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And that is our latest project,
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the new Superman reboot...
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Welcome to Conlangery, the podcast about
constructed languages
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and the people who create them.
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I'm George Corley.
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And over in sunny
California, we have David J.
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Peterson and Jessie Peterson.
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Hello.
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Ugh... Hello.
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Goodness, David.
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As usual, David cannot say
hello like a normal person.
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I think that's what you
can conclude from this.
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Yes.
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Oh, I can't see my phone.
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Look, I'm holding it.
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I can see it.
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And also, David has the
most stylish microphone.
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So.
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OK, so
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you guys have a bunch of things that
you guys wanted to talk about, actually.
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So
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where should we start?
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I just want to say...
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Well, let's let's
go ahead and not bury the lead here.
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We are running a second language
creation conference called Kopikon.
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We ran the first one in
September of 2023
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at Georgetown University
in Washington, D.C.
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And the next one is going to be this
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October, October 10th at
the University of Edinburgh.
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And so we're very excited about that.
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And so if you're going
to be in the Edinburgh
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area or want to get to the
Edinburgh area for October 10th,
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we're doing a kind of shortened
program because it's more like
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I would say a destination thing.
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It's going to be like a
whole weekend of fun stuff.
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But we're going to have
some returning speakers.
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That would be myself and Jessie and
Biblaridion and then some new speakers
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from our community, Jake Penny, creator
of the Pankashku conlang for Madame Webb.
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And if you saw the film and didn't notice
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a conlang, it's because the
conlang was cut very sadly.
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One of those situations where Jake learned
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that the conlang was cut
when they went to see the film.
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It's the type of thing that
happens in Hollywood.
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It shouldn't, but it does.
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And, you know, it's not
just language creators.
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It happens to actors, too.
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I, I wish they would
inform people about that.
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Because like I, I know of one other case,
Paul Frommer had had that happen to him.
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And it's just like, why?
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Why don't you tell people when
you've cut their material from the film?
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Yeah, and I'll tell you this.
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There was one experience very early on.
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The the second ever job offer that came
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to the Language Creation Society after
Game of Thrones was a movie called Noah.
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I was the president at that time
and I created a new competition for it.
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A shortened one.
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And somebody got the job, Bill Weldon,
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and he did the work.
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It was good work.
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They liked it.
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But
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I guess that it was for the I don't know
if you ever saw Noah, but there I never
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saw it, but there were these
angels, six armed angel things.
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I don't know.
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Anyway, they were
supposed to speak a conlang.
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They ended up not speaking a conlang.
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And but to the credit of the producer
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on that film, who originally thought
of the idea of having the conlang,
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they told us that ahead of time, in
fact, he contacted me ahead of time.
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And I told Bill well before the movie
had come out that all the conlang material
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had been cut, they decided that they just
didn't want those beings to speak at all.
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Which, OK,
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- he still got paid.
- Creative choice.
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He still got paid.
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So there was that at least.
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But but also it wasn't like he brought his
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entire family to the screening of
the movie to say, hey, check it out.
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Here is my conlang on the big screen.
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And then nothing because that is
pretty much what happened to Jake.
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And it is the type of thing that
happens in Hollywood for others as well.
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I've heard about it for actors, too,
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especially on Defiance, a young
actress, 16 years old, very excited.
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This was going to be her first
ever anything on television or film.
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And she had a whole party.
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Her family were going to watch
the episode when it came out.
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And and yeah, nothing.
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Her character was cut
entirely from the episode.
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Yeah, that's that.
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Yeah, that's that's that's why I
say they should inform people,
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because we understand
that things get cut from films
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and there's creative
decisions there and editing.
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But anyway, let's we don't
need we need to move.
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We need to move on for that.
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But Jake will be there.
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And I think there are there are there
are places where you can see Pankashku...
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Now, oh, yeah, even though
it didn't make it in the film.
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Oh, yeah.
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Jake has used it in at least one relay
and did kind of like a video preview of it.
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Really good work.
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And then we're also having Keras Saryan,
who's who's from the community as well.
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He's actually a postdoc at
the University of Edinburgh,
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you know, in in linguistics.
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And so he's there doing language
work all around and is going
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to present some of his
conlanging work as well.
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Anyway, so that is October
10th, University of Edinburgh.
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It's going to be like 12-ish to 5-ish.
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And then there will be surrounding events.
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OK, that's--
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And it's going to be live
streamed and there's not going to be any
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of the technical issues that
surrounded Kopikon I.
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We hope!
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David, you can't promise these things.
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I'm going to speak it into existence.
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Listen, we are going into it
with more plans to take care of it.
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But we can't promise it
will be free of problems.
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I am I am guessing that this like limited
set of speakers is like a part of that.
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Like to limit the scope of it so
that it doesn't get too like crazy,
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because I know LCC 11 was a little bit
a little bit ago and I presented there and
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it was there were too
many people in multiple
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rooms and it went
a little bit haywire.
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Yeah, if if you're going to do something
like that, you need to go more of the
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convention method where everybody goes
in knowing that there's just going to be a
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bunch of stuff and but
you should expect at least
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attendance somewhere
in like the 500 to 3000
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neighborhood so that
everybody feels like they
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had some attendance
at their at their talks.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But here we have we have Edinburgh 2025.
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All this great for people who
are like in Europe and the UK
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to go to,
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you know, nice to bounce it
around different parts of the world
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Also good for people from Wisconsin if they
just want to get out of town for a little bit.
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Is it's a little difficult
now, David, I have
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a contact at the
University of Wisconsin.
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I might be able to bring it
to me if I can talk her into it.
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We'll see.
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OK, all right.
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We've got we've got plenty of people
who could talk here, but I won't promise
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anybody because I can't even
promise that I'll bring it here.
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But I will think about that.
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But so that's really great.
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And now, as we are recording,
registration is still open?
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Oh, yeah, registration is still open.
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Registration is being handled by
kind of like a third party site through the
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University of Edinburgh, which is honestly
fine by me because I just did it by myself
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last time, this is much less of a headache.
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Now, I cannot I I cannot
guarantee that slots
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will be open by the
time this episode is out.
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So I'll have the link in there.
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You guys can check.
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But if not, there will be a live stream.
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So everybody gets to watch, right?
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There's a special reason why we're holding
Kopikon, both where it is and when it is.
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The the when is because
Jessie got the opportunity
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to put together a
textbook on conlanging
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that is going to be
published by the University
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of Cambridge somewhere
around October 10th.
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We don't know exactly when.
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We won't know until September
when the actual publication date is.
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But it's going to be around then.
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And so the hope is that we can actually
have copies there on sale for Jessie to sign.
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That will be very exciting for me.
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And and people will
be able to buy the book.
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And it's kind of a it's a celebration for.
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For the launch of Jessie's book,
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I informally, you know
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like we had a bunch of people
at Kopikon one, but informally,
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Mark Okrand was kind of
the the keynote. For this one,
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that is Jessie.
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Jessie is going to be
the one that goes last.
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That sounds appropriate for
like, you know, a conlanging textbook.
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And Jessie, we talked
about the your textbook
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when I interviewed
you last last year, I think.
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And yeah, it's it's I understand
it has been a journey.
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And can you tell me
a little bit about like.
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The the getting up to this point.
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And all of that.
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Well, a little bit.
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You're absolutely right.
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It's it's been a journey and...
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It I mean, writing a textbook,
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writing any book that you're going to get
published is always difficult because of,
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you know, the amount of feedback and the
constraints that you may be under because
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this is what they're looking for and
this is what you had hoped to do if you,
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you know, were going to self-publish
and just do what you wanted to put in it.
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So there's always that
sort of back and forth.
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And
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then there's also the well, I
submitted the final draft, which
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looking back in my calendar, I actually
submitted the final book a year ago.
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And then it's been, you know,
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it had to go through editors, external
reviews, and then editors again.
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And then came back to me.
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01:12:16,033 --> 01:12:18,300
And there's been a lot of
back and forth on, you know,
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just everything from the
way that files are inserted.
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So this what I call the post production
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phase is, I swear, almost
as long as the writing phase,
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just just with all the back
and forth and everything.
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01:12:33,266 --> 01:12:40,466
So it is finally now I just
approved the final proofs,
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but they called them the final proofs.
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And then my editor just emailed me today
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and said around July 2nd, I
should have the final proofs.
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I'm like, well, what did
we just spend a week on?
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So
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I think July 2nd is the last official.
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We'll send it off after that, I think,
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01:13:00,666 --> 01:13:03,733
to the printers, if I understand
the process, I think that's
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01:13:03,733 --> 01:13:06,633
the last official one and
it'll go to printers next.
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01:13:06,833 --> 01:13:09,500
But yeah, it has been and I tell you what,
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some things that take
the longest are just no,
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this table really has to
have shading in these cells.
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01:13:14,266 --> 01:13:18,399
And then you go back and forth with
people on how to get the shading right.
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01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,500
And it's kind of important when you're
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01:13:20,500 --> 01:13:26,933
presenting things like the IPA
tables, as they're typically presented.
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01:13:26,933 --> 01:13:30,699
And it's like, no, those those
cells are shaded for a reason.
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01:13:30,899 --> 01:13:32,466
I need them to stay that way.
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01:13:32,666 --> 01:13:35,899
- I mentioned it in the pages--
- The impossible sounds right?
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01:13:35,899 --> 01:13:40,733
You absolutely need to gray those out
because that information is important.
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Right?
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01:13:41,166 --> 01:13:43,199
Yes, yes.
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01:13:43,199 --> 01:13:47,033
Let's let's ... can
we spend a little time just like
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01:13:47,233 --> 01:13:49,600
specifically like talking
about what this is?
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01:13:49,899 --> 01:13:52,433
So like we've had conlanging books before.
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I have behind here.
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01:13:55,566 --> 01:13:58,233
- David's book.
- I see a selection of them.
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01:13:58,233 --> 01:14:03,699
I have somewhere in the house, I
have the Language Construction Kit.
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01:14:03,899 --> 01:14:05,433
Those are like guidebooks.
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But what you're making...
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01:14:09,066 --> 01:14:11,866
It's being published by
Cambridge University Press.
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01:14:12,133 --> 01:14:14,833
It is an actual textbook.
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01:14:15,066 --> 01:14:19,300
And you could tell me what what
that means about the structure of it.
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01:14:19,300 --> 01:14:21,666
But my understanding is that this will be
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available for like professors
to order for their classes, right?
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Sure. Yeah, yeah.
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01:14:25,899 --> 01:14:30,233
So I mean, which I mean, technically
any book that is produced is available
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01:14:30,266 --> 01:14:34,199
for professors to order for
classes, but this was designed.
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01:14:34,199 --> 01:14:35,000
Yeah, yeah.
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This is designed for use
in classrooms, though.
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01:14:38,933 --> 01:14:41,266
The goal was also to keep it
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01:14:41,533 --> 01:14:44,633
hopefully meaningful for people
who just get it on their own.
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01:14:44,833 --> 01:14:47,733
That they could hopefully work
through the material as well.
241
01:14:47,733 --> 01:14:50,633
Because it's a textbook,
there's exercises in it.
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01:14:50,633 --> 01:14:54,000
And you'll notice as you read David's
book, you know, at no point does he stop
243
01:14:54,133 --> 01:14:58,933
and say, "OK, now do this, and
here's this data set.
244
01:14:59,166 --> 01:15:00,399
Let's talk about the answers."
245
01:15:00,399 --> 01:15:02,800
You know, like you just
don't do that for mass market.
246
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,699
And you definitely don't do that when in
David's case, you know, you have an editor
247
01:15:06,733 --> 01:15:10,033
saying, no, you got to
cut like 70000 words.
248
01:15:10,133 --> 01:15:11,500
So.
249
01:15:12,633 --> 01:15:16,600
any notion you have of any sort
of extra stuff like that, you take out.
250
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,899
And so so, yeah, there's exercises.
251
01:15:20,166 --> 01:15:26,433
There's a lot more walkthrough examples
as well, where it's like, you know,
252
01:15:26,533 --> 01:15:30,600
let's set up this hypothetical language,
let's say here are the parameters we're
253
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:34,266
working in, what would you do?
And then following that, if you keep going
254
01:15:34,466 --> 01:15:37,633
in the paragraphs, it says, "OK, well,
here's one way you could have analyzed it
255
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:43,699
and done it," just to show like the thought
process behind the language creation.
256
01:15:43,899 --> 01:15:47,899
And so, yeah, so that's really what makes
it as well that in the massive amounts
257
01:15:47,899 --> 01:15:51,500
of citation that have to go
into an academic textbook that
258
01:15:51,500 --> 01:15:56,266
don't always have to go into
mass market in the same way.
259
01:15:56,266 --> 01:15:59,333
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
260
01:15:59,533 --> 01:16:03,100
You know, George, you
you've written academic
261
01:16:03,366 --> 01:16:06,933
- and so...
- Not a textbook, but a dissertation.
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01:16:07,133 --> 01:16:09,500
But that's that's enough.
263
01:16:09,500 --> 01:16:11,133
That's enough.
264
01:16:11,699 --> 01:16:13,633
And so anyway, yeah, there's
265
01:16:13,833 --> 01:16:17,666
those are the kinds of things
that set it apart from David's book.
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01:16:17,699 --> 01:16:24,199
And the goal is that someone who does not
have a background in linguistics could go
267
01:16:24,199 --> 01:16:29,399
into it and be walked through the process
and at the end of it have a much stronger
268
01:16:29,399 --> 01:16:34,300
grasp on how languages work, ways
that they can use patterns to create
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01:16:34,300 --> 01:16:36,199
their own language and of
course, the assumption from
270
01:16:36,199 --> 01:16:40,466
beginning to end is you're
actually creating a language.
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01:16:40,699 --> 01:16:45,199
And so, yeah, that's
that's what sets it apart.
272
01:16:45,433 --> 01:16:50,800
And I would hope that people
who find, you know, David's book,
273
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:55,300
Art of Language Invention, for
anyone who didn't know that title
274
01:16:55,300 --> 01:16:58,699
and then also Language Construction Kit,
those kinds of books, I would hope that
275
01:16:58,699 --> 01:17:02,699
you would find this another valuable
resource to to go along and kind of fill
276
01:17:02,899 --> 01:17:08,933
in some gaps, especially if you need more
attention to defining terms and, you know,
277
01:17:08,933 --> 01:17:13,866
situating things in context, because
I did have more space to do that.
278
01:17:13,866 --> 01:17:18,800
And it's-- as an introductory textbook,
there's that intention of, you know,
279
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:23,333
I'm going to introduce you to the terms and
really show you how to how to set them out.
280
01:17:23,366 --> 01:17:24,466
And so, yeah.
281
01:17:24,500 --> 01:17:25,233
Yeah.
282
01:17:25,300 --> 01:17:28,266
I'm going to put this the short way.
283
01:17:28,466 --> 01:17:34,233
If you want to be impressed
and entertained, get my book.
284
01:17:34,333 --> 01:17:38,533
If you want to learn how to create
a language, get Jessie's book.
285
01:17:38,733 --> 01:17:39,733
Right.
286
01:17:39,933 --> 01:17:43,800
And I do want to say, like.
287
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:48,633
Obviously, there's like there's a level
of there's an introduction to linguistics.
288
01:17:48,666 --> 01:17:54,600
here, but you also have the
goal, but you also have the goal
289
01:17:54,833 --> 01:17:58,233
of teaching conlanging itself. Right.
290
01:17:58,533 --> 01:18:02,199
So like what is it more about?
291
01:18:02,199 --> 01:18:05,266
Is it more of teaching linguistics
292
01:18:05,266 --> 01:18:10,266
through conlanging or is it
more teaching conlanging?
293
01:18:10,500 --> 01:18:13,199
You know, that.
294
01:18:14,266 --> 01:18:23,333
that that is a great question and
a great way to think about any
295
01:18:23,699 --> 01:18:26,233
constructed language guide or textbook
296
01:18:26,233 --> 01:18:30,399
that may be on the market to really think
about what are the end goals at the end
297
01:18:30,399 --> 01:18:35,600
of this, was it more about teaching
the science as a field or more
298
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:41,600
about this art of language creation and
from my point of view, I think it's more
299
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:47,199
about my textbook is more about the
language creation because what linguistic
300
01:18:47,399 --> 01:18:52,333
concepts are introduced are all
there in support of this process to say,
301
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:56,300
you know, you may never remember
the terms for these patterns again,
302
01:18:56,566 --> 01:18:58,933
but these patterns exist
and you can use them.
303
01:18:58,966 --> 01:19:02,066
And here's how you can use
them in your own language.
304
01:19:02,300 --> 01:19:06,100
And there is, of
course, a lot of data sets.
305
01:19:06,100 --> 01:19:09,300
But I tried really, really hard to sort
306
01:19:09,566 --> 01:19:14,800
of balance the overall scope
of those data sets where
307
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:20,466
examples are provided in natural languages
or conlangs to show the features being
308
01:19:20,466 --> 01:19:25,066
used and to show that conlangs, just
like natural languages, can be analyzed.
309
01:19:25,100 --> 01:19:30,333
They can be discussed like any other
language patterns that you can discuss.
310
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,666
And so
311
01:19:32,966 --> 01:19:36,066
for me, I think anyone at the end of this
312
01:19:36,266 --> 01:19:40,899
would hopefully get an introduction to
linguistics if they had never heard any
313
01:19:40,899 --> 01:19:43,633
of these terms before, they
would hopefully have a better grasp.
314
01:19:43,866 --> 01:19:45,800
But my goal is not for you to then know
315
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:50,433
how to sit down with a data set from
natural languages and work it like you
316
01:19:50,433 --> 01:19:52,500
would from an intro
to linguistics textbook.
317
01:19:52,766 --> 01:19:54,666
My goal is for you to have seen some
318
01:19:54,666 --> 01:20:00,133
patterns that you can then take
and use creatively for your own work.
319
01:20:00,399 --> 01:20:06,466
It's really interesting to have
to have that now, because, like,
320
01:20:06,666 --> 01:20:12,899
most like conlanging courses have
been, OK, I'm going to give them a conlang
321
01:20:13,100 --> 01:20:17,266
assignment in order to teach
these things about linguistics.
322
01:20:17,566 --> 01:20:19,800
And then you're coming
at it from the other end.
323
01:20:20,100 --> 01:20:23,899
And I think I think as I have
324
01:20:24,166 --> 01:20:30,933
seen the community grow and I've grown
into it, like I think I think of conlanging
325
01:20:30,933 --> 01:20:38,000
more in artistic terms than I used to,
like a lot of us were just like focused
326
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:42,833
on making something that's naturalistic
and typologically plausible and stuff.
327
01:20:42,833 --> 01:20:44,233
Right? Before.
328
01:20:44,466 --> 01:20:48,100
And now I find myself, especially with my
329
01:20:48,100 --> 01:20:54,466
like Tongues and Runes stuff, like thinking
more about like themes and, you know...
330
01:20:55,199 --> 01:21:00,899
Artistic, you know, expression through
the language, and I don't know, I mean,
331
01:21:01,100 --> 01:21:05,733
obviously, you are going to be teaching
a lot of linguistic theory stuff, but I
332
01:21:05,733 --> 01:21:09,733
feel like having a
textbook to teach people
333
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:15,800
conlanging first and then
secondarily linguistics is like another
334
01:21:16,033 --> 01:21:19,800
like step in the
development of the art form.
335
01:21:20,033 --> 01:21:20,933
Right. Yeah.
336
01:21:20,933 --> 01:21:28,033
And it's also... the way I set up
the chapter exercises for each one.
337
01:21:28,266 --> 01:21:31,666
And this is where it's like, I think I can
safely say my goal was to teach you how
338
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:37,233
to create a language rather than really
focusing on the intro to linguistic side.
339
01:21:37,466 --> 01:21:39,199
Though, again, I'm going to argue that if
340
01:21:39,199 --> 01:21:42,733
you figure out how to create a language,
you've gotten some introduction to
341
01:21:42,833 --> 01:21:47,233
linguistics, like just from the process,
you you learn something from it.
342
01:21:47,466 --> 01:21:53,433
But the chapter exercises are set up where
at the end of once you get through the kind
343
01:21:53,466 --> 01:21:57,000
of introductory chapters where you're
not quite doing anything yet in terms of
344
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:00,266
creating things, you're just going
through here's terms you're going to hear.
345
01:22:00,300 --> 01:22:01,933
Here's what you need to know about them.
346
01:22:02,133 --> 01:22:04,800
Now that that's set, let's move on.
347
01:22:05,033 --> 01:22:10,000
Once you hit so like chapter
three and beyond, I set up
348
01:22:10,233 --> 01:22:15,000
the beginning exercises for each chapter
are in what I call Squirrelish throughout
349
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:20,199
the book, where it's sort of
a guided exercise of here.
350
01:22:20,199 --> 01:22:23,000
I'm going to give you language data
that you don't care about because this is
351
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:26,300
a language that's not from you.
This is I'm giving you parameters.
352
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:28,033
Do these things with it.
353
01:22:28,266 --> 01:22:30,066
What did you do with it? Discuss it.
354
01:22:30,133 --> 01:22:33,000
Figure out why you liked that
method best for this language.
355
01:22:33,199 --> 01:22:36,800
So it's like a way of playing with
language data that you're not super
356
01:22:36,966 --> 01:22:41,133
invested in, but playing with language
data where the goal is you're creating
357
01:22:41,133 --> 01:22:45,333
something from it, like you're deciding
what syllables should be allowed.
358
01:22:45,633 --> 01:22:47,733
If you do that, what stress
pattern are you going to use?
359
01:22:47,733 --> 01:22:51,699
And how do you apply stress
consistently across these units?
360
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,533
And so those are the beginning chapter
361
01:22:54,733 --> 01:22:59,666
exercises and then all the rest of the
chapter exercises after that are, "OK,
362
01:22:59,666 --> 01:23:02,899
let's talk about what you're doing in
your own language," with the goal of
363
01:23:03,066 --> 01:23:06,633
hopefully, if you work through it all,
actually documenting the language.
364
01:23:06,866 --> 01:23:11,833
And to that end, one of the resources that
goes with the textbook is a massive Google
365
01:23:11,966 --> 01:23:16,333
spreadsheet of language features
where it allows you to enter the features.
366
01:23:16,366 --> 01:23:21,133
But it also tells you precisely what section
of the textbook covers the information.
367
01:23:21,433 --> 01:23:26,899
So if you don't remember, you can go back
to the resource and see how it's described.
368
01:23:27,166 --> 01:23:31,633
Do you want me to and this
again, this is at your discretion, Jess.
369
01:23:31,866 --> 01:23:35,866
You want me to pull up an example to share?
370
01:23:36,133 --> 01:23:39,399
- An example...
- From the book?
371
01:23:39,466 --> 01:23:42,533
Yeah, I'm looking at the chapter
nine exercises right now.
372
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,600
Oh, yeah, go for it.
373
01:23:45,633 --> 01:23:47,699
- Is this from the one that says?
- If you're free to share that stuff...
374
01:23:47,699 --> 01:23:49,433
You can do that.
375
01:23:49,966 --> 01:23:50,966
What's that?
376
01:23:51,133 --> 01:23:54,233
If you're free to share
that stuff, you can do it.
377
01:23:54,466 --> 01:23:59,300
I think because I'm not sharing a PDF
with someone and it's going to clearly,
378
01:23:59,300 --> 01:24:02,899
if it's the one I'm thinking
of, say, proof across the page.
379
01:24:03,166 --> 01:24:04,666
Yeah, okay.
380
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:06,300
Do you do you see it?
381
01:24:06,566 --> 01:24:09,000
Yeah, yeah, we got it.
382
01:24:09,100 --> 01:24:11,100
- All right.
- Should be recorded, too.
383
01:24:11,100 --> 01:24:13,133
Yeah, so this is chapter nine.
384
01:24:13,133 --> 01:24:14,933
And I pulled up this first one because I
385
01:24:14,933 --> 01:24:18,300
think this is a really,
really wonderful example.
386
01:24:18,566 --> 01:24:24,300
When I taught the summer conlang
course at Berkeley in 2017,
387
01:24:24,833 --> 01:24:32,033
a lot of the actual homework assignments I
gave were essentially here are some pieces.
388
01:24:32,266 --> 01:24:39,000
How do you evolve certain
elements, number case, whatever?
389
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:43,333
And there wasn't necessarily a
right answer that I was looking for.
390
01:24:43,399 --> 01:24:47,933
I just gave him the tools and
said, what what do you got?
391
01:24:47,933 --> 01:24:49,533
What can you do with this?
392
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:51,066
Justify your answer.
393
01:24:51,300 --> 01:24:55,433
And that's essentially kind of what you
see with exercise nine point one here.
394
01:24:55,666 --> 01:24:57,800
I know I'm kind of pulling
this on you cold, Jess.
395
01:24:57,800 --> 01:24:59,833
I don't know if you
wanted to talk about it.
396
01:24:59,966 --> 01:25:05,966
And I will say, this particular exercise
does ask you about grammaticalization.
397
01:25:06,066 --> 01:25:14,500
But I do want to say that I split material
throughout the textbook in a way that
398
01:25:14,766 --> 01:25:19,100
what I call the advanced sections,
which are marked by icons,
399
01:25:19,133 --> 01:25:23,500
the advanced sections talk about evolving
the language so that if you're ready for
400
01:25:23,500 --> 01:25:28,100
that, you can go through that if you're
not ready or you're not interested in
401
01:25:28,100 --> 01:25:31,333
evolving your language or your teacher
doesn't make you evolve language.
402
01:25:31,333 --> 01:25:33,600
I should put it that way as well.
403
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:39,500
You can skip those sections
entirely and only do the other sections,
404
01:25:39,500 --> 01:25:41,033
which is the bulk of the textbook
405
01:25:41,133 --> 01:25:42,100
Oh, that's smart!
406
01:25:42,133 --> 01:25:45,600
and
create a typologically kind of consistent,
407
01:25:45,833 --> 01:25:49,233
you know, more naturalish
kind of shape of language.
408
01:25:49,233 --> 01:25:50,600
But that is not evolved.
409
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,866
And so it it kind of has this dual focus.
410
01:25:54,133 --> 01:25:59,133
But then in the exercises, just
to reinforce the don't be afraid
411
01:25:59,133 --> 01:26:02,233
of this evolution idea, just
think about, hey, what are
412
01:26:02,233 --> 01:26:05,500
some words that could lead
to grammatical inflections?
413
01:26:05,766 --> 01:26:07,300
And if you read through the instructions,
414
01:26:07,300 --> 01:26:09,933
you'll see that it's you're
not coming up with the forms.
415
01:26:09,933 --> 01:26:11,733
This is the squirrelish language.
416
01:26:11,933 --> 01:26:13,699
You're just saying, I don't know,
417
01:26:13,966 --> 01:26:18,133
what might a squirrel use to
mark a singular or a plural form?
418
01:26:18,133 --> 01:26:23,800
What word may end up becoming
grammaticalized if if we went down that path?
419
01:26:24,033 --> 01:26:27,800
And so it really is a let's brainstorm.
420
01:26:28,033 --> 01:26:30,033
Well, that's as
an added challenge,
421
01:26:30,033 --> 01:26:32,199
- David, that's for the challenge.
- Yeah, I know, I love it.
422
01:26:32,199 --> 01:26:35,266
But yeah, it's so David highlighted the as
423
01:26:35,266 --> 01:26:38,899
an added challenge, make sure none
of them are the ones listed in the chapter.
424
01:26:38,899 --> 01:26:40,533
So, for instance, I mentioned that like
425
01:26:40,733 --> 01:26:44,433
children can be grammaticalized to
make a plural form in many languages.
426
01:26:44,666 --> 01:26:47,533
So don't use that because
it's already been mentioned.
427
01:26:47,533 --> 01:26:52,866
Yeah, I definitely see like that.
428
01:26:53,133 --> 01:26:55,399
This is like.
429
01:26:55,633 --> 01:26:57,833
I don't I don't know, I don't want to say
430
01:26:58,133 --> 01:27:03,600
like like this is like along
the same lines as y'all's style
431
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:10,699
of conlanging in LangTime Studio,
where as far as I've seen of your streams,
432
01:27:10,699 --> 01:27:15,433
you tend to like go back and
try to find a lexical source for any
433
01:27:15,666 --> 01:27:19,066
any affix that you add,
which I don't always do.
434
01:27:19,133 --> 01:27:23,800
I do a lot of the time, but sometimes
I just like say, OK, whatever.
435
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:26,133
It was it was a case
affix all the way back.
436
01:27:27,033 --> 01:27:34,533
But but I see like that style from
you carrying into the textbook, too.
437
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:35,866
That's interesting.
438
01:27:36,100 --> 01:27:37,133
Yeah, and it does.
439
01:27:37,133 --> 01:27:40,800
And like I said, it carries
through in the advanced sections.
440
01:27:41,033 --> 01:27:45,633
Whereas if you skip those sections,
what you would be getting is you're going
441
01:27:45,733 --> 01:27:47,733
to create a form if you
want to mark the plural,
442
01:27:47,833 --> 01:27:50,266
great. Like think about if it comes after
443
01:27:50,366 --> 01:27:53,333
a consonant, is it going to look
different than if it comes after a vowel?
444
01:27:53,566 --> 01:27:55,300
Make sure you Mark that information.
445
01:27:55,500 --> 01:28:00,066
So it's one of those things where you
can you could definitely use the entirety
446
01:28:00,066 --> 01:28:04,300
of the material in the textbook and not
evolve a language because you skipped
447
01:28:04,366 --> 01:28:09,000
those, you know, the the
cogs, the advanced sections.
448
01:28:09,233 --> 01:28:10,833
You don't have to do it that way.
449
01:28:10,833 --> 01:28:15,233
And I try I hope I lay out, you
know, strategies for like, hey,
450
01:28:15,233 --> 01:28:17,233
if you're not evolving
this, just think about,
451
01:28:17,233 --> 01:28:19,433
you know, these things
as you create these forms.
452
01:28:19,433 --> 01:28:21,933
Think about the fact that
you're going to hear these a lot.
453
01:28:22,133 --> 01:28:25,466
Make sure there there's sounds that
you're happy with knowing that if it's
454
01:28:25,466 --> 01:28:30,233
a suffix, a lot of words are
going to end in that. Be ready.
455
01:28:30,333 --> 01:28:34,066
Well, I will say
456
01:28:34,300 --> 01:28:38,433
I've been in contact with
Cambridge University Press.
457
01:28:38,433 --> 01:28:44,000
I don't know if I should like
say this show, but I'm going to.
458
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:48,033
But I have been in contact and
I'm going to try to get a review copy.
459
01:28:48,266 --> 01:28:53,600
So, guys, watch this channel
because I may review this.
460
01:28:53,833 --> 01:28:57,233
And then there's there's another
textbook that I may review, too.
461
01:28:57,233 --> 01:28:58,633
So
462
01:28:58,966 --> 01:29:04,899
so you'll get a full review
from me, but it's looking good.
463
01:29:05,133 --> 01:29:06,733
It's looking interesting.
464
01:29:06,733 --> 01:29:07,699
Yes. Yeah.
465
01:29:07,699 --> 01:29:09,600
From from what I see now.
466
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:11,666
By the way, Jess you want me to just
467
01:29:11,666 --> 01:29:15,100
kind of give a peek at
the table of contents?
468
01:29:15,333 --> 01:29:20,633
Well, one thing is, as David had scrolled
down, you see that nine point one and nine
469
01:29:20,633 --> 01:29:25,466
point two, those exercises were
both on Squirrelish again to sort of like
470
01:29:25,466 --> 01:29:29,699
get people thinking, try this out,
try out some basic translations.
471
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:35,933
And then the next exercise after that
starts the entire focus on your own conlang.
472
01:29:35,933 --> 01:29:40,333
And so, you know, thinking about
how does your language do this?
473
01:29:40,333 --> 01:29:42,399
And, you know, gives you bullet points or
474
01:29:42,399 --> 01:29:45,600
gives you overall things like make
sure you consider these things.
475
01:29:45,833 --> 01:29:47,966
And of course, throughout,
there are definitely
476
01:29:47,966 --> 01:29:50,466
options to say, well, my
conlang doesn't mark this.
477
01:29:50,466 --> 01:29:53,733
And so in that case, then the goal
is to say, well, how will that affect
478
01:29:53,733 --> 01:29:58,600
ways I translate and ways I think about
this so that I remember that my language
479
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:02,133
doesn't mark this, because
that's definitely a valid option
480
01:30:02,233 --> 01:30:05,633
to, you know, for instance, not
mark number at all on nouns.
481
01:30:05,633 --> 01:30:06,300
That's great.
482
01:30:06,566 --> 01:30:09,433
You just need to remember
that that was your plan.
483
01:30:09,633 --> 01:30:13,433
Yeah, that's that's that's that's
a good thing to remind people of.
484
01:30:13,433 --> 01:30:17,666
I try to remind people like whenever I'm
485
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:22,000
covering stuff, whenever we're
covering like stuff here is like,
486
01:30:22,233 --> 01:30:26,600
yeah, we're going to we'll talk about,
you know, number case or whatever.
487
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:31,866
And I say, you know, and you
can't always just not, you know,
488
01:30:32,300 --> 01:30:37,899
last last month we had William
on talk about subordination.
489
01:30:37,899 --> 01:30:40,000
But one of the things that we said is like,
490
01:30:40,199 --> 01:30:44,533
yeah, we have all of these different
strategies, but you can't just stick a full
491
01:30:44,533 --> 01:30:48,300
sentence into a sentence
and be done with it and it's fine.
492
01:30:48,300 --> 01:30:53,899
You know, all of these things, all of
these it's all of these things are options.
493
01:30:53,899 --> 01:30:59,833
And you have to be aware of your
options to the extent that you can be aware
494
01:31:00,066 --> 01:31:03,100
and also understand that
you can just not use any of it.
495
01:31:03,100 --> 01:31:03,766
Right?
496
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:05,300
Right, right.
497
01:31:05,333 --> 01:31:06,466
Yep.
498
01:31:06,500 --> 01:31:08,433
But you just need to be
aware of the consequences.
499
01:31:08,433 --> 01:31:13,300
That's all. And sometimes, you
know, the consequences are pretty cool.
500
01:31:13,333 --> 01:31:16,433
You know, like, wow, I never thought of not
501
01:31:16,433 --> 01:31:20,933
doing this and what the result
would be, but I really like the result.
502
01:31:21,133 --> 01:31:24,633
You know, pays to give
everything a try at least once.
503
01:31:24,833 --> 01:31:26,266
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
504
01:31:26,533 --> 01:31:30,533
And then, David, yeah, you're free to-- if
you want to jump up to the table of contents
505
01:31:30,633 --> 01:31:34,500
- OK, so there's we'll get a little bit of a--
- It's quite lengthy, though.
506
01:31:34,699 --> 01:31:37,666
There's a there's the there's the short.
507
01:31:37,866 --> 01:31:39,866
This is the brief table of contents.
508
01:31:39,866 --> 01:31:41,899
This is just the overview.
509
01:31:42,100 --> 01:31:44,033
One of the things, by the way, I really,
510
01:31:44,033 --> 01:31:50,000
really love about this book is
Jessie devotes an entire chapter to
511
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:56,466
translation, which is something that I
don't think a lot of conlangers give a ton
512
01:31:56,633 --> 01:31:59,600
of thought to.
Certainly I didn't at the beginning.
513
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,100
You know, you're
creating a language, right?
514
01:32:02,366 --> 01:32:10,233
But often what you use it for is
translation and translation is itself
515
01:32:10,466 --> 01:32:14,666
an entire art, an entire art
that's separate from conlanging,
516
01:32:14,899 --> 01:32:18,300
that's separate from learning a
language and that's separate from writing.
517
01:32:18,566 --> 01:32:23,433
It's something that, you know, you
need to-- it pays to give some thought to.
518
01:32:23,633 --> 01:32:27,899
And so this is just, I think,
a lovely way to end the book
519
01:32:28,166 --> 01:32:32,699
and really kind of puts you in position,
like, say, you go through this from
520
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:38,100
beginning to end to participate
in something like a conlang relay.
521
01:32:38,366 --> 01:32:39,399
You know?
522
01:32:39,633 --> 01:32:41,033
Well, yeah,
523
01:32:41,266 --> 01:32:44,899
that's that's something I will
look forward to reading because,
524
01:32:45,166 --> 01:32:48,433
you know, I could I could use some more.
525
01:32:48,666 --> 01:32:52,066
Knowledge of translation stuff,
526
01:32:52,366 --> 01:32:56,233
it is, I always say, like.
527
01:32:56,666 --> 01:33:01,933
If you've done your job right, making
a conlang, translation should be hard.
528
01:33:02,100 --> 01:33:03,466
Right?
529
01:33:03,533 --> 01:33:07,533
So having a chapter about translation
530
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:11,399
sounds like a good idea
because it should be hard.
531
01:33:11,633 --> 01:33:15,733
So you got to tell people
how to do it because it is hard.
532
01:33:15,733 --> 01:33:17,066
Yeah, yeah.
533
01:33:17,133 --> 01:33:19,800
And it's it's so difficult, obviously,
534
01:33:20,033 --> 01:33:24,100
having one chapter where it's like
trying to walk through examples and really
535
01:33:24,300 --> 01:33:27,933
showing so much just has to
be glossed over and skipped.
536
01:33:27,933 --> 01:33:29,533
And so.
537
01:33:30,333 --> 01:33:33,266
I would urge anyone interested to,
538
01:33:33,533 --> 01:33:36,233
you know, read actual
entire books dedicated
539
01:33:36,233 --> 01:33:39,333
to the art of translation
because it truly is an art.
540
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:47,000
And so the one chapter just gives
an overview of things to think about.
541
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:50,100
Just trying to let students know that not
542
01:33:50,300 --> 01:33:54,833
everything should be a word for
word translation, but at the same time,
543
01:33:54,833 --> 01:33:58,033
there are definitely sentences that
are going to look like they were basically
544
01:33:58,233 --> 01:34:01,633
word for word because there are
languages that express the same
545
01:34:01,633 --> 01:34:04,633
basic idea with the same
basic kind of vocabulary.
546
01:34:04,633 --> 01:34:06,433
And that's OK.
547
01:34:06,633 --> 01:34:11,300
It's just, you know, really thinking about
areas to inject where it's like, well,
548
01:34:11,366 --> 01:34:14,733
we use this preposition in English,
but why what does it really mean?
549
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:16,699
How might another language look at that?
550
01:34:16,699 --> 01:34:19,466
And yeah, that is difficult.
551
01:34:19,699 --> 01:34:20,699
Yeah. Yeah.
552
01:34:20,699 --> 01:34:28,199
Anyway, I'm I'm just super, super excited
about this because I've read this book.
553
01:34:28,433 --> 01:34:29,300
I've said this before.
554
01:34:29,300 --> 01:34:31,000
I'm going to say it many times.
555
01:34:31,100 --> 01:34:36,066
Jessie is really, really,
really, really good at
556
01:34:36,366 --> 01:34:41,500
at academic writing in the
sense of trying to explain
557
01:34:41,500 --> 01:34:46,233
either an unfamiliar concept or
to explain how to do something.
558
01:34:47,399 --> 01:34:52,699
It's it's I wish I could bottle it and I
wish she could just write about anything
559
01:34:52,699 --> 01:34:58,733
that I happen to want to learn because
it is very straightforward, very intuitive,
560
01:34:58,933 --> 01:35:01,133
much more so than The
Art of Language Invention.
561
01:35:01,133 --> 01:35:05,733
Again, I stand by how entertaining
The Art of Language Invention is.
562
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:09,266
I have I have fun reading
through bits of that.
563
01:35:09,466 --> 01:35:15,000
But I think that this book is
much, much, much, much better.
564
01:35:15,233 --> 01:35:19,033
If your goal is to sit down and learn
something about language creation.
565
01:35:19,266 --> 01:35:20,466
Yeah, yeah.
566
01:35:20,466 --> 01:35:23,333
Well, well, we'll see.
567
01:35:23,633 --> 01:35:28,433
I will say, like, I feel the
limitations that you had
568
01:35:28,666 --> 01:35:33,600
when I look at the art of language
invention, because this book is small.
569
01:35:33,833 --> 01:35:35,500
This book is not big.
570
01:35:35,766 --> 01:35:38,600
Yeah, there's no way
you're going to fit all of it.
571
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:42,333
And so you just have like
a few case studies in there.
572
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:45,633
It looks like this textbook is going to be
573
01:35:45,633 --> 01:35:49,300
much more thorough and
have a lot more like meat to it,
574
01:35:49,500 --> 01:35:53,466
which I'm looking forward to
analyzing
575
01:35:53,500 --> 01:35:56,699
- Some other things to--
- What was your word count,
576
01:35:56,699 --> 01:35:59,500
David, what word count
were you allowed in your book?
577
01:35:59,766 --> 01:36:02,666
Oh, they wanted it to be
578
01:36:02,933 --> 01:36:07,433
ideally about under 70,000 words.
579
01:36:07,666 --> 01:36:09,600
And so that was what David was dealing
580
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:15,333
with in my book is
definitely in the 150,000.
581
01:36:15,333 --> 01:36:19,100
And so, yeah, you're
you're getting almost double.
582
01:36:19,100 --> 01:36:20,933
I think even after I trimmed it down,
583
01:36:20,933 --> 01:36:26,266
I feel like it still is in somewhere really
close to a hundred fifty thousand.
584
01:36:26,566 --> 01:36:32,066
Yeah, well, it's it's it's it's it's tough.
585
01:36:32,066 --> 01:36:34,500
I mean, especially
586
01:36:34,699 --> 01:36:38,000
when you're doing like traditional
publishers, you've got to go.
587
01:36:38,199 --> 01:36:39,733
That's what the publisher wants.
588
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:43,500
But then like you could do independent.
589
01:36:43,766 --> 01:36:48,500
And write exactly what you want,
but there's a trade off and you've got
590
01:36:48,500 --> 01:36:54,199
to do all the marketing yourself,
you don't have like an institution
591
01:36:54,199 --> 01:36:57,833
behind you to do all
the editing and polishing.
592
01:36:58,066 --> 01:37:01,199
So like you hire editors and stuff and
593
01:37:01,433 --> 01:37:06,433
that costs money and also might
not be as thorough as what they do.
594
01:37:06,666 --> 01:37:13,699
So it is it is very, very-- I'm
very interested to see this.
595
01:37:13,699 --> 01:37:17,833
But some other things I
kind of want to ask about.
596
01:37:18,066 --> 01:37:22,699
Yeah. So the game that you're developing
597
01:37:22,699 --> 01:37:28,066
languages for on LangTime Studio, I
have noticed that it has a name now.
598
01:37:28,066 --> 01:37:28,933
Sure does.
599
01:37:29,033 --> 01:37:30,199
Sovála
600
01:37:30,433 --> 01:37:33,600
Yeah. Which is that an Engála word?
601
01:37:33,833 --> 01:37:35,866
It is Engála. Engála
602
01:37:35,866 --> 01:37:37,466
Sovála.
603
01:37:37,466 --> 01:37:41,233
But, yeah, that's why that's why you have
604
01:37:41,466 --> 01:37:45,766
an acute accent on the middle
syllable to indicate stress and
605
01:37:45,766 --> 01:37:50,766
also why something that's
written in sounds like [æ].
606
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:51,366
Sovála, okay.
607
01:37:51,399 --> 01:37:53,266
That's funny. That's all right.
608
01:37:53,266 --> 01:37:56,866
But if people pronounce it Sov[ɑ]la, I
think that sounds cool anyway.
609
01:37:56,933 --> 01:37:58,600
So that's good.
610
01:37:59,033 --> 01:38:03,433
There has been a lot of movement
611
01:38:03,666 --> 01:38:08,500
on the game, especially
in the last two months
612
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:10,733
that started a bit ago.
613
01:38:10,899 --> 01:38:12,333
So
614
01:38:12,699 --> 01:38:16,166
what we call the like
Sovála version 2.0
615
01:38:16,399 --> 01:38:21,300
We playtested that a
few times, we playtested that at Kopikon
616
01:38:21,566 --> 01:38:25,199
and I identified some deficiencies.
617
01:38:25,300 --> 01:38:26,633
So there's always going to be issues
618
01:38:26,633 --> 01:38:29,466
with a game where it's like, oh,
you spend a lot of time doing this.
619
01:38:29,733 --> 01:38:32,466
And the question is, I mean,
it's not necessarily a bad thing.
620
01:38:32,666 --> 01:38:37,733
The question is, you as the designer,
did you want people spending time there?
621
01:38:38,033 --> 01:38:41,066
And in this case, the answer was no.
622
01:38:41,300 --> 01:38:45,433
So we we actually went to
England to a board game cafe,
623
01:38:45,666 --> 01:38:51,233
a very weird board game cafe
that was in a in a tunnel that
624
01:38:51,233 --> 01:38:57,199
has professional spray painters
and in there 24/7, very loud.
625
01:38:57,433 --> 01:39:02,633
And I was debuting the magic using classes.
626
01:39:02,933 --> 01:39:04,933
And basically it was like
627
01:39:05,300 --> 01:39:07,633
half the time was just spent people like
628
01:39:07,666 --> 01:39:11,699
reading these spells, figuring
them out or like, you know,
629
01:39:11,933 --> 01:39:14,266
the ones who were interested,
they were trying to figure
630
01:39:14,266 --> 01:39:17,733
out what are the best spells
and choose them with care.
631
01:39:17,733 --> 01:39:22,100
And they were spending like a half an hour
to forty five minutes just choosing spells.
632
01:39:22,366 --> 01:39:26,733
And then the other ones that didn't get
it were like, "OK, I'll just take these."
633
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:28,100
Didn't even read them.
634
01:39:28,366 --> 01:39:29,933
Hey, not just didn't get it,
635
01:39:29,933 --> 01:39:35,000
but the ones who had chosen non magic
users and so had no choice to make.
636
01:39:35,033 --> 01:39:35,666
That's true.
637
01:39:35,933 --> 01:39:38,333
Because I, of course,
in my my beloved mice
638
01:39:38,333 --> 01:39:41,333
and my tanks, like that's
what I lean toward.
639
01:39:41,333 --> 01:39:43,733
And so, yeah, there it was.
640
01:39:43,733 --> 01:39:46,833
It was down to like two people at the large
641
01:39:46,866 --> 01:39:50,600
table reading all the magic
spells while the rest of us waited.
642
01:39:50,833 --> 01:39:52,133
Yeah, so...
643
01:39:52,366 --> 01:39:57,866
Long story short, huge magic
overhaul... overhauled the system.
644
01:39:58,066 --> 01:40:03,866
It led to names that had to
change and then change back.
645
01:40:04,133 --> 01:40:06,633
It was it was a whole thing.
646
01:40:06,833 --> 01:40:10,833
But one of the things
that kind of gave me
647
01:40:10,933 --> 01:40:15,000
a kick in the butt is that for as a
Christmas present, the last Christmas
648
01:40:15,033 --> 01:40:19,933
present, Jessie found
a professional printing
649
01:40:20,199 --> 01:40:23,300
company that could actually like,
you know, print out some really,
650
01:40:23,300 --> 01:40:26,633
really good test copies of this game.
Right.
651
01:40:26,866 --> 01:40:29,399
And so then it was like, well,
652
01:40:29,633 --> 01:40:33,733
I need to get this thing to a place
that I'm happy with before we do this.
653
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:37,666
And so we're getting there now.
654
01:40:37,666 --> 01:40:39,399
And that's actually what I've been working
655
01:40:39,399 --> 01:40:45,466
on most heavily the past couple of
weeks, because the goal is for Sovála 3.0
656
01:40:45,500 --> 01:40:49,933
to be ready by the time that
we go to Kopikon in Edinburgh.
657
01:40:50,300 --> 01:40:53,133
So we're going to play that.
658
01:40:53,399 --> 01:40:58,699
And yeah, my hope is-- because I
wanted the magic system to be interesting
659
01:40:58,866 --> 01:41:01,733
and cool and for people to
spend a little bit of time with it,
660
01:41:01,833 --> 01:41:07,100
figuring it out, seeing what's best, but
not that much time, not that much time.
661
01:41:07,100 --> 01:41:08,233
Yeah.
662
01:41:08,466 --> 01:41:13,699
And so I hope that it's
been streamlined a little bit.
663
01:41:13,966 --> 01:41:16,666
It's the type of thing where, in theory,
664
01:41:16,866 --> 01:41:21,466
you love the idea of everybody being
able to make as many choices as possible
665
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:25,300
to perfectly craft exactly
what it is they want to do.
666
01:41:25,566 --> 01:41:27,733
But there's also a limited window.
667
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:29,466
And so sometimes you have to just take
668
01:41:29,500 --> 01:41:33,266
choices away or funnel
people into certain choices.
669
01:41:33,500 --> 01:41:37,000
And I think this does a better job of that.
670
01:41:37,233 --> 01:41:39,833
But yeah, it's going to.
671
01:41:40,066 --> 01:41:42,000
It's going to be done.
672
01:41:42,199 --> 01:41:46,466
It's going to be done, I would say,
at least a month, at least a month.
673
01:41:46,633 --> 01:41:49,899
And then we'll be
able to to get it printed.
674
01:41:50,166 --> 01:41:52,733
And it will be it will be the best version
675
01:41:52,733 --> 01:41:57,833
of it yet, both in terms of gameplay,
but also in terms of how it looks.
676
01:41:58,033 --> 01:42:00,433
Very, very excited about that.
677
01:42:00,433 --> 01:42:06,133
Incidentally, for a little backstory on
this and how it came to be named Sovála.
678
01:42:06,399 --> 01:42:09,466
Right. There is this there's this stuff.
679
01:42:09,666 --> 01:42:12,733
The ooze, whatever you wish,
680
01:42:12,899 --> 01:42:16,733
that it's it's actually called
681
01:42:17,033 --> 01:42:19,300
it's called something
different in every language.
682
01:42:19,566 --> 01:42:21,833
In English, one of the
translations is the blood water.
683
01:42:21,966 --> 01:42:25,600
They call it the blood water
because of how it looks in the water.
684
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:28,100
It's somehow mutated these animals
685
01:42:28,166 --> 01:42:35,933
after humans had been
wiped out and the small mammals became
686
01:42:36,133 --> 01:42:41,833
bipedal and other aspects of
their physiognomy changed.
687
01:42:42,033 --> 01:42:46,466
This is the part that's much less
science based and much more.
688
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:48,066
This is just what I want to happen.
689
01:42:48,066 --> 01:42:50,133
And so it's going to happen.
690
01:42:50,866 --> 01:42:57,800
The the various animal groups kind of kept
to themselves and then it led to fighting.
691
01:42:57,800 --> 01:42:59,666
These were called the First Wars.
692
01:42:59,866 --> 01:43:01,533
Then there was a period of peace after
693
01:43:01,533 --> 01:43:04,333
that when they realized, you know
what, what the heck are we doing this for?
694
01:43:04,333 --> 01:43:05,100
Right?
695
01:43:05,300 --> 01:43:09,433
And so there's this period of
peace that pervades for a while.
696
01:43:09,433 --> 01:43:17,033
And, you know, the blood water went
away, but then the blood water comes back.
697
01:43:17,300 --> 01:43:26,899
and it comes back specifically in a river
area right next to where the rabbits live.
698
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:34,033
It emerges in Lake Sovála.
699
01:43:34,233 --> 01:43:36,466
And Sovála is just the name of the lake.
700
01:43:36,666 --> 01:43:38,300
Anyway, it emerges there.
701
01:43:38,566 --> 01:43:40,100
And so suddenly it becomes a question,
702
01:43:40,100 --> 01:43:43,733
what the heck do we do about this? Because
we know what happened the first time.
703
01:43:43,966 --> 01:43:48,533
And essentially the various little
animal kingdoms all have very,
704
01:43:48,533 --> 01:43:52,633
very different opinions about what
exactly should be done about it.
705
01:43:52,866 --> 01:43:56,433
And so this leads to the second war
706
01:43:56,666 --> 01:44:00,699
of the animals as they're trying
to figure out what to do about it.
707
01:44:00,966 --> 01:44:03,300
And the poor rabbits, honestly,
708
01:44:03,500 --> 01:44:05,633
they just they don't want
to do anything with it.
709
01:44:05,866 --> 01:44:09,866
But they're stuck in the middle of
it because it's right where they live.
710
01:44:10,133 --> 01:44:12,500
And so they're just kind of stuck.
711
01:44:12,766 --> 01:44:18,100
And so that is essentially where
the board game Sovála takes place.
712
01:44:18,100 --> 01:44:21,899
And Sovála actually comes
from Heart Lake, right?
713
01:44:21,933 --> 01:44:25,633
Because it's the shape of the lake
actually looks like a heart from the air.
714
01:44:25,866 --> 01:44:27,633
Yeah. And this is a real lake, by the way,
715
01:44:27,866 --> 01:44:35,866
because this takes place in Ontario,
just kind of like north-ish of Toronto.
716
01:44:35,866 --> 01:44:38,300
And so we actually have
the area mapped out.
717
01:44:38,300 --> 01:44:41,266
And so I can't even remember
what the I think it's called.
718
01:44:41,466 --> 01:44:45,199
Is it Emily Lake or
something like that in Toronto?
719
01:44:45,199 --> 01:44:46,733
It was something quite lovely.
720
01:44:46,733 --> 01:44:48,433
I remember that.
721
01:44:48,433 --> 01:44:51,399
It was nice anyway.
722
01:44:51,699 --> 01:44:52,733
So, yeah, that's where it is.
723
01:44:52,733 --> 01:44:57,000
And incidentally, there is going
to be I haven't gotten to this yet,
724
01:44:57,199 --> 01:45:00,100
but I'm very excited about it and
I think it it could work very well.
725
01:45:00,100 --> 01:45:02,300
There is going to be a cooperative version
726
01:45:02,300 --> 01:45:07,533
of this game that's kind of like
more of a role playing game,
727
01:45:07,533 --> 01:45:12,699
more of a hero quest or Gloomhaven
style game that has kind of like different
728
01:45:12,699 --> 01:45:16,233
levels where you start as some
of the one player characters
729
01:45:16,466 --> 01:45:21,899
and go through different scenarios
and then at the end of it, you know,
730
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:25,033
you're successful and then
you're you guys actually level up.
731
01:45:25,066 --> 01:45:27,233
So you keep the same ones,
but they get new abilities.
732
01:45:27,466 --> 01:45:28,733
It's nice.
733
01:45:28,899 --> 01:45:30,500
But yeah, at the end of it, essentially,
734
01:45:30,666 --> 01:45:35,133
it kind of falls to you what
to do with the blood water.
735
01:45:35,399 --> 01:45:40,933
And essentially what is going to
happen is that at the end of this game,
736
01:45:41,133 --> 01:45:45,000
it's going to kind of get out in
a way that wasn't anticipated.
737
01:45:45,199 --> 01:45:50,533
And it's going to engender a reaction
that was not expected amongst the insects,
738
01:45:50,733 --> 01:45:54,633
which are going to get
very large and very angry.
739
01:45:54,866 --> 01:45:57,033
And that, of course, is going to be the end
740
01:45:57,233 --> 01:46:00,266
of the second war as the
animals realize, you know what?
741
01:46:00,500 --> 01:46:03,033
We definitely should
not be fighting each other.
742
01:46:03,233 --> 01:46:05,600
Now we're fighting for our lives.
743
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:08,066
Oh, OK.
744
01:46:08,066 --> 01:46:09,633
Wow.
745
01:46:09,833 --> 01:46:14,333
Yeah, work has been
happening, work has been happening.
746
01:46:14,399 --> 01:46:17,933
OK, I just want to know when I can have
747
01:46:17,933 --> 01:46:23,266
a copy of Sovála to play with
Maria, I think she's probably
748
01:46:23,466 --> 01:46:26,800
old enough that she
might be able to to to play it.
749
01:46:27,033 --> 01:46:34,033
Fifi will be will be a bit distracted and
Dorothy will throw the pieces on the floor.
750
01:46:34,266 --> 01:46:36,866
But Maria might enjoy it.
751
01:46:37,166 --> 01:46:40,199
So I will be able to answer that question
752
01:46:40,199 --> 01:46:44,266
for you depending on how
successful the test this fall goes.
753
01:46:44,266 --> 01:46:45,933
Yeah.
754
01:46:46,433 --> 01:46:51,633
And it'll be nice because we'll have
some people who've played it before.
755
01:46:51,833 --> 01:46:56,066
So they'll be able to
give direct comparisons.
756
01:46:56,366 --> 01:46:57,366
All right.
757
01:46:57,433 --> 01:47:02,533
And another thing, too, so.
758
01:47:02,800 --> 01:47:09,699
When we were getting ready for this,
you guys were at David, you asked me like
759
01:47:09,966 --> 01:47:13,366
if this would come
out after a certain time
760
01:47:13,366 --> 01:47:17,000
because you wanted to
mention a movie project.
761
01:47:17,233 --> 01:47:18,233
Yeah, it's true.
762
01:47:18,500 --> 01:47:22,233
So as long as this
comes out after July 11th.
763
01:47:22,433 --> 01:47:23,433
It should.
764
01:47:23,666 --> 01:47:26,733
OK, it should or it will
765
01:47:26,933 --> 01:47:29,699
it will be after July 11th.
766
01:47:29,699 --> 01:47:32,833
I don't have time to edit it before then.
767
01:47:33,033 --> 01:47:34,600
OK, good.
768
01:47:34,633 --> 01:47:38,399
All right, well, then the reason
that July 11th is important is
769
01:47:38,399 --> 01:47:45,066
July 11th is when Superman comes
out and that is our latest project,
770
01:47:45,266 --> 01:47:53,033
the new Superman reboot
and things to follow.
771
01:47:53,033 --> 01:47:57,333
But yeah, the first the first
one, though, is is Superman.
772
01:47:57,466 --> 01:47:59,000
It came out July 11th.
773
01:47:59,199 --> 01:48:03,500
I tell you that as if that
date was in the past.
774
01:48:03,766 --> 01:48:08,933
And it features our new take
on the Kryptonian language.
775
01:48:09,199 --> 01:48:11,600
Oh, OK.
776
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:17,699
Now, long time listeners may
know that there is another conlanger.
777
01:48:17,699 --> 01:48:21,233
Christine, I hope that I'm
getting her name right.
778
01:48:21,266 --> 01:48:25,466
- Christine Schreyer, who
- That's how I say it.
779
01:48:25,466 --> 01:48:28,933
So if you have it wrong, I do, too.
780
01:48:29,433 --> 01:48:33,800
I've gotten
her name wrong before.
781
01:48:34,033 --> 01:48:39,033
I've I've I've said like Schleyer
before, and I think that's somebody else.
782
01:48:39,233 --> 01:48:44,199
And but she made it for Man of Steel.
783
01:48:44,233 --> 01:48:45,933
She made a version of Kryptonian.
784
01:48:46,199 --> 01:48:49,533
So you guys have made a
different version of Kryptonian.
785
01:48:49,533 --> 01:48:55,466
Is it does it take anything from that that
version or is it a completely new thing?
786
01:48:55,733 --> 01:48:58,266
Yeah, this is a completely new thing.
787
01:48:58,266 --> 01:49:04,800
And I'll tell you at the very outset, when
we were first emailed about this project,
788
01:49:05,100 --> 01:49:11,266
I said, you know, that Christine
Schreyer created a Kryptonian language
789
01:49:11,566 --> 01:49:14,633
for the Man of Steel movie.
790
01:49:14,866 --> 01:49:17,466
Are you sure you didn't want to use that?
791
01:49:17,466 --> 01:49:20,300
And the answer was, no,
they wanted a new take.
792
01:49:20,300 --> 01:49:24,800
And of course, it always has to
do with studios and blah, blah, blah.
793
01:49:25,100 --> 01:49:26,399
But
794
01:49:26,633 --> 01:49:31,733
it kind of honestly, it kind of seems like
that maybe that is either the era we're
795
01:49:31,933 --> 01:49:37,466
in or the era we're approaching where
everything is either a sequel or a reboot.
796
01:49:37,466 --> 01:49:42,666
And if it's a reboot, you know, they want
to put their own stamp on the franchise,
797
01:49:42,866 --> 01:49:44,466
which, you know, who knows?
798
01:49:44,500 --> 01:49:46,500
For for people who are out there saying,
799
01:49:46,500 --> 01:49:49,466
"Man, I really could have
done a better job at Dothraki."
800
01:49:49,733 --> 01:49:50,733
Who knows?
801
01:49:50,833 --> 01:49:54,733
Maybe 10 years from now will be
another Game of Thrones reboot.
802
01:49:54,733 --> 01:49:55,733
And they'll be like, you know what?
803
01:49:55,733 --> 01:49:58,666
We want to put our own
spin on this franchise.
804
01:49:58,733 --> 01:50:00,600
So we need a new Dothraki language.
805
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:03,699
Who knows? You know, there there may be
806
01:50:03,699 --> 01:50:08,333
opportunities in the future and and
really we just have to be at peace
807
01:50:08,333 --> 01:50:12,899
with it, because like as I
see it, there's really four.
808
01:50:12,899 --> 01:50:17,266
Well, now with ours, there's
four Kryptonian languages
809
01:50:17,500 --> 01:50:18,733
starting at the beginning.
810
01:50:18,733 --> 01:50:23,600
There was what was in the
comic books and that, of course,
811
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:28,399
I mean, anybody who's read any
comic books from the 50s, 60s and so on
812
01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:32,333
and knows anything about conlanging, I mean,
you can guess you can guess what that was like
813
01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:37,699
Probably lots of apostrophes
and like it's just gibberish.
814
01:50:37,866 --> 01:50:39,300
There's nothing to it.
815
01:50:39,300 --> 01:50:40,133
- Right?
- Yeah.
816
01:50:40,333 --> 01:50:42,333
And not only that,
817
01:50:42,566 --> 01:50:48,466
it was, you know, "made," quote unquote,
by tons of different writers at different
818
01:50:48,466 --> 01:50:54,266
times, each of them adding new
words, changing the meanings of words,
819
01:50:54,466 --> 01:50:58,533
adding, you know, a
writing system and so on.
820
01:50:58,766 --> 01:51:02,100
It's it's just it's a
jumbled mess, you know?
821
01:51:02,366 --> 01:51:07,899
And the only person, you
know, who actually tried to
822
01:51:08,066 --> 01:51:13,399
make sense of that
was, oh, my God,
823
01:51:13,533 --> 01:51:16,000
help me, help me, help me, Darren?
824
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:23,899
I am so embarrassed about
this, I just had his name.
825
01:51:25,266 --> 01:51:30,266
But there's a fellow
on the Internet who basically
826
01:51:30,566 --> 01:51:37,633
created everything... or took down
everything about the language.
827
01:51:39,733 --> 01:51:45,833
There we go, Darren Doyle, I'm so
sorry, Darren, we've corresponded before
828
01:51:46,066 --> 01:51:50,633
and I apologize, I may have
slipped my mind for the moment.
829
01:51:50,833 --> 01:51:52,466
Darren Doyle,
830
01:51:52,733 --> 01:51:56,300
he cataloged everything that
was in all the comic books.
831
01:51:56,566 --> 01:52:00,033
And essentially, he created a
version of the Kryptonian language.
832
01:52:00,033 --> 01:52:01,466
It was just on the Internet.
833
01:52:01,666 --> 01:52:05,300
Basically, it was a fanlang.
He was a really big fan,
834
01:52:05,566 --> 01:52:07,233
and
835
01:52:07,466 --> 01:52:11,833
kept as much as he could, innovated a lot,
836
01:52:12,066 --> 01:52:14,500
created a lot of material.
837
01:52:14,766 --> 01:52:20,699
And there was a television
show, Supergirl, you know,
838
01:52:21,766 --> 01:52:23,399
and they--
839
01:52:23,399 --> 01:52:24,466
I've seen that one.
840
01:52:24,733 --> 01:52:25,899
Yeah, they did.
841
01:52:26,166 --> 01:52:30,633
I'll say they did some disappointing
stuff when it came to conlanging.
842
01:52:30,833 --> 01:52:36,000
But like I knew one of the writers there
because she was a writer on something else.
843
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:38,866
She once suggested to
them, "Why don't you hire David?
844
01:52:38,866 --> 01:52:40,699
He created a language
for us for this other thing."
845
01:52:40,699 --> 01:52:44,699
And they're like, "Nah, we'll just mess
up some stuff on Google Translate.
846
01:52:44,699 --> 01:52:47,433
It'll be fine." That's what they did.
847
01:52:47,433 --> 01:52:49,800
I never
848
01:52:50,033 --> 01:52:52,699
I don't think I got any
episodes with Kryptonian in it.
849
01:52:52,766 --> 01:52:55,333
Martian, it was Martian.
850
01:52:55,500 --> 01:52:56,733
Oh, it was Martian.
851
01:52:56,733 --> 01:52:59,300
Oh, because J'onn J'onzz is in it.
852
01:52:59,366 --> 01:52:59,766
Yeah.
853
01:52:59,800 --> 01:53:00,866
Yeah.
854
01:53:00,866 --> 01:53:04,833
But at a certain point, they
wanted to use Kryptonian.
855
01:53:05,133 --> 01:53:08,699
And I don't know who made
the initial point of contact.
856
01:53:08,966 --> 01:53:13,699
But somehow it came to to Darren.
857
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:16,133
And, you know, I spoke out in his favor.
858
01:53:16,333 --> 01:53:20,466
I said, "Look, this guy's been
working with Kryptonian for years.
859
01:53:20,633 --> 01:53:22,500
He would love the opportunity to do this."
860
01:53:22,766 --> 01:53:24,866
And so he actually got to do some
861
01:53:25,066 --> 01:53:28,699
Kryptonian translation
for Supergirl, the show.
862
01:53:28,699 --> 01:53:31,500
And so I thought that was wonderful.
863
01:53:31,699 --> 01:53:36,933
Anyway, that was I think that
was actually after Man of Steel,
864
01:53:37,433 --> 01:53:44,033
where, of course, Christine Schreyer
created the Kryptonian language,
865
01:53:44,266 --> 01:53:48,600
which got cut from the first one,
right, like it's the the visuals are there.
866
01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:50,266
There's writing, there's writing.
867
01:53:50,333 --> 01:53:56,333
And I think she I think that was a
case where she did do the writing.
868
01:53:56,533 --> 01:54:00,066
I mean, she did translation for it.
869
01:54:00,066 --> 01:54:01,466
I know she did. Yeah.
870
01:54:01,500 --> 01:54:05,333
Yeah. Like because I know I know you've had
871
01:54:05,333 --> 01:54:09,433
several projects where, like, they
didn't let you do a writing system.
872
01:54:09,433 --> 01:54:12,399
They had art department do it or they
wouldn't take the one that you made.
873
01:54:12,466 --> 01:54:15,633
But I think she actually did the glyphs.
874
01:54:15,633 --> 01:54:20,066
There was the one like the big
S is actually a Kryptonian glyph.
875
01:54:20,066 --> 01:54:24,033
So that was like, set, but
otherwise she made some other things.
876
01:54:24,333 --> 01:54:28,300
She collaborated with the with
an artist there in the art department.
877
01:54:28,466 --> 01:54:29,833
So.
878
01:54:30,533 --> 01:54:33,699
it wasn't it wasn't free of
production interference.
879
01:54:33,733 --> 01:54:35,199
But, you know,
880
01:54:35,633 --> 01:54:37,433
she at least had input on that.
881
01:54:37,466 --> 01:54:39,833
Unlike, for example,
882
01:54:40,033 --> 01:54:46,300
Marc Okrand had no input whatsoever
on the writing system for Atlantean,
883
01:54:46,966 --> 01:54:51,666
which which was a shame because there were
definitely things he could have told them.
884
01:54:51,666 --> 01:54:52,666
That's right.
885
01:54:52,933 --> 01:54:53,733
That's a thing.
886
01:54:53,733 --> 01:54:59,699
That's a thing that that like the people
hiring conlangers needed to get is like.
887
01:54:59,899 --> 01:55:04,033
You can have art
department involved, right?
888
01:55:04,033 --> 01:55:06,800
They might I mean, a lot of artists might
889
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:12,233
actually like the opportunity to to
do like the visual styling and like work
890
01:55:12,233 --> 01:55:14,800
with different writing implements
and see what they can do with that.
891
01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:21,266
But like you need the conlanger
involved to help design the system.
892
01:55:21,500 --> 01:55:25,699
Because it's going to fall out of the
phonology and morphology of the language
893
01:55:25,966 --> 01:55:32,066
in a way, and it has to make sense rather
than just like having art department do
894
01:55:32,100 --> 01:55:37,199
an alphabet cipher, which makes
no sense in universe at all.
895
01:55:37,199 --> 01:55:39,100
Yeah, but
896
01:55:39,366 --> 01:55:41,399
but anyway, that's exciting.
897
01:55:41,399 --> 01:55:47,000
So a new Kryptonian,
I feel that I feel that
898
01:55:47,300 --> 01:55:51,600
with Superman, that that's that's
the thing that you're going to get,
899
01:55:51,933 --> 01:55:57,199
because like you said, there's the history
of multiple different versions already.
900
01:55:57,500 --> 01:56:00,399
Whereas something like Dothraki,
901
01:56:00,699 --> 01:56:04,633
I mean, it wasn't in the books,
but it's pretty well established
902
01:56:04,966 --> 01:56:11,133
from the get go in the in in the
shows that this is what Dothraki is.
903
01:56:11,133 --> 01:56:14,833
Klingon was established
904
01:56:15,133 --> 01:56:17,666
decades ago as this is what Klingon is.
905
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:22,433
And the quality of the Klingon
in all of the shows is not great.
906
01:56:22,666 --> 01:56:26,033
But there's enough of a community
907
01:56:26,300 --> 01:56:32,066
behind it and enough like knowledge of it
that I don't think they would hire anybody
908
01:56:32,066 --> 01:56:38,866
to redo Klingon. If anything, like if if
you if you talk about like Klingon and Na'vi,
909
01:56:39,133 --> 01:56:43,899
it's like Marc Okrand and Paul Frommer
are going to pass the torch to other people
910
01:56:43,899 --> 01:56:49,100
who've been studying it rather than
have somebody hired to redo it.
911
01:56:49,366 --> 01:56:50,666
Right?
912
01:56:51,366 --> 01:56:53,266
Yeah, yeah, you're probably right.
913
01:56:53,466 --> 01:56:56,199
I guess it remains to be seen.
914
01:56:56,333 --> 01:56:58,833
Yeah, bu-
915
01:56:58,866 --> 01:57:00,733
It remains to be
seen like kind of like what happens
916
01:57:00,766 --> 01:57:04,600
with the whole, you know,
Song of Ice and Fire franchise.
917
01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:12,600
One thing I would
like to see happen is if the current MCU
918
01:57:12,666 --> 01:57:18,600
fades out of favor and then they reboot it
and restart it when they get to Wakanda,
919
01:57:18,833 --> 01:57:25,000
somebody needs to have the forethought to
actually go and make a conlang for Wakanda,
920
01:57:25,233 --> 01:57:31,899
because like I have said, it was
really good that the actors involved
921
01:57:32,100 --> 01:57:34,699
saw that and saw like, "Why
are we speaking English?
922
01:57:34,699 --> 01:57:38,033
Let's let's just let's pick an
African language we know."
923
01:57:38,033 --> 01:57:40,300
And they went with Xhosa.
924
01:57:41,399 --> 01:57:43,199
That's good.
925
01:57:43,433 --> 01:57:48,066
I still think it would have
been better to have someone
926
01:57:48,300 --> 01:57:53,133
who has knowledge of African languages,
you could have something from an African
927
01:57:53,133 --> 01:57:58,033
family because like there's going to be
things in like like Xhosa is going to have
928
01:57:58,333 --> 01:58:01,633
English loan words that
Wakanda would not have because
929
01:58:01,633 --> 01:58:04,566
they've been isolated for
thousands of years. Yeah.
930
01:58:04,633 --> 01:58:05,266
Yeah.
931
01:58:05,300 --> 01:58:06,699
So.
932
01:58:07,066 --> 01:58:09,233
You know, maybe like
933
01:58:09,266 --> 01:58:12,233
- put that idea out there.
- It's also like a thousand miles away.
934
01:58:13,800 --> 01:58:22,333
Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't, also, Xhosa was chosen
for like convenience because they happen to speak it.
935
01:58:22,366 --> 01:58:28,966
And then they, they took a
writing system from the other side of
936
01:58:28,966 --> 01:58:33,533
the continent to, to use. And it's like,
937
01:58:33,533 --> 01:58:38,300
okay, I mean, it kind of fits with other
world building that they were doing with
938
01:58:38,300 --> 01:58:42,699
like grabbing things from
various African cultures, but
939
01:58:42,733 --> 01:58:46,500
but maybe it would
have had more cohesion if
940
01:58:46,500 --> 01:58:50,699
somebody like actually thought
to make something beforehand.
941
01:58:51,566 --> 01:58:52,133
Yeah.
942
01:58:52,433 --> 01:58:55,399
Nice thing is that here we
got to create the language.
943
01:58:55,399 --> 01:58:56,766
We created the writing system.
944
01:58:57,366 --> 01:59:02,233
Um, it's going to show up in,
um, minor in terms of screen
945
01:59:02,233 --> 01:59:06,166
time, a minor way in the
film, but a very important way.
946
01:59:06,866 --> 01:59:09,600
So, um, so that'll be nice.
947
01:59:09,666 --> 01:59:16,066
And then, um, and then, yeah,
we did, uh, well, I think for right
948
01:59:16,066 --> 01:59:21,600
now, let me say is we did a lot
of work in a related future project.
949
01:59:23,066 --> 01:59:23,600
Okay.
950
01:59:24,500 --> 01:59:25,766
Uh, okay.
951
01:59:26,300 --> 01:59:29,600
Hopefully you have not
said too much there, but, uh,
952
01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:33,300
there's, there's, uh, some
things to, uh, look forward to.
953
01:59:33,766 --> 01:59:40,133
Uh, I am now more interested in seeing, uh,
man, and, uh, is it just called Superman?
954
01:59:40,666 --> 01:59:42,233
Yeah, it's just called Superman.
955
01:59:42,300 --> 01:59:43,199
Yeah.
956
01:59:43,300 --> 01:59:45,899
So I'm more interested
in seeing that movie now.
957
01:59:46,433 --> 01:59:50,233
Cause I mean, I've seen
previews, it looks good,
958
01:59:50,233 --> 01:59:54,966
but it's like, okay, it's another
Superman movie, but
959
01:59:54,966 --> 02:00:00,133
now, it's another movie
that I can tell my daughters,
960
02:00:00,166 --> 02:00:04,133
Hey, I know the people who
made it, made the language.
961
02:00:04,633 --> 02:00:10,100
And I have said that several times and
like, almost always it has been you guys.
962
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:14,433
[laughing]
963
02:00:15,533 --> 02:00:20,866
I think, I think my daughter is, is
finally starting to get it a little bit.
964
02:00:21,166 --> 02:00:26,666
Um, you know, that we, that
we work on stuff, um, like she can
965
02:00:26,699 --> 02:00:32,833
identify stuff and, uh, I, I still
don't think that she really knows.
966
02:00:33,266 --> 02:00:37,333
At all, like what
language creation is about.
967
02:00:37,333 --> 02:00:38,266
Um, but that's fine.
968
02:00:38,300 --> 02:00:40,500
We got plenty of other things to do.
969
02:00:40,666 --> 02:00:41,199
Yeah.
970
02:00:41,233 --> 02:00:45,100
I mean, you know, it, it, it takes a while.
971
02:00:45,166 --> 02:00:49,699
Uh, Maria has, uh, off
and on, like had me try --
972
02:00:49,733 --> 02:00:54,066
I, I've had, like, tried to help her and
like make a language, but you know,
973
02:00:54,066 --> 02:01:02,600
she's nine, so it's not, you know,
there's, there's what I can convey to her.
974
02:01:02,600 --> 02:01:08,333
That she'll understand, but like, you
know, yeah, I've, I've shown them...
975
02:01:08,333 --> 02:01:13,199
They love Elemental, so I've shown them
the stuff that's online of, of Ts'its'ash.
976
02:01:13,233 --> 02:01:14,233
Right?
977
02:01:14,300 --> 02:01:24,633
Um, which is very, very nice choices
to evoke the sound of fire in that
978
02:01:24,666 --> 02:01:29,000
with, um, adjectives and, and
syllabic fricatives, but--
979
02:01:29,033 --> 02:01:29,933
Oh, thank you.
980
02:01:30,033 --> 02:01:32,199
It was hard.
981
02:01:36,266 --> 02:01:37,800
It was hard?
982
02:01:37,833 --> 02:01:44,833
Especially initially there, you know, uh,
the initial ideas were literally to take,
983
02:01:44,833 --> 02:01:52,433
um, recordings of fire and kind of manipulate
them in such a way to try to produce a language.
984
02:01:52,466 --> 02:01:54,800
That sounds like a Logan Kearsley project.
985
02:01:55,366 --> 02:01:58,500
{Laughing}
986
02:02:01,399 --> 02:02:03,300
Oh my goodness!
987
02:02:03,333 --> 02:02:08,466
Uh, people, people
who, who, who know the podcast will
988
02:02:08,466 --> 02:02:14,100
know that who, who, who, who have
watched, uh, Tongues and Runes stuff too.
989
02:02:14,133 --> 02:02:22,600
Um, but, uh, anyway, I think
that's, well, that's all interesting stuff.
990
02:02:22,633 --> 02:02:28,500
We've, we've done a wide range of,
uh, of things, but I think, um, well, as
991
02:02:28,500 --> 02:02:33,366
we're, this should come out during
like the theatrical run of the Superman.
992
02:02:33,399 --> 02:02:35,233
So that's, that's something to check out.
993
02:02:35,433 --> 02:02:41,433
Also, there'll be a link to the Kopikon
registration. Go and check that out.
994
02:02:41,500 --> 02:02:43,466
And, um,
995
02:02:43,500 --> 02:02:47,866
And you know what, I'll also get
you a link for pre-orders of Jessie's book.
996
02:02:48,100 --> 02:02:53,533
Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I can, I can, I
can put that in there, uh, from, from
997
02:02:53,566 --> 02:03:00,699
Cambridge University Press, just like the
direct link, and it's a textbook.
998
02:03:00,733 --> 02:03:07,899
So it's kind of expensive,
but you know, that it's
999
02:03:07,899 --> 02:03:11,199
probably going to be a
really cool thing to have.
1000
02:03:11,233 --> 02:03:18,966
And if you are a professor who is
aiming to teach a conlang class or has,
1001
02:03:18,966 --> 02:03:22,300
has taught a conlang class
and might do it in the future,
1002
02:03:22,300 --> 02:03:30,199
you know, you might want to, you know, contact them for
your, like, uh, I guess professors can get review copies
1003
02:03:30,199 --> 02:03:34,033
so that they can decide whether they're
going to require it for the class and stuff.
1004
02:03:34,066 --> 02:03:34,800
Right?
1005
02:03:34,866 --> 02:03:35,866
Yeah.
1006
02:03:35,933 --> 02:03:38,233
Yeah. So, yeah.
1007
02:03:38,333 --> 02:03:42,233
Um, but individuals
can buy those books too.
1008
02:03:42,300 --> 02:03:47,699
Uh, I'm sure that the con, the, the
lending library is going to get a copy too.
1009
02:03:47,833 --> 02:03:52,566
So, uh, that, that will be, yeah,
the LCS lending, lending library.
1010
02:03:52,699 --> 02:03:59,466
But anyway, um, thank
you guys for being on and,
1011
02:03:59,500 --> 02:04:03,133
uh, lots of exciting
stuff to cover on that.
1012
02:04:05,833 --> 02:04:12,466
Well, we will see
you, uh, we'll see you on the stream
1013
02:04:12,466 --> 02:04:19,199
at Kopikon or for people going
there, we'll see you guys in person.
1014
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:25,366
And also, you know, every
week on LangTime Studio,
1015
02:04:25,399 --> 02:04:27,600
you can tell people that.
1016
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:28,600
Oh, yeah, that's true.
1017
02:04:28,666 --> 02:04:30,633
Thursdays at 2:00 PM LangTime Studio.
1018
02:04:30,633 --> 02:04:31,699
We're still going at it.
1019
02:04:31,833 --> 02:04:33,433
Still doing the fox language right now.
1020
02:04:33,500 --> 02:04:36,833
2:00 PM Pacific time.
1021
02:04:36,833 --> 02:04:38,233
2:00 PM Pacific time.
1022
02:04:38,300 --> 02:04:40,100
The only time that exists in David's head.
1023
02:04:44,766 --> 02:04:47,833
There was a, there was a show called 90210.
1024
02:04:47,833 --> 02:04:50,399
I don't recall a show
about any of your zip codes.
1025
02:04:52,500 --> 02:04:53,733
You know what, David?
1026
02:04:56,066 --> 02:04:58,000
You don't even live in 90210.
1027
02:04:58,000 --> 02:04:59,366
Like, what are you talking about?
1028
02:05:01,100 --> 02:05:01,633
All right.
1029
02:05:01,633 --> 02:05:07,199
But anyway, uh, thank you
guys for being on once again.
1030
02:05:07,266 --> 02:05:12,899
And thank all of you out there
for watching and happy conlanging.
1031
02:05:14,166 --> 02:05:16,266
Thank you for listening to Conlangery.
1032
02:05:16,300 --> 02:05:19,600
You can find archives and show notes at conlangery.com.
1033
02:05:19,666 --> 02:05:24,333
And if you'd like to support the show, the
best way to do that is to go to our Patreon
1034
02:05:24,433 --> 02:05:27,033
at patreon.com/conlangery.
1035
02:05:27,100 --> 02:05:32,866
With just $1, you can get access to exclusive
polls for my Tongues and Runes series.
1036
02:05:32,966 --> 02:05:40,600
And also, for $5, you can get every
podcast episode early and ad-free.
1037
02:05:40,633 --> 02:05:43,133
And now to thank our patrons.
1038
02:05:43,133 --> 02:05:44,733
Jesse
1039
02:05:44,733 --> 02:05:47,100
Alex Rossell Hayes
1040
02:05:47,100 --> 02:05:49,300
Alexis Hugelmann
1041
02:05:49,300 --> 02:05:50,766
Mintaka
1042
02:05:50,766 --> 02:05:52,666
Kenan Kigunda
1043
02:05:52,666 --> 02:05:54,833
Kaye
1044
02:05:54,833 --> 02:05:57,000
Grammar Antifa
1045
02:05:57,000 --> 02:05:58,633
Grakkagrunk
1046
02:05:58,633 --> 02:06:01,033
Conor Stuart Roe
1047
02:06:01,033 --> 02:06:03,000
Sylvia Sotomayor
1048
02:06:03,000 --> 02:06:04,733
Daniel Quigley
1049
02:06:04,733 --> 02:06:06,699
Sigourney Hunter
1050
02:06:06,699 --> 02:06:09,166
iloivar Jaana Mentoleum
1051
02:06:09,166 --> 02:06:11,033
Vyren Patrick
1052
02:06:11,033 --> 02:06:12,833
Niklas Nordblad
1053
02:06:12,833 --> 02:06:14,633
Artifexian
1054
02:06:14,633 --> 02:06:16,466
Jake Penny
1055
02:06:16,466 --> 02:06:18,833
Miles Wronkovich
1056
02:06:18,833 --> 02:06:20,466
Tabby
1057
02:06:20,466 --> 02:06:22,399
Paul Roser
1058
02:06:22,399 --> 02:06:24,000
our table
1059
02:06:24,000 --> 02:06:25,399
nai
1060
02:06:25,399 --> 02:06:27,233
Tinguish
1061
02:06:27,233 --> 02:06:30,366
Leslie R. Waggoner III
1062
02:06:30,366 --> 02:06:35,233
and J. T.
1063
02:06:35,266 --> 02:06:40,500
Conlangery's theme music is by Null Device.
1064
02:06:40,566 --> 02:06:45,000
Conlangery is distributed under a Creative Commons Attribution
1065
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:50,600
Non-Commercial Share Alike 4.0 international license.