- This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr.
Hoda Asmar system Chief Clinical Officer at Providence. Dr.
Asmar, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
- Good morning, Laura. It's, um, uh, great to talk to you
and be able to join you this morning.
- Now I'm looking forward to our conversation
and really learning more about how you're looking at growth
and development for Providence's clinical teams.
But before we dive into my broader discussion,
can you tell us a little bit more
about yourself and your background?
I know you've had a fascinating, uh, career,
and so I'm looking forward to making sure you're able
to share that with our audience too.
- Great. Uh, so, uh,
I'm currently the Chief Clinical Officer
for Providence Health.
I've been with Providence for a few years,
and I'd love to talk a little bit about Providence.
Um, is, um, it's a, um, a faith-based organization.
And, uh, we, um, our operation span seven states,
and we cover the entire spectrum
of the care delivery and beyond.
My personal background, um,
as a clinician is infectious disease,
and I'm someone who started, um,
originally in my training in the Middle East
and, um, did few years in Europe, in France
before coming to the US
and finishing, um, my, um, clinical training
and got into leadership roles a little bit by accident.
You know, people ask you to do things and you say yes,
and then you say yes, and things start moving.
But I have held several leadership roles in, um, uh,
different provider based organizations,
but also with private equity,
pharmacy management and public health.
Um, I would say my focus is always on
who benefits from our work, which is the patients
and our communities.
So patient outcomes, a clinical
and operational transformation,
and making sure that we are caring, uh, for the people
who deliver care, our physicians, our clinicians,
and our caregivers.
- That's amazing to hear,
and certainly a, a great way to, um, look at your role in
what you're doing, no matter what type
of organization you're working in.
Now, considering your role
as the system chief clinical officer at Providence,
what are some of the biggest issues
that you're following in healthcare for 2024?
- Um, you know, there is a lot happening
and, uh, you know, many of us have for post pandemic,
the pandemic and post pandemic world,
but I would, I would say there are two angles
or two ways of thinking of all the issues we are facing.
And I see some of the issues, you know,
how opportunities come in, challenges, some
of it we may see it as maybe has a negative angle,
but I see a lot of positive and opportunity for change.
So the two things are the future of care models.
Um, the thinking is we want to transform our future
and transform the care models
and move away from traditional thinking
with a focus on giving the patients and the clinicians
and caregivers choice, autonomy and control.
I think some of the dynamics related to workforce
that started during the pandemic is continuing to be present
labor challenges set in very specific shortages
and some clinical areas.
We are seeing a workforce that is more vocal in a good way,
wanting to partner, wanting things
that are different at the same time.
Also for the first time,
I think we are at this great juncture
where I am sensing technology
and generative AI may play a bigger role
in how we do things.
So in summary, the future of care models,
but with a very specific thinking of
how is it gonna improve patient outcomes,
how is it gonna benefit the patients and the communities
and our physicians, clinicians
and caregivers, which is very, very important to me.
The second big issue is the sustainability
of the current healthcare ecosystem.
So this is not just a financial sustainability.
We see a lot in the healthcare news about
the financial challenges many provider systems are facing,
but I see it as a bigger issue of
where we want this health system to be as an ecosystem,
not just providence as provider side
and how we gonna assure that financial,
but also outcome sustainability.
How we gonna address some of the things we identified
as priorities during the pandemic, such as health equity,
also societal impact.
So these are the two issues I'm always focused on,
and I think of my action plans
and how my team delivers the work is,
are we addressing these two issues?
- That's such a great point,
and certainly, you know, fascinating to think through
what all of this change means
and how care transformation is happening, especially
as you talked about through, uh, technology, generative ai,
and then some of the different, um,
shifts within the workforce.
So that, that's really interesting.
Um, how are you thinking about growth
and modernization of Providence's
clinical team specifically?
- Um, for me, growth, there is two angles of it.
Um, as a faith-based system that is
approaching two centuries of history, um,
the sister founders, um, started about 175 years ago.
Uh, the origins, um, the first sites of our system.
So I see growers as significantly connected to our mission.
So our mission is to serve all,
especially the poor and vulnerable.
So I see growth as a prerequisite to live our mission
because we wanna continue to serve, serve more patients,
serve more people in need, serve more communities,
and expand how we deliver care
for our current, uh, communities.
So that commitment is very important to see the growth
for us to that commitment and that mission lens.
Then there is, um, how I think of growth as a leader.
To me, growth helps to thrive not just
to survive, but to thrive.
It brings new ideas, new concept, new talent,
it challenges the status quo,
and it's like an engine that keeps running and self charges.
So to me, it's very important for us as an organization
to always think about that and have very specific plan
and work towards growth.
On the modernization, it's a little bit connected to
what I talked about earlier on the future
of care models modernization.
I put under it there is the transformation
of the clinical operations,
but also the role of automation, the role of ai, the role
of new discoveries, again, with the goal is
what is the impact?
It's not technology for the sake of technology.
It's for example, technology to reduce waste, to simplify,
to create better access, better experience, better outcome,
and to truly help our clinicians, physicians workforce
to be able to continue to deliver the care
and feel that we are taking care of them
and reducing the burden on them.
So it's connected in that way, that way.
And again, that filter off modernization to have a bigger,
more important impact on what matters most to our patients
and our clinicians and caregivers.
- Fantastic. Keeping, keeping those patients, clinicians,
caregivers front
and center, um, seems to make a lot of sense
and certainly I know it's not an easy task to, um, make some
of those transformational changes in the modernization
and really reconfiguring
how we're thinking about healthcare delivery,
but certainly rewarding.
What are you most excited about
for the next year and what makes you nervous? I
- Would say I'm always excited about our work
on quality and safety.
Um, we, we are always scanning the environment
for our opportunity to improve.
We're very focused on chasing zero harm,
on reducing mortality,
and we have done a great work in the space of reducing, uh,
mortality related to sepsis.
We are reducing hospital acquired infection,
hospital hospital acquired complications,
and we continue on that journey.
So, to me, every time I look our at our trajectory,
our results, what we have done and what we are planning
and where we are going, it's, it's a lot of excitement
and lots of gratitude to all the people
who focus on quality and safety.
Um, the other thing is, um, you know,
we talked a little bit about growth.
The second thing we are doing some interesting work
in the surgery space.
Peri-op space, again, focusing on that modernization
automation and empowering, um, our clinicians
and adding tools.
Uh, so we just with in the middle of implementing a,
an AI tool in the surgical space that gives, uh,
our surgeons and their teams
and our patients an easier way to access us
and choose us as a place where they wanna have,
um, their surgeries.
The third thing is, um, the core caring virtual care model.
So we, we've been hearing a lot about different systems,
different providers engaging in virtual care model.
Our model, we tested it last year with the great results.
So this is a combination of the care team on the unit,
but in addition supported by other members
of the care team 24 7 virtually.
And it's a model that was developed
by the care team in the frontline,
and we are now expanding it.
So by the end of this year, we'll have, uh, close
to 35 units, uh, with that model.
And, uh, we are monitoring the results
and we are very pleased with the progress As far
as being nervous, um, I'm someone who has to admit that
I don't get nervous much,
but I do have a little bit of an anxiety about the role
of technology and also in particular ai.
Um, so I'm someone who just stated, I want to progress,
I want transformation.
Uh, I definitely wouldn't suggest we need
to stifle pro progress,
but I worry about how we can address the governance
around ethics, um, around decision making,
about who's gonna drive the AI and who's gonna benefit,
and are we gonna have the scientific rigor,
and again, are we gonna focus on advancing technology
and AI in a way that has had the direct impact on patient
outcomes, which is the most important
element in the work I do.
So I feel, um, part of my commitment, part of my anxiety is
around how we can, uh, manage and govern
and address the progress in that space.
- Well, that's such a great point,
and certainly having that mindful implementation
of technology and artificial intelligence is so important.
You know, healthcare, um, can stand, um, to,
to have too many issues, you know, with that kind of thing.
And so I, I love the way you put that
and really stated it simply,
but also helpfully in terms of, you know, wanting
to move forward, making sure that we're continuing
to look at, uh, helpful advancements,
but also being mindful about that.
Um, before we wrap up here, we've talked about a lot
of changes in the healthcare space, whether it's related
to technology or,
or patient expectations in, in other issues.
What do you feel that most effective healthcare leaders will
need in order to be successful over the next two
to three years as the healthcare industry changes?
- I think there is two things I I think of,
and then maybe one more of a, of a caution.
The third element. So, um,
I call it being a challenger spirit.
Um, someone who also has a flexible mindset,
a challenger spirit in the sense, um,
challenging the status quo, asking difficult questions, uh,
being open to new ideas, new ways of doing things
that we wanna take, um, our healthcare system, uh,
as a nation somewhere better.
Um, somewhere where we potentially could face the next big
pandemic or the next big thing.
Um, the second thing is, um, focus on partnerships.
For us to be able, for all of us in any role we are, this is
beyond the provider role, to be able to move onto
that future and have really transformational,
um, a change.
It's very important to partner, uh, partner with others
and people who come from maybe different angles, partner
with our workforce, partner with our physicians,
with those two lenses of the patients and the impact
and the care team and the clinicians.
And last, I would say the caution,
which I touched base on earlier, is, um, I would say
do not underestimate the role of technology in AI
and make the commitment to understand, educate yourself
and engage in it a deeper level so we can understand
and we can guide, um, that progress
and make sure it's delivering on the set promises,
uh, of that progress.
- What a great reminder
and certainly I love all the things you mentioned, having
that flexible mindset, but then also challenging status quo
to really make healthcare better, having the partnerships,
um, and evolving those partnerships and being creative.
And then two, not underestimating technology
and AI for what the potential could be.
Dr. Asmar, thank you so much for joining us, um,
on the podcast today.
This has been such a fascinating and helpful conversation
and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.
- Thank you very much. Thank you.
- It's so important for leaders at the top of organizations
to keep learning, stay sharp, grow their networks
to help our audience better do this in a more simplified,
personalized, and meaningful way.
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