1 00:00:00,345 --> 00:00:02,105 - Welcome everyone to the Becker's 2 00:00:02,105 --> 00:00:03,265 Healthcare podcast series. 3 00:00:03,445 --> 00:00:04,945 I'm Maria Moham, writer 4 00:00:04,965 --> 00:00:06,545 and moderator with Becker's Healthcare. 5 00:00:07,085 --> 00:00:09,345 I'm absolutely thrilled to have with me today Dr. 6 00:00:09,375 --> 00:00:12,105 Nick Capi, director of Infusion Oncology 7 00:00:12,245 --> 00:00:15,625 and investigational drug pharmacy services at the University 8 00:00:15,625 --> 00:00:17,265 of California San Francisco. 9 00:00:17,325 --> 00:00:19,825 Doctor, it's very nice to have you on the podcast today. 10 00:00:20,085 --> 00:00:22,065 To get us started, would you mind please introducing 11 00:00:22,265 --> 00:00:24,105 yourself and telling us a bit about your background? 12 00:00:26,375 --> 00:00:27,975 - Absolutely, and thank you for having me. 13 00:00:28,915 --> 00:00:31,015 As you mentioned, my name is Nick Capote, 14 00:00:31,235 --> 00:00:33,255 and, uh, I live in San Francisco 15 00:00:33,475 --> 00:00:35,895 and I'm fortunate to work at UCSF Health. 16 00:00:36,235 --> 00:00:37,495 Uh, I am one 17 00:00:37,495 --> 00:00:40,415 of the pharmacy directors within the pharmacy department. 18 00:00:40,915 --> 00:00:43,975 We have a, a rather large pharmacy department supporting the 19 00:00:43,975 --> 00:00:46,615 overall institution, uh, for clinical services 20 00:00:46,835 --> 00:00:47,895 as well as research. 21 00:00:48,555 --> 00:00:51,615 And fortunate to be able to call myself a team member 22 00:00:51,675 --> 00:00:54,695 and oversee oncology infusion and investigational drugs. 23 00:00:55,615 --> 00:00:59,315 You know, fortunate is a word I used when associating myself 24 00:00:59,315 --> 00:01:01,835 with UCSF Health in terms of my background. 25 00:01:01,935 --> 00:01:04,715 I'm also fortunate to have experienced a diversity 26 00:01:04,775 --> 00:01:07,315 of practice environments, uh, and leadership styles. 27 00:01:07,735 --> 00:01:11,395 Uh, being in leadership, the ability to gain a variety 28 00:01:11,395 --> 00:01:13,035 of perspectives is really important to me. 29 00:01:14,055 --> 00:01:16,235 Way back when I was doing my pharmacy school training, 30 00:01:16,535 --> 00:01:19,555 the didactic portion of pharmacy, uh, I was in Memphis, 31 00:01:19,875 --> 00:01:22,035 Tennessee at University of Tennessee Health Science Center, 32 00:01:22,295 --> 00:01:24,995 and it was there that I gained a really just immense 33 00:01:24,995 --> 00:01:27,835 appreciation for the clinical application of pharmacy. 34 00:01:27,855 --> 00:01:30,795 It really opened my eyes to what pharmacists could do, uh, 35 00:01:30,795 --> 00:01:34,075 on the healthcare team, uh, elbow to elbow with other, 36 00:01:34,255 --> 00:01:35,435 uh, practitioners. 37 00:01:36,185 --> 00:01:37,805 Uh, after that, I completed two years 38 00:01:37,825 --> 00:01:39,565 of pharmacy residency training in Madison, 39 00:01:39,565 --> 00:01:42,365 Wisconsin at University of Wisconsin Health, uh, 40 00:01:42,365 --> 00:01:44,285 the big academic medical center there in Madison, 41 00:01:45,105 --> 00:01:48,085 and that was a residency program focused on practice 42 00:01:48,345 --> 00:01:49,725 and effective implementation 43 00:01:49,725 --> 00:01:52,125 of change management and leadership. 44 00:01:52,905 --> 00:01:55,255 After that, I took my first role managing acute care 45 00:01:55,535 --> 00:01:57,655 pharmacy operations at Tufts Medical Center. 46 00:01:57,795 --> 00:02:01,015 Uh, essentially what that means is getting the, uh, 47 00:02:01,205 --> 00:02:04,935 medications and managing the processes for those medications 48 00:02:05,315 --> 00:02:07,935 to our patients that are in our embedded inpatient units, 49 00:02:08,115 --> 00:02:10,415 as well as to some of our outpatient areas, whether they're 50 00:02:11,055 --> 00:02:14,105 procedural, uh, or, uh, infusion 51 00:02:14,525 --> 00:02:16,065 or other outpatient clinic areas. 52 00:02:16,845 --> 00:02:19,625 Um, during my time at Tufts Medical Center, I was able 53 00:02:19,625 --> 00:02:22,305 to take on more responsibility over those three years within 54 00:02:22,325 --> 00:02:23,425 the pharmacy department 55 00:02:23,805 --> 00:02:24,865 and began the formation 56 00:02:24,865 --> 00:02:26,785 of the first home infusion service for the system. 57 00:02:27,905 --> 00:02:31,005 And then most recently, in 2022, I made the transition 58 00:02:31,225 --> 00:02:33,725 to director of pharmacy role at UCSF Health. 59 00:02:34,145 --> 00:02:35,845 So just over 3000 miles from Boston 60 00:02:36,295 --> 00:02:37,805 where I've been for the past six years. 61 00:02:37,985 --> 00:02:39,685 Uh, now I call San Francisco home, 62 00:02:39,785 --> 00:02:40,805 and I'm fortunate to serve 63 00:02:40,805 --> 00:02:42,525 as several pharmacy teams that I represent. 64 00:02:43,975 --> 00:02:45,025 - Wonderful, wonderful. 65 00:02:45,025 --> 00:02:47,505 Thank you so much for giving us that background on yourself 66 00:02:47,725 --> 00:02:49,385 and what you're currently doing right now. 67 00:02:50,245 --> 00:02:52,825 Um, two really jump into the questions today. 68 00:02:52,925 --> 00:02:54,905 The first thing I really wanted to ask you is 69 00:02:55,295 --> 00:02:57,745 what are the biggest issues you're following in 70 00:02:57,745 --> 00:02:59,065 healthcare in 2024? 71 00:03:01,335 --> 00:03:02,945 - Sure. Well, there's a lot of them, uh, 72 00:03:02,945 --> 00:03:05,665 but I'll focus on a couple, uh, for the, uh, purpose 73 00:03:05,685 --> 00:03:08,905 of time, uh, one of which is workforce trends, 74 00:03:09,285 --> 00:03:12,705 and secondly, uh, what's going on in the payer space. 75 00:03:12,925 --> 00:03:15,065 Uh, payers and insurance, uh, 76 00:03:15,065 --> 00:03:16,985 and health plans are always keeping us on our toes. 77 00:03:17,485 --> 00:03:19,345 Uh, so I'll start with workforce trends. 78 00:03:19,605 --> 00:03:22,345 Um, specifically focusing on the pharmacy workforce is 79 00:03:22,345 --> 00:03:23,985 that really is where I focus 80 00:03:24,085 --> 00:03:27,585 and spend my day to day, um, within the pharmacy department. 81 00:03:28,245 --> 00:03:30,865 Um, some trends to take note of is that applicants 82 00:03:30,865 --> 00:03:33,345 to schools and colleges of pharmacy are down as well 83 00:03:33,345 --> 00:03:35,225 as applicants to residency training programs. 84 00:03:35,225 --> 00:03:36,305 So that, that's our pipeline. 85 00:03:36,325 --> 00:03:39,425 And it's so important that we're not only making sure that 86 00:03:39,965 --> 00:03:41,545 we have larger number 87 00:03:41,725 --> 00:03:44,025 of applicants per fair within our schools 88 00:03:44,045 --> 00:03:47,185 and colleges of pharmacy, making sure that we are, uh, 89 00:03:47,425 --> 00:03:49,185 training the, the best and the brightest, 90 00:03:49,205 --> 00:03:51,305 but also making sure that we have, um, 91 00:03:51,445 --> 00:03:53,425 our training programs constantly fed 92 00:03:53,495 --> 00:03:56,705 with those high quality, uh, applicants going 93 00:03:56,705 --> 00:03:58,305 through our schools and colleges of pharmacy. 94 00:03:59,225 --> 00:04:00,725 So, interestingly enough, uh, 95 00:04:00,725 --> 00:04:04,085 there has been an obvious shift in other sectors 96 00:04:04,085 --> 00:04:07,485 of pharmacy, uh, as well that are, it's just kind 97 00:04:07,485 --> 00:04:08,925 of going in parallel with the trend 98 00:04:08,925 --> 00:04:11,005 that I just mentioned in terms of applications being down 99 00:04:11,025 --> 00:04:12,885 to schools as well as training programs. 100 00:04:14,255 --> 00:04:17,825 Traditional areas of pharmacy have been, uh, hospitals 101 00:04:17,825 --> 00:04:20,385 and health systems as well as community 102 00:04:20,685 --> 00:04:23,665 and independent pharmacies, um, independence 103 00:04:23,665 --> 00:04:24,705 and chains, I should say. 104 00:04:25,285 --> 00:04:28,225 Um, but less traditional, uh, yet emerging. 105 00:04:28,415 --> 00:04:30,585 More and more are pharmacists going to work 106 00:04:30,585 --> 00:04:31,705 for drug manufacturers? 107 00:04:32,015 --> 00:04:33,025 This isn't anything new, 108 00:04:33,245 --> 00:04:35,745 but it looks like the, the trend is increasing, 109 00:04:36,565 --> 00:04:37,625 and this is great. 110 00:04:37,645 --> 00:04:40,225 We want to have pharmacists represented in the 111 00:04:40,225 --> 00:04:41,345 pharmaceutical industry. 112 00:04:41,805 --> 00:04:43,105 Uh, however we are seeing 113 00:04:43,105 --> 00:04:46,025 that shift from the more traditional practice areas, one 114 00:04:46,025 --> 00:04:47,505 of which i, I work in myself, 115 00:04:47,505 --> 00:04:49,065 and so we're just trying to make sure that we have 116 00:04:49,705 --> 00:04:52,905 a good sense of how that is affecting, uh, the pool 117 00:04:53,085 --> 00:04:56,185 of applicants that we are ultimately looking for, uh, 118 00:04:56,285 --> 00:04:58,545 for our needs, uh, in the health system to take care 119 00:04:58,545 --> 00:05:00,265 of our patients within our practice model. 120 00:05:01,735 --> 00:05:03,715 Um, I'll also note that management 121 00:05:03,715 --> 00:05:06,275 and application of pharmacy services are more complicated 122 00:05:06,275 --> 00:05:09,515 than ever, thus needing to, to bolster, um, 123 00:05:09,585 --> 00:05:12,675 with high quality applicants and, and pharmacists. 124 00:05:13,375 --> 00:05:14,515 And then another interesting 125 00:05:14,515 --> 00:05:17,555 and related trend in the workforce is the regular closure 126 00:05:17,895 --> 00:05:19,275 of train of chain 127 00:05:19,275 --> 00:05:21,555 and independent pharmacies, uh, though 128 00:05:21,555 --> 00:05:23,515 for different reasons when you compare chain versus 129 00:05:23,515 --> 00:05:27,795 independent, so independence, uh, it seems like a lot of 130 00:05:27,795 --> 00:05:29,955 that is related to the closures of, related 131 00:05:30,215 --> 00:05:32,275 to if those locations are, continue 132 00:05:32,275 --> 00:05:33,515 to be financially viable. 133 00:05:34,335 --> 00:05:36,845 Um, there's a lot that goes into it. 134 00:05:37,165 --> 00:05:40,285 Reimbursement models as well as competition in addition 135 00:05:40,285 --> 00:05:43,365 to the availability of pharmacists and pharmacy technicians. 136 00:05:44,105 --> 00:05:46,445 And then second to that, focusing more on the change. 137 00:05:46,465 --> 00:05:50,165 You're seeing a lot of consolidation of locations, brick 138 00:05:50,165 --> 00:05:51,165 and mortar locations. 139 00:05:51,545 --> 00:05:54,165 You're seeing, uh, various pain pharmacies, 140 00:05:54,565 --> 00:05:56,485 specifically I'll, I'll call out Walgreens, 141 00:05:56,485 --> 00:05:59,285 leveraging robotics automation and central fill. 142 00:05:59,465 --> 00:06:02,085 Uh, in fact, in 2022 in October, 143 00:06:02,135 --> 00:06:04,485 there was a Wall Street Journal article pointing out about 144 00:06:04,615 --> 00:06:07,605 Walgreen's strategy to centralize and leverage automation 145 00:06:07,605 --> 00:06:09,285 and robotics to, uh, 146 00:06:09,395 --> 00:06:12,565 support their pharmacy operations, uh, nationwide. 147 00:06:13,065 --> 00:06:15,805 And what that's translated into it looks like is, uh, 148 00:06:15,835 --> 00:06:19,405 some consolidation of some physical pharmacy locations, uh, 149 00:06:19,405 --> 00:06:22,365 potentially threatening access pharmacy services. 150 00:06:23,665 --> 00:06:26,565 And then the second trend that I'm monitoring has to do 151 00:06:26,565 --> 00:06:29,205 with payer activity, specifically as it relates 152 00:06:29,205 --> 00:06:31,805 to shifting patients to sites of care that payers, uh, 153 00:06:31,915 --> 00:06:33,125 deem to be lower cost. 154 00:06:34,055 --> 00:06:37,035 And my position is that there should be incentives in place 155 00:06:37,135 --> 00:06:39,755 for a shared provider and patient decision when a patient 156 00:06:39,815 --> 00:06:41,595 is, say for example, getting an infusion, 157 00:06:42,055 --> 00:06:43,955 the health system should be doing everything it can 158 00:06:43,975 --> 00:06:46,035 to promote access while ensuring safety 159 00:06:46,135 --> 00:06:47,275 and effectiveness of therapy. 160 00:06:48,295 --> 00:06:51,035 Um, however, when a payer has a policy that places a lot 161 00:06:51,035 --> 00:06:55,635 of risk on the health system, by shifting those patients 162 00:06:55,735 --> 00:06:58,995 and their infusions to a, uh, say, site of care 163 00:06:58,995 --> 00:07:01,195 that's lower cost for the payer, um, 164 00:07:01,325 --> 00:07:03,515 while the health system is still acquiring 165 00:07:03,575 --> 00:07:05,675 and handling an incredibly expensive, uh, 166 00:07:05,695 --> 00:07:08,915 and complicated drug, uh, the safety profile of that episode 167 00:07:08,915 --> 00:07:10,115 of care has to be considered. 168 00:07:10,985 --> 00:07:14,525 We are seeing more and more monoclonal antibodies, uh, types 169 00:07:14,525 --> 00:07:16,925 of medications that produce a higher immunogenic response 170 00:07:16,925 --> 00:07:20,085 than most other class of medications being forced decisive 171 00:07:20,085 --> 00:07:22,245 care that are typically less equipped to manage or 172 00:07:22,265 --> 00:07:23,925 or less familiar with these therapies. 173 00:07:24,345 --> 00:07:26,885 So these shifts can be prob problematic as the bottom line, 174 00:07:27,345 --> 00:07:29,685 uh, when mandated, uh, without that shared provider 175 00:07:29,685 --> 00:07:31,005 and patient decision making. 176 00:07:32,025 --> 00:07:35,085 My hope is that we can establish our own infrastructure fast 177 00:07:35,085 --> 00:07:37,805 enough to minimize any negative impacts to our patients. 178 00:07:38,855 --> 00:07:39,875 The silver lining in all 179 00:07:39,875 --> 00:07:42,155 of this is health systems are incentivized more than ever 180 00:07:42,215 --> 00:07:43,755 to invest in their own infrastructure 181 00:07:43,855 --> 00:07:45,195 to meet the patient where they are. 182 00:07:45,315 --> 00:07:48,435 I just wish the patient provider could decide which resource 183 00:07:48,435 --> 00:07:49,675 that the health system they should 184 00:07:49,675 --> 00:07:51,075 utilize rather than the payer. 185 00:07:51,215 --> 00:07:52,915 But we are moving in the direction 186 00:07:52,935 --> 00:07:54,835 of making a more well-rounded side 187 00:07:54,835 --> 00:07:57,115 of care strategy in the example that I gave. 188 00:07:57,535 --> 00:07:59,195 So those are a couple trends that I'm watching, 189 00:07:59,215 --> 00:08:00,275 but many more that 190 00:08:00,275 --> 00:08:01,355 we probably don't have time for today. 191 00:08:02,385 --> 00:08:04,555 - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing. 192 00:08:04,625 --> 00:08:07,555 That is very insightful, um, especially 193 00:08:07,555 --> 00:08:08,795 to me in our audience. 194 00:08:09,455 --> 00:08:10,915 The next thing that I wanted to ask you about, 195 00:08:10,935 --> 00:08:13,075 and maybe you kind of answered it already in the, 196 00:08:13,095 --> 00:08:14,275 in the last question, 197 00:08:14,335 --> 00:08:16,515 but what are you most excited about right now 198 00:08:16,615 --> 00:08:17,955 and what does making you nervous, 199 00:08:17,955 --> 00:08:20,155 whether it's something you're dealing with, um, 200 00:08:20,215 --> 00:08:22,875 in your job description or something that you're watching? 201 00:08:25,185 --> 00:08:27,125 - So I'm a bit of a technology nerd, 202 00:08:27,545 --> 00:08:31,605 and I really like the technical side of any process. 203 00:08:32,105 --> 00:08:35,445 Um, in fact, before I was a pre-pharmacy major, 204 00:08:35,645 --> 00:08:37,085 I was a mechanical engineering major, 205 00:08:37,345 --> 00:08:40,845 and I still have that technical interest today, uh, 206 00:08:40,845 --> 00:08:43,725 that drove me to potentially consider an engineering major. 207 00:08:44,425 --> 00:08:46,605 So I guess I'm most excited about technology 208 00:08:46,665 --> 00:08:48,725 and what promises it might hold for healthcare. 209 00:08:49,685 --> 00:08:51,965 Hospitals and health systems have traditionally been slower 210 00:08:52,025 --> 00:08:54,045 to adopt these technologies for a myriad 211 00:08:54,045 --> 00:08:55,405 of reasons we don't have to get into. 212 00:08:55,505 --> 00:08:58,125 But the bottom line is artificial intelligence, 213 00:08:58,125 --> 00:08:59,525 what everyone is talking about it, 214 00:08:59,525 --> 00:09:01,925 it will impact healthcare in one way or another 215 00:09:02,065 --> 00:09:03,125 and hopefully for the better. 216 00:09:03,625 --> 00:09:04,645 Um, the reason I'm 217 00:09:04,645 --> 00:09:08,685 so confident in this projection is I understand the iter 218 00:09:08,715 --> 00:09:10,725 iterative cycle of this technology 219 00:09:10,785 --> 00:09:14,325 to be much faster than any technology we've seen before. 220 00:09:14,775 --> 00:09:17,445 While other technologies have iterated on themselves 221 00:09:18,565 --> 00:09:19,925 o over the course of years, 222 00:09:20,235 --> 00:09:23,045 this one is iterating on itself over the course of months 223 00:09:23,265 --> 00:09:25,285 and will probably continue to get faster, 224 00:09:25,865 --> 00:09:26,885 um, to maybe weeks. 225 00:09:27,545 --> 00:09:30,085 Uh, it seems like so many people are working on solutions. 226 00:09:30,425 --> 00:09:33,845 Uh, a friend of mine who lives in the Bay Area, um, close 227 00:09:33,845 --> 00:09:36,005 to me who I was with just this weekend, 228 00:09:36,225 --> 00:09:38,325 is working on an AI enabled technology 229 00:09:38,325 --> 00:09:41,045 that would allow practitioners in the primary care 230 00:09:41,045 --> 00:09:42,245 environment specifically 231 00:09:42,305 --> 00:09:44,365 to research the most evidence-based options 232 00:09:44,385 --> 00:09:47,325 for patients faster than ever, sift through the guidelines, 233 00:09:47,605 --> 00:09:50,605 sift through the evidence, and integrate those decisions, 234 00:09:50,905 --> 00:09:54,335 uh, into their practice, into the health record, uh, 235 00:09:54,335 --> 00:09:56,695 technologies that we are adopting, uh, 236 00:09:56,715 --> 00:09:57,855 as soon as they hit the market. 237 00:09:57,995 --> 00:10:01,295 So not so much the artificial intelligence probably being 238 00:10:01,295 --> 00:10:02,615 slow to adopt in healthcare, 239 00:10:02,755 --> 00:10:05,255 but technologies that we are adopting that make me excited, 240 00:10:05,875 --> 00:10:08,735 uh, are promising and very complex drugs, uh, 241 00:10:09,055 --> 00:10:12,455 specifically in the oncology world, bispecific antibodies 242 00:10:12,595 --> 00:10:15,295 and chimeric antigen receptor t-cell therapies 243 00:10:16,105 --> 00:10:19,735 while CAR T has been around since 2017 with the introduction 244 00:10:19,735 --> 00:10:21,575 of Kymriah, we literally have hundreds 245 00:10:21,575 --> 00:10:24,575 of these in the drug pipeline now for, while we only had 246 00:10:24,575 --> 00:10:27,615 to worry about a couple, we have many coming at us in the 247 00:10:27,615 --> 00:10:30,335 coming years that are looking at FDA approval potentially. 248 00:10:30,835 --> 00:10:33,055 Uh, and for many disease states more than just cancer. 249 00:10:33,715 --> 00:10:36,615 Uh, at UCSF, we are working on improving the care journey 250 00:10:36,675 --> 00:10:39,135 for the patient by allowing an outpatient episode 251 00:10:39,135 --> 00:10:40,695 of care for these therapies. 252 00:10:40,715 --> 00:10:43,175 So that's specifically, uh, what we're working on, 253 00:10:43,355 --> 00:10:45,375 not only adopting these as fast as we can 254 00:10:45,505 --> 00:10:48,815 where they make sense within our care portfolio, um, 255 00:10:48,875 --> 00:10:51,055 but also allowing an outpatient episode 256 00:10:51,055 --> 00:10:52,215 of care rather than keeping 257 00:10:52,215 --> 00:10:54,055 that patient confined to a hospital bed. 258 00:10:54,115 --> 00:10:57,175 So those are just some examples of things I'm excited for, 259 00:10:57,175 --> 00:10:58,815 things that we're working on, um, 260 00:10:59,155 --> 00:11:00,655 and what's to come hopefully in the future. 261 00:11:01,915 --> 00:11:04,125 - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing. 262 00:11:04,185 --> 00:11:06,885 And doctor, before I let you go, the last thing I wanted 263 00:11:06,885 --> 00:11:09,605 to ask you is, what would the most effective healthcare 264 00:11:09,605 --> 00:11:13,005 leaders need in order to be successful in the next two 265 00:11:13,005 --> 00:11:14,165 to three years, would you say? 266 00:11:16,435 --> 00:11:19,435 - I think the biggest thing for me is I think about the team 267 00:11:19,435 --> 00:11:21,155 that I support and 268 00:11:21,335 --> 00:11:24,235 as I observe friends within my own organization 269 00:11:24,455 --> 00:11:26,635 and the organizations that I've been fortunate enough 270 00:11:26,635 --> 00:11:29,835 to be a part of and serve, is willingness for leaders 271 00:11:30,015 --> 00:11:32,475 to invest in their people through the development 272 00:11:32,475 --> 00:11:33,675 of transferable skills. 273 00:11:34,695 --> 00:11:35,755 So more specifically, 274 00:11:35,755 --> 00:11:38,795 what worries me is the continued exodus from certain sectors 275 00:11:38,795 --> 00:11:41,315 of healthcare or healthcare altogether by folks 276 00:11:41,315 --> 00:11:44,995 who have simply become disengaged from their current roles 277 00:11:45,455 --> 00:11:49,275 and see no way through, uh, their current role 278 00:11:49,275 --> 00:11:51,875 because either they've maxed out, uh, in terms 279 00:11:51,875 --> 00:11:54,885 of their advancement or they just don't have the skills 280 00:11:55,105 --> 00:11:56,805 to self-perceived more than anything 281 00:11:57,395 --> 00:12:00,565 that they don't have the skills to advance in a way that 282 00:12:01,315 --> 00:12:03,445 they would want to, or they just don't know 283 00:12:03,475 --> 00:12:05,085 what the next step for them could be. 284 00:12:05,905 --> 00:12:08,205 So, you know, some examples of transferable skills 285 00:12:08,205 --> 00:12:11,405 that I'm talking about are, it sounds simple, 286 00:12:11,545 --> 00:12:14,485 but it's actually quite complex, is how to implement change, 287 00:12:15,025 --> 00:12:18,525 how to take a process or problem, identify the root issues, 288 00:12:18,825 --> 00:12:19,965 and put together a team 289 00:12:19,985 --> 00:12:21,925 and a scoped approach for that team 290 00:12:22,025 --> 00:12:23,885 to tackle, uh, and improve. 291 00:12:24,265 --> 00:12:25,645 And it doesn't have to be done in a vacuum, 292 00:12:25,905 --> 00:12:28,525 but to be able to take a problem, break it down 293 00:12:28,525 --> 00:12:31,325 to its simple parts and move forward. 294 00:12:31,545 --> 00:12:34,525 And effective change is I think one 295 00:12:34,525 --> 00:12:35,565 of the most important things 296 00:12:35,565 --> 00:12:37,125 that our healthcare system needs. 297 00:12:37,505 --> 00:12:40,645 And that transferable skill is incredibly important. 298 00:12:41,945 --> 00:12:43,705 I think also how to navigate the politics 299 00:12:43,705 --> 00:12:45,105 and bureaucracy of an organization. 300 00:12:45,835 --> 00:12:48,385 Every organization has them, whether we want to admit it 301 00:12:48,505 --> 00:12:50,065 or not, but few people are equipped 302 00:12:50,065 --> 00:12:51,505 to handle these effectively. 303 00:12:52,005 --> 00:12:53,625 Uh, it's stressful situations, 304 00:12:53,725 --> 00:12:56,345 but there are also potential high opportunity situations. 305 00:12:56,985 --> 00:12:58,345 A mentor of mine once told me 306 00:12:58,345 --> 00:13:00,065 to never let a good crisis go to waste. 307 00:13:00,285 --> 00:13:03,025 Um, so you've seen a lot of good advancements come out of 308 00:13:03,095 --> 00:13:05,105 what initially seemed like a crisis. 309 00:13:05,805 --> 00:13:08,305 Uh, you can see the covid situation as an example. 310 00:13:08,475 --> 00:13:10,465 While of course it was detrimental society 311 00:13:10,605 --> 00:13:12,225 to society in a myriad of ways, 312 00:13:12,995 --> 00:13:15,305 there had been some really significant practice 313 00:13:15,305 --> 00:13:16,425 changes that have come from it. 314 00:13:16,925 --> 00:13:19,265 Uh, and finally the, the last transferable skill 315 00:13:19,265 --> 00:13:20,865 that I'll touch on is how to establish 316 00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:22,065 and build a network over time. 317 00:13:22,225 --> 00:13:24,345 A lot of people aren't taught this, uh, 318 00:13:24,365 --> 00:13:26,945 but it's really effective in bringing back new ideas 319 00:13:27,005 --> 00:13:28,305 for consideration and keeping 320 00:13:28,305 --> 00:13:30,745 that engagement within your own practice 321 00:13:30,765 --> 00:13:32,145 or profession really fresh. 322 00:13:32,445 --> 00:13:36,465 So I'll just reiterate that I think the most effective, uh, 323 00:13:36,465 --> 00:13:38,825 healthcare leaders need to be successful, 324 00:13:38,925 --> 00:13:40,145 or whether it's healthcare leaders 325 00:13:40,145 --> 00:13:43,145 or aspiring healthcare leaders, it's that willingness to, 326 00:13:43,445 --> 00:13:46,825 to find or if you're a leader, to invest in their people 327 00:13:46,825 --> 00:13:48,745 through the development of transferable skills. 328 00:13:50,585 --> 00:13:53,715 - Wonderful. Yeah, I really appreciate you talking about 329 00:13:53,715 --> 00:13:55,195 everything that we discussed today 330 00:13:55,255 --> 00:13:56,835 and for those final thoughts. 331 00:13:56,945 --> 00:13:59,755 It's definitely been an amazing and informative discussion. 332 00:13:59,935 --> 00:14:01,155 So again, I wanna thank you so much 333 00:14:01,155 --> 00:14:03,635 for coming back on Becker's Healthcare, um, 334 00:14:03,635 --> 00:14:05,315 and I look forward to connecting with you again soon. 335 00:14:06,705 --> 00:14:08,775 - Thank you so much. It's been my pleasure. .