1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:06,330 This is the Becker's Healthcare Podcast, 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,130 created by the team of Becker's Healthcare, 3 00:00:08,170 --> 00:00:11,370 a multimedia company devoted to the people who power us healthcare. 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,490 Four new 15 minute episodes are released daily containing industry news analysis 5 00:00:15,490 --> 00:00:17,530 and thought leadership from power powerful healthcare. 6 00:00:17,690 --> 00:00:21,530 Decision makers support our show by leaving at a five star rating and review on 7 00:00:21,530 --> 00:00:23,650 Apple podcasts or other platforms you use. 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,850 It's a chance to tell us what you like about the show and act on your feedback. 9 00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:28,770 Thanks for listening. Now, here's the episode. 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,970 This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. 11 00:00:35,550 --> 00:00:37,450 I'm thrilled today to be joined by Erin Einstein, 12 00:00:37,620 --> 00:00:41,250 chief Medical Officer at notable and former Vice President of Digital Health at 13 00:00:41,290 --> 00:00:44,370 U C S F Health. Erin, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. 14 00:00:46,090 --> 00:00:47,640 Great to be with you, Laura. Thank you. 15 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,460 Now, I know we have a lot to talk about. 16 00:00:50,460 --> 00:00:52,740 There's so much happening in the digital health space and, 17 00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:53,900 and things are really moving quickly. 18 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,740 So I'm looking forward to our conversation. But before we dive into the, 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:58,860 the broader discussion, 20 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,060 can you tell me a little bit more about yourself and your background? 21 00:01:02,950 --> 00:01:07,400 Yeah, of course. So, um, I, I like to joke that I am, 22 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,233 what an American, 23 00:01:08,350 --> 00:01:12,400 what happens when an American Studies major goes to medical school. Uh, 24 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,400 that's a, uh, a, a ripoff of Bob Walker, who's, who's made a similar joke for, 25 00:01:16,420 --> 00:01:20,480 for many years. But, uh, uh, I've been, uh, 26 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,400 a clinical informaticist and a practicing endocrinologist for, for many years. 27 00:01:25,540 --> 00:01:29,240 Uh, was vice president of Digital health at U C S F Health most recently. 28 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:31,560 And as of, uh, this month, uh, 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,280 have made the move to be Chief Medical Officer at Notable. Um, 30 00:01:36,340 --> 00:01:40,480 and so, you know, across my career, I've just really been, 31 00:01:41,820 --> 00:01:44,800 uh, deeply moved by interdisciplinary learning, 32 00:01:45,060 --> 00:01:50,000 by trying to connect dots across business, technology, healthcare, uh, science, 33 00:01:50,150 --> 00:01:53,480 sociology. And so, um, you know, 34 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,840 the field of informatics became very interesting to me because as a practicing 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,760 physician, you get to, uh, have a positive impact one patient at a time. 36 00:02:03,580 --> 00:02:06,960 Um, when you work in informatics, you can really move, uh, 37 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,760 you can really have impacts at a much broader, uh, 38 00:02:09,890 --> 00:02:14,720 scale a across many more people. And so I found that, uh, really exciting, uh, 39 00:02:14,740 --> 00:02:19,280 as I started my career. So, um, over the years, um, 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,960 helped lead our ehr, uh, 41 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,000 implementation and optimization at U C S F, uh, 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,400 was co-founder of a, 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,360 a nonprofit organization called Tidepool that builds software 44 00:02:32,460 --> 00:02:35,880 for people with diabetes. Um, and over the past 10 years, 45 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:39,920 really helped build our digital health programs at U C S F, 46 00:02:40,860 --> 00:02:44,880 um, in precision digital marketing, uh, patient communications, 47 00:02:44,990 --> 00:02:49,440 patient access and scheduling, uh, referrals, intake, 48 00:02:50,020 --> 00:02:53,560 uh, deploying AI capabilities at U C S F 49 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,800 building programs in, in telehealth and virtual care, uh, 50 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,020 and really helping drive digital transformation at U C S F. 51 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,820 So moving more towards, uh, a product mindset, uh, 52 00:03:05,820 --> 00:03:10,780 incorporating and building a human-centered design practice, uh, agile, uh, 53 00:03:10,780 --> 00:03:13,940 methodology, uh, use of embedded analytics, uh, 54 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,020 and really trying to help U C S F become a more digital organization, um, 55 00:03:19,090 --> 00:03:22,620 fortunate to still have a clinical practice in endocrinology where, 56 00:03:22,620 --> 00:03:27,100 where I focus on diabetes care, uh, and really love doing that, um, 57 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:30,180 and have also been really fortunate to be engaged, uh, 58 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,460 in federal health IT policy. So, uh, 59 00:03:33,700 --> 00:03:35,580 I serve on the federal high tech, 60 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,700 the health Information Technology advisory committee, uh, 61 00:03:39,700 --> 00:03:44,580 and really passionate about advancing federal policy related 62 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,500 to, uh, patient data access, interoperability, APIs, uh, and, 63 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:54,180 and advancing virtual care capabilities across the country. Um, 64 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,780 and then, you know, as I mentioned, 65 00:03:56,100 --> 00:04:00,340 recently took this role as Chief medical Officer at notable, uh, and, 66 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,940 and very excited about, uh, having the opportunity to, 67 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,940 to really continue my passion for removing inefficiencies from the 68 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,660 system. Um, you know, 69 00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:15,420 thinking about all of the administrative burden that gets in the way of, 70 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,580 of providing great care to patients, uh, 71 00:04:18,580 --> 00:04:20,740 and how can we use technology and, 72 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,940 and modern capabilities to remove those administrative burdens and make 73 00:04:25,940 --> 00:04:30,260 the patient experience, uh, much better, uh, than it has been, uh, 74 00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:31,093 over the past years. 75 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:34,240 That's amazing to hear. 76 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:37,720 And what a great journey for your career in terms of starting off as a clinician 77 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,880 and obviously making a huge impact on the patients that you're serving, 78 00:04:41,060 --> 00:04:45,120 but then broadening that out, um, as an informaticist and, and doing a ton to, 79 00:04:45,220 --> 00:04:47,800 uh, make the healthcare system more efficient and, and, 80 00:04:47,820 --> 00:04:51,360 and better from the technology side and touching so many more lives. And then, 81 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:54,080 you know, I, I know in the past few years, as you were talking about, 82 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,560 digital transformation has been such a huge undertaking, uh, 83 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,080 for so many health systems as well as U C F S health. And, 84 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:05,040 and from your perspective, when you're looking at, um, you know, 85 00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:08,440 some of the opportunities and headwinds, what do you have your eye on right now? 86 00:05:08,670 --> 00:05:11,680 What do you really see as being spaces that, um, 87 00:05:11,910 --> 00:05:16,160 have a lot of open opportunity, but also, um, you know, 88 00:05:16,460 --> 00:05:17,560 things that are, 89 00:05:18,250 --> 00:05:21,880 could be potential roadblocks or challenges for digital transformation in the 90 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:22,713 healthcare space? 91 00:05:24,690 --> 00:05:28,500 Yeah, I think there, there's sort of the, the macro, um, 92 00:05:29,290 --> 00:05:31,990 trends that have been, you know, going on for the last 10, 93 00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:34,390 15 years in healthcare, and then the, 94 00:05:34,390 --> 00:05:37,950 the things that have really accelerated in the past year or two. Uh, 95 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:39,390 when we think about the headwinds, 96 00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:44,470 I I think the broader trend is that unlike other 97 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,870 industries where technology has really transformed the 98 00:05:49,590 --> 00:05:53,470 consumer experience, uh, has driven, uh, a lot of efficiency, 99 00:05:53,650 --> 00:05:57,940 has maybe lowered costs, those things haven't happened yet in healthcare. 100 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,100 And as an industry, we largely, you know, 101 00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:05,500 we've moved from paper to, uh, digital records, 102 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:07,620 but we haven't really been, 103 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,100 we haven't really leveraged technology to make the consumer experience better, 104 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:17,090 to lower cost, to improve access, um, um, and, 105 00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:21,010 and to, to really tackle some of the big challenges that we, uh, 106 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,210 face in the healthcare system. And, 107 00:06:24,270 --> 00:06:27,850 and we're seeing those challenges get worse these past few years, 108 00:06:27,850 --> 00:06:30,570 really exacerbated by the pandemic. So, you know, 109 00:06:30,570 --> 00:06:35,050 burnout among our providers and our nurses and people leaving the workforce, 110 00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:39,170 uh, rising cost of, of labor, uh, 111 00:06:39,190 --> 00:06:42,610 for hospitals and health systems and facing labor shortages, 112 00:06:42,710 --> 00:06:47,250 unable to hire enough staff to, uh, 113 00:06:47,390 --> 00:06:52,090 to staff hospitals, with nurses, to staff clinics, with, uh, clinic staff. 114 00:06:52,990 --> 00:06:55,970 Um, worsening frustrations among patients with, 115 00:06:55,970 --> 00:07:00,850 with challenges in access to care, long wait times for care, uh, 116 00:07:01,170 --> 00:07:05,530 friction and a subpar, uh, experience. And at the end of the day, you know, the, 117 00:07:05,530 --> 00:07:09,690 these headwinds on health systems, the impact these have on, 118 00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:14,210 on all of us as, as people and patients and parents, um, 119 00:07:14,670 --> 00:07:17,650 you know, it's getting harder for people to afford care. 120 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,970 It's getting harder for people to access care. 121 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:24,530 We're seeing widening health disparities. And so I think the, 122 00:07:24,550 --> 00:07:27,810 the real opportunity now over the coming years 123 00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:34,370 is to actually leverage technology to do the things 124 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,730 that we've seen technology do in other industries. Um, 125 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:42,730 so a few examples of what I mean by that. So, you know, 126 00:07:42,730 --> 00:07:47,450 areas where I've been focused, um, improving the front door for patients. So, 127 00:07:47,470 --> 00:07:51,850 you know, if you have a refer, you get a new diagnosis of, you know, 128 00:07:52,290 --> 00:07:56,330 diabetes or, uh, inflammatory bowel disease or cancer, 129 00:07:56,430 --> 00:08:01,330 and you get a referral to see a specialist, there are a million hurdles, 130 00:08:01,790 --> 00:08:05,170 uh, standing in your way between, you know, 131 00:08:05,170 --> 00:08:08,850 wanting to see a specialist and getting through to that appointment and getting 132 00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:13,850 the care that you need. And so, how do we use technology to, uh, 133 00:08:14,170 --> 00:08:18,730 automate, streamline, reduce friction, reduce inefficiencies from that process, 134 00:08:19,030 --> 00:08:23,250 all the way from referrals to the, to authorize authorizations, 135 00:08:23,470 --> 00:08:27,530 to scheduling, um, to everybody's, uh, you know, 136 00:08:27,870 --> 00:08:30,930 people still dread the clipboard, uh, for, 137 00:08:30,990 --> 00:08:34,290 for intake and registration with the health system, but it, 138 00:08:34,310 --> 00:08:36,250 it should be much easier to get from, 139 00:08:36,410 --> 00:08:40,090 I want to see a new doctor for this new condition I have, um, 140 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:42,330 to actually seeing your doctor. 141 00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:46,650 And so how do we use technology to eliminate all of the friction, uh, 142 00:08:46,650 --> 00:08:51,170 that's in the way there. And, and some of that is, uh, 143 00:08:51,490 --> 00:08:53,330 friction in the, in the patient experience, 144 00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:55,980 and a lot of it is really what's under the surface. 145 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,340 The operations in health systems, you know, 146 00:08:59,350 --> 00:09:04,260 still faxing documents around, uh, lots of inefficiencies in, 147 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,540 uh, workflows that require a lot of clinic staff to, you know, 148 00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:11,460 type information in or, or make, uh, 149 00:09:11,460 --> 00:09:15,580 phone call outreach and a lot of opportunities for, uh, 150 00:09:15,580 --> 00:09:20,220 technology and automation there. Um, there's similarly, 151 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,700 you know, once people are engaged with a, with a physician, 152 00:09:24,050 --> 00:09:27,060 lots of opportunities for ongoing, uh, 153 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:30,900 engagement through the patient's care experience. Um, you know, again, 154 00:09:31,460 --> 00:09:35,940 thinking about someone with diabetes or Crohn's disease or cancer, you know, 155 00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:39,540 you see your doctor, uh, they give you, uh, 156 00:09:40,410 --> 00:09:44,060 some recommendations for follow up items, you know, pick up a new prescription, 157 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,700 go to the lab, um, and that's kind of scribbled on a piece of paper, 158 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,660 or it's in the electronic health record, but it's kind of manual. 159 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,420 And so how do we help support people in getting those things done, 160 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,220 in scheduling those next steps in, 161 00:09:59,380 --> 00:10:03,180 checking in with them to make sure they were able to get the medication from the 162 00:10:03,460 --> 00:10:04,980 pharmacy and in, uh, 163 00:10:05,260 --> 00:10:08,220 checking in with them a week later to see if they have any side effects from 164 00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:10,980 that new medication. Again, you know, 165 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,100 the information is probably in a computer now, 166 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,340 but it's essentially on a piece of paper in a computer, 167 00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:22,220 because our systems are not supporting patients in, 168 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:25,660 uh, in educating them in, in supporting them, 169 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:29,740 in taking those next steps in their care. Um, 170 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,180 and then I think the last piece is, you know, if you look broadly, uh, 171 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:37,620 across digital and healthcare, you know, 172 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:40,980 people are appropriately concerned that technology, uh, 173 00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:45,180 could worsen disparities. We obviously have huge challenges with, 174 00:10:45,180 --> 00:10:50,140 with health disparities, uh, in this country. The way I look at it is, I, 175 00:10:50,260 --> 00:10:54,340 I think technology actually has the opportunity to reduce disparities because 176 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,060 by giving everyone the exact same experience that isn't tailored to 177 00:11:00,060 --> 00:11:03,060 people's individual needs, um, 178 00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:07,220 which is the way things kind of are today, um, 179 00:11:08,540 --> 00:11:11,740 I think that's part of what may worsen disparities, 180 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,100 but we can use technology to actually understand people's individual needs. 181 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,700 You know, what language do you speak? What's your education, uh, level, 182 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,700 um, what's your family situation? At what hours of the day, uh, 183 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,220 is best to communicate with you, is that morning or evening? 184 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,260 And really understand p people's personal preferences and, and needs, uh, 185 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,740 and tailor our outreach and our, 186 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,060 our engagement with them to their individual needs. I think that has, uh, 187 00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:46,260 a significant opportunity to personalize and, and create more, 188 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,180 uh, equity, uh, and, and reduce disparities. 189 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,090 So, uh, i, I think there's, you know, lots of, 190 00:11:55,740 --> 00:12:00,630 clearly lots of headwinds, um, that we're facing as an industry. 191 00:12:01,610 --> 00:12:05,430 Um, but, uh, lots of opportunities facing us to, um, 192 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:09,310 to improve th those outcomes that we really care about. 193 00:12:10,690 --> 00:12:12,070 That's such a great point, Erin, 194 00:12:12,170 --> 00:12:16,070 in thinking through all the different ways that technology could make a 195 00:12:16,070 --> 00:12:20,030 difference for the healthcare system operationally as well as patient outcomes 196 00:12:20,090 --> 00:12:22,590 and personalizing medicine in more, 197 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:26,590 more ways that could close some of those health disparity gaps. And, you know, 198 00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:27,670 from your perspective, 199 00:12:27,810 --> 00:12:31,430 you've been in the field for a long time and really seeing how technology is 200 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:34,390 integrating in healthcare and some of the unique challenges, um, 201 00:12:34,390 --> 00:12:36,310 with that as well. So, you know, 202 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:39,270 what does growth look like in order to meet these, 203 00:12:39,270 --> 00:12:42,750 this reality that you're talking about in terms of integrating technology that 204 00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:47,270 they have in so many other industries to, um, improve the patient experience, 205 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:49,390 to cut costs, to become more efficient? 206 00:12:49,930 --> 00:12:54,230 How do you grow as an organization and really add value with the technology 207 00:12:54,330 --> 00:12:55,163 that's available? 208 00:12:58,270 --> 00:13:02,490 So I, I think sometimes it's, it's counterintuitive because of what, 209 00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:05,930 uh, what gets the headlines. So I think 210 00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:11,290 there are a lot of exciting ideas for how, 211 00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:16,090 um, healthcare can change dramatically, you know, 212 00:13:16,090 --> 00:13:19,770 where there can be disruption, where we can completely, uh, 213 00:13:19,790 --> 00:13:24,690 change care models or disrupt, uh, the way things work today. 214 00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:29,170 And, and I think those are very exciting and very important, uh, at, 215 00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:30,170 at the same time, 216 00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:36,330 you take a very pragmatic look at where there's friction 217 00:13:36,420 --> 00:13:40,850 today, where there's challenges. I think there's so many opportunities, 218 00:13:41,710 --> 00:13:44,530 uh, to identify process efficiencies, 219 00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:49,530 remove friction from within care delivery systems. Today, I, 220 00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:52,970 I was, uh, talking to someone last week, uh, 221 00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:57,890 who's at a hospital and is a, uh, revenue cycle, uh, 222 00:13:58,030 --> 00:13:58,863 leader, 223 00:13:59,230 --> 00:14:03,130 and she was recounting her challenge. 224 00:14:03,190 --> 00:14:07,810 So she had a team who helped patients with cancer get, uh, 225 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,130 authorization to get their chemotherapy infusions. Uh, 226 00:14:12,130 --> 00:14:16,730 and with labor challenges over the last year, she's lost many, 227 00:14:17,070 --> 00:14:17,290 uh, 228 00:14:17,290 --> 00:14:22,210 people on that team and no longer has an enough staff to, 229 00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:27,570 um, help patients get authorizations for chemotherapy infusions when they, 230 00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:30,690 when they show up, when they wanna show up for those. Um, 231 00:14:30,730 --> 00:14:35,010 I was talking to someone else who, who works in patient access, uh, 232 00:14:35,010 --> 00:14:36,090 at another health system, 233 00:14:36,090 --> 00:14:39,530 and they said their doctors have empty space in their schedules cuz they don't 234 00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:44,450 have enough access center staff to help create appointments and help do the 235 00:14:44,450 --> 00:14:49,050 scheduling, uh, for, uh, for their doctors. And so I think, 236 00:14:49,630 --> 00:14:53,220 you know, again, as we were talking about these headwinds, there, 237 00:14:53,510 --> 00:14:58,020 there are some just very pragmatic basic 238 00:14:58,540 --> 00:15:03,260 challenges that our healthcare delivery systems are facing. 239 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,660 And these are opportunities to use technology, uh, and automation to help. 240 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,780 Um, these are things that, uh, helping, you know, 241 00:15:15,690 --> 00:15:17,820 fill out authorization, uh, 242 00:15:18,030 --> 00:15:22,700 forms and send them to the payers or helping patients self-schedule, 243 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:28,060 uh, and, and managing the intake and scheduling electronically. Uh, 244 00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:32,100 these are things that technology can achieve. 245 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,180 And so I think there, uh, 246 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,580 is a lot of low hanging fruit out there where we can reduce inefficiencies, 247 00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:42,980 support the health systems that are struggling with, uh, 248 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,420 not enough staff and not enough people to manage these workflows. Uh, 249 00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:51,230 and at the same time by, you know, 250 00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:55,270 we don't have to design something very fancy to make the experience better for 251 00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:56,790 patients. Um, 252 00:15:57,140 --> 00:16:00,670 it's removing all of these inefficiencies and blockers that are in the system 253 00:16:01,210 --> 00:16:04,990 and all of this extra work that health systems are, 254 00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:09,190 are trying to do with not enough staff. Uh, and I think, you know, 255 00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:11,710 that may not draw the headlines, uh, 256 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:16,070 but I think by solving those challenges kind of in the, 257 00:16:16,570 --> 00:16:21,110 in the bowels of every health system, uh, we can really, uh, you know, 258 00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:25,390 move the needle on on those outcomes again, you know, patient access to care, 259 00:16:26,190 --> 00:16:29,070 reducing disparities, lowering costs. Um, 260 00:16:29,070 --> 00:16:31,270 so those are the things I'm really excited about. And I was, 261 00:16:31,390 --> 00:16:33,510 I was happy to see the New York Times actually did, 262 00:16:33,950 --> 00:16:38,110 I can't remember exactly what the, uh, headline was last week, but um, 263 00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:43,910 they, uh, they, they did a piece basically headlining, you know, 264 00:16:44,170 --> 00:16:48,470 AI is not, uh, necessarily going to, uh, 265 00:16:48,490 --> 00:16:52,310 do all of the, the fancy things yet in healthcare, but, uh, 266 00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:55,950 it's gonna start making your life easier. And I think that's the right headline. 267 00:16:56,010 --> 00:17:00,430 And, and Eric Topol wrote about this, uh, in his last book saying, you know, 268 00:17:00,430 --> 00:17:04,550 we don't need AI to cure cancer. We just need it to help restore, 269 00:17:05,410 --> 00:17:09,150 uh, the doctor patient relationship and, and remove administrative burden. 270 00:17:09,290 --> 00:17:12,830 And I, I think that's where we're gonna see the value, uh, 271 00:17:12,830 --> 00:17:17,790 over the next several years, uh, and, and really have impacts there. 272 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,530 That makes so, so much sense. And, and definitely love that idea of, you know, 273 00:17:23,530 --> 00:17:26,970 really first and foremost focused on how healthcare can be easier with 274 00:17:27,130 --> 00:17:31,050 artificial intelligence and other technologies. And then, you know, seeing, uh, 275 00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:32,970 seeing where things go from there. Um, 276 00:17:33,030 --> 00:17:37,010 so I think that makes a lot of sense and I appreciate you spelling out, um, 277 00:17:37,010 --> 00:17:40,490 some of those different areas where disruptions, you know, may happen, but, 278 00:17:40,510 --> 00:17:41,690 but really it's kind of like the, 279 00:17:41,690 --> 00:17:45,810 the little areas in the little spaces where it can make a big difference, um, 280 00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:47,930 operationally as well as clinically. 281 00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:52,020 I know for a lot of hospitals and health systems, they're being presented with, 282 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,620 um, on a daily basis, a lot of new technologies now a lot of AI driven, 283 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:02,100 um, applications and, and functionalities and platforms and whatnot, um, 284 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:02,360 to, 285 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,580 to consider to help them in the future will also grappling with some financial 286 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:10,380 challenges and realities that, you know, we haven't faced, um, 287 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:12,580 prior to the pandemic. So from your perspective, 288 00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:14,820 what do you see as being really, um, 289 00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:19,220 important for healthcare organizations to continue to invest in right now? 290 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,900 Um, especially thinking through, you know, a, a, um, 291 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:24,420 limited resources on their end. 292 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:31,430 Well, so this is the year of AI and large language models, right? So I, 293 00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:36,230 I would be remiss if I, if I didn't answer, uh, in, in that context, 294 00:18:36,410 --> 00:18:38,110 but I, but I'm gonna put a twist on it. 295 00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:44,150 I think there is an impulse when people get their hands on a new technology 296 00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:47,870 to come at things from the perspective of, wow, 297 00:18:47,870 --> 00:18:52,070 there's this exciting technology. What, what can I do with it? 298 00:18:53,290 --> 00:18:56,950 And I, I, I go back to what I was talking about a minute ago. I, 299 00:18:57,030 --> 00:18:59,790 I think we need to look at it through the, the reverse lens, 300 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,470 which is we have some very real pain and problems in our health 301 00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:08,910 systems. You know, again, not enough nursing staff, not enough clinic staff, 302 00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:13,790 uh, trouble servicing patients' needs with scheduling appointments, 303 00:19:14,770 --> 00:19:16,590 uh, or, or getting access to care. 304 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:20,670 I think we need to ask how these, 305 00:19:21,410 --> 00:19:23,190 how this new technology, 306 00:19:23,290 --> 00:19:26,910 how these new capabilities can help us solve those problems. 307 00:19:26,970 --> 00:19:31,510 We don't need to go looking for, you know, new things to do or, 308 00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:36,350 uh, or something new exciting. We, we have the problems that we need to solve, 309 00:19:37,010 --> 00:19:41,990 and this gives us a new set of capabilities and a new tool in the toolbox, 310 00:19:42,450 --> 00:19:45,790 uh, to go do that. So I, I think the, 311 00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:50,350 the investment really is how do you take this new set of capabilities, 312 00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:51,850 um, 313 00:19:51,850 --> 00:19:56,670 and use it to solve a problem that maybe felt intractable previously and 314 00:19:56,820 --> 00:20:00,510 felt like you couldn't make headway a against it, but, 315 00:20:00,610 --> 00:20:02,070 but maybe now we can. 316 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,620 Got it. I, I, I really, um, enjoy and appreciate that it, 317 00:20:06,620 --> 00:20:10,740 it's just so important. Um, well, before we wrap up our conversation here, 318 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:11,380 I'm just wondering, 319 00:20:11,380 --> 00:20:14,380 where do you see some of the best opportunities for growth and development in 320 00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:17,020 the future? I know we've talked a little bit about, um, some of this, 321 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,780 but just especially from a, 322 00:20:18,860 --> 00:20:23,660 a tab digital health and IT executive for hospitals and health systems. Um, 323 00:20:23,660 --> 00:20:25,900 you know, what's really the next step? Where do we go from here? 324 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:28,290 Yeah, 325 00:20:28,290 --> 00:20:33,210 I think the thing that I'm most excited about really 326 00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:37,650 is about moving from sort of a reactive model, 327 00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:43,010 uh, that, that doesn't really serve people's needs to, you know, 328 00:20:43,010 --> 00:20:46,890 again, now that we have moved from paper to digital records, 329 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,100 how do we take what's there? 330 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,660 We have all of this information in people's health records, 331 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,380 how do we use it to better serve their needs? Um, 332 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,300 and so I'll go back to the experience that I had in my, in, 333 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,820 in my clinic last week, you know, seeing, uh, 334 00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:10,180 someone with diabetes where, you know, we, we had our conversation, 335 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,420 um, and I wrote out next steps that said, 336 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,940 go get labs done next week. Um, pick up this, uh, 337 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,340 new prescription for, uh, for a new kind of insulin. 338 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,540 Adjust your insulin, uh, up by two units. Um, 339 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,580 go see the podiatrist in a couple of weeks, and here's the referral. Uh, 340 00:21:31,580 --> 00:21:35,300 come back and see my nurse practitioner in four weeks. Uh, 341 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:37,900 and here's information. And you know, 342 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:41,100 today I kind of type all this information into the computer, 343 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,900 and while it's in the computer, nothing's happening with that information. I, 344 00:21:46,460 --> 00:21:50,180 I go home that night and I think to myself, 345 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:51,980 you know, 346 00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:56,900 have I really given that person the tools to go accomplish 347 00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,220 those next steps? Um, how are, 348 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,180 how are they gonna take those next steps of making sure, uh, that they, 349 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,140 the referral gets processed and they get scheduled, that they, uh, 350 00:22:08,650 --> 00:22:13,340 know what lab tests need to be done and where to go and when to come get it 351 00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:16,060 done, uh, that they have the, 352 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,900 the right ability to schedule with my nurse practitioner that the prescription I 353 00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:24,580 wrote and thought I was sending to a pharmacy is gonna be affordable for them, 354 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:27,980 uh, that they're not gonna have side effects the next week, 355 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,100 or that they're gonna have questions about how to take it. 356 00:22:30,570 --> 00:22:35,460 There's all of these loops that I created, uh, 357 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,660 in, in suggesting follow up. And again, today, our, our system, 358 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,820 um, basically puts all of that on the patient. Um, you know, in an ideal world, 359 00:22:46,930 --> 00:22:51,540 we'd have enough staff in our clinics to help patients do all of those things, 360 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,180 but no health system has an enough staff to, uh, 361 00:22:56,180 --> 00:23:00,260 support the patient in every single one of those follow up steps. And, 362 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,460 and patients may not have, uh, the tools, uh, to do it themselves. 363 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,580 And so how can we use intelligence to understand that those are the next steps 364 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,380 in their care that, uh, patients need to take, uh, 365 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,100 and, and help them, you know, give them the tools, 366 00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:24,140 give them the education, provide the electronic nudges, um, 367 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,460 remove the barriers behind the scenes from that referral being processed. 368 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,220 So I think what I'm most excited about over the coming years really is moving 369 00:23:33,450 --> 00:23:36,860 from, you know, V1 of, 370 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,500 of digital in healthcare where we just have, uh, 371 00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:45,700 free text notes to actually adding that layer of intelligence on top of 372 00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:48,380 the electronic health records, um, 373 00:23:48,610 --> 00:23:53,420 that allow us to really support patients and doctors and care teams, uh, 374 00:23:53,670 --> 00:23:56,300 again, as, as Eric Topol said, in restoring, you know, 375 00:23:56,580 --> 00:24:01,380 focusing on the doctor patient relationship, um, aligning, uh, 376 00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:05,140 interests between doctors and patients to support patients in getting the best 377 00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:09,380 care outcomes, uh, that they want to achieve and, and removing those barriers, 378 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:10,700 uh, out of their way. 379 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,680 I love that. Erin, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. 380 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,760 This has been such a fun and interesting discussion, 381 00:24:17,780 --> 00:24:19,440 and I look forward to connecting with you again soon. 382 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,510 Thank you so much, Laura. I really appreciate it. 383 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:30,950 It's so important for leaders at the top of organizations to keep learning, 384 00:24:31,140 --> 00:24:32,830 stay sharp, grow their networks, 385 00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:36,350 help our audience better do this in a more simplified, personalized, 386 00:24:36,410 --> 00:24:40,230 and meaningful way. 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