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- Prepare to dive into the forefront

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of healthcare innovation at
our 14th annual meeting coming

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up on April 8th

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through 11th at the Hyatt Regency
in Chicago, with thousands

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of industry leaders converging
over four dynamic days

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of discussions on crucial
topics from health IT

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to executive leadership.

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It's where the future of
healthcare takes shape.

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We can't wait to connect
with you in person

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and engage in these
important conversations.

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- This is Laura Dedo with the
Becker's Healthcare Podcast.

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I'm thrilled today to be
joined by Dr. Raymond Roon,

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who is the Chief scientist at Baptist

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Memorial Healthcare Corporation, Dr.

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Osro gba, thank you so much

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for joining us on the podcast today.

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- Thank you, Laura. It's
my pleasure to be with you

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- Now.

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I know we've got a lot to talk about,

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and I'm really excited to learn more about

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what you're doing at
Baptist Memorial Healthcare.

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But before we dive into my questions,

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can you tell us a little bit more about

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yourself and your background?

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- Thank you, Laura. Uh, I'm
a thoracic medical oncologist

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and a health services
researcher at the Baptist, um,

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cancer Center in Memphis, Tennessee, um,

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where my official title is
Chief Scientist for the, um,

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healthcare system.

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Um, I'm an implementation
scientist, um, and,

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and director of our multidisciplinary

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thoracic oncology program.

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I'm also the principal investigator

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of a pretty exciting
project we have going on.

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We call the Mid South Miracle.

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I'll be delighted to share
some of that with you today.

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- Absolutely. Fantastic. I,
I think that sounds great.

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And you know, I, I'd love
to dive right in there.

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Can you tell us a little
bit more about that project?

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Uh, what really you're digging
into and what you're finding?

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- Yeah. So the Mid South
Miracle comes out of, uh,

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the problem of where we are.

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Um, my healthcare system,

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Baptist Memorial Healthcare Corporation,

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is the dominant care provider
in the Tri-state region

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that includes most of
Mississippi, uh, chunk

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of eastern Arkansas and West Tennessee.

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But we spill over into parts of Kentucky

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and Missouri and Alabama.

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Um, this region of the
United States has some

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of the highest per capita cancer incidents

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and mortality rates.

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Uh, so that's the lemon.

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The lemonade is that we
have taken a population, um,

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based perspective, um,
bringing existing sciences,

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uh, team science, implementation
science, population science

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to look strategically at the
challenge of care delivery

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to our very high risk, large volume,

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very diverse, um, population.

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And, and that has given us
this perspective that, um,

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building rigorous programs

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and building, um, highly skilled
teams within the programs,

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uh, can actually help us
deliver care efficiently

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with better outcomes, uh, and
better cost effectiveness.

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So this is the basic, um, perspective

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where the challenge comes

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and the solutions that we're
applying to meet the challenge.

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- Absolutely. That's great to hear it.

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And certainly, you know,
there's so much, um, opportunity

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as you mentioned in that
space to continue to grow

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and develop and serve
the community better.

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So when you're looking at
this as a whole, what are some

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of the big issues that you're

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following in healthcare right now?

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What's top of mind for you?

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- The top of mind for us
is how to extend access

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to uniformly high quality care

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in sustainable cost-effective
ways that lead to

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good population level outcomes.

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That is kind of the big
task that we have, um,

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tackled and, and,

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and we're, um, looking at how

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to not only build our programs,

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but a, a at train a
workforce that is tailored

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to meet the demand.

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So looking at not just the
kinds of people we have,

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but the skill sets that
they need to be able

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to deliver the care
that we want to be able

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to provide uniformly,

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but also how to enhance
the care we deliver

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by leveraging technology, technology.

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So, so deploying robust,

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highly functional
programs to open up access

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to diverse populations
while delivering care at a

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cost effective enough,
uh, manner to be able to

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sustain the, the demand, uh,

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and the growth of our programs is a very

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exciting, um, challenge.

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And, and we are looking at
how best to leverage, uh,

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information technology to,

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to enhance the care that we deliver.

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These are the exciting things
that we're engaged in, um,

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looking forward to serving
our population better.

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- I love that. I, I think
that makes so much sense.

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And you know, that magic word access, uh,

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to high quality care, you
know, it certainly sounds easy

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or is easier said than done, um,

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but I, I'm really
interested in particular,

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when you look ahead, um, what about

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that makes you excited and
what makes you nervous?

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What aspects do you
really see as being, um,

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coming together versus
areas where, you know,

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you're running into a few more challenges?

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- Yeah, we get me excited is the early

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results that we have seen.

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So we, we have been very rigorous in, uh,

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implementing these
programs, designing them,

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benchmarking them, testing
them, implementing them,

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constantly collecting data
to ensure that we know, uh,

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at any given point in time

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where we are in relation to our goals.

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So some of the results we
have seen are really exciting.

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Um, Laura, I'll tell you, so for example,

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our mid south miracle,
essentially, we're deploying seven

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specific programs across
our healthcare system, uh,

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to help improve the outcomes
of lung cancer patients.

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So, so, um, we, we have two,

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um, early detection
programs, uh, conceptually.

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One is conventional lung cancer screening,

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but another really exciting
program we have is our

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incidental lung nod program.

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Basically using technology
to help us hoover up, uh,

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the results of, um,
radiologic images that happen

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to demonstrate the
possibility of a pre-malignant

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or malignant, uh, uh, lung lesion.

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Uh, which we found to be
even more effective than

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lung cancer screening by expanding
access to the possibility

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of early detection to a much
wider range of our population,

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including people who
would never have qualified

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to be screened, uh,
finding lung cancer early.

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Similar to what we find
with screening, being able

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to deploy, um, multidisciplinary
care, uh, delivery

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to this diverse population
is another program we have

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disseminated, uh,
tobacco control programs.

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That's another one. But also
when we find these early lung

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cancers, one of the key
things that we know we have

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to be able to do is
deliver safe, effective,

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curative intense treatment.

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So surgical quality, pathology,
quality, biomarker based,

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uh, decision making for treatment
have been major components

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of our Midsouth miracle.

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And then finally, you know,
giving people access to

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what I call tomorrow's treatment today,

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which you can only do through the auspices

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of a clinical trial.

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So expanding access to
clinical trials across this

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huge diverse six state population

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that traditionally has
been a research desert

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is part of the excitement.

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And the results that we have seen

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so far are very encouraging.

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I'll just tell you real
quick, we are finding

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that the lung cancer patients
who receive their care within

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our structured program environment have

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three times the, uh,

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better survival than
the aggregate group of

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lung cancer patients
whose care is delivered

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outside these programs three times.

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The median survival of lung
cancer patients cared for

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outside our programs is about 11 months.

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The median survival of the, uh, patients

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who receive their care within
our programs about 36 months.

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36. So we, we, we are
really excited about this

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and looking forward to
disseminating this across the land.

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- That is really impressive to hear,

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and certainly, you know, exciting

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that you've gone this kind of outcomes.

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And then too, to be able
to look ahead and scale

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and grow the program to
potentially affect more people, um,

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seems like it would be a really great

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opportunity. Completely.

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- I agree, Laura.
- Absolutely.

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From your perspective, um,

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what do you think most effective
healthcare leaders will

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need in order to be
successful over the next two

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to three years, especially
as healthcare changes

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and we learn more about,
you know, where, um,

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where we can be most effective in helping

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people in populations?

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What should leaders keep in mind?

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- Yeah, that's a great question, Laura.

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Um, I think the number one is that we have

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to have a population
health perspective, uh,

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especially in cancer, uh, where
there is so much pathology,

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so much if you will, misery
where there is also so much,

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uh, mortality still.

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So, so looking at the
health of our populations

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is got to be somewhere at the heart

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of everything we do strategically.

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So designing our systems to be able to,

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um, prevent, detect early

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optimize treatment to get it
to the people who need it,

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where they need it at the time
they need it in the safest

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possible way, is a big component of our

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strategic mission.

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Now, the, the leaders of
healthcare systems not only have

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to be strategically sound,

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but they also have to
be tactically astute.

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We have to figure out the
steps that either take

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to actually implement high
functioning systems to,

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to essentially guarantee us the outcomes

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that we, uh, desire.

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And one of the things that has to be

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hardwired in the DNA of
of our leadership has

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to be comfort with data.

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We have to be comfortable
abstracting, analyzing,

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interpreting, and then
using data to guide us

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as we deploy resources,
um, across our populations.

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And to be able to do
that, we have also to be

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very comfortable with adopting technology.

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Technology has to be somewhere
at the heart of the solutions

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to the problems that we tackle

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- That is so important to note,

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and especially from the technology side.

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But really, you know, looking
at these entire initiatives,

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obviously take resources,
um, and time and energy.

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How do you think about it
from the health system level

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perspective and being able
to actually devote resources,

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whether it's time or,

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or financial as well, um, to
putting forward, you know,

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these, these types of
population health programs

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that are really preventative measures.

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Um, but at the moment, you know,

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might not have strong funding
mechanisms from at least

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payers in, in the traditional way

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that health systems have brought in

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money, if that makes sense.

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- Yeah, Laura, that's a
great question. I tell you.

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So that's somewhere near the
heart of the whole Mm-Hmm,

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<affirmative> matter, um, be

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because, um, nothing is sustainable

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if it does not have return on investment.

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So, so one of the things that we have

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to be very clear-eyed about
is what do we want to do?

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What investment will
need require to do it?

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And what is going to be the
return on that investment?

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I, I think where we run into
trouble sometimes is when we

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get, um, um, when, when we allow our,

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our emotions, uh,

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overcome our clear eye
pragmatic thinking, um, and,

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and it gets back to the model that we use

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to figure out when we are making,

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when we're being successful,
and when we're not.

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So, so the, the idea of
population health does require

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that the reimbursement models,
uh, provide us the incentives

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to make the upfront investments

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because we know we will get these returns.

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Because the, the problem is if
you don't have return on your

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investment, where as a healthcare system

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or any other system, you,
you will quickly run out of

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resources with which to do
whatever good you sought to do.

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We as a society, um, we
have to understand that

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and continue to work
hard to reconfigure our,

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our models of reimbursement
in that direction of

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wellness care, um, the
health of populations.

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Now, one of the things that I
have been able to articulate

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to my c-suite leadership is the, the,

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the concept of the model.

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So as our contracts are
increasingly value based,

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one of the things that we're
able to demonstrate is you,

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you can't just rely on
continuous high volume pathology.

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Um, what what we want to emphasize is,

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is the value to the
system of higher levels

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of survivorship, uh,
delivering high quality care

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within structured systems
with better outcomes

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yields us, you know, armies
of grateful survivors,

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almost in an annuity
system where people survive

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and they, they, they're grateful

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and they come back for additional care

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over hopefully many years.

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There is a model there that
makes it cost effective

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for healthcare systems.

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- That's such a great point and,

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and really fascinating to think about.

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Dr. Osro Giba, thank you so much

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for joining us on the podcast today.

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This has been a fascinating discussion.

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I hope to connect with
you further to discuss

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and go deeper into some of these points,

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but really, you know, great
to speak with you today

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and really learn more about what you're

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doing about this memorial.

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Thank you.

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- Thank you, Ms. <inaudible>.

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Enjoyed our conversation today, Laura.