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the description. We are excited to welcome you in October.
This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr. Jordan Dale, system, c m I o,
and hospitalist at Houston Methodist.
Jordan is a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
Thanks for having me.
Now, I know we've got a lot to talk about.
There's some fascinating things happening at Houston Methodist and really a,
a great opportunity right now in the healthcare space to implement some really
cool technologies. But before we dive into my questions,
can you tell me a little bit more about yourself and your background?
Yeah, absolutely, Laura. Um, I'm a biomedical engineer by training, uh,
that went into medicine as I saw the passion for patient care. And, um,
you know, when I was going through medical school,
it's when all the EHR implementations, um, started. So it kind of, uh,
struck me at,
at the right time and I was able to use some of my engineering background and,
uh, tech familiarness, uh, you know, to impact patient care on a broader scale.
Um,
so I've helped support clinical technology across health systems for the past 15
years. Um, and really passionate about it, about how it empowers our care teams,
uh, and our patients, uh, when it relates to their care.
That's a really, uh, great background in, in experiences to have,
and I can imagine in the last 15 years, the technology and adoption,
quite frankly has, has really changed and evolved.
Y Yeah, I would say the technology has certainly evolved. I,
I would say of my job, I think of, uh,
informatics kind of in the way that a lot of people in informatics do.
It's about people, process and technology.
I'd say that technology piece has gotten a lot easier. Um,
the people on process is still an opportunity for us to, you know, collaborate,
you know, on people. I think we still need to skill a lot of our clinicians, uh,
around what clinical informatics is and how they can use informatics and value
that and how they deliver patient care and,
and work with it and other stakeholders.
And then there's still a lot of processes that are being transformed across
healthcare, right? And some of those involve new or novel technology,
but a lot of them are just applying the existing technology in novel ways and
something we do a lot at Houston Methodist as well.
Absolutely. That's great to hear. It makes a lot of sense. Now.
What are some of the big opportunities that you're seeing,
especially at that intersection of clinical care and technology?
Could you tell me a little bit more about what you're doing at Houston Methodist
and then the headwinds that you have your eye on too?
Yeah, sure. I,
I mean some of the things that I think we learned through the pandemic and just
how out of the, um, nature and speed of,
of transformation at that time that we were successful was,
was really focused on virtualization. Um, so, you know,
telehealth is part of that,
but really virtualizing a lot of experiences using virtual nursing,
using other virtual services that can really be called in to, uh,
physical spaces, um, has really helped us in a lot of meaningful ways.
Um, and then centralizing some of those services or processes as well. Um,
and so on, on the virtual nursing end. Um,
we're very successful kind of building off of our virtual ICU platform that we,
uh, grew during the pandemic and,
and realizing the benefits of having somebody that was focused on a few tasks
was really skilled at those tasks,
but was kind of in a central location where they could, you know,
do that task across a broader, uh, care area or domain.
So the, our virtual nurses really focus on admission and discharge workflow. Um,
that can be, you know, kind of disruptive for a bedside nurse, um, you know,
when they're getting an admission discharge but also need to take care of their
patients that are, are still, you know, in the hospital.
So we were able to offload that task to our virtual nursing team. Um,
and I think both on the nursing side and the patient side,
the experience was wonderful. Um, you know,
there's some hesitancy at the beginning cuz it was a change and you know,
bedside nurses have been doing that task for forever, right? Um,
but it's really been eye-opening to us about how we can find a focused nurse on
a focused task. Uh, we get some time benefits, so we've reduced some of those,
uh,
tasks that were taking 40 minutes because a nurse may be disrupted or not be
focused on the task as, uh,
they're getting asked other questions across the other patients, uh,
down to 13 minutes. Um, and so we can really deliver that focused,
uh, and critical part in the care transition for a patient, um,
in a more high quality way with that, uh, technology.
And that really wasn't any novel technology.
I think we had a lot of that technology that we were using in other ways we just
thought of a different process and a transformation about how we're centralizing
those services. Uh, that's really been impactful.
So we've looked at a lot of services across our care domains that we could
virtualize and centralize. Um, and the centralization, right, helps focus,
like I mentioned, but also standardize, uh, some of that approach. And so,
you know, things like tele sitting, uh, could we virtualize, you know,
some pharmacy, um, interventions across our hospitals and, you know,
actively looking at ways that we could apply this in our ambulatory setting as
well. Um,
have started doing some work with centralizing refills and other kind of
administrative task rates that are difficult to really, um,
gain efficiency when you decentralize them, uh,
like they have been for for so long.
Got it. That makes a lot of sense. You know, it's fascinating to, to see how,
um, some of the ways where, like you said,
you can really apply the technologies to, um,
have more of a virtual nursing program or virtualized pharmacy that,
um, you know, really create the time efficiencies and are effective.
And I appreciate you touching on the culture element too because I think,
you know, that aspect of making a change really is, um,
sometimes more challenging than bringing on the technology and getting it all
work, right?
Is just to assure that team members that it'll be great and even potentially
have those time savings or they'll like it better the new way.
But it can certainly be scary I'm sure for some folks who are used to doing
something one way for a really long time.
Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think it's been, you know, it,
it took a lot of partnership and, um, guidance from, you know,
various stakeholders, uh, showcases with nursing and other, you know,
operational leaders to make them com comfortable with that transformation. Uh,
but like I said, now we've shown the benefit everybody's,
it's a win-win scenario and now kind of the sky's the limit cuz we've broke into
that, that culture shift just with this one, uh, approach.
And so it's helped us think about things that, you know, moving forward and uh,
one of the things that we're dedicated to at, at East Met this is,
is ambient intelligence, um, across a lot of our care domains.
So that's the other area where we might, uh, or we are actively using, uh,
things like computer vision within our inpatient rooms to track and
monitor things that, uh, again, were burdensome to our staff. Um, so again,
we had to really address, uh, concerns from a lot of different stakeholders.
Cause I think when you're putting a camera in the room that they're gonna be,
you know, viewed at all times. But it's really, you know,
I focus and I use that term computer vision intentionally cuz it really is that,
right? It's, it's looking and identifying a person or a patient, um,
it doesn't actually show, you know,
full video or anything like that so that we can use it in a way to track
processes,
to alarm patients that may be exiting beds or high risk for following.
Um, and so that really gives us a, a different layer of, uh,
intelligence that we otherwise wouldn't get unless we break through that kind of
comfort barrier, uh, that some other clinical teams have.
That's such a great point and definitely, you know,
awesome that you've been able to do that and really work with the team to gain
their trust and, and get some of the ball rolling on some of these things. Now.
I know it, it's definitely a lot happening, a lot of new technologies, a lot of,
uh, new capabilities coming through. How do you think about growth, uh,
from your perspective as C M I O and adding value to the organization overall?
What do you do to really make sure that the investments that you're making are,
are, uh, measurable and having impact at large?
Yeah, we have a very, I'd say through our center of innovation,
very structured group where we look at, um, you know,
technology in very focused areas at a smaller scale with,
with very specific, you know, ROI targets and KPIs. And,
but once those are achieved, um, we scale that very rapidly.
So I think that's just our engagement and support and the trust that we've
built. Um, I know, you know, we consider ourselves a,
an innovation organization, right? 30,000 employees.
Everybody's focused on innovation even though there might be a core set that's
really driving the things that we prioritize, um,
so we can engage and get that trust quickly if we're showing early results.
We also have the ability to, you know, fail fast and, and pivot, uh,
through that kind of focus group and evaluation. Um, so I think in terms of,
you know, growing and, and making sure that we're meeting the,
the needs of our health system strategy and value to our patients, um,
that's really helped us to do those early checks and then those early,
you know, KPIs or, uh,
targets that we're looking at are all really based on business still gonna give
us the same results at scale. Um, we really try to discourage things in,
in kind of silos or in very, you know, specific niche areas, uh,
cuz we wanna provide that benefit to all of our patients or all of our
clinicians. We know it has value.
So that's always a guiding principle when we start looking at, uh,
new technology or a process transformation.
Got it. I, I think that makes a lot of sense and I,
I love the methodical way that you really go about some of those, um, areas in,
in implementing the new technology and really thinking through how it makes
sense for the organization at large. Now, I know at this time in particular, um,
there resources overall but especially in healthcare are precious,
whether it's time or financial investments.
So what do you see as being one thing that is still very important to do this
year, whether it's a risk or investment or something that is worth doing on the
innovation side or otherwise, um,
that can really make a difference for patients or staff and team members?
Yeah, I, I think reducing, you know, workforce burden, um, you know,
before was, was something that was good to do to reduce burnout and retention.
Now it's essential. So I think we,
we look at all of this technology of how it's gonna reduce workforce,
workforce burden or help us scale, um, you know,
an outcome or achievement that we can make that really before was,
was tied to a, you know, uh,
a user and we could only get that benefit by scaling, uh, you know,
the workforce. We're really looking at things that can provide, you know,
extension of our workforce, uh, more rapidly or reduce that burden.
I think we're,
we're also very focused on still preserving that empathetic piece of healthcare
that, um, really technology should help support. Um,
so we definitely are not looking at things to, you know,
replace those types of experiences. Um,
that's why the transformation from the culture shift around virtual nursing and
helping nursing understand the benefit has been really impactful. You know,
they trust the virtual nurse to do their tasks,
but actually the bedside nurse gets more time to more meaningful conversations
with, you know, the patient because again, like I said,
they're spending 40 minutes on this task that now somebody's doing, you know,
for them and it's taking shorter amount of time. Uh,
so we're really bringing back some of that more meaningful interaction while
we're looking at the technology. So I would certainly recommend, you know,
it's those practice transformation things that you can use technology to drive,
but really encouraging your clinicians to kind of buy in to,
to breaking the status quo so you can reduce that burden, uh,
redesign the work and,
and really make sure that everybody's winning out of that experience.
Got it.
That makes a lot of sense and definitely it seems like a great place to focus
the energies and tensions, uh, that, that you have and it,
I'm sure things that are coming across your desk on a daily basis.
I wanted to look into the future just for a minute before we wrap up our
conversation here.
What do you see as some of the best opportunities for growth over the next year
or two? I know healthcare changes quickly and the technology sector even faster.
So, uh, from your perspective,
where do you really see some of the big opportunities and spaces where you are,
uh, focused on and investing into, um,
put yourself in a great spot for the next couple years?
Yeah,
outside of the things that I've already mentioned that will continue to scale
and kind of those concepts, I mean, I,
I think it's a very hot topic right now across technology, uh,
but certainly in healthcare as well is just the concept and,
and the leaps that generative AI has taken over the last, you know, six months,
I would say. Um, and I have a, I have a little bit of a different angle.
I think a lot of people focus on how it can do content creation, uh,
because that's how, you know,
most of the tools have been set up is kind of a chat interaction that creates
some content for me. You know, the, the struggle of a, um,
clinical informatics or health,
it has always been the amount of data that we create as clinicians, you know,
a lot of it's not normalized, um, or, um,
set up appropriately so we can actually unlock the potential for that for future
uses. Um, and I actually think that's one of the main, uh,
ways that we can really unlock that data by applying generative AI that can,
you know, drift across, um, you know,
data requirements to understand things in a much more, uh,
seamless or more human way than how we've been able to apply things like natural
language processing in the past.
So one example that we're looking at and actively have, uh,
across a few of our sites is ways that you can get to know your patients as
you're taking over their care in the hospital a little bit more quickly as a
physician or a nurse. You know, I'm,
I'm actually still a practicing hospitalist,
so I do inpatient care when I take over, you know, 20 patients, uh,
give or take a few, you know,
it's a tedious job of reviewing a lot of notes and finding the critical,
you know, values and if I miss something,
it could impact how I deliver care even if I was, you know,
trying to do my best. Um,
and so we've actually applied some generative AI technology that will help
generate a patient summary for me to kind of tee up the key past medical
history, current problems, you know, current, uh, medications they're receiving,
what consultants are following.
And before some of those data elements were really difficult to find cause they
were not discreet. Um, and this technology allows us to leverage that.
Other benefit of that is we can use things like that that are summarizing the
charts or encounters and we can actually use large language models and translate
that to different, uh, levels of comprehension, uh, across the, the healthcare,
you know, experience. So you could translate that to a different clinical role,
uh, let's say maybe one that's more pertinent to a physical therapist.
You could translate that to a patient or their family members, you know,
reading comprehension or, or you know, their, uh,
preferred language very quickly. And you know,
I think that's one of those examples where everybody wants to do that as a
clinician and provide that experience, but we're, we're not actually, um,
able to, you know, do that, um, you know, on the fly, um,
as well as maybe some of these technologies could do for our patients.
So I think it's a great way that we'll be able to better,
better serve our patients with this technology, but also unlock some of that,
you know, massive amounts of data, um,
that in some areas has been locked away in our systems, uh,
to really explain and get to know our patients and understand how we take care
of 'em better.
That's so fascinating to hear and definitely seems like a world where healthcare
is a lot more seamless and potentially, uh, better outcomes and,
and um, certainly something that is more enjoyable, although, you know,
it can still will have stressors, some stressors for sure. But, um,
definitely seems like there is a lot we can do in order to really improve that
patient and caregiver experience. So that's awesome to hear.
Absolutely.
Well, Jordan, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.
This has been a really fun conversation and we're excited to have you join us as
well at the, um, health IT Digital Health and Revenue Cycle event in October.
I think it's gonna be just a really fantastic, uh,
time there at the meeting and lots of these themes will come up into the
sessions and the discussions with you as well.
So looking forward to seeing you in person there.
Looking forward to it. Thank you so much.
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