This is Laura Ddo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr. Russell Horton,
medical Director of Clinical Innovation with Banner Innovation Group,
part of Banner Health. Dr. Horton,
it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
Yeah, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Now, I know we have a lot to talk about.
Banner is such an innovative health system,
and definitely I'm excited to dig into some of the things that you're working on
right now and really how you're seeing healthcare move and evolve.
But before we dive into my questions,
can you tell me a little bit more about yourself and your background?
Yeah, happy to. Uh, I'm a general pediatrician by training, um,
and did all my training out here in Arizona and, uh,
joined Banner about 10 years ago in clinical practice and then moving into sort
of physician leadership roles. Uh, did that for a while and,
and really loved it. And then, um,
as we went through covid started to work more with the Banner Innovation Group a
little bit, and, uh, when an opportunity came open as their medical director, I,
I jumped on that. And, um, you know,
the Banner Innovation Group's role within Banner Health Banner's,
a large health system. We're in six states, primarily Arizona. And, uh,
our role as the innovation group is to try to help, uh,
look at solutions for today's problems that are forward thinking and innovative,
but also, um, help to find solutions that we may need in 10 years.
And, um, to help drive some of what we do with the strategy, what we do with,
uh, venture investing, what we do with, um, piloting, testing new technologies,
partnerships we wanna form with other companies. Um, so it's a wide, uh,
kind of swath of what we are involved in. And as the medical director,
my role is to really bring some clinical perspectives to what
the group is doing to make sure that we're clinically relevant,
that the voice of the clinicians and our clinical staff is really being heard,
um, at a, at a more corporate level.
And so I'm really honored to be that voice for the group, and I'm really, uh,
doing some exciting things here.
Well, that's awesome to hear. And, you know,
definitely seems like a really great place to be kind of in that intersection
between the clinical care as well as the innovation, the technology,
and really seeing, you know, where healthcare is headed. Given your role,
where do you see some of the big opportunities really for Banner and healthcare
in general, as well as the headwinds that you have your eye on right now?
Yeah, I think the opportunities are, are numerous, um,
the healthcare landscape as it's changed in the past few years and more, uh,
competitors have gotten into this arena. And certainly, you know,
we had the Covid pandemic,
but also just everyday challenges that come up has really pushed us to,
to look at where our opportunities might be, not in the typical areas. Um,
so outside of just typical, we provide care, we deliver it,
and we get paid for it, you know, we wanna look outside of that. So, um,
I think an area that is certainly not, uh, news to anybody maybe,
but that is huge for the, uh, a large health system like us, is our data.
You know, we have a lot of data, we have a lot of patients, and we've, um,
helped them through a lot of things. And that's created this huge map.
And what's really cool about it is that if we can harness that in the right way,
and we can bring it into all the aspects of what we do,
it really just makes us better, more efficient, uh,
better providers for our patients. And so, um,
I see that as a huge area where we can, um,
really set banner up to be ready for whatever comes our way,
because we know what it means and how to deal with it. Um, so,
uh, we also have a, uh, a,
a really cool arm of our health system that's our insurance division,
and that is, uh, looking to help how, you know,
how do we become a payer as well as a provider,
and how do we, uh,
clinically integrate those together so that we are providing the best experience
for our patients so that we are providing the best value-based care for our
patients. Um, and that we really create, uh,
what we like to think of as a truly integrated, uh,
health system so that we are helping you through every part of that journey,
not just one piece.
And I think that's what a health system will set up well to do. So those are,
are opportunities that I think have a lot of, um,
of reach and importance for us. And so, um, we're looking at that, uh,
very closely. You know, you mentioned headwinds. I think that as a clinician,
the first thing that I think about, of course, is staffing and our people. Um,
a lot of things have moved virtually or automated or AI driven,
but really it's about people. And so, um,
at Banner we have some of the best, um, clinical staff and, and, um,
operations leaders and providers that you can find. But you know,
they can only do so much, right?
And so we wanna make sure that we're setting up our teams to be successful.
And where the innovation group and my role really comes in is what is the role
of a provider? What's the top of our license, as we say,
and how do we make sure that our, our nurses, our MAs, our case managers,
our doctors, our nurse practitioners, uh, PAs,
everyone involved in care of a patient is really operating at the top of that
license. And so, um, where can we automate and innovate those things?
Where can we bring in, you know,
AI or a new company or a software to really help drive, um,
those staff members to be doing what they love and what they're best at,
and not being mired in the kind of small tasks that take up so much time,
but, um, they don't necessarily need to be doing, um, all day long.
So, um, I think that, uh, it's going to, it, it's a great opportunity,
but it is gonna be a headwind to try to think about as staffing becomes more of
a challenge, how do we, um,
find ways to push back on that and make sure that we are, of course,
bringing in new people all the time,
but also really helping the people we have to, to love their job.
That's so fascinating, and I think especially the last thing you mentioned, um,
making sure that people love their job and getting them to a space where they
remember why they got into healthcare and,
and really the impact that they're having.
Is there anything that you're doing right now differently at Banner, uh,
to really help people, uh, you know, remember these things and,
and fall back in love with what it means to be in healthcare in a healthcare
provider? Or, you know,
how do you go about that in the current climate of healthcare in,
in given the tools that we have?
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. And it, it's a, it,
it's a challenge with a lot of different answers, I think. And so, uh,
not to say that we've, we've got every single answer, but I think we've got a,
a, a good sense of where we want to go. And, you know,
part of the Banner Innovations group job in the last couple years was helping
Banner develop its strategic plan, right? What are the pillars of,
of what we do and how we want to do it. First, we help create a vision,
which is to be the most trusted healthcare partner for our patients.
But then now this strategic planning and one of our pillars, um,
there's three main pillars is is called one team. And our,
our one team pillar really is about what you just said,
which is we want teams to feel connected, teams to feel supported.
We want our staff at every level to feel like they're part of something that's
big and great and, and working for the greater good. Um,
and supporting them in that way is huge. You know, I think, um,
just to pull out one example, I, I think the world of nursing is,
is woefully underrepresented in a lot of ways,
but especially when it comes to innovative technology, right? There's not,
um, there's a, there's a lot of things out there that will, um, allow, uh,
doctors and nurse practitioners and, and those types of providers to,
to streamline their day, to have better help through technology.
Nurses are still kind of out there just really slogging through it,
and they've got a really hard job,
and our nurses do an amazing job at what they do, but, you know,
could we help them more? And so I think on a, on a lot of levels, uh,
it's about saying, Hey, we're trying to help. Give us some time.
Let us work on it. We want your input. Uh,
we want to know how you feel about this.
And so we're always talking with the people in the field, right?
We don't wanna just stand up on a mountain and proclaim things because that,
that doesn't tend to lead to great results. So, um, you know, I think for us,
it's been great to help develop that strategy for the health system and then
also now be able to look at, okay, how do we actually do that?
And I think nurses are a great example.
Lots of other examples of the course out there, but that's, um, you know,
a big one at top of mind, I think.
Certainly. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
And that's so helpful to know and think through. Um, especially I, I,
I think every organization is really seeing similar things with our nurses,
so I appreciate, uh, your ideas and expertise there. Now,
when you think about, um, your role and,
and you've talked through some of the ways that you're continuing to grow and
add value to Banner overall,
but is there anything else that you really wanna share with us? And,
and how do you really make sure that any of your initiatives or projects that
you're working on really continue to add value overall?
Yeah, I,
I think one of the first things just to like zoom out a little bit
on that question, um,
would be to really embrace what we're seeing with competition from other
areas, right? Because that, that competition from every,
everyone from Amazon to Walmart, Walgreen, you know, insurance pay writers, and,
um, we've got, uh, you know, best Buy jumping into healthcare. And, you know,
I think a lot of that kind of pushes me and our teams to think more
about how do we create new opportunities for ourself.
Cuz when I heard that Best Buy was going into healthcare, right?
I was thinking like, you know,
that's where I bought a DVD player in the nineties, and like,
why are they doing healthcare? But when I thought about it a little more,
it really makes sense and I, I, I feel like, um,
they are doing what we are trying to do, which is how can we get it,
provide better care to the people that we want to provide care to? And so, uh,
I try to look at it from a, a lens of, you know,
there's a lot of things happening out in the world in healthcare,
and that's hopefully pushing us and honing us into something even sharper. Um,
so, uh, that's kind of a, a zoomed out view. But then like, moving in,
I think what we want to do is really make sure that we are, um,
creating value-based care structures that matter and that are important for our,
our patients and the people that we care for and their families.
And that we are trying to be prepared for that in every way. So having the,
the, um, IT infrastructure, having the right kind of, um,
staff capabilities,
having the right kind of department set up so that we have this insurance
division and we have risk-based contracts and we have, uh,
value-based care that's kind of keeps creeping in little by little every year,
but are we gonna be ready for when that finally happens? And so I,
I think that's a great area for us to really grow and add value is,
is literally through value-based care, um,
because we all know it's coming and we have to be ready to, um,
to kind of have everything in place ahead of time because, you know,
there's still a lot of fee for service happening out there. But I,
I do think that Banner is really trying to be proactive in
this area so that we are creating value for our patients before we're forced to
do it. And so that we are, are not, um,
kind of struggling to play catch up when that time comes. You know,
I think another area that's,
that's really cool and something that we're working on right now and,
and as a system, but, uh, we've been tasked with a few,
a few challenges in the innovation group is, uh, to help, you know,
how do we build out what the hospital or the,
the hospital campus really of the future looks like. Um,
I think as these competitors that I was talking about have,
have brought new light to healthcare,
it's really shown how we as health systems are, are I think, set up,
um,
really succeed in this area because we are part of this community
where we've been around for a while, we're a trusted name, but, um, you know,
they, competitors like Amazon or Walmart are, have really created a,
a consumerism model that has taught people how to look
for all things in their life as what's the best gonna be for me, for my family,
um, and how can you provide me the best service that allows me to live the best
kinda life that I wanna live, right? And so what we're trying to design with,
with sort of a hospital campus of the future is how do we create that new space,
um, because we're always gonna need a physical space in healthcare,
even though so much of it can be done virtually, and that's great,
but we're still gonna need physical spaces. Um,
and how do we design that so that, you know,
we're at the leading edge of what it means to be involved in your healthcare,
where it's comfortable, where it's inviting, where it's convenient as as can be,
and where you're going through maybe one of the hardest experiences of your
life, um, or of a family member's life,
but you feel like you're in a place that's safe and welcoming and is, and,
and you feel like you're in the right place. Um,
and so we're really excited to be working on some of that work as well within
the innovation group and, and, and all that that entails.
Absolutely. I think that's a really great point, and definitely getting,
you know, as you mentioned, uh,
a headstart on the work environment and the things that are really gonna be
important and beneficial to healthcare providers and workers, you know,
in the value-based environment is so crucial and so critical.
And it's great that, um, you at Banner have so much, uh,
of that data and information that you're able to, uh, utilize, I'm sure,
and leverage for some of the things that you're working on. And you know, too,
as you've been talking through,
we've talked about some of the workforce shortages and some of the challenges,
um, that, that organizations are going through on a large scale, but you know,
certainly that you're experiencing too, uh, with, with the current environment.
So given the limited healthcare resources, whether it's the workforce or, um,
on the financial side,
where do you see as being an important area to continue to innovate and,
and take risks and, and make investments, um,
even in a year that's a little bit challenging for most?
Yeah. Um,
I think that certainly streamlining processes
for our clinical teams is, is important. And again, you know, my,
my bias is towards the clinical team, of course, but, um,
I do think that as resources become stretched pretty thin and,
you know, there's a doctor shortage, there's a nursing shortage,
and there has been for a while,
and there unfortunately probably will be for a while,
we have to make sure that we are really, um,
designing workflows and technology for those people on the front
lines so that their day is moving smoothly. Um,
they can see all the patients they want to see,
they can add in a patient if they need to because they know that we've got their
back when it comes to better documentation, um,
better coverage of all the different things they have to ACO measures and
value-based care metrics and all the things that we also have to do, you know,
answering messages, refilling prescriptions, um, you know,
checking on a call light in the hospital. All this stuff, um, is,
is an investment, but I think has to be made because one, um,
someone will do it and we don't wanna lose people to,
to another organization that has decided to be more, you know, more on the, uh,
front edge of that. Um, but I think it's also about, um,
making sure that we are, um, investing in,
in things that maybe don't always have the, the biggest, um,
ROI or the biggest kind of huge revenue impact number. Um, you know,
we take a lot of pitches from a lot of companies and, um,
that's always part of it, and that's important. You know,
we need to make sure we can keep the doors open, keep the lights on, but, um,
I think what we're gonna see is that it's gonna be hard to quantify the return
on really investing in your staff in a monetary way. Um,
and so, you know, there's ways to do it,
and I think there's a lot of great companies out there trying to do that. Um,
but I think it will be a risk, it will be a little bit of a,
a leap of faith to say, you know, um,
we need to do this because it's what's gonna make us continue to be a great care
provider. And, um, I think, uh, that I,
that banner is trying to do that in, in a responsible way, um,
because there's a lot of people's lives that, uh, depend on banner, uh,
from within and from without. And so, um, it,
it's an interesting time certainly to be in this space because there's a lot of,
of changes and a lot of, uh, cool things coming our way and,
and we're just trying to sort those out.
Absolutely. I, I think that's such an important point. And, you know,
looking through, um, ways to keep your eye on the future and what's going to,
you know, what you still need to build and, and grow, how do you, uh,
think about that and measure some of those things that can be hard to see an
immediate return on investment,
but you know that down the line it is gonna make, uh,
the organization even stronger a as we move forward and, you know,
ideally get out of some of the challenges that we're in today.
Yeah, yeah. And this is where I think data really comes back into the picture.
I mean, it never really left the picture, but it, it's certainly there is, is,
um, the better we understand how all the different little cogs of,
of this big machine move and work and interact with each other,
the better we can create, um, sort of a model of, hey, you know,
if you gave a nurse some time back,
or if you had a doctor who didn't have to spend so much time documenting,
or you could do this procedure virtually at home, um,
how would that impact, you know, the office so there are more rooms open, um,
if those rooms are open, can we see more patients and help more people,
you know? And, and, um, that's really,
I think one of the things we're trying to get is that easy access to
understanding all the things that maybe we didn't have to think about before.
You know, a lot of,
a lot of infrastructures is put into place for all of us years
before, and, um, some of this stuff wasn't even on the horizon yet,
and now we're having to think about it. But I think it is, it is possible.
And I think that if we are smart about it, and I think, um,
like banners trying to do with a group like ours and with these strategic
pillars, you know, building on the, like I, the idea of one team,
like we talked about, we want to be a personalized, integrated, easy to access,
um, company for our patients. We want our, um, covered lives, our,
our insurance members to feel like they are part of, um,
a really easy flow chart that's gonna move them from their insurance selection
all the way through their care for their whole life. You know,
and those pillars really drive a lot of what we do.
And so we're trying to make sure that on both sides of that we're creating the
future. And, and I think, um, I think we are.
Absolutely. I, I love it. And that's just so helpful to the, to think about and,
um, you know, really keep an eye on the future and,
and know how important that is. Before we wrap up our conversation,
I wanted to dig a little bit deeper along those lines.
Where do you see big opportunities for growth and development,
whether it's within your role or the teams you work with over the next two to
three years as healthcare continues to evolve and change?
Yeah, I, boy, I think there's probably a lot of answers there. Um,
I, I would say that for me clinically and in my role,
I, I really want to see us, um,
make that investment in, um, helping, uh,
the clinical providers that we have really streamline what they do and decrease
the burnout. That is such a problem now. Um, and you know, as you know,
as most people know, um, healthcare burnout is a real problem.
And so I, I wanna make sure that we're doing everything we can to do that.
And I think the way we do that is, is everything we've been talking about. But,
um, I, I feel like, um,
what we are hopefully gonna be doing, um, within our group is,
is helping to create a streamlined path for innovation, right?
I think that every health system, uh, everyone, you know, in all,
all fields of, of business really, um, want to innovate,
want to be at the cutting edge of the future. And,
and that's great what we want to do, um,
because we are such a large health system and we have so many different delivery
areas for care, so many different, um, ways that we touch people's lives,
uh, I think a, a cool area for us and for me and our team is gonna be, um,
how we create sort of this fast lane to innovation, right?
And how we create a streamlined process where we are working well with our IT
teams. We have great IT teams, but they get a lot put on them.
And so how do we make sure that we're bringing them things in the right way with
the right information they need? How do we, you know,
access the data we have in the right way? How do we, um,
take the infrastructure we have and um, and keep
remolding that into, into something that's nimble and adaptable for the future?
And so we're really trying to create that lane where, um, and I, uh,
one of my colleagues, uh, calls it the fast lane. And,
and I think that's exactly what we want it to be, right? That we have an idea,
or a company or a project or someone from our insurance division
comes to us and says, Hey, you know, we, we'd really love to be better at this.
And we, we just go, we hit the gas pedal and,
and we start figuring out what it's gonna be. Um,
that's gonna take some time and that's gonna take a, a, a lot of work.
But I think we're certainly at banners set up to do that, uh, and to see us, um,
just even more leading the way into the future.
I love that.
That's such an amazing message and I can imagine inspires many within the
organization. And Dr. Horton,
thank you so much for joining us for this podcast episode.
I really appreciate your time, and it's been great hearing from you.
It's been great. Thank you so much.
Absolutely.
And I know we'll talk through many of these themes further at our Health IT
digital Health and Revenue Cycle event in October. Um,
I'm excited to see you there. I think it'll be a lot of fun and, and definitely,
um, a great time to just keep an eye on, you know,
innovation and technologies and where the field is headed.
Yeah. I, I can't wait. I hope to see lots and lots of people there to,
to keep pushing us into the future.