- This is Laura Deida with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr. Eric Summers,
chief Medical Officer at Atrium Health,
wake Forest Baptist, part of Advocate Health.
Dr. Summers, it's a pleasure
to have you on the podcast today.
- Yeah, thanks. Thanks for inviting me.
- Now, I'm looking forward to our discussion.
I know there's so much happening in healthcare right now,
and in particular, it's a fascinating time for clinical care
to just see some of the different trends and,
and the way technology has evolved as well.
But before we dive into that discussion,
can you tell us a little bit more
about yourself and your background?
- Yeah, sure. I, um, I'm a hospitalist by training.
I've been in, uh, medicine as a physician for 24 years, uh,
and um, through my, uh, hospitalist experiences I got into,
uh, administration and system change,
and I've been CMO here for six years,
and, um, it's been a great experience, so.
- Well, that's excellent and,
and definitely, um, you know, really cool to see
how you've taken your career from a hospitalist now
to leading, um, you know, a team of physicians
as a chief medical officer.
Uh, I'm wondering, you know, especially given, um,
so much has, has been changing over the past few years,
could you talk about one change in particular
that you have made that has yielded some great results?
- Yeah, I, um, we've done a lot of good things here,
but I, uh, there's one that is, um, the one
that really has stood out for me.
And it's, um, because I've seen how it's impacted our staff,
and that is, um, we've put a lot of work into, uh,
workplace violence and initiatives to,
uh, mitigate that.
And, uh, the reason that's top of mind is, um, you know,
we didn't pre covid.
I mean, it was important, but we didn't have, um,
a structure like we do now.
And, and so patients were, we're about patients,
patient care, needs of the patient come first.
That's always kind of been my mantra, mantra,
and it still is, but,
but, uh, post covid, I realized that our staff are just
as important and keeping them safe,
supporting them is critical.
And so we have a process now in place with behavioral alerts
and, and more importantly,
administrators like myself when there is an issue
at the bedside in a patient who is, um, able
to make their own decisions
and making, uh, poor decisions with regards
to physical violence or, uh, uh, mental violence, you know,
myself or one of my colleagues will go to the bedside and,
and talk to that patient and, and, um, set expectations.
You know, we care about our patients, but,
but we, we have to support our staff.
And, um, and the the thing that's really gratifying
that I didn't realize until doing this, uh, was
how important that was for our staff.
You know, the perception, well that, um, you know, the,
the leaders don't understand or they don't care,
but when you're at the bedside, uh, and you're there
and they, and they see that we're a team
and we're gonna, we're gonna support each other,
that has just been very gratifying, uh,
because, um, uh, this is a tough job.
It's, medicine is very tough,
but, um, you know, doing things to, to help our staff is,
um, uh, is just the right thing.
And so I'm just really proud of that.
I'm proud of what we've done and,
and actually our work, our, our number
of workplace violence events has dropped
by 20% since we did this initiative over the last,
uh, two years.
And we have, um, we have a workplace violence leader.
So yeah, that just is something that I'm, uh, very proud of
for, for my organization.
- That's amazing to hear. And as you mentioned,
such an important, uh, aspect
of leading the clinical teams is making sure, you know,
people feel safe in, in their actual protocols
and measures in place, um, so they know what to do if,
if violence does occur.
Um, so, you know, that seems like something I hear day in
and day out from healthcare executives is they're thinking
through, you know, top priorities is being able to, um,
create those programs in respond appropriately.
Um, so thank you for laying that out for us.
- One quick thing I wanna throw in,
if there's one thing I could recommend
for every organization out there is, is to emphasize,
have your leaders be present at the bedside.
Have your CMO, your CO your president come to the bedside
for those, those cases that,
that makes a world of difference.
That was a game changer for us.
- Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine.
You know, it, it really, um,
the team feels the support from you, your presence and,
and the leadership's presence there.
And from your perspective, you know,
when you're going into those situations, what is it that,
like for you, how do you really, um, I guess,
approach those situations so you can diffuse them?
Yeah,
- So yes, it's not something I learned in medical
school, that's for sure.
But, um, and the first few times it was a little nerve
wracking, but now since I've, I've become a, um,
experienced at it, what I'd say is that, um,
it's actually one of the most enjoyable things I do.
And it's not just for our staff,
but when I walk in that room, usually I'm,
people are saying, watch out.
This is gonna be tough. Do you want security?
Do you want, you know, and and I almost always say no.
And, and what I've learned from these crucial conversations
are that, um, patients are, when they're angry,
when they're doing things like that, we, you know,
physical violence, a a large proportion of the,
of the issue is, uh, a patient doesn't know what's going on
and ha and, and wants to know, uh, the issues why they're,
why they're there, their treatment plan.
And the other is they want to be heard, they want
to be acknowledged, their viewpoint.
And so I often, the first thing I've gotta do,
I've gotta connect as a human.
I, I need them, I need patients to see my eyes and,
and know that I care about them
because I do even, even in those situations.
And so I care and we connect and then I listen,
and then I give the perspective of the hospital and,
and then have maybe some difficult conversations that
this can't continue.
But, um, we want to support, you know,
we wanna support the patients as much as our staff.
And I will tell you 95% of the time that works, that
that's, uh, that's the secret recipe.
I'm not gonna lie, 5% of , there's, there's nothing
that I can that that works.
Uh, but people wanna be heard, they wanna be respected,
they want you to listen to 'em,
and they, they want you to care
and they want you to communicate.
And that's what I try to do. And, and, and
because it's successful
because of staff appreciates that, it's actually one
of the more enjoyable things I do now.
- That's really amazing to hear.
And, and certainly, you know, um, I,
I appreciate you giving those pointers.
'cause like you said, it's not something
that always comes naturally
or that, you know, has really been taught in the traditional
medical schools, but having that ability to take, um,
real steps that are meaningful
and connect to patient's, person to person, um, and,
and deescalate those situations,
I can imagine those wonders.
And also, uh, like you said, supports the staff as well.
So that, that's really cool to hear.
Now, what are some of the other top trends
that you're following healthcare right now?
What's really top of mind for you,
- For you?
Well, boy, there's a, there's a lot of things, um, you know,
uh, from the acute aspects.
I mean, you know, uh, workforce sur shortages in healthcare
and, and how we, we keep our staff together, certainly
what I talked about with workplace violence,
that's a component of, um, you know, improving staff,
staff satisfaction.
But, um, you know, reducing that, that, um,
that labor that is, um, um, you know, locums,
um, we, we need to keep our, we need to have staff here
that is, is connected and engaged and, and with our mission
and, and, you know, for not just our culture,
but for, you know, cost containment.
And so that, that's something we've been working on and,
and we've been making strides on.
But, um, you know, other things, you know, kind
of the latest artificial intelligence, you know,
we're certainly are looking at that and,
and how, how can ai, you know, change medicine,
how can it transform our operations, make us more efficient,
make us make the patient experience better?
And, uh, we're noticing some small successes, but,
but, you know, taking it to that next level
and that, that may not be something we,
we see in the next year, but,
but that's, there's a lot of optimism there that, um,
that can, you know, transform, um, what we're doing now,
get the, get the doctor
or the, the healthcare professional away from the computer
and, and more time with the patient.
You know, how can we use our analytics to generate revenue?
I mean, you know, as we all know,
the bottom lines are a little bit
tighter than they used to be.
And, and what can we do to
generate value from our data in this
challenging cost environment?
Um, how can we get a, how can we maximize our access?
We're doing some great things with access continuing
to improve, but the environment in medicine has changed
over the last few years.
Consumers have more options, you know, these private equity
entities and, you know, we need to listen
to our consumers even more patient
centered, give 'em what they want.
Um, and, and, you know, without that, without that access,
without that, that improvement, that's, um,
that's gonna impact our ability to, uh, fulfill our mission.
And so, um, you know, we're looking at,
at key service lines to grow.
And, um, but yeah, I mean, it's really,
all these things are about improving the patient experience,
the employee experience,
and, um, uh, maximizing our, our margin and bottom line.
- That makes a lot of sense. And I know
that it can sometimes be a balance,
as you were talking about in terms of figuring out how
to deliver the great outcomes while understanding the
financial realities and,
and knowing, you know, what can be helpful, um, from the
clinical perspective, um, in that regard.
And then too, thinking about the patient experience,
I know there's so much that happened, has happened,
it seems like even in the last two years as, um,
focus zeros in on, you know, what patients are looking
for within their, um, their healthcare journey and,
and when they're approaching and needing care.
Um, you know, really there's a lot that can be done, um, to,
to make it a better experience and achieve better outcomes.
And so I think it, it is really interesting to hear,
you know, from your perspective, the work that you
and your teams are doing, um, in that space.
Is there anything that you're, you're looking at right now
and are, are excited about when you think about growth
and development over the next 12 to 24 months or so?
- Well, I mean, we just need to grow, uh, and
and we need to grow in key areas.
I, I guess one thing that excites me personally,
and it's, it's, um, you know, I, I went into this
for patients, uh, you know, like most,
like most in healthcare.
I mean, uh, we love patients and,
and we want to, we want to help.
And so, um, there's not only improvement of access
and growth and all those things that, that, um, uh,
you know, we're trying to do.
But, but the other one that I'm really proud that our,
our enterprise has, has emphasized this is,
is closing the gaps in health equity
and, you know, the, um, the, uh, groups,
lower socioeconomic status, uh, et cetera.
I mean, getting them the healthcare, the same healthcare
that everyone else is getting.
We all, we all, they all deserve the same, we want
that, we want that equity.
And it's, you know, certainly something, I've been
involved in different initiatives
and different health systems over the years, but,
but I'm really excited with some of the things, uh,
advocate Health's doing to, to improve those gaps.
And, you know, engaging with the community and, and,
and drilling down certain patient groups, um,
that's just important and why we do this.
And, and, you know, and then on a personal level,
I'll share, I'm happy to share this.
I, I, um, grew up myself in a very, uh,
poor environment, uh, low socioeconomic status, struggled
to, uh, not just see a physician, but,
but groceries, get groceries and,
and you know, I remember that, I remember those times and,
and, um, I don't want anyone
to have to go through that, you know?
I mean, that's, uh, yeah, just, just really proud
that we are, are, are working hard
and emphasizing that part of medicine.
- Absolutely. I, I think it's so meaningful and,
and definitely a, as you mentioned from experience, know
how important it is when you have somebody looking out
for you and, and making sure that, um, you know,
when you might not have
otherwise had access, um, naturally to healthcare in,
in some of the, the different services
and resources, um, as others.
And so, you know, I, I think it's really powerful to bring
that perspective into the role that you have as a physician
and, and then to, um, your work as chief medical officer
and thinking about health equity.
So, um, thank you so much for sharing that with us.
Are there any of the, um, projects
or initiatives that, um, you know, kind of, um, um,
have been really impactful already on the community or,
or anything that, um, you wanna share that, you know,
you've, um, thought, you know,
really made a difference so far?
- You know, I think we have a,
a good group working on social determinants of health and,
and, and those areas.
Um, you know, I would just say I, off the top of my head,
I can't think of a specific project,
but I, I would say broadly, you know,
and this, this goes back to my own personal experiences, um,
you can build all sorts of processes,
but at the, at the core, you have to have trust.
And, um, you know, I remember back in those,
those days being scared, my family being scared to see
a healthcare provider because of, um, you know, cost
and, you know, and, and we didn't have much money.
And, and that never should have been a barrier.
If people aren't coming to see you, then
you, you can't design, in my opinion, a process
that's gonna work you, that's the first step.
And so, you know, I think broadly, our, our teams are,
are really trying to bridge that trust gap
through our churches, through the community.
And, and, um, yeah, I think, I think that's the,
you know, these things are very complex.
There's many things you have to work through,
but I think that's a key step.
Uh, and I, I know that we have initiatives that are,
are improving that, and, you know, so that's an example of
my own bias from my own life versus, um, you know, uh,
and translating that to, to some of our initiatives.
- Absolutely. Well, Dr. Summers, thank you so much
for joining us on the podcast today.
This has been such a fantastic conversation.
We covered a lot of ground
and, you know, really helpful to see from your perspective,
um, some of the, the great work that you're doing.
So, uh, thank you for being here with us today.
I appreciate our conversation
and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.
- All right. Thank you for your time.
I appreciate you talking with me.
Take care.