1 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,666 From this overpowering... 2 01:00:04,333 --> 01:00:05,333 Sense that... 3 01:00:05,699 --> 01:00:06,833 That we grew up with. 4 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:08,400 That... 5 01:00:08,666 --> 01:00:14,066 You know, that... That aUi ould be the language for peace through understanding. 6 01:00:14,266 --> 01:00:16,000 And... And... 7 01:00:16,233 --> 01:00:17,233 And... 8 01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:20,800 World wars happen every 30 years, my father said. 9 01:00:21,133 --> 01:00:23,466 And an average throughout history about... 10 01:00:23,466 --> 01:00:26,300 Every generation there are some kind of world wars. 11 01:00:27,066 --> 01:00:29,099 At least I felt it as a child. 12 01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,733 Well, not mandate, but at least pressure to... You know, that... 13 01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:41,933 That if I didn't continue this, it would be... It would be a disaster and so forth. 14 01:00:59,766 --> 01:01:02,300 Welcome to Conlangery, the podcast about constructed 15 01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:04,400 languages and the people who create them. 16 01:01:04,433 --> 01:01:05,433 I'm George Corley. 17 01:01:05,633 --> 01:01:10,800 And with me in the great state of Washington is Andrea Weilgard. 18 01:01:12,033 --> 01:01:23,333 And Andrea is the daughter of the creator of aUi, the language of space. 19 01:01:25,466 --> 01:01:27,466 So, Andrea, how are you doing? 20 01:01:29,333 --> 01:01:32,933 Well, thank you so much, George, for inviting me. 21 01:01:33,099 --> 01:01:36,400 And I've tried to prepare. 22 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:41,900 I've approached this with some trepidation because 23 01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,766 I'm thinking of this as mostly a linguistic approach. 24 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:52,233 And so I'm feeling like I'm not necessarily 25 01:01:52,233 --> 01:01:57,033 have all the necessary background, but I'm sure. 26 01:01:59,300 --> 01:02:06,166 I've spent a lot, most of my life or a lot of my life working with aUi. 27 01:02:06,599 --> 01:02:16,000 So that's that's something that has interested me for a long time. 28 01:02:16,266 --> 01:02:21,366 And I don't know, though, as far as you know, 29 01:02:21,366 --> 01:02:25,266 how it is received in the linguistic community. 30 01:02:25,966 --> 01:02:26,599 Yes. 31 01:02:26,733 --> 01:02:27,900 Well, I. 32 01:02:28,966 --> 01:02:35,433 When you had someone contacted me and said you were interested in coming on, 33 01:02:35,933 --> 01:02:43,900 it was interesting to me because aUi is one of those languages that at least when 34 01:02:43,900 --> 01:02:50,400 I started with the conlanging community, it's sort of like it's it's one of those 35 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,033 languages that floats around as like an example of something unique. 36 01:02:54,933 --> 01:02:58,733 And I thought it would be interesting to. 37 01:02:59,199 --> 01:03:04,466 Hear from someone close to the the creator and hear a little bit about. 38 01:03:06,266 --> 01:03:09,133 About the language to start with. 39 01:03:12,466 --> 01:03:16,166 Can you can you talk to me a little bit about how 40 01:03:16,199 --> 01:03:20,933 you have been involved with this language and and. 41 01:03:23,233 --> 01:03:28,333 Apparently sort of continuing on your father's legacy and like. 42 01:03:29,733 --> 01:03:34,133 How how did that develop? 43 01:03:34,433 --> 01:03:39,599 You did you grow up learning about it or how did that work? 44 01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:47,233 Well, my sister and I and mostly I were kind of 45 01:03:47,233 --> 01:03:55,199 co-opted as my father's guinea pigs and in in. 46 01:03:56,066 --> 01:03:59,000 Writing the symbols on the board during classes in. 47 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:07,833 his - some of his seminars on the psychology of communication at Luther College, and he 48 01:04:07,833 --> 01:04:13,333 would always he at first actually they started in our home and it was very 49 01:04:13,333 --> 01:04:18,066 informal and my mother would have dessert at the end and it was just in our small 50 01:04:18,099 --> 01:04:24,033 little living room and and we'd be the ones writing the symbols on this big huge 51 01:04:24,033 --> 01:04:28,333 heavy slate board slate real true real heavy slate. 52 01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:35,233 And then we'd sometimes play these word guessing games, which was, you know, 53 01:04:35,466 --> 01:04:37,800 that was that was kind of fun and. 54 01:04:39,966 --> 01:04:44,433 And then later it got moved to the college as a class up at the college and a seminar 55 01:04:44,433 --> 01:04:47,099 evening seminar and we were always expected to 56 01:04:47,099 --> 01:04:50,733 go every Monday night from seven to nine and. 57 01:04:52,433 --> 01:04:54,133 So, and in addition to that. 58 01:04:55,766 --> 01:04:58,333 We did a lot of typing of my father's. 59 01:04:58,599 --> 01:05:08,666 German - written German shorthand written in English manuscripts of a different book 60 01:05:08,666 --> 01:05:15,900 actually that never got published but but also the sequel to the aUi book, 61 01:05:16,099 --> 01:05:17,099 which is the. 62 01:05:18,433 --> 01:05:21,266 Cosmic elements of meaning, is it more of a kind 63 01:05:21,266 --> 01:05:25,333 of a philosophy behind the the symbology and. 64 01:05:26,733 --> 01:05:27,733 So. 65 01:05:28,433 --> 01:05:31,433 We would spend cuz at that time we didn't have a good 66 01:05:31,433 --> 01:05:34,333 enough typewriter so we we typed we got to use the. 67 01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:38,866 One of the offices IBM typewriters in the during the 68 01:05:38,866 --> 01:05:41,733 off hours so we'd be up there in the wee hours of. 69 01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:47,166 Typing and and so anyway, so yeah so and you know, 70 01:05:47,166 --> 01:05:52,766 and I always thought that there there it was it was. 71 01:05:55,066 --> 01:06:02,199 It always drew me because of the, really the beauty and simplicity of the symbols. 72 01:06:02,733 --> 01:06:10,733 And there was, you know, I, you know, as, as, as a teenager, it, it was, 73 01:06:10,766 --> 01:06:18,166 you know, not necessarily my favorite thing to do because it wasn't, 74 01:06:19,566 --> 01:06:31,099 it was sort of expected, but, and, but still, I saw my father's, you know, 75 01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:37,766 I really felt deeply, I guess, because I'm the older one, felt deeply his 76 01:06:38,099 --> 01:06:45,566 idealistic, this as an idealistic cause. 77 01:06:46,933 --> 01:06:56,633 And he, however, you know, he taught it, and in our family, it was almost like 78 01:06:56,833 --> 01:07:02,366 this, I don't know, it was almost like a mission. 79 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:08,933 And so, which I wish and other, other professors at the college, 80 01:07:10,033 --> 01:07:17,333 I think, or at least a few have, have said, you know, that it would have 81 01:07:17,333 --> 01:07:20,666 been better if he had done actual research with the language. 82 01:07:20,833 --> 01:07:27,400 And, and so that's kind of the direction that I would 83 01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:32,133 be more interested, although I also come from this background of 84 01:07:32,633 --> 01:07:36,900 spreading it in, in, in popularizing it. 85 01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:41,166 So I'm kind of in between these two worlds, because it's 86 01:07:41,166 --> 01:07:44,333 not, no, it still doesn't seem to be well known enough. 87 01:07:44,533 --> 01:07:52,099 And, and also, every attempt that we have made in the past to, to approach 88 01:07:52,099 --> 01:07:57,000 linguists, at least at that time, you know, 20, 30 years ago or more, 89 01:07:57,766 --> 01:08:02,000 there wasn't, there wasn't an interest for that. 90 01:08:02,666 --> 01:08:15,133 And, at all, even back in, even back in 20-, 2001, when I went to the LSA 91 01:08:15,133 --> 01:08:20,399 Linguistics Summer Institute on Linguistics or Semantics or whatever it 92 01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:26,433 was, Linguistics Institute at Berkeley, not Berkeley, not at, at Santa Barbara. 93 01:08:29,666 --> 01:08:32,866 I talked with several professors there, and, you know, they see it as a 94 01:08:32,899 --> 01:08:43,899 historical, historical, one, or at the kind of a, maybe a, the final... 95 01:08:43,899 --> 01:08:44,899 A relic, right? 96 01:08:44,966 --> 01:08:51,966 Well, yeah, but a final example of this long, long, centuries long search for a 97 01:08:51,966 --> 01:08:54,733 language that based on semantic primitives. 98 01:08:55,399 --> 01:08:57,399 And so, but as far as... 99 01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:02,800 taking it seriously from a linguistic standpoint, you know, either they say it's 100 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:04,800 too complicated or they say it's too simplistic. 101 01:09:05,500 --> 01:09:09,833 And so, but anyway, but so there's always 102 01:09:09,866 --> 01:09:13,666 been something that has drawn me back to it. 103 01:09:14,433 --> 01:09:21,166 And so after my father passed away in 1981, I kind of 104 01:09:21,166 --> 01:09:24,500 felt that at some point I was going to get back to it. 105 01:09:24,533 --> 01:09:27,000 And I was just waiting for someone to... 106 01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:30,699 support me and help me in that endeavor. 107 01:09:30,833 --> 01:09:35,866 And I wish I could have gotten a degree in linguistics and, but even then at that 108 01:09:36,066 --> 01:09:44,000 time, you know, conlangs were not something that was supported in a research sense. 109 01:09:44,133 --> 01:09:47,500 I think, I think now within the last, I don't know, 10 years, 110 01:09:47,500 --> 01:09:51,600 that might've been more something that might be possible. 111 01:09:51,666 --> 01:09:52,766 Anyway, anyway. 112 01:09:52,899 --> 01:09:54,899 So I've talked about that. 113 01:09:54,899 --> 01:09:56,333 Well, I, I will say... 114 01:09:58,066 --> 01:10:04,899 Conlangs in general have not really, have more recently gotten some, 115 01:10:04,899 --> 01:10:11,533 some respect from academics, but like, even when I was starting grad school, 116 01:10:11,666 --> 01:10:16,300 I was not, I was iffy about like how much I wanted to talk about conlanging with, 117 01:10:16,533 --> 01:10:17,699 with my professors, right? 118 01:10:18,266 --> 01:10:20,466 Because I didn't know what their reaction would be. 119 01:10:21,100 --> 01:10:27,399 And then something like aUi, seeing how it is. 120 01:10:27,899 --> 01:10:35,600 And it's, that might be even more because it is quite a radical experiment. 121 01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:44,433 So, um, if you're on the audio behind Andrea is, are the, 122 01:10:44,433 --> 01:10:49,533 uh, the, the entirety of the symbols that make up aUi. 123 01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:50,899 Is that right? 124 01:10:51,033 --> 01:10:52,800 That that's, that's the whole chart, right? 125 01:10:53,166 --> 01:10:53,866 Yeah. 126 01:10:53,899 --> 01:10:57,399 So the phonemes as well as the phonemes. 127 01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,633 The, the, the sememes, is that what you, is that what we're calling? 128 01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:06,600 Well, the, yeah, the, the graphemes and the phonemes and the, and each, 129 01:11:07,033 --> 01:11:13,133 and each individual segment is, is a morpheme on its own. 130 01:11:13,199 --> 01:11:13,533 Right. 131 01:11:14,100 --> 01:11:21,033 Um, and so this is what nowadays at, at the time, this terminology wasn't there. 132 01:11:21,466 --> 01:11:23,766 This is what we would nowadays call an 133 01:11:23,766 --> 01:11:27,266 oligosynthetic language, where it has a very minimal. 134 01:11:27,433 --> 01:11:31,433 Set of roots that are combined in order to make more meanings. 135 01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:39,266 Can you tell me about like, what was, why was choice made to have these very few 136 01:11:39,266 --> 01:11:46,000 primitive roots and like how that was used to construct 137 01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,600 how that is, is used to construct larger words? 138 01:11:52,466 --> 01:11:59,100 I think my father's idea was to find concepts. 139 01:11:59,166 --> 01:12:05,666 That all languages and cultures had in common and 140 01:12:05,666 --> 01:12:10,633 the fact that you need in order to have a language. 141 01:12:11,833 --> 01:12:16,600 You know, with a phoneme assigned to each morpheme. 142 01:12:18,166 --> 01:12:22,300 Um, there's a certain, there's, of course, a limitation right there. 143 01:12:23,333 --> 01:12:27,566 Because the most common phonemes. 144 01:12:28,466 --> 01:12:33,000 Um, pretty much comprise the, the alphabet as we know it. 145 01:12:34,933 --> 01:12:42,933 Um, and so, uh, unless you get really crazy and I mean, uh, no, um, unless you 146 01:12:42,933 --> 01:12:49,566 go to more exotic languages, I guess, uh, I don't know if that's the right term either. 147 01:12:50,300 --> 01:12:55,066 Just, uh, uh, languages that are not familiar in the Western world. 148 01:12:55,333 --> 01:12:56,333 Shall we say? 149 01:12:56,933 --> 01:12:57,533 As much. 150 01:12:57,566 --> 01:12:58,566 Uh-huh. 151 01:12:58,566 --> 01:13:07,899 And so, um, so, you know, ideally they would be fairly easy to pronounce. 152 01:13:08,866 --> 01:13:15,600 And, uh, they pretty much are, except for Americans, the /y/ and the /ø/ are the 153 01:13:15,633 --> 01:13:21,100 ones that, and the /x/ maybe are the ones that are end up being more difficult. 154 01:13:21,699 --> 01:13:26,199 But, um, so in order to limit it. 155 01:13:26,199 --> 01:13:31,566 Um, by phonemes, you can only have so many morphemes assigned. 156 01:13:32,633 --> 01:13:41,033 And, um, also, so, so, and so the way that he, part of the way that he, uh, 157 01:13:41,066 --> 01:13:49,100 I think came to identify them is, I mean, aside from his, his studying of 158 01:13:49,100 --> 01:13:53,233 almost a dozen different languages, including Japanese. 159 01:13:54,766 --> 01:14:03,166 He, um, took, uh, he, there was some kind of process, I think, as I understood it, 160 01:14:03,633 --> 01:14:07,899 where he would take words and, and keep going, like, in the dictionary, 161 01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:11,633 keep going down, finding simpler and simpler definitions. 162 01:14:12,300 --> 01:14:20,233 And, and then when the definition became circular, um, then, you know, then you, 163 01:14:20,300 --> 01:14:24,399 you find the most basic ones that aren't defined in any more simpler terms. 164 01:14:25,066 --> 01:14:29,266 And, um, um, um, and usually what happens, they become circular in the dictionary. 165 01:14:29,300 --> 01:14:33,866 And then you start using the other, the word that you, that you use to define it. 166 01:14:33,899 --> 01:14:41,233 So, so he, and, and of course, also from his background in philosophy 167 01:14:41,233 --> 01:14:53,733 and, um, you know, um, he came to, to posit that these could be. 168 01:14:54,133 --> 01:15:02,633 Potentially universal, or at least represented in other languages in some 169 01:15:02,633 --> 01:15:08,300 form, not necessarily, not necessarily lexemically 170 01:15:08,300 --> 01:15:11,533 represented, but the concept be represented. 171 01:15:12,699 --> 01:15:13,699 Right. 172 01:15:14,466 --> 01:15:18,266 But that's, that, that's an interesting process to go through because like, 173 01:15:19,533 --> 01:15:22,633 uh, just to, to let the audience know that, that. 174 01:15:22,733 --> 01:15:23,166 Right. 175 01:15:23,566 --> 01:15:27,833 It's, it's sort of getting into a cyclical, uh, um, uh, sort of a loop, 176 01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:34,333 uh, in definitions that will happen with any dictionary. 177 01:15:35,666 --> 01:15:41,033 Because we don't, dictionaries can only define words by other words, but in the 178 01:15:41,033 --> 01:15:45,233 real, in reality, the way that words are defined are 179 01:15:45,233 --> 01:15:48,733 based on connecting them to something in the world. 180 01:15:48,866 --> 01:15:49,866 Right. 181 01:15:50,300 --> 01:15:53,033 So, so it's interesting. 182 01:15:53,033 --> 01:15:56,800 It's interesting that he was going and, you know, finding these loops and then 183 01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:01,866 trying to figure out what is like the essential meaning 184 01:16:01,866 --> 01:16:04,766 that could be shared by, by different languages. 185 01:16:04,866 --> 01:16:09,933 It's a, it's an interesting thought experiment and it's an interesting experiment. 186 01:16:11,266 --> 01:16:19,266 It is, um, now I do want to go, go into, there are some claims about aUi. 187 01:16:20,366 --> 01:16:22,766 That, that, that were made. 188 01:16:23,533 --> 01:16:31,266 That I kind of want to address because there are, and as you said, there wasn't 189 01:16:31,266 --> 01:16:35,966 really research done on it, but there were, there were claims that made that 190 01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:44,766 like it would help defend against propaganda in certain ways. 191 01:16:45,366 --> 01:16:51,600 And there were claims made that it was less arbitrary than natural languages. 192 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:57,300 And I kind of want to poke at that because those are big claims to make. 193 01:16:59,466 --> 01:17:07,133 Um, and to me, like first, first of all, looking at the arbitrariness, I would say 194 01:17:07,133 --> 01:17:11,300 that even, even when you're thinking about trying to make the, 195 01:17:11,300 --> 01:17:15,366 this, the symbols that you have up are, are trying to be iconic. 196 01:17:16,866 --> 01:17:21,566 But there's still some amount of arbitrariness to their, their... Yeah. 197 01:17:21,699 --> 01:17:23,000 To, to choosing them. 198 01:17:23,066 --> 01:17:24,066 Right? 199 01:17:24,399 --> 01:17:32,399 And also bigger claims about, um, making a language that will change the way 200 01:17:32,566 --> 01:17:33,566 people think. 201 01:17:34,566 --> 01:17:36,766 There are a lot of like engineered languages that 202 01:17:36,866 --> 01:17:40,166 make that claim or that people make that claim about. 203 01:17:41,166 --> 01:17:50,199 And I mean, it's hard to see what the, I'm not sure what the evidence is for that. 204 01:17:50,266 --> 01:17:50,666 Right. 205 01:17:50,833 --> 01:17:52,433 So can you address those? 206 01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:54,199 Well, okay. 207 01:17:54,300 --> 01:18:01,466 So as far as arbitrariness, you may ultimately, um, language is, okay, 208 01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:02,800 so here's a question. 209 01:18:03,699 --> 01:18:10,266 Is it not possible to have a, is arbitrariness on a, on a scale so that, 210 01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:14,166 you know, it's neither a fully non -arbitrary or 211 01:18:14,166 --> 01:18:18,600 it's fully arbitrary so that, I mean, yes, I think. 212 01:18:19,566 --> 01:18:28,100 If you connect, um, the symbols and sound with some kind of rationale that relates 213 01:18:28,100 --> 01:18:34,766 it to reality, then is that make it a slightly less or somewhat less arbitrary? 214 01:18:36,899 --> 01:18:38,899 I suppose it can. 215 01:18:39,766 --> 01:18:42,566 Like, um, if I, if I looking at your chart. 216 01:18:42,699 --> 01:18:48,566 So your, um, your symbol for round 217 01:18:48,566 --> 01:18:50,199 Is a good example. 218 01:18:50,300 --> 01:18:52,899 It's like a circle that's inside another circle. 219 01:18:53,466 --> 01:19:01,266 I can see that the symbol, the written simple itself 220 01:19:01,300 --> 01:19:05,433 is what we is fairly what we would call iconic. 221 01:19:05,666 --> 01:19:11,500 Iconic means that the, the, the linguistic form is itself 222 01:19:11,500 --> 01:19:15,300 representative of what it means in the real world in some way. 223 01:19:15,366 --> 01:19:15,800 Right? 224 01:19:16,366 --> 01:19:17,733 Um, and we can. 225 01:19:18,666 --> 01:19:25,800 In, in natural languages, we do find iconicity like this. 226 01:19:25,833 --> 01:19:28,399 Uh, we find it in syntax. 227 01:19:28,500 --> 01:19:33,033 We find it, um, uh, where like, um, serial verb 228 01:19:33,033 --> 01:19:36,199 constructions will follow a temporal order. 229 01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:40,033 That is the same as the temporal order that you would have. 230 01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,100 You would find in sign languages, actually. 231 01:19:43,266 --> 01:19:46,866 Sign languages seem to have more iconicity than, uh. 232 01:19:47,300 --> 01:19:48,466 Uh, oral languages. 233 01:19:50,666 --> 01:19:54,566 For what reason, it's hard to say, but like, I believe, 234 01:19:54,633 --> 01:20:01,800 like, like, um, like ASL for, uh, milk is this. 235 01:20:01,966 --> 01:20:02,399 Right. 236 01:20:02,766 --> 01:20:04,233 Milking a cow's udders. 237 01:20:04,366 --> 01:20:05,366 Right? 238 01:20:06,566 --> 01:20:10,800 So you can have signs in a language. 239 01:20:12,100 --> 01:20:17,266 Um, you can have symbols in, uh, in a language that are. 240 01:20:17,399 --> 01:20:20,733 closer to what it represents in the real world. 241 01:20:21,366 --> 01:20:27,866 There's, I, I believe, I, I believe that there's always going to be some amount of 242 01:20:27,866 --> 01:20:34,066 jump just because if nothing else you're filtering through human perception. 243 01:20:34,466 --> 01:20:35,066 Yeah. 244 01:20:35,433 --> 01:20:40,800 Um, but there's always going to be some kind of arbitrary mapping. 245 01:20:41,566 --> 01:20:42,199 There has to be. 246 01:20:42,266 --> 01:20:43,133 There has to be. 247 01:20:43,133 --> 01:20:43,466 Yes. 248 01:20:43,466 --> 01:20:43,899 Because. 249 01:20:43,899 --> 01:20:47,699 But there, there definitely is a scale, as you say. 250 01:20:47,866 --> 01:20:48,866 Yeah. 251 01:20:49,300 --> 01:20:57,199 And there, I, I could see that there, you could make an argument that aUi is 252 01:20:57,199 --> 01:21:01,399 maybe less arbitrary, at least in the written symbols. 253 01:21:02,233 --> 01:21:05,866 In the, the, the sort of the sound to meaning mapping. 254 01:21:07,199 --> 01:21:08,399 Uh, maybe. 255 01:21:08,766 --> 01:21:13,866 I, I, I, I saw on your site that you have rationales for. 256 01:21:13,899 --> 01:21:17,199 For why the sounds were chosen for the meanings. 257 01:21:17,466 --> 01:21:18,066 Mm-hmm. 258 01:21:18,300 --> 01:21:22,266 And that is, that seems like less of a connection 259 01:21:22,266 --> 01:21:26,466 for a lot of them, but still makes some sense. 260 01:21:28,666 --> 01:21:33,566 Well, you know, I mean, language, language is so complex. 261 01:21:33,633 --> 01:21:34,266 Yeah. 262 01:21:34,566 --> 01:21:38,433 And it's, and it's a, it's a concept of the mind. 263 01:21:38,666 --> 01:21:43,933 It's, it's trying to put ethereal thought, thinking into. 264 01:21:43,966 --> 01:21:49,833 Into, you know, our, our thoughts, our ethereal thoughts into something, 265 01:21:49,933 --> 01:21:56,466 um, that is expressible verbally and sounds put to it. 266 01:21:56,500 --> 01:22:01,333 And then another person to understand that and, and how to do that. 267 01:22:01,699 --> 01:22:07,500 I mean, how to compared to conventional language. 268 01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:09,600 I mean, it just seems like. 269 01:22:10,199 --> 01:22:12,199 So still quite. 270 01:22:12,766 --> 01:22:18,766 A ways down, uh, away from relatively speaking, uh, less 271 01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:22,100 arbitrary than what you would find in conventional language. 272 01:22:22,866 --> 01:22:24,966 Um, so, I mean, yeah. 273 01:22:25,399 --> 01:22:25,966 Yeah. 274 01:22:26,066 --> 01:22:27,066 Yeah. 275 01:22:27,266 --> 01:22:33,466 So, I mean, as you can see here, a doc before a line means before it's, 276 01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:36,533 it's, it's in front of, uh, the mind. 277 01:22:37,233 --> 01:22:38,600 And it's a plosive. 278 01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:41,500 It's, it's, uh, you, you puff the air out. 279 01:22:41,533 --> 01:22:43,699 In, in front of the lips. 280 01:22:44,366 --> 01:22:46,966 And /b/ is a bilabial stop. 281 01:22:47,300 --> 01:22:50,466 It's, it's easy to see how the lips are pressed 282 01:22:50,466 --> 01:22:53,233 together and it means together and so forth. 283 01:22:53,366 --> 01:22:56,899 And /k/ is, is articulated in the upper pallet. 284 01:22:57,666 --> 01:22:59,800 Uh, upper velum. 285 01:23:00,033 --> 01:23:01,300 If that's correct. 286 01:23:01,566 --> 01:23:03,966 And /g/ is felt to be more inside. 287 01:23:04,033 --> 01:23:04,433 /g/ 288 01:23:04,866 --> 01:23:07,233 Um, and, and so forth. 289 01:23:07,533 --> 01:23:11,033 And, um, /i/ is the brightest sound. 290 01:23:11,033 --> 01:23:12,233 It has the highest frequency. 291 01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,233 Um, and so /i/, and it's a front. 292 01:23:15,300 --> 01:23:16,300 It's a forward. 293 01:23:16,566 --> 01:23:17,766 It's a frontal vowel. 294 01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:18,800 /i/ 295 01:23:19,133 --> 01:23:22,066 And so it's bright and front and /iː / sound. 296 01:23:22,366 --> 01:23:23,466 Sound wave. 297 01:23:24,266 --> 01:23:26,366 Um, is just held longer. 298 01:23:26,466 --> 01:23:27,666 So because sound travels. 299 01:23:27,899 --> 01:23:29,433 More slowly than light. 300 01:23:29,533 --> 01:23:30,533 And so forth. 301 01:23:30,699 --> 01:23:31,300 Then. 302 01:23:31,466 --> 01:23:31,800 Okay. 303 01:23:32,266 --> 01:23:32,866 Yeah. 304 01:23:32,966 --> 01:23:33,433 Yeah. 305 01:23:33,500 --> 01:23:34,699 And those are. 306 01:23:35,066 --> 01:23:37,266 These are all very interesting. 307 01:23:37,766 --> 01:23:38,766 Like. 308 01:23:39,533 --> 01:23:40,433 Ideas of how. 309 01:23:40,433 --> 01:23:40,566 How. 310 01:23:40,666 --> 01:23:41,800 How these go. 311 01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:43,333 At the same time. 312 01:23:43,366 --> 01:23:43,966 I can see. 313 01:23:44,100 --> 01:23:44,466 Like. 314 01:23:44,866 --> 01:23:47,100 Even in the ones that you are pointing out. 315 01:23:48,033 --> 01:23:49,033 There are. 316 01:23:49,266 --> 01:23:50,000 Still some. 317 01:23:50,266 --> 01:23:51,133 Choices made. 318 01:23:51,233 --> 01:23:51,800 Like you say. 319 01:23:51,899 --> 01:23:52,133 Okay. 320 01:23:52,166 --> 01:23:53,466 A dot before the line. 321 01:23:54,566 --> 01:23:55,566 For before. 322 01:23:55,766 --> 01:23:56,766 Now. 323 01:23:57,166 --> 01:23:57,466 That. 324 01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,533 Still only makes sense. 325 01:23:59,533 --> 01:24:00,933 Once you have chosen. 326 01:24:01,199 --> 01:24:03,199 The writing direction for the script. 327 01:24:03,766 --> 01:24:04,766 Uh. 328 01:24:05,166 --> 01:24:06,166 Which. 329 01:24:06,300 --> 01:24:07,800 Happens to me the same as. 330 01:24:08,100 --> 01:24:08,666 As. 331 01:24:08,666 --> 01:24:09,833 What English does. 332 01:24:09,866 --> 01:24:10,166 Is. 333 01:24:10,399 --> 01:24:10,500 Uh. 334 01:24:11,166 --> 01:24:12,166 Left to right. 335 01:24:12,833 --> 01:24:13,833 And. 336 01:24:14,399 --> 01:24:15,399 And there's also. 337 01:24:15,566 --> 01:24:16,566 You know. 338 01:24:17,500 --> 01:24:18,300 Because the. 339 01:24:18,433 --> 01:24:20,766 The symbols are still pretty abstract. 340 01:24:21,266 --> 01:24:21,800 You. 341 01:24:21,899 --> 01:24:22,600 You still have. 342 01:24:22,733 --> 01:24:23,033 Sort of. 343 01:24:23,166 --> 01:24:23,366 A. 344 01:24:23,466 --> 01:24:24,466 A. 345 01:24:24,566 --> 01:24:25,566 Situation. 346 01:24:25,699 --> 01:24:26,699 Of. 347 01:24:27,066 --> 01:24:27,566 Of. 348 01:24:27,899 --> 01:24:28,600 They've been. 349 01:24:28,833 --> 01:24:30,366 They've been reduced quite a bit. 350 01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:31,800 From. 351 01:24:31,866 --> 01:24:37,033 From what maybe an even more representative thing would be. 352 01:24:37,199 --> 01:24:42,866 And there are also ones in there. Like, bood is clearly a plus sign. 353 01:24:42,966 --> 01:24:48,066 Negation, probably is derived from a negative sign, right? 354 01:24:48,500 --> 01:24:48,899 So. 355 01:24:49,433 --> 01:24:52,399 Because is covers -- it negates what is below it. 356 01:24:52,466 --> 01:24:53,466 Okay. 357 01:24:53,500 --> 01:24:54,500 But. 358 01:24:55,199 --> 01:24:56,699 It is interesting. 359 01:24:57,899 --> 01:25:02,933 I think I concede that there are symbols in there that are more iconic 360 01:25:03,666 --> 01:25:09,766 than is typical for words in a language. 361 01:25:10,466 --> 01:25:11,466 But. 362 01:25:13,500 --> 01:25:16,266 But, you know, there's still some level of arbitrariness. 363 01:25:16,366 --> 01:25:20,000 I do want to say like. 364 01:25:21,666 --> 01:25:27,266 There's also the claims that this language will change the way you think, 365 01:25:27,899 --> 01:25:30,800 And change the way you perceive things. 366 01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:34,266 Well, that remains to be... 367 01:25:34,966 --> 01:25:35,533 Yeah. 368 01:25:35,699 --> 01:25:36,699 Tested, I suppose. 369 01:25:37,199 --> 01:25:39,166 I mean... You... 370 01:25:39,266 --> 01:25:43,266 I don't know how much you know how the language came about. 371 01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:45,600 You know, my father's... 372 01:25:49,366 --> 01:25:50,366 His... 373 01:25:52,399 --> 01:25:58,233 He was a young man under Hitler at the time that Hitler came to power. 374 01:25:59,266 --> 01:26:04,566 And he was very... 375 01:26:07,433 --> 01:26:09,500 Realized... I mean... 376 01:26:09,566 --> 01:26:18,566 And experienced the plethora of slogans that were around at the time that the... 377 01:26:20,933 --> 01:26:22,433 What is it? 378 01:26:22,433 --> 01:26:31,366 The Department of Language Manipulation under Hitler's regime. 379 01:26:33,199 --> 01:26:45,166 They very intentionally used language and slogans to emotionally, you know, 380 01:26:45,199 --> 01:26:51,733 reach the masses of people listening to them on... 381 01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:53,333 When he spoke to masses of people. 382 01:26:53,699 --> 01:26:59,033 And these alliterative slogans... 383 01:26:59,833 --> 01:27:01,033 And they are... 384 01:27:01,433 --> 01:27:07,100 Common in most... Any... I mean... In many situations in our politics today. 385 01:27:08,199 --> 01:27:09,633 That make use of this... 386 01:27:09,733 --> 01:27:10,733 These similar sounds. 387 01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:11,366 The... 388 01:27:11,766 --> 01:27:12,766 The... 389 01:27:13,100 --> 01:27:13,800 Parachesis? 390 01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:14,600 Have you heard of that? 391 01:27:14,733 --> 01:27:15,399 Parachesis? 392 01:27:15,699 --> 01:27:16,199 Anyway. 393 01:27:16,233 --> 01:27:17,233 Alliteration. 394 01:27:17,866 --> 01:27:18,866 And... 395 01:27:20,433 --> 01:27:21,433 And... 396 01:27:23,266 --> 01:27:26,666 My father's... The one... One of the research... 397 01:27:28,166 --> 01:27:34,033 Researchers that he did cite was Gregory Razran. 398 01:27:34,566 --> 01:27:35,133 And... 399 01:27:35,333 --> 01:27:36,333 His... 400 01:27:36,566 --> 01:27:41,133 Idea... Of... Who did this research on semantic conditioning. 401 01:27:42,500 --> 01:27:43,500 And... 402 01:27:43,966 --> 01:27:47,500 My father's conclusion... Was... 403 01:27:47,633 --> 01:27:49,966 That... Though... 404 01:27:51,233 --> 01:27:52,166 That the... 405 01:27:52,266 --> 01:27:55,066 Or... His... His... His... 406 01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:56,600 Idea was... 407 01:27:56,833 --> 01:27:57,833 That... 408 01:27:58,766 --> 01:28:06,600 Though the conscious mind may think in synonyms, but the... 409 01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:11,300 Subconscious mind may associate in assonance. And... 410 01:28:11,433 --> 01:28:15,100 And I would have to... 411 01:28:15,100 --> 01:28:19,000 Luria and Vinogradova is the paper here. 412 01:28:19,066 --> 01:28:22,333 An objective investigation of the dynamics of semantic systems. 413 01:28:23,733 --> 01:28:26,699 And... This is in the British Journal of Psychology. 414 01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:28,433 It's... It's from 1959. 415 01:28:30,866 --> 01:28:34,833 And... So... What they did was they... They... 416 01:28:34,833 --> 01:28:40,966 Performed some classical conditioning experiments on subjects that... 417 01:28:43,266 --> 01:28:48,233 Using words as a stimulant. 418 01:28:48,300 --> 01:28:48,933 And... 419 01:28:49,133 --> 01:28:51,100 It would be better if I just read this. 420 01:28:51,199 --> 01:28:52,399 Is... Is that okay? 421 01:28:52,466 --> 01:28:53,100 Yeah. 422 01:28:53,199 --> 01:28:53,600 You can read it. 423 01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:53,899 You can read that. 424 01:28:54,066 --> 01:28:55,100 Um... Yeah. 425 01:28:55,366 --> 01:28:57,399 It's just one... It's just a little paragraph here. 426 01:28:58,100 --> 01:28:59,100 Um... 427 01:28:59,466 --> 01:29:04,133 One such method was applied by Schwartz in 48, 49. 428 01:29:04,166 --> 01:29:06,800 Recording the change in light sensitivity of a 429 01:29:06,833 --> 01:29:11,866 dark-adapted eye resulting from a sudden illumination. 430 01:29:11,899 --> 01:29:12,566 Uh... 431 01:29:12,766 --> 01:29:15,633 She then combined the sudden illumination with 432 01:29:15,633 --> 01:29:19,066 the pronouncing by the experiment of the word... 433 01:29:19,300 --> 01:29:20,666 Doctor... Uh... 434 01:29:20,933 --> 01:29:22,466 Meaning physician. 435 01:29:23,500 --> 01:29:26,800 After a few combinations, this word, which up till then had been neutral, 436 01:29:26,899 --> 01:29:28,800 began to provoke a conditioned reflex. 437 01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:29,100 Okay. 438 01:29:29,166 --> 01:29:32,300 So that's... That's a conditioned... Uh... Response. 439 01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:33,166 And... 440 01:29:33,533 --> 01:29:36,066 Lowering the thresholds of light sensitivity. 441 01:29:36,166 --> 01:29:37,800 But as the experiment showed, such a lowering 442 01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:41,133 of the thresholds of light sensitivity was uh... 443 01:29:41,333 --> 01:29:45,866 Objectively provoked by the use of a number of other equivalent words too. 444 01:29:46,166 --> 01:29:51,666 And a normal adult subject knew such words as... These are Russian. 445 01:29:52,266 --> 01:29:54,100 врач (vrač) and ле́кар (lékar). 446 01:29:54,133 --> 01:29:56,033 Both meaning physician. 447 01:29:56,066 --> 01:30:01,699 Which sound completely different, but which are equivalent to the key word 448 01:30:01,899 --> 01:30:02,899 in meaning. 449 01:30:03,333 --> 01:30:08,699 And tests carried out to check this showed that words similar in sound, but 450 01:30:08,699 --> 01:30:13,333 pertaining to a different sense group... Uh... 451 01:30:13,833 --> 01:30:20,866 For instance, the word ди́ктор (díktor), which means announcer, did not act as a... 452 01:30:20,899 --> 01:30:25,033 As equivalent stimuli and did not provoke a corresponding 453 01:30:25,033 --> 01:30:27,566 change in the thresholds of light sensitivity. 454 01:30:28,233 --> 01:30:33,933 However, if the subject was given the appropriate dose of chloral hydrate and 455 01:30:33,966 --> 01:30:38,466 the cortex was put into inhibitory... an inhibitory 456 01:30:38,466 --> 01:30:42,899 state, the system of equivalent links changed. 457 01:30:43,166 --> 01:30:49,800 And now, the patient being in a drowsy state, the word díktor, which is similar 458 01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:57,433 in sound, to the key word of dóktor, began to provoke the same conditioned 459 01:30:57,433 --> 01:31:01,166 reflex in sensitivity, while the synonyms... 460 01:31:01,766 --> 01:31:06,100 The synonymous words lékar and vrač lost their characteristic... 461 01:31:06,366 --> 01:31:08,533 Their character of equivalent stimuli. 462 01:31:09,366 --> 01:31:12,699 Analogous tests have been carried out using different objective indicators... 463 01:31:12,733 --> 01:31:17,566 With salivary and galvanic skin and vascular reactions and depression of 464 01:31:17,633 --> 01:31:20,266 electrical activity of the brain and so forth. 465 01:31:20,399 --> 01:31:22,333 Blood coagulation reactions. 466 01:31:23,433 --> 01:31:35,666 And so, I mean, I do think it's intriguing that consciously, we over... 467 01:31:36,033 --> 01:31:38,833 I mean, I'm making these conclusions. 468 01:31:38,966 --> 01:31:43,600 That consciously, we may be able to override those 469 01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:49,500 associations that we subconsciously may tend to make. 470 01:31:49,966 --> 01:31:55,866 Between similar sounds versus similar meanings. 471 01:31:56,233 --> 01:32:03,366 And so, that the disparity that conventional language has in those two systems 472 01:32:05,666 --> 01:32:13,666 He was trying to rectify, I guess, or bring into kind of an 473 01:32:13,699 --> 01:32:19,199 isomorphic harmony so that if it sounds similar, it also means similar. 474 01:32:20,266 --> 01:32:21,266 Yeah. 475 01:32:21,399 --> 01:32:23,399 Then that is interesting. 476 01:32:23,566 --> 01:32:29,033 So, and I'm not up on the psychological research. 477 01:32:29,166 --> 01:32:36,800 So, I'm not necessarily going... I'm not going to attack that result necessarily. 478 01:32:37,399 --> 01:32:46,666 Let's take it as a given that we can have situations where we associate homophones 479 01:32:46,699 --> 01:32:53,399 versus other cases where we associate synonyms. 480 01:32:54,500 --> 01:32:59,399 That seems to make sense that we can be influenced in that way. 481 01:33:01,833 --> 01:33:08,933 How much does aUi really address that? 482 01:33:09,533 --> 01:33:13,233 Because, yes, a similar sound is going to have a 483 01:33:13,266 --> 01:33:17,166 similar meaning, but you also have a very few phones. 484 01:33:17,166 --> 01:33:18,500 Available. 485 01:33:21,500 --> 01:33:30,000 And I think it's worth talking about the way that you build words with this language. 486 01:33:30,866 --> 01:33:37,266 You have to put together a bunch of these symbols together and you could end up with 487 01:33:37,266 --> 01:33:42,433 pretty similar sounding words that have pretty different meanings still. 488 01:33:43,066 --> 01:33:44,066 Right? 489 01:33:45,500 --> 01:33:46,566 To some extent. 490 01:33:46,566 --> 01:33:46,899 To some extent. 491 01:33:47,100 --> 01:33:48,100 But I don't know. 492 01:33:48,199 --> 01:33:54,199 I know you talked about that and I don't know that that's really so much the case. 493 01:33:54,233 --> 01:34:04,000 I mean, certainly not so much the case as you will find in other-- of a priori 494 01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:12,433 language efforts in which they, at least as far as that I've seen, 495 01:34:12,899 --> 01:34:15,866 there are, you know, Sona. 496 01:34:15,866 --> 01:34:20,233 I mean, there's, there's all these, I have them listed here somewhere. 497 01:34:20,300 --> 01:34:25,300 There's, there's a whole, there's quite a few of -- Ygyde 498 01:34:25,366 --> 01:34:27,100 I don't know if that rings a bell to you. 499 01:34:27,966 --> 01:34:33,933 It's, it's listed in the Frath Wiki, one of the Frath Wiki entries. 500 01:34:34,100 --> 01:34:40,166 There's like a whole bunch of, of languages and, 501 01:34:40,166 --> 01:34:49,633 and that work that with an effort to make them have some meaningful relationship 502 01:34:49,666 --> 01:34:59,866 that the letters at least are -- have some innate meaning, but the difference is... 503 01:34:59,899 --> 01:35:04,033 and those words that I've seen, they are very similar. 504 01:35:04,033 --> 01:35:04,666 Oh my gosh. 505 01:35:04,899 --> 01:35:07,199 They would be, it would be very hard to tell them 506 01:35:07,199 --> 01:35:09,833 apart because you're still only using letters. 507 01:35:10,233 --> 01:35:14,600 And, whereas in aUi. 508 01:35:14,633 --> 01:35:20,199 You have the symbol, the morpheme, the iconic symbol attached 509 01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:27,800 to it, which then still makes you be able to differentiate them quite a bit. 510 01:35:27,899 --> 01:35:31,833 Yeah, that's... well, that is the case, if it's written. 511 01:35:33,466 --> 01:35:42,100 When you are... but it is also meant to have a spoken register with the sounds. 512 01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:53,666 And, you know, one thing I would say is that, yes, you have all of these concepts 513 01:35:53,666 --> 01:35:57,433 that each have a unique sound, right? 514 01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:04,733 However, another part of that is that some of the sounds, 515 01:36:04,733 --> 01:36:09,399 depending on your language background, may sound very similar. 516 01:36:10,066 --> 01:36:15,800 /e/ and /i/ can sound very similar to different people, right? 517 01:36:16,766 --> 01:36:24,466 So... and then you are ending up with a confusion of the movement in light, right? 518 01:36:25,266 --> 01:36:31,199 So, I am interested in all these ideas that go into this language. 519 01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:37,833 And I think the process that your father went through to choose the symbols that he 520 01:36:37,966 --> 01:36:39,966 did and the... 521 01:36:41,466 --> 01:36:45,133 you know, the semantic primitives that he did is very interesting. 522 01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:49,966 I just... you know, I am just poking at some of the claims... 523 01:36:49,966 --> 01:36:51,233 Yeah, I understand that. 524 01:36:51,433 --> 01:36:52,233 I mean... Yeah. 525 01:36:52,300 --> 01:36:53,466 ...you know... Yeah. 526 01:36:53,733 --> 01:36:56,199 The thing is that even if... 527 01:36:58,466 --> 01:37:03,766 even if, you know, /i/ and /iː / if you can't distinguish that, I mean, they are. 528 01:37:03,766 --> 01:37:07,633 .. you know, aUi... I mean, it doesn't actually have 529 01:37:08,566 --> 01:37:11,166 greatly different sounds than other languages. 530 01:37:11,166 --> 01:37:16,800 I guess I'm not quite sure, and it doesn't... I mean, most languages don't 531 01:37:16,966 --> 01:37:22,066 have about this number of phonemes, is that not correct? 532 01:37:22,066 --> 01:37:26,199 Well, I'm just... I was just giving an example. 533 01:37:26,933 --> 01:37:37,100 1Like, /ɛ/ /e/ and /i/ yeah, I was just saying, yeah, I mean, well, so there are. 534 01:37:37,100 --> 01:37:37,566 .. 535 01:37:39,833 --> 01:37:45,233 So the vowel sounds, there's five vowels and then a length distinction, right? 536 01:37:45,266 --> 01:37:46,266 Is that how this... 537 01:37:46,633 --> 01:37:54,699 Yeah, so it's /a aː e eː i iː / and /o oː /. 538 01:37:54,733 --> 01:37:55,766 Yeah. 539 01:37:56,066 --> 01:38:00,466 Popping in with an editor's note, I said in the podcast 540 01:38:00,466 --> 01:38:06,266 here that aUi has five vowels, and I was mistaken on that. 541 01:38:06,333 --> 01:38:14,733 It actually has seven, because it has /y/ and /ø/ the front rounded vowels. 542 01:38:15,133 --> 01:38:19,333 It's a little bit weird, because /y/ alternates 543 01:38:19,333 --> 01:38:23,100 with /j/, probably just from English spelling. 544 01:38:23,133 --> 01:38:27,100 But yeah, those vowels are there in the language. 545 01:38:28,466 --> 01:38:35,199 So, I mean, when I say depending on your language background, okay, five vowels 546 01:38:35,199 --> 01:38:40,533 will work for a lot of human... of a lot of language backgrounds. 547 01:38:41,166 --> 01:38:44,500 But not all languages will have a length distinction. 548 01:38:44,500 --> 01:38:47,399 And some people, that might get lost on them. 549 01:38:48,300 --> 01:38:54,166 There are a decent number of languages that have only three vowels, the /a/, 550 01:38:54,199 --> 01:39:00,466 /i/, and /u/, and they might have slightly more difficulty 551 01:39:00,466 --> 01:39:05,800 distinguishing like /e/ from /i/ and /o/ from /u/, right? 552 01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:14,699 So, it may depend a little bit on your language background previously, 553 01:39:15,033 --> 01:39:24,899 like how effective it is on the phonological side, on the sound side, that separation is. 554 01:39:28,166 --> 01:39:34,399 It is definitely a fascinating sort of attempt at some 555 01:39:34,399 --> 01:39:38,833 kind of a universal language or a philosophical language. 556 01:39:39,166 --> 01:39:40,166 Yeah. 557 01:39:43,233 --> 01:39:47,699 I don't, you know, I have tried to get away from the idea 558 01:39:47,766 --> 01:39:51,699 That this is ever going to be spoken internationally. 559 01:39:51,933 --> 01:39:56,666 I mean, that's not going to happen, certainly not in our lifetime. 560 01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:02,533 I don't know, maybe after the apocalypse with our current situation here, 561 01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:12,966 We might have to have a total renewing of everything that has existed so far. 562 01:40:13,366 --> 01:40:14,733 But who knows? 563 01:40:16,333 --> 01:40:17,333 So... 564 01:40:18,766 --> 01:40:19,333 I don't... 565 01:40:19,466 --> 01:40:22,699 That's, you know, that's kind of not where I'm at. 566 01:40:22,899 --> 01:40:28,199 As you know, any language is going to be difficult for some people to learn. 567 01:40:28,433 --> 01:40:29,800 And we can't... Yeah. 568 01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:31,866 It's just not... There's... It's not... 569 01:40:32,266 --> 01:40:33,533 I mean, how would you... 570 01:40:33,666 --> 01:40:34,733 You... Yeah. 571 01:40:34,766 --> 01:40:35,500 How would you do that? 572 01:40:35,566 --> 01:40:38,433 I mean, I don't think... I am... 573 01:40:39,133 --> 01:40:39,666 I... 574 01:40:40,066 --> 01:40:44,933 And as far as an international auxiliary language, that's also, you know, 575 01:40:45,133 --> 01:40:46,133 I don't know. 576 01:40:46,466 --> 01:40:47,466 That's... 577 01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:49,899 I'm trying to be realistic. 578 01:40:50,166 --> 01:40:51,733 - And... - Yeah. 579 01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:53,166 And so, that's... 580 01:40:53,233 --> 01:40:58,899 You know, I'm more interested in it from just more of a research perspective. 581 01:40:59,033 --> 01:41:00,366 And... Oh, and I just... 582 01:41:00,366 --> 01:41:04,800 I did want to address that /i/ and /iː /, even though you possibly could confuse 583 01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:10,000 those, they are still, you know, /i/ light, /iː / sound. 584 01:41:10,233 --> 01:41:13,333 They're still sort of in the realm of something that's related. 585 01:41:14,033 --> 01:41:15,100 So, I mean... 586 01:41:15,300 --> 01:41:18,366 ...you still, you know, you still have relationships. 587 01:41:19,133 --> 01:41:22,433 They are still somewhat -- /u/ and /uː /. 588 01:41:22,633 --> 01:41:23,633 I mean, so... 589 01:41:24,366 --> 01:41:24,866 Yeah. 590 01:41:24,966 --> 01:41:29,133 And by the way, if I could share the screen at some point, not necessarily 591 01:41:29,133 --> 01:41:36,166 right now, I could show how the words sound and related words sound and... 592 01:41:36,833 --> 01:41:37,466 Well, you could do that. 593 01:41:37,633 --> 01:41:38,066 Yeah. 594 01:41:38,166 --> 01:41:39,166 Yeah. 595 01:41:41,133 --> 01:41:43,000 Did that address your second question? 596 01:41:43,533 --> 01:41:44,033 Yeah. 597 01:41:44,033 --> 01:41:45,766 We were talking about the propaganda. 598 01:41:46,066 --> 01:41:46,166 Yeah. 599 01:41:46,233 --> 01:41:46,366 Yeah. 600 01:41:46,433 --> 01:41:46,566 Yeah. 601 01:41:46,566 --> 01:41:46,800 Okay. 602 01:41:46,866 --> 01:41:47,866 So, that pretty much... 603 01:41:48,133 --> 01:41:50,766 I mean, that is... 604 01:41:51,066 --> 01:41:54,833 You know, my father said that slogans don't cause war. 605 01:41:54,866 --> 01:41:58,766 He said that they possibly can trigger war because they can 606 01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:08,433 focus these tensions and frustrations of a people that... 607 01:42:09,033 --> 01:42:13,833 At least this was the situation after the First World War. 608 01:42:13,833 --> 01:42:18,066 ...and focus them on a scapegoat and so forth. 609 01:42:18,166 --> 01:42:19,433 I mean, it's happening now. 610 01:42:19,766 --> 01:42:20,766 So... 611 01:42:22,733 --> 01:42:23,733 Yeah. 612 01:42:24,133 --> 01:42:28,800 And I am sympathetic to that in some ways. 613 01:42:29,566 --> 01:42:36,766 I will say, like, slogans can also trigger, like, good actions sometimes, you know? 614 01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:37,800 Right. 615 01:42:37,833 --> 01:42:40,366 Like, in lots of... 616 01:42:40,666 --> 01:42:42,300 There's lots of protests for good... 617 01:42:43,133 --> 01:42:44,133 Right. 618 01:42:44,533 --> 01:42:47,533 ...for good causes that use slogans. 619 01:42:48,433 --> 01:42:49,566 I would say... 620 01:42:53,166 --> 01:42:58,433 Again, I'm just, like, poking at, like, how effective is this at what it's 621 01:42:58,566 --> 01:42:59,233 aiming to do? 622 01:42:59,333 --> 01:43:00,333 Because that... 623 01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:08,333 Ultimately, one of my things I will say about any conlang is you can only judge it 624 01:43:08,500 --> 01:43:12,600 by how effective it is at what it's trying to do. 625 01:43:13,166 --> 01:43:18,733 Because people come into this, like, art form, science, whatever, 626 01:43:20,066 --> 01:43:27,100 with a whole lot of different aims and a whole lot of different practices. 627 01:43:29,366 --> 01:43:31,433 And, you know, most... 628 01:43:31,566 --> 01:43:34,600 What I do is artistic. 629 01:43:35,333 --> 01:43:38,899 I am doing it as an art form. 630 01:43:39,233 --> 01:43:43,266 And I also generally aim to make... Like, naturalistic languages. 631 01:43:43,500 --> 01:43:46,500 So this is definitely something that's way 632 01:43:46,500 --> 01:43:50,233 outside my comfort zone to be working with, right? 633 01:43:53,466 --> 01:44:00,833 But, you know, coming around to looking at aUi, the only way I can judge it is kind 634 01:44:00,833 --> 01:44:05,866 of think of, like, what is it aiming to do? 635 01:44:07,800 --> 01:44:11,866 And it seems to be that it's aiming to... 636 01:44:12,233 --> 01:44:13,233 Change... 637 01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:19,233 Change the way people think and communicate in certain specific ways. 638 01:44:19,533 --> 01:44:20,833 And I just kind of ask... 639 01:44:21,233 --> 01:44:25,800 And, you know, neither one of us has, like, much 640 01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:29,133 hard data on, like, how effective it is, right? 641 01:44:29,733 --> 01:44:34,399 And that's one of the things that you want to do is try to get some research involved 642 01:44:34,399 --> 01:44:41,366 to see if it does, like, actually have any effect on thinking. 643 01:44:41,533 --> 01:44:42,533 Right? 644 01:44:42,699 --> 01:44:43,233 Yeah. 645 01:44:43,366 --> 01:44:43,800 And I... 646 01:44:43,899 --> 01:44:45,166 And I have some... Some... 647 01:44:45,566 --> 01:44:48,833 Some examples of things that... I mean, of... 648 01:44:49,066 --> 01:44:51,300 Just of some connections in... 649 01:44:52,233 --> 01:44:55,366 Or at least projects in psycholinguistics 650 01:44:55,366 --> 01:44:58,366 that would be interesting I can mention later. 651 01:44:58,566 --> 01:44:58,766 But... 652 01:44:59,300 --> 01:45:00,033 But, yeah. 653 01:45:00,166 --> 01:45:01,633 Well, you know, I have... 654 01:45:02,033 --> 01:45:06,133 You know, my thinking has, of course, evolved, too. 655 01:45:06,233 --> 01:45:07,533 I mean, this is... 656 01:45:08,133 --> 01:45:09,133 You know, from... 657 01:45:09,533 --> 01:45:12,199 From this overpowering... 658 01:45:13,866 --> 01:45:14,866 Sense that... 659 01:45:15,233 --> 01:45:16,366 That we grew up with. 660 01:45:16,933 --> 01:45:17,933 That... 661 01:45:18,533 --> 01:45:19,533 That... 662 01:45:19,866 --> 01:45:24,166 That, you know, we needed to... 663 01:45:26,666 --> 01:45:32,066 You know, that... That aUi ould be the language for peace through understanding. 664 01:45:32,266 --> 01:45:34,000 And... And... 665 01:45:34,233 --> 01:45:35,233 And... 666 01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:38,800 World wars happen every 30 years, my father said. 667 01:45:39,133 --> 01:45:41,466 And an average throughout history about... 668 01:45:41,466 --> 01:45:44,300 Every generation there are some kind of world wars. 669 01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:45,800 And... 670 01:45:46,899 --> 01:45:48,833 And so he was very... There was a... 671 01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:50,466 There was a lot of... 672 01:45:52,666 --> 01:45:54,699 At least I felt it as a child. 673 01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:01,333 Well, not mandate, but at least pressure to... You know, that... 674 01:46:01,399 --> 01:46:07,533 That if I didn't continue this, it would be... It would be a disaster and so forth. 675 01:46:07,766 --> 01:46:07,933 And... 676 01:46:08,233 --> 01:46:09,399 And... 677 01:46:09,500 --> 01:46:11,533 But anyway, I've... That's why it's take... 678 01:46:11,533 --> 01:46:16,766 I'm just saying that's why it's taken me so long to come to... 679 01:46:16,833 --> 01:46:27,166 To evolve to a more objective viewpoint of aUi and to feel like really ideally it 680 01:46:27,166 --> 01:46:30,366 should be a subject to some kind of research. 681 01:46:30,500 --> 01:46:36,066 And I'm... What I'm saying there, not only in this semantic conditioning types of 682 01:46:36,066 --> 01:46:38,833 experiments, which I haven't been able to 683 01:46:38,833 --> 01:46:41,899 find anything more recent in that direction. 684 01:46:41,933 --> 01:46:42,866 - And... - Yeah. 685 01:46:42,966 --> 01:46:43,566 And... But... 686 01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:50,733 But what we do find more recently is this idea of phonological neighborhood density, 687 01:46:50,933 --> 01:46:58,733 and then semantic mapping, you know, mapping versus phonological mapping of 688 01:46:58,733 --> 01:47:05,600 brain mapping of where our sounds are produced and where the meanings reside. 689 01:47:05,933 --> 01:47:06,933 And... 690 01:47:07,033 --> 01:47:14,066 So that possibly, you know, there could be some research where there... 691 01:47:14,100 --> 01:47:28,066 Whether that activation of and location of phonemes or, well, sounds versus meanings 692 01:47:28,100 --> 01:47:35,166 in the brain, whether if a language like this might have a difference in that. 693 01:47:35,266 --> 01:47:36,633 And I can't... I'm sorry. 694 01:47:36,733 --> 01:47:38,800 I can't explain this to you unless I read it to you. 695 01:47:40,233 --> 01:47:43,966 But there are some papers that I have here loaded up. 696 01:47:44,399 --> 01:47:49,366 But anyway, so that's where I think it's really more... 697 01:47:49,466 --> 01:47:53,666 That's where it's at more for me in a realistic way. 698 01:47:54,333 --> 01:47:54,833 Yeah. 699 01:47:54,866 --> 01:47:55,866 Maybe. 700 01:47:56,366 --> 01:47:56,866 Maybe. 701 01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:57,533 Maybe. 702 01:47:57,533 --> 01:47:57,600 Maybe. 703 01:47:57,666 --> 01:48:01,966 Well, I mean, it may be something worth investigating. 704 01:48:05,066 --> 01:48:10,533 And one thing before, because we're, you know, we're 705 01:48:10,533 --> 01:48:14,566 coming close to the time I usually have for my podcast. 706 01:48:15,033 --> 01:48:19,233 But if we go over that, that's fine. 707 01:48:19,466 --> 01:48:25,399 I will do want to say, like, do you encounter a lot of criticism of, 708 01:48:25,899 --> 01:48:33,466 like, the particular symbols that were chosen for aUi? 709 01:48:33,466 --> 01:48:40,266 Because that, I think, is something that people might, you know, quibble over, 710 01:48:40,333 --> 01:48:46,899 over whether these really are the basic concepts. 711 01:48:47,300 --> 01:48:48,300 Right. 712 01:48:48,666 --> 01:48:50,033 Yeah. 713 01:48:52,333 --> 01:49:03,000 The only corroborating evidence that I can point to is Anna Wierszbicka's NSM, 714 01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:04,433 the Natural Semantic Meta-Language. 715 01:49:05,266 --> 01:49:06,533 Are you familiar? 716 01:49:07,666 --> 01:49:08,666 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 717 01:49:08,699 --> 01:49:10,500 You pointed me to it. 718 01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:13,166 And I think I had seen it before. 719 01:49:13,166 --> 01:49:14,166 Right. 720 01:49:14,533 --> 01:49:16,133 And they're... 721 01:49:17,699 --> 01:49:21,533 They... that's... their goals are different from aUi. 722 01:49:21,766 --> 01:49:27,833 But they are very much along the lines of, you know, finding these... 723 01:49:29,166 --> 01:49:30,433 and finding... 724 01:49:31,066 --> 01:49:35,466 these semantic primes that are, however, lexically 725 01:49:35,466 --> 01:49:38,800 represented in every other language that they studied. 726 01:49:39,066 --> 01:49:40,766 And I think it was about 30 or something. 727 01:49:41,566 --> 01:49:46,566 And so, of the current list of the 65... 728 01:49:47,033 --> 01:49:53,399 I believe it's 65 NSM primes, 29 correspond directly or are closely related 729 01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:54,433 to aUi primes. 730 01:49:54,566 --> 01:49:55,633 That's 44%. 731 01:49:56,600 --> 01:50:09,533 And of the 42 aUi primes, if you include the numerals, these 29 direct or close NSM 732 01:50:09,766 --> 01:50:11,766 primes would amount to 69%. 733 01:50:12,899 --> 01:50:15,399 So there is some corroboration there. 734 01:50:15,733 --> 01:50:18,466 And these have been studied. 735 01:50:18,733 --> 01:50:21,300 And the rest of them, the rest of their... 736 01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:30,733 what they're calling primes can be fairly easily formulated with a few symbols in aUi. 737 01:50:30,866 --> 01:50:32,600 So they're... Yeah. 738 01:50:32,899 --> 01:50:33,899 So... 739 01:50:34,833 --> 01:50:35,833 That's... 740 01:50:37,533 --> 01:50:39,133 That's what... Yeah. 741 01:50:39,199 --> 01:50:39,366 Yeah. 742 01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:41,266 And I... I... You... 743 01:50:41,366 --> 01:50:42,066 There... 744 01:50:42,233 --> 01:50:43,833 There's definitely a... 745 01:50:45,966 --> 01:50:48,300 An attempt at economy that, you know, some people 746 01:50:48,333 --> 01:50:50,866 that are looking for semantic primes might... 747 01:50:51,899 --> 01:50:53,166 might object to... 748 01:50:53,366 --> 01:50:55,133 Because, like, you have... 749 01:50:55,533 --> 01:50:56,533 You have a word for good. 750 01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:57,933 You don't have a word for bad. 751 01:50:58,033 --> 01:50:59,433 I presume that you would just... 752 01:50:59,833 --> 01:51:04,466 combine negation with good in order to get the word for bad, right? 753 01:51:05,266 --> 01:51:08,066 And similarly, you don't have below. 754 01:51:08,166 --> 01:51:09,199 You only have above. 755 01:51:09,533 --> 01:51:10,533 But... 756 01:51:15,066 --> 01:51:16,666 I do have... 757 01:51:19,100 --> 01:51:23,899 my own skepticism that there even is a universal... 758 01:51:25,633 --> 01:51:26,633 set of... 759 01:51:27,066 --> 01:51:28,199 of semantic primes. 760 01:51:28,399 --> 01:51:29,500 I... That's... 761 01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:35,566 That's not to say that we don't have meanings in common as humans across languages. 762 01:51:35,733 --> 01:51:36,733 It's just... 763 01:51:37,233 --> 01:51:37,633 That... 764 01:51:37,933 --> 01:51:42,733 That is definitely a given since we are all human. 765 01:51:42,766 --> 01:51:47,100 And so there are certain experiences that we have in common. 766 01:51:48,166 --> 01:51:54,466 But, like, exactly how that is instantiates in different languages 767 01:51:54,733 --> 01:51:58,433 and whether semantic primes are, like, an inbuilt thing versus... 768 01:51:58,433 --> 01:52:03,266 just, like, something that happened by happenstance is a question. 769 01:52:03,433 --> 01:52:04,100 But... 770 01:52:04,199 --> 01:52:06,533 it is... it is interesting... 771 01:52:06,933 --> 01:52:08,333 it is interesting that... 772 01:52:09,933 --> 01:52:10,600 some... 773 01:52:10,899 --> 01:52:17,500 some portion of the symbols in aUi are similar to other things that other people 774 01:52:17,500 --> 01:52:21,433 have determined to be semantic primes on... 775 01:52:21,666 --> 01:52:22,699 based on other research. 776 01:52:22,866 --> 01:52:24,000 That is interesting. 777 01:52:24,733 --> 01:52:28,966 And... it... probably goes to... 778 01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:35,600 like, the process your father went through and the quality of... of that... 779 01:52:35,933 --> 01:52:42,399 that work in actually drilling down and trying to find these basic concepts as... 780 01:52:43,033 --> 01:52:44,033 as well as he could. 781 01:52:44,233 --> 01:52:45,399 I... I... 782 01:52:45,433 --> 01:52:55,233 I view aUi as a very interesting experiment in what language could be. 783 01:52:56,300 --> 01:53:00,333 Um... just like a lot of other... 784 01:53:00,966 --> 01:53:02,733 sort of experimental... 785 01:53:03,633 --> 01:53:04,800 uh... just... 786 01:53:04,899 --> 01:53:08,033 just like a lot of other engineered languages that are out there. 787 01:53:08,733 --> 01:53:10,800 Um... whether they... 788 01:53:11,833 --> 01:53:14,800 go into... like... class... 789 01:53:15,066 --> 01:53:16,133 classification... 790 01:53:16,733 --> 01:53:20,800 or... this oligosynthetic route like aUi does... 791 01:53:20,899 --> 01:53:22,866 or... um... 792 01:53:23,366 --> 01:53:24,433 Toki Pona is... is... 793 01:53:24,566 --> 01:53:25,566 is similar... 794 01:53:25,733 --> 01:53:31,366 in that it has a very reduced set of lexemes that are used. 795 01:53:31,600 --> 01:53:32,600 Um... 796 01:53:33,266 --> 01:53:40,166 or... if they just have like radically different ways of forming words and sentences. 797 01:53:40,399 --> 01:53:41,399 Um... 798 01:53:41,933 --> 01:53:43,233 I... I... I... 799 01:53:43,366 --> 01:53:44,600 I only want to... 800 01:53:44,766 --> 01:53:47,366 to poke at things just because I... I... I... 801 01:53:47,699 --> 01:53:50,366 I look at the... the website and I see some... 802 01:53:50,399 --> 01:53:52,100 some claims that I just want to... 803 01:53:52,266 --> 01:53:54,000 I just want to... as... 804 01:53:54,199 --> 01:53:56,699 as a linguist... want to like... poke at them. 805 01:53:56,733 --> 01:53:57,466 I'm like... Mm... 806 01:53:57,533 --> 01:53:58,533 Is this... 807 01:53:58,733 --> 01:54:01,133 is this really doing what is... 808 01:54:01,266 --> 01:54:02,366 what is being claimed here? 809 01:54:02,433 --> 01:54:05,266 Well... and... And... Uh... We... the... uh... our... 810 01:54:05,533 --> 01:54:07,899 our process of website is... 811 01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:10,366 is... has been kind of a... 812 01:54:11,199 --> 01:54:12,199 quite a... 813 01:54:12,466 --> 01:54:13,500 quite a process itself. 814 01:54:13,833 --> 01:54:14,566 And... and I've... 815 01:54:14,766 --> 01:54:18,600 This is now the third website that... we... And I... the... 816 01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:21,300 we are finally back to WordPress site. 817 01:54:21,699 --> 01:54:22,333 And... 818 01:54:22,466 --> 01:54:28,399 And with the idea that we can, I can now edit that more easily myself. 819 01:54:28,933 --> 01:54:32,866 And so I will be making changes on that. 820 01:54:33,233 --> 01:54:38,766 Because I mean, I'm learning, you know, I'm, I am learning 821 01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:43,533 all the time about what, what is safe to say and what is not. 822 01:54:43,833 --> 01:54:49,600 And I mean, it's, it's I, but you know, coming where I come from, it's, 823 01:54:49,733 --> 01:54:55,233 it's been a long process to find that objectivity. 824 01:54:55,500 --> 01:55:04,899 And one of the things that, that are, are kind of, that I found interesting from 825 01:55:04,933 --> 01:55:14,933 this, Umberto Eco's book here, about the, the idea that they said here, 826 01:55:15,199 --> 01:55:23,466 the, the, the, let's see, the above notions. 827 01:55:24,466 --> 01:55:25,566 Let's see, let me see here. 828 01:55:26,966 --> 01:55:31,666 The above notions are not irrelevant to our inquiry, because as we shall see many 829 01:55:31,666 --> 01:55:35,733 perfect languages, at least the philosophical ones, as quote 830 01:55:35,766 --> 01:55:41,733 philosophical, or quote perfect, aspired to such a conformal status, 831 01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:46,566 they considered both double articulation and the nonconformal relationship as a 832 01:55:46,566 --> 01:55:52,733 source of potential ambiguity, and try to assign a precise content to every sound. 833 01:55:52,833 --> 01:56:03,066 So this, this, this duality of patterning, or double articulation, where you have on 834 01:56:03,066 --> 01:56:09,199 one sense, a, on the one side, you have the morphemes, the lexemes and 835 01:56:09,199 --> 01:56:11,833 morphemes that are meaningful, but the phonemes are not. 836 01:56:13,366 --> 01:56:18,733 And, and so the whole idea of, of making a connection to reality is to 837 01:56:18,866 --> 01:56:26,199 bring those, to make a connection with, with reality. 838 01:56:26,633 --> 01:56:27,633 Right? 839 01:56:27,899 --> 01:56:28,899 And, yeah. 840 01:56:29,133 --> 01:56:37,100 So the whole question is, is that something that is of usefulness? 841 01:56:37,399 --> 01:56:40,366 Is that, is that something that worth striving for? 842 01:56:42,266 --> 01:56:50,266 And, and it's, it's, it's worth asking the question, I think, my, my own thought is 843 01:56:50,266 --> 01:56:54,000 that, I think, my, my own thought is that, human 844 01:56:54,000 --> 01:56:58,666 languages evolved the way they did for reasons. 845 01:56:58,699 --> 01:57:01,000 That doesn't mean that they're perfect. 846 01:57:01,233 --> 01:57:05,833 That doesn't mean that there's not potentially some way to improve upon them. 847 01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:15,300 But we have to understand that they evolved in this way 848 01:57:15,333 --> 01:57:19,800 because of our history as a species. 849 01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:20,600 Because of our history as a species. 850 01:57:20,600 --> 01:57:27,666 And because of our particular instincts and how they build into language, right? 851 01:57:28,066 --> 01:57:33,733 So, when we look at... when I look at something like aUi, I'm like, it's 852 01:57:33,766 --> 01:57:37,300 definitely worth asking the question whether this could be something better. 853 01:57:38,066 --> 01:57:43,899 Whether it is, I still will have some skepticism unless I see, like, 854 01:57:44,466 --> 01:57:49,333 you know, people using it and see actual, like, effects from it, right? 855 01:57:49,766 --> 01:57:54,366 And, yeah, and I would say, though, that evolution of language is not the same 856 01:57:54,500 --> 01:57:57,366 thing as evolution of our biological evolution. 857 01:57:57,666 --> 01:58:04,000 So, I mean, it's not like we're evolving, like, survival of the fittest kind of 858 01:58:04,533 --> 01:58:10,666 thing, that if it's more, if you survive, then that language is, therefore, 859 01:58:10,766 --> 01:58:15,933 more improved than the language before that or whatever. 860 01:58:16,366 --> 01:58:17,233 I don't know. 861 01:58:17,366 --> 01:58:17,966 I don't know. 862 01:58:17,966 --> 01:58:18,966 I don't know if... 863 01:58:19,533 --> 01:58:22,133 Those are two types of evolution. 864 01:58:22,366 --> 01:58:23,366 I don't... yeah. 865 01:58:25,500 --> 01:58:31,500 Well, I would say... so, it is a little complicated because language is also 866 01:58:31,500 --> 01:58:36,133 shaped more by social forces than by other things. 867 01:58:36,333 --> 01:58:43,399 I will say that, like, a language that would not be useful 868 01:58:43,399 --> 01:58:49,033 for humans to use to communicate would probably not survive. 869 01:58:49,766 --> 01:58:52,666 Would not... probably not be passed on. 870 01:58:53,000 --> 01:59:00,600 So, there are some things that are similar to biological evolution, but at the same 871 01:59:00,600 --> 01:59:08,100 time, there's a lot of external forces on languages that make it... do make it a 872 01:59:08,100 --> 01:59:15,233 little bit less survival of the fittest because there's so many effects from 873 01:59:15,866 --> 01:59:17,433 politics and... 874 01:59:18,833 --> 01:59:21,233 Social dominance and things like that that affect it. 875 01:59:23,066 --> 01:59:33,966 But we're... this... we're coming up on time and it's getting a bit late because 876 01:59:34,100 --> 01:59:42,100 of when we had to do this recording, but I will leave it to you, Andrea. 877 01:59:42,233 --> 01:59:47,500 Do you have any final thoughts you want to share before we end the show? 878 01:59:47,833 --> 01:59:48,800 Can you... can I... 879 01:59:48,833 --> 01:59:53,633 Can I still show this... my... the... the word kind 880 01:59:53,633 --> 01:59:57,766 of... it's a... it's kind of a word progression. 881 01:59:58,166 --> 01:59:59,166 Yeah, sure. 882 01:59:59,266 --> 02:00:01,166 Let's... let's... let's go through that quickly. 883 02:00:01,300 --> 02:00:01,766 You... yeah. 884 02:00:02,300 --> 02:00:02,866 Yeah. 885 02:00:03,033 --> 02:00:03,433 Yeah. 886 02:00:03,500 --> 02:00:04,866 So, here we have i. 887 02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:06,600 That's our light symbol. 888 02:00:06,766 --> 02:00:08,500 Can you see the cursor too? 889 02:00:08,866 --> 02:00:09,433 Yeah. 890 02:00:09,533 --> 02:00:09,766 Yeah. 891 02:00:09,866 --> 02:00:10,300 Yeah. 892 02:00:10,733 --> 02:00:15,266 So, i and then iv is... is the action ending. 893 02:00:15,899 --> 02:00:19,199 So... so, we have light and then iv makes it... it makes it a verb. 894 02:00:19,800 --> 02:00:27,800 To shine or to... or light as a... and iOv is a feeling or sense... a sensation. 895 02:00:27,866 --> 02:00:37,733 So, when we sense light, iOv, we see, and then tiOv towards seeing might be a word 896 02:00:37,866 --> 02:00:44,500 for look... to look and AtiOv... then might be with time. 897 02:00:44,566 --> 02:00:48,100 If you spend time looking might be the word for watch. 898 02:00:48,100 --> 02:00:48,399 To watch. 899 02:00:48,399 --> 02:00:49,399 To watch. 900 02:00:50,033 --> 02:00:56,399 And so you have i, iv, iOv, tiOv, atiOv 901 02:00:57,600 --> 02:01:01,000 And viv, you can make it a causative. 902 02:01:01,266 --> 02:01:07,699 So to make shine might be, or to make light might be, would be, you know, 903 02:01:07,800 --> 02:01:08,800 to turn on the light. 904 02:01:10,199 --> 02:01:14,233 viOv, to make see, would be to show. 905 02:01:14,666 --> 02:01:15,733 Here, viOv. 906 02:01:16,733 --> 02:01:18,500 And here, just another example. 907 02:01:19,466 --> 02:01:21,366 So inside, g. 908 02:01:21,733 --> 02:01:27,033 And Uv is mind, verb is to think. 909 02:01:28,100 --> 02:01:33,766 So gUv is, what's inside the mind is knowledge. 910 02:01:33,899 --> 02:01:36,866 And we're, you know, we're talking, we're talking 911 02:01:36,866 --> 02:01:41,300 in conceptual and in partly metaphorical sense too. 912 02:01:41,633 --> 02:01:46,000 So gUv, to know, the verb for knowledge, to know. 913 02:01:46,166 --> 02:01:54,533 And then etgUV, movement towards knowing, would be to study. 914 02:01:55,233 --> 02:02:02,033 And then vetgUv, to make study, is a word for teach. 915 02:02:02,800 --> 02:02:08,533 And retgUv, to learn, to study. 916 02:02:08,566 --> 02:02:12,366 well is the word for to learn. 917 02:02:13,466 --> 02:02:20,166 So there you can, Uv, gUv, etgUv, vetgUv, retgUv 918 02:02:20,966 --> 02:02:26,666 So, and I have a lot more examples here of how to make distinctions with, 919 02:02:26,933 --> 02:02:31,833 with, you know, with quite, you can, I mean, to me, it is always amazing that 920 02:02:31,833 --> 02:02:38,266 you can make quite, quite detailed distinctions. 921 02:02:38,633 --> 02:02:40,466 And just by adding a few symbols. 922 02:02:41,166 --> 02:02:49,333 But it, but it is also a, there is a, a, a way of understanding the, 923 02:02:49,833 --> 02:02:57,266 the aUi symbols, or the, the, the words, the, the formulations that, that, 924 02:02:57,666 --> 02:03:01,666 that is, that does take some learning. 925 02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:08,866 And that is based not only on kind of on intuitive logic. 926 02:03:09,233 --> 02:03:17,433 But also, on metaphor, and also, there is also some idiomaticity. 927 02:03:18,199 --> 02:03:18,500 Right. 928 02:03:18,966 --> 02:03:19,966 Is that the word? 929 02:03:20,033 --> 02:03:20,199 Right. 930 02:03:20,466 --> 02:03:28,100 That's what I am seeing, too, is that you still have to rely on metaphors, 931 02:03:28,733 --> 02:03:30,433 especially for more abstract things. 932 02:03:30,433 --> 02:03:32,199 That's how language works. 933 02:03:32,399 --> 02:03:37,566 I mean, I don't know that it's that different. 934 02:03:37,666 --> 02:03:40,000 It relies on those kinds of languages. 935 02:03:40,233 --> 02:03:41,233 Yeah. 936 02:03:41,433 --> 02:03:48,466 But it is really interesting, and it is interesting how you could have so few 937 02:03:48,466 --> 02:03:54,199 symbols and arrange them into meaningful words. 938 02:03:54,666 --> 02:03:59,166 And that, I think, is also going to be useful. 939 02:03:59,600 --> 02:03:59,899 Right. 940 02:04:00,266 --> 02:04:08,366 I think that's also a reason for conlangers to look at aUi as inspiration, 941 02:04:08,433 --> 02:04:13,266 just to, like, have an idea of, like, how much 942 02:04:13,266 --> 02:04:18,100 you can get out of this small number of roots. 943 02:04:18,366 --> 02:04:19,366 Right. 944 02:04:20,666 --> 02:04:25,100 But, yeah, it's definitely been a pleasure talking to you, Andrea. 945 02:04:26,000 --> 02:04:30,199 And I did enjoy our talk. 946 02:04:30,300 --> 02:04:36,000 I hope I wasn't too strong on my pushing back on a few things. 947 02:04:36,399 --> 02:04:40,933 Well, I thank you for that additional time that I had 948 02:04:40,933 --> 02:04:46,233 to prepare, because it's definitely a learning process. 949 02:04:46,333 --> 02:04:48,966 I do have to mention my book that is based on aUi. 950 02:04:49,533 --> 02:04:51,466 So that is available on the website. 951 02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:56,566 It's a novel, and it's based on aUi, and it talks about... it carries the idea 952 02:04:56,566 --> 02:04:59,366 of slogans to an extreme, kind of almost a farce. 953 02:04:59,966 --> 02:05:02,266 But it's also... and it's also based on that 954 02:05:02,266 --> 02:05:04,633 research, that semantic conditioning research. 955 02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:09,733 So I think it's quite... I think it's interesting, so... 956 02:05:10,066 --> 02:05:14,133 Well, yeah, you guys... and I can link to that 957 02:05:14,133 --> 02:05:18,333 as well, if people want to check out that book. 958 02:05:18,466 --> 02:05:20,566 But thank you, Andrea. 959 02:05:21,066 --> 02:05:22,800 It's been a pleasure having you on. 960 02:05:22,899 --> 02:05:29,366 And it's really great to have someone connected to a language that I'd heard about. 961 02:05:29,366 --> 02:05:31,500 I've heard about for decades, right? 962 02:05:33,166 --> 02:05:38,100 And have you on and talk a little bit about the philosophy behind it. 963 02:05:38,233 --> 02:05:42,233 But thank you for being on, and thank you, 964 02:05:42,233 --> 02:05:46,466 everyone, for listening, and happy conlanging. 965 02:05:47,133 --> 02:05:48,133 Thanks so much. 966 02:05:49,666 --> 02:05:51,333 Thank you for listening to Conlangery. 967 02:05:51,766 --> 02:05:54,433 You can find archives and show notes at conlangery.com. 968 02:05:55,133 --> 02:05:56,733 And if you'd like to support the show, the 969 02:05:56,733 --> 02:05:59,500 best way to do that is to go to our Patreon. 970 02:05:59,866 --> 02:06:02,100 at patreon.com/conlangery. 971 02:06:02,566 --> 02:06:04,600 With just a dollar, you can get access to 972 02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:08,100 exclusive polls for my Tongues and Runes series. 973 02:06:08,466 --> 02:06:15,033 And also, for $5, you can get every podcast episode early and ad-free. 974 02:06:16,133 --> 02:06:18,100 And now to thank our patrons... 975 02:06:18,600 --> 02:06:27,566 Mintaka, Kenan Kigunda, Connor Stuart Rowe, Jesse, Kaye, Alex Rossell Hayes, Vyren Patrick 976 02:06:27,633 --> 02:06:34,600 Tabby, Alexis Hugelmann Sylvia Sotomayor, Grammar Antifa, Grakka 977 02:06:34,633 --> 02:06:42,033 Grunk, Sigourney Hunter, iloivar Jaana Mentuleum, Niklas Norblad, Anthony Docimo 978 02:06:42,500 --> 02:06:48,633 Jake Penny, Artifexian, Miles Wronkovich, Daniel Quigley, Paul 979 02:06:48,666 --> 02:06:55,600 Roser, our table, Langwyrm, nai, and Horn Bori. Thank you. 980 02:06:56,433 --> 02:06:59,966 Conlangery's theme music is by Null Device. 981 02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:06,333 Conlangerie is distributed under a Creative Commons Attribution Non 982 02:07:06,333 --> 02:07:10,666 -Commercial Share Alike 4.0 International License.