So it's
a constant, like, game of
what does what look like? Yeah. And it
can take time. Right? Some I don't know
about you again, but sometimes I find if
I wanna change something.
I can't do it at, like, full pace.
Mh. Because my brain, you're in, like, a
flow state then and you're not really conscious
of what you're doing, you just running off
instinct. I feel like I have to slow
it down,
reprogram
a position or a movement or an approach.
Yeah. And then speed it back up. Like,
have you felt like you've had to do
that? Or do you feel like you can
make changes
at race pace?
Depends what kind of change we're making.
I'm pretty good at
when the clock starts, like, everything goes out
the window and I can just ride my
bike as as fast as I can and
I'll know whether that works or not because
I'll
I'll just be making more mistakes basically than
than not. Yeah. So I I think I
can do that, But, yeah. Totally. I mean,
to your point,
in Leo gang, anna not Leo Gang. Poland
was a big struggle for us because we're
a bike stolen and oh, yeah. I think
it was underestimated how
hard it is to
get a brand new bike, brand new everything
and set that up because I just felt
like I was chasing this feeling that
I had on my previous bike, and,
yeah, that was where I felt like I
couldn't change anything
without it affecting something else because nothing was
set, you know, like, our roll grip roll,
like, the 1 in grips, the the break,
Like, everything, like, you can measure this stuff,
but
it's really hard to get it exactly the
same, and it was just in my head
and I just really struggled to, like, make
that by comfortable. So I couldn't change this
suspension because
I changed suspension, it would make something else
feel bad and I was changing bars and
it was just a a mess. So that
1 was a tough 1, and I think
that's
that continued on that whole block. And then
now I'm finally at a point where I,
like, settled in my bike, and I'm like,
okay. I can start changing things because
I know everything else is is to the
point where I want it to be. Yeah.
And I guess even down to the frame.
Right? Like every manufacturer has a tolerance on
stuff. Totally. So, like, an angle could be
ever so slightly different. Maybe not so much
in carbon, but definitely in a male frame.
But and also carbon lay. So I don't
know how much
Of those are still done by hand. Like
I know some of it's quite sort of
labor intensive process and Yeah. A bit of
even it's slightly a different material, You know,
the materials come off a different role knows.
Yeah. Yeah. Can feel different as stiffness could
be different. Yep. Polar.
What, yeah. What a mission to do. Yeah.
No. I I don't I don't like changing
by history be honest. And what about grips?
Like, when they've worn out, like, a either
sort of person to run them to the
death because you become become 1 with them
or... Yeah. I'm trying not to be. I'm
trying to, like, I'm I've been doing a
lot of, like, cutting to my grips to
get them pre 1. Okay. So I can
get a new bet, like, new set of
grips out and put them on because, like,
don't crash and you know, rip your grips,
and then you need to put in new
set on so. Yeah. Yeah. I have... I
think I've figured out a way to get
a brand new set of grips and put
them on and they feel pretty good. Yeah.
So you're trying to make your, like, approach
more robust I guess. If you know you
can pick something off the shelf from Get
it where you want. Yeah... Yeah. What about
things like bar rolling and stuff because they
you say it's so subtle
Is perfect. I don't mean like, at I
don't know who
told me, but it's like the laser etching
on the bars. Like, the the cost to
get that
that as precise as you want it to
is too high. No manufacturer actually, like, does
it. So... And I've seen it on the
bars that we've had, like, 1 at 1
tick, it'll be at 1 way, and then
we put it to another tick or another
bar at the same tick, and it was
just totally off and Also so now, I
just like, don't trust it. And... Yeah. Yeah.
That's like, the the fact that your hands
when you change by role is pretty major.
Yeah. So... And the way you feel fatigued.
Right? The way the bar moves under your
hands, like, yeah, the flag the impact flex
everything's totally different. Yeah.
Yeah. But we're good now. The... The doesn't
get steep. So, yeah, 20 23, then we
did the first couple of races on the
on the spectral. When did you move across
to the drive? Was there like, a planned
point at which you're gonna switch?
Yep. The whole point the whole plan was
to do Tasmania on the special because I
thought it was better suited. I didn't know
At the time. But... Yeah I think That
was right call. And then as soon as
I could, I think when I got home,
I was on the drive. Okay. I'm pretty
happy straight away. Yeah. And again, like, was
there much
worked while they will have been worked done,
but did you did you stray far away
from kind of production action with that bike.
Was there anything special about what you did.
And I've got on that bike, and I
was, like, super happy
straight away. I think I got it. Did
a did the sq duo.
Unfortunately on a mechanical. I'm, like, another thing,
but
I won a bunch of the stages, and
I just felt like, so at home on
that bike and so that was that was
really cool. And that's the same feeling I
had when I wrote it
end of 20 22 when I tested it.
And
yeah. No. I was pretty happy. And then
the changes
throughout that season, we're just, we got that
new vivid when it came out
new Fork when it came out.
And and that kind of stuff. But Yeah.
Kind of
always been kind of progressing and improving it.
Yeah. What frame size do you well? Smallest
possible list it and you've got
readjust. Yeah. If you got that. That's it's
like, 10 mills total, I think. So that's
in the shortest obviously. Yeah. Okay. Fair. Because
they are they a long frame. Yeah. Yeah.
Mh. Did you play around? Did you try
a medium or your... Have you just got
a small
small is similar to the
Rocky medium that I on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And so come through from the get go
on that. What about the shape shift? So
they've got this functionality to kind of adjust
the angles of the bike a bit when
you're climbing and Yep. Change quite a few
different things. Do you run that in race
scenario? It's obviously it's adding a bit of
weight and
something else that could break them. Not. I
I think it's a really good tool for
making an bike less like an bike when
you're climbing. Yeah. So I use it at
every transfer stage because it
I should know the numbers on this, but
it's at least a degree steeper,
hundred and 40 miles of rear travel more
annie squat, so it just really props you
up. Yeah. And it just puts you in
such a better position. So when we're doing
what we did 16, 7 centimeters meters of
climbing last weekend and
for
that amount of climbing,
having
yourself in, like, a more trail position is
just is super nice. And then
for a lot of
sprints that we have, like if it's a
long fire road or Steep climb, I'll I'll
switch it as well just because again, it
puts you in a more aggressive position. Yes.
Stage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was impressed with
how well that bike climbs full stocks to
be honest, Even without shift shift engaging. The
thing is you don't actually need... It's not
making the suspension...
It is me even suspension platform
more efficient, but Yes. It's really just for
the geo change. I feel like, Okay. Do
you think it saves
energy from a per perspective which is just
more comfortable. I think it has to. Because
I think it's like, you know, on a
note, in Bike you're kind of just, like,
sag back and it just Yeah. Just this
feeling. And so as soon as I put
that up, I just feel way more upright,
and I feel more... Like, if you ride
Next you, like, it just kinda begs you
to push harder because you're in such a,
like, a aggressive position. So I feel like
that on this drive. Yeah. Shape shift on.
And Pietro was that the first round then
on the strike.
Yeah. And straight on the top step. Yeah.
That was a good feeling. Yeah. That's the
felt good. Did you did you kinda know
you're on for? Did you feel like you're
in the zone that time? No, but it's
just like that. It's just that
what would you call like the this the
the storm of the perfect storm of getting
a new bike feeling good on it. Feeling
like it's better.
Progressing, progressing progressing, just go to the world
cup, ride it, feel good. Win the race.
Like I it just... It it was just
like this upward trajectory, and I mean, I
didn't think I was gonna win. I just,
yeah. I felt really good and things came
together. Yeah. Do you look at your times?
Do you know where you're at when you're
on the bike. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kinda
need to know
Yeah. When things are going well, you'd like
to know because
you'd hope to see yourself, like, winning a
stage. Just something. Yeah I'm on it. But
when things are not going well,
like, recently, you need to see it and
be like, okay. Like, as close, but I
I need to, like, eat out a little
bit more here. So you're making changes throughout
the day based on where your numbers are
at. Kind thing. Yeah. Do you think that
is everyone doing that now?
Or is there a depending on your psychology
kind of thing? Like, Jack doesn't... He doesn't
like to know? Yeah.
So I would say sometimes,
it depends what kind of
I guess, process goal you have for the
race. Like, if if you're just trying to
put together a
smooth race where you wanna ride a certain
way and you have this process. You don't
want stage results to get in the way
and and kind of ruin your process because
you might see a bad 1 And then
change it, then you have even worse 1.
So, you know,
I've
Yeah. I've been all over the map, but
I think if you have a certain goal
out of the weekend, you don't really wanna
look. Yep. Yeah. So you take the win,
got this insane, like, you're on the top
of the wave of confidence. Mh. Is it
hard to stay there? Obviously, they're and they're
coming into lawyers. Yeah. Yeah. I think,
yeah. You just...
I don't know if you become
cocky or confident or what it is, but
you're just like, oh, yeah. Like,
I I got this. And
I would say Leo gang,
that was a really tough track to
attack. It was...
It's not like the most
bike I would say, this not a word,
but, like,
finale just tons of bike trails. Yeah. Those
things just make sense. You can just carve
things that
Leo Gang was weird hiking trails and as
soon as I started to, like, push and
attack. You just make a mistake and then
you're kinda like... It's not that you crash.
You just... You start getting, like, offline because
there's all these off camera root sections in
no support, and then you just, like off
track and so I struggled to put it
together at that 1 for you. And it
was pretty gently tape Was coming in and
out of light bike putt. But that was
stage 1. Yeah. Yeah. Not of that 1
They took it out this year. So that
was good. That's an improvement. Yeah. And then...
Yeah. Kind of back on the up through
the middle part of the season out of
Faster.
Mh. Fifth at both of those. Is fifth
the result that you can walk away happy
with these days or are you... Is that
kinda not
depends on... So Ken as I I was
fighting
for
I was on the podium. I believe going
to the last stage and then I just,
like,
fully blew up. That was a
that was a bike setup up mistake at
that 1, and I got, like, crazy arm
pump and just got so. The last stages
is
I don't know, 11:12 minutes. Like such a
long stage. It starts, like, high up in
this it's beautiful.
Lot of breaking these tight corners, and then
it's really physical all the way to the
finish and
I just blew up halfway down and lost
a ton of time.
So I I could've have... I think I
I was on page for second with that
1, and I ended up fifth, so not
happy with that 1. Was a fork setup
up. Thing then? Yeah. Yeah. I just where
where would you go too far?
Finale, I ran a pretty soft set up
because it was
just lots of corner and flat corners. And
I just wanted my fork low to, like,
really lean up over the front of the
bike and get good corner traction.
Leo gang, I I upped it because it
was a little bit rough, but didn't have
a good Leo gang. So, I'm gonna go
back to Now I set up. Which was
just... I mean, I should know better at
this point, but just a dumb
dumb decision knowing that Can Eye was steeper
and rough.
It was fine for at the stage. Like
I said I was doing well. I think
I was sitting and... I don't... I think
I sitting in second. And
just for whatever reason I just
road the last age and Okay. Because I
I knew, like, the last year, when I
was fighting Richie back and forth,
I had lost
bunch of time on that stage. And so,
like, this year I was, okay, I want
to prove that I can win this stage
to myself. Yeah. So I just attacked it.
And, yeah, Just blew up and that was
that was not bad. So running that soft,
like softer.
Are you just sing we just sing too
deep into it? So blowing through travel. Like
I said it was this high high, like,
speed bridge line, and then you showed to
go to these
steep stepping switch backs, and so you'd be
breaking fork diving and just having a grips
so hard to not blow out the front.
Yeah. And I'm someone who's always struggled with
eye pump. So, yeah. That just totally blew
me up. Yeah. For Yeah. But then Lu
fifth, I was stoked with because
stoked ish where.
No. I think I I think I rode
well at that 1 and I was a
bunch of french in front of me. So...
Yeah.
Hard to beat them on their home track
there. So I was I was decently happy
with that 1. The trial was there. They're
really good. Yeah. Yeah. The first race wasn't...
We had a lot more like,
there's, like, 2 sides of the hair, like,
the downhill side, the downhill tracks on the
lift access bike side. Don't love those, but
on the other side it's a lot more
natural 30 steep stuff. Yeah. And they added
1 on the other side that was, like,
just sick. Just like, almost a... It was
like, a half lung
and then
really good building trail and, yeah,
It's super fun. Sounds good. And then finish
the season with another win. Mh. Yeah. So
that was that was a good feeling. Yeah.
The... Works, it's the perfect end to a
season. It's other than taking the overall obviously,
which is what you're, I guess, therefore ultimately.
But to walk away from the end of
a season with that, we must feel good.
Yep. Yeah. No. It was awesome. I think
it just proved again that everything was there.
I just had to put it together, and,
I think
after
Lu vale. I I think I rode...
I thought I was riding fast, and I,
again, Had a stage win at that 1,
so I knew the speed was there.
But I was just being a little bit
cautious. And so
last versus season. I think I was in...
I might have been fourth at that point.
And I was like, well, fourth means nothing.
I'd rather, like, finish on the overall podium
or not? Yeah. So I just attacked and
went old in, and it worked, which is
nice. Yeah. Very nice. So
what do you do then coming out of
a season after you've had a little bit
of a break, I'm sure, but how do
you reflect back and look at? Okay. How
did this go? Now that we've got some
space from it all. And what do I
wanna do this winter whether that's, you know,
bikes set up,
the mental side of things, the physical side
of things. How do you,
you know, plan your off season goals based
on your previous season's before? Yeah. I think
I had spent a lot of the previous
winter on bike setup because it was a
huge change. So
I did a ton that winter to figure
out
how I wanted
all like, new parts and and and product
set up. So
I wanted to spend more time on the
physical side of things just because I had
done so much product side. And so
we just find a bunch of, road training
camps with my friends and
just kinda wanted to have fun with the
fitness side of things and then ramp up
the
technical side,
leading end of the season? Yeah. Do you
think the physical side of things has changed
much in the last few years. We feel
like we've settled now more on this
like, shorter, more intense
format of endurance seems to be a bit
consistent whereas previously, we were up and down
from big day short ones. Yeah. I think
that
my training hasn't changed too much because
I think that going forward, we're going back
to the long. Like, We saw some of
them last year, and that's the the goal
is to have these longer, bigger days.
And so,
my training hasn't stray too much. I'm just
being able to do a really big day
with
as much intense as I can in that
day. So... Yeah. Yep. I still focus on
that. And and bikes wise, again, have you,
like, evolved anything over this winter.
No. Just still getting, like, new product from
some of the sponsors and
comparing it team as better and and trying
to trying to constantly improve. Yeah. Yeah. So
I was lucky...
I felt good Like, I I knew that
the the bike was dialed and
it was hard to find things to test.
Be like, okay. Like, he just
just testing things for the sake of testing
things, and I was able to test some
things that gave me some insight onto certain
things, and
they... I don't think I really changed
anything
going into this season
even though I tested a bunch of other
stuff I think. I pretty happy. They you
are you the sort of rider that
runs a fairly consistent set up from venue
to venue
or you the sort of person that will
spend the off season kind of book ending
and working things out so that you know
where to move things that you wanna move
when you get to venue. Yeah. I mean,
that's kinda what tested, like, I I went
to Pe, pre season Pe just north of
of whistler and it's a lot sand dryer,
looser.
And so I was testing some things for
finale because finale is a lot more like
that. So it was wheels and tires and
seeing what I could get away with, but
and there a funny 1 because
it's so much racing time that
comfort or just familiarity
I think really shines through anything else. So
Yeah. I was trying
like, wider
wider rims with D two's like faster rolling
to see if that would, like, work and
you're just sacrificing on on fuel. And I
know the Downhill guys like love those tires.
So I But I I just stuck to
my ass guy I front in D 2
rear. Yeah had the note the well known
combination. Yeah. You been plan with spoke counts
stuff far that intentions That was, like the
previous winter. Yeah. Okay. But just settled on,
28 haul, 47 ones. So front and rear.
Yeah. So that... And is that in a
search for some level of
to reflect compliance. Yeah. Yeah. Compliance and I
felt, like, for me, the 05:11
is what I was on in the winter
before Or, I guess the the the beginning
of the winter, and I honestly, like, they're
too strong for me. Like, I'm like at
I led a guy, and I was like,
You know, I I shouldn't be... I want
my wheels to just make it through it
every weekend.
So... Yeah. We went later. Lighter and and
more compliant. Yeah. Makes total sense. And was
the strive, the obvious choice because spectral of
kind of dropped down in travel
positioned it closer to trail bike category these
days I guess. So. Yeah. Driver like doesn't
feel
it's hundred and 60 males, and it doesn't
feel like too much bike ever. So... Yeah.
Yeah. I'm I'm super happy with it still.
Like I
if I'm if I'm
lost on set up, which sometimes I get
to, I'm struggling with a bike, but when
I'm on set up,
I really, like... Yeah. I feel like it's
a... It's actually really, really get like... Yeah.
Have you played with the kiss this keep
it stable system at all they do an
external or Yep. In pro product prototype site.
They have an external version of thing. Yeah.
I won nationals on that last year actually.
Okay. So I've had it.
And I haven't actually had on my bike
recently, but we're
still
looking at the
I guess the the potential with that system
and and what it should look like. Mh.
But yeah, I think I found
at home, like, on trails that I knew
with good support. I really liked it. Yeah.
It just really helps connect like the front
and the back of the bike and you
can just, like, smear it through corners and
and I really enjoyed it. But when I'm
in places especially like last weekend when it's
really
loose and
you're always struggling with front wheel traction, it
it kind of like
just... It didn't... It doesn't perform the way
that I wanted to. It kinda ticks away
from from the feeling. So... Okay. Certain aspects
I have on my e bike actually, and
I keep it on my bike all the
time.
For some for some reason, like, the
the flop of... Because you bikes heavier, like,
the flop of it, Like, you can just
lean the bike in really just like
really like makes sense the hogs the bayer
air the flop on an e bike always
feel especially the further you lean the more
aggressive that flop gets. And I think because
the the, like, back into the bike. Or
the the middle of the bike is so
heavy and so dominant.
It helps connect the front to that. So
Yeah. The front can sometimes feel like really
floppy. And so now, like, the whole bike
is just quite stable and and smooth. So
interesting. I really like it. Yeah. I try
to I did some fairly limited, but did
some back to back with it, and it
was definitely...
Like, we were riding quite a muddy rudd
track. Yeah. And for me, it really helps
Yeah. In confidence to be able to stay
in that rut and not get a bit
out of control, like it just... The bikes
seems to go where you wanted it to
and not
wiggle a bit more but. Yeah. And it's
interesting because we're seeing admittedly it's not a
damper that Mh. The Canyon version. We are
starting to see some steering dampers now at
the end insurers. Like, yeah. What have you
been able to speak to the riders they're
using them and what what are they
looking for with those because they're adding weight,
which no 1 wants to do. Right? Yeah.
I think we've gone back to the...
Who cares about weight.
Type type thinking. I don't know. I think
we want good good products and know bike
that are durable. So that's good. I don't
think we care too much. Yeah. I've heard
mixed of views on that thing.
I think some people run it for
almost like a
just a mental,
a mental reason. Okay. I've seen it go
on in awful a lot of bikes.
And,
yeah. I mean, Richie runs it, but he's
hard to get answers out of. So
got it. Yeah. So... And then I think
Jack,
Mo was on. I don't know if he
you will. If he still... Sure if he
did. Yeah. I know that Book could put
it on then took it off.
And Other I know other people that have
taken it off as well. So Again, I
think it's
it's all...
It helps with certain situations, but maybe not
every certain situation So I think it's just
a routing style type of thing. Do you
think dampers will keep stable stuff is a
potential, like, fatigue reduction thing. Possibly. Yeah. Yeah.
You have a longer term and long range.
That's why I, like, kind of
wanted it originally and and enjoyed the kiss
system at home because it just... It does
allow you to relax almost a little bit
more. Because she's not trying to
keep your buyers from, like, tweaking it all
the time. Yeah.
Cool. And then this off season, you had
a fellow Canadian Jack. He's joining you on
the Canyon squad. Yeah. That must have been
nice. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. How local is
he to you? Very. Okay. Yeah. He's from
from Alberta, so different province, but
He lives in Sq now. So he's just
up there... He's, like, just across the highway
from me. Yeah. Has not been beneficial then
to have someone to, like, yeah. Test with
train with compare notes with on product and
stuff. Yeah Well, I mean, yeah. It's just
from, like, feel like back in the day
with Ram and Airline and having people local
and every time you have a test session,
like, you can have someone out there and
come with you and it's always just nice
to kinda do it with someone else and
he brings
a lot more energy into the team, which
is nice. And different riding style. He's got,
like, incredible technique, and, you know, I think
we
we can see the
the skills that each 1 of us has
and we and we're trying to, like,
merge them in a way? So that's cool.
Yeah. Can you can you read across kind
of settings and stuff or those different writing
styles meeting out really different. We've... I think
we tried originally, or, like, I think he
you tried and
realize that I ride way different than he
does. K. And and
it's really tough He's way. He's he he's
like, wait taller than I am.
Way bigger
rides completely different. So it's it's tough for
us I have similar setups, and I and
I try not to influence them too much
because
I've done so much testing and I and
I feel like I know a lot, but
I I
insist that he is
a different writer, and so he shouldn't necessarily
do everything that I do. So Think it's
been pretty good at, like, understanding and he'll
take certain and things I say, but is
happy to, like, stand strong and and other
things. So it's been.
It's been good. Yeah. Nice having a companion
out on the road as. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Nice. So coming into 20 24,
It's a smaller season this year, which Yeah.
Is for some in some ways disappointed and
in other ways, kinda I guess understandable with
brands going through struggles and it makes the
whole thing a bit more affordable from that
perspective.
What was your view coming into the year
on having this, like, very Eu focused
short season.
Yeah. I think that we are just at
the whim of a big
corporation now, and I think their focus is
slightly elsewhere. U. And
so it's it's unfortunate for sure, but I
think it's just in in my view, it's
temporary. Yeah. And everyone wants to get up
in arms and complain and and scream and
show and you're like, okay, Well, it's 1
year, and
I don't foresee it happening forever because... Okay.
You know, the guy in charge created this
sport and
I don't think he wants to see it
this way. And so he's just doing the
best he can right now.
And I I just kind of I don't
know I have faith in these guys, like,
I've I've known Chris for
I don't know. 11 years now Yeah. And
he's a pretty good guy. So
I think that that'll it'll... It'll be fine.
Like, the season was... Yeah,
extremely European based as an exclusively European based.
Which just The only thing that I don't
like is,
you know, the
the lack of
sympathy, I think, from from the heroes who
live here and don't have to travel that
we have to worry about Visa days. Like,
we're all gonna be, like, close to over
days just doing this race series. Yeah. I
had to go home for... I mean it
had to. But, yeah, 9 days just, like
escape the eu. So I could, like, be
end of days and it like, that's 2
jet lag
trips in in less than 2 weeks and
it kinda sucks. Stress on the body that's
not positive stress for training. Yeah. So it's
it's tough to compete against people who don't
have to deal with that. Yeah.
So that's the only thing that I think
is slightly unfair. Yep.
But you have amazing. I love traveling you.
They have great venues and, you know, I
think that
moving forward. Hopefully,
we get back to some of the classic
venues and and things will be all good?
Yeah. What gives you confidence that it's a
kinda temporary thing.
We've been having a lot more
meetings with those
upper,
upper management people and
kind of telling them like, hey, you know,
we wanna see this port succeed, and
these are the things that we think need
need to happen and and they're being to
be receptive and cool. I think that's really
good. So... Yeah. Yeah. It's it's been good.
It's it's tough because it used to be
such a small company and so easy to,
like,
move and now it's it's huge and Yeah.
Yeah.
Their their biggest focus is on cross country.
So that it stays in the Olympics, and
then obviously, there's down, which has, like the
most to lose. Yeah. So I I understand
it. And I think that to me, it
makes sense and I'm happy just to go
and raise my bike and and do my
thing, and then
Now we're like, feeling like we a chance.
To be like, okay. Like, you've you've dealt
that with all those things and not now
we can kinda figure out our own things
and Yeah. Yeah. That's great to have that
perspective And. I've never thought about it, but,
yeah, like, the bigger a company gets the
less agile it gets because lots layers of
approval and all this kind of stuff, and
it's gone from I mean I don't know
how big Es was when it was just
running.
Aws, but probably 10 tens of people. If
not less. Yeah. And then suddenly, you're in
this corporation of tens of thousands probably around
the world, running warner River say. Yeah. Yeah.
That makes So makes lot of sense. It's
tough. For sure. And like, that's the thing
is you have to
accept that. And,
yeah. I think like I said, I think
we'll get back to back to where it
should be, and I think people underestimate like,
obviously, the impact Covid had on Yeah. Not
just brands, but organizers, like, so many people
would have struggled to get through that and
and
have the means of bro race again. And
it's still having an impact to some extent
Right? Mean bike brands are still
suffering
consequences as a result of Covid like Overs
stock supply chain issues. So Yep. We're not
kinda not out the woods yet on that.
So not not totally. No So... But we'll
get there. We'll forget there. Yeah. And it's
cool that you're getting... The voice feels like
it's getting heard more and Joshua started or
like a rider group to connect things up,
I think as we're... So exactly. Yeah. It's
been super positive.
Right. Let's talk about the racing. Mh. We
kicked off in finale, which, from what it
here was relatively challenging, like, we're back to
pushing the the liaison times a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
I
I'm a fan of that because
I I trained really hard and I like
doing big days. And
I thought that race was...
It was borderline, but it was good.
Do you think borderline is where it should
be? Yeah. I think that
we've had it
easy Like, I don't wanna finish a race
and feel like it was easy. Yeah. Like,
that is to me not a woke cup.
Yeah. Otherwise, what you're train for Like, Yeah.
And like, it's it's the... It should be
the hottest race in the world. Yeah. That's
that's what it should be and
I I think that
I I enjoy suffering with everybody. You know?
I I wish that
Like I think we need... I still... I
still think we need like, slightly longer transfers
because it allows like,
The data doesn't need to be fast. It
just needs to be big. Yeah. So...
And then
I think that, you know, we've had some,
like, Poland was pretty much perfect. Like, we
had just enough time for everything, but it
was a big day. Yeah. Finale was a
bit tight.
And
what do did we just have Come blue?
I had 1 pet transfer. Yeah. Better than
that, it was it was good and, like,
yeah, you're just there and you're struggling your
sweating. No one's talking to the transfers and
you just just struggling through together. So I
I think it's... I think I think it's
good. And I think it's it's good when
we get to lots of descending and lots
of good tracks. So
Yeah. I enjoyed it Finale was was super
tough, but you have the sense of, like,
pride that you you got through it and
and everyone's like, honestly everyone's like stoked at
the finish and first for some people, like,
it's really hard and I I think it
brings up the question of, you know,
And this is gonna, like, it stir up
controversy, but like, different category
transfer times basically.
Okay. Interesting that, you know, you would think
that junior shouldn't have to do the same
times as we do. Like, that's kind of
ridiculous. Yeah. When you talk about it, like,
make sense physically, you should be more developed.
And you look at extras country, and they
have different lap times. And by not lap
times, but different amount of laps. So Yeah.
I think that's just fair. It's just fair
to
they have a stepping stone into leap. So
Yeah. I think in in downhill, it's impressive
that everyone has, like the same track and
does the same thing.
But you could argue that junior do less
racing because they do. Yes. Because elites now
have Q semi and finals and gina just
have qualities in finals. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's
right. Yeah. Sure. 1 last? Yeah. That would
make a lot sense to sixth place.
Again, it's that opener of the season where
you've got your first opportunity to compare. Yeah.
What did that comparison look like when you
when you walked away and started thinking about
it? Yeah. Again, it was just a slight
miss. I had 1 crash.
I'm 1 of the stages
just finale is an interesting 1 because... And
those are super super physical stages. So you're
pedal all the time and it's really fast
and this was like a tight track, and
I was just pedal and clip my foot
on stump and just went flying
pretty huge crash. Bars are twisted it, and
I rode, like, the 2 minutes of the
stage left of twisted bars. So I lost
a ton of time. So without that,
again, it's like a what f and I
hate, like, saying that. But in my in
my own head, like, I don't need to...
I don't shout this to people bend in
my head, like, okay. Would have been on
the podium. Yeah. Without this crash. So I
know that's a great start. That's where I
wanna be. Yeah. I'm happy with that.
So, yeah, I was I was happy with
the speed. I really happy with the fitness.
Like, there was a super physical stage. It
was
I don't know how long It was, but
I was only, like, 4 seconds behind hunt.
Who's like, the biggest machines. So I was
like, damn I'm okay. Like, off season and
training went super I was
confident and then the bikes get stolen. Then
the bike gets stolen on for that. Big.
That's a
that's a big win of ourselves for sure.
Yeah. That was been
out of a pool to get everything together.
Yeah. And that just shows, like, how
great our team is like, they... It was
stressful for for me and Jack, totally.
But it was extremely stressful for the team
and but they did a really good job
at shielding us from from that. You know,
Like, we knew it's really unfortunate, but, like,
We knew We have the spare parts. We
have the spare frames. We just have to
get them. A lot of it was on
the truck because we travel with spare stuff.
Yeah. We needed some stuff from knees and
so there was a good effort from everybody
to, like, get some stuff from knees, which
is why I like the team had quotas
and
and Adam just sold it through 2 bike
builds through the night and god us ready
for practice, and that was
super impressive. Yeah. So what how did you
feel coming into the race? Had you been
able to work through in practice and get
things feeling
some
because, like, the first stage, like, the track
was so sick, and I was like, the
butt I was just struggling at the bike.
I just... I I thought everything was set
up the same way, but we
we missed on
bar I believe in the end, and I
just was like, struggling with the front end,
and I was like,
track so sick, but I just can't like,
I'm not, like, sc everything in it. So
I was just chasing at that race and
that was I was unfortunate because it was
a was a good track And Yeah. But
I finished fifth, and Jack finished vic, I
think. Yeah. So, like, super good results. Considering
everything. So Let's go be a good confidence
piece to get Again. I and, again, I
crash on the domino's. Out, I've 1 grass
corner
crash leading into an uphill lot a ton
of times. So again, I'm like,
yes, start making these down the states.
Yeah. But, yeah, you must have felt good
after that this still. Right? Like, yes you
now like, whole blank sheet of paper. Yeah.
Build a bike, puzzle through it and get
a fifth place. It's it's
Yes. I feel good about the fifth, but
it's... You feel
not disappointed but frustrated that that happened. Yeah
What what would have happened if I had
my bike, You know? Like, okay. Could've it
done really well. Yeah. Who knows? Hard to
move past some of that stuff sometimes. Yeah,
like, forget about it and yeah. Deal with
what you've got.
Did you have time to kind of reboot
them before Lee gang and get. Like said
Fab kim, we did a we did a
day in for alley and and had a
really constructive day and and got the bikes
right back to kinda where they were, and
I would say even better. Like, k. I
made some changes to bar and and suspension
set up, and I was like, oh, I
first time I'm in a long time. I
felt like, I can I I can, like,
attack? I'm, yeah able to be on my
bike and really push, and I'm just like,
man. I'm actually just like,
able to, like, just go after it and
so Was super stoked. Yeah. Are you going
up on bar height? Yeah. And are you
going up with the bar up with spaces
because it's kinda different. Right? Yeah. I'm already
at a 40000000 bar, so I'm okay. I
can't. I have not going back zach
food that.
Yeah.
I love watching that. It's it just Yeah.
It's pretty fun. It's unique. Like the way
he's riding that bike seems totally different to
everyone else, but he's making it work. He's
putting down times So you can argue no.
You can't. Incredible stuff Yeah. What... So what...
How is that bar height manifesting in what
you feel when you're ride in?
Well, yeah. I guess, for me, I've always
I've always struggled with corner speed.
And so I've I've ran a low boss
it up in the past to, like, help
get my weight forward and get trapped on
the front wheel. Yeah.
But now with
suspension set up with rocks shocks, we have,
like, a really dialed fork, and I feel
like I can run a higher bar because
my front it is so sup Yeah. And
supportive that
I don't have to be as, like, over
the front end to get that front attractions.
Yeah. Yeah. I it's a... It's been a
really good
combination of things? Yeah. And be more, like,
upright on the bike? Do you... Has that
impacted like, how are you're looking down the
track? Because you're not
you know, has to create neck up to
get that visibility so much from like a
low front end does it change that side
of things Or not not that I've thought
I've to be honest. I don't think
Yeah. That's not something that I've I've really
thought about. It's more... I've always been a
pretty, like, upright rider, and I think no
matter Bar it, But I think that was
a problem is with low bars, my arms
straighter. So I didn't have the ability to,
like,
bend input. Okay. And so now with my
bar higher. I'm more band and I have,
like,
more positive and negative movement. Yeah. Industrial natural
suspensions. Yeah. Yeah. But but I never... I
can never get away with that before because
my
4 was low and I just wasn't able
to like, have that fork support, But now,
like, Ro have been a huge help this
year and Yeah. And and last year as
well. And we've got, like, a lot of
good things. Yeah things happening. Have you played
around with the yeah electronic stuff at all
like, the flight attendant
currently doesn't fit on my bike. So okay.
Not been able to. But I... They've sent
me a from a X bike to get
prepared for it, and Yeah. Right. It's so
sick. Yeah. I I can't wait. You... It's
gonna make surely, like, if it's
if it's relevant to dan, it's gonna be
even more relevant to endure would have thought.
Interestingly, like, not,
I would say it's almost more relevant for
downhill because okay. They have, like,
they're doing a 4 minute track. And if
they have 30... Not even 30 seconds, but
less than that of
whatever flow track or anything. Like, the pumping
they can get out of that is huge.
And for us, like,
I don't think that the benefits are as
I've done time and, like, when I had
the Fox system, Like, I did timing on
on sprints, and it wasn't a huge deal.
Okay. But I still... Yeah. I still think
it's super important, and I think that
The thing is is I haven't I haven't
actually been able to use the Flight I
attendant on a bike. I had the Fox
system, but
on my x e bike I've like tried
to fool that thing, and it's just... It's
crazy how good it is and on the.
Yeah. I I can't wait to have it
because I think it'll be locked out more
than I think it ever would be. Yeah.
And it could just provide, like, these little
tents everywhere.
Yeah. And... There's quite a few guys like,
doing well. I feel
what Rich is winning on 1.
Ru has had 1 in the. I don't
know if he's running it in Comm blue.
Jack's got 1. Jack Mo got. Yeah. Got
1.
And so those guys all did better than
me on the weekend So. Okay. Well, we'll
have to get you back on when you've
done that. Experiment of Jury, but I have
be interested to hear about. It's like, talk
of the town, I guess,
considering all the data. I don't understand. And
I I think
more to your point is that I think
it it makes way more sense on a
bike. Like, just for the average rider. Off
for sure. It's gonna say that. And the
reason I love that fox system was same
with a shape shift. It was an... It
was an automatic shape shifter where
anytime I'm climbing and the things locked out.
Yeah. And you just you don't have think
about it, and you don't forget to unlock
it. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a lock, but
I never use it because I know I
get so. You're so scary. So Flight I
attendant it. Like I said, I had that
on the X u bike and I've tried...
Yeah. It thing just works. Like, it's it's
super smart. And they're only gonna get better.
Right? All the Ai and stuff cummins only
gonna improve things. So... Yeah. Yeah. Super interesting.
So, yeah, Leah Gang and Con then sixth
and tenth. Yeah. Talk us through the last
couple of rounds and where you're at. Yeah.
Liu gang was a frustrating 1. So I
felt like in Finale in Poland I was
riding fast, but
not as like, loose as I usually am.
And so my my process for lee again
was to crash,
loose, which is yeah.
Don't know. Maybe not the best process, but
I was like look, I just need to
find my limit. Like, I I don't feel
like I'm writing
to the point where I'm crashing. Yeah. And
so I wanted to do that. And, unfortunately,
it got wet, which is not the race
that you wanna, like, have that mindset because
and it's... I mean, like, I should have,
like, leah gang from the year previous
Just... There's just no reward for attacking too
much on those tracks.
Because it's just so...
There's just no support anywhere. So crash a
much in that race.
And I was... What was I66.
Yeah 6. Yeah.
Not great.
But not bad. I had some some some
good moments and wanna stage finally. So that
that's was my first of the year. Yeah.
Which I was really happy about.
And that was on, like, the last stage,
which yeah. Josh, it's funny. I I heard
in,
I think it was Richie post race from
Come.
Josh gave him a pep talk as well.
But Josh gave me a pep talk. And
was like stopping an idiot.
And
I stopped an idiot, and I won last
day You go. Like yeah just Easy words.
You need him on every stage with you,
mate. I I've tried now and comp. I
was like, I was talking... You like... It's
funny because you're at the bottom of the
stage now interviewing us and he'll did the
of interview and as soon we stopped. And
like, okay. Like, let's that's jazz to the
d debrief. Yeah. But, no. Their gang was
Yeah. Frustrating because,
I didn't think I actually had the best
bite setup for that 1. K. I'd made
the changes
that I had made with fab, but I
actually went back because I thought it was
super, like, Rudy and and wet that I
wanted to really sup set up. Okay. But
I think I just had gotten used to
this tip setup, and so Should stuck with
it. But... Yeah. I mean, that... I think
it's just learning, like, you know? Yeah. Just
dream to Just to process. And then,
yeah. I went home and
there's been this, like, heavy sickness going through.
Everyone. And so I had to go home
and that was probably the best thing about
being home as I just did, like, pretty
much nothing for weekend. And That was a
that was a big block. That was 7
weeks 7 weeks in Europe, not at home,
traveling out of a suitcase, not normal routine
and and for me, that really like, gets
to me and I was like,
just cooked. And so went home and by
a day 8,
I felt good. And then I flew flew
back over europe.
That's brew on it. Yeah. It's tough like,
you're you're at home and you have all
your friends and you wanna hang out, but
you're just like, I I can't. I'm just,
like, no motivation. Just sitting around. You go
for an needs to spin, you just... Just
trying to recover. You feel like you have
you have no gas or anything. And your
sharpness is gonna go, I guess. Like you
can't, but that the explosive power side of
things goes quicker than anything else. Probably. Yeah.
I think that I've always been really good
hopping on the bike and doing well. Like,
okay. I know that for my injury years,
like,
I'll... Every time, like, I would break my
hand if C, anything I'd be doc docs
at 6 weeks at 5 weeks, I was
on a bike fond Europe and, like, 6
weeks was the race weekend, and I would
be back in for a top 10 every
time. Okay. I had, like faith that I
could just hop on a bike, and I
knew the changes I wanted to make, and
I spent 1 day at home doing a
bunch of kind of
testing and changes to, like,
from lee gang, This is what I want
the bike to to do and I did,
and I felt like, okay. That's it. I
was all need to do, Not change too
much. Yeah. And, yeah, I felt, like, amazing
on the bike and and comp. Like, first
day we rode winter
resort called.
Oh, nice. That's good that. Lame was lame
was all day? Yeah. Yeah Yeah. So that
was
that was super sweet. And I felt really
good. And I was, okay. Like, yeah. Bike
feels amazing, and the tracks were
on wheel.
Had a great time in practice. 1 pretty
heavy crash,
just a
weird taping
taping job,
and it went down super hard actually and
somehow didn't break mass up, which is super
nice, but
besides that, Had a really fun practice and
going into the race. Just like okay, This
time the process is, I know I can,
like, I know I go to the limit.
I know I can crash. So that's just
rain it 1 step back from that.
And I was doing a good job, but
just man, it's the the focus you need
is is a hundred percent of the time,
and I made 1 slight mistake, ran off
track. Unfortunately,
like, we have tape
for, like, the majority of track. And,
like, you can't cut trees. You can't do
this thing, but this was like, whatever swoop
corners and
you're not gaining anything by like, cutting through
the grass, but I, like, ran off track
and, like, hit this 1 bush that just
caught me weird and just sent me flying.
Otherwise, I could have, like, ridden through it.
So I just got caught by this bush
sided, like, fly through the air,
big crack got my bike and
I saw my ball on the ground, and
it was, like, split second, like, I don't
have time to, like, grab a bottle put
in my case. I just like, went.
And so Lost of time in that crash.
Was 50 seventh from that stage which is
more crazy. How... I was like, 08:18 seconds
back and 50 seventh. Like, man that's tight.
Isn't wild. Yeah. Yeah. And then... But, yeah,
that was a tight transfer after that and
I had no water, and so I, like,
got pretty cooked, but able to come back
for... I think a... Fifth there's was 6
on the next age. U. So rat well.
And again, like, some positives from that race
and I knew had I, like, I stuck
to my plan, but had A I not
crashed with my plan. I would have been,
I think, top 5. So... Yeah. That's why
I wanted to be just, like, riding well
having fun and being top 5 and then
and then building from there. And this is
this is the the the struggle I in
currently is,
you know, Richie had an amazing season, and
he's just been able to build bill build.
And I've
had finale had the stolen bikes, trying to
claw back at, Poland, and then live gang
mistake, then had to go and then went
home come back.
Finally feel good calm blue. No now. I'm
certain to build. You know? It's like... The...
And then other guys, and there's so many
guys that are, like, on it this year
that If you just get on this build,
like you saw Charlie Murray. He's on a
build build build, big crash.
He's having to regroup. Yeah. Jack Morris had,
like, a ton of bad luck this year.
He's having a regroup. He's got the speed
it, but it's just like
things have to go right
so you can just, like just build and
it's it's so slight, like, the margins are
I saw, like a a stat that
Luke had the biggest stage winning margin and
it was like 1.2 percent. It's tiny. That's
nothing. Yeah. So tight these days. We're talking,
like, most of the stage like margins are
less than half a percent. And traditionally, the
battle, I guess,
up until more recently has been like you,
Jack Ritchie. Hugh and Jack have had some
pretty big changes and Richie she's been more
consistent on that yeti program. Yeah. Does that
make him, like, at least in the short
term, Anyway, kinda of harder to beat? Because
you guys are there's a bit of catch
up with all the Yeah. The the team
change. I would say that she is proven
himself to be
the best no matter what.
So,
yeah, he's he's just always the guy to
be... He's he's super strong.
He hasn't changed
bikes. So he's always got a dial set
up. Mentally. He's obviously, like, extremely
strong.
He's got a good team around him. Like,
he's just he's just the man to be
pretty yeah. Pretty intimidating. But then, yeah, like,
you said, you've got Charlie,
Charlie alex
how sweet he's been... Yeah. I'm real this
year. I wonder, like, if he's just learning
a time from Or or why while he
needed time to do it, but like, super
impressed with him. Casper as well. Alright. It's
been coming back and sort of where we
expected to see him a few years ago
before the calendar has. Yeah. Yeah. So it's
It's getting tougher and tougher. Right? Oh yeah.
Like, the amount of people is... Yeah and
then just the speed, like I... Like I
said, it's
you... There's no there's no room to hang
about? Yeah. So what how do you deal
with that? What do you do? How do
you do anything different? Like... Well, that's, you
know, like I said in there in the
earlier
beginning of the podcast. It's... I'm in the
process of
figuring that out. Like, is it a big
change needed? Or am I just, like, 1
step away from everything clicking. And I believe
like, that's what I believe. I know my
fitness is there. I definitely lost some in
in the big Europe block and going home
and and kinda being a bit sick, So
I know I'm not like, I'm not peaking
and I'm not gaining, but I'm, you know,
I'm level. Yeah. Bike setup, I think is
good. Team is good.
So I think it's just
do the same thing. Bang my head against
the wall and over better result go. And
what have we got we've got 2,
1 more 2 more more... 2 more rounds
in a world wheelchair. Yep.
So the overall I would guess is not
wade wannabe be in the overall at the
moment. Yeah. I'm tied for fifth, I believe.
Does that like,
start to convince you to shift focus towards
the first enjoy world champs and really like
gold on 1 event or... I don't know.
It's not my style like I Okay. I
you wanna know win... Yeah. Exactly. I wanna
win everything.
So no. My...
That world champs will happen World champs happens.
The thing with Duo and, like,
this is the tough 1 because there's no
rules against it, but like, morally. I don't.
Like, the hallmark rule of Maduro is that
we get 1 practice slap. And then you
race it. Yeah. That
gets a little bit difficult because we raise
venues year after year. And so like downhill,
it's not as big of an advantage
because you get someone... So many practice slaps,
but Yeah. I understand, like,
people who don't have that. I mean, even
in down, they say, like, you know, Craig
raised Months end, 20
something times. Like, he must have an advantage.
Yeah. But for us, it's even a bigger
advantage if I've raced Ken as I might
know 3 or 4 times. So someone else
who's coming up. Late. They might feel like,
well, I'm gonna go to Ken early and
get some pre practice because, like, to get
myself on the level.
So it's really hard to fight against that.
But I just...
I don't want that to be where the
sport goes. Yeah.
You know, I
then it becomes just
factory team
style thing where... Who's who's... What factory team
is gonna send their team to a venue
for how many weeks or months to, like,
to prep... For that. I think this world's
scares me a little bit because that
it's a 1 off event. And so that's...
If anyone's gonna do it, you're gonna do
it for that event. Yep.
So
We'll see. Sweet. So so what I saying
is, like, you could... Yeah. If I wanted
to prepare for Can I would just you'd
be not go home and got Can, but
yeah? I think that it's proven Tom and
Tom again that the fastest will always win.
I've I can remember
Sam Hi Nico videos at home in Val.
Charlie Murray
is
definitely not a prep practice and he won
in
Poland
practices. Yeah
well, not. Yeah. There's others but slab is
local That's totally fine. Yep. But he still
exactly. Beat him at his home race. Yeah.
I know Sam has almost beat me in
Whistler, like, fair fair fight. Yeah. I have
been in Whistler, obviously. Yeah. So there's, like...
And I've... And I
when the... Yeah. Sam, I won, Pietro last
year, and I know people had went there
early. Yeah. So, like, if for the winners,
I don't think it matters as much.
I think it's like for the the the
places beyond that it might matter. Yeah. You
might get a top 10 or a top
15 where you might be normally, like, outside
the top. Hope for I hope for worlds
that doesn't become a big thing where, like,
teams are gonna go prelude unveil to Can
eye, and I just write a bunch of
the trails. Tricky. Alright because the results need
the income. They can't just start closing trails.
It's easier for a downhill, but even sometimes
spot tricky. Yeah. But you can't just say
while the whole resort show or... No. No.
Of course Not. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I it's
just up to us like, pathetic a good
example and show that,
you, the top right is not going. It
You don't need you don't need that advantage.
I think I think with 1 practice lap
and Gopro, you can be at peak speed
and like and and it's a skill set.
Right? That you've ever... And.
I I kind of have said as well
as
doing the prep pretext for 1 round might
help you for that 1 round, but it's
not is not helping you build the skills
to go fast after 1 lap, which is
what is. So long term. It's not really
helping you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we see you
have got fully blind racing. Like, the sort
of stan Valley style. Doubt. Yeah. I've done
Pacific and I I've done
ends enzo. So I've done a few of
them. Yeah. I I,
yeah. I I
I'm just scared I guess is when it
comes down to. I was trying to think,
like, I was actually more wild back van
in S survived. So I think I could
do it now So. Stone king looks on
wheel.
I think I'd rather do 1 in
in North America. K. With trails that like,
have good
eye. Yeah. North liner I close to Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doing those. Some of those
I was watching, like, all the P footage,
like, from Inn
and others at stone. And I was like,
Matt, if you make a mistake there. And
has made it look easy though to be
fair, and I've ridden quite a lot of
these trails and... Yep. But I don't think
he's got that... There's really good skill. And
like, I I do love that, but when
a... When the clock is ticking and you're
being timed.
Pretty appreciate. Brett miss. I think I would
love to do that when I So I'm
not, like, excited to win. You know? I
just wanna go and have a good time
in afford a bit. So I'm always as
well it needs be an hospital for a
while. Yeah. Wanna talk about eb bikes, and
I'm very much not an e bike. Hey.
A like I think they're a great All
and a real great addition to the sport,
but
there's this, like, e bike racing still feels
kind of awkward, and I've I've been giving
it some thought. And I feel like
for existing mountain, Like, obviously, brands wanna sell
bikes, like it's where the growth is for
the market at the moment.
But as as existing mountain biker has don't
think many people are really that interested in
e bike racing. Mh. Certainly not watching maybe
in participating. And then people coming into the
sport the e bike because their kinda of
gateway in. I don't know about the racing
and. Don't care. So it doesn't
feel necessarily like racing is the right way
to Mh. Sell eb bikes, but we're in
this sport where the way we've sold bikes
is or a big part it It's always
been through racing. I was keen to get,
like, your thoughts on it, and obviously, you're
around that, discipline as it's happening. Like, how
are you seeing that develop I think it's
going in a good way. Yeah. I mean,
I think you have... You kinda set it
without saying, I think you're you're pretty spot
on that
to me, like you look at Downhill as
an example. Like, Downhill
is not there to really sell down Home.
Because it's a sell a brand. Yeah. So
for racing. Yeah. I believe that
If I went on a strive, someone will
buy a strive on if they want bike.
Yeah. So that's the way I see. I
don't think you need to raise e bikes
to sell bikes. I think it might help.
But I think that us as rad sell
more e bikes than the e biker. Yeah.
Just just because of who's doing it right
now, you know, like, there's not
Yeah. That's just that's kind of what I
think And I I agree that bike racing
is
doesn't make sense to me. I love bikes
I have bikes at home. Yes, sir.
Actually, had a really fun time. It was
my dad 7 birthday,
and I... When I was back home and
I was riding with some of my parents
friend, the parents on be bikes yet, but
my parents friends do and it was
kind of wild to be climbing up the
the trail with them.
And they're just... They're pushing their their motor
and I'm pushing my motor on like my
legs and and we're chatting and I was
like, was like It's super cool. And I
think there's... Yeah other. There's a huge place
for them totally, but to me
racing,
it's either a motors portal it's not. Yeah.
And we have not been a motors sport
for ever.
And all I hear about the Bike is
that they're pushing the motor over the governor.
Mh. Which also just doesn't make any sense?
Like, why Have a governor on A motor?
Yeah. So
doesn't make sense.
I don't really... Yeah. I don't I don't
know if that's
the way things should go. I still think
that a big and duo day is
is what like
is what
Mountain Biking or or Duo is. I think
that eb bikes, like, you can't even really
do a big day because, you limited on
battery. Yeah. So if we're trying to replicate,
like,
if end endurance trying to replicate what people
do kind at home, they're they're big rides
or whatever. It's,
you know, we do a big ride. They
do a big ride. E bike
are are maxed out
on speed and on distance because Yeah. They
have a battery and they have a limit,
which is kind of interesting. Yeah. So, yeah.
I don't know it's interesting.
I think that brands are doing it because
they're is racing, but I don't believe that
they're doing it because I think it's the
future. Yeah. And I think that there's really
good as anything like there's good innovation coming
out of it, and that helps the bikes
improve. Yeah. True. So I think that's huge.
Yeah. But I think, like, to me, it's
you know, I think you could have do
racing,
be the stand out discipline,
and then us as riders promote e bikes
Yeah. Like, away from the racing kind of
thing. Because add it with you riding your
strive on. And And that's like, that would
do just as much as as a new
bike your bike racer because I think that
I know
my parents friends at home.
None of them have bought any e bike
that is winning a bike race. Okay. Not
a single 1 because they didn't care. No.
They don't care. Either they want the biggest
battery possible
or they want these lightweight ones.
That are closer to weight and what, like
their know bike is. Yeah. So as far
as I know, Damian Tom might be like
the only 1 on a on a lightweight.
You'd bike. So that's a that's a pretty
good a sell for that bike, but
and none of them none of them I'm
watching you by racing and
I don't see... I don't know anyone with
the Yeti e bike. Even though those are
winning them all.
But I do know 1 of my friends...
Or my my parents friends bought. Can into
your bike, so
I don't know who that's from, but there
you go. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. Do you
could you ever see
like,
a combined
end
e
thing where, like, maybe there were a couple
of rounds where you rode e bikes or
there was like, a couple of stages within
a race where you always rode them, like,
it feels out ultimately at some point,
it's all heading towards d bike, but I
I think that's a long way away. But
Yeah. But, yeah, I just don't. Yeah.
That's an interesting 1. Like, that is that
is
a, like, 10 year industry type thing. Everyone's
on Bikes. Yeah. And I struggle
to see that. I think I think the
amount of bags obviously is gonna grow substantially.
Yeah.
In Europe, it's obviously huge. At home. It's
still
really
it's still in that early stages of growth.
But I just I can't I can't see
it, but I can I can
understand that that might like that might happen?
Yeah. So I... I... But I think by
that, by that point, when that happens, like
the motor
and battery technology is gonna be so much
farther ahead then. Yeah. It might look...
Completely different to what we think it... Like,
to what it is now. Yeah. You know?
Like, right now, we have really heavy bikes
with batteries that can't even go that far.
And
in the future, we might have really light
bikes, but batteries is I can go really
far. Yeah. It's gotta go get a lot
closer to. What our normal bikes can do
a thing before it becomes the only bike
own. Because... Yep. However, much fun you have
on an e bike, you get back on
a normal bike, like, this is men. I
mean,
I would I I have... I honestly have
fun, like, if I go out on my
my strive on, like the the E bike
a lot climbing on it. It's hilariously fast.
Yeah. And the thing to sand super well
to a point where,
like, it's
that weight, like, makes it feel so much
different. I find that it's
tougher to handle,
and I really like my my analog and
bike in that sense.
But it's always hard to get back on
my know bike I can pull up a
hill. You you're like, well, this is is
a real, But that's the problem I find
with eb bikes and that's why I think
the full... The full pie ones make sense
when I'm, like, technical climb and I'm almost
like trials riding. Yeah. But just riding up
a hill it's way too easy to be
in Turbo pedal it. 50 Rpm and not
doing any work. Yeah. And everyone... Like, I
know that, yes,
it it can be hard to pedal up
an ebay because I've I've done, like, animals
on them where, like, if you're trying to
max it out going up a climb. You're
working really hard. What?
You can also go really easy if you
want do. And it's far too tempting Yeah.
I don't think my bike seen anything other
than off and beast. Yeah.
Yeah. Saving is nothing in between. Yeah. There's
another. I to me there's no other bones.
Yeah. So I don't know. I think that
I think bikes will just
be way different to what they currently are
because that, like,
electronic technology
advances so quickly that It's just gonna be
way different than I think we think it's
gonna be in the future. Definitely.
Let's pick up on 1 more discipline before
we wrap up and we'll briefly talk downhill.
Is there a sender in the garage? Now?
There is. Yeah. As of it's it's in
the garage now it's not built yet, but,
yeah. We finally have it down bike. It's
taken a while it It has taken a
while. Yeah. Well, Been focused on End maduro,
and
yeah, there's
not always been the time, but now, like
the... With the schedule this year, like, I
think,
I'll go home. If I'm feeling
good, I'm signed up for the Crank
down sweet. But that's the weekend after I
at home. So also your how I feel.
What tracks the. 11 99. Yeah super gnarly
truck. Yeah. And then I might do nationals.
Downhill, which. If I'm not feeling too, like,
cooked when I get home, but, yeah. It's
definitely...
I don't know. I think that there is
something to learn from doing Daniel,
I think if you look at Ritchie,
he's doing Downhill. Yeah. And he's done pretty
well as well. Done well, I think he's
and he's had a really good year this
year. So.
So I think that there's is someone to
be learned from doing both and I think
you've seen down guys come to End and
learn kinda how to manage
speed. Over multiple runs,
which I think is a big
a big necessity now with all the runs
in downhill?
So... Yeah. Yeah. Do you think we'll ever
see you on a world cup start line?
I think that I am realistic
and,
yes, that is my goal. Okay.
But I'm not doing it if I don't
feel like I can, like,
safely
do well. Yeah. For. Like, I I wouldn't
Yeah. I think if things
go to plan, and I feel good on
a downhill bike and I'm not just like
terrified or
you know, blown away at the speed. Yeah
I'd love do. For sure. So it's monster
and anna possible with that after your season
finishes. Yeah. But I have to get points
points. Yeah. So that's why I would do
nationals. Okay. Well, I don't know if Can.
I don't actually crank wider down points because
they're separate there. Yeah. Do you know how
well you'd have to do at nationals to
get enough points.
Hasn't been done just. It's just
if things happen. Yeah. Yeah. They happen if
they don't they won't me to... Leave it
down to fate a little bit. Pretty much.
Jealous It'd be fun. Yeah. I think so.
And I think like I said, I think
it'll it'll teach me some things about
kind of peaks speed commitment and
how how fast a bike can really go?
Yeah. Have you ever ridden there Monster? No.
No. So Driving at a down bike since
2007.
Lots down Spinning while. Yeah Yeah. Try... It's
a trap that looks fun though It's on
on the list of ones that I'd quite
fancy riding whereas Val decides
every section but the section after Stephen Smith
drop. Looks fun. That looks fun, but looks
awfully terrifying. It's break commit. Yeah. So
but what the changes they did last year,
looked amazing. Like that upper woods section looks
so fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I
guess just watching Jackson go down there. It
looked fun. But Jackson makes a lot of
things. Look more fun. Sure they would be
if I tried them. Yeah. Yeah. But I
we'll see. Yeah. Nice man. Well, it's been
really good fun catching up. As always, there's
a a lot of thought and depth that
you put into everything and appreciate you sharing
some of that. Yeah. With the listeners. Thanks.
And, yeah. I hope the rest the season
goes well. I'm looking forward to scene. You
too the first enjoy world champs, and maybe
you'll see your first
couple of downhill races. Yeah. We'll see. Yeah.
Look after yourself. Hope it all goes as
well, if people wanna follow where should they
be looking? Yeah. Still Instagram is probably be
the best place, but I put up practice
in race videos on my Youtube. So yeah,
that's people seem like that and not as
vlog as the other guys, but just raw
footage. Yeah. And quite impressive how heavily you
manage to breathe and keep going like you
you... It looks like you focus on your
breathing when you're doing that. It feels was
very controlled, which I wouldn't be at that
point. It's more like, I'm trying to stay
relaxed. And I think that is something I've
learned
that is necessary this year is,
like, when things are happening and they're and
there... Everything's working out, It's just easy and
things come easy. But this year, I've really
had to
kind of weed threw everything that I do
and figure out the things that have maybe
fast. Yeah. And so comp was an effort
to
take it back a notch,
calm, know that I can ride fast. Yeah.
So I don't know those video sounded pretty.
Like I was having beating my mom massive
I do like, respiratory
news.
But, yeah. I do try to focus on
it. Like, it's, like, you gotta, like, constantly
mentally, like, we set in a stage and
not get to
to
to far like, over the line. Do you
do breath work
away from riding?
I I used to. And... It's 1 of
the things that I'm trying to, like, add
back into my program? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
is that more...
Is that more preparation for
breathing
well in stage. Of course it like a
down regulation practice to... It'd be both. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a lot
in that stuff there's books about that. That's
the thing is, like you look at it
and you're like, why do I even start.
So I it's kinda hard to start. Another
puzzle to get You. Nice, matt. Well we
should finish where gerard I'll just speak to
you about breathing for another hour. But, yeah.
Thanks, man. Enjoy the rest of the season,
and we'll catch up again seeing when you've
played with flight attendant Sounds good. Yeah. Let's
enjoy the race this weekend. Cheers Jesse.
Alright. That's it for this episode with Jesse.
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