It's so important for leaders at the top of organizations to keep learning,
stay sharp, grow their networks,
help our audience better do this in a more simplified, personalized,
and meaningful way. Becker's Healthcare has launched my bhc,
it's your trusted Becker's healthcare experience and more with content,
connections, events and learning opportunities.
Join the community free of charge@www.my dot becker's hospital
review.com and we'll see you there.
This is s Hatton with the Becker's Dental O Podcast.
I'm thrilled to be joined today by Jonathan Mason,
chief Clinical Officer at Select Dental Management. Jonathan,
thank you so much for being here today.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Great. Could you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your background?
Yeah. Um, so yeah, my name's John Mason. Um, I'm a general dentist. I have,
I graduated dental school in 2006, um,
was in private practice in Connecticut with my father for eight years,
and then bought a private practice my own in Manchester,
Vermont about seven and a half years ago. Um, two years into that journey,
after greatly improving my own practice,
I decided to partner with a childhood friend of mine, Elliot Zabel,
who is our ceo o and we co-founded Select Dental Management together, um,
a a partnership model Dsso, where, you know,
our goal was really to partner with like-minded growth-oriented
dentists who were really running great practices, um, that wanted to continue,
you know, to have a value add partner, continue to grow their practice, um,
let us help them not only grow the practice that they're in,
but also transition into younger dentists, um, you know, practice growth,
whether it's, you know, adding into operatories, adding up procedures, um,
whatever it may be. Um, and as a partnership model, we really developed, uh,
individual kind of, you know,
treatment plans for each office that we partner with. Um,
we are now about five years into our journey.
We have 40 practices and that we, you know, that we are partnered with. Um,
and, you know, it continues to, to be going great. Um, I serve now, you know,
not only the co-founder, but I serve as the chief clinical officer and, um,
overseeing all of the, the, you know, the entire clinical entity. Um, you know,
whether it's doctors, whether it's hygienists, um,
people on our leadership team,
and really making sure that we are instituting the standard of care within all
of our practices and helping to maximize opportunities within each one of our
practices throughout our portfolio.
Fantastic. Thanks for sharing. And I know you mentioned Elliot. He's great. Um,
I'm wondering, what was it, what's it like working with your childhood friend?
It's pretty, it is been pretty fun. Um,
especially a childhood friend that did not know anything about dentistry, uh,
to start with.
And I know you guys have talked to him and many people listening to this.
I've also talked to him. He knows a lot about dentistry,
especially about the business of dentistry and running and,
and running dental practices. Um,
he will tell you I'm not the most business oriented dentist.
I am a wet figure dentist that really has just was taught by my dad just to
kind of treat patients right and successful follow from there. I'd love to,
I'd love getting you new skills, and that's really been the basis of my success.
And, um, it's been really fun having a friend that's really finance oriented,
um, you know, into the numbers, seeing how trends work and really understanding,
I guess, you know,
you can look back on the numbers in my practice and see how successful it's
been, but also how we can help drive growth, um, in our other practices. Um,
but it's been good, you know, it's really good having a childhood friend.
We've actually known each other since kindergarten, um,
and having a childhood friend that, um, you know, I can be honest with,
I can be open with . Um, I'm not worried, you know,
he offends me all the time. I offend him all the time.
Having that kind of relationship is really impactful in terms of growth and be,
you know, being able to be honest with each other about what we're doing. Um,
you know, we do live kind of far away. We live a few states away,
so I don't see him as much, but obviously my calls him, um,
constantly throughout the week. So, um, it's been great. It's been a,
it's been a really, it's been a really fun journey and, uh, yeah, hopefully,
you know, it's, we have,
we haven't run into too many issues between us cause we really tend to serve
slightly different things, but I,
he's learned so much about dentistry and really understands what it takes to,
to, you know, to run a successful practice.
That's awesome. I think, I think we all need a friendship like that ,
so.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, it's, it's, it's been great.
Yeah. , so diving into my first question here,
what are the biggest issues you're following in dental today?
You know, I think the big, I mean the biggest issue, the stuff that's come,
come around that,
that every is on everyone's radar is the economy and is the bank's lending,
I mean, when it really comes to, to the dsso space and,
and acquiring practices, the, the amount of,
of change within the lending space, um, increased rates, um,
decreased leverage, leverage amounts, that's really, you know, in my opinion,
affected the, the outward growth that, um,
that we're able to do in terms of acquisitions and things like that.
So I don't know what the future's gonna be. I mean, there's one aspect of the,
of, of the financial issue, which is what I just mentioned.
And the other aspect is are the, you know,
are the patients gonna start closing up their, you know, their pocket books?
Are they gonna stop spending on, you know, back in two,
I came into dentistry back in 2008, which was, you know,
the great recession and there was a lot of,
of expenditures that people were not doing right. Cosmetic cases, ortho,
stuff like that. Really elective procedures when were,
were gone for four or five years in dentistry. Um,
and I was right in the beginning of my career as I was growing. Um,
and you know, there, I,
we have not seen that come to fruition within our practices.
We've been at multiple meetings and other groups are not seeing it as well,
but obviously that that isn't big concern that's on a horizon.
So I think for us, in order to mitigate that risk at the practice level,
really getting back to basics, right?
Getting back to preventative dentistry stuff that we're, we're sort of a mix.
We have a lot of full for full fee for service practices minus as well.
So not as in tuned into insurances,
but we have plenty of practices that have our, you know,
in network with a lot of PPOs. But stuff that, you know,
even the insurance covers, you know, proper radiographs, fluoride sealants,
preventative measures, um,
really getting patients on board with the kind of dentistry that,
that we're tr that we're trying to, um,
promote throughout our practices is our way of kind of hedging that and making
sure that, um, you know, that these type of,
that whatever's gonna happen in the financial world,
whatever people spending is gonna be, will hopefully not, you know,
hit us as hard.
But obviously that's something that I think we're all concerned about,
but we really haven't seen it happen right now.
And I think we just had our best first quarter ever in the history of the
company. I know in my own practice, um, I had my best first quarter ever.
And so the, we're kind of waiting for that shooter drop, but it hasn't yet.
And so, um,
really getting all of our practices on board and maintaining all this preventive
care for patients, getting things early before they become much,
much bigger procedures and,
and being able to discuss that with patients is how we're, you know,
how we're approaching, um, you know, our dentistry and our practices right now.
Fantastic. And congratulations on, uh,
for both you and select for having your best, uh, Q1 ever.
Yeah, thanks. It's kind of, it's, it's kind of been, it's, it's, it's been nice.
It's been a good, good, good first start of the year, so hopefully we can,
we can continue, continue to maintain it.
Well, that's great. Thank you. My next question is,
what are you most excited about and what makes you nervous?
So, I mean, I think the excitement, I'm really,
really big into digital dentistry. Um,
and I've not taken pretty much not taken a analog impression in
about 10 years. So I have multiple scanners in my practice.
We are really big on putting iTeros and other scanners into practices depending
on what the practices do they do. Invisalign, Xero, if they don't,
we we'll use a, a competiting, um, scanner that I feel, you know,
might be better for, for restorative work.
But really getting into the digital workflow is the most exciting thing for me.
And I know a lot of DSOs are doing it. They've put in, you know, some,
some are milling in the offices, some aren't milling in the offices. Um,
but having that really changes the patient experience. And so we've got, we're,
we've been piloting, um, artificial intelligence on x-rays,
I think from a dsso space that, that is, to me, that is really,
really exciting to get people on board. We have 12 practices doing it right now.
I've been using it for about six months. Um, I think as, as we grow and we have,
we have about 150 clinicians in our network,
being able to really standardize what's being done, what doctors are seeing, um,
it's busy during the day. Many of, you know, you're checking patients, you,
you know, I have 15, 20 patients in my schedule.
I'm checking 15 to 20 hygiene patients today. There's a lot going on.
Having that AI, being able to help us read the x-rays,
being able to confirm what we're seeing or not seeing, um,
is there as well as identifying opportunities for us to be able to treat. Um,
I think it's really, really exciting. And I think that, um,
there's a lot of underdiagnosed care, um, that's going on,
and I think that that's gonna help to solve that. And really, again,
cre being able to treat things while it's small,
the AI seems to pick up on a lot of smaller things.
And I've gone into a lot of cavities and we've taken a look at patient's perio,
and they're there. I really am trusting the, the computer, um,
as well as verifying on, on my own, um, imaging system. Um, but for me,
that's been really, really effective.
And I think getting after things when they're smaller is gonna really help the
patient care that we're delivering.
As well as looking at it from a more centralized DSO space,
being able to standardize slash regularly and also kind of audit at the practice
levels about what our doctors are seeing and what they're doing to make sure
that, that they're doing the right work. And so for me, that's,
that's the kind of most, that's the most exciting thing. Um, digital dentistry,
everybody, you know, is here, especially with the scanners and, and, you know,
and crowns and bridges and everything like that. Being able to scan for, um,
as well as the, um, as well as the, uh,
the patient experience. Something like Ontario really, you know,
rather than taking all these photographs, which used to take a quick scan,
patients are wowed by it. They love it, they love seeing their teeth and,
you know, it generates a lot of questions from them about different issues,
especially occlusal issues. Um, a ton of post covid,
just a ton of bism and occlusal issues and broken teeth, um,
that it's slowed down a little bit, but we're still, we're still seeing, um,
a lot of that, um, in terms of what I'm, what I'm worried about,
concerned about. Um, you know, it's, it's, uh, I think that,
um, I don't have too many worries right now. I think we've really established a,
a really great program, um, in terms, you know, for our doctors and,
and create a really good reputation. Um, but being able to, I think it's really,
really hard in order to properly ramp younger doctors into doing the kind,
you know, becoming the dentist that they wanna become. Um, you know,
getting them the proper training, getting them the proper ce, um, you know,
being able as a company to get them to where they wanna be, where they wanna be,
super gps. Um, you know, that's always kind of on my mind and that's,
they're very, very difficult in my opinion to develop that program, um,
because each doctor is so individual. So it's always that,
that to me is always one of the bigger things that we knock our heads against.
So how do we develop a great program for training our dentist,
getting them up to speed on procedures they wanna do, what companies we,
we can partner with to help us do that? Um, and so, you know,
that's always kind of at the, at the back of my mind, always,
always a concern of mine. Um, you know, trying to recruit,
trying to hire a younger dentist and, you know,
really be able to put them through,
through a great program to get them the training, um, that they need.
I'm, I'm curious, what do you think is,
is holding those young dentists back from, from reaching, um, that,
that growth potential that you're talking about?
I honestly think it's a little bit of a mindset. Um, there's, we worked hard,
I worked really, really hard for, I still worked hard, but, you know,
five to 10 years. It took a lot, you know, you know, the amount of, um,
the amount of hours, the amount of, you know, if you talk to the older dentist,
how much they worked the first five to 10 years outta practice, um, you know,
people see successful dentists, they see them working three, three days a week,
three and a half days a week. And I just think it's, it's, it's an expectation.
You can't be there when you're first a dentist. You need to work harder.
I don't believe in dentists working five days a week,
but maybe four and a half cuz you will burn out. But it takes a lot of effort,
it takes a lot of time.
You can't come outta dental school and be somebody that's, you know,
placing implants, restoring him, doing full mouth rehabs, doing all these,
all these constructive things. It takes a while to get there.
It takes five years, in my opinion, um, in order to get to,
to a point where you're comfortable and a ton of continued education.
And I think that that expectation that I'm realistic about what to expect,
and I think that there might be unrealistic expectations about where somebody
can get coming right out of school. Um, it takes a long time. You're working on,
on patients.
You're working on patients that don't necessarily love coming to the dentist.
Um, and so it takes a lot of patience. It takes diagnosing,
takes talking to people. Some of the bigger cases I've ever done.
I think I started talking with patients five years before I ever did 'em.
We were just talking about it, what's possible, right?
These patients aren't gonna say yes on the first day to a lot of things,
but understanding and keep on, you know,
discussing with them what the benefits are gonna be, um, and putting, you know,
the doctors need to put themselves through continuing education and it's a lot.
I I used to do a hundred, 150 hours a year of ce, um, went to spear, um,
did all sorts of conferences and, you know, that commitment to,
to growing and realizing it's gonna take five years, I think is important.
And I don't necessarily,
there are very few younger doctors that I see that are
like that to me understand that, um, that importance. I just had a,
a discussion with one of our young associates today,
and he went through kind of an implant, uh,
placement process that we did two years ago.
We did a lot of CE and we did a hands-on thing and he wasn't ready.
He was realistic. He's been working on his restorative, getting his speed up,
being more comfortable dealing with patients.
And he called me to this morning and he was like, Hey,
I'm ready to go start down this implant pathway and we're gonna put him through
another course. But it took him two years in order to get that. And I really,
I actually really, really appreciate that he was,
realized that he wasn't ready to get there yet and had the realistic
expectations of how long it'd taken to, to get those additive skills, um,
you know, under his, under his balance into his clinical repertoire.
Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. My last question for you is,
what will the most effective healthcare leaders need to be successful in the
next two to three years?
I mean, it comes, it comes down to to to really, you know, you know,
similar things. Um, one is gonna be really good financial partners. Um,
I think as we grow, having, having people to, to um,
understand, you know, having financial,
financial partners to really understand what the growth potential needs are
going to be and ones that want, want to go through that, um,
I think it's gonna take a lot of patience. So, um, you know,
one thing as the economy, we don't know what the economy's gonna do,
but if it does go down, then it's gonna be really important to,
to go within the practices and start really developing each practice.
We find ourselves to be a very much a value add partnership model.
So we don't just buy 'em and just let 'em be. Um, you know, I've heard,
I've heard of word invisible dsso. I had a meeting I had a few months ago.
I didn't actually, I don't really know what that is. Um, so, uh, you know,
for us,
we like to partner with doctors and we like to help them improve and identify
areas in the business that they're gonna improve.
So I think it's gonna be really, really important that, um,
all the DSOs really g kind of dive back into their practices and see where they
can maximize things, make things more efficient, um,
make them more profitable at a practice level. Um, and, you know,
while doing that and then going forward, you know, growth, acquisition, um,
you know, there's gonna be a lot of retiring doctors,
a lot of retiring doctors right now, um, or doctors willing, willing to sell.
You know, our, I think our,
I think our average age of these days that doctors we're partnering with and
practice are partnering with are in the low fifties, um,
which I would never have believed five years ago when we started this. Um,
there's a lot of doctors that want to continue to grow, continue to practice,
um, but they're younger and they're willing to stay in it.
So I think that having, having that mentality, um, of growing internally,
growing within the four walls of dental practices and putting in, you know,
the best, um, best practices, um, most, you know,
really streamlining profitability at the practice level is gonna be the most
important thing that people do in the next two to three years. Um, again, one,
it's great for business, it's great for valuations, um, and also hedges against,
you know, what could happen in the, in the financial economy outside of,
of what, of what we're doing in the dental industry.
Fantastic. Well, Jonathan,
thank you so much for your insights today and your time.
I look forward to connecting with you again in the future.
All right. You're welcome. Thank you very much.