1
00:00:04,780 --> 00:00:06,270
This is the Becker's Healthcare Podcast,

2
00:00:06,340 --> 00:00:07,950
created by the team of
Becker's Healthcare,

3
00:00:08,110 --> 00:00:11,150
a multimedia company devoted to
the people who power us healthcare.

4
00:00:11,460 --> 00:00:15,430
Four new 15 minute episodes are released
daily containing industry news analysis

5
00:00:15,430 --> 00:00:16,230
and thought leadership.

6
00:00:16,230 --> 00:00:20,270
From powerful healthcare decision makers
Support our show by leaving it a five

7
00:00:20,270 --> 00:00:23,550
star rating and review on Apple
Podcast or other platforms you use.

8
00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:26,790
It's a chance to tell us what you like
about the show and act on your feedback.

9
00:00:26,790 --> 00:00:28,750
Thanks for listening.
Now here's the episode.

10
00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:34,390
This is Laura Dedo with the
Becker's Healthcare Podcast.

11
00:00:35,050 --> 00:00:37,750
I'm thrilled today to be
joined by Dr. Michael Wiener,

12
00:00:37,830 --> 00:00:40,870
chief Medical officer of M
S U Healthcare. Dr. Weiner,

13
00:00:40,870 --> 00:00:42,390
it's a pleasure to have
you on the podcast today.

14
00:00:43,190 --> 00:00:44,060
Thank you for having.

15
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,520
Me. Now, I know we've
got a lot to talk about.

16
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,000
There's so much happening right now in
healthcare and just really so much big

17
00:00:51,060 --> 00:00:52,280
trends and innovations,

18
00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:54,760
and so I'm excited to learn more about
what you're doing in M S U Health.

19
00:00:54,860 --> 00:00:57,240
But before we dive into
the broader questions,

20
00:00:57,260 --> 00:00:59,440
can you tell us a little bit more
about yourself and your background?

21
00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:01,240
Sure. Michael Wiener,

22
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,360
I am a board certified practicing
internal medicine physician.

23
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,960
I am proud to have served 30 years
in the US Navy as a flight surgeon,

24
00:01:11,580 --> 00:01:15,920
as a dive medical officer,
and as a, uh, space shuttle,

25
00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:19,840
landing and takeoff physician
for nasa. Um, and along the way,

26
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,360
I spent some time in corporate
America as IBM's lead for healthcare

27
00:01:24,980 --> 00:01:25,813
and, uh,

28
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,480
recently with a global health and
human services company called Maximus.

29
00:01:31,070 --> 00:01:32,930
That's amazing. And, and
definitely, you know,

30
00:01:32,990 --> 00:01:36,490
to have all those experiences folded
into one and now be, you know,

31
00:01:36,490 --> 00:01:39,530
the Chief medical officer at M S
U Health, I can imagine, you know,

32
00:01:39,630 --> 00:01:41,450
the skills that you learned, um, you know,

33
00:01:41,750 --> 00:01:45,050
in the military as well as with I B M
Health can bring a unique perspective to

34
00:01:45,050 --> 00:01:45,883
what you're doing today.

35
00:01:47,340 --> 00:01:51,180
I feel honored to be able to share all
that I learned in my last 30 years with

36
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,780
the, uh, great team at Michigan State.

37
00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:57,520
Fantastic. Well, you know,
getting right into it,

38
00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,120
what are some of your
top priorities right now?

39
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,200
What's top of mind for you and you really
feel like you're spending most of your

40
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,033
time on?

41
00:02:03,230 --> 00:02:04,063
Yeah. This,

42
00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:08,280
this year is our relentless
pursuit of quality,

43
00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:13,000
um, quality care, quality,
patient experience,

44
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,760
and quality in preparation
for value-based care, right?

45
00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:20,280
We are, we're jumping on
with the rest of the company.

46
00:02:20,490 --> 00:02:23,080
We've gotta get to value-based
care, but to get there,

47
00:02:23,420 --> 00:02:27,840
we need to understand where we are
now, where we need to go, what we cost,

48
00:02:28,140 --> 00:02:31,920
and what is being asked
of our insurers to us.

49
00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:35,490
Yeah, I think that's such a
great point. And, you know,

50
00:02:36,090 --> 00:02:38,530
starting off with quality is
a, a great place to be. And,

51
00:02:38,530 --> 00:02:40,890
and if you can show that
and prove that, you know,

52
00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:44,050
it makes all the difference in the world
when you're looking at and leading a

53
00:02:44,050 --> 00:02:47,570
medical team that's got more information
and more data than ever on quality.

54
00:02:48,190 --> 00:02:49,290
How do you manage that?

55
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,170
What do you really see as being important
in that transition of going from just,

56
00:02:53,190 --> 00:02:54,890
Hey, I'm seeing patients, you know, I'm,

57
00:02:54,910 --> 00:02:58,650
I'm doing the best I can on a qualitative
aspect, and then getting into,

58
00:02:58,710 --> 00:03:01,520
we actually have numbers and
information, um, that, you know,

59
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,440
really show what's going well
and we need to, you know,

60
00:03:04,540 --> 00:03:05,920
use them to the best of our ability.

61
00:03:06,490 --> 00:03:10,120
Laura, I'm usually a grouper, but
for that I'm gonna be a separator.

62
00:03:10,130 --> 00:03:13,640
We're gonna pull those apart. So on
the first side of it is, you know,

63
00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:16,960
what do you do with all of
the data? And, you know,

64
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,360
I think what we found quickly as we
made a turn towards being a data-driven

65
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,080
organization in pursuit,
in relentless pursuit,

66
00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:27,360
pursuit of quality is, you know,

67
00:03:27,420 --> 00:03:31,520
the data isn't as easy to find
as you think it would be, right?

68
00:03:31,540 --> 00:03:35,280
We think you just click a button and it
comes out of your and electronic health

69
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,120
record and there's your data and,
and then just show it to everybody.

70
00:03:38,470 --> 00:03:39,960
It's not quite that simple.

71
00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:43,360
So there's a little work that needs to
be done in curating the data and then

72
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,040
presenting the data up in a
easy to understand, um, format.

73
00:03:48,620 --> 00:03:51,920
So the, there's the data and you know,
in our journey right now, you know,

74
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:52,620
there's a,

75
00:03:52,620 --> 00:03:57,600
the journey with data is we
currently are offering up dashboards

76
00:03:57,740 --> 00:04:02,000
to our organization, right? Nothing
complex here, just here's the data,

77
00:04:02,180 --> 00:04:06,400
here's where we were in the past 90
days, in the past 30 days, and you know,

78
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,360
let's get a vibe on that,

79
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,840
let's get a feel on that so we can
all move forward in pursuit of quality

80
00:04:12,030 --> 00:04:15,280
metrics. But really where
we want to be is, you know,

81
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,240
a self-service organization, we want
people to press a button on their desktop,

82
00:04:19,430 --> 00:04:21,040
know what their data scores are,

83
00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:26,320
and ultimately to be able to predict
what those data scores will be

84
00:04:26,690 --> 00:04:31,360
under their current practice. So, you
know, we want to get to predictive, uh,

85
00:04:31,430 --> 00:04:34,640
data as much as anybody else. And,
you know, I'll leave it there.

86
00:04:35,070 --> 00:04:38,760
I'll leave it there. So we currently
have dashboard, our future is prediction,

87
00:04:39,180 --> 00:04:42,280
and then the other part
of this discussion is,

88
00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:46,320
so how do you improve your data? How
do you improve your quality? Excuse me.

89
00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:48,880
And the answer is, boy,

90
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,240
this is where healthcare really becomes
a collaborative team effort, right? So,

91
00:04:53,460 --> 00:04:57,080
you know, we all wanna just turn to
the doctor, the provider and say, like,

92
00:04:57,100 --> 00:05:00,680
you need to do better at, at
your quality. And, you know, I,

93
00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:04,400
I would offer the last 10
years have been, it's been,

94
00:05:04,510 --> 00:05:08,920
it's been a blood fest for the physicians.
It's been a slug, it's been a slog.

95
00:05:09,070 --> 00:05:12,200
It's been a hard decade
to be a provider, right?

96
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,640
Just more and more keeps
getting thrown on the providers.

97
00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:19,560
So our goal is to begin to alleviate
some of that suffering that

98
00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,800
our providers nationwide
are facing and, you know,

99
00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:26,000
causing unprecedented burnout, right?

100
00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:30,360
We all thought we had burnout before
covid, covid, you know, drove many over,

101
00:05:30,470 --> 00:05:33,240
over the edge. And, you know,
we need providers, right?

102
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,840
We have an aging population, we
have an unhealthy population,

103
00:05:36,140 --> 00:05:40,200
so we can't lose that many doctors and
nurses <laugh> along the way, right?

104
00:05:40,260 --> 00:05:44,560
So we have to figure out a way to
collaborate to make it a more pleasant

105
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,000
experience. So I mentioned earlier,
you know, one of our initiatives is,

106
00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:49,920
is patient experience,

107
00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:53,520
but I wanna make sure as a chief
medical officer that there is a provider

108
00:05:53,530 --> 00:05:55,320
experience that's improved as well.

109
00:05:55,820 --> 00:06:00,720
And some of that is just listening
to the providers in what is

110
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,240
rubbing them wrong, right? So some of
it is, I just need some help, right?

111
00:06:05,260 --> 00:06:10,080
So now we put out these new quality
programs on them and you know,

112
00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,920
the help that we're offering is we
have to get case management involved.

113
00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:17,800
We have to start to push
down things that can be done

114
00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:21,040
by someone else other
than the provider, right?

115
00:06:21,140 --> 00:06:23,880
Let other folks operate at the
top of their license. Again,

116
00:06:23,950 --> 00:06:28,240
nothing groundbreaking here. Just needs
to be operationalized in our day-to-day,

117
00:06:28,700 --> 00:06:30,640
um, settings. So, you know,

118
00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:35,440
can a nurse do an annual
wellness visit for Medicare? Yes.

119
00:06:35,690 --> 00:06:39,760
Right? Yes. So who's
responsible for that? Um,

120
00:06:40,150 --> 00:06:44,440
that quality dataset, the provider,
that patient falls under their name,

121
00:06:44,700 --> 00:06:49,520
but we can alleviate that responsibility
by putting a talented nurse

122
00:06:49,580 --> 00:06:54,440
in into that program and allowing
them to care for that patient

123
00:06:54,530 --> 00:06:58,480
along the, along their journey
as well. So, team effort, um,

124
00:06:59,030 --> 00:07:03,200
support and understanding the processes
and understanding the data sets that

125
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,960
we're asking for or, or that are
being asked for and supporting them.

126
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,320
I love that. I think it, it is so helpful,
as you mentioned, just keep all of,

127
00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:12,690
um,

128
00:07:12,690 --> 00:07:17,200
those aspects of the teams and healthcare
front and center as you're making a

129
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,840
transition in any way, shape, or form.
Now, when you look at M S U healthcare,

130
00:07:22,130 --> 00:07:25,960
where do you see that EV organization
evolving over the next two to three years?

131
00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:30,520
How, um, are you looking to the future
and where do you see growth coming?

132
00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:35,950
So at its core, Michigan State University,

133
00:07:36,330 --> 00:07:41,110
our goal is to become the premier
place to be seen for healthcare

134
00:07:41,330 --> 00:07:42,990
in the state of Michigan.
Right? Let's just,

135
00:07:42,990 --> 00:07:46,950
we'll start with the simple vision and
you know, how will we do that? Well,

136
00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:49,030
we will do that with partnerships.

137
00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:54,870
We partner with many hospitals around
the state. Um, we'll continue to do so,

138
00:07:55,010 --> 00:07:59,400
and we will also create that through
expansion of our own services.

139
00:08:00,060 --> 00:08:04,760
We have, we are about to go live with
our own lab in the state of Michigan. Um,

140
00:08:05,180 --> 00:08:10,040
we have started some unique remote
telemedicine programs across the state of

141
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,360
Michigan, tele telemedicine for
physical therapy, telemedicine,

142
00:08:14,420 --> 00:08:18,560
and remote monitoring for blood
pressure and for diabetes. So again,

143
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,000
I think bringing in
technology and, you know,

144
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,360
ensuring that we deliver
quality care with a,

145
00:08:25,660 --> 00:08:30,240
an incredible experience for our
patients of ease and convenience and

146
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,880
support and compassion and love,

147
00:08:32,230 --> 00:08:35,920
will help us become the premier provider
of care in the state of Michigan.

148
00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:39,060
Um, that thank you so much for,

149
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,580
for going through all those different
areas that will make a big difference.

150
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,100
And, you know, I know the healthcare
delivery is evolving and changing too.

151
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,020
So how do you see some different
technologies coming in with virtual care,

152
00:08:50,020 --> 00:08:52,420
telehealth, remote patient
monitoring, you know,

153
00:08:52,530 --> 00:08:54,860
what place do they have in
your, your overall strategy?

154
00:08:55,780 --> 00:08:56,613
So I, you know,

155
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,080
I think if one thing has happened
from post covid is people

156
00:09:01,460 --> 00:09:06,020
no longer wanna wear pants,
they don't wanna park anymore,

157
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,700
and they don't have any patients to wait
to see a provider, right? So I think,

158
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,500
you know, with virtual care,
we can support patients,

159
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,040
patients, their, uh, theirs, their,

160
00:09:18,210 --> 00:09:23,040
their interest in not having
the three Ps in their life

161
00:09:23,570 --> 00:09:26,200
pants when they go to see
their provider parking,

162
00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:29,480
and then the patients to
wait for, um, a provider.

163
00:09:29,620 --> 00:09:34,320
So I think telemedicine is
going to be at the core of care.

164
00:09:34,580 --> 00:09:37,200
And, you know, the beauty
of it, it allows us in,

165
00:09:37,260 --> 00:09:40,520
in a small community of East
Lansing to reach out to the rest,

166
00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:41,640
the rest of the state.

167
00:09:43,390 --> 00:09:46,330
Got it. And that makes a lot
of sense. And, and you know, I,

168
00:09:46,430 --> 00:09:47,850
I'm wondering too before, and I don't.

169
00:09:47,850 --> 00:09:50,130
Wanna wear pants when I see
patients either, right? Be clear.

170
00:09:50,970 --> 00:09:54,650
<Laugh> definitely, definitely makes life
a lot easier no matter what. <laugh>.

171
00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:58,010
Um, before we wrap up
our conversation here,

172
00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:01,050
I was wondering if you could talk through
what is one change you and your team

173
00:10:01,110 --> 00:10:03,770
has made that has yielded great
results in the last year or two?

174
00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:08,890
So I'm gonna focus on
provider burnout, right? Uh,

175
00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:13,610
unprecedented numbers over the last
year and over the last three years. So,

176
00:10:13,950 --> 00:10:17,050
you know, we gotta, once again, if you're
gonna be a data-driven organization,

177
00:10:17,070 --> 00:10:18,970
what's the data behind that? So,

178
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,130
just recently published data was
the number one cause of burnout,

179
00:10:23,850 --> 00:10:27,830
and it stayed number one for many years.
So, you know, you gotta give it a, um,

180
00:10:28,490 --> 00:10:31,660
the ability to, um, stay at the top.

181
00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:35,380
And that is the use of the electronic
health record, right? So for,

182
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:37,740
for all that we've done and,

183
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,100
and all that we've mandated
with electronic health records,

184
00:10:40,370 --> 00:10:44,540
it's still creating great angst
among our providers. So we,

185
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:46,233
um, with,

186
00:10:46,330 --> 00:10:50,060
with our clinical community and with a
very talented chief medical information

187
00:10:50,060 --> 00:10:54,620
officer, are working to solve the, um,

188
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,860
the pain and suffering that comes
with an electronic health record,

189
00:10:57,860 --> 00:10:59,460
doesn't matter which
electronic health record,

190
00:10:59,530 --> 00:11:03,260
just with an electronic health record.
And we're doing that through, again,

191
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:04,460
not cutting edge,

192
00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:09,380
just back to the basics optimization
of the use of that electronic health

193
00:11:09,380 --> 00:11:12,340
record. And that's elbow
to elbow, hip to hip,

194
00:11:12,660 --> 00:11:17,340
shoulder to shoulder training on how
to use the electronic health record

195
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,900
in the most efficient manner. Now,
it may be the addition of, um,

196
00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:26,580
voice recognition and maybe the
addition of complex templates,

197
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,540
um, that, you know, will,

198
00:11:28,610 --> 00:11:31,860
will do all of your documentation
with the click of a button,

199
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,780
or it may be the use of ambient, um,

200
00:11:36,650 --> 00:11:41,140
ambient scribes and, you
know, advanced AI to put,

201
00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:43,700
to put that entire, uh,

202
00:11:43,890 --> 00:11:48,340
physician patient experience into the
record, right? We're trying all of them,

203
00:11:48,530 --> 00:11:52,780
this is more of a shotgun approach on
our behalf to get all of these things

204
00:11:52,780 --> 00:11:57,560
done, see which ones bring the greatest
joy to providers. And I'll just,

205
00:11:57,980 --> 00:12:00,080
uh, I I, I always have to say, you know,

206
00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:04,490
you think of what goes into becoming
a provider in America today, right?

207
00:12:04,510 --> 00:12:08,250
It is not a quick six week course,
right? It is four years of college,

208
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:11,810
four years of medical school, four
years of residency, right? Like,

209
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,450
it's a good 12 years dedicated to caring
for someone else, right? It's really,

210
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:17,040
it's a mission.

211
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,370
It's a calling that a human being has
for o to care for other human beings.

212
00:12:22,070 --> 00:12:26,810
And then, you know, we make it an
unenjoyable experience for them, right?

213
00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:27,970
And we wanna get,

214
00:12:27,970 --> 00:12:32,210
we wanna bring the joy
back to the care of our

215
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,210
community, right? So for us, it's really
the community of, um, east Lansing,

216
00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:41,970
Lansing, and the state of Michigan.
So we're gonna keep wedging away, um,

217
00:12:43,450 --> 00:12:47,790
at the things that are not supporting,
bringing joy to our providers.

218
00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:51,550
We know that in that block
of granite, you know,

219
00:12:51,550 --> 00:12:55,270
there is an angel to be released of
joy for our providers, and we're gonna,

220
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,070
we're gonna chip away
until we get to that.

221
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,170
Fantastic. Well, Dr. Winer,

222
00:13:00,170 --> 00:13:02,090
thank you so much for joining
us on the podcast today.

223
00:13:02,090 --> 00:13:03,930
This has been such a fun and
interesting conversation.

224
00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:07,210
I love your passion for healthcare,
healthcare providers, physicians,

225
00:13:07,210 --> 00:13:08,290
and the clinical teams.

226
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:13,050
And I look forward to seeing you in person
at our annual meeting next April. Um,

227
00:13:13,050 --> 00:13:16,050
it'll be great to have you, uh, speak
there and excited for your session.

228
00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:18,490
Thank you, Laura. Look
forward to seeing you soon.

229
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,170
It's so important for leaders at the
top of organizations to keep learning,

230
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,250
stay sharp, grow their networks,

231
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,850
help our audience better do this
in a more simplified, personalized,

232
00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:35,810
and meaningful way. Becker's
Healthcare has launched my bhc,

233
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,290
it's your trusted Becker's healthcare
experience and more with content,

234
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,370
connections, events, and
learning opportunities.

235
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,890
Join the community free of
charge@www.my dot becker's

236
00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:49,130
hospital review.com,
and we'll see you there.