1 00:00:01,235 --> 00:00:03,070 At breaking the glass slipper, we believe it 2 00:00:03,070 --> 00:00:05,462 is important to have conversations about women and 3 00:00:05,462 --> 00:00:08,253 issues of intersection feminism within science fiction, fantasy 4 00:00:08,253 --> 00:00:08,731 and horror. 5 00:00:09,463 --> 00:00:11,133 To continue to do so, we need your 6 00:00:11,133 --> 00:00:11,371 help. 7 00:00:12,007 --> 00:00:13,756 Please consider supporting us on Patreon. 8 00:00:15,266 --> 00:00:17,254 During the conversation by following us on Twitter 9 00:00:17,333 --> 00:00:18,287 Facebook and Instagram. 10 00:00:21,016 --> 00:00:22,934 Hello. And welcome to breaking the glass slipper. 11 00:00:23,333 --> 00:00:25,490 I'm Charlotte bond, and I'm Megan Lee. 12 00:00:27,336 --> 00:00:29,008 We have a lot of authors on our 13 00:00:29,008 --> 00:00:31,953 podcast, talking about their books, what inspired them, 14 00:00:32,191 --> 00:00:33,306 how they written and so on. 15 00:00:34,038 --> 00:00:35,872 Quite often they'll get drawn into the Tv 16 00:00:35,872 --> 00:00:38,265 series of films that inspired them, Stars trek. 17 00:00:39,063 --> 00:00:41,615 But a medium, we don't often touch upon 18 00:00:41,615 --> 00:00:44,181 is comics and graphic novels. Even though some 19 00:00:44,181 --> 00:00:46,172 of my favorite short fiction stories are in 20 00:00:46,252 --> 00:00:48,720 Emily Carr through the woods. And those us 21 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,495 who are sad that the cancellation of Firefly 22 00:00:50,552 --> 00:00:52,398 often go and revisit our favorite character, is 23 00:00:52,398 --> 00:00:54,467 in graphic novels such as the gospel according 24 00:00:54,467 --> 00:00:57,171 to Jane, fall guys and my personal favorite 25 00:00:57,171 --> 00:00:58,046 for the Shepherd tail. 26 00:00:59,081 --> 00:01:01,744 So joining us today is Kari Grant, creator 27 00:01:01,804 --> 00:01:03,644 of the worthy chaos redemption comics. 28 00:01:04,204 --> 00:01:06,284 Hello, Chris. Thank you for joining us. Tell 29 00:01:06,284 --> 00:01:08,364 us a little bit about your background and 30 00:01:08,364 --> 00:01:10,819 what worthy chaos redemption is all about 31 00:01:11,177 --> 00:01:13,087 Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate 32 00:01:13,087 --> 00:01:13,166 it. 33 00:01:13,962 --> 00:01:14,462 I 34 00:01:15,632 --> 00:01:16,132 started 35 00:01:16,746 --> 00:01:19,371 writing 17 years ago for fun. 36 00:01:20,420 --> 00:01:21,613 I role play it a lot, 37 00:01:22,170 --> 00:01:25,193 being d. I started as 1 liners, and 38 00:01:25,193 --> 00:01:27,040 and then I kinda built up and I 39 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,959 went from 1 liners to now I can 40 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:30,739 sit and do 3 to 6000 41 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:31,920 words per sitting. 42 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:33,140 And 43 00:01:33,519 --> 00:01:36,335 I wrote this... Story with a c writer 44 00:01:36,335 --> 00:01:38,814 while we role played, and we actually wrote 45 00:01:38,814 --> 00:01:40,015 about 13 novels, 46 00:01:40,895 --> 00:01:42,895 for fun, this is not published or anything. 47 00:01:43,308 --> 00:01:45,695 And so I didn't wanna waste an incredibly 48 00:01:45,695 --> 00:01:47,763 good story that I'm extremely passionate about. So 49 00:01:47,922 --> 00:01:50,484 I decided to release them as comics. And 50 00:01:50,484 --> 00:01:52,479 with no knowledge whatsoever, I jumped into it, 51 00:01:52,639 --> 00:01:53,916 like, a complete moron on and here I 52 00:01:53,916 --> 00:01:54,555 am. So... 53 00:01:55,911 --> 00:01:57,827 Well, when we were chatting before, you said 54 00:01:57,827 --> 00:02:00,558 that series 1 is... 44 issues. And if 55 00:02:00,637 --> 00:02:02,475 Series 2 gets to go ahead. It's 30 56 00:02:02,475 --> 00:02:03,913 issues. So you really have it a lot. 57 00:02:04,393 --> 00:02:05,292 Yeah. So 58 00:02:05,671 --> 00:02:07,004 so serious, well this a pre wall that's 59 00:02:07,124 --> 00:02:08,881 5 issues, and then there's the series 1, 60 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:09,918 which is 44, 61 00:02:10,477 --> 00:02:12,473 which has a great ending. And if we 62 00:02:12,473 --> 00:02:13,750 are gonna continue, I'm gonna have a big 63 00:02:13,750 --> 00:02:15,108 warning that says do not read the epi 64 00:02:15,108 --> 00:02:16,225 log if you like happy endings, 65 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:17,939 and then 66 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:20,000 everything goes to Little hell at the end 67 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,639 of that 1. And series 2 will be 68 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,719 30 issues. Series 3. We're still in the 69 00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:26,375 middle of writing it. We're about 70 00:02:27,054 --> 00:02:28,252 4 books in, 71 00:02:29,131 --> 00:02:29,631 and 72 00:02:30,409 --> 00:02:33,225 then series 4 is where everything 73 00:02:33,618 --> 00:02:34,118 is 74 00:02:34,494 --> 00:02:35,688 war and and 75 00:02:36,404 --> 00:02:39,508 Egyptian gods, fight with Greek gods, with Celtic 76 00:02:39,508 --> 00:02:41,259 gods and it's gonna be a whole war 77 00:02:41,259 --> 00:02:42,931 on the war on the world. 78 00:02:43,582 --> 00:02:45,410 So, yeah. This... It's a really long series. 79 00:02:46,125 --> 00:02:48,271 Definitely doing the first 44. Those are my 80 00:02:48,271 --> 00:02:48,510 goal. 81 00:02:49,464 --> 00:02:52,262 Issue 11 is live now. Kickstarter, but we're 82 00:02:52,262 --> 00:02:54,728 in the middle of drawing 17. So we're 83 00:02:54,728 --> 00:02:56,797 we're moving along, and and I'm making sure 84 00:02:56,797 --> 00:02:58,324 that the series gets done. So I'm a 85 00:02:58,324 --> 00:03:00,400 lot of things within indie creators is that 86 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,257 they think that they're not gonna get their 87 00:03:02,316 --> 00:03:03,513 issue. You know, a lot of people are 88 00:03:03,513 --> 00:03:03,912 like, oh, 89 00:03:04,631 --> 00:03:06,147 the series isn't gonna get done, Why should 90 00:03:06,227 --> 00:03:08,315 I bother buying the book. But this series 91 00:03:08,315 --> 00:03:10,703 is gonna get... Is gonna get done. And, 92 00:03:11,022 --> 00:03:12,056 you don't have to worry about getting your 93 00:03:12,056 --> 00:03:14,842 book because I do not start kickstarter until 94 00:03:14,842 --> 00:03:16,371 the book is act... Actually in my hand, 95 00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:18,045 so it gets shipped at within 7 days 96 00:03:18,045 --> 00:03:20,675 of the kickstarter ending. And we have a 97 00:03:20,675 --> 00:03:23,719 kickstarter every the month. So everyone can They 98 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:25,554 don't have to wait long because we're horrible 99 00:03:25,554 --> 00:03:27,469 and and give cliff hangers every time. So 100 00:03:27,469 --> 00:03:29,464 you don't have to wait that long for 101 00:03:29,464 --> 00:03:30,422 the answer what happens. 102 00:03:31,633 --> 00:03:33,225 I do. Hey. Cliff is that you don't 103 00:03:33,225 --> 00:03:34,577 have to tag around for ages. 104 00:03:35,532 --> 00:03:37,919 Yeah so. But we're, like, summer ones where 105 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:39,908 the show will do something really horrible and 106 00:03:39,908 --> 00:03:41,592 you gotta wait, like, 4 months. I hate 107 00:03:41,592 --> 00:03:42,386 those yeah. 108 00:03:43,577 --> 00:03:45,324 But, I mean, that's a lot of comics. 109 00:03:45,482 --> 00:03:48,182 So have you grown up reading comics and 110 00:03:48,182 --> 00:03:49,691 graphic novels? Is that kind of where your 111 00:03:49,691 --> 00:03:51,540 interest? Started? Or is it a relatively new 112 00:03:51,540 --> 00:03:52,895 thing that has developed with the role playing? 113 00:03:53,055 --> 00:03:54,251 How did you get get into it all? 114 00:03:54,730 --> 00:03:57,362 So originally, my older brother had taken me 115 00:03:57,362 --> 00:03:59,356 when I was a teenager to a kind 116 00:03:59,356 --> 00:04:01,599 bookstore and I got into ghost rider. 117 00:04:02,235 --> 00:04:05,097 I absolutely love ghost rider, and I read 118 00:04:05,097 --> 00:04:08,198 that pretty much that end black black hat 119 00:04:08,198 --> 00:04:09,232 were the 2 that I read the most. 120 00:04:10,443 --> 00:04:12,039 And then I kind of, like, your threw 121 00:04:12,039 --> 00:04:13,716 away from comics, and I didn't really do 122 00:04:13,716 --> 00:04:15,552 anything about it and read him or anything 123 00:04:15,552 --> 00:04:17,388 like that. And then I started playing this 124 00:04:17,388 --> 00:04:19,199 game resident Evil too, and I became up 125 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,240 obsessed with Claire Redfield, which is the main 126 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,319 character, and that's actually who I role replayed 127 00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:25,560 for 17 years. And while I was role 128 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,080 playing her, I got all these ideas for 129 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:27,639 the story, 130 00:04:28,213 --> 00:04:28,690 And 131 00:04:29,088 --> 00:04:31,234 when I... I waited so long, I was 132 00:04:31,234 --> 00:04:32,823 trying to find like the best writer that 133 00:04:32,903 --> 00:04:35,128 It could. Not the best writer. That's actually 134 00:04:35,128 --> 00:04:36,797 she is to me the best writer, but 135 00:04:37,369 --> 00:04:38,801 I I wrote with a lot of amazing 136 00:04:38,801 --> 00:04:41,267 writers, but they just... They all wanted the 137 00:04:41,267 --> 00:04:42,960 story and the role and I just couldn't 138 00:04:43,096 --> 00:04:45,255 find somebody that fit. You know, the character 139 00:04:45,255 --> 00:04:46,469 and all that stuff. So 140 00:04:46,841 --> 00:04:49,244 the the thing that's unique about our story 141 00:04:49,695 --> 00:04:51,915 is that 2 2 people wrote, 142 00:04:52,248 --> 00:04:54,392 the main characters. So I wrote everything, Sarah 143 00:04:54,551 --> 00:04:57,093 Fe. I write the story first. And then 144 00:04:57,093 --> 00:04:58,523 my c writer will write Dr. 145 00:04:59,476 --> 00:05:01,462 And so he'll write that point of view. 146 00:05:02,192 --> 00:05:03,624 In that. So you have 2 chapters of 147 00:05:03,624 --> 00:05:04,579 the same point of view, and then I 148 00:05:04,579 --> 00:05:06,090 put them together for the for the comic. 149 00:05:06,329 --> 00:05:07,920 So when you're reading it, and they seem, 150 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,091 like, totally different people, it's as they are 151 00:05:11,195 --> 00:05:12,543 That's a great way to. I like that 152 00:05:12,543 --> 00:05:15,398 very 2 very distinct voices. Yeah. You could 153 00:05:15,398 --> 00:05:17,380 definitely tell the difference because my character talks 154 00:05:17,380 --> 00:05:19,860 non nonstop and barely thinks. And dr thinks 155 00:05:19,860 --> 00:05:20,977 all the time the talk. So you can 156 00:05:20,977 --> 00:05:21,615 tell which one's which. 157 00:05:22,651 --> 00:05:24,485 Well, that certainly makes it easier for, you 158 00:05:24,485 --> 00:05:27,036 know, trying to write characters with distinct voices 159 00:05:27,036 --> 00:05:27,196 because... 160 00:05:27,848 --> 00:05:28,802 That can be tricky. 161 00:05:29,916 --> 00:05:32,142 Yeah. Because you think you're you're making people 162 00:05:32,142 --> 00:05:34,448 unique and then there's... Sometimes it comes out 163 00:05:34,448 --> 00:05:35,504 in the writing, everything 164 00:05:35,893 --> 00:05:37,718 But we thought that, you know, this wasn't 165 00:05:37,718 --> 00:05:39,860 intentional. We kind of just rh played for 166 00:05:39,860 --> 00:05:41,684 3 years and we just love the the 167 00:05:41,684 --> 00:05:44,399 story and the character so much, and And 168 00:05:44,399 --> 00:05:45,439 when we had a whole, 169 00:05:46,479 --> 00:05:48,000 series, we're were like, this is kind of 170 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,839 too good to waste. And mostly we wanted 171 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,120 the seat to come with to life. So 172 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:51,839 it's mostly for us. 173 00:05:52,494 --> 00:05:54,488 Well, yeah. I mean, if you're not writing 174 00:05:54,488 --> 00:05:56,083 for yourself, then what's the point? 175 00:05:58,396 --> 00:05:58,896 So 176 00:05:59,274 --> 00:06:02,246 I remember doing, like a script writing course 177 00:06:02,878 --> 00:06:03,378 way 178 00:06:03,755 --> 00:06:05,590 way back in the day. Let's pretend. It 179 00:06:05,590 --> 00:06:06,387 wasn't that long ago. 180 00:06:09,019 --> 00:06:11,492 And I remember sort of my teacher. He 181 00:06:11,492 --> 00:06:13,822 he came from the stage and always very, 182 00:06:15,260 --> 00:06:15,760 against 183 00:06:16,219 --> 00:06:18,616 having, you know, stage direction and things like 184 00:06:18,616 --> 00:06:20,703 that, and he said if Shakespeare didn't need 185 00:06:20,703 --> 00:06:22,770 it than you don't, and I'm like, I 186 00:06:22,770 --> 00:06:24,361 think Shakespeare was a little better than me, 187 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:24,997 but thanks. 188 00:06:26,905 --> 00:06:28,432 I put me. Yeah. 189 00:06:29,069 --> 00:06:30,422 And then I did, you know, like, a 190 00:06:30,501 --> 00:06:33,048 Tv sort of script writing, and then he 191 00:06:33,048 --> 00:06:34,561 was saying, you know, do a lot more 192 00:06:34,561 --> 00:06:36,550 of the description, but don't do too much 193 00:06:36,550 --> 00:06:38,556 that you step on, you know, the director's 194 00:06:38,556 --> 00:06:39,750 toes, and that sort of thing. 195 00:06:40,546 --> 00:06:41,502 So with comics, 196 00:06:42,377 --> 00:06:45,483 generally, you have the comic book writer who's 197 00:06:45,483 --> 00:06:46,142 sort of 198 00:06:46,692 --> 00:06:48,521 you write the script and then you get 199 00:06:48,521 --> 00:06:50,510 the artist to come in and draw the 200 00:06:50,510 --> 00:06:52,282 panels. I mean, how much 201 00:06:53,389 --> 00:06:55,709 option or direction do you put in when 202 00:06:55,709 --> 00:06:57,389 you are creating that script? 203 00:06:58,350 --> 00:07:00,750 So mine's very simple. There are many different 204 00:07:00,750 --> 00:07:03,258 kinds of scripts. There's people that'll just give 205 00:07:03,315 --> 00:07:03,815 the 206 00:07:04,587 --> 00:07:06,654 artist, the whole thing to read, and they'll 207 00:07:06,654 --> 00:07:09,119 pick which pages they want, which I is 208 00:07:09,119 --> 00:07:09,755 extremely difficult. 209 00:07:10,644 --> 00:07:12,628 This people that have, like you said, a 210 00:07:12,628 --> 00:07:14,850 complete movie script where this is this and 211 00:07:14,850 --> 00:07:16,279 the panel goes up, and the panel is 212 00:07:16,279 --> 00:07:17,444 looking down and Blah blah 213 00:07:18,202 --> 00:07:20,673 nope. I just do very simple. In fact, 214 00:07:20,992 --> 00:07:23,167 we actually fought in the very beginning because 215 00:07:23,225 --> 00:07:24,740 he had never worked in comics before, and 216 00:07:24,819 --> 00:07:27,303 Had never worked in comics before. And, we 217 00:07:27,303 --> 00:07:29,291 kind of butt heads, you know, like, he 218 00:07:29,291 --> 00:07:31,200 wouldn't follow the script perfectly because he has 219 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,870 a vision and I had a vision. And 220 00:07:32,870 --> 00:07:34,483 for the first issue, we were really 221 00:07:34,794 --> 00:07:36,472 at each other's throats in my... You know, 222 00:07:37,191 --> 00:07:38,389 but I I wanted to make it work 223 00:07:38,389 --> 00:07:39,668 no matter what. So I actually wanna up 224 00:07:39,668 --> 00:07:41,745 compromising originally, I would have 6 to 8. 225 00:07:42,078 --> 00:07:43,983 Panels, which is a comic book is usually 226 00:07:43,983 --> 00:07:45,412 about that much. But what I did was, 227 00:07:45,650 --> 00:07:47,555 I I changed it to 4. So I 228 00:07:47,555 --> 00:07:48,610 do 4 panels 229 00:07:48,984 --> 00:07:50,984 of what needs to be in there. You 230 00:07:50,984 --> 00:07:53,000 know, and then he fills it 231 00:07:53,458 --> 00:07:55,134 does whatever he wants to, and he actually 232 00:07:55,134 --> 00:07:57,288 wants up doing like, sometimes it's just for, 233 00:07:57,448 --> 00:07:59,217 and then sometimes it's like, It could be 234 00:07:59,217 --> 00:08:01,526 up to 12. Like, he'll just add... He 235 00:08:01,526 --> 00:08:03,278 likes to add actions and panels and stuff. 236 00:08:03,517 --> 00:08:05,029 So I compromised a lot and he worked 237 00:08:05,029 --> 00:08:06,781 out amazing. He does absolutely... 238 00:08:07,592 --> 00:08:10,376 Amazing panel work and action scenes and everything 239 00:08:10,376 --> 00:08:13,001 like that. So I'm I'm... I do the 240 00:08:13,001 --> 00:08:14,170 minimal of what 241 00:08:14,846 --> 00:08:16,517 he needs to draw. It and it... That 242 00:08:16,517 --> 00:08:18,506 way, I can have either really big panels 243 00:08:18,506 --> 00:08:20,495 or really cool shaped panels and it it 244 00:08:20,495 --> 00:08:21,131 worked that really well. 245 00:08:22,973 --> 00:08:24,721 Well, I I feel like I've learned so 246 00:08:24,721 --> 00:08:26,468 much about comics in the short amount of 247 00:08:26,468 --> 00:08:28,136 time been talking there is so much detail 248 00:08:28,136 --> 00:08:29,486 there and it's absolutely fascinating. 249 00:08:29,819 --> 00:08:31,168 And obviously, you you work as a huge 250 00:08:31,168 --> 00:08:33,709 team. But I was really interested in, 251 00:08:34,185 --> 00:08:35,773 the relationship you have with the artist and 252 00:08:35,773 --> 00:08:37,854 the kind of dialogue you've got going. And 253 00:08:37,854 --> 00:08:39,290 how much Lie leeway the artist has for 254 00:08:39,290 --> 00:08:41,386 their own vision and whether there any instances 255 00:08:41,604 --> 00:08:43,759 when the artist drawings have kind of come 256 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:45,435 back and changed how you perceive your own 257 00:08:45,435 --> 00:08:47,198 character? Particularly if you've been role playing it. 258 00:08:47,356 --> 00:08:48,547 Is it a case like, no, This is 259 00:08:48,547 --> 00:08:49,817 my role play character. This is how it 260 00:08:49,817 --> 00:08:51,246 is? Or has they ask back and got 261 00:08:51,246 --> 00:08:52,675 it and you've gone oh, Yeah. Actually, I 262 00:08:52,675 --> 00:08:53,152 quite like that. 263 00:08:54,916 --> 00:08:57,144 Actually, yeah. A couple of times, he's done 264 00:08:57,144 --> 00:08:57,644 something 265 00:08:58,099 --> 00:09:00,247 where I was like, That wasn't the vision 266 00:09:00,327 --> 00:09:02,236 I had, but I kinda liked it. 267 00:09:02,968 --> 00:09:05,598 It doesn't change the emotions of the characters 268 00:09:05,598 --> 00:09:07,750 or anything. We're very, very particular about that. 269 00:09:08,388 --> 00:09:10,482 But maybe a scene or or how 270 00:09:11,114 --> 00:09:13,112 she fights or something because my character's... You 271 00:09:13,112 --> 00:09:14,710 know, she's kind of a badass ass, and 272 00:09:15,429 --> 00:09:16,947 she does a lot a lot of fighting, 273 00:09:17,347 --> 00:09:18,785 and he kinda does his own little spin 274 00:09:18,785 --> 00:09:21,107 on it. Which is nice because she has 275 00:09:21,107 --> 00:09:23,331 some really cool moves and the way he 276 00:09:23,331 --> 00:09:25,079 draws it is very action packed. So he 277 00:09:25,079 --> 00:09:26,826 has a lot of leeway to do what 278 00:09:26,826 --> 00:09:28,597 he wants when it comes to background 279 00:09:29,384 --> 00:09:29,884 or 280 00:09:30,585 --> 00:09:32,024 the action that they take and something like 281 00:09:32,024 --> 00:09:32,745 that expressions. 282 00:09:33,384 --> 00:09:35,144 I'm the 1 that says, okay, Dr raven 283 00:09:35,144 --> 00:09:37,065 looks... Mostly Dr looks miserable well time or 284 00:09:37,225 --> 00:09:37,304 Mad. 285 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,279 But, you know, she'll a concerned or upset 286 00:09:40,279 --> 00:09:41,879 or Mad or whatever. So I do add 287 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:43,800 those in there. But as far as action, 288 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,879 he has a lot more leeway because he 289 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:47,566 can explain it more than I ever could. 290 00:09:47,725 --> 00:09:48,916 You know I, sometimes I just write. Okay. 291 00:09:49,075 --> 00:09:49,552 She beats them up. 292 00:09:50,505 --> 00:09:52,332 And then you know, he could do what 293 00:09:52,332 --> 00:09:54,477 he wants with that, and it works very 294 00:09:54,477 --> 00:09:56,065 well. So... And she looks badass. 295 00:09:56,718 --> 00:09:57,994 She does indeed. I really like look for 296 00:09:57,994 --> 00:09:59,191 your comic. It's fantastic. 297 00:10:00,068 --> 00:10:01,424 Wait do you see your fight in that 298 00:10:01,424 --> 00:10:02,780 issue 4. I don't know if he's read 299 00:10:02,780 --> 00:10:04,136 issue for, but I haven't got that far 300 00:10:04,136 --> 00:10:07,123 yet. No. No. We're there we're they're surrounded 301 00:10:07,182 --> 00:10:09,654 by some bar guys and and 302 00:10:10,133 --> 00:10:11,568 that first, she's not allowed to fight, and 303 00:10:11,568 --> 00:10:13,483 then, you know, she's able to and she 304 00:10:13,483 --> 00:10:14,519 just kicks her ass. So... 305 00:10:16,289 --> 00:10:18,687 So obviously, you know, in the traditional comics, 306 00:10:18,847 --> 00:10:21,244 you know, we think about, you know, drawing 307 00:10:21,244 --> 00:10:23,242 something on paper, and then someone will pencil 308 00:10:23,242 --> 00:10:24,920 in the dialogue, and then you have someone 309 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,638 ink in the pub. Dialogue. But in this 310 00:10:27,638 --> 00:10:29,938 day in age, I suppose that a lot 311 00:10:29,938 --> 00:10:31,311 of this is done digitally. 312 00:10:32,398 --> 00:10:33,509 Are you, you know, 313 00:10:34,318 --> 00:10:37,181 creating these comics digitally? Or are you doing 314 00:10:37,181 --> 00:10:38,396 a more traditional 315 00:10:39,168 --> 00:10:40,441 way? And do you know if, like, 316 00:10:41,157 --> 00:10:43,224 how much this is changed in the industry? 317 00:10:44,431 --> 00:10:45,859 Oh, it's all digital. Yeah. 318 00:10:46,890 --> 00:10:49,587 I actually preferred digital. We just had this 319 00:10:50,142 --> 00:10:51,990 discussion on Facebook because 320 00:10:52,538 --> 00:10:54,770 Traditional is really nice. And when I I 321 00:10:54,770 --> 00:10:56,523 have an obsession with my characters where if 322 00:10:56,523 --> 00:10:57,958 there's an original art, I have to own 323 00:10:57,958 --> 00:10:59,472 it. And if I can't afford it, I 324 00:10:59,472 --> 00:11:01,713 won't let the the artist do the cover 325 00:11:01,713 --> 00:11:03,222 because I need to. It's just a really 326 00:11:03,222 --> 00:11:05,841 weird obsession of mine. So I do have 327 00:11:05,841 --> 00:11:07,747 some original covers, but when it comes to 328 00:11:07,747 --> 00:11:10,791 this... Comic itself. Everything's digital, which is nice 329 00:11:10,791 --> 00:11:12,067 because if there's a mistake or you have 330 00:11:12,067 --> 00:11:13,742 to redo something or move something. You know, 331 00:11:13,902 --> 00:11:15,258 it's a lot easier to do that. Plus 332 00:11:15,258 --> 00:11:17,013 it's a lot faster, you know, it's easier 333 00:11:17,013 --> 00:11:18,861 on the wrist and and all that stuff, 334 00:11:18,941 --> 00:11:20,614 and it's, know not a lot of paper, 335 00:11:20,773 --> 00:11:22,048 and I don't have the pay and art. 336 00:11:22,207 --> 00:11:24,518 So everything's digital, including the lettering, the coloring, 337 00:11:24,597 --> 00:11:26,270 the inking. I, he doesn't even pencil anymore. 338 00:11:26,430 --> 00:11:27,306 He goes straight to inking, 339 00:11:28,199 --> 00:11:30,756 which is nice and and I I kinda 340 00:11:30,756 --> 00:11:32,754 miss seeing the sketch out, You know, he 341 00:11:32,754 --> 00:11:35,151 used to, like, for our hard cover book 342 00:11:35,151 --> 00:11:36,510 2, you can see the sketch. 343 00:11:37,241 --> 00:11:39,867 From from a very rough draft to a 344 00:11:39,867 --> 00:11:41,697 little bit more enhanced to the inking. But, 345 00:11:41,776 --> 00:11:44,418 you know, now that we're an issue 17. 346 00:11:44,578 --> 00:11:45,854 He's like, I'm just gonna go straight and 347 00:11:45,854 --> 00:11:47,211 dink it, and he does, and he does 348 00:11:47,211 --> 00:11:48,488 it amazing and it's faster. 349 00:11:49,206 --> 00:11:51,041 But sometimes I miss those little those little 350 00:11:51,041 --> 00:11:51,201 details. 351 00:11:52,091 --> 00:11:54,711 But, yeah, everything's digital and it's it's so 352 00:11:54,711 --> 00:11:57,276 much easier. Like, I understand why people do 353 00:11:57,490 --> 00:11:58,467 traditional, but, 354 00:11:58,999 --> 00:12:00,587 man, when you just... I get 2 pages. 355 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:02,754 I get 6 pages a week about, and 356 00:12:02,913 --> 00:12:04,051 I love it. So 357 00:12:04,587 --> 00:12:06,262 and Fantastic, I love that the issue 17. 358 00:12:06,501 --> 00:12:08,255 It's just straight inking. None of this pencil 359 00:12:08,255 --> 00:12:10,343 rubbish. Just, yep. Know what I'm doing. The 360 00:12:10,343 --> 00:12:11,458 line sorted. X. Yeah. 361 00:12:12,812 --> 00:12:14,644 Yeah. Actually, since issue 3, 362 00:12:15,361 --> 00:12:16,476 the first thing you say when he start 363 00:12:16,556 --> 00:12:17,751 Issue 3 is like, okay. I know these 364 00:12:17,751 --> 00:12:19,674 characters, I know we're the... Got what they're 365 00:12:19,674 --> 00:12:20,784 gonna do most of the time and all 366 00:12:20,784 --> 00:12:22,764 that stuff. I still surprise him though, and 367 00:12:22,764 --> 00:12:24,745 then he doesn't like spoilers, and he gets 368 00:12:24,745 --> 00:12:25,855 upset, like, don't tell me. And I was, 369 00:12:25,934 --> 00:12:27,061 really, we but 370 00:12:27,698 --> 00:12:29,211 he he knows them pretty well. On. And 371 00:12:29,211 --> 00:12:31,521 he's just... He's pretty obsessed with it just 372 00:12:31,521 --> 00:12:33,990 like us. You know, like, if we we 373 00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:36,793 had a time where... He wasn't drawing from 374 00:12:36,953 --> 00:12:39,105 Thursday to Sunday. And he gets paid the 375 00:12:39,105 --> 00:12:39,903 same amount of time. 376 00:12:40,540 --> 00:12:42,055 So he said to me, I can't stand 377 00:12:42,055 --> 00:12:43,570 this 4 day break draw on this comic. 378 00:12:43,823 --> 00:12:45,252 He has other comics to draw. So it 379 00:12:45,252 --> 00:12:46,205 was just funny to hear him say that. 380 00:12:46,364 --> 00:12:47,238 So now he has to draw on Monday 381 00:12:47,317 --> 00:12:48,826 Wednesday Friday. So there's not a big gap. 382 00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:51,128 So it's it's kinda cool that he's he 383 00:12:51,128 --> 00:12:52,320 loves drawing it as much as we love 384 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,009 seeing it. And 385 00:12:54,006 --> 00:12:55,679 sounds like a really brilliant team you've got 386 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:55,759 there. 387 00:12:57,034 --> 00:12:58,946 I mean, we've been talking a lot about 388 00:12:59,344 --> 00:13:01,667 Craft, and I really really have just learnt 389 00:13:01,667 --> 00:13:03,177 so much, but I do kinda want to 390 00:13:03,177 --> 00:13:05,958 ask about horror comics and graphic novels in 391 00:13:05,958 --> 00:13:06,355 particular. 392 00:13:07,149 --> 00:13:08,659 As a horror writing myself, obviously, 393 00:13:09,549 --> 00:13:12,661 I use descriptions, involving the senses, scenery, 394 00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:15,215 feelings, all that kind kinda. I've got so 395 00:13:15,215 --> 00:13:16,731 many words I can employ. And when we 396 00:13:16,731 --> 00:13:16,891 have, 397 00:13:17,703 --> 00:13:20,561 horror films, have music sound and lighting. So 398 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,308 I was wondering when you come to build 399 00:13:22,308 --> 00:13:23,046 a horror 400 00:13:23,499 --> 00:13:25,880 scene or an element horror within your comic 401 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,201 graphic novel. What elements do you use to 402 00:13:28,201 --> 00:13:30,587 build tension and the atmosphere and to create 403 00:13:30,587 --> 00:13:32,258 the the sort of f on of fear? 404 00:13:32,576 --> 00:13:33,553 What what elements 405 00:13:33,863 --> 00:13:36,009 do you employ that some that aren't available 406 00:13:36,009 --> 00:13:37,519 to us humble authors? 407 00:13:39,824 --> 00:13:41,746 So some of the things I like, for 408 00:13:41,746 --> 00:13:44,604 example, I actually just did a panel where 409 00:13:44,604 --> 00:13:46,295 you see this giant cent, 410 00:13:46,986 --> 00:13:48,653 you know, kind of... I know if you 411 00:13:48,653 --> 00:13:51,051 know Cent is usually blind. So it's kind 412 00:13:51,051 --> 00:13:53,142 of touching his face. And then 413 00:13:54,075 --> 00:13:55,904 you you don't realize that something is it's 414 00:13:55,904 --> 00:13:57,575 this on the side. You could see something 415 00:13:57,575 --> 00:13:58,689 appear on the side of the panel. We're 416 00:13:58,689 --> 00:14:00,376 not sure it was. And then in the 417 00:14:00,376 --> 00:14:02,368 next panel, you realized that it was these 418 00:14:02,368 --> 00:14:05,076 giant hands are just totally demolished this 419 00:14:06,033 --> 00:14:07,706 cent pete, and the guts and everything went 420 00:14:07,706 --> 00:14:08,901 all over the the guy that was in 421 00:14:08,901 --> 00:14:10,428 front of it. So it's kind of like 422 00:14:10,428 --> 00:14:11,940 that kind of adding little things in the 423 00:14:11,940 --> 00:14:14,408 background in issue 1. You probably didn't even 424 00:14:14,408 --> 00:14:16,079 notice this, but there's 2 things in the 425 00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:19,601 background. So 1 when they first are... They 426 00:14:19,601 --> 00:14:22,074 first see each other in the street, there's 427 00:14:22,074 --> 00:14:24,147 actually an alligator in the sewer, which is 428 00:14:24,147 --> 00:14:25,663 1 of my easter eggs because that's actually 429 00:14:25,663 --> 00:14:27,509 it started the whole things. Alligator in consumer. 430 00:14:27,986 --> 00:14:29,972 And then I think at the next page, 431 00:14:30,211 --> 00:14:32,038 if you look literally all the way in 432 00:14:32,038 --> 00:14:34,677 the back, there's this tiny an cloud and 433 00:14:34,677 --> 00:14:36,910 these tiny shadows, and those are the ghosts 434 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:38,903 that are about to approach. So we plan 435 00:14:38,903 --> 00:14:40,577 things that you could see in the background, 436 00:14:40,816 --> 00:14:43,143 but, a lot of people miss them, But, 437 00:14:43,462 --> 00:14:43,962 every 438 00:14:44,339 --> 00:14:45,774 issue has an Easter egg, by the way, 439 00:14:45,933 --> 00:14:46,412 of a horror, 440 00:14:47,448 --> 00:14:48,485 Nightmare Elm street, 441 00:14:49,442 --> 00:14:51,037 Friday the thirteenth, they're they're all in the 442 00:14:51,037 --> 00:14:51,355 backgrounds. 443 00:14:52,249 --> 00:14:54,486 So there are little details there. But for 444 00:14:55,924 --> 00:14:58,001 suspense and stuff, usually, it's kind of like 445 00:14:58,001 --> 00:14:59,040 what's coming or... 446 00:14:59,774 --> 00:15:01,928 You know, what... What's kind of behind them 447 00:15:01,928 --> 00:15:03,285 that they don't see what you see. And 448 00:15:03,285 --> 00:15:04,801 you know it's coming, but you can't... Just 449 00:15:04,801 --> 00:15:06,237 like in a movie. You can't warn them 450 00:15:06,237 --> 00:15:08,404 that they're right there. So that's that's kinda 451 00:15:08,404 --> 00:15:09,917 how we do it by just... And we 452 00:15:09,917 --> 00:15:12,145 do have sounds, you know, like moan and 453 00:15:12,145 --> 00:15:14,533 groan that my my lovely letter adds in 454 00:15:14,533 --> 00:15:14,931 wonderfully. 455 00:15:15,424 --> 00:15:16,855 So, yeah, It's not it's not as 456 00:15:17,571 --> 00:15:19,558 a movie is a little bit easier. You 457 00:15:19,558 --> 00:15:21,228 just have the creepy music. So it's a 458 00:15:21,228 --> 00:15:23,429 little bit harder to draw in suspense. So 459 00:15:23,789 --> 00:15:25,544 and jump scares, but it's it's kinda nice 460 00:15:25,544 --> 00:15:26,661 when you can figure out to do it 461 00:15:26,661 --> 00:15:26,980 properly. 462 00:15:28,257 --> 00:15:31,071 1 of the things I found amazing in 463 00:15:31,384 --> 00:15:34,734 Adam Neville horror novel, the ritual was that 464 00:15:34,734 --> 00:15:36,488 you managed to put a jump scare in 465 00:15:36,488 --> 00:15:38,403 by you were reading something then you turned 466 00:15:38,403 --> 00:15:40,179 a page and suddenly it was something massively 467 00:15:40,556 --> 00:15:40,875 unexpected. 468 00:15:41,447 --> 00:15:42,800 And I keep meaning to ask when I 469 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,391 came around whether or not it was deliberate 470 00:15:44,391 --> 00:15:45,345 or it was just the way it all 471 00:15:45,345 --> 00:15:47,175 felt. Would it occurs to me that when 472 00:15:47,175 --> 00:15:49,415 it comes to comics and graphic novels. It 473 00:15:49,415 --> 00:15:51,481 is possible to suddenly do a a jump 474 00:15:51,481 --> 00:15:52,990 scare and kind of open the comic and 475 00:15:52,990 --> 00:15:54,420 turn the page and there's something there. Is 476 00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:56,168 that something you employed or is it just 477 00:15:56,168 --> 00:15:56,898 2 tech Kate. 478 00:15:57,932 --> 00:16:00,079 No. We we we love Cliche. Sometimes. 479 00:16:00,954 --> 00:16:02,647 Yeah. There's a couple of it where 480 00:16:03,022 --> 00:16:05,504 there's a monster there, and you don't you 481 00:16:05,504 --> 00:16:07,498 know, you're... It's about to kill somebody and 482 00:16:07,498 --> 00:16:08,854 then all of a sudden, the next page 483 00:16:08,854 --> 00:16:11,725 this giant axe comes down, and you're kind 484 00:16:11,725 --> 00:16:12,921 of, like, what the hell has happened. And 485 00:16:12,921 --> 00:16:14,836 then you realize it's an actually bigger monster. 486 00:16:15,330 --> 00:16:17,170 So does I like it. Bigger monster of 487 00:16:17,170 --> 00:16:19,889 an. Excellence. Yeah. Diet ax that comes down. 488 00:16:20,850 --> 00:16:22,370 So we do we do like to have 489 00:16:22,370 --> 00:16:25,178 those little things and eat. Fortunately, when you... 490 00:16:25,894 --> 00:16:26,293 I don't know... 491 00:16:27,010 --> 00:16:27,966 I'm sure it's a way when you write 492 00:16:27,966 --> 00:16:28,683 the novels. I... 493 00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:31,723 When I wrote the novels, they weren't really 494 00:16:31,723 --> 00:16:33,711 formatted. So I wouldn't have known what page 495 00:16:33,711 --> 00:16:34,904 would be next if you did that on 496 00:16:34,904 --> 00:16:36,892 I'm purpose. But fortunately, with comics, we do 497 00:16:36,892 --> 00:16:38,880 plan it where there's 2 things we like 498 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,152 to plan. If there's a jump scare, 499 00:16:40,724 --> 00:16:41,921 or there's as a cliff hanger. 500 00:16:43,038 --> 00:16:44,713 We're very famous for Cliff hangers as much 501 00:16:44,713 --> 00:16:46,069 as people might hate and love them at 502 00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:46,548 the same time. 503 00:16:47,425 --> 00:16:49,268 But we plan them so that you know 504 00:16:49,268 --> 00:16:50,221 when you get to the last page you 505 00:16:50,221 --> 00:16:51,094 you're like, what the hell. 506 00:16:52,602 --> 00:16:54,587 I just had somebody that read issue 11. 507 00:16:54,746 --> 00:16:56,351 Yell. At me. Plan because of the ending, 508 00:16:56,749 --> 00:16:58,341 which I can't spoil because it's it's it's 509 00:16:58,341 --> 00:16:59,217 on there now, But, 510 00:16:59,854 --> 00:17:01,605 they they they get so invested in our 511 00:17:01,605 --> 00:17:03,538 characters, which is such a compliment 512 00:17:04,088 --> 00:17:05,997 And I even have my letter or get 513 00:17:05,997 --> 00:17:07,826 scared because of 1 of our characters Chat, 514 00:17:07,986 --> 00:17:09,576 which you won't even see so issue 10. 515 00:17:10,292 --> 00:17:12,243 He's in love Chad. He's the cutest little 516 00:17:12,382 --> 00:17:14,140 vampire chameleon bat. He's just like, he'll be 517 00:17:14,140 --> 00:17:15,019 okay. Right? I was like, 518 00:17:16,457 --> 00:17:16,936 alright. Sure. 519 00:17:18,867 --> 00:17:20,143 I like this insanity there. 520 00:17:21,259 --> 00:17:22,477 Fine. Yeah 521 00:17:23,093 --> 00:17:25,326 I mean, you said that you likely share. 522 00:17:25,645 --> 00:17:27,160 So this is the perfect. 523 00:17:27,733 --> 00:17:30,865 Little s into asking about tropes, 524 00:17:32,518 --> 00:17:35,468 because we love tropes. And, you know, they 525 00:17:35,468 --> 00:17:36,606 they get a bad name 526 00:17:37,317 --> 00:17:38,830 but obviously, on this podcast, you know, as 527 00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:41,242 Charlotte mentioned, we tend to talk more 528 00:17:42,176 --> 00:17:43,531 novels, short stories, 529 00:17:44,407 --> 00:17:47,606 sometimes film and television, but comics really get 530 00:17:47,606 --> 00:17:49,060 a look in. And, 531 00:17:49,435 --> 00:17:51,741 you know, we've get things like the final 532 00:17:51,741 --> 00:17:53,036 girl trope and 533 00:17:53,808 --> 00:17:55,739 things that we're familiar with seeing 534 00:17:56,208 --> 00:17:58,117 in these other mediums? I mean, are there 535 00:17:58,117 --> 00:18:00,422 the same kinds of tropes in horror comics 536 00:18:00,422 --> 00:18:03,126 or like it, does anything differ because of 537 00:18:03,126 --> 00:18:03,864 the format 538 00:18:05,929 --> 00:18:08,241 it's they're they're there. You know, we have 539 00:18:09,357 --> 00:18:12,228 you know, some sequences that can be a 540 00:18:12,228 --> 00:18:13,026 dream sequence. 541 00:18:13,598 --> 00:18:15,587 And everyone hates them and and but then 542 00:18:15,587 --> 00:18:16,542 they they love them at the same time. 543 00:18:16,701 --> 00:18:17,973 You know, You're like, This a dream. Is 544 00:18:17,973 --> 00:18:19,405 this not a dream. We have a couple 545 00:18:19,405 --> 00:18:19,564 of... 546 00:18:20,613 --> 00:18:22,993 Hits in the background. Like, they're... In in 547 00:18:22,993 --> 00:18:25,691 1 through 7, there's something that's going on 548 00:18:25,691 --> 00:18:27,912 in the background that if you don't realize 549 00:18:27,912 --> 00:18:28,547 what's happening. 550 00:18:28,959 --> 00:18:30,397 You're like, what the hell is going on. 551 00:18:31,116 --> 00:18:32,555 And then when you figure it out on 552 00:18:32,555 --> 00:18:34,073 issue 7, you're like, holy crap, Then you 553 00:18:34,073 --> 00:18:35,031 gotta go back and read the rest because 554 00:18:35,031 --> 00:18:36,150 you're like, oh, that's what was happening. 555 00:18:36,882 --> 00:18:38,076 So we do like to have, like, the, 556 00:18:38,155 --> 00:18:40,702 you know, things like that, like, little bit 557 00:18:40,702 --> 00:18:42,533 cliche where it's like, it could be a 558 00:18:42,533 --> 00:18:43,806 dream, more trick. 559 00:18:44,378 --> 00:18:45,811 I think we had 1 that was a 560 00:18:45,811 --> 00:18:47,323 a dream where 561 00:18:47,801 --> 00:18:49,791 it was very brief, but, like, you think 562 00:18:49,791 --> 00:18:51,622 somebody was killed or something and they actually 563 00:18:51,622 --> 00:18:51,781 weren't. 564 00:18:53,389 --> 00:18:55,778 Things like that. And we love the circa 565 00:18:55,778 --> 00:18:57,690 sarcastic nature. We have a lot of sarcastic 566 00:18:57,690 --> 00:18:59,602 ness and all that fun stuff. We have 567 00:18:59,602 --> 00:19:01,687 the vampires and ours, those aren't ours are 568 00:19:01,687 --> 00:19:03,278 called clutter and have a lot more rules 569 00:19:03,278 --> 00:19:04,789 that I probably shouldn't take the time to 570 00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:04,948 explain. 571 00:19:06,142 --> 00:19:07,573 But, yeah, we we do like to have 572 00:19:07,573 --> 00:19:08,232 the little 573 00:19:08,861 --> 00:19:10,851 tropes. And, you know, she she says the 574 00:19:10,851 --> 00:19:13,557 sarcastic things where she poke out the eye 575 00:19:13,557 --> 00:19:15,308 of a of a zombie. And She's just, 576 00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:16,740 like, it's all fun and games until you 577 00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:18,187 lose an eye. You know, she likes the 578 00:19:18,187 --> 00:19:19,935 the the cliche lines that you hear on 579 00:19:19,935 --> 00:19:20,730 the movies, you know, 580 00:19:21,763 --> 00:19:23,749 catch phrases and stuff like that. So, yeah. 581 00:19:23,908 --> 00:19:25,674 We like to add those in. The Are 582 00:19:25,674 --> 00:19:28,231 there any tropes that you try to avoid? 583 00:19:28,550 --> 00:19:31,747 Because obviously, there are some problematic ones or, 584 00:19:31,827 --> 00:19:33,445 you know, over the years maybe 585 00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:36,339 certain tropes have been used to 586 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:38,159 kill off the... 587 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:41,039 Any gay characters? Or, you know, these kinds 588 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:42,720 of things. I mean, are there any specific 589 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,069 tropes, that you try to avoid including 590 00:19:45,525 --> 00:19:46,025 or 591 00:19:46,481 --> 00:19:48,973 if you kind of wanna talk about 592 00:19:49,828 --> 00:19:52,000 overturn them. I mean, that sometimes people do 593 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,839 like to include them, but sort of flip 594 00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:54,559 them on their head. 595 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,179 Yeah. We did 596 00:19:58,973 --> 00:20:00,188 we want to avoid 597 00:20:00,721 --> 00:20:01,278 the whole, 598 00:20:01,835 --> 00:20:03,981 it's a dream thing, but we kinda did 599 00:20:03,981 --> 00:20:04,481 something 600 00:20:05,491 --> 00:20:07,876 around it that was similar to it, but... 601 00:20:08,115 --> 00:20:09,486 So it wasn't. And I can't explain it, 602 00:20:09,725 --> 00:20:10,603 otherwise, it'll it'll 603 00:20:11,161 --> 00:20:12,358 it'll give it away. But 604 00:20:12,996 --> 00:20:14,273 we didn't wanna do that. All we woke 605 00:20:14,273 --> 00:20:16,601 up and everything's fine. You know, or it 606 00:20:16,601 --> 00:20:18,118 ever really happened or any of that. So 607 00:20:18,118 --> 00:20:19,714 we tried to avoid that. That was a 608 00:20:19,714 --> 00:20:21,150 big 1 because we didn't want people to 609 00:20:21,150 --> 00:20:22,347 kill us and be like, you know, that 610 00:20:22,347 --> 00:20:23,066 was a whole dream, 611 00:20:23,718 --> 00:20:25,861 but we did something that was a twist 612 00:20:25,861 --> 00:20:26,258 on it, 613 00:20:27,052 --> 00:20:28,720 where you think that it might be a 614 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,775 dream, and 615 00:20:30,307 --> 00:20:31,835 you think you know what's happened happening or 616 00:20:31,835 --> 00:20:33,835 what's gonna happen and then we kind of 617 00:20:33,835 --> 00:20:35,514 turned it around and been like, no. That's 618 00:20:35,514 --> 00:20:37,194 not what we did. So, yeah. We did 619 00:20:37,194 --> 00:20:38,794 we did something like that. That's actually a 620 00:20:38,794 --> 00:20:40,966 big trophy Is the the wake up and 621 00:20:40,966 --> 00:20:42,474 it's a dream thing, because it's so easy 622 00:20:42,474 --> 00:20:44,377 to do that. You know? And we don't 623 00:20:44,377 --> 00:20:46,440 we don't wanna just kill somebody off and 624 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:46,940 then 625 00:20:47,804 --> 00:20:48,839 You know I don't know if you've guys 626 00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:49,976 ever seen the show supernatural. 627 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:52,422 Everyone that dies pretty much comes back. And 628 00:20:52,422 --> 00:20:53,855 we are fully onto that because we are 629 00:20:53,855 --> 00:20:55,900 very supernatural. So you kind of know... You 630 00:20:56,579 --> 00:20:58,656 which characters coming back and which and which 631 00:20:58,656 --> 00:21:01,053 wouldn't. And I don't like to be too 632 00:21:01,053 --> 00:21:02,571 mean, but we did do 633 00:21:04,182 --> 00:21:07,448 you know, a t on, time travel. So 634 00:21:07,448 --> 00:21:09,200 we have that 1 which I actually hate 635 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:09,939 time travel 636 00:21:10,554 --> 00:21:12,386 in movies, but I used it anyway because 637 00:21:12,466 --> 00:21:12,839 I wanted to 638 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,279 So that's a big intro for where it's 639 00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:16,640 like, oh, we'll just we'll go back in 640 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,400 time and fix it. So, yeah. We do 641 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,599 we do have that later on. 642 00:21:20,653 --> 00:21:21,765 I have to say I do like me 643 00:21:21,765 --> 00:21:23,195 a bit supernatural natural. And I know what 644 00:21:23,195 --> 00:21:25,340 you mean about the favorite characters come back 645 00:21:25,340 --> 00:21:27,326 and and things like that. So the best 646 00:21:27,326 --> 00:21:30,284 part. Walking dead is like the opposite of 647 00:21:30,284 --> 00:21:32,591 supernatural. It's like, they kill of everybody and 648 00:21:32,989 --> 00:21:35,733 Met then your character's gone. And I loved 649 00:21:35,791 --> 00:21:37,945 walking dead, but I'm still mad about Glenn, 650 00:21:38,184 --> 00:21:40,018 and I I hated certain things that happened. 651 00:21:40,178 --> 00:21:42,650 So, yeah. I I can I can do 652 00:21:42,650 --> 00:21:43,847 the things that I want in my story? 653 00:21:45,458 --> 00:21:47,455 After admit with... The bit where Maggie kills 654 00:21:47,455 --> 00:21:49,133 1 of the girls. Oh, my god. I 655 00:21:49,133 --> 00:21:50,891 sold my heart out with that. I don't 656 00:21:50,891 --> 00:21:52,501 know if you remember that 1. But it 657 00:21:52,501 --> 00:21:53,001 was 658 00:21:53,535 --> 00:21:56,001 care. Remember Carol. Sorry Enough my flowers. 659 00:21:56,717 --> 00:21:58,012 Yeah. Oh my gosh. 660 00:21:58,387 --> 00:22:00,160 Yeah. That was that was a that was 661 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,039 a bit harsh. Yeah. Yeah. That was Love 662 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,680 Carol. I mean, she turned into... She's my... 663 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,853 I think she had the biggest growth. That's 664 00:22:07,853 --> 00:22:10,399 to go tangent. Yes. Yes. She Went from 665 00:22:10,399 --> 00:22:11,593 this, I'm 666 00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:14,457 this was woman who will do as my 667 00:22:14,457 --> 00:22:16,787 husband says, to. I'm gonna kill everybody. So 668 00:22:17,019 --> 00:22:18,614 you know, there's some growth there. 669 00:22:19,571 --> 00:22:21,007 So I was gonna ask, 670 00:22:21,884 --> 00:22:24,219 you've obviously written, like you say some novels 671 00:22:24,277 --> 00:22:24,777 previously. 672 00:22:25,234 --> 00:22:26,351 And you've done this comic. 673 00:22:27,003 --> 00:22:28,139 I just wondered given 674 00:22:28,513 --> 00:22:31,237 how comics and graphic novels are a huge 675 00:22:31,452 --> 00:22:33,120 visual medium as much as they are sort 676 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,366 of written. And whether you would ever think 677 00:22:35,366 --> 00:22:37,840 of diversifying into making a little mini horror 678 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,516 film or a little mini horror shorts. She 679 00:22:39,516 --> 00:22:41,511 only find those amazing ones on on Youtube, 680 00:22:41,671 --> 00:22:44,482 like, 5 minutes and they're absolutely terrifying. I 681 00:22:44,482 --> 00:22:46,720 love what she weighs. Or even something longer, 682 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,158 you know, like a little series, and I 683 00:22:48,158 --> 00:22:50,316 know it has a huge amount of of 684 00:22:50,316 --> 00:22:50,816 different 685 00:22:51,847 --> 00:22:53,514 talents and you have to to get active 686 00:22:53,514 --> 00:22:54,625 in and you have to get lighting and 687 00:22:54,625 --> 00:22:55,895 all this kind of thing. But it does 688 00:22:55,895 --> 00:22:58,515 strike me that the way you write the 689 00:22:58,515 --> 00:23:00,364 comics and just how 690 00:23:00,753 --> 00:23:02,342 striking the images are. Have you ever thought 691 00:23:02,342 --> 00:23:03,455 you know what? I can't like to do 692 00:23:03,455 --> 00:23:03,931 a horror. 693 00:23:04,964 --> 00:23:05,282 I... 694 00:23:05,918 --> 00:23:08,143 Actually, my dream is to have it be 695 00:23:08,143 --> 00:23:09,335 a rated... 696 00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:11,108 Violent animated series. 697 00:23:11,747 --> 00:23:12,466 Oh cool. 698 00:23:13,106 --> 00:23:14,864 I think you could do so much with 699 00:23:14,864 --> 00:23:15,104 it. 700 00:23:15,823 --> 00:23:17,181 It's a very long series. I don't have 701 00:23:17,181 --> 00:23:19,592 to worry about the actors aging, for and 702 00:23:19,991 --> 00:23:21,586 you could do things that you normally couldn't 703 00:23:21,586 --> 00:23:23,260 do. I think the... Like you said it's 704 00:23:23,260 --> 00:23:25,892 very visual, and sometimes it's lost, you know, 705 00:23:26,051 --> 00:23:28,778 in in in live action, And I love 706 00:23:28,778 --> 00:23:29,976 live action. Don't get me wrong. 707 00:23:30,934 --> 00:23:33,169 I have favorite movies and But I'm very 708 00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:36,043 full of emotion and, you know, things like 709 00:23:36,043 --> 00:23:37,400 that. So I think I would love... 710 00:23:37,974 --> 00:23:40,289 To have that that emotion and the animated 711 00:23:40,289 --> 00:23:42,604 characters and and being able to see the 712 00:23:42,604 --> 00:23:44,041 monsters just come to life and not worry 713 00:23:44,041 --> 00:23:45,180 about Cheesy Cgi 714 00:23:45,718 --> 00:23:48,445 or, you know, actually, out prefer practical effects. 715 00:23:48,605 --> 00:23:48,844 But, 716 00:23:49,482 --> 00:23:50,998 you know, all that is very expensive and 717 00:23:50,998 --> 00:23:52,274 all that. But if I had to choosing, 718 00:23:52,354 --> 00:23:53,471 if I had all the money in the 719 00:23:53,471 --> 00:23:54,906 world, would be awesome. 720 00:23:55,624 --> 00:23:57,790 I would definitely do an animated series. And 721 00:23:57,790 --> 00:23:58,823 it I would have to be in charge 722 00:23:58,823 --> 00:24:00,413 of it. I will never license this out. 723 00:24:00,652 --> 00:24:02,321 I will never sell it. So it have 724 00:24:02,321 --> 00:24:04,387 to be something that I have complete control 725 00:24:04,387 --> 00:24:06,349 over because I will never have this series 726 00:24:06,469 --> 00:24:08,301 I'd rather have nothing than have it completely 727 00:24:08,301 --> 00:24:10,851 ruined or destroyed or, you know, turned into 728 00:24:10,851 --> 00:24:12,046 something that I have no idea what they 729 00:24:12,046 --> 00:24:12,445 did do it. 730 00:24:14,450 --> 00:24:16,039 So let's switch gears again. 731 00:24:16,755 --> 00:24:18,185 Because, you know, just as you get really 732 00:24:18,185 --> 00:24:19,934 comfortable that we're talking about 1 thing, I'm 733 00:24:19,934 --> 00:24:21,047 gonna take you somewhere else. 734 00:24:23,129 --> 00:24:23,629 So 735 00:24:24,168 --> 00:24:27,045 when it comes to comics and representation of 736 00:24:27,045 --> 00:24:28,084 women in comics. 737 00:24:29,203 --> 00:24:30,802 In the stuff that I read, I've been 738 00:24:30,802 --> 00:24:32,101 reading a lot more 739 00:24:33,613 --> 00:24:35,528 create own comics that are written by women, 740 00:24:35,688 --> 00:24:37,523 and so you tend to get a bit 741 00:24:37,523 --> 00:24:40,816 more, you know, body image diversity. You get 742 00:24:41,367 --> 00:24:43,832 more interesting characters that aren't just like massive 743 00:24:43,832 --> 00:24:44,945 tits, tiny waist, 744 00:24:45,820 --> 00:24:46,774 impossibly beautiful. 745 00:24:49,716 --> 00:24:50,216 So 746 00:24:51,004 --> 00:24:52,461 like, what do you find 747 00:24:53,158 --> 00:24:55,153 is kind of the the most common thing 748 00:24:55,153 --> 00:24:57,307 that's still seeing? Are you still seeing the 749 00:24:57,307 --> 00:24:57,706 kind of... 750 00:24:58,759 --> 00:25:01,096 Ridiculous portrayal of women or 751 00:25:01,555 --> 00:25:02,913 yes. Is it? Okay. 752 00:25:04,751 --> 00:25:06,599 You know, and and you know, 753 00:25:07,395 --> 00:25:10,419 they sell. They sell on kickstarter, They make 754 00:25:10,419 --> 00:25:11,771 hundreds of thousands of dollars. 755 00:25:13,059 --> 00:25:14,648 But I didn't go that way. My my 756 00:25:15,204 --> 00:25:16,237 my story has no nudity. 757 00:25:17,191 --> 00:25:19,814 I did add a couple sexy covers, but 758 00:25:19,814 --> 00:25:21,934 never top list, never anything. She's just... But 759 00:25:22,133 --> 00:25:23,718 She's just sexy. She's a sexy girl. 760 00:25:24,432 --> 00:25:25,487 She's does... She's 761 00:25:25,859 --> 00:25:27,682 not... She doesn't have huge boobs. 762 00:25:29,030 --> 00:25:29,530 She 763 00:25:29,838 --> 00:25:32,066 She does wear a nurse outfit fit, but 764 00:25:32,146 --> 00:25:33,816 I'm gonna be completely honest with you that 765 00:25:33,816 --> 00:25:35,567 was not on purpose, and it wasn't for 766 00:25:35,567 --> 00:25:38,052 the sexuality of it. It's because 767 00:25:39,809 --> 00:25:42,124 my my artist has a horrible memory, and 768 00:25:42,443 --> 00:25:44,040 he kept forgetting to draw in a wound 769 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,637 she had, and I had to think of 770 00:25:45,637 --> 00:25:47,250 a way to get rid of it. So 771 00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:49,169 to do that, she was an trapped in 772 00:25:49,169 --> 00:25:51,169 a and a haunted asylum. I couldn't think 773 00:25:51,169 --> 00:25:52,529 of a shirt she would wear, so she 774 00:25:52,529 --> 00:25:54,130 had... She put on a nurse's outfit it. 775 00:25:54,784 --> 00:25:56,304 And then it just became her thing. So 776 00:25:56,304 --> 00:25:58,865 it wasn't intentional, but guys obviously love the 777 00:25:58,865 --> 00:26:00,865 nurse outfit it. So... Yeah. They were just, 778 00:26:00,944 --> 00:26:02,384 like, what made you do that? I was 779 00:26:02,384 --> 00:26:03,916 like I... My artist has a horrible memory. 780 00:26:04,155 --> 00:26:05,193 Was not on purpose. 781 00:26:06,629 --> 00:26:08,385 But, I mean, was there anything, You know, 782 00:26:08,544 --> 00:26:11,669 you you say, She's... She's beautiful girl. She's 783 00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:13,658 amazing, She kicks us, etcetera. But were there 784 00:26:13,658 --> 00:26:16,602 any specific things like that you did say 785 00:26:16,602 --> 00:26:18,194 to your artist or that you really wanted 786 00:26:18,194 --> 00:26:19,467 to make sure that you... 787 00:26:20,357 --> 00:26:20,857 Didn't 788 00:26:21,313 --> 00:26:24,098 do in sort of the the treatment of 789 00:26:24,098 --> 00:26:25,553 your female characters 790 00:26:25,929 --> 00:26:28,555 or something maybe that you definitely wanted to 791 00:26:28,555 --> 00:26:29,431 make sure that they did. 792 00:26:30,565 --> 00:26:31,944 I said never 793 00:26:32,244 --> 00:26:33,065 never top 794 00:26:33,765 --> 00:26:34,904 and never over. 795 00:26:36,244 --> 00:26:37,765 It was like 1. I don't know what 796 00:26:37,765 --> 00:26:40,036 he was thinking. There's a a ghost nurse 797 00:26:40,174 --> 00:26:42,887 and han asylum. And I guess, like, I 798 00:26:42,887 --> 00:26:44,323 let's say there's a nipple slippage, 799 00:26:44,882 --> 00:26:45,281 but 800 00:26:45,934 --> 00:26:48,483 her shirt was too low or weird and 801 00:26:48,483 --> 00:26:49,040 the artist, 802 00:26:50,076 --> 00:26:51,590 I guess had put her nipple there, and 803 00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:53,198 I had to have the color... Take it 804 00:26:53,198 --> 00:26:54,632 out. I was you can't you can't have 805 00:26:54,632 --> 00:26:57,181 any in there. So I tried to avoid 806 00:26:57,181 --> 00:26:57,500 all, 807 00:26:58,217 --> 00:27:00,541 top list covers, all top less anything. 808 00:27:01,575 --> 00:27:03,744 And I wanted it to be 809 00:27:04,914 --> 00:27:07,221 not too low cut and not too tight. 810 00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:08,652 Like, her. She's got a nurse's outfit it, 811 00:27:08,731 --> 00:27:10,179 which is sexy, but it's not like, 812 00:27:11,056 --> 00:27:12,571 really super tight to her. Granted did some 813 00:27:12,571 --> 00:27:13,848 of the covers. They're super tight, 814 00:27:14,884 --> 00:27:16,799 because I give the artist that do the 815 00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:18,155 covers freedom to do what they want. Of 816 00:27:18,155 --> 00:27:19,590 course they chose incredibly sexy succeed in your 817 00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:22,244 yourself. But in the story yourself, it's a 818 00:27:22,244 --> 00:27:24,164 normal nurse outfit that goes, like, down to 819 00:27:24,164 --> 00:27:25,865 our knees, You know, it's not like this 820 00:27:26,325 --> 00:27:26,825 completely 821 00:27:27,204 --> 00:27:28,164 sexual outfit. 822 00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:30,259 So that was a big thing. 823 00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:31,700 And also, 824 00:27:33,220 --> 00:27:34,119 you know, Ser 825 00:27:34,579 --> 00:27:36,419 is not a dams. You know? I mean 826 00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:38,934 Raven wants to protect her. And 827 00:27:39,708 --> 00:27:41,460 you know, she kind of lets them sometimes, 828 00:27:41,699 --> 00:27:42,416 but generally, 829 00:27:43,212 --> 00:27:44,885 she does things in her own. You could 830 00:27:44,885 --> 00:27:47,137 tell a growth between them because in in 831 00:27:47,528 --> 00:27:49,039 issues went through 7. She won't allow them 832 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:50,391 to do anything. Like, she runs in the 833 00:27:50,391 --> 00:27:51,607 room without them, and 834 00:27:51,982 --> 00:27:53,437 And even in 17 835 00:27:53,812 --> 00:27:55,342 or 6... Scene. She runs into a room 836 00:27:55,342 --> 00:27:56,779 that pisses him off because she's just like, 837 00:27:56,859 --> 00:27:57,897 let me do it. And she's like, nope. 838 00:27:58,057 --> 00:27:58,376 I got this. 839 00:27:59,414 --> 00:28:02,048 So mostly, she is a a stronger character. 840 00:28:02,208 --> 00:28:03,779 You know, She's not a dams. She doesn't 841 00:28:04,058 --> 00:28:05,807 She's not gonna wait to be rescued. You 842 00:28:05,807 --> 00:28:07,477 know, it might happen now and then because 843 00:28:07,477 --> 00:28:10,181 they're in a very dangerous situation, but she's 844 00:28:10,181 --> 00:28:12,010 she's still... She's not the type to scream 845 00:28:12,010 --> 00:28:12,726 for help, you know? 846 00:28:14,252 --> 00:28:16,024 So do you find that there are more 847 00:28:16,161 --> 00:28:18,967 women writing comics these days? And 848 00:28:19,342 --> 00:28:22,085 if there are, like, are they the ones 849 00:28:22,142 --> 00:28:22,642 driving 850 00:28:23,176 --> 00:28:26,278 change when it comes to the representation of 851 00:28:26,278 --> 00:28:27,153 women in comics? 852 00:28:28,442 --> 00:28:29,796 I only know of 1 other 1, 853 00:28:30,513 --> 00:28:31,412 Laurie C, 854 00:28:31,868 --> 00:28:32,368 which 855 00:28:33,143 --> 00:28:35,109 she's actually would help me come out because 856 00:28:35,625 --> 00:28:37,372 you know, as as being a woman Write? 857 00:28:37,530 --> 00:28:39,515 When I first started this, I did not 858 00:28:39,515 --> 00:28:41,579 tell anyone, I was a female, I would 859 00:28:41,579 --> 00:28:44,454 just have my logo from my you know, 860 00:28:44,853 --> 00:28:47,008 picture. I did no videos and no audio 861 00:28:47,088 --> 00:28:49,563 I did no interviews. I thought that I 862 00:28:49,563 --> 00:28:51,798 would not be taken seriously because not only 863 00:28:51,798 --> 00:28:52,995 am I a woman in comics, 864 00:28:53,568 --> 00:28:55,477 I do her. And I didn't know if 865 00:28:55,557 --> 00:28:57,068 I would be taken seriously. So I did... 866 00:28:57,387 --> 00:28:58,739 I I kind of avoided that. And then 867 00:28:58,739 --> 00:28:59,852 she came along and she does, 868 00:29:00,663 --> 00:29:03,153 zombie Cowboy. She has a a western zombie 869 00:29:03,529 --> 00:29:04,029 apocalyptic 870 00:29:04,723 --> 00:29:06,156 story. And I... It was like, well, if 871 00:29:06,156 --> 00:29:07,112 she can do it, then I can do 872 00:29:07,112 --> 00:29:07,271 it. 873 00:29:09,038 --> 00:29:10,790 Fantastic. Thank you for that. And, obviously, I'll 874 00:29:10,790 --> 00:29:12,462 give another shout out for Emily Carroll through 875 00:29:12,462 --> 00:29:14,453 the woods which I absolutely adore is a 876 00:29:14,453 --> 00:29:16,922 horror. It's so it's so cool. I'm gonna 877 00:29:16,922 --> 00:29:19,249 have a look better. Yeah. Oh, definitely. It's 878 00:29:19,249 --> 00:29:20,683 very good. It is It's good. 879 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:22,916 In fact, didn't I send it to you? 880 00:29:23,075 --> 00:29:24,510 Audio do sent it to me a can't. 881 00:29:26,199 --> 00:29:28,263 You got it from me. Yeah was so. 882 00:29:28,819 --> 00:29:30,566 Brilliant, Well, thank you so much for joining 883 00:29:30,566 --> 00:29:32,233 us Chris. It has been amazing to talk 884 00:29:32,233 --> 00:29:33,583 to you, and I feel like I've learned 885 00:29:33,583 --> 00:29:33,901 so much. 886 00:29:35,107 --> 00:29:36,696 You're gonna join us on Patreon for a 887 00:29:36,696 --> 00:29:38,444 few minutes just to answer some questions about 888 00:29:38,444 --> 00:29:41,168 running a kickstarter, which is really fantastic. So 889 00:29:41,383 --> 00:29:43,783 that's our patrons, but For everyone else, I 890 00:29:43,783 --> 00:29:45,135 want to say thank you so much for 891 00:29:45,135 --> 00:29:46,249 coming and chatting to us today. 892 00:29:48,556 --> 00:29:50,642 Breaking the glass slipper is written and produced 893 00:29:50,642 --> 00:29:52,715 by Megan Lee, Charlotte Bombed, and Lucy. 894 00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:56,624 Please help us spread the word, subscribe and 895 00:29:56,624 --> 00:29:58,857 leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. 896 00:29:59,749 --> 00:30:01,577 We want to hear from you. Let us 897 00:30:01,577 --> 00:30:03,007 know what you would like to hear on 898 00:30:03,007 --> 00:30:05,074 the next episode of breaking the glass slipper.