1 00:00:00,205 --> 00:00:02,575 - This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. 2 00:00:03,155 --> 00:00:05,255 I'm thrilled today to be joined by Dr. Anthony Martin, 3 00:00:05,775 --> 00:00:06,775 clinical assistant professor 4 00:00:06,775 --> 00:00:08,535 of Family Medicine at Wake Forest School 5 00:00:08,535 --> 00:00:10,015 of Medicine, part of Atrium Health. 6 00:00:10,355 --> 00:00:11,415 Dr. Martin, it's a pleasure to 7 00:00:11,415 --> 00:00:12,535 have you on the podcast today. 8 00:00:13,315 --> 00:00:15,335 - Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to chat. 9 00:00:16,665 --> 00:00:18,005 - Now, I know we have a lot to talk about. 10 00:00:18,015 --> 00:00:20,165 We're gonna dive a little bit into sports medicine 11 00:00:20,265 --> 00:00:23,005 and some of the work you're doing to care for elite athletes 12 00:00:23,105 --> 00:00:25,485 as well as other athletes within the community. 13 00:00:25,505 --> 00:00:27,925 But before we dive into my broader questions, 14 00:00:27,945 --> 00:00:29,085 can you tell us a little bit more 15 00:00:29,085 --> 00:00:30,325 about yourself and your background? 16 00:00:31,745 --> 00:00:35,585 - Absolutely. Um, so yeah, I graduated from, uh, university 17 00:00:35,605 --> 00:00:40,425 of Pittsburgh, um, undergrad in, um, 2003. 18 00:00:40,705 --> 00:00:42,865 I went to Temple University School of Medicine, 19 00:00:42,865 --> 00:00:43,985 graduated in 2008. 20 00:00:44,065 --> 00:00:46,985 I did my residency at Reading Hospital in Reading 21 00:00:46,985 --> 00:00:48,705 Pennsylvania, which is now Tower Health. 22 00:00:49,085 --> 00:00:52,465 Um, and then I did a sports medicine fellowship at Carolinas 23 00:00:52,465 --> 00:00:53,825 Medical Center in 2011 24 00:00:53,925 --> 00:00:57,065 and joined, um, atrium, which is now advocate. 25 00:00:57,465 --> 00:00:59,345 I currently, uh, sit at the rank 26 00:00:59,345 --> 00:01:01,385 of clinical assistant professor at the Wake 27 00:01:01,385 --> 00:01:02,545 Forest School of Medicine. 28 00:01:03,005 --> 00:01:05,825 Uh, I also serve as the associate program director 29 00:01:05,885 --> 00:01:08,305 for the Primary Care Sports Medicine fellowship, 30 00:01:08,565 --> 00:01:10,545 and I'm also the point of care ultrasound director 31 00:01:10,685 --> 00:01:14,385 for Department of Family Medicine in my sports, uh, roles. 32 00:01:14,705 --> 00:01:18,705 I am the head team physician for UNC Charlotte Football, uh, 33 00:01:18,945 --> 00:01:20,385 although I work with all the sports as well. 34 00:01:20,765 --> 00:01:23,785 Um, I also, um, served as ringside physician 35 00:01:23,785 --> 00:01:25,745 with USA boxing, covering regional events 36 00:01:25,745 --> 00:01:28,425 with Golden Gloves in North Carolina, uh, from 37 00:01:28,425 --> 00:01:30,385 around 2015 to around 2019. 38 00:01:33,175 --> 00:01:35,435 - Wow, that's amazing. And it seems like, you know, 39 00:01:35,435 --> 00:01:38,155 it would take a lot to care for athletes 40 00:01:38,155 --> 00:01:40,715 who are competing in such a high level, um, 41 00:01:40,715 --> 00:01:42,035 whether it it's locally 42 00:01:42,255 --> 00:01:45,195 or kind of in some of those international competitions. 43 00:01:47,035 --> 00:01:49,655 - It, it can, um, you know, you have to kind 44 00:01:49,655 --> 00:01:51,895 of always be available, um, you know, 45 00:01:52,075 --> 00:01:55,095 and communicate well, whether you're discussing 46 00:01:55,095 --> 00:01:56,855 with athletes, um, in person 47 00:01:57,035 --> 00:02:00,495 or coordinating care through the athletic training team and, 48 00:02:00,555 --> 00:02:01,575 and and whatnot. 49 00:02:01,715 --> 00:02:04,855 So, um, availability is really important in being able 50 00:02:04,855 --> 00:02:07,335 to work in those athletes when those injuries happen, 51 00:02:07,335 --> 00:02:09,495 because unfortunately, we don't have a crystal ball. 52 00:02:09,675 --> 00:02:11,335 So being adaptable, it's important. 53 00:02:12,845 --> 00:02:14,685 - Absolutely. That, that's such great advice, and, 54 00:02:14,685 --> 00:02:17,165 and certainly I can imagine for someone who's trying 55 00:02:17,165 --> 00:02:19,325 to get into the sports medicine space 56 00:02:19,545 --> 00:02:22,085 and really to understand what that schedule looks like, 57 00:02:22,185 --> 00:02:23,765 and, um, you know, what you need in order 58 00:02:23,765 --> 00:02:25,485 to be successful there is truly helpful. 59 00:02:26,185 --> 00:02:27,485 Now, what are some of the big trends 60 00:02:27,485 --> 00:02:29,085 that you're watching in healthcare as well 61 00:02:29,085 --> 00:02:31,245 as sports medicine in particular? You 62 00:02:31,665 --> 00:02:34,425 - Know, one of the biggest trend I've seen in sports 63 00:02:34,705 --> 00:02:35,865 medicine is just general awareness. 64 00:02:36,125 --> 00:02:37,505 You know, um, we used 65 00:02:37,505 --> 00:02:39,945 to talk about Monday morning quarterbacks, uh, 66 00:02:40,405 --> 00:02:43,585 and speak that would traditionally be about coaching 67 00:02:43,785 --> 00:02:45,225 decisions and players' abilities. 68 00:02:45,845 --> 00:02:48,065 Uh, you know, uh, uh, at the beginning of the week, 69 00:02:48,425 --> 00:02:50,345 although there's been more of a spotlight on the sports 70 00:02:50,625 --> 00:02:52,345 medicine team that I've noticed, right. 71 00:02:52,375 --> 00:02:56,545 Some of the, um, specific instances include Tua, um, 72 00:02:56,545 --> 00:02:57,705 when he was, you know, at Miami 73 00:02:57,965 --> 00:03:00,365 and the management of his brain injury during 74 00:03:00,365 --> 00:03:02,765 that NFL game would, in the initial diagnosis 75 00:03:02,765 --> 00:03:06,045 of a potential back injury, was highly criticized, not only 76 00:03:06,065 --> 00:03:07,325 by medical professionals, 77 00:03:07,325 --> 00:03:09,485 but also by commentators in the general public. 78 00:03:10,025 --> 00:03:12,565 Um, and his early return to play put him at risk 79 00:03:12,565 --> 00:03:14,285 for further injury given he was still 80 00:03:14,285 --> 00:03:15,845 suffering from concussion. 81 00:03:16,145 --> 00:03:18,285 Um, there was a big, you know, backlash. 82 00:03:18,625 --> 00:03:19,805 Um, as a result of that, 83 00:03:19,875 --> 00:03:21,965 because of all the awareness, you know, 84 00:03:22,005 --> 00:03:24,725 I think there's also been a dramatic increase in the 85 00:03:24,725 --> 00:03:27,005 awareness of sudden cardiac arrest in athletes. 86 00:03:27,625 --> 00:03:30,205 One of the most public examples of this was DeMar Hamlin 87 00:03:30,355 --> 00:03:32,205 with the BLO he received through the chest during 88 00:03:32,205 --> 00:03:33,205 and a violent tackle. 89 00:03:33,665 --> 00:03:37,525 Um, and then Bronny James who collapsed as a result 90 00:03:37,525 --> 00:03:39,325 of his congenital heart condition. 91 00:03:39,785 --> 00:03:42,405 Um, you know, the prompt response 92 00:03:42,425 --> 00:03:44,605 and recognition of life-threatening condition in these 93 00:03:44,605 --> 00:03:47,085 started athletes literally saved lives, right? 94 00:03:47,185 --> 00:03:50,085 So awareness not only amongst professional 95 00:03:50,085 --> 00:03:52,285 and collegiate sports medicine teams have increased, 96 00:03:52,825 --> 00:03:57,645 but also equally, um, importantly at the high school varsity 97 00:03:57,645 --> 00:04:00,685 and junior varsity levels as well, just 98 00:04:00,685 --> 00:04:03,125 because awareness at all levels are important if we're gonna 99 00:04:03,125 --> 00:04:04,605 prevent these events from happening, 100 00:04:04,665 --> 00:04:07,845 and if they do happen to make sure we respond appropriately. 101 00:04:08,185 --> 00:04:10,885 So I'd say just awareness of the sports medicine team 102 00:04:10,905 --> 00:04:14,805 and our role, um, and some of the services we provide. 103 00:04:15,145 --> 00:04:17,565 Um, that's one of the key areas that I've noticed. 104 00:04:19,245 --> 00:04:20,425 - That's fascinating to hear. 105 00:04:20,565 --> 00:04:21,625 And certainly, you know, 106 00:04:21,625 --> 00:04:25,305 looking at those big national instances of people guessing 107 00:04:25,305 --> 00:04:26,585 or second guessing, you know, 108 00:04:26,615 --> 00:04:28,665 what should have happened on the medical side, um, 109 00:04:28,805 --> 00:04:31,705 for any given situation, um, you know, 110 00:04:32,165 --> 00:04:34,825 it definitely seems like it would be a challenge to have 111 00:04:35,215 --> 00:04:37,185 that kind of scrutiny on you, 112 00:04:37,205 --> 00:04:39,065 and obviously maybe you're not, you know, 113 00:04:39,065 --> 00:04:40,185 on the NFL sideline. 114 00:04:40,285 --> 00:04:42,665 But, um, when you think about the decisions 115 00:04:42,665 --> 00:04:45,105 that you're making with the athletes, um, you know, 116 00:04:45,775 --> 00:04:49,185 from kind of snap decisions in some cases during the game or 117 00:04:49,185 --> 00:04:51,505 after the game, trying to decide about, like you said, 118 00:04:51,655 --> 00:04:53,905 awareness of avail availability 119 00:04:53,925 --> 00:04:56,185 and knowing that in some cases there's gonna be a 120 00:04:56,185 --> 00:04:57,225 lot of opinions about that. 121 00:04:57,765 --> 00:05:00,105 Um, how much pressure does that put on you? 122 00:05:00,165 --> 00:05:01,265 How do you respond to that? 123 00:05:01,265 --> 00:05:03,305 And I can imagine, you know, definitely needing 124 00:05:03,305 --> 00:05:05,305 to keep the player first and foremost in your mind. 125 00:05:06,295 --> 00:05:08,555 - Uh, you just said one of the most important things right 126 00:05:08,555 --> 00:05:10,795 there at the end of your statement, uh, 127 00:05:10,795 --> 00:05:14,595 keep the player at the formo at first and foremost, right? 128 00:05:14,615 --> 00:05:15,955 You, you may be the team physician, 129 00:05:15,975 --> 00:05:18,555 but your obligation is to that individual who's 130 00:05:18,615 --> 00:05:19,875 who you're treating in front of you. 131 00:05:20,295 --> 00:05:22,635 You want to keep them as healthy as possible, 132 00:05:22,775 --> 00:05:23,915 and you want to attend to 133 00:05:23,915 --> 00:05:26,155 that injury in real time and make the best decision. 134 00:05:26,615 --> 00:05:29,435 You know, like I said, I serve in an academic role as well, 135 00:05:29,535 --> 00:05:31,675 so I, I usually have fellows 136 00:05:31,675 --> 00:05:33,395 or residents with me on the sidelines. 137 00:05:33,815 --> 00:05:36,155 Um, and I always tell them, you know, try 138 00:05:36,155 --> 00:05:37,275 to forget the cameras are there 139 00:05:37,345 --> 00:05:39,995 because, you know, if it's a televised game 140 00:05:40,095 --> 00:05:42,395 and it's a lot of pressure, it's a conference game 141 00:05:42,395 --> 00:05:45,235 and it, it has eligibility for bowl game implications, 142 00:05:45,735 --> 00:05:47,955 you know, that part's not important. 143 00:05:48,055 --> 00:05:49,915 What's important is the person in front of you 144 00:05:49,915 --> 00:05:52,315 who needs your, who needs your help, who needs your care, 145 00:05:52,895 --> 00:05:55,275 um, because literally sometimes lives 146 00:05:55,295 --> 00:05:56,395 are on the line, right? 147 00:05:56,535 --> 00:05:59,925 So, uh, it's a, it is just important to always be vigilant 148 00:06:00,145 --> 00:06:04,405 and, um, be ready to attend to what needs to happen as well 149 00:06:04,405 --> 00:06:07,765 as, you know, have a good awareness of the, what's common 150 00:06:07,765 --> 00:06:10,005 and what's uncommon, and being prepared 151 00:06:10,185 --> 00:06:11,805 for whatever may happen in front of you. 152 00:06:12,565 --> 00:06:13,565 I, 153 00:06:13,955 --> 00:06:15,315 - I think that's such a great point 154 00:06:15,535 --> 00:06:17,915 and so helpful to kind of cut through everything else 155 00:06:17,985 --> 00:06:19,755 that potentially arises, you know, 156 00:06:19,755 --> 00:06:22,235 when you're in such a high profile situation and, 157 00:06:22,235 --> 00:06:24,195 and being able to treat the patient 158 00:06:24,455 --> 00:06:27,035 and understand what they need in any given situation. 159 00:06:27,545 --> 00:06:29,715 When you look at sports medicine as a whole, 160 00:06:29,905 --> 00:06:31,035 what are you excited about 161 00:06:31,255 --> 00:06:32,915 for the next year and what makes you nervous? 162 00:06:34,575 --> 00:06:35,835 - Uh, yeah, there's a, 163 00:06:35,955 --> 00:06:37,795 there's a lot I'm excited about, right? 164 00:06:37,855 --> 00:06:40,675 You know, I mean, research, sports medicine is, 165 00:06:40,855 --> 00:06:43,315 is a younger field compared to some other areas 166 00:06:43,415 --> 00:06:44,435 of medicine, right? 167 00:06:44,435 --> 00:06:46,235 So there's still a lot of publications 168 00:06:46,235 --> 00:06:47,835 that are, uh, coming out. 169 00:06:47,975 --> 00:06:49,635 One of the areas that I'm really excited about 170 00:06:49,655 --> 00:06:50,755 is orthobiologics. 171 00:06:51,055 --> 00:06:55,755 Um, orthobiologics is a, a broad area that is, 172 00:06:56,135 --> 00:06:58,315 you know, it's receiving a lot of attention in the media, 173 00:06:58,455 --> 00:07:01,155 the advertising world, and professional collegiate sports. 174 00:07:01,745 --> 00:07:04,635 This category of medicine is using human tissues 175 00:07:04,635 --> 00:07:08,235 or growth factors to help facilitate recovery in an injured 176 00:07:08,235 --> 00:07:09,235 individuals, right? 177 00:07:09,235 --> 00:07:12,675 This can be with elite athletes trying to return to sport 178 00:07:12,795 --> 00:07:14,435 after an injury such 179 00:07:14,435 --> 00:07:16,755 as a partially ruptured pectoralis tendon 180 00:07:16,755 --> 00:07:20,355 or maybe some refractory patellar tendon issues, um, 181 00:07:20,415 --> 00:07:22,075 and get them back on the field faster. 182 00:07:22,375 --> 00:07:25,115 Or it can be a chronic degenerative condition like 183 00:07:25,115 --> 00:07:28,795 osteoarthritis in a 50-year-old who used to be an athlete, 184 00:07:28,795 --> 00:07:30,075 but just wants to stay in the game 185 00:07:30,175 --> 00:07:33,475 and, um, keep up their activity levels, play 186 00:07:33,475 --> 00:07:34,995 with their kids, whatever the case is. 187 00:07:35,495 --> 00:07:36,875 Um, some examples of this, 188 00:07:37,155 --> 00:07:40,435 specifically platelet rich plasma, um, is one 189 00:07:40,435 --> 00:07:41,675 that receives a lot of attention, 190 00:07:41,855 --> 00:07:43,795 but also some of the, um, up 191 00:07:43,795 --> 00:07:46,315 and comers are bone marrow mesenchymal aspirate concentrate, 192 00:07:46,315 --> 00:07:47,955 which is known as bmac, as well 193 00:07:47,955 --> 00:07:49,995 as micronized fat or lip aspirate. 194 00:07:50,255 --> 00:07:53,635 The latter of these two are considered stem cells. Okay? 195 00:07:53,815 --> 00:07:56,035 Um, these tissues are harvested from 196 00:07:56,585 --> 00:07:59,875 potential donor sites like drawing blood with PRP, 197 00:08:00,125 --> 00:08:02,835 doing a bone marrow harvest from the hip or the bone for, 198 00:08:02,895 --> 00:08:04,915 or hip or leg bone for bmac, 199 00:08:04,975 --> 00:08:07,875 and then aspirating fat from the abdomen or flank region. 200 00:08:08,415 --> 00:08:10,075 Um, and then you're injecting 201 00:08:10,075 --> 00:08:11,715 that into the target area, right? 202 00:08:11,735 --> 00:08:14,475 To try to activate the body's natural inflammatory cascade 203 00:08:14,975 --> 00:08:17,475 to either restart the healing process, promote growth, 204 00:08:17,575 --> 00:08:19,035 or, or both of these things. 205 00:08:19,695 --> 00:08:22,315 Um, the, the data that's already out there, 206 00:08:22,615 --> 00:08:25,715 the safety data is robust and, and compelling. 207 00:08:26,255 --> 00:08:28,875 The, um, early data is robust, 208 00:08:28,935 --> 00:08:30,155 but, you know, there, there's just 209 00:08:30,195 --> 00:08:31,235 a little bit of bias out there. 210 00:08:31,395 --> 00:08:32,955 'cause a lot of the studies are done 211 00:08:32,955 --> 00:08:34,275 by the industry that makes a product. 212 00:08:34,415 --> 00:08:36,875 So that always puts an asterisk in people's mind. 213 00:08:37,375 --> 00:08:38,795 I'm excited for all the research 214 00:08:38,795 --> 00:08:40,155 that's developing in this area. 215 00:08:40,165 --> 00:08:42,515 Personally, I've seen a lot of success 216 00:08:42,515 --> 00:08:43,635 with it in my patients. 217 00:08:43,875 --> 00:08:45,875 I do. All of the procedures that I mentioned, 218 00:08:46,585 --> 00:08:49,155 it's been a game changer, not just for my athletes, 219 00:08:49,215 --> 00:08:51,995 but my weekend warriors too, who are in their forties 220 00:08:52,095 --> 00:08:54,395 and fifties, have some mild to moderate, um, 221 00:08:54,425 --> 00:08:56,685 arthritis from prior injuries 222 00:08:56,705 --> 00:08:58,885 and just want to keep that active lifestyle. 223 00:08:59,465 --> 00:09:00,765 You know, it's exciting 224 00:09:00,765 --> 00:09:03,525 because, um, of the success I'm seeing now, 225 00:09:03,705 --> 00:09:07,405 the concerns I have in this same vein, um, are also related 226 00:09:07,505 --> 00:09:09,125 to some of the bad actors in the space. 227 00:09:09,125 --> 00:09:10,965 There's people out there promoting 228 00:09:10,965 --> 00:09:13,645 that they're doing quote unquote stem cells when they're 229 00:09:13,765 --> 00:09:16,925 actually not, they're, they're using amniotic fluid products 230 00:09:17,025 --> 00:09:20,325 or, um, different, uh, variations thereof 231 00:09:20,385 --> 00:09:23,805 or other products that, that aren't necessarily regulated 232 00:09:23,805 --> 00:09:26,925 by the FDA as well as, um, some, some 233 00:09:26,925 --> 00:09:28,165 of these clinicians aren't, uh, 234 00:09:28,165 --> 00:09:32,645 actual physicians doing the procedures and, um, and or, um, 235 00:09:33,265 --> 00:09:34,445 or advanced practitioners. 236 00:09:34,545 --> 00:09:37,005 Um, they're, they're just in a different field altogether. 237 00:09:37,425 --> 00:09:40,005 Um, so, you know, concerns for people who are charging, 238 00:09:40,625 --> 00:09:42,285 you know, tens of thousands of dollars 239 00:09:42,785 --> 00:09:45,805 and creating all this marketing campaigns and, 240 00:09:45,865 --> 00:09:47,885 and people are dipping in their 4 0 1 ks and, 241 00:09:47,885 --> 00:09:51,205 and paying all this money, um, where they're, 242 00:09:51,205 --> 00:09:53,485 they might not be getting exactly what they say they are. 243 00:09:53,785 --> 00:09:56,045 So, you know, I, I, I'd I'd recommend for folks 244 00:09:56,065 --> 00:09:58,085 who are considering any of these procedures 245 00:09:58,085 --> 00:10:00,845 to do your homework and know what you're getting, why, 246 00:10:00,945 --> 00:10:03,965 and the reality of what's happening with these procedures 247 00:10:03,965 --> 00:10:06,925 and not, um, just listening to the, um, 248 00:10:07,305 --> 00:10:08,605 the snake oral salesman 249 00:10:08,705 --> 00:10:10,085 who might be lurking around the corner. 250 00:10:12,435 --> 00:10:13,455 - That's such a great point, 251 00:10:13,515 --> 00:10:16,215 and certainly, you know, fascinating to see some 252 00:10:16,215 --> 00:10:19,135 of the different developments on the sports medicine space. 253 00:10:19,635 --> 00:10:21,775 Um, like you mentioned, some of the things 254 00:10:21,775 --> 00:10:25,015 that are actually, um, science-based and in fact-based 255 00:10:25,075 --> 00:10:28,135 and have a really great, um, literature behind them to show 256 00:10:28,135 --> 00:10:31,535 that they're forwarding the field in comparing 257 00:10:31,535 --> 00:10:32,935 that into something that, you know, 258 00:10:32,935 --> 00:10:34,775 really is more hype in marketing dollars. 259 00:10:35,355 --> 00:10:37,855 Um, it, it just really seems like there is a lot 260 00:10:37,855 --> 00:10:40,455 of opportunity for, um, improving patient care, 261 00:10:40,595 --> 00:10:42,815 but then to try and educate patients 262 00:10:42,815 --> 00:10:44,335 and understand that, you know, 263 00:10:44,515 --> 00:10:46,335 not everything they hear about is gonna be, 264 00:10:46,555 --> 00:10:47,655 um, beneficial for them. 265 00:10:47,675 --> 00:10:49,335 And some things can actually be hurtful 266 00:10:50,125 --> 00:10:52,535 from your standpoint when you're working with athletes 267 00:10:52,555 --> 00:10:54,335 and trying to help them decipher 268 00:10:54,445 --> 00:10:56,415 what the next step in their care is gonna be. 269 00:10:56,875 --> 00:10:59,135 Um, what are those conversations usually like? 270 00:10:59,355 --> 00:11:02,175 How do you really make sure that you are partnering 271 00:11:02,175 --> 00:11:03,655 with them to help them achieve their goals 272 00:11:03,715 --> 00:11:07,335 and then, you know, really looking ahead to, um, what, 273 00:11:07,565 --> 00:11:09,015 what is gonna be most helpful 274 00:11:09,035 --> 00:11:10,655 for them in different types of treatments? 275 00:11:11,795 --> 00:11:13,445 - Yeah. Whenever I'm dealing with an athlete 276 00:11:13,505 --> 00:11:18,125 who has a specific injury, I, I try to one, just be, 277 00:11:18,425 --> 00:11:21,535 you know, open to all, all avenues of treatment 278 00:11:21,535 --> 00:11:22,695 and I try to be complete, right? 279 00:11:22,755 --> 00:11:23,815 So there's always a lot, 280 00:11:23,815 --> 00:11:26,015 there's always more than one option, okay? 281 00:11:26,115 --> 00:11:28,055 So that, that's the complex portion. 282 00:11:28,195 --> 00:11:31,295 Uh, the complex part of this is, um, you talk 283 00:11:31,295 --> 00:11:33,215 to five different, um, physicians 284 00:11:33,215 --> 00:11:35,095 or providers, you might get five different 285 00:11:35,255 --> 00:11:36,375 approaches to the same problem. 286 00:11:37,175 --> 00:11:41,575 I try to incorporate my athletes', um, opinions 287 00:11:41,635 --> 00:11:44,975 and, um, decision-making into it, you know, in, 288 00:11:44,975 --> 00:11:46,895 in a model called shared decision making. 289 00:11:47,495 --> 00:11:48,855 I give them the information about 290 00:11:48,875 --> 00:11:49,975 what's going on with their body. 291 00:11:50,175 --> 00:11:52,455 I tell them, Hey, you know, based on my, 292 00:11:52,585 --> 00:11:56,125 based on your history, my observation of the actual injury 293 00:11:56,185 --> 00:11:58,125 or watching a video of it 294 00:11:58,225 --> 00:12:02,565 or whatever, you know, um, your exam findings as well 295 00:12:02,665 --> 00:12:05,765 as the imaging that we may have ordered, including MRIs, 296 00:12:05,915 --> 00:12:07,445 ultrasounds, lab work, whatever. 297 00:12:07,585 --> 00:12:09,925 Here's my understanding of what's going on, right? 298 00:12:10,105 --> 00:12:12,005 So here's your actual diagnosis. 299 00:12:12,065 --> 00:12:13,925 Now here's everything that can be done about it. 300 00:12:14,025 --> 00:12:16,485 Now, some of those things may be conservative, some 301 00:12:16,485 --> 00:12:18,005 of those things may be middle of the road 302 00:12:18,105 --> 00:12:21,085 and include, um, different types of injections, some 303 00:12:21,085 --> 00:12:22,085 of which, like I mentioned 304 00:12:22,085 --> 00:12:25,685 before, um, could be a standard corticosteroid injection. 305 00:12:26,025 --> 00:12:27,525 It could be different medications. 306 00:12:27,975 --> 00:12:31,405 There could be surgery required or optional, right? 307 00:12:31,405 --> 00:12:33,765 And there might be several different surgical approaches 308 00:12:33,765 --> 00:12:35,725 to the, the same problem, right? 309 00:12:35,725 --> 00:12:39,605 So I try to actually educate the athlete on all of the, 310 00:12:39,605 --> 00:12:43,605 those options and let them let 311 00:12:43,605 --> 00:12:45,005 that kind of resonate with them for a minute. 312 00:12:45,215 --> 00:12:47,565 Oftentimes, based on their own personal values, 313 00:12:47,635 --> 00:12:50,725 they might have a, one of those areas that 314 00:12:51,355 --> 00:12:52,765 sits better with them than others. 315 00:12:53,225 --> 00:12:55,445 Um, or sometimes they just say, you know, 316 00:12:55,545 --> 00:12:56,765 Hey doc, I trust you. 317 00:12:56,885 --> 00:12:57,965 I really want your opinion. 318 00:12:58,075 --> 00:12:59,285 What would you do in this scenario? 319 00:12:59,285 --> 00:13:00,285 And then I give 'em that opinion. 320 00:13:00,705 --> 00:13:03,645 But I, I try to really incorporate their, their values in 321 00:13:03,645 --> 00:13:07,985 what we want to do, um, to best treat them 322 00:13:08,165 --> 00:13:09,345 and get them back on the field. 323 00:13:09,625 --> 00:13:11,545 'cause at the end of the day, I think every athlete just 324 00:13:11,545 --> 00:13:12,625 wants to be able to perform. 325 00:13:13,005 --> 00:13:16,025 Um, that's my goal is to help 'em get, get back out there, 326 00:13:16,055 --> 00:13:18,865 perform, do what's best for themselves to get, 327 00:13:18,925 --> 00:13:19,985 get 'em back out there quickly. 328 00:13:20,525 --> 00:13:23,145 But, you know, I also try to prep them like, Hey, 329 00:13:23,145 --> 00:13:25,425 we could do this and it might get you out there faster, 330 00:13:25,685 --> 00:13:28,105 but at the same time, here's what you may have 331 00:13:28,105 --> 00:13:29,185 to deal with long term. 332 00:13:29,245 --> 00:13:30,985 If we continue to do, you know, 333 00:13:30,985 --> 00:13:33,185 things like repetitive corticosteroid injections 334 00:13:33,445 --> 00:13:36,785 or if we continue to ignore this ruptured ligament 335 00:13:36,785 --> 00:13:39,745 that you may suffer from some arthritic changes over the 336 00:13:39,745 --> 00:13:40,825 road, uh, down the road, 337 00:13:41,005 --> 00:13:43,385 or, you know, here's what's okay to play through 338 00:13:43,525 --> 00:13:46,185 and here's what's not okay to play through, you know, I kind 339 00:13:46,185 --> 00:13:47,665 of ge try to guide them in that role. 340 00:13:50,485 --> 00:13:51,665 - That's fascinating to hear. 341 00:13:51,815 --> 00:13:53,825 Well, before we wrap up our conversation, 342 00:13:53,985 --> 00:13:57,145 I know you mentioned you work with, um, training physicians 343 00:13:57,245 --> 00:14:00,385 and in early career physicians focused on sports medicine. 344 00:14:00,485 --> 00:14:03,505 So I was wondering if you could talk about what it's like 345 00:14:03,525 --> 00:14:06,305 to care for an elite athlete as a team physician, 346 00:14:06,305 --> 00:14:07,465 and what advice do you have 347 00:14:07,465 --> 00:14:09,305 for those early career physicians who want 348 00:14:09,305 --> 00:14:10,825 to follow the same path? 349 00:14:13,155 --> 00:14:14,895 - One, it's truly a blessing to be able to work 350 00:14:14,895 --> 00:14:17,095 with like high level athletes, elite athletes. 351 00:14:17,335 --> 00:14:19,975 I take care of, um, UNC Charlotte, like I mentioned, 352 00:14:20,235 --> 00:14:22,535 you know, I'm, I'm fortunate enough that some 353 00:14:22,535 --> 00:14:25,815 of my colleagues who work with, uh, the Panthers 354 00:14:25,815 --> 00:14:28,695 and the Charlotte FC have referred me those athletes in 355 00:14:28,695 --> 00:14:31,815 helping get them back on the, the field sooner, sometimes 356 00:14:31,815 --> 00:14:34,895 with orthobiologics or other endeavors and things like that. 357 00:14:35,515 --> 00:14:37,975 It, it's an honor and a blessing to be able to work with, 358 00:14:38,035 --> 00:14:39,975 you know, the folks we're watching on Saturdays 359 00:14:39,975 --> 00:14:44,375 and Sundays with that, you know, not to quote Spider-Man, 360 00:14:44,375 --> 00:14:45,975 but I'm gonna do it anyway with great, um, 361 00:14:46,345 --> 00:14:48,055 power comes great responsibility, right? 362 00:14:48,075 --> 00:14:51,015 So you have to, while it's a privilege, you have 363 00:14:51,045 --> 00:14:53,685 to take it seriously and you have to do your due diligence. 364 00:14:54,265 --> 00:14:58,405 One, I'd say, um, be vigilant when you're on the sidelines 365 00:14:58,505 --> 00:15:02,125 to my younger colleagues who are just getting into the game 366 00:15:02,345 --> 00:15:04,405 or, um, or interested in the future 367 00:15:04,405 --> 00:15:05,485 of it, put your phones away. 368 00:15:05,505 --> 00:15:06,885 You can't treat what you didn't see, 369 00:15:07,335 --> 00:15:10,565 especially on high velocity plays like kick returns when 370 00:15:10,565 --> 00:15:13,445 players reach top speeds, have a good understanding 371 00:15:13,465 --> 00:15:15,205 of what's the worst thing that can happen. 372 00:15:15,705 --> 00:15:18,325 For instance, there's a, there was a death in a, um, 373 00:15:18,345 --> 00:15:21,645 hockey player who was a former Pittsburgh penguin. 374 00:15:21,645 --> 00:15:23,325 I, I say this 'cause I'm from Pittsburgh 375 00:15:23,325 --> 00:15:25,405 and a big, big fan of Pittsburgh sports in general. 376 00:15:25,475 --> 00:15:28,845 Unfortunately, he caught a blade to the throat from, uh, uh, 377 00:15:29,355 --> 00:15:31,605 from somebody's skate and died from the injury. 378 00:15:32,025 --> 00:15:34,645 Um, now that's a hard thing to predict or prevent, 379 00:15:34,785 --> 00:15:38,125 but being aware of all potential 380 00:15:39,085 --> 00:15:41,885 catastrophic things that can happen in your sport, whether 381 00:15:41,885 --> 00:15:43,925 that's boxing, whether that's hockey, whether 382 00:15:43,925 --> 00:15:47,525 that's gym gymnastics, whether that's, uh, football, 383 00:15:47,785 --> 00:15:49,685 you just kind of gotta know what's the worst thing 384 00:15:49,685 --> 00:15:51,885 that can happen and kind of have a game plan as far 385 00:15:51,945 --> 00:15:53,125 as far as what you're gonna do. 386 00:15:53,465 --> 00:15:55,085 Now you can have all the best intentions, 387 00:15:55,105 --> 00:15:58,245 all the best training, and still have some unfortunate 388 00:15:58,245 --> 00:15:59,605 circumstances like that one. 389 00:15:59,945 --> 00:16:03,645 But doing things like making sure your a ED works prior 390 00:16:03,645 --> 00:16:06,245 to every game, you know, checking that, making sure 391 00:16:06,245 --> 00:16:08,205 that it's out and, and accessible. 392 00:16:08,465 --> 00:16:11,285 So if you have any of the events like we saw 393 00:16:11,285 --> 00:16:14,085 with DeMar Hamlin, you can respond appropriately 394 00:16:14,505 --> 00:16:15,885 and potentially save a life. 395 00:16:16,235 --> 00:16:17,405 Finally, the one 396 00:16:17,405 --> 00:16:19,405 of the last things I'd say is put your egos in check, 397 00:16:19,405 --> 00:16:20,925 because at the elite level, 398 00:16:21,255 --> 00:16:24,445 these folks are receiving usually five 399 00:16:24,445 --> 00:16:25,685 or six opinions, right? 400 00:16:25,785 --> 00:16:27,365 You may be one of a host 401 00:16:27,365 --> 00:16:28,845 of opinions that people are getting. 402 00:16:29,265 --> 00:16:31,485 Be honest with your athletes. Gain their trust. 403 00:16:31,815 --> 00:16:34,165 Don't be upset if they're getting multiple opinions from 404 00:16:34,165 --> 00:16:36,645 other specialists, providers, anywhere else. 405 00:16:37,145 --> 00:16:41,405 Um, and, and don't be expected to be the team doc in the NFL 406 00:16:41,405 --> 00:16:44,805 or MLS or right out of the gates or, or Division one school. 407 00:16:45,155 --> 00:16:47,205 Just put in your time, grow your reputation 408 00:16:47,425 --> 00:16:48,965 and do what's best for athletes. 409 00:16:49,105 --> 00:16:50,845 And people notice, right? 410 00:16:50,945 --> 00:16:53,805 So, um, athletes talk, coaches talk and, and, 411 00:16:53,865 --> 00:16:56,565 and that, that's a great way to just do your job 412 00:16:56,865 --> 00:16:57,965 and good things will happen. 413 00:16:59,885 --> 00:17:01,325 - I love it. Well, thank you so much 414 00:17:01,425 --> 00:17:03,205 for joining me on the podcast today. 415 00:17:03,205 --> 00:17:05,925 This has been really a fun and fascinating conversation, 416 00:17:06,065 --> 00:17:06,885 and I look forward to 417 00:17:06,885 --> 00:17:08,005 connecting with you again in the future. 418 00:17:09,005 --> 00:17:10,145 - Thanks so much for your time. 419 00:17:10,225 --> 00:17:11,345 I appreciate the opportunity. 420 00:17:13,855 --> 00:17:16,265 - It's so important for leaders at the top of organizations 421 00:17:16,265 --> 00:17:18,785 to keep learning, stay sharp, grow their networks, 422 00:17:19,255 --> 00:17:21,825 help our audience better do this in a more simplified, 423 00:17:21,825 --> 00:17:23,505 personalized, and meaningful way. 424 00:17:24,065 --> 00:17:26,545 Becker's Healthcare has launched my BHC, 425 00:17:27,015 --> 00:17:29,025 it's your trusted Becker's healthcare experience 426 00:17:29,025 --> 00:17:31,225 and more with content, connections, events, 427 00:17:31,245 --> 00:17:32,265 and learning opportunities. 428 00:17:32,975 --> 00:17:34,065 Join the community free 429 00:17:34,065 --> 00:17:38,865 of charge@www.my dot becker's hospital review.com 430 00:17:38,925 --> 00:17:39,825 and we'll see you there.