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- This is Laura Dedo with the
Becker's Healthcare Podcast.

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I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr.

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Hoda Asmar system Chief Clinical
Officer at Providence. Dr.

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Asmar, it's a pleasure to
have you on the podcast today.

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- Good morning, Laura. It's,
um, uh, great to talk to you

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and be able to join you this morning.

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- Now I'm looking forward
to our conversation

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and really learning more about
how you're looking at growth

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and development for
Providence's clinical teams.

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But before we dive into
my broader discussion,

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can you tell us a little bit more

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about yourself and your background?

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I know you've had a
fascinating, uh, career,

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and so I'm looking forward
to making sure you're able

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to share that with our audience too.

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- Great. Uh, so, uh,

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I'm currently the Chief Clinical Officer

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for Providence Health.

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I've been with Providence for a few years,

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and I'd love to talk a
little bit about Providence.

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Um, is, um, it's a, um, a
faith-based organization.

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And, uh, we, um, our
operation span seven states,

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and we cover the entire spectrum

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of the care delivery and beyond.

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My personal background, um,

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as a clinician is infectious disease,

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and I'm someone who started, um,

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originally in my training
in the Middle East

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and, um, did few years
in Europe, in France

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before coming to the US

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and finishing, um, my,
um, clinical training

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and got into leadership roles
a little bit by accident.

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You know, people ask you to
do things and you say yes,

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and then you say yes,
and things start moving.

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But I have held several
leadership roles in, um, uh,

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different provider based organizations,

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but also with private equity,

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pharmacy management and public health.

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Um, I would say my focus is always on

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who benefits from our
work, which is the patients

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and our communities.

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So patient outcomes, a clinical

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and operational transformation,

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and making sure that we are
caring, uh, for the people

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who deliver care, our
physicians, our clinicians,

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and our caregivers.

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- That's amazing to hear,

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and certainly a, a great way
to, um, look at your role in

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what you're doing, no matter what type

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of organization you're working in.

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Now, considering your role

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as the system chief clinical
officer at Providence,

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what are some of the biggest issues

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that you're following
in healthcare for 2024?

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- Um, you know, there is a lot happening

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and, uh, you know, many of
us have for post pandemic,

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the pandemic and post pandemic world,

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but I would, I would
say there are two angles

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or two ways of thinking of
all the issues we are facing.

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And I see some of the issues, you know,

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how opportunities come
in, challenges, some

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of it we may see it as
maybe has a negative angle,

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but I see a lot of positive
and opportunity for change.

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So the two things are the
future of care models.

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Um, the thinking is we want
to transform our future

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and transform the care models

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and move away from traditional thinking

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with a focus on giving the
patients and the clinicians

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and caregivers choice,
autonomy and control.

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I think some of the dynamics
related to workforce

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that started during the pandemic
is continuing to be present

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labor challenges set in
very specific shortages

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and some clinical areas.

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We are seeing a workforce that
is more vocal in a good way,

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wanting to partner, wanting things

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that are different at the same time.

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Also for the first time,

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I think we are at this great juncture

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where I am sensing technology

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and generative AI may play a bigger role

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in how we do things.

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So in summary, the future of care models,

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but with a very specific thinking of

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how is it gonna improve patient outcomes,

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how is it gonna benefit the
patients and the communities

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and our physicians, clinicians

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and caregivers, which is
very, very important to me.

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The second big issue is the sustainability

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of the current healthcare ecosystem.

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So this is not just a
financial sustainability.

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We see a lot in the healthcare news about

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the financial challenges many
provider systems are facing,

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but I see it as a bigger issue of

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where we want this health
system to be as an ecosystem,

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not just providence as provider side

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and how we gonna assure that financial,

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but also outcome sustainability.

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How we gonna address some
of the things we identified

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as priorities during the
pandemic, such as health equity,

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also societal impact.

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So these are the two issues
I'm always focused on,

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and I think of my action plans

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and how my team delivers the work is,

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are we addressing these two issues?

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- That's such a great point,

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and certainly, you know,
fascinating to think through

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what all of this change means

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and how care transformation
is happening, especially

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as you talked about through,
uh, technology, generative ai,

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and then some of the different, um,

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shifts within the workforce.

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So that, that's really interesting.

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Um, how are you thinking about growth

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and modernization of Providence's

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clinical team specifically?

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- Um, for me, growth,
there is two angles of it.

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Um, as a faith-based system that is

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approaching two centuries of history, um,

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the sister founders, um,
started about 175 years ago.

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Uh, the origins, um, the
first sites of our system.

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So I see growers as significantly
connected to our mission.

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So our mission is to serve all,

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especially the poor and vulnerable.

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So I see growth as a
prerequisite to live our mission

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because we wanna continue to
serve, serve more patients,

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serve more people in need,
serve more communities,

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and expand how we deliver care

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for our current, uh, communities.

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So that commitment is very
important to see the growth

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for us to that commitment
and that mission lens.

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Then there is, um, how I
think of growth as a leader.

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To me, growth helps to thrive not just

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to survive, but to thrive.

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It brings new ideas,
new concept, new talent,

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it challenges the status quo,

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and it's like an engine that
keeps running and self charges.

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So to me, it's very important
for us as an organization

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to always think about that
and have very specific plan

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and work towards growth.

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On the modernization, it's
a little bit connected to

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what I talked about earlier on the future

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of care models modernization.

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I put under it there is the transformation

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of the clinical operations,

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but also the role of automation,
the role of ai, the role

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of new discoveries,
again, with the goal is

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what is the impact?

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It's not technology for
the sake of technology.

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It's for example, technology
to reduce waste, to simplify,

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to create better access, better
experience, better outcome,

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and to truly help our
clinicians, physicians workforce

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to be able to continue to deliver the care

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and feel that we are taking care of them

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and reducing the burden on them.

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So it's connected in that way, that way.

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And again, that filter off
modernization to have a bigger,

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more important impact on what
matters most to our patients

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and our clinicians and caregivers.

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- Fantastic. Keeping, keeping
those patients, clinicians,

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caregivers front

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and center, um, seems
to make a lot of sense

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and certainly I know it's not
an easy task to, um, make some

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of those transformational
changes in the modernization

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and really reconfiguring

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how we're thinking about
healthcare delivery,

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but certainly rewarding.

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What are you most excited about

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for the next year and
what makes you nervous? I

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- Would say I'm always
excited about our work

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on quality and safety.

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Um, we, we are always
scanning the environment

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for our opportunity to improve.

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We're very focused on chasing zero harm,

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on reducing mortality,

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and we have done a great work
in the space of reducing, uh,

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mortality related to sepsis.

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We are reducing hospital
acquired infection,

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hospital hospital acquired complications,

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and we continue on that journey.

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So, to me, every time I
look our at our trajectory,

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our results, what we have
done and what we are planning

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and where we are going, it's,
it's a lot of excitement

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and lots of gratitude to all the people

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who focus on quality and safety.

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Um, the other thing is, um, you know,

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we talked a little bit about growth.

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The second thing we are
doing some interesting work

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in the surgery space.

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Peri-op space, again,
focusing on that modernization

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automation and empowering,
um, our clinicians

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and adding tools.

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Uh, so we just with in the
middle of implementing a,

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an AI tool in the surgical
space that gives, uh,

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our surgeons and their teams

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and our patients an
easier way to access us

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and choose us as a place
where they wanna have,

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um, their surgeries.

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The third thing is, um, the
core caring virtual care model.

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So we, we've been hearing a
lot about different systems,

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different providers engaging
in virtual care model.

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Our model, we tested it last
year with the great results.

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So this is a combination of
the care team on the unit,

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but in addition supported by other members

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of the care team 24 7 virtually.

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And it's a model that was developed

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by the care team in the frontline,

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and we are now expanding it.

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So by the end of this
year, we'll have, uh, close

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to 35 units, uh, with that model.

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And, uh, we are monitoring the results

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and we are very pleased
with the progress As far

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as being nervous, um, I'm
someone who has to admit that

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I don't get nervous much,

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but I do have a little bit
of an anxiety about the role

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of technology and also in particular ai.

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Um, so I'm someone who just
stated, I want to progress,

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I want transformation.

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Uh, I definitely wouldn't suggest we need

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to stifle pro progress,

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but I worry about how we
can address the governance

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around ethics, um, around decision making,

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about who's gonna drive the
AI and who's gonna benefit,

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and are we gonna have
the scientific rigor,

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and again, are we gonna
focus on advancing technology

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and AI in a way that has had
the direct impact on patient

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outcomes, which is the most important

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element in the work I do.

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So I feel, um, part of my
commitment, part of my anxiety is

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around how we can, uh, manage and govern

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and address the progress in that space.

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- Well, that's such a great point,

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and certainly having that
mindful implementation

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of technology and artificial
intelligence is so important.

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You know, healthcare,
um, can stand, um, to,

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to have too many issues, you
know, with that kind of thing.

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And so I, I love the way you put that

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and really stated it simply,

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but also helpfully in
terms of, you know, wanting

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to move forward, making
sure that we're continuing

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to look at, uh, helpful advancements,

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but also being mindful about that.

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Um, before we wrap up here,
we've talked about a lot

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of changes in the healthcare
space, whether it's related

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to technology or,

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or patient expectations
in, in other issues.

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What do you feel that most
effective healthcare leaders will

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need in order to be
successful over the next two

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to three years as the
healthcare industry changes?

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- I think there is two
things I I think of,

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and then maybe one more
of a, of a caution.

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The third element. So, um,

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I call it being a challenger spirit.

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Um, someone who also
has a flexible mindset,

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a challenger spirit in the sense, um,

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challenging the status quo,
asking difficult questions, uh,

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being open to new ideas,
new ways of doing things

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that we wanna take, um,
our healthcare system, uh,

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as a nation somewhere better.

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Um, somewhere where we potentially
could face the next big

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pandemic or the next big thing.

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Um, the second thing is,
um, focus on partnerships.

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For us to be able, for all of
us in any role we are, this is

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beyond the provider role,
to be able to move onto

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that future and have
really transformational,

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um, a change.

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It's very important to partner,
uh, partner with others

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and people who come from maybe
different angles, partner

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with our workforce, partner
with our physicians,

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with those two lenses of
the patients and the impact

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and the care team and the clinicians.

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And last, I would say the caution,

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which I touched base on
earlier, is, um, I would say

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do not underestimate the
role of technology in AI

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and make the commitment to
understand, educate yourself

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and engage in it a deeper
level so we can understand

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and we can guide, um, that progress

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and make sure it's delivering
on the set promises,

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uh, of that progress.

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- What a great reminder

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and certainly I love all the
things you mentioned, having

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that flexible mindset, but then
also challenging status quo

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to really make healthcare
better, having the partnerships,

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um, and evolving those
partnerships and being creative.

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And then two, not
underestimating technology

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and AI for what the potential could be.

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Dr. Asmar, thank you so
much for joining us, um,

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on the podcast today.

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This has been such a fascinating
and helpful conversation

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and I look forward to
connecting with you again soon.

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- Thank you very much. Thank you.

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- It's so important for leaders
at the top of organizations

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to keep learning, stay
sharp, grow their networks

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00:14:12,135 --> 00:14:14,675
to help our audience better
do this in a more simplified,

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personalized, and meaningful way.

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