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In the game, a documentary podcast. Today is

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Monday, July 20 second, and you're listening in

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episode 634.

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As always, I am your host, Jason. Here

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today joined by 2 lovely people. 1, just

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won't go away. That's Joe Ke. Welcome back

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all of a sudden after 1 episode away.

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You're back,

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back again, Joe is back. I'm back. Tell

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a game designer.

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You can't get rid of me. I'm Joe.

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It's good to have you here.

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And then also backed by popular request of

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I think just me. Yeah. I was gonna

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say, Yeah. And me. I requested Robbie wants.

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Nice. You you did. You did. Robbie Berg

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is back

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And it's great to have you here. Great.

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Yeah. Yeah. So we're all we're all here.

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Just hanging out, like a big funky bunch.

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So 1 thing we're missing is,

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some mark Mark. Yeah.

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Wow,

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already.

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I mean, Time goes quick.

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Well, y'all. It's good to have you all

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here.

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Yeah. So, what's ever been been up to?

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Joe, you were just here, but what have

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you've been doing in the meantime the last

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2 weeks?

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Well, since the last episode, my first game

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got signed,

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Hey.

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I

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I delivered a prototype so they're bringing it

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to Gen con. I think just for internal

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testing. But

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and

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lots of

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solo testing of of different games and a

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little bit of work on the coloring book

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game that I that I pitched last time.

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Awesome. Awesome.

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Robbie, what about you?

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I think that since last time I was

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on, I went through incredible life changing pain,

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but

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that has

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mostly resolved, and I'm glad to be able

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to walk again.

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And I won't delve in too much to

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that adventure, but I'm glad I got that

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experience to be able to comm with people

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who are in that situation. And I feel

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really bad for them. And in if any

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of you, is that you, then I feel

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bad for you and I'm sorry.

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Game wise

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been playing a lot of games with friends.

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They continue to

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Wow, may come visit play games. They they

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made me pull off of pull out

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gloom haven jaws of the line out of

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the plastic and we played that for, like,

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20 hours and

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much to the cha to my family who

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was avoiding the whole time, but it was

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mostly at night while they were asleep.

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And then, you know what I just... I

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mean, just you know, we're... We'll see though

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what the topic is in the in... In

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just another second, but kind of a... As

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said prelude. I was playing solo game,

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blue haven buttons and bugs. I'm having a

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lot of fun with that. But then I

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was solo multi handed just now on the

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table over here.

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This game, it's it's it's called tier

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tuna knowledge. It's by this guy. I don't

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know. It's okay. I heard it's awful. It's

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it's okay. No. It's actually quite beautiful. And

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now that I've learned it, I think it's

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quite delightful, and I can't wait to play

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to people, but I'm playing it by myself.

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I played the solo version I really did

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enjoy that. That was really cool. And then

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just to to preview the topic we're about

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to talk about I play. I'm playing a

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3 player game

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by myself. So nice. Nice. That would mean.

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Do you do that to, like, help with

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your teach?

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Like,

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sure. New game? Okay. I... I sometimes we'll

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do that, Like,

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I'm gonna have have 3 people over, and

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I'll play, like, the first,

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however, many rounds

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of of a game that I'm I'm learning

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from the rule book or something.

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Just to make sure I understand the flow

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of it.

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And then I can teach it a little

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bit better. For sure. And so... Okay. That

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is the topic. That it's What are we

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calling it? It's a, like, multi handed testing

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your game, solo. Not your solo game, but

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you're you're you're game with multiple players. Right.

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Right.

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I

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I don't know. Just to kinda just jump

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off. Like, when I was getting back into

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the hobby because I was into it when

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I was 5 and 10 and in and

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and 14 and but then, like, that was

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30 years ago, and I got back into

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it, like, 10 years ago, 8 years ago.

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I don't know. But I got really excited

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and

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1 of the ones like, you've heard my

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and I talking about,

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Z and this big game big box, and

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I dropped it on the table and sat

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there and played a 3 handed game by

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myself and built up the universe and know,

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taking everybody's turned by myself and at the

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end, like, there was this big moment at

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the end where I had to roll 3

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die and whoever this player would have been

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what I had this incredible finish to the

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game. It really exciting. But so, like, what

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what I find interesting is that

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as far as testing games, Solo,

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what I'm surprised to find is that a

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lot people

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say to me that, you know, they they

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they can't do it, or they don't wanna

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do it.

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And I was like, Well, you know how

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interesting is this topic, but then sure enough

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on Monday,

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I got an email from 1 of the

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newsletters I follow from 1 of the game

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designers that have their own class and such.

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And and they're like, how to test your

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game with no play testers and and it

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was... You can do it yourself. I'm like,

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wow, wow, okay. So this is something that

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people are interested in.

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But I I just found a fascinating name

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that some people like, like, I've put videos

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of me playing it by myself and someone

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commented, like, this is incredible. And I'm like,

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is it? Okay. So anyway, I... The topic

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is interested to me.

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But, yeah, what what what

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Joe you were saying that you have some

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stories about

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either being forced to play solo.

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Because, maybe you're like me where, like, I'm

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out in the Boo and I don't

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get to a lot of play tests,

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because there's not a lot around me. I

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have to drive, like, an hour and a

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half get to 1 and stuff like that.

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Yeah. I don't have to drive that far,

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but,

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scheduling things can be tough. I have

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a

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21

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month baby.

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So,

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you know, bad bedtime routine is a whole

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thing that takes up

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3 hours of the night. And

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so it's it's a whole thing to either

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have people come over or

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or go to a play testing event. There

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are some that are near me, but they're

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scheduled during busy times like Saturday or Sunday.

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So we always have family over or something

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like that.

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But

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the 1 thing about Solo testing is that

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it is very quiet.

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You know, there's there's nobody coming through the

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front door,

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making noise and stuff like that. So,

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our baby

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really bad sleeper.

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Really bad sleeper. We'll wake up. Oh, yeah.

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Any sounds.

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So

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it was that was a little bit of

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a of a difficult

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situation was, like, getting in

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play tests of things. But this is also

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a thing I've done with with other with

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other games. You know, I brought it up,

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usually just if I'm like, learning a game.

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I do, like,

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Solo testing as multiple players, well, not testing

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in that place, in that case playing.

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But I did it a lot with,

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commander, the the magic the gathering,

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the variant or format. It's the more popular

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1 now, I think. But

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So I have these 4

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very distinct decks,

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and I can play them against each other.

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Well, I mean, I have, like, 10 of

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them. And so I pick 4 and

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play them against each other.

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And with that, you're doing similar things as

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you're doing to game design because when you're

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building your commander deck, you're you're setting up

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an experience that the other people are gonna

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have. So sometimes it's a 1 hour to

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maybe sometimes up to, like, 2 and a

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half hour

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experience, 1 game of commander,

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and you want the other people playing with

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you to have a good time. You want

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them to have, like,

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a fairly

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even match. I find that that ends up

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being the most fun.

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So that was 1 way to find out,

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like, well, every time that this deck gets

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in this situation

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it just loses, or it blows up and

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it and it wins and it surprises everybody.

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So you start measuring them in

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like,

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this is a 6 turn wind deck. This

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is a 14 turn win deck.

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So that you can take those out at

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the right time. To that ruin that social

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experience.

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That's interesting. I mean, like, because you hear

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about, you, when people are pitching a game,

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they'll set up, they'll preload the deck... So

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they come... You're kinda doing a similar thing

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there. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Yep.

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So... But, yeah, Then this was a huge

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thing that just carried over naturally for me

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in in game design

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was doing solo testing

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of my games. So these are not play

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throughs. They are still tests where I'm trying

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to answer a question.

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Right? Though. So every time I play test

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a game, I'm usually trying to answer a

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question. It might be a very well defined

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question, it might be a somewhat vague question.

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And it might be, does this work at

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all?

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So I wrote down a few of the

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top times for

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testing

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a game solo.

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This big 1 that I just wrote is

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sick.

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When you are sick,

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is a good time to do solo testing

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if you're feeling up to it because you

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don't want other people to come over.

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When you're contagious. Yeah. Consider all places. Yeah.

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So that's that's a good option.

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But, of course, there's also online testing

272
00:09:50,371 --> 00:09:51,246
for when you're sick.

273
00:09:53,077 --> 00:09:55,783
So the the other options that I that

274
00:09:55,942 --> 00:09:57,454
I wrote down and these aren't the only

275
00:09:57,454 --> 00:09:58,807
times you can do it or anything like

276
00:09:58,807 --> 00:09:59,259
that. But

277
00:10:00,968 --> 00:10:03,432
I think very early in a design. I'll

278
00:10:03,432 --> 00:10:06,612
usually do first several games solo to make

279
00:10:06,612 --> 00:10:08,383
sure that things work so that

280
00:10:08,774 --> 00:10:10,373
what I'm putting on the table in front

281
00:10:10,373 --> 00:10:12,610
of testers for the first time is something

282
00:10:12,610 --> 00:10:15,327
they can actually play. Yeah. Because I only

283
00:10:15,327 --> 00:10:18,218
get so many opportunities to to test. Like,

284
00:10:18,457 --> 00:10:20,765
if if you have a a weekly or

285
00:10:20,765 --> 00:10:22,675
a 2 times a week meetup up that

286
00:10:22,675 --> 00:10:24,608
you do, you might not

287
00:10:25,063 --> 00:10:25,674
need that

288
00:10:26,429 --> 00:10:28,336
but I'm may getting my games in front

289
00:10:28,336 --> 00:10:30,085
of people once a month or something.

290
00:10:31,594 --> 00:10:32,094
So

291
00:10:33,358 --> 00:10:35,509
Hold on. And then I've I've also got

292
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:37,103
after a major change,

293
00:10:38,139 --> 00:10:40,210
as we try to iron out. So that's

294
00:10:40,210 --> 00:10:41,246
kind of the same reasoning.

295
00:10:42,934 --> 00:10:43,594
And then

296
00:10:44,371 --> 00:10:45,009
late stage,

297
00:10:45,808 --> 00:10:46,207
maybe,

298
00:10:46,766 --> 00:10:50,038
figuring out cap strategy x. So... Yes. Yes.

299
00:10:50,278 --> 00:10:51,337
Late stage capitalism

300
00:10:52,048 --> 00:10:54,029
that's the main time that I do my

301
00:10:54,029 --> 00:10:54,425
testing.

302
00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:55,931
That's the age I live in.

303
00:10:57,913 --> 00:11:01,508
So working out awkward things like, turn order

304
00:11:01,508 --> 00:11:02,566
and other sequencing

305
00:11:03,103 --> 00:11:07,091
that that seems natural on paper. Mh. But

306
00:11:07,091 --> 00:11:08,686
then once you go and you actually do

307
00:11:08,686 --> 00:11:08,846
it,

308
00:11:10,940 --> 00:11:12,620
this can be a helpful thing. Like, oh,

309
00:11:12,779 --> 00:11:14,700
I was frustrated every time I drew a

310
00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:15,899
card at this point.

311
00:11:17,272 --> 00:11:19,344
Because now I have to consider more information

312
00:11:19,344 --> 00:11:21,816
than I thought I needed to. Yeah. I

313
00:11:21,816 --> 00:11:21,895
mean,

314
00:11:23,569 --> 00:11:25,339
look at as a as as a form

315
00:11:25,339 --> 00:11:27,899
of testing. It's not ideal, obviously, for 1

316
00:11:27,899 --> 00:11:30,059
the feedback is crap. So the other point

317
00:11:30,139 --> 00:11:32,059
I was gonna make is just like operationally

318
00:11:32,059 --> 00:11:33,579
getting through the game how the numbers work

319
00:11:33,579 --> 00:11:34,720
out, making sure

320
00:11:35,113 --> 00:11:36,707
you have all the pieces, like, get to

321
00:11:36,707 --> 00:11:37,106
the end.

322
00:11:38,620 --> 00:11:39,736
I guess, anecdotally, like,

323
00:11:40,613 --> 00:11:41,272
I was

324
00:11:41,649 --> 00:11:43,336
on the first test of a of David

325
00:11:43,415 --> 00:11:45,400
Mo. Tears of joy, and we could tell

326
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:46,909
it was an awesome game, and we got

327
00:11:46,909 --> 00:11:48,179
to the end, and and there was not

328
00:11:48,179 --> 00:11:49,529
enough pieces, or there was way too many.

329
00:11:49,688 --> 00:11:50,482
I forget, David, But

330
00:11:51,133 --> 00:11:52,248
could tell the game was awesome and gonna

331
00:11:52,248 --> 00:11:54,238
be great. But, like, Dave like, I did

332
00:11:54,238 --> 00:11:56,308
the math totally wrong. Maybe a little quick

333
00:11:56,308 --> 00:11:58,378
self test beforehand might have played through a

334
00:11:58,378 --> 00:12:00,549
whole game multi handed and and the number

335
00:12:00,549 --> 00:12:02,149
you you see the numbers work out or

336
00:12:02,149 --> 00:12:04,470
something, But I'm not about to tell David

337
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:05,669
how to design a game at all.

338
00:12:06,804 --> 00:12:07,043
Now,

339
00:12:08,077 --> 00:12:08,953
yeah. Beyond that.

340
00:12:10,067 --> 00:12:11,499
When I'm in, like... When I'm doing a

341
00:12:11,499 --> 00:12:11,658
game,

342
00:12:12,773 --> 00:12:14,046
I'm testing myself,

343
00:12:15,001 --> 00:12:15,899
I'm looking at

344
00:12:16,449 --> 00:12:18,686
are there choices here? You know? Like, before

345
00:12:18,766 --> 00:12:20,523
I put this in front of someone when

346
00:12:20,523 --> 00:12:22,600
play comes to this person, what are their

347
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:22,920
choices?

348
00:12:23,414 --> 00:12:25,412
Do they have 1 choice? Do they have

349
00:12:25,412 --> 00:12:27,730
no choices? Or do they have 2 or

350
00:12:27,730 --> 00:12:28,689
3 that are interesting?

351
00:12:29,168 --> 00:12:31,166
And and as I go around and around,

352
00:12:31,326 --> 00:12:32,860
each time it comes to that each player?

353
00:12:33,019 --> 00:12:34,620
Like, do they have choices that are interesting?

354
00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:35,899
Would this be interesting?

355
00:12:36,379 --> 00:12:36,879
Or

356
00:12:37,259 --> 00:12:39,019
do they have too many? Because that's also,

357
00:12:39,580 --> 00:12:40,940
you know what I mean? Same lines As,

358
00:12:41,019 --> 00:12:42,873
like, are, are they gonna get Ap because

359
00:12:42,873 --> 00:12:45,190
they have too many choices. Right? Mh. That's

360
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:47,027
something to remember when you're looking at that.

361
00:12:47,826 --> 00:12:49,993
Right. And so that's something you see just

362
00:12:49,993 --> 00:12:50,947
by playing it by yourself.

363
00:12:52,616 --> 00:12:53,513
I'm curious,

364
00:12:54,761 --> 00:12:55,261
I

365
00:12:56,272 --> 00:12:57,725
speaking of anecdotes

366
00:12:58,274 --> 00:12:59,786
But, you know, you hear these stories...

367
00:13:00,423 --> 00:13:01,776
I'm sure everyone's done. I'm sure happens a

368
00:13:01,776 --> 00:13:04,244
lot. I... I'm just a hobby designer. I've

369
00:13:04,244 --> 00:13:05,676
got 1 design, well, maybe 2.

370
00:13:06,409 --> 00:13:06,888
But

371
00:13:07,526 --> 00:13:09,362
the these folks have generate tons and tons

372
00:13:09,362 --> 00:13:10,718
of designs and throw them at the table,

373
00:13:11,197 --> 00:13:12,474
and you'll bring a design to the table

374
00:13:12,474 --> 00:13:14,150
on a completely completely flops.

375
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,274
Jason You tell a story about 1 of

376
00:13:17,274 --> 00:13:19,267
your early ones it's the cyber samurai or

377
00:13:19,267 --> 00:13:22,295
something. Oh, 6 gun S. Yeah. 6 guns.

378
00:13:22,709 --> 00:13:24,862
6 sugar. Now that 1, did you did

379
00:13:24,862 --> 00:13:27,175
you do any solo playing of it? Or

380
00:13:27,175 --> 00:13:29,249
did you just set and go. Be honest,

381
00:13:29,488 --> 00:13:30,924
well, and I have to complete this, but

382
00:13:30,924 --> 00:13:33,412
it was shit so S because it was

383
00:13:33,412 --> 00:13:34,050
really bad.

384
00:13:35,088 --> 00:13:35,566
So

385
00:13:35,965 --> 00:13:38,461
so here's what happened. III have this inspiration

386
00:13:39,158 --> 00:13:41,168
for a game that there was, like, a

387
00:13:41,168 --> 00:13:43,184
a Western town, you had

388
00:13:43,961 --> 00:13:45,898
these, like S or or Samurai

389
00:13:46,596 --> 00:13:48,192
or something like that, and you had these

390
00:13:48,192 --> 00:13:48,692
cowboys

391
00:13:49,881 --> 00:13:51,232
trying to take over the town. And then

392
00:13:51,232 --> 00:13:52,346
you also had, like,

393
00:13:53,061 --> 00:13:54,095
a third faction.

394
00:13:54,572 --> 00:13:56,480
I don't remember who that was. Maybe it

395
00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,150
this is like the towns spoke who, like,

396
00:13:58,309 --> 00:13:58,627
were, like,

397
00:13:59,517 --> 00:14:01,586
W Right. Would be the guns. Right?

398
00:14:02,779 --> 00:14:04,291
Well, no. That was the cowboys. That was

399
00:14:04,291 --> 00:14:06,360
the 6 guns. The cowboys, and then the

400
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,684
s guns, and then you had, like, the

401
00:14:08,684 --> 00:14:09,803
no guns, I guess.

402
00:14:10,522 --> 00:14:12,760
But they they were just like, hey,

403
00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:14,358
you know,

404
00:14:15,157 --> 00:14:16,596
get out of our town. But anyways,

405
00:14:18,288 --> 00:14:20,041
you were assigned at the beginning, I think

406
00:14:20,041 --> 00:14:21,714
randomly who you were part of,

407
00:14:22,511 --> 00:14:24,684
long story short. I was very inspired. I

408
00:14:25,633 --> 00:14:27,938
made the heck out of this game, like,

409
00:14:29,050 --> 00:14:31,991
nice first prototype products Gen con played it

410
00:14:31,991 --> 00:14:34,217
with 4 or 5 players.

411
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:37,670
I think it was 4.

412
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:38,970
And

413
00:14:39,830 --> 00:14:42,470
I've was so... Like, this is gonna just

414
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:42,870
crush it.

415
00:14:43,603 --> 00:14:46,149
And every part of the play test was

416
00:14:46,149 --> 00:14:46,388
bad.

417
00:14:47,422 --> 00:14:49,251
We quit early few rounds in,

418
00:14:50,698 --> 00:14:52,686
the people who were the no guns were,

419
00:14:52,765 --> 00:14:53,084
like,

420
00:14:54,117 --> 00:14:56,105
I didn't really understand what my goal was

421
00:14:56,105 --> 00:14:58,014
in this game at all. Like, I just

422
00:14:58,014 --> 00:14:58,753
was here

423
00:14:59,462 --> 00:15:00,737
and I didn't know what to do.

424
00:15:02,491 --> 00:15:02,991
And,

425
00:15:04,165 --> 00:15:05,440
yeah. And it was bad, and it was

426
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,369
embarrassing because it was, like, a bunch cool

427
00:15:07,369 --> 00:15:08,964
people agree to play and they all hated

428
00:15:08,964 --> 00:15:09,044
it.

429
00:15:10,081 --> 00:15:11,197
Like, real hardcore.

430
00:15:12,473 --> 00:15:13,909
But it was a big lesson. Right? And,

431
00:15:13,989 --> 00:15:15,685
like, you've gotta figure out

432
00:15:17,434 --> 00:15:17,833
you know,

433
00:15:18,951 --> 00:15:20,388
what you're doing before you throw that in

434
00:15:20,388 --> 00:15:22,543
front of people, But here's the thing. I

435
00:15:22,543 --> 00:15:24,299
am awful at So play testing. I've tried

436
00:15:24,299 --> 00:15:26,215
it. My brain does not work that way.

437
00:15:28,376 --> 00:15:30,281
So I still... I... What was that? I

438
00:15:30,281 --> 00:15:31,709
was gonna say, said, what what... I... And

439
00:15:31,947 --> 00:15:33,059
I guess, for who else was saying that,

440
00:15:33,138 --> 00:15:33,773
maybe Jonathan,

441
00:15:34,423 --> 00:15:36,015
S. He's the 1 who maybe even requested

442
00:15:36,015 --> 00:15:38,163
this topic. Mh. He was. And then was

443
00:15:38,163 --> 00:15:39,675
like, I don't wanna talk to you jerks

444
00:15:39,675 --> 00:15:39,994
about it.

445
00:15:43,669 --> 00:15:45,500
But, okay. So what's... What do you struggle

446
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:47,273
with? So I

447
00:15:50,613 --> 00:15:52,610
I don't know it's the whole process. Like,

448
00:15:52,690 --> 00:15:54,528
when I try to sit down with a

449
00:15:54,528 --> 00:15:55,028
game

450
00:15:55,486 --> 00:15:56,685
and solo test it,

451
00:15:57,418 --> 00:15:59,892
it just doesn't click for me. And and

452
00:15:59,892 --> 00:16:00,392
here's

453
00:16:01,009 --> 00:16:03,163
here's, I think why for me.

454
00:16:05,492 --> 00:16:07,826
I like games where players

455
00:16:08,282 --> 00:16:10,435
discover things as they go. Not like, oh,

456
00:16:10,595 --> 00:16:12,748
we're, you know, I mean, sure they can

457
00:16:12,748 --> 00:16:14,436
discover new things But, like, I like when

458
00:16:14,436 --> 00:16:17,167
the... When they discover the strategy when they,

459
00:16:17,464 --> 00:16:19,933
you know, get to feel clever about the

460
00:16:19,933 --> 00:16:21,208
tricks and stuff they get to do in

461
00:16:21,208 --> 00:16:22,961
the game, like, in the actions they can

462
00:16:22,961 --> 00:16:23,120
take.

463
00:16:23,852 --> 00:16:24,352
And

464
00:16:25,443 --> 00:16:28,466
I can't feel that way because I designed

465
00:16:28,466 --> 00:16:30,614
that part portion of it, and I can't

466
00:16:30,614 --> 00:16:31,990
make my brain not

467
00:16:32,779 --> 00:16:33,976
not do that part.

468
00:16:34,775 --> 00:16:35,275
So

469
00:16:35,892 --> 00:16:38,048
so it ends up just not feeling right

470
00:16:38,048 --> 00:16:38,367
to me,

471
00:16:39,166 --> 00:16:40,704
or it ends up feeling

472
00:16:42,695 --> 00:16:43,894
it ends up feeling like,

473
00:16:44,535 --> 00:16:47,095
oh, this was okay, and it's still not.

474
00:16:47,414 --> 00:16:48,934
Right? So I'm like, oh, the players will

475
00:16:48,934 --> 00:16:50,615
get this when they won't.

476
00:16:51,266 --> 00:16:51,584
Right.

477
00:16:52,379 --> 00:16:54,126
And so it's a huge part of what

478
00:16:54,126 --> 00:16:56,271
you can't right on and. So I I

479
00:16:56,271 --> 00:16:58,337
have a process that I use, and I

480
00:16:58,337 --> 00:17:00,338
can get into that. Or or I can

481
00:17:00,338 --> 00:17:02,006
give to that later when we're kind of,

482
00:17:02,086 --> 00:17:03,834
like, you know, it it doesn't matter to

483
00:17:03,834 --> 00:17:05,264
me. I I can talk about an hour

484
00:17:05,264 --> 00:17:06,377
where I can talk about it later,

485
00:17:07,506 --> 00:17:09,657
But it was just not solo testing. Yeah.

486
00:17:09,976 --> 00:17:11,490
So I was just gonna say, I mean,

487
00:17:12,366 --> 00:17:13,242
obviously, it wouldn't work.

488
00:17:13,973 --> 00:17:15,878
For a lot of games, like, if they're

489
00:17:15,878 --> 00:17:19,211
heavily social or specifically just... You know, or

490
00:17:19,211 --> 00:17:21,274
even, like party. But I guess, you know,

491
00:17:21,354 --> 00:17:23,357
if there's cards and shit involved that you

492
00:17:23,357 --> 00:17:24,155
could at least, like,

493
00:17:25,192 --> 00:17:26,547
I don't know what this person's gonna do,

494
00:17:26,787 --> 00:17:27,983
but then then you have to get into,

495
00:17:28,063 --> 00:17:30,376
like, simulating their choices or what they would

496
00:17:30,376 --> 00:17:32,471
choose Right. Right. Like here's

497
00:17:32,862 --> 00:17:34,215
here's what I will do that's close to

498
00:17:34,215 --> 00:17:36,681
solo testing that is physical. Right? I will

499
00:17:36,681 --> 00:17:38,749
set up the game and see how that

500
00:17:38,749 --> 00:17:38,987
looks.

501
00:17:39,719 --> 00:17:41,557
I'll see how it feels sitting at the

502
00:17:41,557 --> 00:17:43,634
table in the spots? Right? Like, how does

503
00:17:43,634 --> 00:17:44,913
this feel in front of me?

504
00:17:46,191 --> 00:17:47,310
Is there enough space?

505
00:17:48,765 --> 00:17:49,644
You know, am My I...

506
00:17:50,525 --> 00:17:52,365
Do I feel comfortable in the way that

507
00:17:52,445 --> 00:17:54,525
I'm moving these things or does this seem

508
00:17:54,525 --> 00:17:55,884
to make sense when I look at it?

509
00:17:56,377 --> 00:17:58,126
I'll I'll do that with games, and I

510
00:17:58,126 --> 00:18:00,192
have Solo play tested. I I heard me

511
00:18:00,192 --> 00:18:00,271
now,

512
00:18:01,543 --> 00:18:04,100
dexterity games. Where, like, I'm just trying to

513
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:06,083
see, like, does this functionally work the way

514
00:18:06,162 --> 00:18:06,797
I think it does.

515
00:18:07,828 --> 00:18:09,653
I did that a lot with Hap Cad

516
00:18:09,653 --> 00:18:10,685
that Kelly and I worked on,

517
00:18:12,208 --> 00:18:13,664
to make sure that the pieces

518
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:15,417
worked correctly

519
00:18:16,033 --> 00:18:17,546
because I didn't... There was no strategy there.

520
00:18:17,705 --> 00:18:19,538
I mean, I knew what the best strategy

521
00:18:19,538 --> 00:18:21,131
was for how to throw and toss these

522
00:18:21,131 --> 00:18:22,657
things. And if I couldn't make it work,

523
00:18:22,816 --> 00:18:24,325
then I knew that that was probably really

524
00:18:24,325 --> 00:18:24,564
bad.

525
00:18:25,437 --> 00:18:25,937
So

526
00:18:26,629 --> 00:18:28,774
Jason, I got news for you, baby. You're

527
00:18:28,774 --> 00:18:29,568
solo play testing.

528
00:18:30,377 --> 00:18:31,726
That's setting up the game,

529
00:18:32,599 --> 00:18:34,106
just going through the motions.

530
00:18:34,741 --> 00:18:37,042
That's all part of solo play testing. It

531
00:18:37,042 --> 00:18:38,311
can end there sometimes.

532
00:18:39,205 --> 00:18:41,125
Doesn't it doesn't mean going through a full

533
00:18:41,125 --> 00:18:43,684
game. It doesn't mean, like, trying to recreate

534
00:18:43,684 --> 00:18:45,205
the experience of a player.

535
00:18:46,255 --> 00:18:47,685
Playing it for the first time or the

536
00:18:47,685 --> 00:18:48,797
second time, it's...

537
00:18:49,671 --> 00:18:52,054
Does this work at all so that when

538
00:18:52,134 --> 00:18:53,984
I put it in front of other people

539
00:18:54,612 --> 00:18:55,010
Mh.

540
00:18:55,567 --> 00:18:57,635
They're at least not gonna have a question

541
00:18:57,635 --> 00:18:59,305
of where to put this card when they're

542
00:18:59,305 --> 00:18:59,942
done with it.

543
00:19:01,629 --> 00:19:03,069
Right. I think that's a big part of

544
00:19:03,069 --> 00:19:05,470
it. There's certainly much more you can do

545
00:19:05,470 --> 00:19:05,789
with it.

546
00:19:06,429 --> 00:19:08,923
Mh. But I think of that as as

547
00:19:09,003 --> 00:19:10,918
Solo testing or, like, when I'm writing the

548
00:19:10,918 --> 00:19:13,232
rule book, and I'm writing the setup section,

549
00:19:13,471 --> 00:19:15,886
and I go and set up the game.

550
00:19:17,546 --> 00:19:19,449
But, yeah, Robbie, you were talking about, like,

551
00:19:19,608 --> 00:19:22,169
different games where it might work better and

552
00:19:22,462 --> 00:19:22,938
and

553
00:19:24,223 --> 00:19:26,450
might might be more difficult to do. Do

554
00:19:26,450 --> 00:19:28,199
you have more more thoughts on that?

555
00:19:30,505 --> 00:19:31,460
It's just that, you know,

556
00:19:33,069 --> 00:19:35,226
you you wonder, like, would would that other

557
00:19:35,226 --> 00:19:37,304
play would they would they be thinking that

558
00:19:37,384 --> 00:19:39,382
I have this card? Or... So you just

559
00:19:39,382 --> 00:19:41,140
you just can't get into that? I mean,

560
00:19:41,634 --> 00:19:44,268
So you really... It's it just becomes AAA

561
00:19:44,268 --> 00:19:45,008
matter of

562
00:19:45,386 --> 00:19:47,382
simulating their choices and the numbers working out.

563
00:19:47,541 --> 00:19:49,696
And and so... And you really do... You

564
00:19:49,696 --> 00:19:51,868
can set yourself up for failure in that

565
00:19:51,868 --> 00:19:53,866
you're playing it, and everything's working. You're like,

566
00:19:54,025 --> 00:19:55,544
I've got choices. This is cool. This is

567
00:19:55,544 --> 00:19:58,020
working. And but you're still the only person

568
00:19:58,020 --> 00:19:59,313
who really knows out to and then you

569
00:19:59,313 --> 00:20:00,510
drop it in front of somebody and and

570
00:20:00,510 --> 00:20:03,301
they struggle with it. And and so, yeah.

571
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:05,933
Again, not the ideal way to test, but

572
00:20:05,933 --> 00:20:07,608
just just a way to just see if

573
00:20:07,608 --> 00:20:08,645
it's operating correctly.

574
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:11,540
But

575
00:20:11,912 --> 00:20:13,497
there was something else Gonna say about that,

576
00:20:13,894 --> 00:20:15,479
but I'll just move on and and pretend,

577
00:20:15,558 --> 00:20:17,244
like I Am I'm able to can't maintain

578
00:20:17,244 --> 00:20:20,440
it sri thought when I game. I've I've

579
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,917
got some categories of games, and I wrote

580
00:20:23,077 --> 00:20:24,835
I wrote a difficulty level for that. Oh,

581
00:20:24,995 --> 00:20:25,075
nice.

582
00:20:26,282 --> 00:20:29,459
So I think... Awesome. An interactive real time

583
00:20:29,459 --> 00:20:29,698
game.

584
00:20:30,730 --> 00:20:32,557
I wrote impossible. Yeah. Right.

585
00:20:33,763 --> 00:20:36,070
Flip flip the sand things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

586
00:20:37,343 --> 00:20:37,843
So

587
00:20:38,457 --> 00:20:40,150
good luck with that. But also

588
00:20:40,859 --> 00:20:43,254
hopefully, your rounds are, like, a minute long.

589
00:20:43,414 --> 00:20:45,729
So if you can get play testers, maybe

590
00:20:45,729 --> 00:20:47,485
you can test it like 5 times. But

591
00:20:47,485 --> 00:20:49,561
in... I'm in envisioning like this Rub Goldberg,

592
00:20:49,721 --> 00:20:52,923
there's ropes there's weights. I don't know Go

593
00:20:52,923 --> 00:20:54,435
ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe.

594
00:20:55,710 --> 00:20:57,700
Well, it's it's whatever you want. Whatever you

595
00:20:57,700 --> 00:20:58,178
want in there.

596
00:20:59,069 --> 00:21:00,286
I wrote bluff

597
00:21:00,662 --> 00:21:02,335
is hard but doable.

598
00:21:04,168 --> 00:21:06,893
So the 1 thing is that the time

599
00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:09,285
frame of a solo test depending on, you

600
00:21:09,285 --> 00:21:09,445
know,

601
00:21:10,163 --> 00:21:11,678
how much space you have where you live

602
00:21:11,678 --> 00:21:13,353
and stuff like that, You know, not everybody

603
00:21:13,353 --> 00:21:15,188
can leave a game set up forever,

604
00:21:15,746 --> 00:21:16,200
but

605
00:21:17,117 --> 00:21:19,431
If you are able, you can set up

606
00:21:19,431 --> 00:21:21,106
your game, you could take the turn as

607
00:21:21,106 --> 00:21:23,181
1 player, and you can take the next

608
00:21:23,181 --> 00:21:23,634
turn

609
00:21:23,993 --> 00:21:25,987
the next day when you've forgotten what the

610
00:21:25,987 --> 00:21:26,865
1 player did,

611
00:21:28,141 --> 00:21:30,454
if it's a bluff game. Right? Or 15

612
00:21:30,454 --> 00:21:32,926
minutes later. Or 15 minutes, it depends on

613
00:21:32,926 --> 00:21:33,405
your memory.

614
00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:36,460
Yeah. If you're the guy from Meme, you

615
00:21:36,460 --> 00:21:38,299
can you're gonna nail this, that moves anyway.

616
00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:40,140
You. Yeah. He's still would struggle with real

617
00:21:40,140 --> 00:21:41,913
time games. He'd keep forgetting the rules. But...

618
00:21:42,072 --> 00:21:43,898
I hear I him to tattoo myself about

619
00:21:43,898 --> 00:21:45,883
what my last move was. Yes. Okay. Mh.

620
00:21:48,266 --> 00:21:50,727
I... And some some very difficult ones, I

621
00:21:50,727 --> 00:21:53,075
think, are if you've designed

622
00:21:53,532 --> 00:21:55,526
a logic puzzle or an escape room.

623
00:21:57,281 --> 00:21:59,115
Something like that where it's... Where there is

624
00:21:59,115 --> 00:22:01,679
a solution and you just know the solution.

625
00:22:04,136 --> 00:22:06,196
That's that's pretty hard to test by yourself.

626
00:22:06,434 --> 00:22:09,809
Yeah. Even was... Yeah. Sorry. So

627
00:22:10,190 --> 00:22:12,029
so if that's if that's what you were

628
00:22:12,029 --> 00:22:13,230
hoping for answers on,

629
00:22:14,590 --> 00:22:16,350
I don't think you can do it, Jonathan.

630
00:22:17,721 --> 00:22:19,543
The other thing that's awful about that that

631
00:22:19,702 --> 00:22:21,049
Jonathan has mentioned before it.

632
00:22:22,475 --> 00:22:24,059
Once you use a play test, you've burned

633
00:22:24,059 --> 00:22:26,539
to play test. Right? Because. They can't play

634
00:22:26,539 --> 00:22:27,574
that 1 again.

635
00:22:28,608 --> 00:22:31,234
So... Yeah. Yeah. I've made a few logic

636
00:22:31,234 --> 00:22:31,870
puzzle games,

637
00:22:32,427 --> 00:22:33,723
and I have that same

638
00:22:34,588 --> 00:22:35,619
situation, and it's, like,

639
00:22:36,491 --> 00:22:38,711
gotta do rules testing because I can't be

640
00:22:38,711 --> 00:22:40,559
there when they're doing it. And

641
00:22:40,931 --> 00:22:42,776
once somebody read the rules and try to

642
00:22:42,776 --> 00:22:44,052
do it and I've corrected them.

643
00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:46,445
I can't use them again to read the

644
00:22:46,445 --> 00:22:46,764
rules.

645
00:22:47,402 --> 00:22:49,556
Mh. I can't use them again to see

646
00:22:49,556 --> 00:22:50,752
if the puzzles are any good.

647
00:22:51,470 --> 00:22:52,996
And they can't play the final game.

648
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,639
And then there's there's easier games, like, something

649
00:22:58,639 --> 00:23:00,490
that is a multiplayer solitaire.

650
00:23:01,118 --> 00:23:03,263
Category, not saying that in a bad way.

651
00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:07,713
You know, you can just go from seat

652
00:23:07,713 --> 00:23:09,326
to seat doing the turns

653
00:23:10,674 --> 00:23:13,391
even some interactive games, you know, like the

654
00:23:13,391 --> 00:23:15,229
bigger heroes and stuff like that.

655
00:23:17,147 --> 00:23:20,119
Pretty pretty easy to just take a turn,

656
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,359
take the next turn. As long as you're

657
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,200
not, you don't have to react to a

658
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:25,099
bunch of people

659
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,129
when they're doing their turn. You can play

660
00:23:28,129 --> 00:23:30,515
through the whole game. So I think in

661
00:23:30,515 --> 00:23:33,061
most cases, it's it's pretty doable.

662
00:23:35,306 --> 00:23:36,902
Just to get back, I got me thinking

663
00:23:36,902 --> 00:23:39,535
about him when solo, multi handing,

664
00:23:40,412 --> 00:23:40,912
tune

665
00:23:42,023 --> 00:23:43,380
I have yet to play that with multiple

666
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:45,695
people. And yet, as I'm doing this, I'm

667
00:23:45,695 --> 00:23:47,053
like, this would be so cool because, like,

668
00:23:47,212 --> 00:23:47,931
just that that

669
00:23:48,649 --> 00:23:50,940
mechanism of putting your pieces down to select

670
00:23:51,059 --> 00:23:53,213
the cards and it'd be... I can't wait

671
00:23:53,213 --> 00:23:55,286
to, like, play it and see, like, a

672
00:23:55,286 --> 00:23:57,041
competing for the cards? Would they take this

673
00:23:57,041 --> 00:23:58,317
1 for? You have to pay attention to,

674
00:23:58,477 --> 00:24:00,891
Okay. When we get to the saga phase

675
00:24:01,123 --> 00:24:02,476
I'm gonna be going first. Oh, so I

676
00:24:02,476 --> 00:24:03,828
can go here. I'm gonna get that card.

677
00:24:04,226 --> 00:24:06,215
But then later on, oh, Gonna take that

678
00:24:06,215 --> 00:24:07,886
card for me. I mean, all that all

679
00:24:07,886 --> 00:24:10,692
that comes out in the solo play test

680
00:24:10,692 --> 00:24:12,367
and and you get to, like, start delving

681
00:24:12,367 --> 00:24:14,600
into that and wondering how it'll go. But

682
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,435
you can also tell that operationally, it all

683
00:24:16,435 --> 00:24:17,711
makes sense. Because, yeah, it looks like you

684
00:24:17,711 --> 00:24:19,005
had to of a few things, you know,

685
00:24:19,085 --> 00:24:20,865
you get the number of cards right, and

686
00:24:21,725 --> 00:24:23,424
and then, the details about

687
00:24:23,725 --> 00:24:25,644
discarding, and, yeah, it's it's

688
00:24:26,775 --> 00:24:28,862
I don't know. III enjoy it, but

689
00:24:29,632 --> 00:24:31,298
it's not the ideal way to test, obviously.

690
00:24:31,536 --> 00:24:33,757
I would... I wish, like, ideally, yeah. If

691
00:24:33,757 --> 00:24:35,202
you've got a group of, like, people you

692
00:24:35,202 --> 00:24:36,716
can see every week that are totally cool

693
00:24:36,716 --> 00:24:38,149
with you just throwing something on the table,

694
00:24:38,707 --> 00:24:40,141
and you you push it around for a

695
00:24:40,141 --> 00:24:41,734
bit and you're like, net or, hey, there's

696
00:24:41,734 --> 00:24:44,059
something here. That's the best way. But but,

697
00:24:44,139 --> 00:24:45,495
yeah, I know, if you can if you

698
00:24:45,495 --> 00:24:47,249
can test it so and get it work

699
00:24:47,249 --> 00:24:48,685
in that way. It's fun.

700
00:24:52,035 --> 00:24:54,364
I have a story about when I did

701
00:24:54,364 --> 00:24:56,281
a bad job solo testing a game.

702
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,395
This was Flip tricks, my my skateboarding card

703
00:25:01,395 --> 00:25:01,555
game,

704
00:25:03,478 --> 00:25:05,544
I think it was still snowboarding at that

705
00:25:05,544 --> 00:25:08,403
time, but, it doesn't matter. So I delta

706
00:25:08,403 --> 00:25:09,777
the hands and

707
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:11,438
And

708
00:25:12,153 --> 00:25:13,528
and I looked at the hands

709
00:25:13,903 --> 00:25:15,572
and I was like, well, it's trick taking.

710
00:25:15,731 --> 00:25:17,878
So you probably pass a couple cards to

711
00:25:17,878 --> 00:25:20,079
your left. And I pick up the hand

712
00:25:20,199 --> 00:25:20,678
and I go.

713
00:25:22,275 --> 00:25:23,951
I have no clue what I would pass.

714
00:25:25,867 --> 00:25:27,623
I just picked 2 random ones, and I

715
00:25:27,623 --> 00:25:28,661
look at the next hand I go,

716
00:25:29,632 --> 00:25:30,984
I I've have no clue what I would

717
00:25:30,984 --> 00:25:31,223
pass.

718
00:25:32,257 --> 00:25:34,166
Was like, you know what? Play testers will

719
00:25:34,166 --> 00:25:35,280
tell me what I should pass,

720
00:25:35,836 --> 00:25:39,041
and the the answer was, no one's gonna

721
00:25:39,041 --> 00:25:39,541
have

722
00:25:39,918 --> 00:25:42,790
clue what to pass because the rules don't

723
00:25:42,790 --> 00:25:43,747
make any sense.

724
00:25:45,182 --> 00:25:48,147
So I I did the right thing, but

725
00:25:48,226 --> 00:25:50,298
I didn't take any action, and I needed

726
00:25:50,298 --> 00:25:52,211
to take action at that point, because then

727
00:25:52,290 --> 00:25:53,486
I put it in front of people,

728
00:25:54,138 --> 00:25:55,970
and it was a very, very rough test,

729
00:25:56,130 --> 00:25:59,577
and it was like... You actually had good

730
00:25:59,635 --> 00:26:02,277
feedback that you ignored. Right. Right. It's like,

731
00:26:02,436 --> 00:26:05,299
I already had the feedback. I didn't need

732
00:26:05,299 --> 00:26:07,447
to waste their time. Like, I could have

733
00:26:07,447 --> 00:26:09,291
been it was at a game design meetup,

734
00:26:09,450 --> 00:26:12,232
and I could have tested someone else's game

735
00:26:12,232 --> 00:26:13,742
instead of putting that 1 on the table.

736
00:26:14,935 --> 00:26:16,943
So I kind of that time I really

737
00:26:16,943 --> 00:26:19,740
felt like I I was wasting people's times.

738
00:26:21,498 --> 00:26:23,975
But... Yeah. So there... There's, you know,

739
00:26:24,627 --> 00:26:26,457
Well, to go back to the question, Jason,

740
00:26:26,696 --> 00:26:28,525
the... I'm never gonna remember the name of

741
00:26:28,525 --> 00:26:32,040
this game, the Samurai game. 6S6.

742
00:26:32,597 --> 00:26:33,415
Did you

743
00:26:33,870 --> 00:26:35,700
play it? Like, did you try to do

744
00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:37,610
a few hands of it on your by

745
00:26:37,610 --> 00:26:39,853
myself before you? Yeah. Of course, not. I

746
00:26:39,853 --> 00:26:41,126
was so sure it was gonna be good.

747
00:26:41,365 --> 00:26:42,080
Why would I do that?

748
00:26:43,513 --> 00:26:45,662
So... And going back to that 1, I

749
00:26:45,662 --> 00:26:47,510
think that... What I would do. So that...

750
00:26:47,670 --> 00:26:50,062
It sounds like that one's pretty interactive. Right?

751
00:26:50,461 --> 00:26:52,296
Like... No. I could have a hundred percent

752
00:26:52,296 --> 00:26:54,768
so tested that based on your criteria? No.

753
00:26:55,008 --> 00:26:55,725
It was stupid.

754
00:26:56,219 --> 00:26:58,296
I mean, there were... So there were hidden

755
00:26:58,296 --> 00:27:00,453
rules. Right? So I guess that is...

756
00:27:01,252 --> 00:27:01,752
But

757
00:27:03,422 --> 00:27:04,614
I mean, to sit down,

758
00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:07,396
deal yourself all the stuff out. Outright, look

759
00:27:07,396 --> 00:27:08,906
at your card and say, okay. I'm a

760
00:27:08,906 --> 00:27:09,304
cowboy,

761
00:27:10,828 --> 00:27:11,963
on a steel horse.

762
00:27:12,653 --> 00:27:12,732
But,

763
00:27:14,557 --> 00:27:16,301
anyways, so I I do that,

764
00:27:17,016 --> 00:27:17,516
and

765
00:27:17,888 --> 00:27:18,523
I could say,

766
00:27:19,173 --> 00:27:21,007
what do I want right now? Right? Exactly.

767
00:27:21,246 --> 00:27:22,043
What do I wanna do?

768
00:27:24,035 --> 00:27:25,151
And then when I get to the show

769
00:27:25,151 --> 00:27:28,031
get same thing. Right? So Yeah. And what

770
00:27:28,031 --> 00:27:31,760
is this character's objective, which was the same

771
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:32,895
question that those

772
00:27:33,506 --> 00:27:35,987
testers had? Right? So you if you put

773
00:27:35,987 --> 00:27:37,125
yourself in the

774
00:27:38,058 --> 00:27:40,687
in the seat of the no gun player,

775
00:27:41,882 --> 00:27:43,316
and you're like, okay. Well,

776
00:27:44,449 --> 00:27:46,207
here's what I think I would maybe do

777
00:27:46,207 --> 00:27:47,885
a on the first turn,

778
00:27:48,684 --> 00:27:50,842
and here's what I think my end goal

779
00:27:50,842 --> 00:27:51,082
is.

780
00:27:51,721 --> 00:27:54,053
So it can just inform your teach whatever.

781
00:27:54,292 --> 00:27:56,069
You won't even have to play the whole

782
00:27:56,366 --> 00:27:57,563
game. Yeah. But... Yeah yeah.

783
00:27:58,520 --> 00:27:59,020
So

784
00:27:59,397 --> 00:27:59,897
so

785
00:28:00,274 --> 00:28:02,029
now you say that stuff, It makes a

786
00:28:02,029 --> 00:28:04,353
lot more sense, and I think I just

787
00:28:04,353 --> 00:28:06,361
kinda wrote off solo play testing

788
00:28:06,734 --> 00:28:08,797
as, like, I'm bad at this. So I'm

789
00:28:08,797 --> 00:28:09,828
just never gonna do it.

790
00:28:11,034 --> 00:28:12,230
Shannon I talk... Can I talk a little

791
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:13,744
bit about the process that I do use?

792
00:28:14,063 --> 00:28:16,454
Yeah. Please. For others that may in this

793
00:28:16,454 --> 00:28:17,251
same situation.

794
00:28:18,048 --> 00:28:18,548
So

795
00:28:19,975 --> 00:28:21,728
I this is gonna sound so stupid, But

796
00:28:21,808 --> 00:28:23,083
I literally... I just...

797
00:28:24,118 --> 00:28:27,305
I sit down and I basically solo play

798
00:28:27,305 --> 00:28:28,341
test the game in my head.

799
00:28:30,745 --> 00:28:33,373
But what I'm doing is I attempt to

800
00:28:33,373 --> 00:28:34,510
think of scenarios

801
00:28:35,922 --> 00:28:37,218
that were our problematic.

802
00:28:37,768 --> 00:28:39,599
Or III use the old Matt Riddle line.

803
00:28:39,838 --> 00:28:41,351
Where's the fun? Right? And I say to

804
00:28:41,351 --> 00:28:42,942
myself. I can I'll sit there I'll close

805
00:28:42,942 --> 00:28:44,557
my eyes, and I'll I'll kind of walk

806
00:28:44,614 --> 00:28:45,432
myself through

807
00:28:45,902 --> 00:28:47,490
what am Excited about doing in the game?

808
00:28:47,648 --> 00:28:48,919
It's my turn, what can I do?

809
00:28:49,713 --> 00:28:50,213
And

810
00:28:51,618 --> 00:28:52,809
I'll be like, oh, because you could do

811
00:28:52,809 --> 00:28:54,317
this in this, and I'm like, oh,

812
00:28:55,285 --> 00:28:56,397
But what am I gonna do in the

813
00:28:56,397 --> 00:28:58,541
main section here? Like, how's that gonna of

814
00:28:58,541 --> 00:28:58,780
work?

815
00:28:59,494 --> 00:29:01,186
Like, what happens on

816
00:29:01,559 --> 00:29:03,903
for instance? I'm working on this this crib

817
00:29:03,962 --> 00:29:04,681
game right now.

818
00:29:06,996 --> 00:29:07,496
And

819
00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:10,827
you're trying to build something, and I'm like,

820
00:29:11,067 --> 00:29:11,806
what happens

821
00:29:12,678 --> 00:29:15,309
with all these resources instead using in the

822
00:29:15,309 --> 00:29:15,809
last

823
00:29:16,506 --> 00:29:18,021
round of the game, the last couple rounds

824
00:29:18,021 --> 00:29:19,855
of the game when I've already completed this

825
00:29:19,855 --> 00:29:21,551
thing. How do I

826
00:29:22,024 --> 00:29:24,021
like, how does that even work anymore? Because,

827
00:29:24,181 --> 00:29:25,779
you know, and I'm like, oh,

828
00:29:26,418 --> 00:29:27,696
well, I can do it this way. Right?

829
00:29:27,856 --> 00:29:28,256
But, like,

830
00:29:29,470 --> 00:29:31,630
I have to, like, kind of play it

831
00:29:31,630 --> 00:29:32,910
in my head to do that. And I...

832
00:29:33,069 --> 00:29:34,509
It's it's silly. Because when you say it

833
00:29:34,670 --> 00:29:36,109
loud. To me that actually sounds like it

834
00:29:36,109 --> 00:29:38,109
should be harder than sitting down and playing

835
00:29:38,109 --> 00:29:41,002
it. In person, like, by yourself, like, physically,

836
00:29:41,481 --> 00:29:43,080
but it's not for me. For me, that

837
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,158
is easier. To just sit down and walk

838
00:29:45,158 --> 00:29:46,037
through it in my head.

839
00:29:47,635 --> 00:29:48,329
I think

840
00:29:48,845 --> 00:29:49,980
my problem is

841
00:29:50,591 --> 00:29:52,679
when I sit down with the cards

842
00:29:53,687 --> 00:29:55,115
or the board or whatever,

843
00:29:57,118 --> 00:29:59,505
well, for 1, I've taken the game that

844
00:29:59,505 --> 00:30:00,005
far

845
00:30:00,619 --> 00:30:02,608
to that point for that to happen for

846
00:30:02,608 --> 00:30:04,677
me to then say, well, this was bad.

847
00:30:07,083 --> 00:30:08,756
But this other way, it allows me to

848
00:30:08,756 --> 00:30:10,589
do that earlier, but I think the big

849
00:30:10,589 --> 00:30:11,865
block for me is when I sit down

850
00:30:11,865 --> 00:30:12,582
with those cards.

851
00:30:13,554 --> 00:30:15,410
I am now kind of physically

852
00:30:18,499 --> 00:30:20,434
my brain is physically contained

853
00:30:20,892 --> 00:30:22,407
into dealing with what is in front of

854
00:30:22,407 --> 00:30:22,806
me. Right?

855
00:30:23,778 --> 00:30:24,278
So

856
00:30:25,294 --> 00:30:27,287
it's the random card combo that I got.

857
00:30:27,447 --> 00:30:29,042
Right? That I'm looking at in my hand

858
00:30:29,042 --> 00:30:30,398
or whatever. And I know, like you said

859
00:30:30,398 --> 00:30:31,754
before you could stack that. You can set

860
00:30:31,754 --> 00:30:32,892
it up a certain way

861
00:30:34,083 --> 00:30:35,360
but if I'm gonna do that,

862
00:30:36,477 --> 00:30:38,792
I'm already doing the brain processing, thinking of

863
00:30:38,792 --> 00:30:40,308
it through myself. Right?

864
00:30:42,633 --> 00:30:43,133
And,

865
00:30:43,585 --> 00:30:44,458
you know, for me,

866
00:30:45,173 --> 00:30:46,228
having Ocd

867
00:30:47,077 --> 00:30:47,815
means that

868
00:30:48,267 --> 00:30:49,005
my brain

869
00:30:49,393 --> 00:30:51,695
is always, like, running in the background on

870
00:30:51,695 --> 00:30:52,727
just random stuff.

871
00:30:53,601 --> 00:30:56,879
So sometimes, I can choose to assign those

872
00:30:57,189 --> 00:31:00,531
background tasks to something useful, like, let's just

873
00:31:00,531 --> 00:31:02,441
think about this game design obsessively for a

874
00:31:02,441 --> 00:31:04,590
while. And then my brain will call out

875
00:31:04,590 --> 00:31:06,102
problems as I'm doing that.

876
00:31:07,389 --> 00:31:08,979
And so I realize that's not for everyone,

877
00:31:10,091 --> 00:31:12,499
but it it works for me. So,

878
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:13,747
yeah.

879
00:31:14,798 --> 00:31:17,350
Yeah. I think I think that's that's pretty

880
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:17,749
similar.

881
00:31:18,786 --> 00:31:19,924
I think the 1

882
00:31:20,780 --> 00:31:23,412
advantage I see to having it on the

883
00:31:23,412 --> 00:31:23,810
table.

884
00:31:24,464 --> 00:31:26,382
Is that if I were doing that same

885
00:31:26,382 --> 00:31:28,538
thing in my head, I think I would

886
00:31:28,538 --> 00:31:31,230
maybe mess some sequencing thing up, or I'd

887
00:31:31,429 --> 00:31:33,896
I assume that the transition from this phase

888
00:31:33,896 --> 00:31:35,090
to this phase is smooth.

889
00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:37,875
Yes. I wouldn't realize that it is not.

890
00:31:38,194 --> 00:31:40,582
But as a problem feedback you can get

891
00:31:40,582 --> 00:31:43,711
from people too. Right? It's not it's not

892
00:31:43,711 --> 00:31:45,309
a thing you can only come up with

893
00:31:45,309 --> 00:31:47,466
on your own. Right right. That is though...

894
00:31:47,785 --> 00:31:48,285
So

895
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:50,200
with the game hap has a Cad that,

896
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,059
the that game has several

897
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:53,960
sections to it as you play. You know,

898
00:31:54,359 --> 00:31:56,440
you you get cards, then you throw cards,

899
00:31:56,599 --> 00:31:58,095
then you draft things, then you

900
00:31:59,489 --> 00:32:01,481
and these 3 to 4 main sections of

901
00:32:01,481 --> 00:32:04,271
the game had lousy transition points.

902
00:32:05,227 --> 00:32:05,727
And

903
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:09,395
we saw that a little bit in the

904
00:32:09,395 --> 00:32:12,112
in the, like, like, in the solo... They

905
00:32:12,112 --> 00:32:14,050
snow. In the solo testing, we completely

906
00:32:15,164 --> 00:32:16,682
miss that. And then we did kind of,

907
00:32:16,762 --> 00:32:18,440
just, like, messing around through in the cards,

908
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:19,878
and then it I started to click, like,

909
00:32:20,038 --> 00:32:21,257
oh, this could be

910
00:32:21,956 --> 00:32:24,049
wonky when you do this. And sure enough,

911
00:32:24,209 --> 00:32:25,727
we brought to the play test like this

912
00:32:25,727 --> 00:32:27,564
is wonky when you have to do these

913
00:32:27,564 --> 00:32:27,804
things.

914
00:32:29,322 --> 00:32:30,760
And they were, like, cut part of this

915
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,412
game, but the feedback was consistently, I love

916
00:32:33,412 --> 00:32:35,569
every part of it. I don't love moving

917
00:32:35,569 --> 00:32:36,528
between every part of it.

918
00:32:37,727 --> 00:32:38,706
And that was

919
00:32:39,579 --> 00:32:42,133
you know, that... That's stuff. But like, don't

920
00:32:42,133 --> 00:32:42,692
got anything,

921
00:32:43,171 --> 00:32:44,847
but cut the way that it goes between

922
00:32:44,847 --> 00:32:47,721
them. Like, great. Great. We'll we'll do that.

923
00:32:47,881 --> 00:32:48,120
You know,

924
00:32:49,092 --> 00:32:51,823
So anyways, yeah. So I do think that

925
00:32:53,235 --> 00:32:55,249
the transitional stuff is

926
00:32:56,276 --> 00:32:57,863
you... I would miss that in my head

927
00:32:57,863 --> 00:33:00,164
as well because I think we tend to

928
00:33:00,164 --> 00:33:01,037
gloss over that.

929
00:33:01,989 --> 00:33:04,394
I'm looking for interact problems I'm looking for,

930
00:33:04,555 --> 00:33:06,234
but what will I do on turn 7

931
00:33:06,234 --> 00:33:07,595
when we get to this point, you know,

932
00:33:09,515 --> 00:33:11,769
I'm not thinking through those little pieces So

933
00:33:11,849 --> 00:33:13,687
I think that's that's a really, really good

934
00:33:13,687 --> 00:33:16,004
0.1

935
00:33:16,004 --> 00:33:18,002
thing I need to do more of that

936
00:33:18,082 --> 00:33:19,621
I don't do enough is

937
00:33:21,052 --> 00:33:24,005
Yeah. Kinda not not writing, like, a flow

938
00:33:24,005 --> 00:33:26,079
chart or or making an Automaton or wherever,

939
00:33:26,239 --> 00:33:29,201
I mean. But but saying, alright. This player

940
00:33:29,201 --> 00:33:31,664
is gonna going to strictly pursue this strategy.

941
00:33:31,982 --> 00:33:34,048
This player strictly pursues this strategy.

942
00:33:35,479 --> 00:33:36,512
That's 1 thing you can do.

943
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,308
To test the edges. But,

944
00:33:40,659 --> 00:33:42,089
yeah. III

945
00:33:42,089 --> 00:33:43,360
think it could go really far with it.

946
00:33:44,234 --> 00:33:45,839
I mean, you could make flow charts for,

947
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:47,435
like, what each player is supposed to do.

948
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:51,666
So there's opportunities that I I haven't even

949
00:33:51,666 --> 00:33:53,821
delved into, but I just kinda keep it

950
00:33:53,821 --> 00:33:55,988
simple and just now, play comes to this

951
00:33:55,988 --> 00:33:56,386
person,

952
00:33:57,103 --> 00:33:58,615
you know, draw all the pieces out of

953
00:33:58,615 --> 00:34:00,287
bag. These are their choices. These are their

954
00:34:00,287 --> 00:34:00,605
cards.

955
00:34:01,162 --> 00:34:02,117
They could do this or this.

956
00:34:03,567 --> 00:34:04,763
But, you know, you don't get to, like,

957
00:34:05,481 --> 00:34:06,917
since you know everything, you can't...

958
00:34:07,794 --> 00:34:09,469
Yeah. You don't get to explore the the

959
00:34:09,469 --> 00:34:11,144
area of of of the unknown. That's basically...

960
00:34:11,304 --> 00:34:12,500
Yeah. That's the worst part of it.

961
00:34:14,273 --> 00:34:16,510
So... And which is which is the game.

962
00:34:16,830 --> 00:34:18,188
You know, the the unknown,

963
00:34:18,827 --> 00:34:20,346
what what the other players are going to

964
00:34:20,346 --> 00:34:22,193
do is is what a game is.

965
00:34:24,021 --> 00:34:26,486
So, yeah. It's it's kinda limited in that

966
00:34:26,486 --> 00:34:27,678
way for sure. But, you know,

967
00:34:29,364 --> 00:34:33,355
Yeah. Testing testing different strategies is definitely something

968
00:34:33,355 --> 00:34:34,653
you can do that can be

969
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:37,266
it could be early in the design. It

970
00:34:37,266 --> 00:34:39,293
can be late in the design Rob Da

971
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:42,365
talks about this, with with his designs. He

972
00:34:42,365 --> 00:34:44,984
he does solo testing as as, like 4

973
00:34:44,984 --> 00:34:45,302
players.

974
00:34:47,064 --> 00:34:49,294
And he he has this really interesting thing

975
00:34:49,294 --> 00:34:50,330
that he says about it.

976
00:34:51,843 --> 00:34:52,343
So

977
00:34:53,357 --> 00:34:55,189
he he always has... I don't know the

978
00:34:55,189 --> 00:34:56,065
same player colors.

979
00:34:56,876 --> 00:34:57,615
In prototypes,

980
00:34:58,069 --> 00:35:01,012
and so red is always an aggressive player.

981
00:35:01,331 --> 00:35:03,183
There you go. And green

982
00:35:03,652 --> 00:35:06,117
I think it's his favorite color, so it

983
00:35:06,117 --> 00:35:07,651
plays like he would play

984
00:35:08,026 --> 00:35:10,411
and blue has this other objective.

985
00:35:11,922 --> 00:35:13,059
I think it sounds

986
00:35:13,449 --> 00:35:14,588
a little bit

987
00:35:15,047 --> 00:35:16,586
while to just

988
00:35:18,244 --> 00:35:20,881
memorize those things and and do them. But

989
00:35:20,961 --> 00:35:22,580
I do something similar. So

990
00:35:23,131 --> 00:35:25,669
with my testing of, and it was also

991
00:35:25,669 --> 00:35:27,494
the night that the skeletons came to life.

992
00:35:30,049 --> 00:35:32,842
I would say, like, this player is trying

993
00:35:32,842 --> 00:35:35,316
to dig up worms and get bones,

994
00:35:36,753 --> 00:35:39,790
because that's their money. And this player trying

995
00:35:39,790 --> 00:35:41,853
to beat everybody up, and this player is

996
00:35:41,853 --> 00:35:43,361
just trying to pull hair, so it can

997
00:35:43,361 --> 00:35:43,996
come back to life.

998
00:35:46,633 --> 00:35:48,225
But No. What I said suggest this is

999
00:35:48,225 --> 00:35:50,214
a gamer or did this happen? 10 Sorry.

1000
00:35:50,373 --> 00:35:52,522
Yeah. There's... This... While it happened, but I'm

1001
00:35:52,522 --> 00:35:53,397
making a game about it.

1002
00:35:55,483 --> 00:35:57,079
But what I did, I took it a

1003
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:58,616
step further from Rob's

1004
00:35:59,313 --> 00:36:02,026
idea, and I took little pieces of paper

1005
00:36:02,026 --> 00:36:04,664
and wrote down those notes,

1006
00:36:05,617 --> 00:36:08,577
instead instead of memorizing these, like, player heuristic.

1007
00:36:10,552 --> 00:36:11,824
And that way you can have it be

1008
00:36:11,824 --> 00:36:14,127
more specific to that game. Right? Like, this

1009
00:36:14,127 --> 00:36:16,590
game is probably gonna have these 5 strategies.

1010
00:36:16,828 --> 00:36:18,576
Let's test these 5 strategies.

1011
00:36:19,147 --> 00:36:21,691
What does strategy 3 look like when it's

1012
00:36:21,691 --> 00:36:24,234
against strategy 1 and strategy 1,

1013
00:36:25,665 --> 00:36:27,572
you know, it it all depends on how

1014
00:36:27,572 --> 00:36:30,159
much time you have for

1015
00:36:30,617 --> 00:36:33,030
for solo testing because you can always get

1016
00:36:33,248 --> 00:36:34,546
different play testers

1017
00:36:35,481 --> 00:36:38,469
that will have their own strategies, but if

1018
00:36:39,006 --> 00:36:41,079
play testing sessions are few and far between,

1019
00:36:42,036 --> 00:36:43,632
you might be able to just recreate this

1020
00:36:43,632 --> 00:36:45,546
on your own. I mean, you designed it.

1021
00:36:45,786 --> 00:36:47,755
You should have some idea of what

1022
00:36:48,192 --> 00:36:50,577
the strategies are. Like, there be people that

1023
00:36:50,577 --> 00:36:51,848
try to break it. They try to come

1024
00:36:51,848 --> 00:36:54,551
up with a a strategy you didn't anticipate,

1025
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:55,346
and that's great.

1026
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,839
But there's only gonna be so many of

1027
00:36:57,839 --> 00:36:58,159
those.

1028
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,119
Right? Like, I mean, you're gonna you're gonna

1029
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,359
know most of them off the top of

1030
00:37:03,359 --> 00:37:05,692
your head just by thinking about it.

1031
00:37:08,566 --> 00:37:10,163
Well, and you could deliberately try to come

1032
00:37:10,163 --> 00:37:11,222
up with, like, some

1033
00:37:11,599 --> 00:37:13,809
game breaking strategies. But, yeah, I mean, you're

1034
00:37:13,929 --> 00:37:15,382
the end of the day you're only 1

1035
00:37:15,438 --> 00:37:17,424
brain. Right doing this. So,

1036
00:37:18,298 --> 00:37:20,523
yeah, you're you're probably gonna miss that that

1037
00:37:20,523 --> 00:37:22,519
that that strategy that's right in front of

1038
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:24,263
your face that breaks the whole game, but

1039
00:37:25,372 --> 00:37:26,244
maybe not. Yeah.

1040
00:37:33,672 --> 00:37:35,590
We did it. We covered the topic.

1041
00:37:36,724 --> 00:37:38,644
We did. We covered the topic. So, I

1042
00:37:38,644 --> 00:37:40,664
mean, what are the... Let's pull some quick

1043
00:37:40,805 --> 00:37:43,125
lessons learned here? I think that, you know,

1044
00:37:43,204 --> 00:37:44,485
we do this sometimes, I think it's worth

1045
00:37:44,485 --> 00:37:46,739
doing around I think for me, look, let's

1046
00:37:46,739 --> 00:37:48,659
all say, well, 1 of something that we

1047
00:37:48,659 --> 00:37:50,659
came away with this from. For me, it

1048
00:37:50,659 --> 00:37:52,659
was that, apparently, I do solo play test.

1049
00:37:53,073 --> 00:37:54,742
And thanks to Joe I now know that

1050
00:37:54,821 --> 00:37:56,649
I sold a play test. That was gonna

1051
00:37:56,649 --> 00:37:57,546
be my takeaway.

1052
00:38:00,958 --> 00:38:02,235
Alright. Robbie, you have to go then.

1053
00:38:03,113 --> 00:38:05,588
Oh, just just just that I wish that

1054
00:38:05,668 --> 00:38:07,025
I could be like, so many of these

1055
00:38:07,025 --> 00:38:09,155
other designers that just have a regular test

1056
00:38:09,274 --> 00:38:10,628
in group and get it... Can get out

1057
00:38:10,628 --> 00:38:12,164
to 1 easily. And

1058
00:38:13,018 --> 00:38:13,894
and, you know, I I...

1059
00:38:14,690 --> 00:38:16,284
My been starting out my preference was to

1060
00:38:16,284 --> 00:38:17,478
just set the game up and play through

1061
00:38:17,478 --> 00:38:20,362
it and play through. And, it's useful, but

1062
00:38:20,362 --> 00:38:23,551
it's not it's not what game design is.

1063
00:38:23,790 --> 00:38:25,805
I think this is an important tool, but

1064
00:38:27,314 --> 00:38:30,110
don't be mistaken and you take the game

1065
00:38:30,110 --> 00:38:31,628
2 people, put it in front of them,

1066
00:38:31,868 --> 00:38:34,345
and don't be afraid for it to break.

1067
00:38:34,838 --> 00:38:36,773
If it breaks and it's a complete failure

1068
00:38:37,469 --> 00:38:38,346
who cares.

1069
00:38:38,903 --> 00:38:40,019
Now, you've got...

1070
00:38:40,896 --> 00:38:42,512
You've probably have more skill

1071
00:38:43,143 --> 00:38:45,698
designing, than someone else who hasn't made a

1072
00:38:45,698 --> 00:38:47,236
game and had it fail miserably

1073
00:38:47,614 --> 00:38:49,291
that you're gonna be able to pull from

1074
00:38:49,291 --> 00:38:50,728
because you know what those mistakes are.

1075
00:38:52,498 --> 00:38:54,087
There's a story of study that, like,

1076
00:38:55,676 --> 00:38:56,652
people who

1077
00:38:57,742 --> 00:38:59,821
yes them questions. There's 2 groups. Like the

1078
00:38:59,821 --> 00:39:01,328
group that knows the answer to the question,

1079
00:39:01,645 --> 00:39:03,864
they're, you know, so good at come pulling

1080
00:39:03,864 --> 00:39:05,371
the answer out again repeatedly.

1081
00:39:05,847 --> 00:39:07,689
But the group of people that don't know

1082
00:39:07,689 --> 00:39:09,047
the answer to the question and get it

1083
00:39:09,047 --> 00:39:11,205
wrong, and then are told the correct answer,

1084
00:39:11,684 --> 00:39:13,842
they'd never forget what the correct answer is.

1085
00:39:14,002 --> 00:39:15,201
So there has to be, like a parable

1086
00:39:15,201 --> 00:39:16,160
to that to design. Like,

1087
00:39:16,894 --> 00:39:19,054
you make these mistakes. And when you do,

1088
00:39:19,614 --> 00:39:21,454
you're gonna be better for it. And and

1089
00:39:21,454 --> 00:39:22,735
not only that, you're gonna be better than

1090
00:39:22,735 --> 00:39:24,494
the people who've never made the mistakes.

1091
00:39:25,148 --> 00:39:26,497
So failure great,

1092
00:39:27,211 --> 00:39:28,243
at least tell yourself that.

1093
00:39:29,195 --> 00:39:31,735
But but I but really, it is it

1094
00:39:31,735 --> 00:39:34,297
is true. Yeah. I I have heard that

1095
00:39:34,297 --> 00:39:35,890
parable. It was... I think it was... If

1096
00:39:35,890 --> 00:39:38,200
you teach a designer to fish, they'll know

1097
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,554
how to fish, but if you teach them

1098
00:39:39,554 --> 00:39:41,466
to design, they'll know how to design.

1099
00:39:42,753 --> 00:39:44,738
Yeah. And then they usually... It's always wood

1100
00:39:44,738 --> 00:39:47,834
fish, wooden fish and then wow. Well, I'll

1101
00:39:47,834 --> 00:39:49,819
it do for don't need the 1 design.

1102
00:39:51,501 --> 00:39:53,404
Yeah. I'd... No. That's a great point though,

1103
00:39:54,991 --> 00:39:56,736
don't just solo test your game.

1104
00:39:57,529 --> 00:39:58,798
Put it put it in front of other

1105
00:39:58,798 --> 00:40:00,885
people. Put it in front of people online.

1106
00:40:01,204 --> 00:40:03,277
You use use break my game,

1107
00:40:04,075 --> 00:40:04,814
try to get

1108
00:40:05,590 --> 00:40:08,063
play testers through the the building the game,

1109
00:40:08,860 --> 00:40:09,515
discord to,

1110
00:40:11,595 --> 00:40:13,515
go to Produce spiel online.

1111
00:40:14,474 --> 00:40:17,375
There's there's a lot of online options. And

1112
00:40:19,127 --> 00:40:20,557
Similar to Solo testing,

1113
00:40:21,192 --> 00:40:23,734
testing online isn't gonna give you the exact

1114
00:40:23,734 --> 00:40:24,234
same

1115
00:40:24,608 --> 00:40:26,833
information as testing in person would.

1116
00:40:27,564 --> 00:40:30,356
Sometimes it might be, the feedback becomes this

1117
00:40:30,356 --> 00:40:32,293
is feedback about your digital

1118
00:40:32,750 --> 00:40:34,665
implementation instead of about the game.

1119
00:40:36,119 --> 00:40:37,960
Or, you know, you just didn't get the

1120
00:40:38,119 --> 00:40:40,139
Ui to work right. And so

1121
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,199
that got in the way of of people

1122
00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:43,960
being able to give you good feedback on

1123
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:44,280
your game.

1124
00:40:45,012 --> 00:40:46,923
That type of stuff is gonna happen. But...

1125
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,630
So if you can't get with other groups,

1126
00:40:50,188 --> 00:40:51,302
there's stuff like that,

1127
00:40:53,387 --> 00:40:55,694
But, yeah, I can't I can't fix the

1128
00:40:55,694 --> 00:40:57,682
whole living far away problem.

1129
00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:01,908
I'm sitting here trying to figure out how

1130
00:41:02,067 --> 00:41:04,288
Jonathan Cha or test his game solo. I

1131
00:41:04,288 --> 00:41:05,898
just... There's just no ways. There's

1132
00:41:07,064 --> 00:41:10,017
so the the holiday ones? Or any of

1133
00:41:10,017 --> 00:41:11,527
his any of his puzzles and stuff like...

1134
00:41:11,845 --> 00:41:13,355
Yeah. That's a difficult.

1135
00:41:13,832 --> 00:41:15,683
I could do it if every puzzle

1136
00:41:16,074 --> 00:41:18,387
somehow related to what I ate the previous

1137
00:41:18,387 --> 00:41:21,178
day? There. I could... I could... I would

1138
00:41:21,178 --> 00:41:22,853
fail every time. I would never remember.

1139
00:41:23,491 --> 00:41:25,326
I for the last 4 days have been,

1140
00:41:25,405 --> 00:41:27,090
like, half dinner last night.

1141
00:41:27,883 --> 00:41:29,074
And then I think about it I had

1142
00:41:29,074 --> 00:41:30,980
for the last 2 weeks, except for the

1143
00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:31,536
day before,

1144
00:41:32,488 --> 00:41:34,235
and then finally like, oh, right. Right. Right.

1145
00:41:34,473 --> 00:41:36,001
That's sort and then an hour later, I

1146
00:41:36,081 --> 00:41:38,713
I play the same game. It's boring. It's

1147
00:41:38,713 --> 00:41:39,271
sucky game.

1148
00:41:41,106 --> 00:41:43,100
Coming soon. The kitchen catch up,

1149
00:41:44,296 --> 00:41:44,796
from

1150
00:41:45,901 --> 00:41:48,282
Wasn't Cha and Jason's Sling list. Yeah. I

1151
00:41:48,282 --> 00:41:51,217
made that. What's for dinner or what was

1152
00:41:51,217 --> 00:41:51,773
for dinner?

1153
00:41:52,503 --> 00:41:52,741
Right.

1154
00:41:56,632 --> 00:41:57,132
Into

1155
00:41:57,506 --> 00:41:57,824
game,

1156
00:41:58,539 --> 00:41:59,809
you go through your fridge.

1157
00:42:02,129 --> 00:42:04,121
Figure out which stuff is missing that you

1158
00:42:04,121 --> 00:42:04,440
bought.

1159
00:42:06,034 --> 00:42:08,426
You know, there's no more spaghetti noodles, and

1160
00:42:08,426 --> 00:42:09,781
there's no more sauce.

1161
00:42:10,353 --> 00:42:12,660
So I probably had spaghetti either yesterday or

1162
00:42:12,660 --> 00:42:13,535
the day before.

1163
00:42:14,649 --> 00:42:16,717
Hey you could be on something here, Jason.

1164
00:42:19,363 --> 00:42:19,602
You know?

1165
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,192
That my, that's my pitch. The game where

1166
00:42:23,192 --> 00:42:24,946
you try to remember what you had last

1167
00:42:24,946 --> 00:42:26,780
night for dinner or other nights.

1168
00:42:27,834 --> 00:42:30,471
Lunch breakfast, it's all a mystery. Actually, for

1169
00:42:30,471 --> 00:42:32,069
breakfast, I usually have peanut butter toast, so

1170
00:42:32,149 --> 00:42:34,307
I generally can remember that. If I don't

1171
00:42:34,307 --> 00:42:35,826
have peanut butter toast, then I have no

1172
00:42:35,826 --> 00:42:37,379
clue what it was. So

1173
00:42:38,237 --> 00:42:38,557
also,

1174
00:42:39,276 --> 00:42:40,714
speaking of breakfast, I just wanna point out

1175
00:42:40,714 --> 00:42:42,951
this, sweet new... It's dirty right now with

1176
00:42:42,951 --> 00:42:44,885
the sweet new mug I got. Okay. While

1177
00:42:44,965 --> 00:42:46,724
I was in Alaska. You... Listeners you can't

1178
00:42:46,724 --> 00:42:47,525
see this, but it is...

1179
00:42:48,485 --> 00:42:51,045
It's maybe a company called native Northwest, and

1180
00:42:51,045 --> 00:42:51,739
they use

1181
00:42:52,420 --> 00:42:52,920
only

1182
00:42:53,940 --> 00:42:56,659
indigenous artists from that area, and they do

1183
00:42:56,659 --> 00:42:58,099
suffer for all... It's not just the Northwest.

1184
00:42:58,260 --> 00:43:00,513
It's it's a it's from all around. I've

1185
00:43:00,513 --> 00:43:02,826
actually seen another stores where they'll have, like,

1186
00:43:03,225 --> 00:43:04,820
tribes from that area artist,

1187
00:43:05,538 --> 00:43:06,995
who done stuff. And this is,

1188
00:43:07,373 --> 00:43:08,808
some really sweet drawing

1189
00:43:09,207 --> 00:43:09,946
from the

1190
00:43:11,924 --> 00:43:13,670
the coast Sal tribe,

1191
00:43:14,622 --> 00:43:15,257
and it is

1192
00:43:16,368 --> 00:43:18,208
of a Sas watch. And it's really cool.

1193
00:43:18,367 --> 00:43:20,353
And Very happy when I saw. I saw

1194
00:43:20,353 --> 00:43:21,385
1 day in a store when I was

1195
00:43:21,385 --> 00:43:23,451
in Alaska, and I was like, I want

1196
00:43:23,451 --> 00:43:25,039
that so bad. I don't need a coffee

1197
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:25,277
mug.

1198
00:43:25,849 --> 00:43:27,682
I still have this other awesome coffee mug

1199
00:43:27,682 --> 00:43:29,835
that I use, that I got from Brian

1200
00:43:29,994 --> 00:43:32,945
V. Nice. That says, on the inside, it

1201
00:43:32,945 --> 00:43:34,634
says, open mind open heart, and it's got

1202
00:43:34,634 --> 00:43:36,230
a cool pride heart on the front of

1203
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:37,985
it. Nice and I love it.

1204
00:43:39,741 --> 00:43:41,098
But I saw the next day I went

1205
00:43:41,098 --> 00:43:41,656
back. I said,

1206
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:43,989
still want it and so I bought it

1207
00:43:43,989 --> 00:43:45,269
because we were leaving that day, so I

1208
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:46,550
I had to get it so I did.

1209
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:49,190
And yeah. So now I have a display

1210
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:49,690
mug

1211
00:43:50,242 --> 00:43:51,753
from Brian, and now I have my current

1212
00:43:51,833 --> 00:43:53,901
Sas watch mug. And someday, I'll buy another

1213
00:43:53,901 --> 00:43:55,253
mug and then I'll have 2 display mugs

1214
00:43:55,253 --> 00:43:55,730
in my office.

1215
00:43:57,420 --> 00:43:59,260
I'm confused. Do you do you have 2

1216
00:43:59,260 --> 00:43:59,900
mugs total?

1217
00:44:01,260 --> 00:44:02,699
Oh, god, no. I have, like, all kinds

1218
00:44:02,699 --> 00:44:05,019
of them. Because the the 2 that I

1219
00:44:05,019 --> 00:44:07,589
keep out. I have the mug that I

1220
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:09,505
keep in my office now as a decoration,

1221
00:44:09,824 --> 00:44:11,500
and I have the Sas mug, And then

1222
00:44:11,579 --> 00:44:13,335
I have about 70 other old mugs.

1223
00:44:14,229 --> 00:44:17,026
From all around. Right places we've gone, things

1224
00:44:17,026 --> 00:44:19,023
the kids have made, because you don't use

1225
00:44:19,023 --> 00:44:20,142
the ones the kids made, because you don't

1226
00:44:20,142 --> 00:44:22,220
wanna accidentally, like, break them. So those just

1227
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:23,984
stay you know, and there... I guess I

1228
00:44:23,984 --> 00:44:25,730
could put those out on display too. Just

1229
00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:27,554
make my whole office just coffee mug theme.

1230
00:44:27,872 --> 00:44:29,459
Man you get a copy you.

1231
00:44:30,109 --> 00:44:31,623
It, like, if you use it, and then

1232
00:44:31,623 --> 00:44:33,057
you put it in the dishwasher and it

1233
00:44:33,057 --> 00:44:35,608
melts, you think they'll figure it's gone. They

1234
00:44:35,608 --> 00:44:37,282
won't have seen it for a year.

1235
00:44:38,014 --> 00:44:39,685
But then the... The day that it melts,

1236
00:44:39,844 --> 00:44:41,197
They'll be like, hey, dad. I was thinking,

1237
00:44:41,436 --> 00:44:42,948
what happened to that mug I made for

1238
00:44:42,948 --> 00:44:43,744
you. Okay?

1239
00:44:44,460 --> 00:44:45,097
And I'll be like,

1240
00:44:48,055 --> 00:44:49,987
Joe cal that I can put it in

1241
00:44:50,123 --> 00:44:52,294
in the dishwasher, and then it melted

1242
00:44:52,924 --> 00:44:54,682
so you can call them. Here's their number.

1243
00:44:55,242 --> 00:44:57,639
Yeah. Okay. That it That I was curious.

1244
00:44:57,798 --> 00:44:59,397
Yeah. That is a fun game.

1245
00:45:00,196 --> 00:45:01,015
Will they

1246
00:45:01,647 --> 00:45:02,999
notice that this is gone.

1247
00:45:03,555 --> 00:45:03,794
Like,

1248
00:45:04,668 --> 00:45:05,781
when you throw it in the trash. Like,

1249
00:45:05,860 --> 00:45:07,768
hey, it could be anything. You know? I

1250
00:45:07,768 --> 00:45:09,853
saw... Oh, go ahead. No I don't know.

1251
00:45:10,333 --> 00:45:11,452
Yeah. Just this stuffy.

1252
00:45:11,931 --> 00:45:13,528
They haven't this. I found in the corner.

1253
00:45:13,688 --> 00:45:15,445
It's been behind the dresser. It's going in

1254
00:45:15,445 --> 00:45:15,845
the trash.

1255
00:45:16,418 --> 00:45:17,612
And and sure enough, if it'll be, like

1256
00:45:17,612 --> 00:45:19,441
the next day. Where's is mister Pike here?

1257
00:45:19,998 --> 00:45:20,157
Anyway.

1258
00:45:21,192 --> 00:45:21,692
I

1259
00:45:22,385 --> 00:45:23,442
saw this amazing,

1260
00:45:25,422 --> 00:45:25,922
video

1261
00:45:26,374 --> 00:45:27,961
I was on Facebook. This lady is like,

1262
00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:30,182
I'm the worst parent ever. She said,

1263
00:45:30,738 --> 00:45:32,166
I like to go thrift,

1264
00:45:32,578 --> 00:45:34,323
and my daughter agreed to go with me.

1265
00:45:34,482 --> 00:45:35,831
She said so we went to the local

1266
00:45:35,831 --> 00:45:38,290
goodwill. The 1 I donate stuff too. I

1267
00:45:38,290 --> 00:45:39,797
was like well I know exactly where this

1268
00:45:39,797 --> 00:45:40,194
is going.

1269
00:45:40,924 --> 00:45:42,597
And the daughter comes over with this like,

1270
00:45:43,234 --> 00:45:45,146
it's like a hot plate thing like a,

1271
00:45:45,306 --> 00:45:46,899
you know, where you put, like, stuff like

1272
00:45:46,899 --> 00:45:48,652
that to it put hot stuff on, so

1273
00:45:48,652 --> 00:45:50,086
it doesn't melt your counter or whatever.

1274
00:45:51,139 --> 00:45:51,778
In anyways,

1275
00:45:52,817 --> 00:45:54,016
she brings it over and she's like, this

1276
00:45:54,016 --> 00:45:55,774
is mine. And she's like, oh, yeah, girl,

1277
00:45:55,854 --> 00:45:57,213
if it speaks to you, get it. She's

1278
00:45:57,213 --> 00:45:59,850
like, no. This is literally my. You donate

1279
00:45:59,850 --> 00:46:00,010
this.

1280
00:46:00,985 --> 00:46:02,985
She's like, so, I paid 3 99

1281
00:46:03,304 --> 00:46:05,065
to get back my child's art project because

1282
00:46:05,144 --> 00:46:06,265
I'm the worst mother ever.

1283
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:08,539
It's like

1284
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:11,719
that is amazing. That is awesome. Sometimes you

1285
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:12,519
gotta clear the clutter.

1286
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:14,280
It's true. It's true.

1287
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,574
If we kept everything our kids, it's

1288
00:46:17,646 --> 00:46:17,805
made,

1289
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:20,106
our house would be. We would be a

1290
00:46:20,106 --> 00:46:21,694
order house. Like, it just we would be.

1291
00:46:21,853 --> 00:46:23,599
Like, it would be papers everywhere.

1292
00:46:24,648 --> 00:46:26,800
So... Let's be honest. Let's be honest. It's

1293
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,634
crap, art. I mean, come on. Get real.

1294
00:46:28,794 --> 00:46:30,229
Like, not all of it. I be better

1295
00:46:30,229 --> 00:46:32,462
artist. Just joking. Have some of it framed

1296
00:46:32,462 --> 00:46:34,626
in my office. So... Yeah. Some it's actually

1297
00:46:34,626 --> 00:46:36,138
quite amazing. So they'll bring something I'm, like,

1298
00:46:36,217 --> 00:46:38,286
what though? Who who's this? Wow. Yeah. Impressive.

1299
00:46:38,922 --> 00:46:39,718
But I have

1300
00:46:40,766 --> 00:46:42,750
Pair of scissors, my daughter drew several years

1301
00:46:42,750 --> 00:46:46,002
ago, and a some mountains, my son drew,

1302
00:46:46,557 --> 00:46:47,271
several years ago.

1303
00:46:48,002 --> 00:46:49,752
And on each side of them. It's on

1304
00:46:49,752 --> 00:46:51,763
each side of my Jeremy Bar

1305
00:46:52,377 --> 00:46:54,858
sign. So... And I'm not gonna explain what

1306
00:46:54,858 --> 00:46:56,610
that is, if you know you know, Jeremy

1307
00:46:56,690 --> 00:46:57,645
Bear, me tell your friends.

1308
00:46:58,521 --> 00:47:00,592
So based on your expressions, I'm gonna say

1309
00:47:00,592 --> 00:47:01,865
you don't know, but that's okay.

1310
00:47:03,791 --> 00:47:05,540
That I just have a I have a

1311
00:47:05,540 --> 00:47:06,914
art print that

1312
00:47:07,369 --> 00:47:08,482
Brian's dad made.

1313
00:47:09,436 --> 00:47:09,833
Nice.

1314
00:47:10,629 --> 00:47:11,980
Nice. Are you the 1 that ended up

1315
00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:12,378
with that?

1316
00:47:13,907 --> 00:47:15,983
Oh, I... Mine's just a digital copy that

1317
00:47:16,143 --> 00:47:18,218
I printed out. Okay. Okay. Okay. Because I

1318
00:47:18,218 --> 00:47:20,134
know somebody has liked it and Brian was,

1319
00:47:20,214 --> 00:47:22,050
like, he said He'll send it to you.

1320
00:47:22,703 --> 00:47:24,219
So. That's amazing. Yeah.

1321
00:47:25,415 --> 00:47:25,654
Nice.

1322
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,250
I don't think I have anything else about

1323
00:47:32,449 --> 00:47:33,168
solo testing.

1324
00:47:38,922 --> 00:47:41,000
Yeah. I haven't have any... What about solo

1325
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,244
testing? Anything else to say about it. Oh,

1326
00:47:43,403 --> 00:47:44,437
I thought you said I don't think I

1327
00:47:44,437 --> 00:47:45,948
have anything about soul testing. I was like,

1328
00:47:46,107 --> 00:47:47,061
you said a lot though, Joe.

1329
00:47:48,413 --> 00:47:49,208
Actually, you know what?

1330
00:47:50,258 --> 00:47:52,012
I don't think any of us have really

1331
00:47:52,012 --> 00:47:52,331
done it.

1332
00:47:53,128 --> 00:47:55,120
Let's make a new definition for it. A

1333
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:56,316
really hard 1 to achieve.

1334
00:47:58,803 --> 00:47:59,282
You start.

1335
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:00,820
Unfortunately,

1336
00:48:01,917 --> 00:48:04,711
you can't we have a policy on this

1337
00:48:04,711 --> 00:48:06,707
show. The only peer person that's able to

1338
00:48:06,707 --> 00:48:07,766
give definitions

1339
00:48:08,797 --> 00:48:11,910
definitively is Jonathan Cha, and he didn't wanna

1340
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:14,783
hang out with us tonight. Yeah. So, yeah,

1341
00:48:15,182 --> 00:48:15,820
because of that,

1342
00:48:16,789 --> 00:48:18,692
we're not allowed to define anything per the

1343
00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:20,834
by laws of building a game that are

1344
00:48:20,834 --> 00:48:21,334
housed

1345
00:48:21,786 --> 00:48:23,293
somewhere in the discord if you can find

1346
00:48:23,293 --> 00:48:25,293
them. Let me know. Is that sure we

1347
00:48:25,293 --> 00:48:27,438
shouldn't just take a shot at defining euro

1348
00:48:27,438 --> 00:48:27,597
game.

1349
00:48:28,949 --> 00:48:29,449
No

1350
00:48:30,697 --> 00:48:32,445
No. No. No.

1351
00:48:33,493 --> 00:48:34,844
That was a very fun episode though.

1352
00:48:35,878 --> 00:48:36,037
And,

1353
00:48:36,911 --> 00:48:38,978
we will be doing more definitions in an

1354
00:48:38,978 --> 00:48:41,045
upcoming episode and I'm very excited about it.

1355
00:48:41,363 --> 00:48:42,476
I don't know what we're defining yet.

1356
00:48:43,528 --> 00:48:44,967
Jonathan gave us a list of things we

1357
00:48:44,967 --> 00:48:45,846
could define. And

1358
00:48:46,725 --> 00:48:48,802
I will do definition up episodes like that

1359
00:48:48,802 --> 00:48:51,255
with Jonathan and Emily, anytime they're available because

1360
00:48:51,855 --> 00:48:54,014
I just love them so much. Oh, the

1361
00:48:54,014 --> 00:48:56,014
episode is not the people that rotten awful

1362
00:48:56,014 --> 00:48:57,295
people, But the episodes are.

1363
00:48:59,214 --> 00:48:59,375
Yeah.

1364
00:49:00,424 --> 00:49:01,378
So well, hey, Y'all.

1365
00:49:02,094 --> 00:49:03,207
It's been great having you here.

1366
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:05,513
And this is a fun topic. It was

1367
00:49:05,513 --> 00:49:07,580
a little shorter than normal, but it was

1368
00:49:07,580 --> 00:49:08,455
solo. So, you know,

1369
00:49:09,425 --> 00:49:10,625
that that you don't play a whole game.

1370
00:49:10,944 --> 00:49:11,585
That's how it works.

1371
00:49:13,505 --> 00:49:13,984
You tell,

1372
00:49:14,864 --> 00:49:15,025
Joe,

1373
00:49:15,664 --> 00:49:17,824
last time, you suggested that if people wanted

1374
00:49:17,824 --> 00:49:19,436
to get ahold of you just delete their

1375
00:49:19,436 --> 00:49:20,866
social media and go to

1376
00:49:21,740 --> 00:49:24,363
the discord, and they'd find you there. I'm

1377
00:49:24,363 --> 00:49:26,508
back on the socials now. Oh, you are.

1378
00:49:26,747 --> 00:49:27,462
It's been 2 weeks.

1379
00:49:28,114 --> 00:49:30,507
Yeah. So you can find me everywhere by

1380
00:49:30,507 --> 00:49:33,061
logging in deleting your account and finding me

1381
00:49:33,061 --> 00:49:33,779
on the discord.

1382
00:49:36,268 --> 00:49:37,943
I feel set up. I feel silly.

1383
00:49:42,013 --> 00:49:43,210
Robbie, what about you?

1384
00:49:43,942 --> 00:49:45,215
If feel like you're on Blue Sky at

1385
00:49:45,215 --> 00:49:47,602
least. Yeah. I think I'm Robbie Berg there.

1386
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:52,637
You can go to... Facebook and search Ka

1387
00:49:52,717 --> 00:49:54,634
Walled City board game that'll take you to

1388
00:49:54,634 --> 00:49:54,794
that.

1389
00:49:55,593 --> 00:49:56,413
I'm gonna

1390
00:49:57,111 --> 00:49:59,284
honestly pitch like, My 1 of my band

1391
00:49:59,284 --> 00:50:01,601
members was gone to New Zealand, and he's

1392
00:50:01,601 --> 00:50:03,759
back. So we have the whole band back

1393
00:50:03,759 --> 00:50:05,917
together. Mh. So we're gonna start playing more

1394
00:50:05,917 --> 00:50:08,130
and maybe start recording and playing out more

1395
00:50:08,407 --> 00:50:10,790
And I went back and listened to this

1396
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:12,776
8 song set of original songs on on

1397
00:50:13,093 --> 00:50:16,032
Youtube. And I'm and III freaking... I love

1398
00:50:16,032 --> 00:50:18,355
it. I don't... I love it. That's awesome.

1399
00:50:18,755 --> 00:50:21,154
Let you... Let's go listen to it. And

1400
00:50:21,154 --> 00:50:23,234
if you hate it, whatever. But I don't

1401
00:50:23,234 --> 00:50:25,234
think you will. I think it's really damn

1402
00:50:25,234 --> 00:50:25,394
awesome.

1403
00:50:26,048 --> 00:50:29,158
Go to go to Youtube and search the

1404
00:50:29,158 --> 00:50:30,695
smell of authenticity

1405
00:50:31,471 --> 00:50:33,783
by left foot breaking, and that's no e

1406
00:50:33,783 --> 00:50:34,421
in breaking.

1407
00:50:35,074 --> 00:50:36,829
And, listen to that whole set of songs,

1408
00:50:36,988 --> 00:50:38,823
and you're gonna be like, Rob was wright.

1409
00:50:39,062 --> 00:50:41,295
These guys are really freaking good. And I

1410
00:50:41,295 --> 00:50:43,130
just, I'm not afraid to say it anymore.

1411
00:50:43,369 --> 00:50:45,296
I love these guys. They're fun. We're gonna

1412
00:50:45,296 --> 00:50:47,122
do more. We're gonna get better and even

1413
00:50:47,122 --> 00:50:48,630
better, and we're gonna put out some more

1414
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:50,536
music. So check that out. That's that's that's

1415
00:50:50,536 --> 00:50:53,249
me plugging myself. Forget game design. A game's

1416
00:50:53,249 --> 00:50:54,516
coming along. It's almost done. I like it.

1417
00:50:54,675 --> 00:50:56,101
I gotta write the rules. I'm just start

1418
00:50:56,101 --> 00:50:57,369
getting out there out out of the world

1419
00:50:57,369 --> 00:50:58,557
and play testing it. I like it.

1420
00:50:59,270 --> 00:51:01,438
It's fun. So we'll get it... We'll get

1421
00:51:01,438 --> 00:51:03,355
back to that soon. But we'll check out

1422
00:51:03,355 --> 00:51:05,433
some music for now. Well, I

1423
00:51:05,912 --> 00:51:08,170
went ahead and found this, and I'm gonna

1424
00:51:08,802 --> 00:51:11,348
subscribe to it right now. Noise. Now you

1425
00:51:11,348 --> 00:51:12,883
have 8 subscribers. So

1426
00:51:14,372 --> 00:51:16,362
just tracking that because that way, we know,

1427
00:51:16,839 --> 00:51:18,849
if you get a bunch subscribers from this

1428
00:51:18,849 --> 00:51:20,609
show. You'll know why. Is that all? Is

1429
00:51:20,609 --> 00:51:22,210
it 8... Well, some of those songs are

1430
00:51:22,210 --> 00:51:23,889
at, like, 300 plays or something...

1431
00:51:24,369 --> 00:51:26,289
Because this is subscribers to your channel. Not

1432
00:51:26,449 --> 00:51:28,084
Yeah Yeah. So, yeah. There's.

1433
00:51:28,616 --> 00:51:31,235
I think of those 300 plays, about 280

1434
00:51:31,235 --> 00:51:32,427
are probably me, but

1435
00:51:33,141 --> 00:51:34,491
Don't along with that. Well, I'll add to

1436
00:51:34,491 --> 00:51:34,888
the counts.

1437
00:51:35,523 --> 00:51:35,761
Yeah.

1438
00:51:38,002 --> 00:51:38,400
Awesome.

1439
00:51:39,434 --> 00:51:41,025
Great. Well, hey, listeners, if you wanna get

1440
00:51:41,025 --> 00:51:42,456
in touch with the podcast, you can of

1441
00:51:42,456 --> 00:51:43,411
course go to building the game.

1442
00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:46,931
Podcast dot com. There, you can find a

1443
00:51:46,931 --> 00:51:48,604
link to our discord, and then just go

1444
00:51:48,604 --> 00:51:50,914
straight there. You can delete our whole website

1445
00:51:50,914 --> 00:51:52,507
and then go to the discord. Don't do

1446
00:51:52,507 --> 00:51:52,588
that.

1447
00:51:54,351 --> 00:51:56,335
Also, you can go email us to building

1448
00:51:56,335 --> 00:51:57,842
game at gmail mail dot com.

1449
00:51:58,795 --> 00:52:00,223
If you feel the urge to do that,

1450
00:52:00,461 --> 00:52:01,517
you could instead

1451
00:52:02,223 --> 00:52:03,733
not do that and go to the discord.

1452
00:52:04,209 --> 00:52:05,322
You'll have more fun I promise.

1453
00:52:06,275 --> 00:52:07,388
And then finally,

1454
00:52:08,023 --> 00:52:10,510
am I play a song Sorry. I'm sorry.

1455
00:52:10,750 --> 00:52:12,030
I might play a song in the meet

1456
00:52:12,030 --> 00:52:13,309
up on Tuesdays. Come to the Tuesday meetup.

1457
00:52:13,550 --> 00:52:15,309
Yeah. Tuesday made up this week. Just before

1458
00:52:15,309 --> 00:52:16,110
this recording, We got

1459
00:52:16,844 --> 00:52:18,838
an awesome song that we are really enjoyed.

1460
00:52:19,157 --> 00:52:19,657
So

1461
00:52:20,194 --> 00:52:22,667
and but if you wanna you wanna keep

1462
00:52:22,667 --> 00:52:24,262
getting in touch with us or listening or

1463
00:52:24,262 --> 00:52:25,697
whatever. The easiest thing to do, of course.

1464
00:52:25,857 --> 00:52:28,737
Is keep coming back every single week. And

1465
00:52:28,737 --> 00:52:31,123
until next time, good night.

1466
00:52:32,157 --> 00:52:32,554
Night,

1467
00:52:33,191 --> 00:52:36,380
building the game building game? Which Jason and

1468
00:52:36,539 --> 00:52:39,389
France? With Jason and Brand, building the game,

1469
00:52:39,784 --> 00:52:42,650
building the game? Which Jason brands, which is

1470
00:52:42,650 --> 00:52:44,793
it it brand? The end of the episode.

1471
00:52:45,032 --> 00:52:46,460
That's... The technically queen's ends?