1 00:00:01,439 --> 00:00:03,139 [Speaker 0] Does truth exist? 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:04,880 [Speaker 1] Because you have faith, does that make this 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,620 [Speaker 1] book true? 4 00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:08,665 [Speaker 0] Does God exist? So when someone says 5 00:00:08,665 --> 00:00:10,745 [Speaker 1] there is no truth, if you apply the 6 00:00:10,745 --> 00:00:13,945 [Speaker 1] claim to itself, what should you say? Is 7 00:00:13,945 --> 00:00:17,730 [Speaker 1] that true? They don't think Christianity is true. 8 00:00:18,590 --> 00:00:20,750 [Speaker 1] They're talked out of it. You know why 9 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:23,085 [Speaker 1] they're talked out of it? Because they've never 10 00:00:23,085 --> 00:00:24,365 [Speaker 1] been talked into it. 11 00:00:24,365 --> 00:00:29,164 [Speaker 0] Cross examining skeptical and atheistic views. Welcome to 12 00:00:29,164 --> 00:00:31,824 [Speaker 0] cross examine with doctor Frank Turek. 13 00:00:32,930 --> 00:00:35,430 [Speaker 2] Ladies and gentlemen, last week on this podcast, 14 00:00:35,489 --> 00:00:38,129 [Speaker 2] we were tackling a question from John about 15 00:00:38,129 --> 00:00:42,230 [Speaker 2] Romans chapter nine. And there's much in Romans 16 00:00:42,415 --> 00:00:45,535 [Speaker 2] chapter nine that many Calvinists try and say, 17 00:00:45,535 --> 00:00:48,175 [Speaker 2] well, man doesn't really have free choice. God 18 00:00:48,175 --> 00:00:50,780 [Speaker 2] makes all the choices. He God has mercy 19 00:00:50,780 --> 00:00:52,620 [Speaker 2] on whom he wants to have mercy and 20 00:00:52,620 --> 00:00:54,480 [Speaker 2] compassion on whom he wants to have compassion 21 00:00:55,739 --> 00:00:58,140 [Speaker 2] and hard and pharaohs heart. Who are you 22 00:00:58,140 --> 00:00:59,965 [Speaker 2] to talk back to God and all this? 23 00:01:01,165 --> 00:01:03,165 [Speaker 2] And a lot of Christians go, Oh, man, 24 00:01:03,165 --> 00:01:05,085 [Speaker 2] that really seems like we don't have any 25 00:01:05,085 --> 00:01:06,925 [Speaker 2] free will and God makes all the choose 26 00:01:06,925 --> 00:01:09,300 [Speaker 2] and does all the choices. And now we 27 00:01:09,300 --> 00:01:12,260 [Speaker 2] can't recant. We can't recant. We can't we 28 00:01:12,260 --> 00:01:14,900 [Speaker 2] don't want to recant. We can't go back 29 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:17,700 [Speaker 2] and go through everything we did for the 30 00:01:17,700 --> 00:01:21,515 [Speaker 2] past forty five minutes in the last program. 31 00:01:22,295 --> 00:01:24,375 [Speaker 2] That's forty five minutes long. So I'm just 32 00:01:24,375 --> 00:01:26,375 [Speaker 2] going to pick it up where we left 33 00:01:26,375 --> 00:01:29,160 [Speaker 2] off with a very kind of brief summary. 34 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,560 [Speaker 2] We were talking about Romans chapter nine, and 35 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,400 [Speaker 2] I tried to make the case that Romans 36 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,140 [Speaker 2] chapter nine is not talking about the election 37 00:01:36,955 --> 00:01:40,875 [Speaker 2] of individuals to salvation. It's talking about the 38 00:01:40,875 --> 00:01:44,795 [Speaker 2] election of the nation of Israel. So we 39 00:01:44,795 --> 00:01:47,660 [Speaker 2] went through that case and we also pointed 40 00:01:47,660 --> 00:01:50,700 [Speaker 2] out that several places in the scriptures it 41 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:54,495 [Speaker 2] talks about that God doesn't want anybody to 42 00:01:54,495 --> 00:01:56,575 [Speaker 2] be lost. He wants all to be saved. 43 00:01:56,575 --> 00:01:59,535 [Speaker 2] And so we ask the question, if God 44 00:01:59,535 --> 00:02:01,955 [Speaker 2] wants all to be saved and the Calvinists 45 00:02:02,095 --> 00:02:05,200 [Speaker 2] are right, that God does all the saving, 46 00:02:05,259 --> 00:02:08,780 [Speaker 2] then why isn't everyone saved? That would appear 47 00:02:08,780 --> 00:02:11,945 [Speaker 2] to be a contradiction. And I think it's 48 00:02:11,945 --> 00:02:15,625 [Speaker 2] not a contradiction because Calvinists are interpreting the 49 00:02:15,625 --> 00:02:20,810 [Speaker 2] passages wrongly. And we went through some reasons 50 00:02:21,110 --> 00:02:24,650 [Speaker 2] why in the last in the last show, 51 00:02:25,575 --> 00:02:28,614 [Speaker 2] we're going to pick it up here. In 52 00:02:28,614 --> 00:02:30,855 [Speaker 2] fact, I want to point out that when 53 00:02:30,855 --> 00:02:33,895 [Speaker 2] we go toward the end of Romans chapter 54 00:02:33,895 --> 00:02:37,970 [Speaker 2] nine, Paul says this in verse thirty. What 55 00:02:37,970 --> 00:02:40,290 [Speaker 2] then shall we say that the Gentiles who 56 00:02:40,290 --> 00:02:43,090 [Speaker 2] did not pursue righteousness have obtained it? A 57 00:02:43,090 --> 00:02:50,944 [Speaker 2] righteousness that is by as if it were 58 00:02:53,644 --> 00:02:58,110 [Speaker 2] by as if it were by works. He's 59 00:02:58,110 --> 00:03:02,129 [Speaker 2] pointing out again, the issue is the Israelites 60 00:03:02,349 --> 00:03:05,885 [Speaker 2] didn't have faith. And if the Calvinists are 61 00:03:05,885 --> 00:03:09,485 [Speaker 2] right, it would make absolutely no sense for 62 00:03:09,485 --> 00:03:15,650 [Speaker 2] Paul to say here that, well, the reason 63 00:03:15,650 --> 00:03:20,049 [Speaker 2] that Israel isn't saved is because they went 64 00:03:20,049 --> 00:03:22,385 [Speaker 2] about it by works when if they had 65 00:03:22,385 --> 00:03:24,564 [Speaker 2] gone about it by faith, they would have 66 00:03:24,944 --> 00:03:29,665 [Speaker 2] had faith because God had given them that 67 00:03:29,665 --> 00:03:31,690 [Speaker 2] faith. Well, why didn't God just give him 68 00:03:31,690 --> 00:03:34,590 [Speaker 2] the faith then? If God gives us faith, 69 00:03:35,050 --> 00:03:38,644 [Speaker 2] why is he lambasting or at least scolding 70 00:03:38,784 --> 00:03:40,545 [Speaker 2] Israel? In fact, why did he do it 71 00:03:40,545 --> 00:03:43,265 [Speaker 2] throughout the old testament? If God just gives 72 00:03:43,265 --> 00:03:43,745 [Speaker 2] people 73 00:03:43,745 --> 00:03:48,240 [Speaker 0] faith, why does he, why is he saying 74 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,800 [Speaker 0] you guys don't have faith? Get it, repent 75 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:51,540 [Speaker 0] and believe 76 00:03:52,355 --> 00:03:54,995 [Speaker 2] because human beings have a free choice. That's 77 00:03:54,995 --> 00:04:00,850 [Speaker 2] why. And then in chapter ten, Paul says, 78 00:04:00,850 --> 00:04:03,410 [Speaker 2] Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God 79 00:04:03,410 --> 00:04:05,570 [Speaker 2] for the Israelites is that they may be 80 00:04:05,570 --> 00:04:07,650 [Speaker 2] saved. See, Paul wants them to be saved. 81 00:04:07,650 --> 00:04:11,045 [Speaker 2] That's why he's taken this three chapter detour 82 00:04:11,825 --> 00:04:14,065 [Speaker 2] in the book of Romans. First two of 83 00:04:14,065 --> 00:04:22,520 [Speaker 2] chapter ten says, for I can righteousness that 84 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,825 [Speaker 2] comes from God and sought to establish their 85 00:04:25,825 --> 00:04:29,685 [Speaker 2] own. They did not submit to God's righteousness. 86 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:32,520 [Speaker 2] Christ is the end end of the law 87 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,000 [Speaker 2] so that there may be righteousness for everyone 88 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,800 [Speaker 2] who is chosen by God. No, for everyone 89 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,005 [Speaker 2] who believes. Why didn't they believe? Because they 90 00:04:41,005 --> 00:04:43,485 [Speaker 2] did not submit to God's righteousness, not because 91 00:04:43,485 --> 00:04:46,285 [Speaker 2] God didn't choose them. In fact, the whole 92 00:04:46,285 --> 00:04:48,205 [Speaker 2] point of Romans nine is God did choose 93 00:04:48,205 --> 00:04:51,690 [Speaker 2] them to be the nation through which he 94 00:04:51,690 --> 00:04:55,050 [Speaker 2] was gonna save the world, but individuals still 95 00:04:55,050 --> 00:05:00,145 [Speaker 2] needed to trust in Jesus. In fact, that's 96 00:05:00,145 --> 00:05:01,664 [Speaker 2] why Paul is going on and on about 97 00:05:01,664 --> 00:05:02,305 [Speaker 0] you got to you got 98 00:05:02,305 --> 00:05:04,705 [Speaker 2] to come to God by faith, not by 99 00:05:04,705 --> 00:05:08,470 [Speaker 2] works. So the kind of election Romans nine 100 00:05:08,470 --> 00:05:10,070 [Speaker 2] is talking about is the election of the 101 00:05:10,070 --> 00:05:12,330 [Speaker 2] nation of Israel, not the election of individuals 102 00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:15,485 [Speaker 2] to salvation. And then last week, we went 103 00:05:15,485 --> 00:05:18,605 [Speaker 2] through the knowledge that Moses had of the 104 00:05:18,605 --> 00:05:21,405 [Speaker 2] Egyptian culture and religious practices. That's where the 105 00:05:21,405 --> 00:05:25,430 [Speaker 2] hardening of the heart comes from, Because if 106 00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:27,509 [Speaker 2] you harden Pharaoh's heart, it meant he wasn't 107 00:05:27,509 --> 00:05:29,190 [Speaker 2] going to make it in the afterlife because 108 00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:30,789 [Speaker 2] his heart was going to be heavier than 109 00:05:30,789 --> 00:05:33,692 [Speaker 2] a feather. Heavier than a feather. And that 110 00:05:33,692 --> 00:05:33,783 [Speaker 2] meant his heart was going to be devoured 111 00:05:33,783 --> 00:05:38,435 [Speaker 2] by the demon goddess Ammit. And then we 112 00:05:38,435 --> 00:05:42,379 [Speaker 2] pointed out in chapter eleven that the clincher 113 00:05:42,379 --> 00:05:45,280 [Speaker 2] here is when Paul says in Romans eleven 114 00:05:45,419 --> 00:05:48,139 [Speaker 2] twenty eight, as far as the gospel is 115 00:05:48,139 --> 00:05:51,224 [Speaker 2] concerned, they meaning Israel are enemies on your 116 00:05:51,224 --> 00:05:53,224 [Speaker 2] account. But as far as election is concerned, 117 00:05:53,224 --> 00:05:54,925 [Speaker 2] they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 118 00:05:55,785 --> 00:05:58,630 [Speaker 2] So he's bifurcating. He's separating the gospel from 119 00:05:58,630 --> 00:06:01,930 [Speaker 2] election. You can't do that if this election 120 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:04,615 [Speaker 2] is to the gospel. It's obviously not to 121 00:06:04,615 --> 00:06:06,615 [Speaker 2] the gospel. It's the election of the nation 122 00:06:06,615 --> 00:06:09,895 [Speaker 2] of Israel to bring forth the nation through 123 00:06:09,895 --> 00:06:11,895 [Speaker 2] whom God was going to save the whole 124 00:06:11,895 --> 00:06:15,009 [Speaker 2] world. And then we went through the passages 125 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:19,069 [Speaker 2] in Ephesians pointing out that predestined doesn't mean 126 00:06:19,069 --> 00:06:21,835 [Speaker 2] you don't have a choice. It essentially means 127 00:06:21,835 --> 00:06:24,235 [Speaker 2] that once you make the choice, once you 128 00:06:24,235 --> 00:06:27,675 [Speaker 2] believe, once you're in Christ, you're guaranteed to 129 00:06:27,675 --> 00:06:30,960 [Speaker 2] be glorified. We also dealt with some passages 130 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:33,660 [Speaker 2] in John Chapter six, and there was an 131 00:06:33,660 --> 00:06:36,400 [Speaker 2] entire debate on John six forty four between 132 00:06:37,615 --> 00:06:39,935 [Speaker 2] Layton Flowers and James White. We'll put that 133 00:06:39,935 --> 00:06:42,575 [Speaker 2] in the show notes. And this is about 134 00:06:42,575 --> 00:06:47,590 [Speaker 2] the place we ended last week where we 135 00:06:47,590 --> 00:06:50,550 [Speaker 2] said even if God is electing people to 136 00:06:50,550 --> 00:06:57,635 [Speaker 2] salvation, it really is unavoidable because any universe 137 00:06:57,695 --> 00:07:00,515 [Speaker 2] God elects to create, he knows the outcome, 138 00:07:00,895 --> 00:07:03,455 [Speaker 2] but he's not doing it against our free 139 00:07:03,455 --> 00:07:05,580 [Speaker 2] choice. He's doing it in accord with our 140 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:08,300 [Speaker 2] free choice. In fact, that's what first Peter 141 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:10,940 [Speaker 2] chapter one says. The very first and second 142 00:07:10,940 --> 00:07:14,160 [Speaker 2] verse says this, Peter, an apostle of Jesus 143 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:18,074 [Speaker 2] Christ to God's elect, strangers in the world 144 00:07:18,215 --> 00:07:24,460 [Speaker 2] scattered throughout Pontius, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithina. 145 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,980 [Speaker 2] Here's the key phrase. Who have been chosen 146 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,985 [Speaker 2] according to the foreknowledge of God the Father 147 00:07:32,685 --> 00:07:34,765 [Speaker 2] through the sanctifying work of the Spirit for 148 00:07:34,765 --> 00:07:39,965 [Speaker 2] obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his 149 00:07:39,965 --> 00:07:43,130 [Speaker 2] blood chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. 150 00:07:43,130 --> 00:07:45,070 [Speaker 2] Now, the Bible is written from our perspective. 151 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:49,105 [Speaker 2] It's foreknowledge from our perspective, but it's just 152 00:07:49,105 --> 00:07:52,385 [Speaker 2] knowledge to God's perspective. God doesn't have to 153 00:07:52,385 --> 00:07:54,145 [Speaker 2] look down the corridor of time and go, 154 00:07:54,145 --> 00:07:55,665 [Speaker 2] gee, I wonder. Let me see what those 155 00:07:55,665 --> 00:07:58,500 [Speaker 2] guys are gonna do. He already knows. He 156 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:02,740 [Speaker 2] knows all things. He's he's infinite, which means 157 00:08:02,740 --> 00:08:05,780 [Speaker 2] he knows everything there is to know, including 158 00:08:05,780 --> 00:08:08,525 [Speaker 2] what you're gonna do. Oh, but I don't 159 00:08:08,525 --> 00:08:10,125 [Speaker 2] have free will. No. You have free will 160 00:08:10,125 --> 00:08:11,645 [Speaker 2] to do what you're gonna do. God just 161 00:08:11,645 --> 00:08:13,965 [Speaker 2] knows how you're freely gonna do what you're 162 00:08:13,965 --> 00:08:15,885 [Speaker 2] gonna do. He knows the free choices you're 163 00:08:15,885 --> 00:08:20,770 [Speaker 2] gonna make. You still have free will. Just 164 00:08:20,770 --> 00:08:22,530 [Speaker 2] because God knows what you're freely going to 165 00:08:22,530 --> 00:08:24,530 [Speaker 2] do doesn't mean you don't have free will. 166 00:08:24,530 --> 00:08:28,544 [Speaker 2] We unpack this more, in the last program, 167 00:08:28,544 --> 00:08:29,824 [Speaker 2] so you got to go back and listen 168 00:08:29,824 --> 00:08:33,584 [Speaker 2] to the last program. And for people to 169 00:08:33,584 --> 00:08:37,940 [Speaker 2] say that, well, you're negating the sovereignty of 170 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:40,820 [Speaker 2] God if you give people free will. I 171 00:08:40,820 --> 00:08:43,459 [Speaker 2] think that's absolute nonsense. In fact, I think 172 00:08:43,459 --> 00:08:46,345 [Speaker 2] God is so sovereign that he can get 173 00:08:46,345 --> 00:08:49,705 [Speaker 2] his will done through our free will. If 174 00:08:49,705 --> 00:08:51,600 [Speaker 2] you're saying in order for God to remain 175 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,160 [Speaker 2] sovereign, he can't give other creatures free will. 176 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,880 [Speaker 2] That's not a very sovereign God. You're saying 177 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,700 [Speaker 2] there's something God can't do that's logically possible. 178 00:09:00,795 --> 00:09:05,055 [Speaker 2] Why can't he sovereignly give us free will? 179 00:09:05,275 --> 00:09:09,089 [Speaker 2] Suppose he sovereignly decides to do that. Who 180 00:09:09,089 --> 00:09:12,370 [Speaker 2] are you to say he can't? Apparently, that's 181 00:09:12,370 --> 00:09:16,665 [Speaker 2] what he's done because you can't have love 182 00:09:16,665 --> 00:09:18,505 [Speaker 2] without free will. In fact, we'll unpack that 183 00:09:18,505 --> 00:09:21,225 [Speaker 2] more in a minute. To say that God 184 00:09:21,225 --> 00:09:24,180 [Speaker 2] must be a puppet master, that he has 185 00:09:24,180 --> 00:09:27,060 [Speaker 2] to make all the choices for us to 186 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:30,180 [Speaker 2] get his will done, I think, is to 187 00:09:30,180 --> 00:09:32,680 [Speaker 2] diminish the power and the glory of God. 188 00:09:34,015 --> 00:09:37,535 [Speaker 2] I mean, Layton Flowers has a analogy here. 189 00:09:37,535 --> 00:09:39,615 [Speaker 2] He says, who is the more glorious chess 190 00:09:39,615 --> 00:09:42,230 [Speaker 2] master? The one who can beat you no 191 00:09:42,230 --> 00:09:44,310 [Speaker 2] matter what you do, no matter what move 192 00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:46,550 [Speaker 2] you make, or the one that has to 193 00:09:46,550 --> 00:09:49,190 [Speaker 2] tell you where to move in order to 194 00:09:49,190 --> 00:09:53,175 [Speaker 2] beat you. Obviously, the more glorious chess master 195 00:09:54,115 --> 00:09:56,595 [Speaker 2] is the one who can allow you to 196 00:09:56,595 --> 00:09:58,675 [Speaker 2] make any move you want, and he's still 197 00:09:58,675 --> 00:10:01,130 [Speaker 2] gonna win. Not the guy who says in 198 00:10:01,130 --> 00:10:01,690 [Speaker 2] order for me to 199 00:10:01,690 --> 00:10:02,970 [Speaker 0] beat you, I've got to I've got to 200 00:10:02,970 --> 00:10:06,410 [Speaker 0] basically move the pieces for you. That wouldn't 201 00:10:06,410 --> 00:10:07,390 [Speaker 0] be very glorious. 202 00:10:07,555 --> 00:10:09,394 [Speaker 2] Or imagine a football team. What's a more 203 00:10:09,394 --> 00:10:11,795 [Speaker 2] glorious football team? The one that beats you 204 00:10:11,795 --> 00:10:14,675 [Speaker 2] no matter what place you run or the 205 00:10:14,675 --> 00:10:16,860 [Speaker 2] one that in order to beat you takes 206 00:10:16,860 --> 00:10:18,780 [Speaker 2] your free will away by telling you what 207 00:10:18,780 --> 00:10:20,780 [Speaker 2] plays to run so they can be ready 208 00:10:20,780 --> 00:10:24,780 [Speaker 2] and stop them. Obviously, the more glorious football 209 00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:26,645 [Speaker 2] team is the one that can give you 210 00:10:26,645 --> 00:10:29,045 [Speaker 2] all the freedom you want and still beat 211 00:10:29,045 --> 00:10:32,505 [Speaker 2] you down, still win. 212 00:10:34,690 --> 00:10:37,730 [Speaker 0] That brings more glory to God, not that 213 00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:39,970 [Speaker 0] he has to control everything and take free 214 00:10:39,970 --> 00:10:43,694 [Speaker 0] will away from you. God is so sovereign 215 00:10:43,694 --> 00:10:43,855 [Speaker 0] that 216 00:10:43,855 --> 00:10:46,654 [Speaker 2] he can get his will done through our 217 00:10:46,654 --> 00:10:51,029 [Speaker 2] free will. So, yes, God elected to create 218 00:10:51,029 --> 00:10:54,649 [Speaker 2] this universe. And in that sense, he predestined 219 00:10:54,709 --> 00:10:58,335 [Speaker 2] the outcome. He guaranteed the outcome. It's guaranteed. 220 00:10:58,335 --> 00:11:00,495 [Speaker 2] Why? Because he knew what we do, but 221 00:11:00,495 --> 00:11:01,935 [Speaker 2] he did it in accord with our free 222 00:11:01,935 --> 00:11:05,670 [Speaker 2] will, not against our free will. Billy Graham 223 00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:09,990 [Speaker 2] freely chose to follow Jesus. So far, Richard 224 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:13,635 [Speaker 2] Dawkins has freely chose to reject Jesus. Both 225 00:11:13,935 --> 00:11:18,495 [Speaker 2] are freely doing what they're doing. And yet 226 00:11:18,495 --> 00:11:21,155 [Speaker 2] both God always knew what they would do. 227 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:22,960 [Speaker 2] He always knew Billy Graham would believe, and 228 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,280 [Speaker 2] he always knew Richard Dawkins wouldn't, at least 229 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:26,960 [Speaker 2] at this point. Who knows? Maybe Richard Dawkins 230 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,400 [Speaker 2] will come around. He's speaking a lot more 231 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,825 [Speaker 2] favorably about Christianity lately. You never know. 232 00:11:34,445 --> 00:11:37,485 [Speaker 0] Now, you might say, well, I got to 233 00:11:37,485 --> 00:11:39,805 [Speaker 2] point out one other passage here. We've already 234 00:11:39,805 --> 00:11:42,030 [Speaker 2] in the last podcast, we talked about some 235 00:11:42,030 --> 00:11:44,110 [Speaker 2] passages that talk about how God wants everyone 236 00:11:44,110 --> 00:11:46,110 [Speaker 2] to be saved. We talk about Ezekiel eighteen 237 00:11:46,110 --> 00:11:48,485 [Speaker 2] thirty two for I take no pleasure in 238 00:11:48,485 --> 00:11:50,405 [Speaker 2] the death of anyone declares the Lord, repent 239 00:11:50,405 --> 00:11:53,925 [Speaker 2] and live. Second Peter three nine says the 240 00:11:53,925 --> 00:11:56,405 [Speaker 2] Lord is slack, not concerning his promises. Some 241 00:11:56,405 --> 00:11:58,709 [Speaker 2] count slackness, but his long suffering toward us. 242 00:11:58,709 --> 00:12:00,870 [Speaker 2] In other words, he's patient with us, not 243 00:12:00,870 --> 00:12:03,190 [Speaker 2] willing that any should perish, but that all 244 00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:06,975 [Speaker 2] should come to repentance. Well, I also mentioned 245 00:12:07,195 --> 00:12:10,555 [Speaker 2] first Timothy two. I'm going to read an 246 00:12:10,555 --> 00:12:12,875 [Speaker 2] expanded section of first Timothy two, a few 247 00:12:12,875 --> 00:12:14,715 [Speaker 2] more verses than what I read last time 248 00:12:14,715 --> 00:12:19,020 [Speaker 2] because I think it's, provides more context. Here's 249 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:22,380 [Speaker 2] how First Timothy two starts. I urge then, 250 00:12:22,380 --> 00:12:26,085 [Speaker 2] first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession, and 251 00:12:26,085 --> 00:12:29,545 [Speaker 2] Thanksgiving be made for all people, for kings 252 00:12:29,605 --> 00:12:32,620 [Speaker 2] and all those in authority that we may 253 00:12:32,620 --> 00:12:35,200 [Speaker 2] live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness 254 00:12:35,260 --> 00:12:37,980 [Speaker 2] and holiness. Let me stop right there, ladies 255 00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:39,900 [Speaker 2] and gentlemen. That applies to our country right 256 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:43,005 [Speaker 0] now. Okay. We're just coming out of 257 00:12:43,005 --> 00:12:46,205 [Speaker 2] a Republican convention. In fact, as I'm recording 258 00:12:46,205 --> 00:12:50,010 [Speaker 2] this and recording this on Thursday, July eighteenth. 259 00:12:50,070 --> 00:12:53,350 [Speaker 2] So it hasn't ended yet. As you're listening 260 00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:56,650 [Speaker 2] to this, I haven't heard President Trump's, address. 261 00:12:56,985 --> 00:12:59,165 [Speaker 2] I don't know how it ultimately turned out. 262 00:13:00,665 --> 00:13:02,185 [Speaker 2] And I don't know that Biden's out of 263 00:13:02,185 --> 00:13:03,865 [Speaker 2] the race yet. If you're listening to this 264 00:13:03,865 --> 00:13:06,940 [Speaker 2] on Tuesday, sources are saying he's out already. 265 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,560 [Speaker 2] In any event, this is a time of 266 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:13,640 [Speaker 2] upheaval, quite obviously. President Trump was almost murdered 267 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,735 [Speaker 2] last week, And there are all sorts of 268 00:13:15,735 --> 00:13:18,535 [Speaker 2] questions. We did a podcast on it last 269 00:13:18,535 --> 00:13:21,495 [Speaker 2] week. Regardless of all that, we all ought 270 00:13:21,495 --> 00:13:24,200 [Speaker 2] to be praying for anybody involved. All of 271 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:31,455 [Speaker 2] our leaders Trump, Biden, Harris, anybody in the 272 00:13:31,455 --> 00:13:33,455 [Speaker 2] Senate and in the Congress, any of our 273 00:13:33,455 --> 00:13:36,735 [Speaker 2] governors and state and local officials. We ought 274 00:13:36,735 --> 00:13:40,149 [Speaker 0] to be praying for everyone. Why? That we 275 00:13:40,149 --> 00:13:42,550 [Speaker 0] may live peaceful and quiet lives in all 276 00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:46,550 [Speaker 0] godliness and holiness. A good government is conducive 277 00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:51,704 [Speaker 0] to that. And we should we should we 278 00:13:51,704 --> 00:13:54,024 [Speaker 0] should pray for everybody, not just so we 279 00:13:54,024 --> 00:13:56,530 [Speaker 0] can live peaceful and quiet lives, but because 280 00:13:56,530 --> 00:13:58,130 [Speaker 0] we care about people and want them to 281 00:13:58,130 --> 00:13:59,750 [Speaker 2] know the truth and want us to lead 282 00:14:00,290 --> 00:14:03,650 [Speaker 2] lead us well. Anyway, the next verse says 283 00:14:03,650 --> 00:14:05,715 [Speaker 2] this. This is good that you're praying for 284 00:14:05,715 --> 00:14:07,815 [Speaker 2] these people and please is God, our savior, 285 00:14:07,955 --> 00:14:10,995 [Speaker 2] who wants all people to be saved and 286 00:14:10,995 --> 00:14:13,655 [Speaker 2] to come to a knowledge of the truth. 287 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,140 [Speaker 2] For there is one God and one mediator 288 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,400 [Speaker 2] between God and man, the man Christ Jesus 289 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,175 [Speaker 2] who gave himself as a ransom for all 290 00:14:24,175 --> 00:14:28,255 [Speaker 2] people doesn't say he gave us gave himself 291 00:14:28,255 --> 00:14:31,660 [Speaker 2] as a ransom for just some gave himself 292 00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:34,060 [Speaker 2] as a ransom for all people. Now, not 293 00:14:34,060 --> 00:14:38,060 [Speaker 2] all people accept the ransom, but God has 294 00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:41,274 [Speaker 2] provided it. You know, this is one of 295 00:14:41,274 --> 00:14:43,595 [Speaker 2] the problems with the Calvinistic view. You know, 296 00:14:43,595 --> 00:14:46,395 [Speaker 2] the Calvinistic tulip. You've probably heard the tulip 297 00:14:46,395 --> 00:14:49,290 [Speaker 2] acronym, you know, t total depravity. You unconditional 298 00:14:49,510 --> 00:14:52,710 [Speaker 2] election. Well, the L is limited atonement that 299 00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:55,110 [Speaker 2] God only died for some people. This isn't 300 00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:57,375 [Speaker 2] what this verse says. God died for all 301 00:14:57,375 --> 00:14:59,935 [Speaker 2] people. He gave himself as a ransom for 302 00:14:59,935 --> 00:15:04,115 [Speaker 2] all people. In fact, probably the most famous 303 00:15:04,175 --> 00:15:07,300 [Speaker 2] verse in the Bible for God so loved 304 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:09,620 [Speaker 2] the world that he gave his one and 305 00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:11,459 [Speaker 2] only son that whoever believes in him shall 306 00:15:11,459 --> 00:15:13,300 [Speaker 2] not perish but have eternal life doesn't say 307 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:17,175 [Speaker 2] for God so loved the elect. He loved 308 00:15:17,175 --> 00:15:22,135 [Speaker 2] the world. And that's important because it tells 309 00:15:22,135 --> 00:15:24,075 [Speaker 2] you something about the nature of God. 310 00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:27,800 [Speaker 0] So, if God wants all to be saved, 311 00:15:28,579 --> 00:15:30,660 [Speaker 0] then why aren't all why why isn't everyone 312 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:33,595 [Speaker 0] saved? And the answer is free will. Now, 313 00:15:33,595 --> 00:15:37,855 [Speaker 0] you might ask, well, why aren't more saved? 314 00:15:39,915 --> 00:15:41,915 [Speaker 2] Why couldn't God have created a universe where 315 00:15:41,915 --> 00:15:47,950 [Speaker 2] everyone believed? Well, that's logically possible, but it's 316 00:15:47,950 --> 00:15:52,135 [Speaker 2] probably not actually achievable with free creatures because 317 00:15:52,135 --> 00:15:56,055 [Speaker 2] even an all powerful God can't force free 318 00:15:56,055 --> 00:15:57,895 [Speaker 2] creatures to do what he wants, because that 319 00:15:57,895 --> 00:16:00,530 [Speaker 2] would be a contradiction. When we say God 320 00:16:00,530 --> 00:16:02,870 [Speaker 2] is all powerful, what we mean is God 321 00:16:03,010 --> 00:16:05,810 [Speaker 2] can do whatever is logically possible. But even 322 00:16:05,810 --> 00:16:10,144 [Speaker 2] God can't do logically impossible things like he 323 00:16:10,144 --> 00:16:13,425 [Speaker 2] can't create a square circle. Doesn't exist. Can't 324 00:16:13,425 --> 00:16:16,545 [Speaker 2] create a married bachelor. Doesn't exist. I know 325 00:16:16,545 --> 00:16:19,000 [Speaker 2] some guys try, but no. Can't create a 326 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,680 [Speaker 2] five sided triangle. Doesn't exist. Can't create an 327 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,040 [Speaker 2] honest politician. Yeah. There are some things that 328 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,785 [Speaker 2] are just too hard for God. Okay? In 329 00:16:28,785 --> 00:16:30,305 [Speaker 2] fact, you can do some things that God 330 00:16:30,305 --> 00:16:32,865 [Speaker 2] can't do. What can you do? Well, you 331 00:16:32,865 --> 00:16:34,625 [Speaker 2] can. You can lie. God can't lie. If 332 00:16:34,625 --> 00:16:35,665 [Speaker 2] he could lie, he wouldn't be the 333 00:16:35,665 --> 00:16:38,770 [Speaker 0] standard of truth. God, you can go 334 00:16:38,770 --> 00:16:43,170 [Speaker 2] out of existence. God can't. God can, or 335 00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:44,690 [Speaker 2] you can change. God can't. What's he going 336 00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:46,605 [Speaker 2] to change from? He's already a perfect being. 337 00:16:46,925 --> 00:16:49,885 [Speaker 2] Any change would necessitate a move from perfection 338 00:16:49,885 --> 00:16:50,545 [Speaker 2] to imperfection 339 00:16:52,445 --> 00:16:56,890 [Speaker 0] so God can't force free creatures to do 340 00:16:56,890 --> 00:17:00,890 [Speaker 0] what he wants. But he can create a 341 00:17:00,890 --> 00:17:04,205 [Speaker 0] world of free creatures where some 342 00:17:04,205 --> 00:17:06,645 [Speaker 2] of them believe freely and some of them 343 00:17:06,645 --> 00:17:08,804 [Speaker 2] don't. And that's the world God chose to 344 00:17:08,804 --> 00:17:11,924 [Speaker 2] create. Is God obligated not to create because 345 00:17:11,924 --> 00:17:15,130 [Speaker 2] some people he creates don't believe? Are those 346 00:17:15,130 --> 00:17:18,750 [Speaker 2] non believers given veto power over God's creation? 347 00:17:18,890 --> 00:17:20,410 [Speaker 2] I don't think so. Why does that make 348 00:17:20,410 --> 00:17:23,804 [Speaker 2] any sense? The people who don't believe freely 349 00:17:23,804 --> 00:17:27,804 [Speaker 2] don't believe again. If you take free will 350 00:17:27,804 --> 00:17:31,280 [Speaker 2] away, you're you're you're creating all sorts of 351 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,320 [Speaker 2] problems. In fact, here are some of the 352 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,480 [Speaker 2] problems. Well, before I do it, before I 353 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,160 [Speaker 2] get there, let me just point out this. 354 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,625 [Speaker 2] What God actually did. He created a world 355 00:17:40,625 --> 00:17:43,184 [Speaker 2] of free creatures where the maximum number 356 00:17:43,184 --> 00:17:45,524 [Speaker 0] of people believe in the minimum number of 357 00:17:46,919 --> 00:17:49,160 [Speaker 0] people don't believe. And he 358 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,880 [Speaker 2] knew that before he created this universe, he 359 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,705 [Speaker 2] knew some would believe in some wouldn't. And 360 00:17:55,705 --> 00:17:59,705 [Speaker 2] so that's the universe we have. And people 361 00:17:59,705 --> 00:18:04,580 [Speaker 2] are freely believing and freely rejecting. God wants 362 00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:06,179 [Speaker 2] all of them to believe, but some of 363 00:18:06,179 --> 00:18:08,659 [Speaker 2] them don't because they have free will. Now, 364 00:18:08,659 --> 00:18:11,335 [Speaker 2] what are the stakes of believing in this 365 00:18:11,335 --> 00:18:13,755 [Speaker 2] hard five point Calvinism? What are the implications? 366 00:18:14,775 --> 00:18:17,175 [Speaker 2] Well, my coauthor, Doctor. Norman Geiser, who dealt 367 00:18:17,175 --> 00:18:18,850 [Speaker 2] in this manner quite a bit, in fact, 368 00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:21,970 [Speaker 2] he wrote a book on it called Chosen 369 00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:23,490 [Speaker 2] But Free, a great book to get if 370 00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:24,690 [Speaker 2] you want to get into this in much 371 00:18:24,690 --> 00:18:28,914 [Speaker 2] more detail, Pointed out that he's had several 372 00:18:28,914 --> 00:18:31,715 [Speaker 2] people come to him who were just depressed 373 00:18:31,715 --> 00:18:35,850 [Speaker 2] with fatalism, Even pastors. There's been pastors he's 374 00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:38,250 [Speaker 2] known that one pastor is about to give 375 00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:41,049 [Speaker 2] up being a pastor until he read chosen 376 00:18:41,049 --> 00:18:43,034 [Speaker 2] but free and he said just just liberated 377 00:18:43,095 --> 00:18:43,835 [Speaker 2] my mind. 378 00:18:45,015 --> 00:18:46,294 [Speaker 0] Because I really thought, you know, what? Why 379 00:18:46,294 --> 00:18:46,335 [Speaker 0] am 380 00:18:46,335 --> 00:18:48,135 [Speaker 2] I even doing evangelism? I mean, what if 381 00:18:48,135 --> 00:18:50,395 [Speaker 2] God is pulling all the strings? What's the 382 00:18:50,455 --> 00:18:54,760 [Speaker 2] point? Yeah, exactly. No, this doesn't necessarily prove 383 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,280 [Speaker 2] Calvinism's fault. It's just a real big negative 384 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,735 [Speaker 2] implication of it. Well, actually, I might say 385 00:19:03,355 --> 00:19:05,615 [Speaker 2] that the real hard for five point Calvinism, 386 00:19:05,755 --> 00:19:08,175 [Speaker 2] if true, would be impossible to prove why. 387 00:19:08,289 --> 00:19:10,130 [Speaker 2] Because if God makes all our choices for 388 00:19:10,130 --> 00:19:15,090 [Speaker 2] us, then he's making the choice for what 389 00:19:15,090 --> 00:19:18,975 [Speaker 2] we believe. If he's making the choice for 390 00:19:18,975 --> 00:19:21,934 [Speaker 2] what we believe, that would mean that some 391 00:19:21,934 --> 00:19:25,450 [Speaker 2] people are believing false things and God is 392 00:19:25,450 --> 00:19:28,670 [Speaker 2] giving them those false thoughts. So now God 393 00:19:28,970 --> 00:19:31,450 [Speaker 2] is a deceiver. So how can we trust 394 00:19:31,450 --> 00:19:35,875 [Speaker 2] a deceiver at all? So this is a 395 00:19:35,875 --> 00:19:37,315 [Speaker 2] problem if God is giving us 396 00:19:37,315 --> 00:19:40,410 [Speaker 0] all our thoughts. Now, to be fair, one 397 00:19:40,410 --> 00:19:42,570 [Speaker 2] of the great five point Calvinists was RC 398 00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:44,650 [Speaker 2] Sproul. And I love RC Sproul. I mean, 399 00:19:44,650 --> 00:19:46,970 [Speaker 2] he passed away six, seven years ago. He 400 00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:49,870 [Speaker 2] was a great teacher. And what he said, 401 00:19:50,715 --> 00:19:52,635 [Speaker 2] he basically said, we do have free will 402 00:19:52,635 --> 00:19:55,515 [Speaker 2] to make certain choices, but not the the 403 00:19:55,515 --> 00:20:01,070 [Speaker 2] free will to choose God. So Doctor. Sproul's 404 00:20:01,070 --> 00:20:03,710 [Speaker 2] position appeared to be less deterministic than, say, 405 00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:06,684 [Speaker 2] the materialistic atheists who say that, you know, 406 00:20:06,684 --> 00:20:09,644 [Speaker 2] we're just like moist robots. They will say 407 00:20:09,644 --> 00:20:11,884 [Speaker 2] that God gave or they will say that 408 00:20:11,884 --> 00:20:13,804 [Speaker 2] physics gave us all our thoughts where maybe 409 00:20:13,804 --> 00:20:15,600 [Speaker 2] the hard five point Calvinist will say, God 410 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,320 [Speaker 2] gave us all our thoughts. But Sproul is 411 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:19,919 [Speaker 2] kind of taking a middle position saying, no, 412 00:20:19,919 --> 00:20:22,480 [Speaker 2] no, no. You know, we still have the 413 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,225 [Speaker 2] free will to make some choices, just not 414 00:20:26,445 --> 00:20:29,405 [Speaker 2] the choice to choose Jesus. Now, that would 415 00:20:29,405 --> 00:20:31,830 [Speaker 2] appear to me to be really kind of 416 00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:34,070 [Speaker 2] arbitrary. Why would God give us the free 417 00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:37,049 [Speaker 2] will to make choices that aren't as momentous? 418 00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:39,910 [Speaker 2] Certainly not the most momentous choice we could 419 00:20:39,910 --> 00:20:41,735 [Speaker 2] ever make, whether or not to follow Jesus. 420 00:20:41,735 --> 00:20:43,335 [Speaker 2] Why would he give us free will to 421 00:20:43,335 --> 00:20:46,294 [Speaker 2] do the more trivial choices but not the 422 00:20:46,294 --> 00:20:49,995 [Speaker 2] ultimate choice? That doesn't seem to make sense. 423 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,279 [Speaker 2] And in fact, here's the problem. It makes 424 00:20:56,279 --> 00:20:59,260 [Speaker 2] God, Calvinism does this hard five point Calvinism, 425 00:20:59,845 --> 00:21:04,405 [Speaker 2] the author of evil. Because if God is 426 00:21:04,405 --> 00:21:07,445 [Speaker 2] giving us is making all our choices, if 427 00:21:07,445 --> 00:21:12,100 [Speaker 2] we don't really have free will, then God 428 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:14,659 [Speaker 2] is the one making those choices for us. 429 00:21:14,659 --> 00:21:16,500 [Speaker 2] And some of the choices we make are 430 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:21,005 [Speaker 2] evil. Many years ago, Doctor. Geissler debated a 431 00:21:21,005 --> 00:21:24,045 [Speaker 2] another Dallas Seminary professor when Doctor. Geissler was 432 00:21:24,045 --> 00:21:26,340 [Speaker 2] there in the 1980s, a man by the 433 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:28,420 [Speaker 2] name of John Gerstner and John Gerstner was 434 00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:31,860 [Speaker 2] a big follower of of Jonathan Edwards, who 435 00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:33,620 [Speaker 2] was also a five point Calvinist, as I 436 00:21:33,620 --> 00:21:36,105 [Speaker 2] understand it anyway. And Geissler and Gerstner were 437 00:21:36,105 --> 00:21:39,385 [Speaker 2] having this debate on five point Calvinism. And 438 00:21:39,385 --> 00:21:41,885 [Speaker 2] at one point, Geissler asked Gerstner this question, 439 00:21:43,410 --> 00:21:46,850 [Speaker 2] does man have free will? And Gerstner said, 440 00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:50,050 [Speaker 2] yes, man has free will to do what 441 00:21:50,050 --> 00:21:53,565 [Speaker 2] he desires, but God gives him the desire 442 00:21:53,565 --> 00:21:56,525 [Speaker 2] of his heart. So Geisler said, well, who 443 00:21:56,525 --> 00:22:00,059 [Speaker 2] gave Adam the desire to sin? And Gerstner 444 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,140 [Speaker 2] said, mystery. And Geisler said, contradiction. 445 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,725 [Speaker 0] Why? Why do you punt to mystery when 446 00:22:09,725 --> 00:22:10,525 [Speaker 0] you get back to 447 00:22:10,525 --> 00:22:14,610 [Speaker 2] the choice of Adam? Because to say that 448 00:22:14,610 --> 00:22:16,930 [Speaker 2] God gave Adam the desire to sin would 449 00:22:16,930 --> 00:22:18,610 [Speaker 2] make God the author of evil. That's why 450 00:22:18,610 --> 00:22:20,530 [Speaker 2] Gerstner tried to avoid it by saying it's 451 00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:23,775 [Speaker 2] a mystery. No, either gave him the choice 452 00:22:23,995 --> 00:22:26,554 [Speaker 2] or not. If he did give him the 453 00:22:26,554 --> 00:22:28,315 [Speaker 2] choice, then God is the author of evil. 454 00:22:28,315 --> 00:22:29,835 [Speaker 2] If he didn't give him the choice, then 455 00:22:29,835 --> 00:22:31,054 [Speaker 2] Calvinism is false. 456 00:22:34,299 --> 00:22:35,520 [Speaker 0] So which is it 457 00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:41,305 [Speaker 2] now? The problem here is, is that when 458 00:22:41,305 --> 00:22:43,065 [Speaker 2] you make God the author of evil, you 459 00:22:43,065 --> 00:22:44,605 [Speaker 2] make him more like Allah. 460 00:22:44,985 --> 00:22:45,945 [Speaker 0] Now, let me be clear 461 00:22:45,945 --> 00:22:47,705 [Speaker 2] on something here. Ladies and gentlemen, I don't 462 00:22:47,705 --> 00:22:51,870 [Speaker 2] want to impugn all Calvinists with this because 463 00:22:53,370 --> 00:22:56,090 [Speaker 2] just because this might be true, what I'm 464 00:22:56,090 --> 00:23:00,605 [Speaker 2] saying doesn't mean that everybody realizes it. I 465 00:23:00,605 --> 00:23:02,784 [Speaker 2] mean, I discover new things all the time, 466 00:23:03,325 --> 00:23:05,485 [Speaker 2] and I didn't know that a previous belief 467 00:23:05,485 --> 00:23:08,760 [Speaker 2] I had led to this other belief. And 468 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,400 [Speaker 2] if I had, maybe I'd reevaluate the first 469 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,840 [Speaker 2] belief. So just because this might be news 470 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,804 [Speaker 2] to you, or this might be news to 471 00:23:18,804 --> 00:23:21,205 [Speaker 2] you if in fact my reason is correct 472 00:23:21,205 --> 00:23:26,030 [Speaker 2] here doesn't mean that you knew this because 473 00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:29,630 [Speaker 2] look, we obviously, if it's news to you, 474 00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:31,070 [Speaker 2] you didn't know it. I learned stuff all 475 00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:31,390 [Speaker 2] the time. 476 00:23:31,390 --> 00:23:33,570 [Speaker 0] I didn't realize those two beliefs were connected. 477 00:23:35,155 --> 00:23:37,255 [Speaker 0] The problem is, I think these are connected. 478 00:23:37,635 --> 00:23:39,895 [Speaker 2] I think that if hard five point Calvinism 479 00:23:39,955 --> 00:23:42,355 [Speaker 2] is true, that God makes choices, particularly when 480 00:23:42,355 --> 00:23:45,540 [Speaker 2] it comes to salvation, then God is the 481 00:23:45,540 --> 00:23:48,980 [Speaker 2] author of evil because he then, against 482 00:23:48,980 --> 00:23:49,620 [Speaker 0] the free will 483 00:23:49,620 --> 00:23:52,785 [Speaker 2] of the individual, sends people made in 484 00:23:52,785 --> 00:23:56,465 [Speaker 0] his image to hell against their will. That 485 00:23:56,465 --> 00:23:57,105 [Speaker 0] would appear to 486 00:23:57,105 --> 00:24:01,970 [Speaker 2] me to be evil. You don't have, a 487 00:24:01,970 --> 00:24:04,230 [Speaker 2] free choice, and yet God is punishing you. 488 00:24:06,210 --> 00:24:07,895 [Speaker 2] Now, think think about it this way, ladies 489 00:24:07,895 --> 00:24:09,335 [Speaker 2] and gentlemen. If we deny that we have 490 00:24:09,335 --> 00:24:11,415 [Speaker 2] free will, then there's no basis for moral 491 00:24:11,415 --> 00:24:13,175 [Speaker 2] accountability. I mean, how can people be held 492 00:24:13,175 --> 00:24:19,990 [Speaker 2] morally responsible for their, say, chemical reactions or 493 00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:23,010 [Speaker 2] for a thought that God gave them an 494 00:24:23,010 --> 00:24:24,915 [Speaker 2] evil thought that they went ahead and did 495 00:24:26,035 --> 00:24:28,135 [Speaker 2] that they had no choice to do otherwise. 496 00:24:29,075 --> 00:24:31,955 [Speaker 2] There's also no basis for reason why. Because 497 00:24:31,955 --> 00:24:34,480 [Speaker 2] reason depends on the ability to choose between 498 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,200 [Speaker 2] at least one correct proposition and at least 499 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,960 [Speaker 2] one incorrect proposition. So how could people engage 500 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,415 [Speaker 2] in debate if all propositions are the result 501 00:24:43,415 --> 00:24:47,655 [Speaker 2] of deterministic matter in motion? Now, this, of 502 00:24:47,655 --> 00:24:50,270 [Speaker 2] course, isn't necessarily the Calvinist point 503 00:24:50,270 --> 00:24:52,050 [Speaker 0] of view, but it certainly is the deterministic 504 00:24:52,270 --> 00:24:56,510 [Speaker 0] point of view. And sometimes Calvinists do take 505 00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:56,830 [Speaker 0] this point 506 00:24:56,830 --> 00:24:58,495 [Speaker 2] of view. They will just say it's not 507 00:24:58,735 --> 00:25:00,735 [Speaker 2] determined by just matter in motion. 508 00:25:00,735 --> 00:25:02,995 [Speaker 0] It's determined by God giving you those choices. 509 00:25:03,855 --> 00:25:05,955 [Speaker 0] Well, why is God given me a choice 510 00:25:07,180 --> 00:25:10,320 [Speaker 0] that's either evil or false? 511 00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:15,020 [Speaker 2] And, of course, without free will, we would 512 00:25:15,020 --> 00:25:21,095 [Speaker 2] be forced to defend the absurd notion that 513 00:25:21,095 --> 00:25:23,174 [Speaker 2] the universe made itself. Well, you could say 514 00:25:23,174 --> 00:25:24,615 [Speaker 2] God had free will to make the universe 515 00:25:24,615 --> 00:25:27,490 [Speaker 2] okay. But then everything from cars to computers 516 00:25:27,550 --> 00:25:27,950 [Speaker 2] that we 517 00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:32,610 [Speaker 0] made was made by not our free choice. 518 00:25:34,294 --> 00:25:35,815 [Speaker 0] Now, if you want to say God did 519 00:25:35,815 --> 00:25:39,015 [Speaker 0] it all, okay, God's given us choices to 520 00:25:39,015 --> 00:25:39,895 [Speaker 0] do good things, but 521 00:25:39,895 --> 00:25:42,870 [Speaker 2] it also means he's given us choices. Or 522 00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:43,270 [Speaker 2] let me put 523 00:25:43,270 --> 00:25:45,430 [Speaker 0] it another way. He's making choices for us 524 00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:48,550 [Speaker 0] to do evil. This is this is 525 00:25:48,550 --> 00:25:52,905 [Speaker 2] a problem, ladies and gentlemen. Whether you're a 526 00:25:53,205 --> 00:25:57,385 [Speaker 2] determinist in the atheistic sense where just molecules 527 00:25:57,605 --> 00:25:59,525 [Speaker 2] bumping into one another are causing us to 528 00:25:59,525 --> 00:26:01,810 [Speaker 2] do things, or you're a hard five point 529 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:04,450 [Speaker 2] Calvinist saying that God is causing us to 530 00:26:04,450 --> 00:26:06,950 [Speaker 2] do all these things. You've got a problem 531 00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:10,275 [Speaker 2] because you don't have moral responsibility either way. 532 00:26:12,195 --> 00:26:15,015 [Speaker 2] And it makes the author of all this 533 00:26:15,955 --> 00:26:19,330 [Speaker 2] doing evil himself. Of course, this would also 534 00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:21,970 [Speaker 2] make love a problem. I've heard some people 535 00:26:21,970 --> 00:26:25,385 [Speaker 2] say some Calvinists say, well, no, you you 536 00:26:25,385 --> 00:26:27,225 [Speaker 2] don't need free will to love. You just 537 00:26:27,225 --> 00:26:28,345 [Speaker 2] love your kids. That kind 538 00:26:28,345 --> 00:26:31,385 [Speaker 0] of thing. Well, there may be instances where 539 00:26:31,385 --> 00:26:32,825 [Speaker 0] you just love people because say 540 00:26:32,825 --> 00:26:36,299 [Speaker 2] they're your children, they're your family. But love 541 00:26:36,299 --> 00:26:38,860 [Speaker 2] is not merely a feeling. How can you 542 00:26:38,860 --> 00:26:40,380 [Speaker 2] love your enemies if love is 543 00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:44,435 [Speaker 0] a feeling? You can't because you don't feel 544 00:26:44,435 --> 00:26:47,555 [Speaker 0] good about your enemies. And how can you 545 00:26:47,555 --> 00:26:52,090 [Speaker 0] vow to love someone in marriage If love 546 00:26:52,090 --> 00:26:55,850 [Speaker 0] is merely a feeling? You can't you can't 547 00:26:55,850 --> 00:26:56,970 [Speaker 0] feel a certain way for 548 00:26:56,970 --> 00:26:58,650 [Speaker 2] the next fifty years. You can't say I'll 549 00:26:58,650 --> 00:27:00,570 [Speaker 2] never be tired. I'll never be hungry. I'll 550 00:27:00,570 --> 00:27:03,355 [Speaker 2] never get angry again. You can't. That would 551 00:27:03,355 --> 00:27:05,195 [Speaker 2] be like saying that when you're at the 552 00:27:05,195 --> 00:27:07,995 [Speaker 2] marriage altar to say, Oh, I love you. 553 00:27:07,995 --> 00:27:09,940 [Speaker 2] And it's all built on feelings. I'm gonna 554 00:27:10,019 --> 00:27:11,620 [Speaker 2] feel like I love you for the next 555 00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:15,299 [Speaker 2] fifty years. You can't do that. In fact, 556 00:27:15,299 --> 00:27:19,735 [Speaker 2] that's why you take a vow. Because love 557 00:27:19,735 --> 00:27:23,335 [Speaker 2] isn't based on feelings. Feelings may start a 558 00:27:23,335 --> 00:27:26,315 [Speaker 2] relationship, but feelings don't necessarily keep a relationship 559 00:27:26,535 --> 00:27:29,960 [Speaker 2] going. That's why you have a vow. You 560 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,559 [Speaker 2] don't need a vow when you feel really 561 00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:33,500 [Speaker 2] good about the other person, when you're infatuated 562 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:34,920 [Speaker 2] with the other person, and all you wanna 563 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,120 [Speaker 2] do is be with the other person. You're 564 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:39,825 [Speaker 2] all lovey dovey. You don't need a vow. 565 00:27:40,005 --> 00:27:41,925 [Speaker 2] You need a vow when you wake up 566 00:27:41,925 --> 00:27:43,765 [Speaker 2] ten years into the marriage and you look 567 00:27:43,765 --> 00:27:45,445 [Speaker 2] over at the person next to you and 568 00:27:45,445 --> 00:27:49,470 [Speaker 2] you go, you again. Why did it have 569 00:27:49,470 --> 00:27:51,390 [Speaker 2] to be you again? That's when you need 570 00:27:51,390 --> 00:27:52,050 [Speaker 2] a vow, 571 00:27:54,645 --> 00:27:57,605 [Speaker 0] And you need free will in order to 572 00:27:57,605 --> 00:28:01,205 [Speaker 0] carry out the vow. If you don't have 573 00:28:01,205 --> 00:28:02,080 [Speaker 0] free will, then how can 574 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,919 [Speaker 2] you be held accountable for wanting to walk 575 00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:04,900 [Speaker 2] out of your marriage? 576 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,360 [Speaker 0] God gave you the the desire to walk 577 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:09,520 [Speaker 0] out 578 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,375 [Speaker 2] of your marriage. Despite the fact he says 579 00:28:12,375 --> 00:28:15,495 [Speaker 2] don't do it. If the hard five point 580 00:28:15,495 --> 00:28:18,135 [Speaker 2] Calvinistic view is true that we don't have 581 00:28:18,135 --> 00:28:21,320 [Speaker 2] free will, This whole universe is a sham. 582 00:28:22,580 --> 00:28:27,684 [Speaker 2] We're just puppets to the puppet master. And 583 00:28:27,684 --> 00:28:31,765 [Speaker 2] this whole moral accountability, good and evil doesn't 584 00:28:31,765 --> 00:28:35,660 [Speaker 2] really exist. That's a really high price to 585 00:28:35,660 --> 00:28:39,100 [Speaker 2] pay. In fact, why would Jesus even need 586 00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:43,075 [Speaker 2] to come if no one ever really did 587 00:28:43,075 --> 00:28:43,575 [Speaker 2] evil? 588 00:28:46,195 --> 00:28:51,570 [Speaker 0] The whole reason that Christianity or that Jesus 589 00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:54,270 [Speaker 0] came was to save us from the problem 590 00:28:54,270 --> 00:28:57,085 [Speaker 0] of evil. If none of 591 00:28:57,085 --> 00:28:58,524 [Speaker 2] us ever did evil, there'd be no need 592 00:28:58,524 --> 00:29:01,325 [Speaker 2] for Jesus to come and save us. But 593 00:29:01,325 --> 00:29:03,390 [Speaker 2] we did do evil and we still do 594 00:29:03,390 --> 00:29:06,190 [Speaker 2] evil. That's why Jesus needed to come. And 595 00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:09,470 [Speaker 2] we did evil and do evil because we're 596 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:13,375 [Speaker 2] corrupt, because our natures are bent that way 597 00:29:13,375 --> 00:29:16,755 [Speaker 2] and we make free choices to do evil. 598 00:29:19,270 --> 00:29:21,450 [Speaker 2] God doesn't make all the choices for us. 599 00:29:23,270 --> 00:29:25,005 [Speaker 0] So there 600 00:29:25,005 --> 00:29:27,725 [Speaker 2] are many other passages maybe 601 00:29:27,725 --> 00:29:31,805 [Speaker 0] we could talk about, but I think when 602 00:29:31,805 --> 00:29:32,045 [Speaker 0] you look 603 00:29:32,045 --> 00:29:36,510 [Speaker 2] at Romans nine, Ephesians one, John six, they 604 00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:38,930 [Speaker 2] don't do what the Calvinists think they do. 605 00:29:39,070 --> 00:29:43,170 [Speaker 2] We are chosen because God knows all things, 606 00:29:43,345 --> 00:29:48,005 [Speaker 2] but we're still free. He's chosen this world 607 00:29:48,065 --> 00:29:51,345 [Speaker 2] knowing what we would freely do. Yahweh is 608 00:29:51,345 --> 00:29:54,590 [Speaker 2] not Allah. He loves all and he wants 609 00:29:54,590 --> 00:29:59,230 [Speaker 2] all to be saved. For God so loved 610 00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:01,165 [Speaker 2] the world that he gave his one and 611 00:30:01,165 --> 00:30:03,565 [Speaker 2] only son that whoever believes in him shall 612 00:30:03,565 --> 00:30:09,539 [Speaker 2] not perish but have eternal life. That's true, 613 00:30:09,539 --> 00:30:13,620 [Speaker 2] ladies and gentlemen. Hard five point Calvinism isn't 614 00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:18,304 [Speaker 2] true, thankfully. Now we're going to investigate more 615 00:30:18,304 --> 00:30:21,105 [Speaker 2] of this, particularly the whole hardening of the 616 00:30:21,105 --> 00:30:26,280 [Speaker 2] heart motif that Moses talks about and Paul 617 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,240 [Speaker 2] talks about when we go to Egypt this 618 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,875 [Speaker 2] December. We're going to Egypt and Saudi Arabia 619 00:30:31,875 --> 00:30:34,115 [Speaker 2] to see the real Mount Sinai. And we're 620 00:30:34,115 --> 00:30:35,815 [Speaker 2] going to look at evidence for the exodus. 621 00:30:36,115 --> 00:30:38,275 [Speaker 2] We're going to see all the amazing sites 622 00:30:38,275 --> 00:30:41,350 [Speaker 2] in Egypt. We're going to see evidence for 623 00:30:41,409 --> 00:30:45,730 [Speaker 2] maybe even Joseph Moses, the Exodus. And then 624 00:30:45,730 --> 00:30:48,155 [Speaker 2] we're going to go and actually climb what 625 00:30:48,155 --> 00:30:50,235 [Speaker 2] we think is the real Mount Sinai in 626 00:30:50,235 --> 00:30:53,215 [Speaker 2] Saudi Arabia. Go to cross examine dot org, 627 00:30:53,675 --> 00:30:57,429 [Speaker 2] click on events. You'll see that trip there. 628 00:30:57,649 --> 00:31:00,130 [Speaker 2] We're only taking one bus. We're about half 629 00:31:00,130 --> 00:31:02,610 [Speaker 2] full right now. You don't want to miss 630 00:31:02,610 --> 00:31:05,845 [Speaker 2] this. It's going to be wonderful. A trip 631 00:31:05,845 --> 00:31:07,525 [Speaker 2] of a lifetime. And we're going to stay 632 00:31:07,525 --> 00:31:10,245 [Speaker 2] in the best places so you can enjoy 633 00:31:10,245 --> 00:31:12,720 [Speaker 2] yourself and rest when we're not out there 634 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,279 [Speaker 2] seeing the amazing sights that very few people 635 00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:17,759 [Speaker 2] get to see. All right, friends. Great being 636 00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:19,360 [Speaker 2] with you. Oh, and by the way, don't 637 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,705 [Speaker 2] forget the online course How to Convince People 638 00:31:23,705 --> 00:31:26,345 [Speaker 2] to be Pro Life with the great Scott 639 00:31:26,345 --> 00:31:32,890 [Speaker 2] Klusendorf. It starts August fifth, and, it's a 640 00:31:32,890 --> 00:31:36,250 [Speaker 2] course that will help you be better equipped 641 00:31:36,250 --> 00:31:38,494 [Speaker 2] to deal with the most divisive issue, one 642 00:31:38,494 --> 00:31:40,255 [Speaker 2] of the most divisive issues in our country, 643 00:31:40,255 --> 00:31:42,815 [Speaker 2] the issue of abortion. It starts again August 644 00:31:42,815 --> 00:31:44,255 [Speaker 2] fifth. And if you're part of the premium 645 00:31:44,255 --> 00:31:47,460 [Speaker 2] version, you're going to want to be a 646 00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:48,580 [Speaker 2] part of that because you're going to be 647 00:31:48,580 --> 00:31:50,659 [Speaker 2] able to ask questions of the great Scott 648 00:31:50,659 --> 00:31:54,985 [Speaker 2] Klusendorf on several Zoom sessions. Also want to 649 00:31:54,985 --> 00:31:56,985 [Speaker 2] mention this weekend, I'm going to be down 650 00:31:56,985 --> 00:32:00,205 [Speaker 2] in Palm Beach with my friend Charlie Kirk, 651 00:32:00,424 --> 00:32:04,000 [Speaker 2] my friend Seth Dillon, Eric Metaxas, Al Beth 652 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,460 [Speaker 2] Stuckey, and many other speakers at the Believer's 653 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,140 [Speaker 2] Summit put out put out by TP USA 654 00:32:11,365 --> 00:32:12,725 [Speaker 2] Faith. If you wanna be a part of 655 00:32:12,725 --> 00:32:14,085 [Speaker 2] that, and I hope you do, there's gonna 656 00:32:14,085 --> 00:32:16,905 [Speaker 2] be several thousand believers there in Palm Beach. 657 00:32:17,125 --> 00:32:19,205 [Speaker 2] Go to cross examine dot org. Click on 658 00:32:19,205 --> 00:32:20,970 [Speaker 2] events. You will see it there. And Lord 659 00:32:20,970 --> 00:32:23,530 [Speaker 2] willing I'll either see you there or I'll