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Hi there, I was just going to
point out before this started.

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I actually recorded this
episode back in April.

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But because there were some audio issues

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and also because I
got distracted with other

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projects, it took a
while to get it out, but.

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I hope that you will still enjoy it.

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There's still a little bit
of audio futziness, but.

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Hopefully I have made
it much more listenable.

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Thank you.

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Welcome to Conlangery,
the podcast about

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constructed languages and
the people who create them.

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I'm George Corley and with me.

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Where are you, Carl?

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I'm in Pennsylvania.

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Yeah.

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So in Pennsylvania, we have
Carl Buck, who is the co-creator of

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Sangheili and someone who is known
in the conlanging community.

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So I brought you on mostly
talking about Sangheili for the Halo

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series, which is on Paramount+,
but also just generally about conlanging.

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I know that
you are into like scripts and things.

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Yeah.

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Writing systems has been one of
my key interests in the conlanging

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pursuits that I've undertaken, but I
do enjoy conlanging in general.

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Yeah.

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Can you just at first introduce yourself
and like how you got into conlanging?

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 Sure.

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So as you mentioned, my name is Carl Buck,

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and I currently live in Pennsylvania.

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Many years ago, when
I was around nine years

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old, I received a book
on codes and ciphers.

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This may come as a
surprise to some folks, but

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that was before the
internet was really a thing.

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So I began to develop interest in codes,
ciphers, cryptography is the academic term.

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As I pursued this, I began to
learn about Arabic and Chinese.

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I got a Chinese dictionary when
I was just a couple years older,

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about 11 or so, and I became
fascinated with the Hanzi of the

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Chinese writing system,
logograms, ideograms, etc.

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With that interest became a
lifelong pursuit in understanding, not

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just languages and linguistics,
but how writing systems work,

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mainly based on
my fascination with Chinese.

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And that led to several pursuits
of languages on my own, as well

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as joining several online communities and
exploring those interests through those.

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Well, that's, that's great.

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And how is it that you, so you,
you collaborated with David Peterson

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on the Sangheili language.

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How did you get involved with Halo?

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Well, prior to 2019, I didn't
really have any involvement.

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David was hired by the
studio to produce the language.

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He wanted someone to
collaborate with because

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his knowledge of Halo,
as he put it, was minimal.

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He put out an announcement via
Twitter or the site only known as Twitter.

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I, I responded to that announcement.

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I showed him some of my work.

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We spoke on the phone once and
then a second time about a week

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later, and he had narrowed it
down to three people by that time.

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He chose me, I think, primarily
because of my military experience.

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I served in the army from 1996 to 2002.

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I think the fact that I had that
military experience is what one

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of the primary reasons he chose me
because Halo is a very militaristic game.

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It's, you know, first-person
shooter kind of game.

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And I think he was looking
for some of that insight into into

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the language to add some of that to the
language and we did during the process.

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We talked about certain warrior
concepts or warrior culture that

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exists and we implemented a lot of
that into some of our language creation.

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Yeah, and that's that is a big
part of the world building and

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like the scenarios of
the game and the show.

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I don't know like how far
into like political thing, but like

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the political world building the
game itself goes into because

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I only played like a tiny bit of
Halo when I was younger, but

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like, but like watching the
show through that it's all about

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this, this war between humanity
and the Covenant, which is that

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yeah, which you created the
language for the Covenant.

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And like the humans
have sort of fallen into sort

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of like a fascist
dictatorship kind of thing.

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And then the the Covenant
are religious zealots

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with it seems like
it's multiple species.

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-It is.
-That take different combat roles.

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-Yeah
-It is.

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And when we were first when
we were first working on the

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development side, one of the
questions that we took back to

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the studio was are we
making only one or are we

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going to contribute any
to the varied species?

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Because when you get into
the lore of the games, there are

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multiple species involved and
we were told pretty well, you

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know, this is supposed
to be sort of the Covenant's

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language sort of a lingua
franca for the Covenant.

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It doesn't belong
necessarily to one species

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or another as far as
the show is concerned.

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So it was more or less just
give us one good language that

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we can use amongst the species because the
Elites and then the council they speak it.

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So yeah.

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Was was there a like
a concern in the design process

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of like making sure this would
be a language that all of these

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different species could speak
because like physiologically

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the the Elites and the Prophets
and the the Grunts, they're

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all pretty different
and also pretty different

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in how their mouth
parts are structured.

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That is exactly.

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Yeah.

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No, you're exactly right.

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And that's an excellent question.

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So when we were going when
we were having the conversations

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with the studio, David took it upon
himself to draw some pictures

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of the Elites' mandibles
and their facial structure.

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The physiological question
was one of our primary questions.

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And if you look at some of the
grammar that we included most

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especially the instrumentals,
we focused on the Elites because

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I don't know if you've been
paying attention, but in the

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show, you actually see the
elites speak it more than anyone

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else save for maybe one of the
council members when they're

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talking back and forth to Makee
and if you really keep tabs,

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she's the one the human
is the one who speaks it the

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most out of everybody
that speaks it on the show.

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I think that's partly due to
Charlie Murphy's skill but also

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due to the writers and
producers wanting to focus

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on her and her interaction
with the Covenant.

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I don't know.

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That's my guess based on watching the show.

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But know the mandibles thing.

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We really took that into account.

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And if you look at the grammar,
there's an aspect of certainty.

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And so we say they're using
the upper mandible to do X verb.

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That means they're doing
that verb with a level of certainty.

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If they're using their lower
mandible to do X verb, then

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they're doing it with a
certain level of uncertainty.

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And so we did we we focused on the Elites.

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Okay, but you didn't
really seem to be doing

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like too much like
phonologically different.

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Where was that anything?

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Concerning in terms of the different
structures that the species have?

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So the phonology
and the initial sort of set

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of phonemes that we started to work with
was based on the producers preferences.

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David and I sat down
and we made some nonce phrase.

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They didn't mean anything but
we made them with varying levels

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of alienness I guess would
be the term that you know, the

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most alien being the hardest
for a human to produce and not

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have to drink a glass of water
right after and then the you

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know, the least least alien
sounding sounding almost like

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Japanese right sounding like
made up Japanese almost so that

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I think there were like five
or six different levels, maybe

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more and then they chose one
of those levels and said that's

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where we want it and it was almost
dead middle dead center of those choices.

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And so the phonological choices
were pretty much directed by

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the producers and showrunners

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based on the level of alienness
that they wanted it to sound like

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Yeah, so we talked a little bit
about the sound let's actually

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hear it and then also speaking
of Makee like our introduction

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of the language is her speak
to the language is her speaking

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to one of the council members.
You hear a little bit in the

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first battle of Elites saying
specific words, but it's like

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heavily modulated voices, but
here you actually get a pretty

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significant conversation.

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Jan mosik'weya.

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Ch'intan ch'adomo o -Ghashank'o zhi tkhaacho- tkha t'iyaq'ujen. K'e me mos ba.

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Okay.

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So there they're talking about.

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This this artifact on on this
planet and what happened to

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it and there's there's a
few different but you're right.

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This the actress playing
Makee is actually very talented in

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in the language and you can
I believe her backstory is like

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she was raised mostly she spent most
of her life with the Covenant, right?

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That's my yeah, that's
my understanding as well.

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And she's kind of half half
raised by them, but also very

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human, but I don't know like some
of the some of the lore escapes me.

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I've watched the
show, but I it's kind of

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sometimes difficult to
read between the lines.

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I think yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I I don't want to like
spoil too much about.

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- Sure, no, I get it.
- Stuff that happens as you go into the show.

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It was interesting to see
that and also there is I

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noticed that apparently
there's a word for Spartan.

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Which if people don't know
halo the Spartans are like super

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soldier Space Marines
and the main character of

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the games Master Chief
is one of the Spartans.

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He's been like genetically
enhanced and he wears power armor

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and he's a giant dude who can
handle giant weapons and and

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stuff like that, but like they
have a word for Spartan and

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then they they have a word that
mean that's being translated as "demon".

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Is that like a derogatory
term for Spartans or is it

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specifically directed
toward Master Chief or what?

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00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:06,500
My understanding is when we
made the word we were it was

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if I remember correctly the
script just wanted us to refer

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to him as "Demon" and it was initially
directed at Master Chief individually.

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That word is Ghashank'o and it
just means demon and then the

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word that refers to
humans, domo, and that is

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pretty important because
it goes back to the game.

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So one of the things one of
the requests when we were first

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developing this was to keep as
much of the game conversation

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or or lingo as we
could and so one of the

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interesting things is the
verb to go in the game.

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You'll hear the Elites chant
"Wart wart wart" so we made the

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verb "to go" warut'o that and
so so that when they're speaking

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quickly, it sounds like
they're saying "wart". Warut'a warut'a.

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But it keeps with the with the
phonology that we created as

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well without being too far outside
the lines there and then don't know.

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We just made domo mean human
because that's in the game as well.

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Okay.

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00:14:25,701 --> 00:14:30,400
Yeah, where did the Sangheili come from?

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00:14:30,401 --> 00:14:33,500
Is that in the game or they just
called Covenant in the game?

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00:14:34,733 --> 00:14:36,800
You know, I never actually played the game.

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00:14:36,801 --> 00:14:40,400
My son did my son played
multiple iterations of it.

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00:14:40,401 --> 00:14:45,120
I can't really say I think
it comes from the game lore,

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00:14:45,121 --> 00:14:49,200
but it's it's just
Greek or Greek or Latin.

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00:14:49,201 --> 00:14:52,200
It means blood blood sun, so...

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00:14:52,201 --> 00:14:52,900
Oh, okay.

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00:14:52,901 --> 00:14:53,800
Yeah.

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00:14:54,778 --> 00:14:57,200
Sanghelios, you know.

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00:14:57,201 --> 00:14:58,700
Oh, okay.

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00:14:58,701 --> 00:15:01,300
That's that's interesting.

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00:15:01,301 --> 00:15:06,200
And I know that there I know
that there are some like biblical

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00:15:06,201 --> 00:15:09,800
references in the in the
game and stuff that surround

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00:15:09,801 --> 00:15:13,700
the Covenant and and
and stuff like that.

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00:15:13,725 --> 00:15:17,824
One thing I noted what I was
watching and I want to know if

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00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:23,100
like it factored into the
design process at all was

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that there are multiple human
languages. In season one,

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00:15:28,701 --> 00:15:33,358
we get significant Korean
and Hungarian dialogue.

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00:15:33,453 --> 00:15:35,100
Right, I noticed that myself.

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00:15:35,101 --> 00:15:37,300
Yeah, and then season two.

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00:15:37,301 --> 00:15:38,400
There's a little bit of Spanish.

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00:15:38,401 --> 00:15:42,500
Was there a conversation about
like what human languages would

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00:15:42,501 --> 00:15:47,000
be represented and trying to
make sure that Sangheili would

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be different from those and
distinguishable or?

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00:15:51,649 --> 00:15:57,200
I can't say that I was part of those
conversations what I what I can

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00:15:57,201 --> 00:16:01,600
say is whenever I reviewed a
script because one of the things

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00:16:01,601 --> 00:16:05,100
that I was doing is I was taking
the pieces of the script that

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00:16:05,101 --> 00:16:08,400
belonged to us that we were
supposed to translate and putting

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00:16:08,401 --> 00:16:11,100
them together so that we
would have a working document.

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00:16:11,101 --> 00:16:16,356
I didn't see anything that was
written out in Hungarian or Korean.

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00:16:16,357 --> 00:16:19,300
My guess is what they
did is they wrote the entire

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00:16:19,301 --> 00:16:22,900
script in English and then
they would just point to the actor

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00:16:22,901 --> 00:16:25,800
or actress that was supposed
to speak those lines in those

234
00:16:25,801 --> 00:16:29,300
languages and say this is for you to
speak in Korean or what have you.

235
00:16:29,301 --> 00:16:31,100
But again, I wasn't part.

236
00:16:31,101 --> 00:16:32,200
I wasn't privy to that.

237
00:16:32,201 --> 00:16:36,100
I don't think I don't think it
really reflects that much because

238
00:16:36,101 --> 00:16:39,600
none of the languages spoken
had, you know, the the ejectives.

239
00:16:39,601 --> 00:16:40,400
Yeah.

240
00:16:40,401 --> 00:16:41,401
Yeah.

241
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,000
That's one thing is like you
had ejectives in Sangheili which

242
00:16:47,001 --> 00:16:51,800
definitely contrasted with you
didn't end up having any human

243
00:16:51,801 --> 00:16:55,100
languages that have
ejectives in there, but you now.

244
00:16:55,101 --> 00:16:57,700
It might the series might go on.

245
00:16:57,701 --> 00:16:59,433
So who knows? (laugh)

246
00:16:59,458 --> 00:17:00,500
No, you're right.

247
00:17:00,501 --> 00:17:05,400
No, the closest thing grammatically
would be I guess the Hungarian

248
00:17:05,401 --> 00:17:09,510
based on you know, it
being agglutinative much

249
00:17:09,511 --> 00:17:12,700
like Sangheili is with
the verbal structure.

250
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,500
Because our verbs can get quite long.

251
00:17:14,501 --> 00:17:17,700
So I think that's probably
the only comparative point.

252
00:17:17,701 --> 00:17:19,908
I would say.

253
00:17:20,208 --> 00:17:23,100
Yeah, but it wasn't it
wasn't really a factor.

254
00:17:23,101 --> 00:17:24,200
No, not much.

255
00:17:24,201 --> 00:17:26,200
You were just translating
the Sangheili lines.

256
00:17:28,181 --> 00:17:32,381
So they they kind of selected
what the phonology would be.

257
00:17:33,228 --> 00:17:37,300
Yeah, based on based on a
set of parameters that David and

258
00:17:37,301 --> 00:17:42,400
I worked out because the one
of the guidelines they gave us is

259
00:17:42,401 --> 00:17:47,000
they wanted the overall structure
of the words to be Japanese

260
00:17:47,001 --> 00:17:53,800
like, you know, the sort of
the open syllable situation with

261
00:17:53,801 --> 00:17:59,800
very few codas involved and
we even though we included three

262
00:17:59,801 --> 00:18:05,000
codas /ɪn/ /əŋ/ and /əs/ we
didn't utilize them that much.

263
00:18:05,001 --> 00:18:09,400
We we kind of veered away from
them because they wanted this

264
00:18:09,401 --> 00:18:14,900
open syllable type and I think
the I please don't quote me on

265
00:18:14,901 --> 00:18:18,100
this because I could be
misremembering but I think the original

266
00:18:18,101 --> 00:18:21,700
company that owned the game and developed
the game was in fact Japanese company.

267
00:18:21,701 --> 00:18:26,700
And that's one of the that was
one of the reasons behind it.

268
00:18:26,701 --> 00:18:32,300
Also during my research because
I was tasked with researching

269
00:18:32,301 --> 00:18:35,736
a lot of the lore of the
video games and some of

270
00:18:35,737 --> 00:18:38,600
the background behind
where does "domo" come from?

271
00:18:38,601 --> 00:18:40,700
Where does "wart" come from all that stuff?

272
00:18:40,701 --> 00:18:46,100
I found out and this is very interesting
that in the original video games.

273
00:18:46,101 --> 00:18:51,700
I think the first two or first
three maybe the the speaking

274
00:18:51,701 --> 00:18:54,594
that you hear from
the Elites is actually

275
00:18:54,619 --> 00:18:58,700
Japanese recorded played
backwards and sped up.

276
00:18:59,501 --> 00:19:00,800
Wow.

277
00:19:00,801 --> 00:19:05,600
Yeah, so a little bit of trivia
for everybody on those games.

278
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,900
The original language you
hear is in fact Japanese reversed

279
00:19:09,901 --> 00:19:14,200
and sped up and so they kind
of wanted us to sort of go that

280
00:19:14,201 --> 00:19:18,700
route and so we gave them
like I told you a minute ago the

281
00:19:18,701 --> 00:19:23,300
alienness factor increased but with a
sort of a Japanese structure involved.

282
00:19:23,301 --> 00:19:24,200
Yeah.

283
00:19:24,201 --> 00:19:27,400
Well, it definitely doesn't
sound like Japanese anymore.

284
00:19:27,401 --> 00:19:33,401
No and part of that part of that was a
little bit of David and a little bit of me.

285
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:41,000
I don't think David would be I don't think
he would avoid answering this question.

286
00:19:41,001 --> 00:19:45,000
The process was a lot of go
look at the script see what we

287
00:19:45,001 --> 00:19:50,300
need to do and then make us
a bank of words to choose from

288
00:19:50,301 --> 00:19:56,400
that we can if we don't have
the definition yet go make some

289
00:19:56,401 --> 00:19:59,700
words that fit the phonology
that we might implement for

290
00:19:59,701 --> 00:20:04,400
those those meanings and
those definitions and so I wouldn't

291
00:20:04,401 --> 00:20:08,200
say I went out of my way to
avoid the Japaneseness, but I

292
00:20:08,201 --> 00:20:13,200
definitely made a point in some
of the selections to veer away

293
00:20:13,201 --> 00:20:17,600
from the Japaneseness because
when you put the words together and

294
00:20:17,601 --> 00:20:19,700
you make your sentences and
you're making sure your syntax

295
00:20:19,701 --> 00:20:22,600
goes well together, you
know, you can kind of reverse

296
00:20:22,601 --> 00:20:26,700
engineer it and go back and
maybe change one of the lexemes

297
00:20:26,701 --> 00:20:28,886
or morphemes so that it
doesn't end up sounding

298
00:20:28,887 --> 00:20:31,111
exactly like Japanese.

299
00:20:31,135 --> 00:20:32,900
Right, right, right, right.

300
00:20:32,901 --> 00:20:37,700
So you're you are into scripts.

301
00:20:37,701 --> 00:20:40,500
I don't think I saw any Sanghaili writing.

302
00:20:40,501 --> 00:20:42,900
Did you did you guys develop any writing?

303
00:20:42,901 --> 00:20:48,300
So there's there is stuff in
the game and it's it's kind of

304
00:20:48,301 --> 00:20:52,700
an elementary system, and
aesthetically it's pleasing, but

305
00:20:52,701 --> 00:20:55,700
I don't know that it really
functions very well for the

306
00:20:55,701 --> 00:21:01,900
language we created. In the early
stages of our project working on this,

307
00:21:01,901 --> 00:21:06,700
I did put together a
proposal. David liked it.

308
00:21:06,701 --> 00:21:10,400
He made a secondary version
that he thought would work well

309
00:21:10,401 --> 00:21:15,500
as a font and we proposed it and they
sort of said thank you, but no, thank you.

310
00:21:15,501 --> 00:21:18,500
We're going to leave it to the
art department, which I'm sure

311
00:21:18,501 --> 00:21:22,300
you're aware is not uncommon
on TV shows and movies.

312
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:27,400
They leave the aesthetic
design to the art team, which you

313
00:21:27,401 --> 00:21:31,000
know can make for a really
pleasing movie or TV show, but

314
00:21:31,001 --> 00:21:34,300
doesn't necessarily speak to the stuff
that you and I might be interested in.

315
00:21:34,301 --> 00:21:35,900
You know, how does the writing system work?

316
00:21:35,901 --> 00:21:36,500
Etc.

317
00:21:36,501 --> 00:21:42,000
My proposal is is left
on the cutting room floor.

318
00:21:42,001 --> 00:21:42,700
So to speak.

319
00:21:44,598 --> 00:21:48,200
But I did I went full-fledged
with it and I had it all worked

320
00:21:48,201 --> 00:21:53,300
out this going to be sort of a Tibetan
esque the way the syllables fit together.

321
00:21:53,301 --> 00:21:57,128
It was going to be
abugida, but you know, if

322
00:21:57,129 --> 00:21:59,400
they they chose not
to go with it, that's fine.

323
00:21:59,401 --> 00:22:04,900
I think this seems to be a
common thing in like the movie

324
00:22:04,901 --> 00:22:11,000
conlangs is that like sometimes
they will ask somebody to

325
00:22:11,001 --> 00:22:14,300
make a script or they will
accept somebody's script they

326
00:22:14,301 --> 00:22:19,200
made and then but in a lot
of times they just like send it

327
00:22:19,201 --> 00:22:22,400
to the art department and
the art department does like an

328
00:22:22,401 --> 00:22:30,900
alphabet cipher and it just
doesn't have the systematicity to it.

329
00:22:30,901 --> 00:22:35,800
No, and I think I think
some of it is budget.

330
00:22:35,801 --> 00:22:40,400
I think some of it is, you
know, they're prioritizing the

331
00:22:40,401 --> 00:22:44,700
story over the aesthetics
and I think some of it and this

332
00:22:44,701 --> 00:22:48,800
is just my opinion is they're
not sure how these things

333
00:22:48,801 --> 00:22:54,600
really work and they don't they don't they
don't think it matters and that's fine.

334
00:22:54,601 --> 00:22:55,600
That's their choice.

335
00:22:55,601 --> 00:22:57,100
I think it would have been cool.

336
00:22:57,101 --> 00:23:01,400
I also, you know, I like a
like you I've watched the show

337
00:23:01,401 --> 00:23:04,200
and I don't know where they
would have necessarily included

338
00:23:04,201 --> 00:23:08,700
it. So I kind of think it might have
been a necessity thing in this case.

339
00:23:08,701 --> 00:23:10,600
It may have been what
we don't really need it.

340
00:23:10,601 --> 00:23:14,192
So we're not worried
about it, which again, that's

341
00:23:14,193 --> 00:23:17,400
their choice, but I was
fully on board to do it.

342
00:23:17,401 --> 00:23:21,800
David David and I both looked
it over and we thought about

343
00:23:21,801 --> 00:23:25,700
you know, what what level
of effort would be involved and

344
00:23:25,701 --> 00:23:29,100
I probably would have spent
about a week or two on it and

345
00:23:29,101 --> 00:23:31,300
then he could have turned it
into a font probably another

346
00:23:31,301 --> 00:23:35,400
week or two, but they wanted
us to focus on the language.

347
00:23:35,401 --> 00:23:36,200
That's what we did.

348
00:23:36,201 --> 00:23:40,200
Yeah, but that is interesting.

349
00:23:40,201 --> 00:23:48,600
Yeah, it would it I think
given I don't think I have that

350
00:23:48,601 --> 00:23:54,200
we have any shots of Sengheili
writing anywhere which you

351
00:23:54,201 --> 00:23:57,300
know, I mean they could have
had a close-up of an interface

352
00:23:57,301 --> 00:24:02,100
somewhere that they could have put it on
but I guess they just didn't worry about it.

353
00:24:02,101 --> 00:24:05,200
Yeah, like I said, I don't
think it's a priority for them.

354
00:24:05,201 --> 00:24:08,300
I think this show is very
much focused on the story and

355
00:24:08,301 --> 00:24:12,800
the action. The Sangheili
that we've created thus far.

356
00:24:12,801 --> 00:24:16,058
I think has added some
depth to the story and

357
00:24:16,059 --> 00:24:17,800
I think that's what
they were looking for.

358
00:24:17,801 --> 00:24:19,500
Yeah.

359
00:24:19,501 --> 00:24:23,200
Yeah, and it's it is an interesting story.

360
00:24:23,201 --> 00:24:29,700
It's got lots of interesting
characters and lots of you

361
00:24:29,701 --> 00:24:35,500
know, complicated political
shenanigans going on.

362
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,600
Yes shenanigans.

363
00:24:38,601 --> 00:24:40,416
I think is the most appropriate
word.

364
00:24:41,746 --> 00:24:43,300
Maybe a little bit

365
00:24:43,301 --> 00:24:47,600
stronger than shenanigans,
but I won't get into all of the

366
00:24:47,601 --> 00:24:51,200
stuff especially as you get
into season 2 it gets a little

367
00:24:51,201 --> 00:24:59,900
crazy but like it definitely
fits in and I think it was very

368
00:24:59,901 --> 00:25:10,100
important to have that with the
with a human character being

369
00:25:10,101 --> 00:25:16,500
involved who was like partially
raised by the Covenant because

370
00:25:16,501 --> 00:25:22,400
there was a little bit of
interplay of her speaking different

371
00:25:22,401 --> 00:25:31,800
languages and there was like
moments where like she was

372
00:25:31,801 --> 00:25:37,000
instrumental in in deciphering
things and then there was

373
00:25:37,001 --> 00:25:41,600
also-- I really like there was
one moment in the show where

374
00:25:41,601 --> 00:25:48,400
they had the Spartans start
contributing to like deciphering

375
00:25:48,401 --> 00:25:52,700
Sangheili because like a
plot point in the first season is

376
00:25:52,701 --> 00:25:57,000
that they don't understand
everything and they're trying to

377
00:25:57,001 --> 00:26:02,700
like learn more Sangheili in
order to translate transmissions

378
00:26:02,701 --> 00:26:09,000
and things and like apparently
no one thought to ask the Spartans

379
00:26:09,001 --> 00:26:11,800
because they're they're
just weapons, right?

380
00:26:11,801 --> 00:26:14,900
They aren't supposed to question anything.

381
00:26:14,901 --> 00:26:16,421
They're not supposed to know anything.

382
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:19,800
They're conditioned and like chemically.

383
00:26:19,801 --> 00:26:27,800
Prevented from like having
feelings and things and also right.

384
00:26:27,801 --> 00:26:31,500
They didn't think of them as intelligent.

385
00:26:31,501 --> 00:26:37,747
But they had the most
contact with Covenant because

386
00:26:37,748 --> 00:26:40,600
apparently they never had
any prisoners or anything.

387
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:50,000
So like they were instrumental in
some of the efforts to translate it.

388
00:26:50,001 --> 00:26:51,000
That was interesting.

389
00:26:51,001 --> 00:26:57,900
Let's let's pivot over and
talk a little bit about your other

390
00:26:57,901 --> 00:27:03,800
like conlang work. Like what
like what languages do you work

391
00:27:03,801 --> 00:27:08,701
on personally and and do you have any
other commercial work that you've done?

392
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,800
Well, so my personal
stuff, I'll go over that first.

393
00:27:13,801 --> 00:27:17,200
My primary project is one called Kala.

394
00:27:17,201 --> 00:27:23,900
It is a artistic language that
I developed primarily as a

395
00:27:23,901 --> 00:27:27,600
means of exercising my
writing system muscles.

396
00:27:29,683 --> 00:27:31,500
It's a pretty basic language.

397
00:27:31,501 --> 00:27:33,000
I'd say grammatically.

398
00:27:33,001 --> 00:27:35,974
It's very close to it
doesn't mirror exactly but

399
00:27:35,975 --> 00:27:39,600
it's close to Korean in
its grammatical structure.

400
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,800
Phonologically, it's
pretty close to the Nahuatl.

401
00:27:45,801 --> 00:27:51,800
I used open syllable structure
like Japanese, but I included

402
00:27:51,801 --> 00:27:57,300
some prenasals like Bantu
languages do so, but I've created

403
00:27:57,301 --> 00:28:03,700
a multitude of systems for
Kala going back to one that I

404
00:28:03,701 --> 00:28:07,300
originally created for a
different language in the early

405
00:28:07,301 --> 00:28:12,300
2000s and I've developed those systems
as I've gone along with the language.

406
00:28:12,301 --> 00:28:20,300
Most recently, I published a PDF that
describes a system called Omyatloko.

407
00:28:20,301 --> 00:28:24,300
Omyatloko is a logo syllabary.

408
00:28:24,301 --> 00:28:32,700
It includes logograms, ideograms, pictographs
as well as a complementing syllabary.

409
00:28:32,701 --> 00:28:33,000
Yep.

410
00:28:33,001 --> 00:28:34,600
There's the grammar for Kala.

411
00:28:34,601 --> 00:28:36,000
Yeah.

412
00:28:36,001 --> 00:28:37,001
Yeah.

413
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,600
And we will link to this.

414
00:28:39,601 --> 00:28:45,800
This is on Fiatlingua.

415
00:28:47,911 --> 00:28:48,500
Yeah.

416
00:28:48,501 --> 00:28:52,000
So that's my main project.

417
00:28:52,001 --> 00:28:55,254
There's a, like I said,
there's four or five different

418
00:28:55,255 --> 00:28:59,100
writing systems that I've
created based on Kala.

419
00:29:00,651 --> 00:29:04,400
Omyatloko, the latest one,
is also my proudest one.

420
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,200
Over a thousand logograms.

421
00:29:08,201 --> 00:29:12,400
And again, the complementing
syllabary to go with it.

422
00:29:12,401 --> 00:29:17,100
It's very fun to write with.

423
00:29:17,101 --> 00:29:22,491
It's also a great tool in
trying to develop vocabulary

424
00:29:22,492 --> 00:29:24,900
and work on grammar
skills, things like that.

425
00:29:26,536 --> 00:29:32,201
It's just a lot of fun to utilize
and to mess with and to update.

426
00:29:33,182 --> 00:29:38,154
Another project that I've worked
on is something called Mal.

427
00:29:38,201 --> 00:29:40,100
Mal is a little different.

428
00:29:40,101 --> 00:29:46,300
Kind of sort of sourcing some of the
vocabulary from Proto-Indo-European.

429
00:29:46,301 --> 00:29:51,600
But I'm trying to develop
the grammar and some of the

430
00:29:51,601 --> 00:29:56,827
outlying morphological
changes so that the language

431
00:29:56,828 --> 00:30:00,100
ends up sounding almost
Semitic or Afro-Asiatic.

432
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:06,500
Even though I'm using PIE
sort of roots and vocabulary.

433
00:30:07,965 --> 00:30:10,400
I don't have a lot of
other personal projects.

434
00:30:10,401 --> 00:30:14,175
I did recently start
something called Hajimo,

435
00:30:14,176 --> 00:30:18,300
which is something sort
of in honor of my daughter.

436
00:30:18,301 --> 00:30:20,400
It's a language for fairies.

437
00:30:20,401 --> 00:30:25,000
It's got somewhat of a
minimalistic phonology, but the

438
00:30:25,001 --> 00:30:27,922
grammar is what I'm
prouder of because it's

439
00:30:27,923 --> 00:30:33,000
going to involve things
like motional coverbs.

440
00:30:33,001 --> 00:30:36,400
For example, a fairy is
going to be flying around.

441
00:30:36,401 --> 00:30:39,700
Are they eating while they're flying?

442
00:30:39,701 --> 00:30:42,300
If so, are they flying
quickly, flying slowly?

443
00:30:42,301 --> 00:30:43,100
Are they hovering?

444
00:30:43,101 --> 00:30:47,800
And those would be encoded
in morphemes and in {unintelligible}.

445
00:30:47,801 --> 00:30:50,600
So those are just some side projects.

446
00:30:50,601 --> 00:30:54,600
I have done some other
commercial work, nothing that's

447
00:30:54,601 --> 00:30:59,000
advertised because I get
contacted sometimes by email or

448
00:30:59,001 --> 00:31:02,300
through Reddit and folks will
ask me to make them a writing

449
00:31:02,301 --> 00:31:05,200
system or to, you know, put
together a small vocabulary.

450
00:31:05,201 --> 00:31:15,900
A couple years ago, an individual contacted
me via Twitter and wanted me to make

451
00:31:15,901 --> 00:31:19,085
some symbols that they were
going to use to represent the seasons.

452
00:31:19,086 --> 00:31:23,000
I went back and forth
with them for a little while

453
00:31:23,001 --> 00:31:25,100
because they were going
to just do four seasons.

454
00:31:25,101 --> 00:31:28,400
I showed them that different
cultures see seasons differently.

455
00:31:28,999 --> 00:31:31,104
Maybe I can create you a couple more.

456
00:31:31,198 --> 00:31:35,200
So I made those symbols for them.

457
00:31:35,918 --> 00:31:36,800
Small fee.

458
00:31:36,801 --> 00:31:40,767
I don't really like to
advertise prices because

459
00:31:40,768 --> 00:31:43,200
those are always negotiable
as far as I'm concerned.

460
00:31:43,201 --> 00:31:45,200
But if somebody wants me to.

461
00:31:48,390 --> 00:31:49,500
You're here.

462
00:31:49,501 --> 00:31:51,000
Oh, I'm here.

463
00:31:51,001 --> 00:31:51,500
Okay.

464
00:31:51,501 --> 00:31:52,400
It says reconnecting.

465
00:31:52,401 --> 00:31:53,401
Sorry.

466
00:31:54,301 --> 00:31:58,396
But I don't like to talk about prices,
because those are always

467
00:31:58,420 --> 00:31:59,191
negotiable as far as I'm

468
00:31:59,192 --> 00:32:04,000
concerned, but no, I'm
open to any commercial work.

469
00:32:04,001 --> 00:32:06,800
I like I like working on projects.

470
00:32:06,801 --> 00:32:10,600
It's a lot of fun to sort of
dig into not just the language

471
00:32:10,601 --> 00:32:13,000
aspect of it, but the
cultural aspect of it.

472
00:32:13,001 --> 00:32:15,200
Why is this grammatical feature here?

473
00:32:15,201 --> 00:32:18,914
Why don't they use,
you know, plosives or why

474
00:32:18,915 --> 00:32:22,600
why do they have three
vowels versus seven?

475
00:32:22,601 --> 00:32:26,200
Those kinds of questions
are very interesting to dig into

476
00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:30,599
but no, my primary
projects are Kala and Mal.

477
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,400
because those are the ones
that interest me the most.

478
00:32:33,401 --> 00:32:38,500
I did see I do pay attention to
the Language Creation Society

479
00:32:38,501 --> 00:32:42,700
job postings and I will apply
to those from time to time,

480
00:32:42,701 --> 00:32:46,100
but there's a few of them
that I know some of my other

481
00:32:46,101 --> 00:32:50,200
conlanging friends are
probably more suited better suited

482
00:32:50,201 --> 00:32:53,500
for just based on the
nature of the project job.

483
00:32:53,501 --> 00:32:56,800
So some of them I don't
I don't really apply for.

484
00:32:59,823 --> 00:33:05,200
You were talking about like
you enjoy delving into the culture

485
00:33:05,201 --> 00:33:12,054
- as well as
- Ah, yes, because cultural aspects can very

486
00:33:12,055 --> 00:33:15,900
much inform how language
changes and how it evolves.

487
00:33:15,901 --> 00:33:19,600
I spoke about this both during
my Kopikon presentation

488
00:33:19,601 --> 00:33:24,500
that was specifically about
writing systems, but also during

489
00:33:24,501 --> 00:33:27,500
the latest Language Creation
Conference that was held via

490
00:33:27,501 --> 00:33:32,000
YouTube and that's I think
that's one of the reasons why David

491
00:33:32,001 --> 00:33:36,600
David preferred me for this position for
this particular project because

492
00:33:36,601 --> 00:33:41,600
like I said in the earlier in the
interview military background

493
00:33:41,601 --> 00:33:47,400
and some of the verbs of the
dialogue that we developed that

494
00:33:47,401 --> 00:33:51,700
we needed to develop the show
pretty much focused on military

495
00:33:51,701 --> 00:33:56,000
sort of tactics or military
verbiage that is used in the

496
00:33:56,001 --> 00:34:00,900
show and I think I do think
that my insight is valuable in

497
00:34:00,901 --> 00:34:05,217
those instances and
some of the warrior mindset

498
00:34:05,218 --> 00:34:09,330
of the elites, especially
came into play.

499
00:34:12,050 --> 00:34:14,590
- I can't...
- Were there, like...?

500
00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:15,536
Go ahead.

501
00:34:15,617 --> 00:34:17,177
Like, yeah, I'm just asking,

502
00:34:17,201 --> 00:34:19,019
like were there
particular metaphors that

503
00:34:19,020 --> 00:34:24,800
they they they use that
that come from that or

504
00:34:28,501 --> 00:34:34,000
Well, we had an interview
with the studio that they put out

505
00:34:34,001 --> 00:34:39,900
as a promotional video where
we discussed how to say hello

506
00:34:39,901 --> 00:34:44,693
and it has to do with
fighting, you know, "Fight well"

507
00:34:45,126 --> 00:34:47,900
is there greeting
is it's not it's not hello.

508
00:34:47,901 --> 00:34:52,600
So that kind of mindset that
kind of metaphorical thinking

509
00:34:52,601 --> 00:34:58,400
or dialogue is one of the
things that we talked about and

510
00:34:58,401 --> 00:35:03,000
instead of headquarters, they
talk about a nest because the

511
00:35:03,001 --> 00:35:10,300
Sangheili Elites are lizard-like so lizards
have a nest where they lay their eggs.

512
00:35:10,301 --> 00:35:15,100
So that kind of metaphorical
thinking was applied throughout

513
00:35:15,101 --> 00:35:17,411
the dialogue to be
created.

514
00:35:17,435 --> 00:35:20,107
In terms of like the

515
00:35:20,108 --> 00:35:22,800
the kind of dialogue
you were talking about.

516
00:35:22,801 --> 00:35:26,600
So you're talking about like
there's there's military style

517
00:35:26,601 --> 00:35:31,600
dialogue that that you had to
do was are you talking about

518
00:35:31,601 --> 00:35:35,800
like commands or are you
talking about like cases?

519
00:35:35,801 --> 00:35:36,700
Yeah.

520
00:35:36,701 --> 00:35:40,800
So one of the verbs that we
made was to flank which is a

521
00:35:40,801 --> 00:35:44,779
military term that that
has a lot to do with

522
00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:47,600
like movements across
the battlefield, right?

523
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,025
We talked about we
have a verb that is to track

524
00:35:52,026 --> 00:35:55,400
someone or to sort of,
you know, track them down.

525
00:35:57,784 --> 00:36:02,900
Those are the kinds of verbs
that we had to come up with.

526
00:36:02,901 --> 00:36:07,900
We came up with some nouns
that were strictly military like

527
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,461
talking about the
different types of weapons

528
00:36:10,462 --> 00:36:12,400
talking about the
different types of vehicles.

529
00:36:12,401 --> 00:36:17,207
And when we did that, we wanted
to pull those in a natural way.

530
00:36:17,208 --> 00:36:22,000
So we kind of started with
this sort of proto word in

531
00:36:22,001 --> 00:36:25,300
our head as far as like,
where's it going to come from?

532
00:36:25,301 --> 00:36:28,900
But then we developed it
into a more specific term that

533
00:36:28,901 --> 00:36:33,200
similar to the way modern
militaries use these terms.

534
00:36:33,201 --> 00:36:37,700
Good example, guys in the
army today, even still they call

535
00:36:37,701 --> 00:36:39,859
it a truck, and we're
going to go get the truck.

536
00:36:40,193 --> 00:36:41,400
Well, it's not really a truck.

537
00:36:41,401 --> 00:36:42,200
You know what I mean?

538
00:36:42,201 --> 00:36:45,200
Not in a strictest sense, right?

539
00:36:45,201 --> 00:36:51,200
So so we we kind of looked
at it from that perspective.

540
00:36:51,201 --> 00:36:53,000
We talked about a rifle.

541
00:36:53,001 --> 00:36:58,800
You know, rifling is something
that goes back to the early

542
00:36:58,801 --> 00:37:06,400
days of gunpowdered weapons,
but it didn't always mean a

543
00:37:06,401 --> 00:37:09,100
rifle that you carry to
shoot, shoot someone with.

544
00:37:09,101 --> 00:37:13,200
So you kind of have to take
yourself back into that kind of thinking.

545
00:37:13,201 --> 00:37:16,000
Where did the modern
military terms come from?

546
00:37:16,001 --> 00:37:19,700
And how do we want to
develop those in this language for

547
00:37:19,701 --> 00:37:22,400
these people because of
their culture, because of their

548
00:37:22,401 --> 00:37:25,005
physiology, as you
pointed out earlier, those,

549
00:37:25,006 --> 00:37:27,761
those are all questions
that we had to include.

550
00:37:28,221 --> 00:37:33,300
And and the technology
because like they don't have a rifle

551
00:37:33,301 --> 00:37:36,600
with a barrel that has the
corkscrew grooves in it, they

552
00:37:36,601 --> 00:37:43,900
have plasma rifles and plasma
swords and needler thingies.

553
00:37:43,901 --> 00:37:47,413
You have to figure out
how those were made and

554
00:37:47,414 --> 00:37:49,900
what, what words would
end up being used, right?

555
00:37:49,901 --> 00:37:50,900
Right.

556
00:37:50,901 --> 00:37:56,000
Um, another good example,
not necessarily military lingo,

557
00:37:56,001 --> 00:37:58,700
but something that we
developed from the culture mindset

558
00:37:58,701 --> 00:38:03,700
is, uh, the idea of an empty
egg, you know, like, like I

559
00:38:03,701 --> 00:38:05,600
mentioned, there's sort
of lizard like creatures.

560
00:38:05,601 --> 00:38:11,300
Um, and so to insult someone, you
might call them an empty egg, right?

561
00:38:11,301 --> 00:38:17,700
Um, those, those, those
kinds of things, um, to, to stomp

562
00:38:17,701 --> 00:38:21,300
on someone's nest, you
know, it's kind of like, I'm going

563
00:38:21,301 --> 00:38:24,300
to go mess them up, you
know, to keep it family friendly.

564
00:38:24,301 --> 00:38:25,301
Right.

565
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,180
Um, but that's the kind
of mindset we had to put

566
00:38:28,181 --> 00:38:31,600
ourselves into develop,
uh, a lot of the dialogue.

567
00:38:33,203 --> 00:38:33,700
Yeah.

568
00:38:33,701 --> 00:38:34,100
Yeah.

569
00:38:34,101 --> 00:38:35,200
Yeah.

570
00:38:35,201 --> 00:38:41,600
It, it, it is, it is super fun
to get into like the mindset

571
00:38:41,601 --> 00:38:45,300
when you're doing something
that's for something that's non-human.

572
00:38:45,301 --> 00:38:49,200
That's something that I'm,
I'm thinking of a lot when I'm

573
00:38:49,201 --> 00:38:51,900
doing, uh, Ndăkaga
because it's dragons, right.

574
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,700
And I have to think about like, um, okay.

575
00:38:55,701 --> 00:38:57,600
I have, I have a word.

576
00:38:57,601 --> 00:39:04,000
I, I, I'm, I have these words and
I, I know how human languages

577
00:39:04,001 --> 00:39:06,900
come up with these things,
but I think about it from the point

578
00:39:06,901 --> 00:39:11,296
of view of a giant creature
that can fly and has

579
00:39:11,297 --> 00:39:15,500
a breath weapon and,
and is predatory and stuff.

580
00:39:15,501 --> 00:39:17,300
And it's like, yeah, yeah.

581
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:19,000
All right.

582
00:39:19,001 --> 00:39:21,700
And like just, just coming, just
coming off the top of my head, they

583
00:39:21,701 --> 00:39:27,600
have tails, which influence their
balance and therefore their perspective.

584
00:39:27,601 --> 00:39:32,800
So like, you know, you take that
into account that can influence nouns.

585
00:39:32,801 --> 00:39:34,700
Like does, does that noun have a tail?

586
00:39:34,701 --> 00:39:36,000
It could be a noun classifier.

587
00:39:36,001 --> 00:39:36,600
You know what I mean?

588
00:39:36,601 --> 00:39:40,471
Very interesting thought experiments.

589
00:39:41,271 --> 00:39:41,700
Yeah.

590
00:39:41,701 --> 00:39:42,000
Yeah.

591
00:39:42,001 --> 00:39:42,700
Yeah.

592
00:39:42,701 --> 00:39:47,900
Um, I have done a little bit
of stuff with that, but yeah.

593
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:51,200
But, um, uh, it is interesting.

594
00:39:51,201 --> 00:39:56,100
Um, does your military background
affect your other conlanging?

595
00:39:56,101 --> 00:39:59,475
Obviously it's going to
be useful for the kind of

596
00:39:59,476 --> 00:40:04,900
world building that you
need to do in, in Sangheili.

597
00:40:04,901 --> 00:40:08,787
But like, did you
encounter other cultures in

598
00:40:08,788 --> 00:40:11,642
a way that informed
your other conlanging or?

599
00:40:11,689 --> 00:40:13,300
So that's probably, yeah.

600
00:40:13,301 --> 00:40:15,500
So that's probably the best
way to ask that question.

601
00:40:15,501 --> 00:40:16,501
So thank you.

602
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:21,080
Um, so I was stationed in
Germany for the entirety of

603
00:40:21,081 --> 00:40:24,900
my military time, uh, but I
was deployed to Croatia.

604
00:40:24,901 --> 00:40:28,800
A place quite frankly, that I had
not heard of before I got there.

605
00:40:28,801 --> 00:40:32,700
Uh, cause I was very young
and ill informed of the world.

606
00:40:32,701 --> 00:40:35,900
Um, I also spent some time in Saudi Arabia.

607
00:40:35,901 --> 00:40:40,900
Um, I then as a contractor, don't
worry about what that means, but as a

608
00:40:40,901 --> 00:40:44,651
civilian, not in the military,
I went over to Qatar,

609
00:40:44,652 --> 00:40:47,000
so I spent quite a bit of
time in the middle East.

610
00:40:47,001 --> 00:40:51,900
And I can say for sure that that
has influenced my, my own work.

611
00:40:51,901 --> 00:40:56,338
Um, I learned as a, I
don't know about as much

612
00:40:56,339 --> 00:41:01,200
Arabic as, as, as a person
can learn in two years.

613
00:41:01,201 --> 00:41:06,600
Um, I had many Arabic friends,
Arabic speaking friends, folks that were

614
00:41:06,601 --> 00:41:14,000
from Jordan, Lebanon, um, Palestinians,
Egyptians, um, even a few Iraqis.

615
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:21,400
Um, so I got the whole gambit of dialects,
uh, across the, uh, Arabic speaking world.

616
00:41:21,401 --> 00:41:24,000
Um, that was very informative.

617
00:41:24,001 --> 00:41:30,500
Both, uh, as someone interested in
conlanging, but someone generally

618
00:41:30,501 --> 00:41:33,007
interested in languages
and how they actually

619
00:41:33,008 --> 00:41:35,500
work rather than sort
of the textbook stuff.

620
00:41:35,501 --> 00:41:38,400
I don't know if you took anything
in high school, but I took Spanish in

621
00:41:38,401 --> 00:41:42,020
high school and I know
I've spoken to people from

622
00:41:42,021 --> 00:41:44,900
Mexico and Puerto Rico
and Colombia and Venezuela.

623
00:41:44,901 --> 00:41:49,100
And the Spanish in those textbooks is
not Spanish that exists in the real world.

624
00:41:49,101 --> 00:41:55,700
Um, and being in the middle East
again, like I said, it's very, uh, eye

625
00:41:55,701 --> 00:41:59,300
opening and it really informs one's
perspective of how language actually

626
00:41:59,301 --> 00:42:03,700
works in the real world day to
day, uh, between native speakers.

627
00:42:03,701 --> 00:42:08,600
Um, so that part of it has really,
uh, informed a lot of my own private

628
00:42:08,601 --> 00:42:11,914
conlanging, as well as some of
the stuff that we did with Sangeili.

629
00:42:12,034 --> 00:42:16,800
Uh, David is, uh, extremely
intelligent when it comes to sound

630
00:42:16,801 --> 00:42:24,000
changes and developing vocabulary
from a proto form to a modern form, uh,

631
00:42:24,001 --> 00:42:28,338
as well as sort of the semantic
space that a definition will

632
00:42:28,339 --> 00:42:31,100
exist in before it needs to
change to a different thing.

633
00:42:31,101 --> 00:42:33,100
Uh, he was very good at that.

634
00:42:33,101 --> 00:42:37,800
And some of the stuff that I learned,
uh, in the middle East and everything,

635
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,200
I sort of helped him with some of
that too, because like you might use a

636
00:42:42,201 --> 00:42:48,900
verb, uh, differently between dialects,
but in those dialects individually

637
00:42:48,901 --> 00:42:51,067
within those different
dialects, that verb is

638
00:42:51,068 --> 00:42:54,400
going to have a pretty
narrow space, right?

639
00:42:54,401 --> 00:42:58,000
Uh, cause they're going to just
use a different word, but across the

640
00:42:58,001 --> 00:43:02,300
dialects, it might be, it might
be really kind of weirdly different.

641
00:43:02,301 --> 00:43:05,800
Um, and that's kind of what we
had to keep in mind with Sangheili is,

642
00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:08,712
Do we, do we need to
make another word or can we

643
00:43:08,713 --> 00:43:10,500
just sort of use this
word a little differently?

644
00:43:10,501 --> 00:43:11,300
Right.

645
00:43:11,301 --> 00:43:16,900
Um, and his, his degree in linguistics
and my experience over in the

646
00:43:16,901 --> 00:43:20,250
Middle East, I think helped
to inform how far we went

647
00:43:20,251 --> 00:43:23,884
or how close we stayed
to those, those creations.

648
00:43:25,031 --> 00:43:30,400
Um, that made me think, um, a
little bit, cause you were talking

649
00:43:30,401 --> 00:43:36,000
about dialects and such, um, is
that did you make any effort to make

650
00:43:36,001 --> 00:43:42,000
different dialects of Sangheili,
especially since like, you know, I

651
00:43:42,001 --> 00:43:46,800
would, I would kind of expect the
Elites and the Grunts to talk a little

652
00:43:46,801 --> 00:43:51,023
differently than the council
members, but I don't, I don't know.

653
00:43:51,048 --> 00:43:52,400
No, I, I agree with you.

654
00:43:52,401 --> 00:43:55,500
I think that there would be some different
pronunciations just based on their

655
00:43:55,501 --> 00:43:59,500
physiology, physiology alone, as
you mentioned in the beginning here.

656
00:43:59,501 --> 00:44:03,500
- Um, yeah, right.
- But also outlook.

657
00:44:03,501 --> 00:44:08,900
Um, yeah, it's, it's, it wasn't
something that we were tasked with.

658
00:44:08,901 --> 00:44:12,440
I think, I think David
probably would have been all

659
00:44:12,441 --> 00:44:16,000
for it had it been something
that we were asked to do.

660
00:44:16,001 --> 00:44:18,200
Uh, but we weren't asked to do it.

661
00:44:18,201 --> 00:44:22,900
Um, and similar to the writing
system that I spoke of earlier, you know,

662
00:44:22,901 --> 00:44:26,468
if, if, if, if it's not something
they want us to do, I

663
00:44:26,469 --> 00:44:29,100
mean, okay, then we'll
just, we'll leave it to the side.

664
00:44:29,101 --> 00:44:34,000
You know, I think that probably with
a little bit of time and a little bit of

665
00:44:34,001 --> 00:44:38,234
effort, I think that either
I could, or David could

666
00:44:38,235 --> 00:44:41,700
pretty, pretty smoothly
make a dialect or two.

667
00:44:41,701 --> 00:44:45,700
Um, but it's not something
that, uh, we've been asked to do.

668
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:54,308
Um, actually I would ask
though, like how much, how

669
00:44:54,333 --> 00:45:01,600
much did like the like
religious aspect of the culture?

670
00:45:01,601 --> 00:45:06,400
How much did you take that into
account in lots of metaphors and stuff?

671
00:45:06,401 --> 00:45:11,527
Because like, it's not subtle
that the Covenant are religious

672
00:45:11,528 --> 00:45:15,100
fanatics and that is their
motivation for pursuing the Halo.

673
00:45:15,700 --> 00:45:23,900
Right, so some of the writing that,
you know, is in the scripts and in the

674
00:45:23,901 --> 00:45:28,900
shows, um, you know, we would receive
the scripts and I would go through it

675
00:45:28,901 --> 00:45:30,500
and see what parts
that we were going to do.

676
00:45:30,501 --> 00:45:38,400
If it's spoke in this sort of
metaphorical way or, you know, they were

677
00:45:38,401 --> 00:45:42,100
using analogies or they're sort of
speaking poetically or something like

678
00:45:42,101 --> 00:45:44,627
that, we would definitely
take that into account, but

679
00:45:44,628 --> 00:45:48,131
it wasn't something that we
drilled down on too closely.

680
00:45:48,156 --> 00:45:55,200
Um, if you listen to some of the council
members when they speak, I don't want

681
00:45:55,201 --> 00:45:59,900
to say it's one for one as far as
metaphorical thinking or metaphorical

682
00:45:59,901 --> 00:46:04,000
speaking, but it's pretty close
to the way humans speak, right?

683
00:46:04,001 --> 00:46:08,500
It's pretty close to the types of
languages, maybe an evangelical would

684
00:46:08,501 --> 00:46:15,271
use or even a, a, um, maybe
any, any extremists from, from

685
00:46:15,272 --> 00:46:20,400
a religious, uh, sect or, or
divination or what have you.

686
00:46:20,401 --> 00:46:24,681
Um, so we didn't really drill
down too far on that stuff.

687
00:46:24,706 --> 00:46:29,500
When, when we were looking at it,
some of it was, um, how do I put it?

688
00:46:29,501 --> 00:46:30,500
It's kind of bland.

689
00:46:30,501 --> 00:46:33,362
So all we needed to do was
make the language sound

690
00:46:33,363 --> 00:46:35,701
good, I guess is probably
the best way to say it.

691
00:46:36,700 --> 00:46:39,900
That it is kind of generalized.

692
00:46:39,901 --> 00:46:44,800
It's not entirely clear what they
worship, except that they, they want

693
00:46:44,801 --> 00:46:50,500
to, the, the something in their religion
makes them want to find the Halo and

694
00:46:50,501 --> 00:46:53,840
use it to eliminate
all other life forms,

695
00:46:53,841 --> 00:46:57,970
basically very unsubtle
textbook, evil cult.

696
00:46:57,995 --> 00:47:02,000
Right, it's sort of an
apocalyptic cult a little bit.

697
00:47:02,001 --> 00:47:05,400
I would say a dystopic kind
of, you know, apocalyptic thing.

698
00:47:05,401 --> 00:47:06,600
They want to blow everybody up.

699
00:47:06,601 --> 00:47:11,816
And like I said, the language is pretty
straightforward and not, not the Sangheili

700
00:47:11,841 --> 00:47:13,573
language, but
the way they speak about

701
00:47:13,574 --> 00:47:15,500
it in the script is
pretty straightforward.

702
00:47:15,501 --> 00:47:17,900
It's not as metaphorical.

703
00:47:17,901 --> 00:47:21,300
Um, but yeah, we, we did
work on a couple of things.

704
00:47:21,301 --> 00:47:23,600
I can't recall them right
off the top of my head.

705
00:47:23,601 --> 00:47:25,600
We started this stuff back in 2019.

706
00:47:25,601 --> 00:47:30,104
Um, just a little bit of history there.

707
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,352
Uh, 2019, uh, summertime is
when David, uh, reached out to

708
00:47:35,353 --> 00:47:38,700
me and decided to, to, to
bring me on board this project.

709
00:47:38,701 --> 00:47:44,000
And because of COVID,
um, we got the first scripts.

710
00:47:44,001 --> 00:47:47,347
I want to say it was
mid to late 2020,

711
00:47:47,348 --> 00:47:51,500
but we didn't actually do a
lot of the stuff until 21.

712
00:47:51,501 --> 00:47:55,963
Um, and they kept pushing
back the premiere date

713
00:47:55,988 --> 00:47:58,200
for the show, which, you
know, understandable.

714
00:47:58,201 --> 00:47:59,800
They had production delays.

715
00:47:59,801 --> 00:48:03,164
They had, uh, actors
that were kind of doing

716
00:48:03,165 --> 00:48:05,900
other things in between
all that good stuff.

717
00:48:05,901 --> 00:48:10,129
So we didn't actually
get down and dirty until

718
00:48:10,130 --> 00:48:14,300
probably 21, 22, somewhere
in there, 20, 21, 2022.

719
00:48:14,301 --> 00:48:19,900
And then by 2023, you know, it was ready
to premiere and here we go and everything.

720
00:48:19,901 --> 00:48:22,200
And now we're into the second season.

721
00:48:22,201 --> 00:48:25,100
I mean, it's, it's been five
years since we started.

722
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,758
So some of the stuff from the, from
the early days, I can't even remember.

723
00:48:30,871 --> 00:48:31,700
Yeah, I know.

724
00:48:31,701 --> 00:48:37,000
I, it, I, I know that there's, there's
certain things that stick out as like

725
00:48:37,001 --> 00:48:40,920
things that they must have
written into the script as like

726
00:48:40,921 --> 00:48:44,300
religious language, like
calling master chief a demon.

727
00:48:44,301 --> 00:48:51,300
And also the word, I think it's
Hirajo, uh, meaning blessed one.

728
00:48:51,301 --> 00:48:52,300
Right.

729
00:48:52,301 --> 00:48:55,278
And so that's, that's a, that's
a good example because you

730
00:48:55,279 --> 00:48:58,700
played that clip earlier where
he refers to her as Hirajo.

731
00:48:58,701 --> 00:49:03,100
Um, that's, that's probably
a good one to explain.

732
00:49:03,101 --> 00:49:10,700
So we, we had the, uh, agentive or a
nominative nominative for a person, right.

733
00:49:10,701 --> 00:49:14,300
To make the concept into a
person referred to an individual.

734
00:49:14,301 --> 00:49:19,124
And so we just took
the verb, uh, to be holy,

735
00:49:19,125 --> 00:49:23,000
um, hira and we just
said, okay, hirajo.

736
00:49:23,001 --> 00:49:30,400
And those endings for the nominative
person, uh, vary based on the phonology

737
00:49:30,401 --> 00:49:34,200
of the verb it's being attached
to as any natural language would.

738
00:49:34,201 --> 00:49:38,026
Um, and so when they
refer to her as Hirajo,

739
00:49:38,051 --> 00:49:40,600
it's not her name,
it's sort of her title.

740
00:49:40,601 --> 00:49:44,800
So that's probably the metaphorical
thing thinking that they're doing.

741
00:49:44,801 --> 00:49:47,000
They're referring to her as holy one.

742
00:49:47,001 --> 00:49:49,600
And that that's pretty cut and dry.

743
00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:51,800
You know, just put an affix on a verb.

744
00:49:51,801 --> 00:49:52,500
There you go.

745
00:49:52,501 --> 00:49:53,400
You've got to do work.

746
00:49:53,401 --> 00:49:54,800
Yeah.

747
00:49:54,801 --> 00:49:55,500
Yeah.

748
00:49:55,501 --> 00:50:01,900
And it's, it's, you know, it's not really
tied to like precisely what it means.

749
00:50:01,901 --> 00:50:07,400
Maybe more of how they see her because
like the term is referring to humans

750
00:50:07,401 --> 00:50:10,700
that have a certain special ability
that I won't, I won't talk about it.

751
00:50:10,701 --> 00:50:13,100
But, uh, yeah, yeah.

752
00:50:13,101 --> 00:50:22,000
So, um, uh, but yeah, that's, that
it, that's all like super interesting.

753
00:50:22,001 --> 00:50:27,200
And, uh, it's, it is interesting to
like talk to people who are on these

754
00:50:27,201 --> 00:50:31,100
projects about like how,
how things came together.

755
00:50:31,101 --> 00:50:41,300
Um, uh, like one thing I will say is
like, I, I was watching, so I watched

756
00:50:41,301 --> 00:50:47,536
the, the first season when it
came out on YouTube and like,

757
00:50:47,537 --> 00:50:51,200
it was very upfront with the
Sangheili from the beginning.

758
00:50:51,201 --> 00:50:56,900
And like, it was, it was interesting
getting into the second season and

759
00:50:56,901 --> 00:51:01,600
watching it and like, kept
watching more episodes.

760
00:51:01,601 --> 00:51:08,100
I'm like, I haven't heard any Sangheili
for a while until, but later on, it

761
00:51:08,101 --> 00:51:12,320
comes in because like
the first part is very much

762
00:51:12,321 --> 00:51:16,006
focusing on like the human
side of the story, I guess.

763
00:51:16,053 --> 00:51:16,600
Right.

764
00:51:16,601 --> 00:51:21,700
And that's one of the things, um,
you know, because I'm the one that

765
00:51:21,701 --> 00:51:25,000
pulls the stuff from the
script that we need to work on.

766
00:51:25,001 --> 00:51:28,600
That's one of the things I noticed,
excuse me, right away when we get sent

767
00:51:28,601 --> 00:51:35,404
the scripts is how much work each
episode is going to require David and I.

768
00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:40,300
And when I got the scripts for the
first couple episodes of the second

769
00:51:40,301 --> 00:51:42,655
season, I messaged
David and I, you know, so

770
00:51:42,656 --> 00:51:45,100
it looks like we can
take a few weeks off.

771
00:51:45,101 --> 00:51:50,700
Um, but then as you noted, it kind
of gets thick there towards the middle

772
00:51:50,701 --> 00:51:54,000
of the second season
with the Sangheili dialogue.

773
00:51:54,001 --> 00:52:00,500
And, um, I messaged him and I said,
all that time off we had is gone because

774
00:52:00,501 --> 00:52:03,200
it's going to, this is going
to take us a couple of days.

775
00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:04,200
And sure enough, it did.

776
00:52:04,201 --> 00:52:08,100
Um, like we, we had it down to
a science with the first season.

777
00:52:08,101 --> 00:52:10,800
We, we, we would have the script.

778
00:52:10,801 --> 00:52:12,100
I would pull the information.

779
00:52:12,101 --> 00:52:16,600
And once that was pulled, it would
maybe take us an hour to two hours to

780
00:52:16,601 --> 00:52:20,200
really go through and punch out
all the dialogue that we needed.

781
00:52:20,201 --> 00:52:26,200
Um, and that was partly because I had
done some work prior to those sessions

782
00:52:26,201 --> 00:52:30,200
of him and I sitting down where I would,
excuse me, develop some potential

783
00:52:30,201 --> 00:52:33,200
with it, vocabulary based
on the needs of the script.

784
00:52:33,201 --> 00:52:38,700
Um, when it came to that second season
and that, you know, the middle towards

785
00:52:38,701 --> 00:52:42,900
the middle of the second season
there, um, I was pretty well convinced.

786
00:52:42,901 --> 00:52:45,500
Yeah, we're going to need a couple of days.

787
00:52:45,501 --> 00:52:46,000
We did.

788
00:52:46,001 --> 00:52:51,100
We needed, I think, two full days,
uh, not full days, two days, two sessions

789
00:52:51,101 --> 00:52:53,700
that were a little longer than
normal to get all the way through.

790
00:52:53,701 --> 00:52:57,000
And that's, that's the
fun part though, to me.

791
00:52:57,001 --> 00:52:57,300
Right.

792
00:52:57,500 --> 00:52:59,249
I mean, it's really,
you really got to dig

793
00:52:59,250 --> 00:53:01,700
deep and you really got
to develop new words.

794
00:53:01,701 --> 00:53:02,000
Okay.

795
00:53:02,001 --> 00:53:03,400
Is this going to work grammatically?

796
00:53:03,401 --> 00:53:05,800
You know, do we need a new ending here?

797
00:53:05,801 --> 00:53:08,400
Do we have the right kind
of conjugation going on?

798
00:53:08,401 --> 00:53:13,428
Um, it can, it can get kind of hairy.

799
00:53:13,861 --> 00:53:18,195
I say this a lot and I, I,
I mentioned this on my

800
00:53:18,220 --> 00:53:21,609
stream because I was doing
some, some, uh, translation.

801
00:53:21,634 --> 00:53:26,729
If you've done your work right on a
conlang translation should be hard.

802
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:33,000
It should take, it should take effort
to do it because if you've done it right,

803
00:53:33,001 --> 00:53:38,500
and it's not like meant to be close
to English at all, then you're going to

804
00:53:38,501 --> 00:53:42,500
have to like rewrite parts
of it to make it make sense.

805
00:53:42,501 --> 00:53:43,100
Right?

806
00:53:43,101 --> 00:53:44,200
No, I agree with you.

807
00:53:44,201 --> 00:53:45,800
I totally agree with that.

808
00:53:45,801 --> 00:53:52,300
And David and I, there were a couple of
instances where we would be doing some

809
00:53:52,301 --> 00:53:55,100
dialogue and we'd have to go
back and say, you know what?

810
00:53:55,101 --> 00:54:00,400
No, we have to, this one's, we got
the right verb, but we conjugated it with

811
00:54:00,401 --> 00:54:04,100
the wrong ending or we didn't, we didn't
put it in the interrogative or something

812
00:54:04,101 --> 00:54:06,846
to that effect, uh, when
it should be based on the

813
00:54:06,847 --> 00:54:09,400
way Sangheili works,
not the way English works.

814
00:54:09,401 --> 00:54:09,700
Right.

815
00:54:09,701 --> 00:54:12,374
And in my own work,
I've had to do that too.

816
00:54:12,687 --> 00:54:12,949
Yeah.

817
00:54:12,974 --> 00:54:17,100
You know, you go, you go through and
you practice and you, you try different,

818
00:54:17,101 --> 00:54:22,500
different phrases and you sort of, um,
exercise those grammatical muscles, if

819
00:54:22,501 --> 00:54:25,500
you will, and, uh, that's
when you get better at it.

820
00:54:25,501 --> 00:54:25,700
Yeah.

821
00:54:25,701 --> 00:54:26,653
I agree with you.

822
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:28,414
Yeah.

823
00:54:28,439 --> 00:54:28,600
Yeah.

824
00:54:28,601 --> 00:54:31,000
It's, it's, it's, it's a whole process.

825
00:54:31,001 --> 00:54:37,300
And like, you know, sometimes you
might have to break things up or rearrange

826
00:54:37,301 --> 00:54:43,969
sentences and stuff and get
in and, or use, do use different,

827
00:54:43,970 --> 00:54:47,200
different kinds of words
that they used in the original.

828
00:54:47,201 --> 00:54:47,400
Huh.

829
00:54:47,401 --> 00:54:51,944
Um, but anyway, that it's
been really great talking to you.

830
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,900
Um, and I will link, I'm going
to link to, you've got like several

831
00:54:56,901 --> 00:55:02,200
Fiat Lingua articles too, uh, including
a grammar and two different writing

832
00:55:02,201 --> 00:55:09,000
systems that I'll link to and, um,
Halo it's on Paramount Plus if you got

833
00:55:09,001 --> 00:55:19,556
Paramount Plus. Warning, it is military
sci-fi, so it is fairly gory, and so

834
00:55:19,843 --> 00:55:23,900
Well I very much I appreciate being, uh,
being on your show here, George.

835
00:55:23,901 --> 00:55:27,000
Uh, I watch, I watch
every week, not always live.

836
00:55:27,001 --> 00:55:30,500
Sometimes I have to watch it later
after you posted it, uh, based on my

837
00:55:30,501 --> 00:55:35,023
own schedule, but, uh, it's a really good
show and I appreciate very much being on.

838
00:55:35,976 --> 00:55:36,491
Yeah.

839
00:55:36,516 --> 00:55:37,400
Well, um, thank you.

840
00:55:37,401 --> 00:55:46,500
And, um, before you go, is there anything
else you would like to, um, to, uh, say

841
00:55:46,501 --> 00:55:50,174
just any advice you'd like to give
to all the conlangers out there?

842
00:55:50,608 --> 00:55:52,100
Uh, never stop learning.

843
00:55:52,101 --> 00:55:58,500
Um, if you, if you have questions, ask
people, ask folks like George, myself,

844
00:55:58,501 --> 00:56:02,900
David, uh, if we can respond, we will,
and we'll give you as much help as we can.

845
00:56:02,901 --> 00:56:07,766
Uh, that's the whole point of conlanging
is to learn and to develop your skills.

846
00:56:09,106 --> 00:56:09,393
Yeah.

847
00:56:09,453 --> 00:56:14,075
Well, uh, with that, uh, I'm going to
say thank you, Carl, for coming on.

848
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:22,398
Um, and, uh, and sharing with us a little
bit about your work and happy conlanging.

849
00:56:22,578 --> 00:56:27,000
Thank you so much for listening
to, or watching Conlangery.

850
00:56:27,001 --> 00:56:31,700
If you're on YouTube, hit
the like and subscribe buttons.

851
00:56:31,701 --> 00:56:39,200
And, uh, thank you especially
to my patrons over on Patreon.

852
00:56:39,201 --> 00:56:41,100
You can go join them.

853
00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:45,659
If you like, you can
get, uh, early episodes

854
00:56:45,660 --> 00:56:48,600
and some special content
for Tongues and Runes.

855
00:56:48,601 --> 00:56:52,700
But to thank all of them properly.

856
00:56:52,701 --> 00:57:04,359
Mintaka, Connor Stuart Roe,
Kenan Kigunda, Alex Rossell Hayes,

857
00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:16,100
Jesse, Kay, Vyren Patrick, Alexis
Hugelman, Anthony Dosimo, Artifexian,

858
00:57:16,101 --> 00:57:24,500
Cassandra Woodhouse, Grakkagrunk,
Grammar Antifa, Eloyvar Yana-Mantuleon,

859
00:57:24,501 --> 00:57:34,400
Jack Keynes, Jake Penny, Miles
Wronkovich, Niklas Nordblad,

860
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:46,100
our table, Paul Roser, Sigourney Hunter,
Sylvia Sotomayor, and Wuming Shuai.

861
00:57:46,101 --> 00:57:48,000
Thank you.

862
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,200
Conlangery's theme music is by Null Device.

863
00:57:54,201 --> 00:58:01,000
Conlangery is distributed under
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864
00:58:01,001 --> 00:58:05,800
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865
00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:13,900
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