1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,799 Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning 2 00:00:02,799 --> 00:00:05,059 in to the Becker's Health Care podcast. 3 00:00:05,599 --> 00:00:08,639 I'm Erica Carbajal, an editor with Becker's Hospital 4 00:00:08,639 --> 00:00:10,880 Review. And I'm so honored today to be 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,599 joined by doctor Marjorie Bessel, who is the 6 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:17,114 chief clinical officer at Banner Health. Doctor Bessel, 7 00:00:17,175 --> 00:00:18,695 thank you so much for taking the time 8 00:00:18,695 --> 00:00:19,675 to be on today. 9 00:00:19,975 --> 00:00:22,074 It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. 10 00:00:22,454 --> 00:00:24,775 Yeah. A lots to talk about today. Lots 11 00:00:24,775 --> 00:00:25,414 going on. 12 00:00:26,054 --> 00:00:27,494 Before we get into it, do you mind 13 00:00:27,494 --> 00:00:29,939 just sharing a little bit about the scope 14 00:00:29,939 --> 00:00:32,020 of your work at Banner Health and how 15 00:00:32,020 --> 00:00:33,000 long you've been there? 16 00:00:34,579 --> 00:00:35,379 Absolutely. So, 17 00:00:35,780 --> 00:00:38,739 I'm chief clinical officer for Banner Health and 18 00:00:38,739 --> 00:00:39,799 have responsibility 19 00:00:40,259 --> 00:00:42,884 for quite a number of activities within the 20 00:00:42,884 --> 00:00:45,684 organization, but, of course, first and foremost is 21 00:00:45,684 --> 00:00:47,684 the quality and safety of the care that 22 00:00:47,684 --> 00:00:48,424 we deliver. 23 00:00:48,804 --> 00:00:51,524 I also oversee a number of other areas, 24 00:00:51,524 --> 00:00:52,664 including security, 25 00:00:53,765 --> 00:00:54,984 performance improvement, 26 00:00:56,189 --> 00:00:58,829 deep connection to our health plan through our 27 00:00:58,829 --> 00:01:00,129 chief medical officers, 28 00:01:00,750 --> 00:01:03,090 and enjoy every moment of my work. 29 00:01:03,549 --> 00:01:04,769 I've been with Banner, 30 00:01:05,229 --> 00:01:08,109 in my current role now, for eighteen years 31 00:01:08,109 --> 00:01:10,185 with the organization and seven in my current 32 00:01:10,185 --> 00:01:12,765 role, and it has been just a wonderful 33 00:01:12,825 --> 00:01:14,745 organization to have a career of a lifetime 34 00:01:14,745 --> 00:01:15,245 with. 35 00:01:16,344 --> 00:01:19,325 Oh, eighteen years. Congrats on that, doctor Fussell. 36 00:01:20,504 --> 00:01:22,424 Well, I'll get right into it. I know 37 00:01:22,424 --> 00:01:24,049 Banner Health has achieved 38 00:01:24,510 --> 00:01:26,450 impressive results under your tenure. 39 00:01:27,310 --> 00:01:29,950 One of more recent ones, significant reductions in 40 00:01:29,950 --> 00:01:31,870 length of stay, which is a huge, 41 00:01:32,510 --> 00:01:34,750 area of focus for many health systems that 42 00:01:34,750 --> 00:01:36,609 that led to nearly 28,000,000 43 00:01:36,670 --> 00:01:38,689 in savings in 2023. 44 00:01:39,125 --> 00:01:41,784 So can you take us behind these wins 45 00:01:42,084 --> 00:01:43,685 and shed some light on on any key 46 00:01:43,685 --> 00:01:44,185 strategies, 47 00:01:44,564 --> 00:01:48,084 cultural shifts that helped drive the success, and 48 00:01:48,084 --> 00:01:49,784 any lessons that other systems 49 00:01:50,165 --> 00:01:52,884 might take away to drive similar improvements as 50 00:01:52,884 --> 00:01:54,984 they really hone in on length of stay? 51 00:01:55,420 --> 00:01:57,579 Absolutely, Erica. And thank you so much for 52 00:01:57,579 --> 00:01:59,579 that. So first of all, kudos to our 53 00:01:59,579 --> 00:02:00,079 team, 54 00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:03,019 that worked together to deliver those results. We 55 00:02:03,019 --> 00:02:05,340 have impressive results for 2024 56 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:07,334 also that we're still tabulating, but, 57 00:02:07,974 --> 00:02:10,155 exceeded our goals on length of stay. 58 00:02:10,615 --> 00:02:13,414 But as many of our listeners probably know, 59 00:02:13,414 --> 00:02:15,995 length of stay is really a very significant 60 00:02:16,055 --> 00:02:16,955 roll up measure 61 00:02:17,334 --> 00:02:20,074 about everything that you do, how your entire 62 00:02:20,215 --> 00:02:21,594 organization is functioning. 63 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,379 It includes everything from, like, your prehospital care, 64 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,759 the ED, which remains the front door to 65 00:02:27,759 --> 00:02:28,979 most all of our hospitals, 66 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,840 the in hospital care and coordination, and then, 67 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,519 of course, providing with the needs of the 68 00:02:33,519 --> 00:02:35,060 patient in the post discharge 69 00:02:35,455 --> 00:02:37,955 arenas, whether that is going home with services, 70 00:02:38,414 --> 00:02:40,574 going home without services, or needing to go 71 00:02:40,574 --> 00:02:43,074 to another level of care for post discharge. 72 00:02:43,775 --> 00:02:46,414 As you'll hear probably from myself, a number 73 00:02:46,414 --> 00:02:48,094 of times here today and any of the 74 00:02:48,094 --> 00:02:49,854 rest of us who are executives at Banner 75 00:02:49,854 --> 00:02:52,729 Health, we have a very significant strategic approach 76 00:02:52,729 --> 00:02:55,469 to everything, which is a one team approach. 77 00:02:56,090 --> 00:02:59,289 As length of stay, that includes engaging everybody 78 00:02:59,289 --> 00:03:01,449 across all those different areas that we spoke 79 00:03:01,449 --> 00:03:04,395 about and doing work in all of those 80 00:03:04,395 --> 00:03:06,555 areas. It takes a lot to move this 81 00:03:06,555 --> 00:03:08,314 boulder of length of stay, and there is 82 00:03:08,314 --> 00:03:10,314 a tipping point where you've got a lot 83 00:03:10,314 --> 00:03:12,955 of items finally moving in a direction to 84 00:03:12,955 --> 00:03:14,875 really start to see that length of stay 85 00:03:14,875 --> 00:03:15,375 drop. 86 00:03:15,949 --> 00:03:17,709 I love length of stay because it's a 87 00:03:17,709 --> 00:03:18,449 coming together 88 00:03:18,830 --> 00:03:19,569 of clinic 89 00:03:20,110 --> 00:03:20,930 and operations 90 00:03:21,229 --> 00:03:23,789 with a single focus of taking great care 91 00:03:23,789 --> 00:03:25,629 of patients when we take great care of 92 00:03:25,629 --> 00:03:28,364 patients and we don't have safety events. And 93 00:03:28,364 --> 00:03:30,125 the quality of the care that we deliver 94 00:03:30,125 --> 00:03:32,604 is really awesome, and we do a lot 95 00:03:32,604 --> 00:03:33,185 of coordination, 96 00:03:33,485 --> 00:03:35,324 that is when you see great length of 97 00:03:35,324 --> 00:03:38,125 stay. It's great for the organization. It allows 98 00:03:38,125 --> 00:03:39,564 us to have that bed open up to 99 00:03:39,564 --> 00:03:41,405 take care of another patient who needs us 100 00:03:41,405 --> 00:03:42,224 in our community. 101 00:03:42,730 --> 00:03:44,409 It's also great for the patient right in 102 00:03:44,409 --> 00:03:45,930 front of you who goes home on the 103 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:47,230 day that they expected 104 00:03:47,530 --> 00:03:49,390 with a care plan that has been 105 00:03:49,770 --> 00:03:52,090 executed and delivered to them and their their 106 00:03:52,090 --> 00:03:54,510 caregiving team in a way that they expected. 107 00:03:55,210 --> 00:03:55,870 So my 108 00:03:56,175 --> 00:03:58,094 tip for, I guess, everybody out there is 109 00:03:58,094 --> 00:04:00,914 to avoid looking for, like, the single lever 110 00:04:01,055 --> 00:04:03,455 to improve this very roll up measure. Make 111 00:04:03,455 --> 00:04:05,775 sure you're engaging with everybody like we do 112 00:04:05,775 --> 00:04:06,995 with a one team approach, 113 00:04:07,294 --> 00:04:10,219 nursing, your post acute providers that you probably 114 00:04:10,219 --> 00:04:12,939 do not own and work collaboratively will with 115 00:04:12,939 --> 00:04:15,199 your primary care physicians, your specialists, 116 00:04:15,659 --> 00:04:18,139 and even those responsible for turnaround time of 117 00:04:18,139 --> 00:04:19,600 your beds, think EVS. 118 00:04:20,154 --> 00:04:22,235 They all play a big role as do 119 00:04:22,235 --> 00:04:24,235 the hospitalists that are delivering the care each 120 00:04:24,235 --> 00:04:25,055 and every day. 121 00:04:26,475 --> 00:04:29,274 Yeah. Doctor Bessel, such great points just throughout 122 00:04:29,274 --> 00:04:29,774 how, 123 00:04:30,154 --> 00:04:32,975 you know, it really entails a strategic approach 124 00:04:33,419 --> 00:04:35,979 across all those areas and teams, you know, 125 00:04:35,979 --> 00:04:37,979 not just the front end, not just the 126 00:04:37,979 --> 00:04:40,800 care coordination, not just one initiative, but really, 127 00:04:41,419 --> 00:04:44,079 working in tandem to drive those ex improvements 128 00:04:44,139 --> 00:04:46,639 and excited to hear more about the advancements 129 00:04:46,699 --> 00:04:48,584 that that you mentioned for 2024 130 00:04:48,664 --> 00:04:49,485 that are coming 131 00:04:50,224 --> 00:04:50,724 through. 132 00:04:51,464 --> 00:04:52,925 Doctor Bessel, on this, 133 00:04:53,944 --> 00:04:56,285 you know, same topic, just kind of around 134 00:04:56,584 --> 00:04:58,285 improving access and capacity, 135 00:04:58,904 --> 00:05:01,669 it really is something that in almost every 136 00:05:01,669 --> 00:05:04,310 conversation we have with health system leaders today 137 00:05:04,310 --> 00:05:06,409 that comes up as an area of focus. 138 00:05:06,789 --> 00:05:09,110 But at the same time, many acknowledge that 139 00:05:09,110 --> 00:05:11,589 the cost of funding new efforts, whether that 140 00:05:11,589 --> 00:05:13,930 be for certain technology or capital, 141 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:16,009 investments, expansions, 142 00:05:16,705 --> 00:05:19,264 can be a barrier or challenge to improve 143 00:05:19,264 --> 00:05:19,764 throughput. 144 00:05:20,225 --> 00:05:22,465 So can you share a little bit about 145 00:05:22,465 --> 00:05:24,165 this? How is Banner tackling 146 00:05:24,545 --> 00:05:26,865 these challenges in the year ahead, and where 147 00:05:26,865 --> 00:05:29,585 is the health system really focusing resources to 148 00:05:29,585 --> 00:05:30,485 try to balance 149 00:05:31,050 --> 00:05:33,389 cost and impact with capacity? 150 00:05:34,330 --> 00:05:36,170 You know, Erica, thank you for asking that 151 00:05:36,170 --> 00:05:38,410 question. It's such an important one, and I 152 00:05:38,410 --> 00:05:40,810 know that for our listeners, it's one that 153 00:05:40,810 --> 00:05:43,610 everybody is thinking about working on and very 154 00:05:43,610 --> 00:05:44,509 focused on. 155 00:05:44,914 --> 00:05:47,154 From a Banner Health perspective, again, I wanna 156 00:05:47,154 --> 00:05:49,875 bring that strategic pillar in of the one 157 00:05:49,875 --> 00:05:51,334 team approach to this. 158 00:05:51,714 --> 00:05:54,675 Again, this is something that requires many of 159 00:05:54,675 --> 00:05:57,314 our different parts of our organization coming together 160 00:05:57,314 --> 00:05:59,794 and working together in order to move the 161 00:05:59,794 --> 00:06:00,810 dial on this. 162 00:06:01,449 --> 00:06:03,370 Another thing I'd like to call attention to 163 00:06:03,370 --> 00:06:06,329 that's for our organization is that our mission 164 00:06:06,329 --> 00:06:06,829 statement 165 00:06:07,209 --> 00:06:09,149 is very consumer focused. 166 00:06:09,850 --> 00:06:12,169 Making health care easier so life can be 167 00:06:12,169 --> 00:06:12,669 better. 168 00:06:12,970 --> 00:06:14,910 We know that health care made easier 169 00:06:15,404 --> 00:06:18,285 is a tough calling and access is a 170 00:06:18,285 --> 00:06:20,845 big piece of that. So here at Banner 171 00:06:20,845 --> 00:06:23,004 Health, through our one team approach, we are 172 00:06:23,004 --> 00:06:24,865 making investments in technology 173 00:06:25,645 --> 00:06:28,384 that signify a commitment to our mission. 174 00:06:28,845 --> 00:06:31,720 So that means both for patients and for 175 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:32,220 clinicians. 176 00:06:32,759 --> 00:06:35,480 Making health care easier for our clinicians to 177 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,420 deliver so that their professional 178 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,600 life and journey and career can be better 179 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,045 with us here at Banner Health. 180 00:06:42,525 --> 00:06:44,125 A big piece of this is how can 181 00:06:44,125 --> 00:06:46,444 we help reduce the burden of what it 182 00:06:46,444 --> 00:06:49,324 takes for a clinician to deliver care. So 183 00:06:49,324 --> 00:06:53,425 investments in AI technology, specifically around ambient listening, 184 00:06:53,645 --> 00:06:55,105 is a big one for clinicians. 185 00:06:55,889 --> 00:06:58,850 One of my absolute deliverables in the next 186 00:06:58,850 --> 00:07:00,949 five years is to reduce the administrative 187 00:07:01,250 --> 00:07:04,229 burden for clinicians by 50%. 188 00:07:04,850 --> 00:07:07,410 That is a huge audacious goal, and yet 189 00:07:07,410 --> 00:07:09,009 I feel that when you have me back 190 00:07:09,009 --> 00:07:10,664 in five years, I'm gonna tell you that 191 00:07:10,664 --> 00:07:12,504 we got it done together here at Banner 192 00:07:12,504 --> 00:07:14,985 Health. And it's gonna be through these AI 193 00:07:14,985 --> 00:07:16,365 and technology investments 194 00:07:16,824 --> 00:07:18,264 that make the day and the life of 195 00:07:18,264 --> 00:07:21,245 the clinician better, helps make them more efficient 196 00:07:21,464 --> 00:07:23,384 so that access is opened up to those 197 00:07:23,384 --> 00:07:25,649 patients that need need us. As I think 198 00:07:25,649 --> 00:07:26,629 we're all discovering, 199 00:07:27,410 --> 00:07:29,649 AI technology has a lot of different flavors 200 00:07:29,649 --> 00:07:31,889 out there, but when you're really focused on 201 00:07:31,889 --> 00:07:34,389 trying to reduce that administrative burden, 202 00:07:34,689 --> 00:07:37,089 it not only helps the clinician, but it 203 00:07:37,089 --> 00:07:39,350 enables a better visit for the patient. 204 00:07:39,714 --> 00:07:42,294 There's of course more efficiency for the physicians 205 00:07:42,354 --> 00:07:44,514 and and every other provider and that then 206 00:07:44,514 --> 00:07:47,074 of course opens up access for patients. So 207 00:07:47,074 --> 00:07:48,595 more to come on that, like many of 208 00:07:48,595 --> 00:07:52,194 us, in the industry, we're relatively still learning 209 00:07:52,194 --> 00:07:54,199 about ambient listening and these 210 00:07:55,379 --> 00:07:57,220 other technologies to deliver everything that I spoke 211 00:07:57,220 --> 00:07:59,540 about, but it's moving really quickly. And I 212 00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:02,439 think we will all see really significant deliverables 213 00:08:02,660 --> 00:08:04,259 that happen and get all the way across 214 00:08:04,259 --> 00:08:06,279 the finish line in 2025. 215 00:08:07,435 --> 00:08:10,154 Yeah. Some huge goals there, that 50%. It's 216 00:08:10,154 --> 00:08:12,154 so interesting. Do you have that broken down? 217 00:08:12,154 --> 00:08:13,834 I know you said over five years. You 218 00:08:13,834 --> 00:08:15,694 have that broken down sort of into, 219 00:08:16,634 --> 00:08:19,194 you know, more tangible goals year by year. 220 00:08:19,194 --> 00:08:20,975 Is that sort of how do you've organized 221 00:08:21,035 --> 00:08:21,509 that one? 222 00:08:22,389 --> 00:08:24,550 So, you know, the interesting thing about that 223 00:08:24,550 --> 00:08:27,029 big audacious goal is we don't know exactly 224 00:08:27,029 --> 00:08:28,949 how we're gonna get there yet, but we 225 00:08:28,949 --> 00:08:31,850 do have some really tangible goals as technology 226 00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:32,889 becomes available. 227 00:08:33,350 --> 00:08:35,605 I firmly believe that as we, you know, 228 00:08:35,605 --> 00:08:37,684 just spoke about a little bit ago, that 229 00:08:37,684 --> 00:08:40,004 ambient listening is a huge piece of that 230 00:08:40,004 --> 00:08:43,365 50% burden, and that field is changing really 231 00:08:43,365 --> 00:08:43,865 quickly. 232 00:08:44,245 --> 00:08:46,850 I expect that within the next eighteen months, 233 00:08:46,909 --> 00:08:48,669 every single one of our physicians here at 234 00:08:48,669 --> 00:08:51,409 Banner Health will have an ambient listening tool 235 00:08:51,629 --> 00:08:54,129 that is really fine tuned for their specialty 236 00:08:54,350 --> 00:08:56,429 and the way they deliver care at their 237 00:08:56,429 --> 00:08:58,830 fingertips and being really utilized that will open 238 00:08:58,830 --> 00:09:00,644 up that access for patients to get to 239 00:09:00,764 --> 00:09:02,144 in to see them more quickly. 240 00:09:03,485 --> 00:09:04,924 Yeah. For sure. So much, 241 00:09:05,565 --> 00:09:07,725 optimism around these tools. I I was speaking 242 00:09:07,725 --> 00:09:10,924 with another leader recently, physician leader who who, 243 00:09:10,924 --> 00:09:13,485 you know, said hesitant to call things game 244 00:09:13,485 --> 00:09:15,690 changers in health care and and use that 245 00:09:15,769 --> 00:09:17,850 term sparsely, but, really, 246 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:19,149 no hesitation 247 00:09:19,529 --> 00:09:21,850 when it comes to using that to describe 248 00:09:21,850 --> 00:09:24,509 ambient listening and just based on what physicians 249 00:09:24,570 --> 00:09:26,570 are saying through pilots and saying, you know, 250 00:09:26,570 --> 00:09:29,129 we really can't imagine going back to not 251 00:09:29,129 --> 00:09:30,350 having this. So, 252 00:09:31,384 --> 00:09:32,585 sort of the cat is out of the 253 00:09:32,585 --> 00:09:34,504 bag there. It it's just so interesting to 254 00:09:34,504 --> 00:09:35,004 hear 255 00:09:35,384 --> 00:09:37,225 how big of a role it really plays 256 00:09:37,225 --> 00:09:38,784 in freeing them up and then that that 257 00:09:38,904 --> 00:09:40,445 how that translates into, 258 00:09:41,464 --> 00:09:43,804 additional capacity and freeing things up. 259 00:09:44,659 --> 00:09:46,819 I completely agree, and I think game changer. 260 00:09:46,819 --> 00:09:48,339 I will commit to that term for this 261 00:09:48,339 --> 00:09:48,839 one. 262 00:09:49,220 --> 00:09:51,620 Our pilots are exactly as you described, and 263 00:09:51,620 --> 00:09:53,139 you know that you've had a game changer 264 00:09:53,139 --> 00:09:55,139 when people are begging you to not take 265 00:09:55,139 --> 00:09:56,120 the tool away. 266 00:09:57,434 --> 00:09:58,335 Yeah. Absolutely. 267 00:10:00,315 --> 00:10:02,394 Doctor Bessel, I wanted to ask you as 268 00:10:02,394 --> 00:10:05,215 well just about something that comes up frequently, 269 00:10:05,355 --> 00:10:08,654 a challenge in conversations with physician executives, 270 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:11,639 and that is just around engaging younger health 271 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:13,179 care workers in leadership. 272 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,440 Is that something that resonates with you? And 273 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,340 if so, what has been effective in encouraging 274 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,440 people to explore their own leadership potential and 275 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,044 not shy away from it off the bat. 276 00:10:25,745 --> 00:10:28,804 Another really awesome and important topic. So, certainly, 277 00:10:29,184 --> 00:10:31,664 preparing future decades of the workforce is a 278 00:10:31,664 --> 00:10:33,044 very important aspect 279 00:10:33,504 --> 00:10:35,664 for anybody who's an executive in health care 280 00:10:35,664 --> 00:10:38,029 right now. Here at Banner Health, we are 281 00:10:38,029 --> 00:10:40,350 really deeply embedded in our communities, and we 282 00:10:40,350 --> 00:10:42,830 have a number of strategies that we work 283 00:10:42,830 --> 00:10:45,070 with to make sure that young students, first 284 00:10:45,070 --> 00:10:46,590 of all, are going to enter in health 285 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:48,669 care. And then, of course, once they're in 286 00:10:48,669 --> 00:10:50,750 health care, it's very important to show all 287 00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:52,595 of our team members how there is a 288 00:10:52,595 --> 00:10:54,754 journey of a lifetime available for them with 289 00:10:54,754 --> 00:10:57,654 us So that, of course, includes physician leadership 290 00:10:58,274 --> 00:11:00,355 Here at Banner, we've built a really nice 291 00:11:00,355 --> 00:11:03,235 portfolio of offerings to develop skills for these 292 00:11:03,235 --> 00:11:04,214 types of individuals 293 00:11:04,914 --> 00:11:06,305 As we all know, skills like these are 294 00:11:06,305 --> 00:11:06,366 valuable in many other parts of our life 295 00:11:06,366 --> 00:11:06,427 It helps us be better with our families, 296 00:11:06,427 --> 00:11:07,334 it helps us 297 00:11:10,990 --> 00:11:12,990 families. It helps us be better with our 298 00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:15,410 patients and our day to day clinical teams. 299 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:18,269 I've been lucky because I've been here, in 300 00:11:18,269 --> 00:11:20,910 developing these for over ten years now. And 301 00:11:20,910 --> 00:11:22,290 I think it's really important 302 00:11:22,715 --> 00:11:24,794 for physicians to see that they don't always 303 00:11:24,794 --> 00:11:27,595 get these skills in their formalized training. And 304 00:11:27,595 --> 00:11:30,394 here at Banner and other organizations, we recognize 305 00:11:30,394 --> 00:11:32,315 that we need to really engage with them 306 00:11:32,315 --> 00:11:33,774 to help them work on them. 307 00:11:34,154 --> 00:11:36,235 Here at Banner Health, it culminates with a 308 00:11:36,235 --> 00:11:38,519 course that we call ALP, which is advanced 309 00:11:38,759 --> 00:11:41,179 leadership course for physicians in APP. 310 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,320 And I'm happy to say that we just 311 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,259 graduated our eighteenth cohort 312 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,040 of that. I think what we hear most 313 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,360 about those that have finished this is the 314 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:51,500 personal stories 315 00:11:51,865 --> 00:11:52,605 that resonate 316 00:11:52,985 --> 00:11:55,004 with them from leaders in our organization. 317 00:11:55,945 --> 00:11:57,485 Many of us, myself included, 318 00:11:58,024 --> 00:12:00,345 don't start with a really crisp road map 319 00:12:00,345 --> 00:12:02,524 of, hey. I'm starting as a bedside clinician, 320 00:12:02,985 --> 00:12:05,709 and I wanna be x. Chief clinical officer, 321 00:12:05,769 --> 00:12:08,570 chief medical officer, physician executive, you fill in 322 00:12:08,570 --> 00:12:09,230 the role. 323 00:12:09,850 --> 00:12:13,370 So it's really important that we capitalize on 324 00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:15,929 those stories and let people know, hey. You're 325 00:12:15,929 --> 00:12:17,309 going to be on a journey. 326 00:12:17,684 --> 00:12:19,445 You need to work with others, and you 327 00:12:19,445 --> 00:12:21,845 need to trust others who see potential in 328 00:12:21,845 --> 00:12:24,985 you and ask you to do things like 329 00:12:25,125 --> 00:12:27,365 take on a new project and say yes 330 00:12:27,365 --> 00:12:30,004 to that. Again, kinda Erica, going back to 331 00:12:30,004 --> 00:12:32,190 our one team approach here at Banner Health, 332 00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:34,590 I think that has been a secret sauce 333 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:35,330 of success. 334 00:12:35,789 --> 00:12:38,110 Our guest speakers at these programs, of course, 335 00:12:38,110 --> 00:12:40,909 they're not just physicians. They're executives from across 336 00:12:40,909 --> 00:12:42,049 our large organization, 337 00:12:42,830 --> 00:12:44,750 and I think that helps show everyone how 338 00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:47,024 we're really committed to that collaboration for the 339 00:12:47,024 --> 00:12:48,804 development of those physician leaders. 340 00:12:50,065 --> 00:12:51,764 Yeah. That's great. What a great program. 341 00:12:52,144 --> 00:12:54,565 Great to hear that eighteenth cohort has gone 342 00:12:54,625 --> 00:12:57,204 through that and is finding value in that. 343 00:12:58,625 --> 00:13:01,399 Doctor Bessel, on the topic too of physician 344 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:02,600 workforce shortages, 345 00:13:03,379 --> 00:13:06,019 obviously, a huge area of coverage and a 346 00:13:06,019 --> 00:13:08,440 major concern across health care. 347 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:11,320 What do you think is missing from conversations 348 00:13:11,539 --> 00:13:14,495 about this issue? Are there any overlooked factors, 349 00:13:14,794 --> 00:13:17,934 perspectives that you call out, that health systems 350 00:13:18,394 --> 00:13:19,134 might be 351 00:13:19,514 --> 00:13:21,454 or should be paying more attention to? 352 00:13:22,714 --> 00:13:24,554 So I I'm not sure that there are 353 00:13:24,554 --> 00:13:27,134 things that are per se, you know, overlooked. 354 00:13:27,529 --> 00:13:30,750 Again, I think these shortages are complex. They're 355 00:13:30,809 --> 00:13:33,950 multi pronged and therefore need a very multidisciplinary 356 00:13:34,410 --> 00:13:34,910 approach. 357 00:13:35,290 --> 00:13:37,370 I'll highlight a couple things that are very 358 00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:40,090 important here at Banner Health that may resonate 359 00:13:40,090 --> 00:13:42,009 with some of our leaders. So first of 360 00:13:42,009 --> 00:13:42,509 all, 361 00:13:43,004 --> 00:13:44,764 Banner Health is coming up on our ten 362 00:13:44,764 --> 00:13:47,345 year anniversary of our relationship with the University 363 00:13:47,725 --> 00:13:48,384 of Arizona, 364 00:13:49,004 --> 00:13:52,144 which is the state's largest academic medicine program. 365 00:13:53,004 --> 00:13:54,925 A big statistic that we're very proud of 366 00:13:54,925 --> 00:13:57,565 is that we train more than 1,300 residents 367 00:13:57,565 --> 00:14:00,980 and fellows and 5,000 nurses rotate through Banner 368 00:14:00,980 --> 00:14:01,480 every 369 00:14:01,940 --> 00:14:04,740 year. This relationship with our academic partner is 370 00:14:04,740 --> 00:14:07,460 a big piece and a huge important part 371 00:14:07,460 --> 00:14:10,259 of trying to address those workforce shortages of 372 00:14:10,259 --> 00:14:13,184 the future and really working together to support 373 00:14:13,184 --> 00:14:15,105 our communities so that we're there for them 374 00:14:15,105 --> 00:14:16,404 and can provide care. 375 00:14:17,184 --> 00:14:19,345 Another piece I'd like to talk about is 376 00:14:19,345 --> 00:14:20,804 the promotion of well-being. 377 00:14:21,424 --> 00:14:24,384 We know that well-being and the reduction of 378 00:14:24,384 --> 00:14:27,125 burnout is an important piece of addressing workforce 379 00:14:27,184 --> 00:14:27,684 shortages. 380 00:14:28,139 --> 00:14:30,700 We've all seen the aftereffect of the stress 381 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:32,160 and strain of the pandemic 382 00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:34,480 and what that did to our workforce. 383 00:14:35,019 --> 00:14:37,660 We've been very committed to that work across 384 00:14:37,660 --> 00:14:38,399 our organization, 385 00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:39,914 have been 386 00:14:40,394 --> 00:14:43,274 really exquisite about measuring our impact, and I'm 387 00:14:43,274 --> 00:14:46,794 happy to report had great success in 2024 388 00:14:46,794 --> 00:14:49,355 with the lowest rate of self reported burnout 389 00:14:49,355 --> 00:14:53,054 since we started exquisitely measuring that in 2018. 390 00:14:53,909 --> 00:14:55,509 Another piece of that, like we already talked 391 00:14:55,509 --> 00:14:57,769 about, Erica, is making sure that you're investing 392 00:14:57,830 --> 00:15:00,009 in technology and the right technology 393 00:15:00,629 --> 00:15:03,370 that can help make your workforce very efficient. 394 00:15:03,909 --> 00:15:06,070 And lastly, do you wanna talk about making 395 00:15:06,070 --> 00:15:08,070 sure that you have your physicians and your 396 00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:08,570 clinicians 397 00:15:08,995 --> 00:15:11,014 at the table for decision making. 398 00:15:11,394 --> 00:15:12,855 I think we all have recognized 399 00:15:13,475 --> 00:15:15,235 the stress and strain of being in the 400 00:15:15,235 --> 00:15:17,495 industry and how that really gets accentuated 401 00:15:18,274 --> 00:15:20,915 when physicians and other clinicians feel like they 402 00:15:20,915 --> 00:15:23,220 don't have a voice at the table where 403 00:15:23,220 --> 00:15:25,620 decisions are being made, where they feel like 404 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:27,160 they lose their autonomy. 405 00:15:27,540 --> 00:15:29,460 And that, of course, leads to a lot 406 00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:30,200 of potential 407 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:33,700 departures and general disgruntlement about being in the 408 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:34,200 industry. 409 00:15:34,804 --> 00:15:37,284 As we spoke about technology, ambient listening is 410 00:15:37,284 --> 00:15:40,345 a big piece of that and constantly looking, 411 00:15:40,884 --> 00:15:42,804 and my five year goal of reducing that 412 00:15:42,804 --> 00:15:44,565 administrative burden, I think, needs to be at 413 00:15:44,565 --> 00:15:46,725 the forefront for all of us. That will 414 00:15:46,725 --> 00:15:47,784 help us mitigate 415 00:15:48,164 --> 00:15:51,089 these workforce shortages in the future by making 416 00:15:51,089 --> 00:15:54,309 sure that we're making our workforce as engaged, 417 00:15:54,850 --> 00:15:55,669 as productive, 418 00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:57,830 and as happy as possible 419 00:15:58,289 --> 00:15:59,909 at work each and every day. 420 00:16:01,169 --> 00:16:01,990 Oh, yeah. The 421 00:16:03,184 --> 00:16:04,304 great success with, 422 00:16:05,105 --> 00:16:08,245 lowering that self reported burnout rate. I think 423 00:16:08,544 --> 00:16:10,144 it's such a big win, 424 00:16:10,625 --> 00:16:11,985 because I know we've seen some of the 425 00:16:11,985 --> 00:16:14,705 national numbers, and trends haven't moved too too 426 00:16:14,705 --> 00:16:17,424 much, you know, from 2021, '20 '20 '2, 427 00:16:17,424 --> 00:16:18,544 etcetera. So, 428 00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:20,679 just great to to hear about that and 429 00:16:20,679 --> 00:16:23,740 just all the ways that those technology investments 430 00:16:23,879 --> 00:16:25,100 and that really unburdening 431 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,079 physicians and focus there is showing results and 432 00:16:29,079 --> 00:16:30,620 and having a strong impact. 433 00:16:32,575 --> 00:16:34,815 Doctor Bessel, to close us out, can you 434 00:16:34,815 --> 00:16:37,615 share a piece of advice for emerging clinical 435 00:16:37,615 --> 00:16:39,955 executives in health care? Is there a memorable 436 00:16:40,254 --> 00:16:42,654 piece of advice you've received at some point 437 00:16:42,654 --> 00:16:45,610 in your career that's helped shape your leadership 438 00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:47,529 style that still shows up today? 439 00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:50,470 Yeah. Such a great question and what a 440 00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:52,570 great one, to close out. 441 00:16:53,029 --> 00:16:55,670 So my best piece of advice that I 442 00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:57,764 would give to others and one that was 443 00:16:57,764 --> 00:16:59,845 offered to me really early in my career 444 00:16:59,845 --> 00:17:01,625 that I think was incredibly helpful 445 00:17:02,004 --> 00:17:04,804 was making sure that you are open to 446 00:17:04,804 --> 00:17:06,184 trying different experiences. 447 00:17:07,365 --> 00:17:09,784 Simple to say, hard to do. 448 00:17:10,085 --> 00:17:12,299 But what comes along with that is that 449 00:17:12,299 --> 00:17:15,179 when you really listen to others, when they 450 00:17:15,179 --> 00:17:17,119 perhaps give you an opportunity, 451 00:17:17,899 --> 00:17:20,139 sometimes we don't even recognize that it's an 452 00:17:20,139 --> 00:17:20,639 opportunity. 453 00:17:21,179 --> 00:17:23,500 So something like, hey, do you mind standing 454 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:25,234 in for me at this meeting? Do you 455 00:17:25,234 --> 00:17:27,555 mind taking on this short project that has 456 00:17:27,555 --> 00:17:28,295 two meetings? 457 00:17:28,755 --> 00:17:31,174 It can be something as small as that. 458 00:17:31,315 --> 00:17:33,575 But I think saying yes to those experiences 459 00:17:33,955 --> 00:17:37,555 is so incredibly helpful for growth. And what 460 00:17:37,555 --> 00:17:40,049 sits behind that, which I think is a 461 00:17:40,049 --> 00:17:42,390 really important takeaway from this conversation, 462 00:17:43,009 --> 00:17:44,069 is that the person 463 00:17:44,369 --> 00:17:47,250 asking you to potentially do something different as 464 00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:47,910 an experience 465 00:17:48,450 --> 00:17:50,769 is seeing something in you that perhaps you 466 00:17:50,769 --> 00:17:52,069 don't recognize yourself. 467 00:17:52,769 --> 00:17:54,789 So when somebody asks you to do that 468 00:17:54,825 --> 00:17:55,325 extra 469 00:17:56,024 --> 00:17:57,904 thing, try and think of it as both 470 00:17:57,904 --> 00:17:59,325 a yes as well as, like, 471 00:17:59,784 --> 00:18:01,944 that person must see something in me. Let 472 00:18:01,944 --> 00:18:04,105 me find out more about that. Go do 473 00:18:04,105 --> 00:18:05,944 this project and do a follow-up to find 474 00:18:05,944 --> 00:18:07,304 out what else I can work on for 475 00:18:07,304 --> 00:18:07,964 my future. 476 00:18:08,450 --> 00:18:10,210 It was really helpful for me in my 477 00:18:10,210 --> 00:18:11,890 career, and I hope it's helpful for our 478 00:18:11,890 --> 00:18:12,390 listeners. 479 00:18:13,490 --> 00:18:15,670 Yeah. What a great way to close out. 480 00:18:15,809 --> 00:18:17,890 Doctor Bessel, thank you so much. It's been 481 00:18:17,890 --> 00:18:20,049 a pleasure having you on today, and I'm 482 00:18:20,049 --> 00:18:20,549 sure 483 00:18:20,954 --> 00:18:22,974 listeners will just find this conversation 484 00:18:23,275 --> 00:18:26,075 so valuable. We talked about so many big 485 00:18:26,075 --> 00:18:28,654 pressing trends affecting health care operations, 486 00:18:29,034 --> 00:18:32,875 from patient throughput, physician satisfaction, etcetera. So so 487 00:18:32,875 --> 00:18:34,015 appreciate your insights. 488 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:36,220 So wonderful to be with you, and I 489 00:18:36,220 --> 00:18:37,519 hope our listeners enjoy 490 00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:39,359 our conversation as well. 491 00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:41,839 For sure. Look forward to connecting again.