WEBVTT ::cue(v[voice="Laura"]) { color: white } ::cue(v[voice="Joseph"]) { color: lime } ::cue(v[voice=""]) { color: cyan } 1 00:00:00.770 --> 00:00:06.770 Most inventions or innovation has happened because of someone being curious. 2 00:00:06.800 --> 00:00:09.650 We never should underestimate curiosity. 3 00:00:09.680 --> 00:00:13.880 It's one of the best things that you can have in your back pocket, and I think it's 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:15.710 going to serve anyone well. 5 00:00:16.130 --> 00:00:21.050 Welcome to the Career Relaunch podcast focused on helping you reinvent your career. 6 00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:25.160 My name is Joseph Liu, and I'm here to help you gain the clarity, confidence and courage 7 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:29.360 to overcome the challenges of making changes to your career so you can do more meaningful 8 00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:31.700 work and enjoy your professional life. 9 00:00:31.730 --> 00:00:35.930 In each episode, I feature people who have stepped off the beaten path to reinvent their 10 00:00:35.930 --> 00:00:39.530 careers. We talk through their unique personal journeys, the challenges they 11 00:00:39.530 --> 00:00:43.760 overcame, and the lessons they learned along the way to help you understand what it takes 12 00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:45.440 to relaunch your own career. 13 00:00:45.470 --> 00:00:49.910 Today, my guest is going to share her story of going from an opera singer to a management 14 00:00:49.910 --> 00:00:51.530 consultant focused on business transformation. 15 00:00:52.580 --> 00:00:57.110 We'll discuss the importance of keeping an open mind and the hidden upside of uncertain 16 00:00:57.140 --> 00:00:58.790 transitions afterwards. 17 00:00:58.790 --> 00:01:04.050 During today's mental fuel, I'll talk about the role curiosity plays in uncovering career 18 00:01:04.050 --> 00:01:13.950 opportunities. Curiosity is something we're all born with as 19 00:01:13.950 --> 00:01:17.550 humans. Most of us come into this world with an immense amount of it. 20 00:01:17.580 --> 00:01:22.140 If you ever watch young children around a new set of toys, they'll excitedly try them 21 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:27.390 out. Similarly, during the earlier stages of our careers, we're thirsty to explore, 22 00:01:27.390 --> 00:01:29.400 absorb, and learn as much as we can on the job. 23 00:01:30.030 --> 00:01:35.670 But over time, that curiosity can get dampened and even shut down because of work 24 00:01:35.670 --> 00:01:41.220 pressures, life realities, or societal expectations around how we should be spending 25 00:01:41.220 --> 00:01:42.510 our professional time. 26 00:01:42.510 --> 00:01:48.570 But keeping your curiosity alive is one way to open new doors throughout your career, and 27 00:01:48.570 --> 00:01:50.460 we're going to talk more about this right now. 28 00:01:52.020 --> 00:01:56.430 Today, I'm speaking with Laura McIntyre, a business transformation consultant focused on 29 00:01:56.430 --> 00:02:00.210 connecting people with solutions and empowering them to achieve their personal and 30 00:02:00.210 --> 00:02:01.890 professional aspirations. 31 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:06.480 Originally from Lithuania, Lora began her career as a professional opera singer, 32 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:09.870 performing in the UK, France and other European countries. 33 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:13.800 After realizing her health and emotional well-being were taking a hit from the 34 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:18.060 relentless pressures of performing, Lora decided to take a break from singing and 35 00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:19.920 explore some other career paths. 36 00:02:19.950 --> 00:02:24.210 She is now a consultant at Deloitte, one of the world's leading professional services 37 00:02:24.210 --> 00:02:29.130 firms, where she focuses on human capital consulting, digital transformation and change 38 00:02:29.130 --> 00:02:34.020 management. Now, I first met Lora when she reached out to me on Instagram to discuss the 39 00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:35.910 topic of personal branding. 40 00:02:35.940 --> 00:02:40.980 We later met up in London to collaborate on one of her projects focused on career change, 41 00:02:40.980 --> 00:02:42.660 and we've stayed in touch since. 42 00:02:42.690 --> 00:02:47.580 Coincidentally, my neighbor who lives right next door to us is actually a professional 43 00:02:47.580 --> 00:02:51.900 singer herself. But this conversation with Lora was really my first time getting a 44 00:02:51.900 --> 00:02:56.820 deeper, behind the scenes glimpse into what goes into professional opera singing. 45 00:02:56.830 --> 00:03:00.880 I think you're really going to enjoy hearing how Laura managed to pull off her radical 46 00:03:00.880 --> 00:03:04.420 career change, going from performing in front of audiences to now working in the 47 00:03:04.420 --> 00:03:08.650 corporate world. You can get all the show notes from today's conversation at Career 48 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:11.290 Relaunch Net 104. 49 00:03:11.320 --> 00:03:16.120 Laura spoke with me from Kent, not too far from where I'm based myself here in the UK. 50 00:03:19.060 --> 00:03:21.430 Okay, Laura, welcome to the Career Relaunch podcast. 51 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.160 Great to see you again and welcome to the show. 52 00:03:25.630 --> 00:03:29.920 Thank you so much. I'm really glad to be here and happy to see you again. 53 00:03:29.950 --> 00:03:35.260 I want to talk with you today, Laura, about your transition from opera singing to 54 00:03:35.290 --> 00:03:38.350 consulting, why you left that behind, and also your career transition. 55 00:03:38.350 --> 00:03:43.420 But I would love to just start and get a glimpse into what you're focused on right 56 00:03:43.420 --> 00:03:48.340 now. Can you just tell me a little bit about what you've been devoting your energy to in 57 00:03:48.340 --> 00:03:51.490 your personal and professional life lately? 58 00:03:51.940 --> 00:03:58.150 In my professional life, I've been devoting my time and my energy to my career as a 59 00:03:58.150 --> 00:03:59.980 management consultant. 60 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:02.560 So just working on different projects. 61 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:06.460 Really enjoying it, experiencing, working with different teams. 62 00:04:06.460 --> 00:04:08.140 I work predominantly across the public sector. 63 00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:10.750 Really finding that interesting. 64 00:04:10.750 --> 00:04:16.150 Lots of very challenging situations that I have an opportunity to dive into and support 65 00:04:16.150 --> 00:04:17.530 my clients in. 66 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.730 It's a really diverse kind of portfolio of the work that I do. 67 00:04:21.730 --> 00:04:27.520 And yeah, I'm just finding it really fun at the moment and in my free time. 68 00:04:27.520 --> 00:04:33.580 I've recently started my gym journey, so I'm becoming an avid gym goer, so I'm devoting a 69 00:04:33.580 --> 00:04:35.410 lot of energy and time into that. 70 00:04:35.410 --> 00:04:39.190 And also I'm trying to keep up with my horse-riding skills as well. 71 00:04:39.220 --> 00:04:40.390 Oh wow. Okay. 72 00:04:40.420 --> 00:04:43.300 What kind of horse-riding do you do exactly? 73 00:04:43.390 --> 00:04:44.590 I suppose it's 74 00:04:44.590 --> 00:04:47.110 called just English riding. 75 00:04:47.140 --> 00:04:48.970 Are you, like, jumping over the hurdles? 76 00:04:48.970 --> 00:04:51.010 I don't know the exact terminology. 77 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:56.600 A little bit. I'm not quite there yet, but I'm taking some lessons and doing some kind 78 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.780 of hacking out into the English countryside as well. 79 00:05:00.320 --> 00:05:04.910 And on your LinkedIn profile, Laura, now, I think your jobs title says that you are a 80 00:05:04.910 --> 00:05:10.370 business change consultant at Deloitte, and I know that this term consultant and 81 00:05:10.370 --> 00:05:12.650 management consultant, it floats around out there. 82 00:05:13.010 --> 00:05:15.860 And it's kind of this, to the outsider, a bit of a black box. 83 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:21.470 Can you just share a snapshot of like the sampling of the types of projects and clients 84 00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:23.030 you currently work with? 85 00:05:23.270 --> 00:05:27.230 I mean, this is actually a really difficult question because really no one knows what a 86 00:05:27.230 --> 00:05:28.640 consultant does, right? 87 00:05:28.670 --> 00:05:32.150 I believe even the consultants themselves sometimes don't know what we do. 88 00:05:32.150 --> 00:05:39.770 But to keep it neat and short, I predominantly go in to help clients with any 89 00:05:39.770 --> 00:05:46.880 challenges related with people as their businesses or their organizations are going 90 00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:49.730 through some sort of transformation. 91 00:05:50.210 --> 00:05:55.310 So, for example, whether that would be a technology transformation, whether that would 92 00:05:55.310 --> 00:06:00.860 be people related, culture related transformation, whether that would be a 93 00:06:00.860 --> 00:06:05.900 strategic transformation, whatever it is at the heart of every transformation, there's 94 00:06:05.900 --> 00:06:10.880 people. And my focus predominantly within management consultancy is kind of the human 95 00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:12.380 capital side of things. 96 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:14.600 It's kind of a term, I suppose. 97 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:21.650 Used to talk about people as a resource and kind of having that people centered, human 98 00:06:21.650 --> 00:06:24.560 centered approach to transformation. 99 00:06:24.590 --> 00:06:29.000 And within that kind of one of my key interest areas is business change. 100 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:33.800 Specifically in our organization, we tend to think about professionals in a kind of a 101 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:39.890 T-shaped form, expertise on kind of a high level, broad library of various skills and 102 00:06:39.890 --> 00:06:45.260 knowledge. But then we are encouraged to have kind of that t letter going downwards 103 00:06:45.260 --> 00:06:49.790 into kind of one key area that you're perhaps really passionate about, or maybe 104 00:06:49.820 --> 00:06:52.680 where you're kind of greatest talent lies in. 105 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:58.860 So that's why on LinkedIn profile I call myself a business change kind of specialist 106 00:06:58.860 --> 00:06:59.790 within Deloitte. 107 00:06:59.820 --> 00:07:04.350 You haven't always been a human capital consultant focused on business change and 108 00:07:04.350 --> 00:07:05.520 business transformation. 109 00:07:05.550 --> 00:07:08.310 At Deloitte, you were a professional opera singer. 110 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:14.040 You performed in the UK, France and other European countries, I think for about seven 111 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:16.590 years, if I have that correct. 112 00:07:16.650 --> 00:07:21.210 Before we get to that though, Laura, I'd love to just go back in time a little bit 113 00:07:21.210 --> 00:07:25.200 further. And can you just tell me a little bit about you personally? 114 00:07:25.230 --> 00:07:30.540 Where did you grow up and what can you remember being interested in as a kid? 115 00:07:32.340 --> 00:07:37.050 When I was growing up, music was always very close to our family. 116 00:07:37.080 --> 00:07:42.420 My mum, she was a choir conductor for a while and then she transitioned into working 117 00:07:42.420 --> 00:07:44.850 in school as a music teacher. 118 00:07:44.850 --> 00:07:50.310 So I ended up going to a lot of her rehearsals, and music was always quite close 119 00:07:50.310 --> 00:07:56.060 to my heart. My dad was also a musician, kind of more towards jazz side of things. 120 00:07:56.060 --> 00:07:58.100 So he was also a composer and played in a band. 121 00:07:58.790 --> 00:08:01.100 So I suppose music was always running in the family. 122 00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:07.910 And then from a very early age I started playing some instruments and I ended up going 123 00:08:07.910 --> 00:08:15.470 to sort of like an after school, after school club, but like an after school school 124 00:08:15.470 --> 00:08:22.100 where you are taught various music subjects like music, history, solfeggio, as well as 125 00:08:22.100 --> 00:08:24.710 playing an instrument of your choice. 126 00:08:24.710 --> 00:08:29.390 And at the time, the instrument of choice was a piano, predominantly because there was 127 00:08:29.390 --> 00:08:31.010 a piano in the house already. 128 00:08:31.010 --> 00:08:33.620 So that became kind of the instrument of choice. 129 00:08:34.280 --> 00:08:40.040 So I did that for many, many years, pretty much all the way up to when I graduated from 130 00:08:40.040 --> 00:08:40.760 school. 131 00:08:40.790 --> 00:08:42.020 You played piano? 132 00:08:42.170 --> 00:08:48.800 Yeah, I played piano for a while, and I sang in various kind of bits and bobs choirs, 133 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:51.700 Years ensembles in school as well. 134 00:08:51.700 --> 00:08:58.270 So to be honest, a lot of my childhood and my kind of young years were spent doing 135 00:08:58.270 --> 00:08:58.990 music. 136 00:08:59.470 --> 00:09:02.110 And can you remind me, Laura, where you grew up? 137 00:09:02.650 --> 00:09:04.490 I grew up in Lithuania. 138 00:09:04.490 --> 00:09:11.740 I'm the girl from the coast, so I grew up in a city called Klaipėda, and that's a port. 139 00:09:11.740 --> 00:09:15.490 So we were very close to the beach and wonderful forests. 140 00:09:15.490 --> 00:09:18.580 It's a very beautiful part of the country. 141 00:09:19.930 --> 00:09:23.440 I'm sorry I'm not that familiar with Lithuania just because I've never been there 142 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:29.500 myself. Is music something that's quite well embraced in the education system in 143 00:09:29.500 --> 00:09:31.480 Lithuania? Is it encouraged? 144 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.080 Is it part of the typical academic curriculum there? 145 00:09:36.070 --> 00:09:39.970 At least back in my days, it was part of the general curriculum. 146 00:09:39.970 --> 00:09:45.790 You would have a music lesson where you would be encouraged to learn about different 147 00:09:45.790 --> 00:09:50.570 sorts of music composers, a little bit of music history, kind of that whole rounded 148 00:09:50.570 --> 00:09:52.580 individual type of thing. 149 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:55.880 So not necessarily going too deep, but it has always been encouraged. 150 00:09:55.880 --> 00:10:02.540 And every school has or at least used to have various opportunities for children and 151 00:10:02.810 --> 00:10:08.780 young adults to get involved in various music activities, bands, orchestras, choirs 152 00:10:08.930 --> 00:10:10.790 kind of pursue that passion. 153 00:10:10.820 --> 00:10:14.840 The one thing that's really good, or at least used to be, I keep saying, used to be 154 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:18.020 because I feel like I'm so far removed from it right now. 155 00:10:18.020 --> 00:10:22.040 So I kind of really speak into the situation with 100% certainty. 156 00:10:22.130 --> 00:10:29.390 But we used to have music schools that were sort of after club, but they offered quite 157 00:10:29.420 --> 00:10:35.240 serious music activities for children and for young adults to pursue in various 158 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:39.230 instruments and some of the other things that are already mentioned that I was able to 159 00:10:39.260 --> 00:10:40.280 learn as well. 160 00:10:40.280 --> 00:10:44.060 And it was quite a serious form of education, very well recognized across the 161 00:10:44.060 --> 00:10:48.440 country. We used to have exams, I think twice a year, so it's quite a serious 162 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:49.880 approach to it. 163 00:10:49.910 --> 00:10:55.070 The wonderful thing about that, that it's government funded and parents don't have to 164 00:10:55.070 --> 00:10:59.360 spend loads and loads of money, which enabled a lot of children from less 165 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:04.220 privileged families to attend as well, because the fee was very, almost like 166 00:11:04.250 --> 00:11:05.870 symbolic fee. 167 00:11:05.900 --> 00:11:07.820 Majority of the costs were covered by the government. 168 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:12.920 So there's really an encouragement from the government to pursue these types of careers. 169 00:11:12.950 --> 00:11:14.330 Same with the universities. 170 00:11:14.330 --> 00:11:19.970 There's a lot of free spots or government funded spots for talented individuals to 171 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:20.960 apply for. 172 00:11:21.020 --> 00:11:24.680 So it sounds like this was a pretty big part of your upbringing. 173 00:11:24.710 --> 00:11:29.390 At what point did you decide that, hey, I might want to do this professionally? 174 00:11:29.420 --> 00:11:33.710 Like, do you remember when that occurred to you that this could actually become a career 175 00:11:33.710 --> 00:11:34.430 for you? 176 00:11:35.090 --> 00:11:37.580 I kind of fell into it. 177 00:11:37.610 --> 00:11:42.560 I did a couple of competitions in my last two years in school. 178 00:11:42.590 --> 00:11:45.900 There were sort of singing competitions where I competed. 179 00:11:45.900 --> 00:11:53.550 I won a couple of awards, and a lot of the feedback was that my voice would be really 180 00:11:53.550 --> 00:11:59.280 suited for classical music and that I should really give it a go, so the feedback was 181 00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:01.860 really positive. I kind of enjoyed doing it. 182 00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:07.650 I didn't really have another thing that I was really settled on pursuing as like a very 183 00:12:07.650 --> 00:12:08.670 serious career. 184 00:12:08.670 --> 00:12:14.580 So when I was graduating from school, I thought, well, why not? 185 00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:15.630 Let's give it a go. 186 00:12:15.630 --> 00:12:19.290 So I applied to university audition type of thing. 187 00:12:19.890 --> 00:12:25.200 I did that and I got the spot and I thought, well, great, let's give it a go. 188 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.820 And that's where it all started. 189 00:12:26.820 --> 00:12:31.800 And for somebody maybe who isn't familiar with the different types of opera singing 190 00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:36.420 paths, was there a particular range and type of performance that you eventually ended up 191 00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:37.290 focusing on? 192 00:12:37.650 --> 00:12:43.410 So I think in the early years they avoided trying to put you in a box because when 193 00:12:43.410 --> 00:12:47.100 you're still really young, your voice continues to form up until you're probably 194 00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:48.780 about 25, I think. 195 00:12:48.810 --> 00:12:53.190 So it continually grows together with you and it matures. 196 00:12:53.190 --> 00:13:00.930 But throughout your journey, you start falling into your own kind of area of you 197 00:13:00.930 --> 00:13:05.940 could call it vocal expertise, but yes, it's something to do with the range, the colour of 198 00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:09.750 your voice, kind of where the quality of your sound really lies. 199 00:13:09.750 --> 00:13:14.430 And at the time I was considered to be a mezzo-soprano, which is kind of the mid-range 200 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.300 vocal kind of performance. 201 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.230 And what was your life like as a professional opera singer? 202 00:13:22.260 --> 00:13:26.340 Can you give a glimpse into the types of shows that you, or performances that you 203 00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:27.990 recall being a part of? 204 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:33.870 I think my early career was very much mixed with studying, so I was still kind of a 205 00:13:33.870 --> 00:13:41.190 full-time uni student doing all the music lessons and singing classes and exams, and at 206 00:13:41.190 --> 00:13:47.080 the same time I applied or auditioned for a couple of roles, and then the National Opera 207 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:49.600 House in Lithuania, and I got the roles. 208 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:54.820 So I was often kind of working and studying at the same time. 209 00:13:54.820 --> 00:13:57.940 So I had, I think maybe up to 5 or 6 shows a year. 210 00:13:58.330 --> 00:14:03.640 It wasn't much, but it was just the right amount as kind of a starting singer and to be 211 00:14:03.640 --> 00:14:10.450 honest, all the way throughout my career, studying and working kind of always went hand 212 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:15.880 in hand because I think in singing you can rarely walk away from kind of singing 213 00:14:15.880 --> 00:14:18.040 lessons. You continually require that improvement. 214 00:14:18.400 --> 00:14:19.930 It's a little bit similar, I suppose, to sports. 215 00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:23.080 You always stay connected to your coach. 216 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:27.220 You never really stop learning, you never really stop improving. 217 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:28.780 It always has been connected. 218 00:14:28.780 --> 00:14:36.730 So after I did my undergrad studies in Lithuania, I then applied for a kind of. 219 00:14:36.760 --> 00:14:39.730 It's called like a post-grad program in London. 220 00:14:40.540 --> 00:14:42.890 And that's how I arrived here in the UK. 221 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:48.590 So I did a couple of years of that in the Royal Academy of Music here in London. 222 00:14:48.920 --> 00:14:53.720 Some of the places that I used to perform the most was Opera Holland Park. 223 00:14:53.810 --> 00:14:58.400 They did a lot of kind of seasonal shows, so that was one of my very frequent places that 224 00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:03.200 I went to. I still had contracts back home in Lithuania, so I traveled between here and 225 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:08.210 there. Then I spent a year in National Opera Studio, which had created lots of 226 00:15:08.210 --> 00:15:15.440 opportunities for me to perform with them on different stages in Leeds, in London as well. 227 00:15:15.590 --> 00:15:23.420 And then I got a contract with Scottish Opera, and I spent about nine months living 228 00:15:23.420 --> 00:15:29.420 and working in Glasgow, while at the same time performing in France, as I had a small 229 00:15:29.420 --> 00:15:31.340 contract in France as well. 230 00:15:31.340 --> 00:15:37.880 So we traveled lots of cities and with one of the productions it was Vichy, Versailles 231 00:15:38.300 --> 00:15:39.200 and Lyon. 232 00:15:39.470 --> 00:15:45.620 How did things progress for you compared to maybe how you envisioned them transpiring for 233 00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:49.940 you? Like, if you think about the entry into the world of opera singing compared to the 234 00:15:49.940 --> 00:15:53.450 actual experience, was it what you expected? 235 00:15:53.450 --> 00:15:55.010 Was it different from what you expected? 236 00:15:55.010 --> 00:15:57.860 How would you describe your overall experience as an opera singer? 237 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:03.230 Even though the world is so broad and there seems to be space for everyone, it's quite a 238 00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:05.030 competitive space. 239 00:16:05.060 --> 00:16:10.670 It can be competitive in a good way, and someone perhaps critiques what you do. 240 00:16:10.670 --> 00:16:18.020 And that's what the whole industry is built on, is on critiquing, reading reviews and 241 00:16:18.020 --> 00:16:20.150 someone critiquing your performance. 242 00:16:20.150 --> 00:16:24.020 Someone critiquing, not necessarily with bad intentions, but maybe they want to help you 243 00:16:24.050 --> 00:16:26.210 out. Maybe they want you to improve. 244 00:16:26.300 --> 00:16:29.810 And so I think very early on, I started noticing that it's really difficult to 245 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.240 separate what you do from what you are. 246 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:39.330 And therefore, whenever someone critiques what you do, it really affects how you feel 247 00:16:39.330 --> 00:16:40.590 about who you are. 248 00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:45.480 And that, I guess, was the more tough side of that particular career. 249 00:16:45.510 --> 00:16:53.430 It has many positives, but it also had a few negatives, which I think I ignored for as 250 00:16:53.430 --> 00:16:55.020 long as I could. 251 00:16:55.260 --> 00:17:00.150 And then I suppose I had to come to a realization that perhaps I'm not necessarily 252 00:17:00.150 --> 00:17:05.520 the right type of person to enjoy this type of career. 253 00:17:05.820 --> 00:17:11.790 Was there a particular moment when it dawned on you that you just had to make a change, 254 00:17:11.790 --> 00:17:14.070 and that this was not sustainable for you? 255 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:19.440 So one of the things that singers will often experience is something that comes with the 256 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.190 job is, you know, sometimes you fall sick. 257 00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:24.750 Things happen to your voice. 258 00:17:24.750 --> 00:17:28.200 It becomes way more sensitive because you're using it as an instrument. 259 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.360 So it's naturally way more sensitive. 260 00:17:30.360 --> 00:17:34.170 And I've noticed that when I stopped singing, I stopped being sick, which is 261 00:17:34.170 --> 00:17:40.350 miraculous. But I used to get colds all the time, and I kind of struggled with acid 262 00:17:40.350 --> 00:17:41.640 reflux as well. 263 00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:46.500 And perhaps I still get some of it now, but it's almost I don't notice it anymore. 264 00:17:46.530 --> 00:17:51.270 Or maybe I get less of it as well because I'm not using my voice in that capacity. 265 00:17:51.270 --> 00:17:54.810 It's not as demanding on my voice kind of day to day talking. 266 00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:58.350 So my last year was quite a difficult one. 267 00:17:58.350 --> 00:18:05.940 I fell into kind of this vicious cycle of you're sick and then therefore you're anxious 268 00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:07.980 because when you're sick, you cannot perform. 269 00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:12.240 If you don't perform, you lose money because you're not paid. 270 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.750 If you're not paid for a long time, you can't cover your bills. 271 00:18:15.750 --> 00:18:19.770 And they can also cancel your contracts, because if you've been sick for a long time, 272 00:18:19.770 --> 00:18:21.150 the show must go on. 273 00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:23.460 It seems unfair, but it's also really fair. 274 00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:26.190 It's a business. They can't just wait for you forever. 275 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:31.860 So you kind of get into that cycle of you're sick and therefore you're anxious, but then 276 00:18:31.860 --> 00:18:35.940 also you're sick because you're anxious. 277 00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:38.710 So I found myself in this continuous loop. 278 00:18:38.710 --> 00:18:42.280 And I think there came a time when my voice was not doing very well. 279 00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:46.060 I was determined to push through, and that was one of the biggest mistakes I made, 280 00:18:46.060 --> 00:18:51.700 because I continued pushing through and I think the anxiety really got out of hand. 281 00:18:51.700 --> 00:18:57.070 At one point I used to wake up, remember, in the middle of the night like 3 a.m., just to 282 00:18:57.100 --> 00:19:00.910 check if I still have a voice, because any moment it could be gone. 283 00:19:00.910 --> 00:19:04.060 And I felt really, really anxious, very, very stressed. 284 00:19:04.060 --> 00:19:06.130 Which obviously didn't help my sickness either. 285 00:19:06.490 --> 00:19:11.710 So it only created more acid reflux, kind of more hardship and performance. 286 00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:17.650 And what started happening that sometimes I started losing my voice during a performance 287 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:22.840 that then added the trauma of hundreds of people looking at you while you're losing 288 00:19:22.840 --> 00:19:27.520 your voice. So all of these things started piling up, and I think I was really 289 00:19:27.520 --> 00:19:30.580 struggling to deal with it, like on a mental level. 290 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.620 And I think at that point I decided I need to just take a break. 291 00:19:35.620 --> 00:19:37.870 So it wasn't like I decided I need to change careers. 292 00:19:38.770 --> 00:19:43.150 I think at that point I understood that I have to step away from it, and it was a huge 293 00:19:43.150 --> 00:19:47.320 hit for pride because suddenly you feel like you failed. 294 00:19:48.040 --> 00:19:53.170 You failed at your own job, you failed as a performer, you failed as a singer. 295 00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:56.410 And you know the constant thoughts of what are other people going to say? 296 00:19:56.410 --> 00:20:00.430 And often people in the industry would say, well, you know, you failed because you didn't 297 00:20:00.430 --> 00:20:03.970 have a good technique or, you know, you failed because of x, y, z. 298 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.310 So everyone has an opinion to offer. 299 00:20:06.550 --> 00:20:10.660 And at that point in time, I decided I'm going to take a break. 300 00:20:10.690 --> 00:20:15.100 I'm going to take it slow, continue taking the lessons and just use this time to 301 00:20:15.130 --> 00:20:25.060 recover. What happened during that period was I very quickly realized that the recovery 302 00:20:25.090 --> 00:20:27.880 needed to happen, not in my voice. 303 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:29.440 So there was nothing wrong with my voice. 304 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:30.640 There was nothing wrong with my body. 305 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.400 There was no physical issue. 306 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.180 The issue was a mental issue. 307 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:42.080 I think over that really stressful year, I built a lot of trauma in my head, which 308 00:20:42.080 --> 00:20:49.550 started really inhibiting kind of my singing, and I think I faced a choice at that 309 00:20:49.550 --> 00:20:55.550 point. How much time and how much of my life I'm willing to invest into this healing 310 00:20:55.550 --> 00:21:00.770 journey, because it's not that difficult to heal from physical trauma. 311 00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:02.900 It's much more difficult. 312 00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:06.650 It's not necessarily much more difficult, but it's less predictable. 313 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:11.930 Healing from kind of mental trauma or like a psychological trauma. 314 00:21:18.590 --> 00:21:23.270 Yeah, I think that's what makes these sort of transitions so unsettling because there's not 315 00:21:23.270 --> 00:21:25.700 a clear start and end. 316 00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:27.800 What you just mentioned about your physical side. 317 00:21:28.010 --> 00:21:31.490 You kind of know when you've physically gotten better from an injury or something. 318 00:21:31.490 --> 00:21:36.940 But yeah, the psychological and emotional side of of making a transition or having come 319 00:21:36.940 --> 00:21:40.750 out of a really difficult situation is a lot less tangible. 320 00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:43.900 And so it's it's just kind of harder to wrestle with. 321 00:21:43.900 --> 00:21:46.270 And then that creates more anxiety. 322 00:21:46.300 --> 00:21:49.120 Exactly. It's really difficult. 323 00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:53.470 I think anxiety is one of the most difficult things to recover from because you're so 324 00:21:53.470 --> 00:21:55.000 invested in your own healing journey. 325 00:21:55.030 --> 00:21:57.100 You know, the stakes are high. 326 00:21:57.100 --> 00:22:00.190 You must recover from this, and that only creates more anxiety. 327 00:22:00.190 --> 00:22:04.360 So it's almost like you have to completely walk away from it in order to completely 328 00:22:04.390 --> 00:22:09.130 heal. Because if you keep on pushing yourself with the pressure of I must heal 329 00:22:09.130 --> 00:22:11.350 from this, it just doesn't work that way. 330 00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:13.210 Or at least it didn't work that way for me. 331 00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:18.940 So what I did, I stepped away from it all and then found myself in a in a funny 332 00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:21.460 predicament of having cancelled all my contracts. 333 00:22:22.510 --> 00:22:23.710 I had no income. 334 00:22:24.490 --> 00:22:27.790 Well, that'd be really interesting to talk about that now, Laura, this transition of 335 00:22:27.790 --> 00:22:30.190 yours. So it sounds like you need to take a step back. 336 00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:33.840 You're not sure if it's going to be a permanent step away, or just kind of a 337 00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:35.190 momentary pause. 338 00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:36.540 London is not. 339 00:22:36.570 --> 00:22:40.590 Or the UK in general is not a cheap place to live, so obviously you had to make ends meet. 340 00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:44.850 What did you do? Like what kind of jobs did you apply to? 341 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.540 And I'd also be curious what sort of roles you took on. 342 00:22:48.570 --> 00:22:51.660 Maybe like temporary jobs you had to take on to make ends meet. 343 00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:57.840 So during that time, I obviously thought, you know, I have to pay my bills, I need to find 344 00:22:57.840 --> 00:23:02.820 a job. So I opened all the, you know, what they call the websites with all the job 345 00:23:02.850 --> 00:23:05.370 opportunities. And I started scrolling. 346 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:11.730 It was a really discouraging time as well, because all I had in my education, kind of in 347 00:23:11.730 --> 00:23:14.940 my little portfolio was music studies. 348 00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:17.460 I barely had any other work experience. 349 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:23.790 I've only done music, which at the time seemed really not applicable to anything 350 00:23:23.790 --> 00:23:30.640 else. So what I started is my application journey applying to loads and loads of 351 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:37.600 different jobs. I really was aiming low and when I say low, I mean where the requirements 352 00:23:37.600 --> 00:23:40.090 were very basic. 353 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:44.110 So not necessarily that they're bad jobs, but where the requirements are completely 354 00:23:44.110 --> 00:23:46.570 basic, like washing the dishes. 355 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:47.110 Oh wow. 356 00:23:47.260 --> 00:23:52.210 The only requirement you need to have is usually the ability to work in the UK. 357 00:23:52.570 --> 00:23:54.970 And I don't even think they require anything else. 358 00:23:55.270 --> 00:23:59.200 They usually just say as long as you can stand and you're physically fit to stand 359 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.360 there all day and wash the dishes, we're good. 360 00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:05.470 So I applied for jobs like that, catering, waitressing, jobs. 361 00:24:05.470 --> 00:24:09.940 So where the kind of the level of requirements for the entry-level was pretty 362 00:24:09.940 --> 00:24:15.100 basic because I really saw myself as someone who doesn't have anything else to offer 363 00:24:15.100 --> 00:24:17.860 regardless. And I just thought, well, that's going to be easy to get one. 364 00:24:18.010 --> 00:24:19.960 I just thought anyone could get this. 365 00:24:20.890 --> 00:24:29.650 I think I applied to close to maybe 80 jobs over the course of about four months. 366 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:31.390 I was rejected from all of them. 367 00:24:31.420 --> 00:24:32.110 Oh, wow. 368 00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:35.170 Either didn't hear back or was rejected. 369 00:24:35.170 --> 00:24:38.560 And I think progressively my applications were just going down. 370 00:24:38.560 --> 00:24:42.340 Down to like just any kind of job will do. 371 00:24:42.370 --> 00:24:44.320 If you pay me, I'll work. 372 00:24:44.710 --> 00:24:50.110 So for 3 or 4 months here, you're applying to whatever 80 jobs and you're getting either no 373 00:24:50.110 --> 00:24:52.720 response or negative response and oh wow. 374 00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:55.660 Okay. And like what was running through your head at that time? 375 00:24:55.690 --> 00:24:59.920 Were you thinking go back to opera or was that not. 376 00:24:59.950 --> 00:25:06.070 Well, that wasn't an option either, because I wasn't in a place to actually do anything 377 00:25:06.070 --> 00:25:07.960 with my voice either. 378 00:25:08.710 --> 00:25:14.950 I was really surprised and like, puzzled because I thought, I don't know, why doesn't 379 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:16.420 anyone want me? 380 00:25:17.290 --> 00:25:19.600 And I thought, well, surely I can wash the dishes. 381 00:25:20.650 --> 00:25:25.270 And I remember I called my mum and she said, how is it going? 382 00:25:25.300 --> 00:25:28.610 And I said, well, it's not going very well. 383 00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:35.810 I said I keep on either hearing negative responses or not hearing back at all. 384 00:25:35.990 --> 00:25:37.130 So basically nothing happened. 385 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:44.360 My mom said something quite profound, quite unusual to what she would normally say as 386 00:25:44.360 --> 00:25:47.180 well. She said, you know, this is really strange. 387 00:25:48.080 --> 00:25:54.950 I think it's because life is about to offer something very different to you, and it's 388 00:25:54.950 --> 00:26:00.290 preventing you from getting anything else, because there is a plan in place and there's 389 00:26:00.290 --> 00:26:02.780 a job for you that's waiting for you. 390 00:26:02.780 --> 00:26:04.760 And it's not any of these jobs. 391 00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:08.360 So it's basically the life itself is preventing you from getting it. 392 00:26:08.780 --> 00:26:11.480 And I thought, whoa, that's a really strange thing for my mom to say. 393 00:26:11.510 --> 00:26:15.410 She doesn't normally speak like that, but I think it encouraged me. 394 00:26:16.040 --> 00:26:22.190 And what happened then was that maybe a couple of weeks later, I ran into someone who 395 00:26:22.190 --> 00:26:26.310 I knew and they sort of asked, as usual, how is this singing going? 396 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.490 And I said, well, it's not going very well. 397 00:26:29.610 --> 00:26:32.460 I kind of paused everything there. 398 00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:38.550 And I'm actually now looking any kind of job because I need to kind of sustain myself. 399 00:26:38.550 --> 00:26:47.070 And the person looked at me and he said, oh, well, I know someone who is looking for 400 00:26:47.070 --> 00:26:51.120 people like they have a business and they're constantly looking for new people to join. 401 00:26:51.510 --> 00:26:53.760 And in my head, I thought, oh, business. 402 00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:55.290 I really don't know anything about business. 403 00:26:55.290 --> 00:26:56.970 I'm definitely not a suitable candidate. 404 00:26:56.970 --> 00:27:00.990 But out of kind of politeness, I said, yes, of course, I'll connect with them, I'll reach 405 00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:05.100 out to them. And I did, and they told me about their business. 406 00:27:05.100 --> 00:27:06.450 They told me they have. 407 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:09.390 They sent me a list of different roles that they have. 408 00:27:09.540 --> 00:27:15.300 I looked at all of them and I obviously thought, well, this is I can't do any of 409 00:27:15.300 --> 00:27:17.130 this. I know nothing about business. 410 00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:19.140 I know nothing about any of these roles. 411 00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:21.630 The one thing I spotted was a graduate position. 412 00:27:22.890 --> 00:27:24.870 Is this the customer service position? 413 00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:31.710 Yes. And I reached out back and I said, well, for a graduate position, what's the time 414 00:27:31.710 --> 00:27:38.730 period for that graduate in terms of I graduated many, many years ago. 415 00:27:38.760 --> 00:27:41.220 Am I still, you know, could I still be a candidate? 416 00:27:42.090 --> 00:27:43.740 And the guy said, yes. 417 00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:44.760 Why not? 418 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.530 And I said, okay, I did. 419 00:27:46.560 --> 00:27:48.420 And I said, does it matter where I graduated from? 420 00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:50.400 And they were like, no, it doesn't matter. 421 00:27:50.580 --> 00:27:52.050 Oh, okay. 422 00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:53.730 Maybe it doesn't matter though. 423 00:27:53.760 --> 00:27:57.750 And I applied and the position that I applied for was customer services because 424 00:27:57.780 --> 00:28:02.790 again, I thought, I don't have much experience with any other things, but I do 425 00:28:02.790 --> 00:28:04.200 have experience with people. 426 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:06.720 So I thought, that's what I'm going to hang on to. 427 00:28:06.750 --> 00:28:08.190 And I applied and I. 428 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:09.120 Got the job. 429 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:16.410 And how did that go for you? 430 00:28:16.410 --> 00:28:19.320 I think you spent a few years doing that. 431 00:28:19.350 --> 00:28:22.380 It sounds like you went from a place where you felt like you didn't have, I guess, the 432 00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:24.400 formalized qualifications to take on that role. 433 00:28:24.700 --> 00:28:27.820 But when you actually got into the role, what was your experience there like? 434 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:30.670 It was a really good experience, I think. 435 00:28:30.670 --> 00:28:37.270 I did not expect to enjoy it as much as I did, and that is one of the reasons why I 436 00:28:37.270 --> 00:28:38.950 never got back to singing. 437 00:28:39.100 --> 00:28:43.510 I just really enjoyed the whole corporate environment and client services was a very 438 00:28:43.510 --> 00:28:44.620 broad role. 439 00:28:44.620 --> 00:28:46.750 It offered a lot of variety, lots of people contact. 440 00:28:47.740 --> 00:28:54.340 I enjoyed so much learning about business, what they do, kind of the whole corporate 441 00:28:54.340 --> 00:28:55.450 side of things. 442 00:28:55.450 --> 00:28:57.100 Really, really loved it. 443 00:28:57.190 --> 00:29:02.080 I think I did that for about a year, and then because it was a small organization, 444 00:29:02.110 --> 00:29:06.670 kind of almost like a startup, that were going through a lot of restructuring, and 445 00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:09.340 they kind of kept on changing their shape. 446 00:29:09.340 --> 00:29:13.000 So they kept moving me kind of around different roles. 447 00:29:13.120 --> 00:29:14.980 So I got to experience a lot. 448 00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:17.410 I was offered a role as an analyst, data analyst. 449 00:29:17.830 --> 00:29:20.050 And I thought, well, that's interesting, why not? 450 00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:23.050 And basically from starting from customer services. 451 00:29:23.500 --> 00:29:31.240 Associate moved my way up through data analysts, insight analyst into consultant. 452 00:29:31.270 --> 00:29:35.500 And then that takes us to the consulting chapter of your career, which is what I'm 453 00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:37.090 hoping to talk with you about now. 454 00:29:37.090 --> 00:29:42.640 You climb all the way up to becoming a strategy consultant, and then eventually you 455 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:43.900 would make it to Deloitte. 456 00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:49.090 I was looking into the acceptance rates of applicants at Deloitte, and according to the 457 00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:52.060 Cambridge consultant, it's about 4%. 458 00:29:52.090 --> 00:29:57.160 Now, I'm not sure how precise that figure is, but it's very well known in the corporate 459 00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:02.590 world that landing a job at Deloitte or any of the big four professional firms, Deloitte 460 00:30:02.590 --> 00:30:07.660 or Ernst and Young or PwC or KPMG, it's really competitive to get into these places. 461 00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:11.770 As someone who didn't--at least before this latest role that you just described before 462 00:30:11.800 --> 00:30:15.850 that--didn't have a formalized business background, how did you approach landing a 463 00:30:15.850 --> 00:30:16.990 job at Deloitte? 464 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:18.760 Well, I'm surprised now too! 465 00:30:18.760 --> 00:30:20.110 I didn't know these rates! 466 00:30:20.250 --> 00:30:21.870 Yeah. It's competitive. 467 00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:23.100 You make me surprised now too! Now. 468 00:30:23.100 --> 00:30:24.540 Yeah, you made it. 469 00:30:25.320 --> 00:30:28.050 Oh my goodness. Feeding my imposter syndrome. 470 00:30:29.100 --> 00:30:33.690 I work with a lot of business schools, and I know that consulting is one of the esteemed 471 00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:38.250 target industries that a lot of business students try to get into. 472 00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:40.320 There's banking, there's consulting. 473 00:30:40.320 --> 00:30:43.530 Those are two of the most attractive and also the most competitive. 474 00:30:43.530 --> 00:30:46.260 And so a lot of people don't make it. 475 00:30:46.260 --> 00:30:49.920 And a lot of people wonder, how do you land a job at one of these big four firms or one 476 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:51.120 of the big three firms? 477 00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:54.060 So yeah, I'm just curious how you did it. 478 00:30:54.660 --> 00:30:58.860 I think a lot of it is also to do with being at the right place at the right time. 479 00:30:58.860 --> 00:31:00.840 I think we cannot discredit that. 480 00:31:00.840 --> 00:31:05.430 I know that things right now are really, really tough within the industry. 481 00:31:05.430 --> 00:31:07.530 So it really depends on the time and the place. 482 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.140 What's the environment like? 483 00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:11.550 What's the industry like? 484 00:31:11.550 --> 00:31:14.730 It's not so much to do with what you bring. 485 00:31:14.730 --> 00:31:17.490 Sometimes it's also being able to ride the tide. 486 00:31:19.520 --> 00:31:24.950 But basically what happened in my previous job, and I'm forever grateful to them for the 487 00:31:24.950 --> 00:31:26.840 opportunities that they provided me with. 488 00:31:26.840 --> 00:31:33.200 I had so many opportunities just to learn on the job, and I think what really helped is 489 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.480 keeping that why not attitude. 490 00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:40.970 Some of the roles I was quite certain at the time, this is not going to be my forever 491 00:31:40.970 --> 00:31:46.940 role. I don't think this is my thing, but I used that time to kind of take as much as I 492 00:31:46.940 --> 00:31:51.800 can from that role, from the responsibilities that I was given. 493 00:31:51.800 --> 00:31:57.080 Some of them I did not thoroughly enjoy, but I think I tried to keep an attitude of what 494 00:31:57.080 --> 00:32:02.420 can I learn from this and kind of put in my little library of skills. 495 00:32:05.690 --> 00:32:08.660 One thing that did help was during Covid. 496 00:32:08.660 --> 00:32:13.940 While I always say while other people were baking bread and kind of everyone found. 497 00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:14.720 Everyone found their own thing . . . 498 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:15.590 I was not one those people! 499 00:32:15.620 --> 00:32:18.540 Lots of people were. And I have nothing against people who bake bread. 500 00:32:18.540 --> 00:32:20.160 I'm just really bad baker. 501 00:32:20.310 --> 00:32:21.750 That's the true reason behind it. 502 00:32:21.750 --> 00:32:25.920 I decided that I also need to do something, you know, with my time, even though I was 503 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:30.030 still full-time working because our organization was working kind of in the 504 00:32:30.030 --> 00:32:35.370 digital space. So we were not really affected by the whole kind of work from home. 505 00:32:35.850 --> 00:32:40.410 What I did was I decided to do a little like a diploma. 506 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.300 It's not a university, it's not a college. 507 00:32:42.300 --> 00:32:43.440 It's not any of those. 508 00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:45.270 It's just like a certification. 509 00:32:45.300 --> 00:32:50.580 But it's a full-year course with lots of assignments and it's still quite pretty 510 00:32:50.580 --> 00:32:55.080 in-depth. The topic that I chose was actually Human Resources, even though I did 511 00:32:55.080 --> 00:32:59.070 not necessarily have a desire to become a human resources specialist. 512 00:32:59.070 --> 00:33:05.820 But I kept that passion for people and business because I never had that true 513 00:33:05.820 --> 00:33:07.650 background in business. 514 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:13.950 After reading kind of the brochure of that certificate, I really enjoyed what they were 515 00:33:13.950 --> 00:33:19.360 outlining. They were kind of really going on that human-centered approach to how to run an 516 00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:21.400 organization through people. 517 00:33:21.430 --> 00:33:23.590 And I just loved it. And I thought, why not? 518 00:33:23.620 --> 00:33:29.740 So that's the thing that I did within Covid, which I think also helped me land the job at 519 00:33:29.740 --> 00:33:35.410 Deloitte because I was able to offer almost like a niche expertise in addition to my more 520 00:33:35.410 --> 00:33:37.360 general consulting skills. 521 00:33:37.840 --> 00:33:41.980 I think the other thing that does help is if you know someone within the organization, it 522 00:33:41.980 --> 00:33:50.770 can really help you almost tailor not necessarily lie or pretend, but tailor your 523 00:33:50.800 --> 00:33:56.290 kind of focus of your application to what really matters to the organization as well. 524 00:33:56.320 --> 00:34:03.370 So I was kind of blessed to have some people on the inside who told me a little bit about 525 00:34:03.370 --> 00:34:04.510 the organization. 526 00:34:04.510 --> 00:34:08.140 They recommended the organization as a good organization to work for. 527 00:34:08.170 --> 00:34:11.710 These are just. People in your professional circle network. 528 00:34:11.740 --> 00:34:12.220 Okay. 529 00:34:12.250 --> 00:34:15.850 Yeah. So a couple of people in my network were in the organization. 530 00:34:15.850 --> 00:34:21.640 So that really helped because it really gave me an insight into the application process, 531 00:34:21.640 --> 00:34:27.130 understanding what are the priorities for the business, what can I speak into? 532 00:34:27.160 --> 00:34:34.480 And it really helped me to also then tailor my CV, tailor my application, and even tailor 533 00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:41.740 my interview approach to make sure that when I come in and I speak, they know that I 534 00:34:41.740 --> 00:34:45.490 understand their business, I understand their challenges, I understand their clients, 535 00:34:45.490 --> 00:34:51.160 I understand what they need, and I'm not coming in cold like I felt like one of their 536 00:34:51.160 --> 00:34:52.630 own in a way. 537 00:34:53.740 --> 00:34:59.470 So it sounds like you investing the energy and the time into doing your side research, 538 00:34:59.470 --> 00:35:04.480 your side certification, and also just really customizing and tailoring your 539 00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:08.140 approach. It really sounds like that helped you stand out as a candidate. 540 00:35:08.620 --> 00:35:12.760 I suppose it sounds a bit of a cliche, you know, don't go on an interview without having 541 00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:17.660 read about the organization, but I think you'd be surprised how many people don't. 542 00:35:18.410 --> 00:35:21.530 It's a surprising, shocking numbers as well. 543 00:35:21.740 --> 00:35:23.510 And I think that's really the key. 544 00:35:23.510 --> 00:35:27.560 If you can go into that room and talk their language. 545 00:35:28.460 --> 00:35:33.290 Talk about the things that matter to them, kind of from the hiring manager all the way 546 00:35:33.290 --> 00:35:36.140 into kind of their current year priorities. 547 00:35:36.140 --> 00:35:37.610 That shows dedication. 548 00:35:37.610 --> 00:35:41.630 You've dedicated your time to research these things, that shows interest. 549 00:35:41.660 --> 00:35:44.540 You've shown interest in that organization. 550 00:35:44.540 --> 00:35:48.110 You can show expertise and what you know about clients, and then you can bring your 551 00:35:48.110 --> 00:35:52.010 own little niche expertise in something else that you do. 552 00:35:52.040 --> 00:35:56.510 And I think all of that together makes you quite attractive. 553 00:35:56.720 --> 00:35:59.600 So it sounds like things are going well for you there at Deloitte. 554 00:35:59.600 --> 00:36:04.670 And one of the last things I was hoping we could talk about before we wrap up are just 555 00:36:04.670 --> 00:36:09.140 some of the lessons that you've learned along the way of your career change journey. 556 00:36:09.170 --> 00:36:14.030 When you look back on your career change journey, Is there anything in particular that 557 00:36:14.030 --> 00:36:20.870 you wished you had known that you now know about what it takes to make a pivot 558 00:36:20.870 --> 00:36:21.800 successfully? 559 00:36:22.820 --> 00:36:27.860 I'm overall really happy with my transition, so I don't think there's anything that I'm 560 00:36:27.860 --> 00:36:33.320 regretting. So it's probably not as strong of an emotion, but I really wish I would have 561 00:36:34.010 --> 00:36:43.310 known sooner that I'm capable of so much more than I give credit to myself for. 562 00:36:43.640 --> 00:36:47.900 I think it has been a really encouraging journey throughout, and I probably owe it to 563 00:36:47.930 --> 00:36:53.750 a lot of people along walking alongside of me, who continually kept giving me 564 00:36:53.750 --> 00:36:58.790 opportunities and opening doors for me because they believed in me when I didn't 565 00:36:58.790 --> 00:36:59.960 believe in myself. 566 00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:04.160 So I think, number one, surrounding yourself with those people again sounds really cliché, 567 00:37:04.160 --> 00:37:05.720 but it's so important. 568 00:37:05.750 --> 00:37:11.220 And then second thing, just believing in yourself and giving yourself more credit, I 569 00:37:11.220 --> 00:37:12.540 think is important. 570 00:37:12.540 --> 00:37:17.280 And I think the third thing would be I hear a lot of people saying, oh, I'm really not 571 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:18.390 happy in my current job. 572 00:37:18.390 --> 00:37:19.770 I want to change, I want to do something else. 573 00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:25.410 And they just sort of sit and wait until kind of the penny drops and they're going to 574 00:37:25.410 --> 00:37:27.630 figure out their next big move. 575 00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:31.290 Sometimes your pivot is not made out of one big move. 576 00:37:31.290 --> 00:37:36.030 Sometimes it's made out of lots of little steps and moves, and sometimes you're going 577 00:37:36.060 --> 00:37:38.280 to fall into things and that's okay. 578 00:37:38.310 --> 00:37:41.790 Give it a go. Approach everything with the attitude of why not? 579 00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:43.350 Let's just give it a go. 580 00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:45.570 Was that a major adjustment for you, Laura? 581 00:37:45.600 --> 00:37:50.280 I know we didn't really touch on this, but you go from being an opera singer in front of 582 00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:54.840 these. What I'm assuming quite large audiences in this sort of performance space 583 00:37:54.840 --> 00:38:00.750 to then being in an office, kind of dressed up in office attire, working with clients, 584 00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:03.630 sometimes behind a laptop, kind of in these meeting rooms. 585 00:38:03.660 --> 00:38:06.870 Was that a hard adjustment to make, or did you find that you kind of just fell quite 586 00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:08.040 naturally into that? 587 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:13.140 It wasn't too difficult, but there were some things to get used to. 588 00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:16.920 Like, I think in the opera world you're way more active. 589 00:38:16.950 --> 00:38:24.330 There's less kind of sitting down and your work is really split into kind of bursts of 590 00:38:24.330 --> 00:38:29.160 energy. So you'll rehearse a scene, you have a little bit of time to hang around while 591 00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:31.530 some other people are doing other things. 592 00:38:31.530 --> 00:38:38.040 So like your work is more segmented and it's really stretched across kind of the day. 593 00:38:38.040 --> 00:38:42.630 It's also much later in the day, so you don't really start as early, but sometimes 594 00:38:42.630 --> 00:38:44.970 you do tend to finish really, really late. 595 00:38:44.970 --> 00:38:48.300 So that adjustment was something to get used to. 596 00:38:48.510 --> 00:38:53.520 So just being able to sit again from like 8 or 9 until five, it just reminded me of 597 00:38:53.520 --> 00:38:54.240 school. 598 00:38:54.270 --> 00:38:54.570 Yeah. 599 00:38:54.600 --> 00:38:59.160 And at first I think I really struggled to just keep my concentration going. 600 00:38:59.190 --> 00:39:01.200 I had like back issues as well. 601 00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:05.550 When I first started sitting for long periods, I wasn't used to it, but these are 602 00:39:05.580 --> 00:39:07.620 kind of the only major, I suppose, adjustments. 603 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:10.390 It wasn't dramatic. 604 00:39:11.200 --> 00:39:15.640 And having been through this career change, Laura, what's one thing that you've learned 605 00:39:15.640 --> 00:39:16.900 about yourself? 606 00:39:17.860 --> 00:39:23.740 One thing I learned about myself is that curiosity is my superpower. 607 00:39:23.770 --> 00:39:28.990 Yeah, it sounds like curiosity has really served you well in your career, from just the 608 00:39:28.990 --> 00:39:33.310 example you gave of not being able to answer maybe a client question, and then you going 609 00:39:33.310 --> 00:39:37.510 back and diving deeper into that, or you just allowing yourself to say yes to some of 610 00:39:37.510 --> 00:39:40.870 these opportunities when you weren't quite sure how they were going to work out. 611 00:39:40.870 --> 00:39:43.960 So it does sound like that's worked very well for you. 612 00:39:44.350 --> 00:39:49.330 It really has. And I'm always very encouraged to hear the stories from around the world 613 00:39:49.330 --> 00:39:56.410 that most inventions or innovation has happened because of someone being curious and 614 00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:59.380 kind of going against the usual and thinking, why not? 615 00:39:59.410 --> 00:40:00.610 Well what if. 616 00:40:00.700 --> 00:40:02.560 And I think that's a really encouraging. 617 00:40:02.560 --> 00:40:04.720 And I think we never should underestimate curiosity. 618 00:40:05.890 --> 00:40:10.100 It's one of the best things that you can have in your back pocket, and I think it's 619 00:40:10.100 --> 00:40:12.470 going to serve anyone well. 620 00:40:12.890 --> 00:40:16.400 And one more question before we wrap up with one of your side projects. 621 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:18.020 Do you still sing? 622 00:40:18.740 --> 00:40:21.110 I still do. Not in the same capacity. 623 00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:25.700 I don't do opera anymore, but I kind of sing in my free time. 624 00:40:25.700 --> 00:40:31.100 I sing in a kind of my local church sort of every other Sunday. 625 00:40:31.100 --> 00:40:34.850 So I do have some opportunities for my creative outlet. 626 00:40:35.120 --> 00:40:39.320 I do want to wrap up speaking of outlets with one of your side projects, can you tell me a 627 00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:45.620 little bit more about Path Changer, which is actually how you and I first met and 628 00:40:45.620 --> 00:40:49.550 something I know you've been working on, wherever you can somehow find the time to 629 00:40:49.580 --> 00:40:50.480 work on it. 630 00:40:50.510 --> 00:40:51.860 It's been such a busy time. 631 00:40:51.860 --> 00:40:57.440 I haven't had a chance to do much on it in the last couple of months, but it is kind of 632 00:40:57.470 --> 00:41:00.020 something that I call my soul project. 633 00:41:00.020 --> 00:41:04.880 One of the things that I'm quite passionate for, having gone through this career change 634 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:09.170 journey myself is helping others. 635 00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:12.890 Not calling myself a career expert and not a career advisor. 636 00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.590 I'm not anything in that area. 637 00:41:15.710 --> 00:41:22.550 However, I really wanted to create something that would allow people to get a glimpse into 638 00:41:22.580 --> 00:41:25.070 various perspectives related to career change. 639 00:41:26.180 --> 00:41:31.610 Hopefully with the view that they start seeing that things are possible. 640 00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:35.990 Because I think one of the most frustrating things for me to see is when someone really 641 00:41:35.990 --> 00:41:42.200 feels boxed in and without options, for the same reasons that I felt boxed in. 642 00:41:42.230 --> 00:41:43.850 For that, I don't have the right certificate. 643 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:45.740 I don't have the right degree. 644 00:41:45.740 --> 00:41:51.140 I don't have the right background to try something new, or to apply for this position, 645 00:41:51.170 --> 00:41:55.370 or to have a different career to the one that I had before. 646 00:41:55.400 --> 00:42:00.620 So I tried to create something, almost like an interview form, where I interview various 647 00:42:00.620 --> 00:42:06.540 experts with viewpoints or expertise related to something that might be relevant to career 648 00:42:06.570 --> 00:42:12.030 change. And yeah, and hoping that people can find that content interesting and then 649 00:42:12.030 --> 00:42:16.860 ideally also then connect with those experts if they want to take that conversation 650 00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:17.520 further. 651 00:42:17.550 --> 00:42:21.810 Well, and I've seen some of those video clips myself and they're very useful and very 652 00:42:21.810 --> 00:42:25.020 insightful. So I would encourage people to check those out. 653 00:42:25.050 --> 00:42:28.320 And speaking of which, if they do want to learn more about you, or if they want to 654 00:42:28.350 --> 00:42:31.890 check out some of the content you've been creating through your Path Changer 655 00:42:31.890 --> 00:42:35.340 initiative, where is the best place people can find you? 656 00:42:35.790 --> 00:42:40.370 So I think currently the best place to find me would be either on LinkedIn . 657 00:42:40.370 --> 00:42:43.260 . . so I'm Laura McIntyre on there or Instagram. 658 00:42:43.860 --> 00:42:48.270 So if you do have Instagram, @pathchangerofficial is the handle. 659 00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:53.640 And that's where I'll be sharing all things related to career change. 660 00:42:53.790 --> 00:42:58.860 Okay. And we'll be sure to include links to those profiles on our show notes. 661 00:42:58.860 --> 00:43:03.510 So thank you so much, Laura, for taking this time out of your busy schedule to tell us a 662 00:43:03.510 --> 00:43:07.170 little bit about your former life as an opera singer, your transition into the world 663 00:43:07.170 --> 00:43:11.520 of consulting, and also just the importance of being curious and open and how much that 664 00:43:11.520 --> 00:43:13.170 can really serve you in your career. 665 00:43:13.170 --> 00:43:18.000 So best of luck with your time there at Deloitte with Pat changer, and I also hope we 666 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.710 can cross paths again soon. 667 00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:22.110 Yes. Thank you so much for inviting me. 668 00:43:22.110 --> 00:43:23.940 It's been really a pleasure to speak to you again. 669 00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:33.390 So I hope you enjoyed hearing Laura's perspectives on prioritizing your mental 670 00:43:33.390 --> 00:43:37.380 health, the power of your professional network, and believing in yourself. 671 00:43:37.410 --> 00:43:41.220 Now it's time to wrap up with today's mental Fuel, where I'm going to pick up on this 672 00:43:41.220 --> 00:43:46.140 topic of how curiosity can play an important role in your career change journey. 673 00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:54.720 Before we get to today's mental fuel, I wanted to thank Stubble and Co for supporting 674 00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:59.520 this episode of the Career Relaunch podcast crafted for the modern urban professional. 675 00:43:59.550 --> 00:44:04.420 Stubble and Co combines premium British design and practical functionality, offering 676 00:44:04.420 --> 00:44:09.070 stylish, durable and high quality bags made from recycled materials perfect for work and 677 00:44:09.070 --> 00:44:14.050 travels. After ordering one of their crossbody slings myself, I also appreciated 678 00:44:14.050 --> 00:44:18.670 how they use minimal packaging and give 1% of their annual sales to approved 679 00:44:18.670 --> 00:44:20.380 environmental nonprofits. 680 00:44:20.410 --> 00:44:25.150 Check out their full range of bags and accessories at career Relaunch net slash 681 00:44:25.150 --> 00:44:31.810 stubble. This is the part of the show called Mental Fuel, where I finished the show with a 682 00:44:31.810 --> 00:44:35.890 brief personal story related to one of the topics we covered today, and wrap up with a 683 00:44:35.890 --> 00:44:38.980 simple challenge to help you move forward with your own career goals. 684 00:44:39.010 --> 00:44:43.540 So for today's mental fuel, I wanted to pick up on something Laura mentioned about 685 00:44:43.540 --> 00:44:45.730 curiosity being her superpower. 686 00:44:45.730 --> 00:44:51.520 And when I think about curiosity in the context of career change, it's really about 687 00:44:51.520 --> 00:44:56.500 embracing an open, inquisitive mindset where you're more focused on learning, 688 00:44:56.530 --> 00:45:02.500 understanding, and exploring new ideas, skills, or perspectives, rather than getting 689 00:45:02.530 --> 00:45:05.080 too caught up with the outcome of those explorations. 690 00:45:06.310 --> 00:45:13.300 And while I wouldn't say that curiosity is my superpower per se, I've definitely seen how 691 00:45:13.300 --> 00:45:18.640 allowing myself to be curious about things has opened up professional doors that would 692 00:45:18.640 --> 00:45:20.590 have otherwise remained closed or undiscovered. 693 00:45:21.490 --> 00:45:26.440 I'll just share a couple of concrete examples, the first of which opened up a new 694 00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:32.380 career opportunity, and the second related to discovering interesting people. 695 00:45:32.470 --> 00:45:38.200 Many years ago, after I graduated from college, I was living in Hawaii doing a 696 00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:42.910 financial services internship at a company there, and I used to take the same bus to 697 00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:49.180 work every morning, hopping on at a very specific time and seeing the same bus driver 698 00:45:49.180 --> 00:45:50.230 every single day. 699 00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:56.890 I lived in Waikiki, and that bus originated its journey from the bus stop right next door 700 00:45:56.890 --> 00:45:57.970 to my apartment. 701 00:45:57.970 --> 00:45:59.930 So when I hopped on board. 702 00:45:59.930 --> 00:46:04.340 Sometimes I'd be the only one there with the bus driver waiting to depart. 703 00:46:04.370 --> 00:46:11.240 Now, I wouldn't call myself the most gregarious or chattiest person out there, but 704 00:46:11.240 --> 00:46:13.820 I would consider myself fairly friendly. 705 00:46:13.820 --> 00:46:19.640 So I'd chat with this bus driver every morning on my way to work, mostly to learn as 706 00:46:19.640 --> 00:46:21.860 much as I could about life there in Hawaii. 707 00:46:21.890 --> 00:46:27.590 Things to see, things to say or not say, and just the way of life there on the island. 708 00:46:27.770 --> 00:46:29.390 This guy's name was Yama. 709 00:46:29.420 --> 00:46:34.730 He was originally from Samoa, and I do remember that he was always reading the 710 00:46:34.730 --> 00:46:40.820 newspaper at a time when people read newspapers before setting off, so we'd sit 711 00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:45.380 there in the bus and chat about things in the news before he drove off. 712 00:46:45.380 --> 00:46:51.020 And we were chatting one day, and I was telling him about my confusion around what to 713 00:46:51.050 --> 00:46:55.430 do after I finished up that internship, whether I would head back to the US mainland 714 00:46:55.430 --> 00:46:57.170 or to stay there in Hawaii. 715 00:46:57.170 --> 00:47:02.460 And I wasn't quite sure what to do next, and he mentioned something that really planted a 716 00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:08.160 seed in my mind that would kind of forever change the trajectory of my entire career. 717 00:47:08.190 --> 00:47:13.860 He asked me if I ever considered going into radio news journalism. 718 00:47:14.130 --> 00:47:19.290 He knew I'd liked talking about the news, said I had a decent radio voice, and just 719 00:47:19.290 --> 00:47:20.460 posed the question. 720 00:47:21.090 --> 00:47:27.450 To be honest, I hadn't ever thought of going in that direction professionally. 721 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:33.120 But a couple of weeks later, I found myself doing some informational interviewing with 722 00:47:33.120 --> 00:47:37.530 journalists there, one of whom eventually put me in touch with a guy running the Hawaii 723 00:47:37.530 --> 00:47:40.050 Bureau of National Public Radio there. 724 00:47:40.050 --> 00:47:44.400 And the next thing I know, I'm working there as a fill in classical music host, 725 00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:50.280 volunteering and eventually getting a job there, anchoring a daily news program. 726 00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:56.640 And this all started with me just being open to having a conversation with someone who I 727 00:47:56.640 --> 00:48:02.820 never would have imagined could help me come up with an idea of where to take my career, 728 00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:07.680 and also just being open to learning more about journalism opportunities in general, 729 00:48:08.250 --> 00:48:12.660 and just to jump forward a couple of decades and give a more current example now as a 730 00:48:12.660 --> 00:48:17.220 podcast host, where the seeds of this work really date back to that first experience 731 00:48:17.220 --> 00:48:18.840 being on air there in Hawaii. 732 00:48:18.870 --> 00:48:25.200 This entire show has emerged from my ongoing curiosity about how people navigate career 733 00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:32.010 changes. Sometimes listeners ask me how I find guests I feature on this show, and while 734 00:48:32.010 --> 00:48:38.550 there are people who apply to be guests, the vast majority of guests you hear on this show 735 00:48:38.580 --> 00:48:44.340 are just people I've informally crossed paths with, either professionally or 736 00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:50.430 personally. Just being curious about their stories is typically how I find most guests 737 00:48:50.430 --> 00:48:51.570 for this show. 738 00:48:52.170 --> 00:48:56.350 Now, because I'm a public speaker and I speak a lot professionally. 739 00:48:56.350 --> 00:49:03.250 I do plenty of talking myself, so in one on one conversations I tend to do more question 740 00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:05.440 asking than speaking myself. 741 00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:12.790 I try my best when I meet people in general, to ask them about them and how they ended up 742 00:49:12.790 --> 00:49:13.810 where they are today. 743 00:49:13.810 --> 00:49:19.510 Mostly because I'm just curious about it, and you'd be surprised once you probe a bit 744 00:49:19.510 --> 00:49:23.650 and give people some space to share their more personal stories. 745 00:49:23.680 --> 00:49:31.060 They do open up, and you very quickly come to realize a lot of people out there have 746 00:49:31.060 --> 00:49:37.210 gone through some sort of a major career or unexpected life change. 747 00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:44.020 So clearly I've seen curiosity play a role in my own career. 748 00:49:44.050 --> 00:49:48.010 Laura talked about how Curiosity's played a role in hers. 749 00:49:48.130 --> 00:49:49.510 What about you? 750 00:49:50.410 --> 00:49:58.030 When was the last time you just allowed yourself to pursue a new skill simply because 751 00:49:58.030 --> 00:49:59.110 it intrigued you. 752 00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:05.110 When did you last explore a new potential career idea? 753 00:50:05.110 --> 00:50:11.950 By taking a course, talking with someone in that sector, or reading a book or article on 754 00:50:11.950 --> 00:50:18.760 the topic? Or when did you make the effort to reconnect with someone you once met in 755 00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:23.950 passing, whom you felt could just be a nice person to have in your life? 756 00:50:25.090 --> 00:50:32.470 Sometimes just allowing yourself to be open to a new idea, path, or person can plant the 757 00:50:32.470 --> 00:50:37.540 seeds to an entirely new chapter in your career and life. 758 00:50:39.190 --> 00:50:44.110 This takes me to a quote from Elizabeth Gilbert, author of eat, pray, love. 759 00:50:44.680 --> 00:50:48.250 Curiosity is the truth and the Way of Creative Living. 760 00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:53.270 Following that scavenger hunt of curiosity can lead you to amazing places. 761 00:50:55.010 --> 00:51:00.830 So my challenge to you is to dedicate a few minutes this week to just learning something 762 00:51:00.830 --> 00:51:03.470 entirely new that you find intriguing right now. 763 00:51:04.220 --> 00:51:10.100 You could, for example, explore an emerging technology affecting your industry, or learn 764 00:51:10.100 --> 00:51:15.050 more about a skill that someone you admire possesses, or listen to a podcast episode 765 00:51:15.050 --> 00:51:17.480 about a topic you're curious about. 766 00:51:17.660 --> 00:51:22.610 I've been doing a little bit of learning and exploration myself recently, delving deeper 767 00:51:22.610 --> 00:51:28.490 into the world of AI to figure out the role it might play in my own workflow, the careers 768 00:51:28.490 --> 00:51:32.540 of my clients, followers and audiences, and also broader society. 769 00:51:32.570 --> 00:51:37.370 I've actually just finished the book Co-intelligence by Ethan Mallick, which I 770 00:51:37.370 --> 00:51:42.140 would highly recommend if you want to learn more about how to embrace and work with AI in 771 00:51:42.140 --> 00:51:47.210 your career and broader life, think about what step you'll take to allow curiosity to 772 00:51:47.240 --> 00:51:49.310 play a greater role in your career. 773 00:51:49.790 --> 00:51:53.520 If you want to share a step you've recently taken to explore something new in your 774 00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:57.540 career? Have a question you want me to address on the show, or just want to share a 775 00:51:57.540 --> 00:51:59.100 story of career change with others? 776 00:51:59.100 --> 00:52:03.810 I'd love for you to leave me a voicemail with your thoughts at career Relaunch dot net 777 00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:09.480 slash 104, where you can also find a summary of my discussion with Laura and learn more 778 00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:11.640 about her. Again, that's career relaunch. 779 00:52:11.820 --> 00:52:13.290 Net 104. 780 00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:17.850 If you've enjoyed today's show, I'd really appreciate you leaving a positive review and 781 00:52:17.850 --> 00:52:20.430 rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. 782 00:52:20.430 --> 00:52:24.720 And be sure to hit that follow button so you can get the latest episodes of the show 783 00:52:24.720 --> 00:52:26.160 delivered right to your device. 784 00:52:26.190 --> 00:52:30.210 Thanks so much for being part of the career relaunch community, and a special thanks 785 00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:34.200 again to Laura McIntyre for sharing her story with us today from Kent. 786 00:52:34.230 --> 00:52:36.450 This episode was mixed by Liam Mackenzie. 787 00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:40.620 Today's music was curated by Jonathan Rinaldi pole and the career relaunch theme 788 00:52:40.620 --> 00:52:42.330 song was written and performed by electrocardiogram. 789 00:52:43.590 --> 00:52:44.610 I'm Joseph Liu. 790 00:52:44.640 --> 00:52:48.030 Have a great final few weeks of the year and I'll talk to you next time.