1
00:00:08,144 --> 00:00:08,644
Again

2
00:00:11,095 --> 00:00:13,647
at the end of the episode that's technical

3
00:00:13,647 --> 00:00:16,359
queen's. Hello, and welcome to building the game

4
00:00:16,359 --> 00:00:17,795
a documentary podcast.

5
00:00:18,369 --> 00:00:21,506
As sometimes, I am your host, Emily. And

6
00:00:21,565 --> 00:00:24,281
today, I am joined by the wonderful Ro

7
00:00:24,441 --> 00:00:25,480
Shock. Hey, Ro?

8
00:00:26,371 --> 00:00:28,440
Hey, Emily. Good to talk to you again.

9
00:00:28,998 --> 00:00:31,306
It's been like, forever. III

10
00:00:31,306 --> 00:00:31,863
never see you.

11
00:00:33,057 --> 00:00:35,206
I know it's been at least a week.

12
00:00:35,778 --> 00:00:37,770
No. It's been less than a week since

13
00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:39,602
I spent 6 hours in a car with

14
00:00:39,602 --> 00:00:41,912
you driving to Ohio. So

15
00:00:42,804 --> 00:00:45,037
Yeah. Whatever will we talk about, I haven't

16
00:00:45,037 --> 00:00:45,835
seen you in forever.

17
00:00:48,148 --> 00:00:50,381
Well, I mean, luckily, we do have a

18
00:00:50,381 --> 00:00:52,295
topic that's not us talking about being in

19
00:00:52,295 --> 00:00:53,903
a high. So I think we'll be alright.

20
00:00:54,539 --> 00:00:56,847
That's true. If you listen to 2 episodes

21
00:00:56,847 --> 00:00:58,360
ago, you heard all about us being in

22
00:00:58,598 --> 00:00:59,098
Ohio

23
00:00:59,474 --> 00:01:01,721
together at our booth no. What we're here

24
00:01:01,721 --> 00:01:03,556
to talk about today is our...

25
00:01:04,913 --> 00:01:06,748
How is the year going? So Ro and

26
00:01:06,828 --> 00:01:07,806
I did the

27
00:01:08,199 --> 00:01:10,517
kick off the year, what are our plans

28
00:01:10,517 --> 00:01:11,635
for 20 24.

29
00:01:12,195 --> 00:01:12,354
And,

30
00:01:13,074 --> 00:01:15,631
Jason was like, hey, Maybe maybe you could

31
00:01:15,631 --> 00:01:17,639
also fill us in part way along the

32
00:01:17,639 --> 00:01:19,490
way, and we'll do another 1 of these

33
00:01:19,546 --> 00:01:20,818
at the end of the year to sort

34
00:01:20,818 --> 00:01:20,977
of,

35
00:01:21,772 --> 00:01:23,838
put a bow on it, a Christmas or

36
00:01:23,918 --> 00:01:25,507
New Year's bow as it were.

37
00:01:27,193 --> 00:01:29,024
Some sort of bow, a not a denomination

38
00:01:29,024 --> 00:01:29,899
bow. I don't know.

39
00:01:30,934 --> 00:01:31,332
A bow.

40
00:01:32,446 --> 00:01:33,321
I'll put a partridge.

41
00:01:34,132 --> 00:01:36,918
Yeah on it. Exactly. 1 partridge.

42
00:01:38,670 --> 00:01:40,898
Yeah. So Ro, why don't you kick us

43
00:01:40,898 --> 00:01:43,229
off with you know, a reminder of what

44
00:01:43,229 --> 00:01:44,349
you were trying to do this year?

45
00:01:45,869 --> 00:01:48,349
Yeah. Yeah. So, I went back and and

46
00:01:48,349 --> 00:01:48,670
listened.

47
00:01:49,150 --> 00:01:50,430
I mostly remembered, but,

48
00:01:51,164 --> 00:01:52,920
the 1 I forgot slightly.

49
00:01:53,718 --> 00:01:55,313
I... That's the 3 things. I don't... I

50
00:01:55,313 --> 00:01:56,989
will just kinda do 1 at a time.

51
00:01:57,069 --> 00:01:57,947
And we can go back and forth a

52
00:01:57,947 --> 00:01:58,846
little bit, but

53
00:01:59,238 --> 00:02:00,913
I'd said, the 3 things I wanted to

54
00:02:00,913 --> 00:02:02,190
work on this year is I wanted to

55
00:02:02,190 --> 00:02:02,588
pitch more.

56
00:02:03,386 --> 00:02:04,444
I a bunch of designs

57
00:02:05,061 --> 00:02:07,693
that are pitch and hadn't been as good

58
00:02:07,693 --> 00:02:08,193
about

59
00:02:09,382 --> 00:02:10,734
getting a meeting set up with people. So

60
00:02:10,814 --> 00:02:11,610
I wanted to fix that.

61
00:02:12,803 --> 00:02:14,077
I said I was gonna help a friend

62
00:02:14,077 --> 00:02:14,554
with

63
00:02:15,907 --> 00:02:17,180
their kind of game company.

64
00:02:18,389 --> 00:02:20,310
The 1 about art and culture and games

65
00:02:20,310 --> 00:02:22,150
and and that stuff. That was number 2.

66
00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:24,169
And number 3 that I was considering

67
00:02:24,790 --> 00:02:25,930
starting a

68
00:02:26,564 --> 00:02:27,841
small publishing company myself,

69
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:29,677
with 2 player...

70
00:02:31,513 --> 00:02:32,551
Yeah. 2 player games,

71
00:02:33,748 --> 00:02:34,706
small box, small price,

72
00:02:35,918 --> 00:02:38,070
And yeah. So I'll just start with the

73
00:02:38,070 --> 00:02:38,389
first 1.

74
00:02:39,585 --> 00:02:41,121
I'm sure we'll get into the other ones

75
00:02:41,179 --> 00:02:43,433
later. Yep. The... So

76
00:02:44,382 --> 00:02:46,131
So far, Would give myself like, a b

77
00:02:46,131 --> 00:02:46,847
minus on this.

78
00:02:48,676 --> 00:02:52,016
Was a performance review? Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. No.

79
00:02:52,493 --> 00:02:52,811
I mean,

80
00:02:54,179 --> 00:02:56,177
III have this on on my, like, Twitter

81
00:02:56,177 --> 00:02:58,414
profile, but, intros inspection is a super superpower,

82
00:02:58,654 --> 00:03:01,211
So it's always good to be reflective.

83
00:03:02,264 --> 00:03:04,019
So, yeah, I would say, I I did

84
00:03:04,019 --> 00:03:06,252
end up going to gamma, which was, Gamma

85
00:03:06,491 --> 00:03:06,731
Expo.

86
00:03:08,964 --> 00:03:11,676
Hadn't been planned in January when I had

87
00:03:11,676 --> 00:03:13,446
made this and I also did end up

88
00:03:13,446 --> 00:03:14,323
going to Detachment con.

89
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,237
And, actually,

90
00:03:17,274 --> 00:03:18,550
I did some pitching at both of those,

91
00:03:20,145 --> 00:03:21,262
and actually, 1 publisher,

92
00:03:22,393 --> 00:03:24,934
has a couple of of games from Gamma

93
00:03:24,934 --> 00:03:25,967
that Ended up sending later.

94
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:27,500
And

95
00:03:28,271 --> 00:03:29,859
there's a little bit of snap too. That

96
00:03:29,859 --> 00:03:31,210
won't make it a long story, but, like,

97
00:03:32,259 --> 00:03:33,694
I... They said they wanted to copy the

98
00:03:33,694 --> 00:03:35,449
2 games, so boxed it up Fedex sit

99
00:03:35,449 --> 00:03:37,443
out there. They fat they. They the Fedex

100
00:03:37,443 --> 00:03:39,676
said it delivered, and then, like, you know,

101
00:03:39,836 --> 00:03:41,511
big publishers get busy and it's, like,

102
00:03:42,164 --> 00:03:43,601
couple weeks later they're like, hey. We can't

103
00:03:43,601 --> 00:03:45,436
find that we moved offices and it's gone.

104
00:03:45,676 --> 00:03:46,634
And I'm like, oh my god.

105
00:03:47,352 --> 00:03:48,629
The 1 was just a car game. Like,

106
00:03:48,789 --> 00:03:50,066
that was a big deal, but the other

107
00:03:50,066 --> 00:03:52,147
1 was, like, a much more difficult prototype

108
00:03:52,147 --> 00:03:52,464
to make.

109
00:03:53,178 --> 00:03:55,162
It had some custom pieces in it I

110
00:03:55,162 --> 00:03:57,066
was like, oh my god. But, actually,

111
00:03:58,113 --> 00:04:00,417
So yep, I... They... They... It messaged me

112
00:04:00,496 --> 00:04:01,847
a couple weeks before origins, and I was

113
00:04:01,847 --> 00:04:02,482
like, listen,

114
00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:04,389
I'll get you 1, but you're gonna have

115
00:04:04,389 --> 00:04:05,342
to wait to have to order it. They

116
00:04:05,342 --> 00:04:06,057
have too much stuff to do.

117
00:04:07,666 --> 00:04:09,979
And so, actually, I was at Origins, I

118
00:04:09,979 --> 00:04:12,611
got an email that they said, someone someone

119
00:04:12,611 --> 00:04:13,350
in the company

120
00:04:13,807 --> 00:04:15,163
walked in 1 day and said, here's a

121
00:04:15,163 --> 00:04:16,200
box. It has your name on it.

122
00:04:17,011 --> 00:04:19,000
And it was just the games. So they

123
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,512
ended up finding it, but, like,

124
00:04:21,308 --> 00:04:23,137
I did order new cards that I now

125
00:04:23,137 --> 00:04:24,092
don't need, but whatever.

126
00:04:25,779 --> 00:04:28,492
So yeah. So I've I've had some some

127
00:04:28,492 --> 00:04:30,269
games go home with publishers, and

128
00:04:30,806 --> 00:04:33,121
I've pitched a couple things at On pub.

129
00:04:34,012 --> 00:04:34,490
And March.

130
00:04:36,001 --> 00:04:37,433
And some... We had

131
00:04:37,910 --> 00:04:39,183
Clarence and I are working on a c

132
00:04:39,183 --> 00:04:40,297
design. That's a party aim.

133
00:04:41,349 --> 00:04:43,027
Actually, I guess the social introduction game. And

134
00:04:43,027 --> 00:04:44,385
so we've had some interest in that from

135
00:04:44,385 --> 00:04:44,945
different people,

136
00:04:45,664 --> 00:04:47,342
and some people have kicked back or whatever.

137
00:04:47,502 --> 00:04:49,420
But, I think I've done some of that.

138
00:04:50,074 --> 00:04:51,113
I did try to set some stuff from

139
00:04:51,113 --> 00:04:52,631
origins, but I was pretty busy with booth

140
00:04:52,631 --> 00:04:52,951
planning,

141
00:04:53,750 --> 00:04:55,827
and I didn't really get any responses from

142
00:04:55,827 --> 00:04:57,685
the people I did reach out to. So

143
00:04:58,634 --> 00:04:59,031
that's

144
00:05:00,778 --> 00:05:02,843
that's yeah, not... I didn't do it as

145
00:05:02,843 --> 00:05:04,114
much there as I would... What I wanted

146
00:05:04,114 --> 00:05:06,020
them to. I think the big challenge for

147
00:05:06,020 --> 00:05:06,497
me is,

148
00:05:08,260 --> 00:05:09,533
I'm much more comfortable, like,

149
00:05:10,328 --> 00:05:12,874
pitching in person, like, you know, building relationship

150
00:05:12,874 --> 00:05:13,908
with people and just, like,

151
00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:16,312
Hey. Like, I have this game and and

152
00:05:16,312 --> 00:05:17,667
if I have... I tend to have a

153
00:05:17,667 --> 00:05:19,101
lot of games with me, so I can,

154
00:05:19,181 --> 00:05:21,491
like, easily pivot from game a to game

155
00:05:21,571 --> 00:05:23,722
B if, like, they're not interested in that

156
00:05:23,722 --> 00:05:23,882
1.

157
00:05:24,692 --> 00:05:26,197
And so, like, I feel more comfortable than.

158
00:05:27,069 --> 00:05:28,733
Some of the... Some people are much better

159
00:05:28,733 --> 00:05:29,208
about, like,

160
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:30,793
blind emailing,

161
00:05:32,077 --> 00:05:34,544
everybody in the corporate doesn't inc until they

162
00:05:34,544 --> 00:05:36,693
get somebody to, like, play it on screen

163
00:05:36,693 --> 00:05:38,046
top or something and, like,

164
00:05:39,969 --> 00:05:41,476
it's not rejection or anything like that. Like,

165
00:05:41,635 --> 00:05:42,903
Don't... If somebody does like my game, that's

166
00:05:42,903 --> 00:05:45,362
fine, but that part that's just like, doesn't

167
00:05:45,362 --> 00:05:46,868
sound fun to me. It's like,

168
00:05:47,679 --> 00:05:48,317
That sounds awful.

169
00:05:49,515 --> 00:05:52,149
So, yeah, I I tend to try to

170
00:05:52,149 --> 00:05:54,384
do more in person pitching with a little

171
00:05:54,384 --> 00:05:56,481
bit of, like, facing a name kind of

172
00:05:56,875 --> 00:05:58,954
sitting and sitting down with somebody. So, yeah.

173
00:05:59,194 --> 00:06:00,875
Well, we'll see. I, you know, 1 thing

174
00:06:00,875 --> 00:06:02,394
that's... I'm not currently planning to go to

175
00:06:02,474 --> 00:06:04,555
Gen con, So I'm not gonna have a

176
00:06:04,555 --> 00:06:05,274
chance to pitch there.

177
00:06:06,009 --> 00:06:07,523
And so then things kind of, like,

178
00:06:08,161 --> 00:06:09,117
thin out a little bit

179
00:06:09,914 --> 00:06:11,748
to the rest of the summer. So definitely

180
00:06:11,748 --> 00:06:12,625
gotta pitch more packs.

181
00:06:14,233 --> 00:06:15,264
I guess I won't get too much into

182
00:06:15,264 --> 00:06:16,771
what we're gonna do for the second half

183
00:06:16,771 --> 00:06:18,278
of the year. But... Yeah. So I did

184
00:06:18,278 --> 00:06:20,023
do... I'd have done probably more pitching this

185
00:06:20,023 --> 00:06:21,372
year than I have any other previous year.

186
00:06:21,610 --> 00:06:22,110
So

187
00:06:22,418 --> 00:06:24,327
that's a baby step forward, and I need

188
00:06:24,327 --> 00:06:26,180
to get better, and I need to

189
00:06:26,793 --> 00:06:27,827
send more emails.

190
00:06:28,543 --> 00:06:29,913
But, yeah, I don't know.

191
00:06:30,791 --> 00:06:32,387
This is a different conversation that that me

192
00:06:32,387 --> 00:06:33,425
and you had on the way out to

193
00:06:33,504 --> 00:06:34,063
Ohio of, like,

194
00:06:34,941 --> 00:06:35,260
you know,

195
00:06:36,218 --> 00:06:37,516
what percentage of games

196
00:06:37,909 --> 00:06:40,642
ever really got signed when that very first

197
00:06:40,700 --> 00:06:43,890
an initial point of contact was a cell

198
00:06:43,890 --> 00:06:44,129
sheet.

199
00:06:44,926 --> 00:06:46,702
Because, like, to me that seems like

200
00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:49,313
that just can't be the the the majority

201
00:06:49,313 --> 00:06:51,136
of things. Right? Like, the that a cell

202
00:06:51,136 --> 00:06:53,275
sheet on a cold email like led to

203
00:06:53,275 --> 00:06:55,516
a game getting signed. By somebody who's not

204
00:06:55,516 --> 00:06:57,111
already well well note in the industry. Right?

205
00:06:57,271 --> 00:07:00,221
So... Right. Anyway, I... Yeah. Good.

206
00:07:00,939 --> 00:07:02,136
No. No. I just finished finishing that. So,

207
00:07:02,215 --> 00:07:03,172
yeah. That was the first thing.

208
00:07:04,303 --> 00:07:05,016
I did do better.

209
00:07:05,650 --> 00:07:06,443
So good for me.

210
00:07:07,236 --> 00:07:09,004
I still have room for improvement, So

211
00:07:10,011 --> 00:07:10,645
over to you.

212
00:07:11,929 --> 00:07:13,360
Well, so I didn't even do the homework.

213
00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:14,951
I didn't even go back and listen to

214
00:07:14,951 --> 00:07:16,303
what I said I was gonna do this

215
00:07:16,303 --> 00:07:17,416
year because I was like, I know what

216
00:07:17,495 --> 00:07:18,291
I said I was gonna do this year.

217
00:07:18,450 --> 00:07:19,245
I don't know what Said I was gonna

218
00:07:19,245 --> 00:07:21,326
do this year. But I'm gonna follow along

219
00:07:21,326 --> 00:07:23,073
with this thread, and I've got some notes

220
00:07:23,073 --> 00:07:24,288
as well. So

221
00:07:24,900 --> 00:07:26,012
I know 1 of the things that I've

222
00:07:26,012 --> 00:07:27,442
been trying to do is

223
00:07:28,807 --> 00:07:31,510
build a larger backlog of games, like, a

224
00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:33,576
larger library so that I have stuff to

225
00:07:33,576 --> 00:07:34,553
pitch, and

226
00:07:35,007 --> 00:07:36,358
I would not even give myself a b

227
00:07:36,358 --> 00:07:37,685
plus on that. I would give

228
00:07:38,043 --> 00:07:39,160
well, I don't know if I'd give myself

229
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:40,515
a grade on it. I would say,

230
00:07:41,472 --> 00:07:42,269
opportunity for improvement.

231
00:07:43,146 --> 00:07:44,980
But I... I've learned. I've learned a bunch

232
00:07:44,980 --> 00:07:46,357
of stuff. Right? So

233
00:07:47,068 --> 00:07:48,185
these past 6 months,

234
00:07:48,903 --> 00:07:50,838
you know, I spent a lot of time

235
00:07:50,897 --> 00:07:52,571
focusing on some publishing stuff.

236
00:07:53,768 --> 00:07:56,182
So I focused a lot more on

237
00:07:56,733 --> 00:07:58,960
pirates of the high teens and knit circle,

238
00:07:59,358 --> 00:08:01,744
because knit circle was going through development the

239
00:08:01,744 --> 00:08:02,778
first quarter of this year.

240
00:08:03,812 --> 00:08:06,296
And as was pirates, So, basically, I did

241
00:08:06,296 --> 00:08:06,796
development

242
00:08:07,573 --> 00:08:09,169
for a lot of time during the first

243
00:08:09,169 --> 00:08:09,728
half of the year,

244
00:08:11,244 --> 00:08:12,941
which I can certainly talk about

245
00:08:13,413 --> 00:08:15,647
but I I didn't find that I had

246
00:08:15,647 --> 00:08:18,040
as much time to work on new games.

247
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:19,099
I did

248
00:08:20,369 --> 00:08:22,044
Well, I think most people know. I quit

249
00:08:22,044 --> 00:08:22,443
my job,

250
00:08:23,559 --> 00:08:25,234
midway through midway through the,

251
00:08:26,590 --> 00:08:29,302
the the first craft of the year. And

252
00:08:29,302 --> 00:08:29,802
so

253
00:08:30,274 --> 00:08:32,434
So there's been more time, but there was

254
00:08:32,434 --> 00:08:33,634
also a lot of, like,

255
00:08:34,355 --> 00:08:35,794
you know, I had to, like, wrap things

256
00:08:35,794 --> 00:08:36,914
up at my job, and I had a

257
00:08:36,914 --> 00:08:38,195
bunch of travel, and I had a bunch

258
00:08:38,195 --> 00:08:40,450
of, like, personal and family things that happened

259
00:08:40,450 --> 00:08:42,450
that, you know, take time and energy and

260
00:08:42,450 --> 00:08:44,850
things like that. So, you know, I had

261
00:08:44,850 --> 00:08:47,090
hoped that coming into Gen con, I always

262
00:08:47,090 --> 00:08:49,017
gonna have 3 or 4 new games that

263
00:08:49,176 --> 00:08:51,585
I could take around and pitch. And, realistically,

264
00:08:51,881 --> 00:08:52,937
I'm gonna have

265
00:08:53,710 --> 00:08:54,028
1,

266
00:08:55,142 --> 00:08:57,143
which is cutting flowers And I don't know

267
00:08:57,143 --> 00:08:59,365
if I'm gonna pitch that because it feels

268
00:08:59,365 --> 00:09:00,817
very in line with,

269
00:09:01,745 --> 00:09:03,412
the Peacock games brand.

270
00:09:04,063 --> 00:09:06,217
And so that might just be 1 that

271
00:09:06,297 --> 00:09:07,834
I'm gonna put on my own

272
00:09:08,450 --> 00:09:11,162
docket, which again was not the plan. The

273
00:09:11,162 --> 00:09:12,518
plan is to pitch as well.

274
00:09:13,809 --> 00:09:15,484
I did spend a bunch of time on

275
00:09:15,484 --> 00:09:16,542
a game that

276
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,196
I ended up putting on the shelf, So

277
00:09:18,276 --> 00:09:19,653
I think that was a great

278
00:09:20,350 --> 00:09:22,604
experience. A great learning, a great sort of

279
00:09:22,663 --> 00:09:24,669
understanding my own process us and how long

280
00:09:24,669 --> 00:09:26,817
it takes me to work through a game.

281
00:09:27,055 --> 00:09:29,123
I I think realistically, I don't have a

282
00:09:29,123 --> 00:09:29,623
game

283
00:09:30,078 --> 00:09:30,578
ready

284
00:09:31,128 --> 00:09:33,282
in less than 3 months. Like, I just,

285
00:09:33,601 --> 00:09:36,313
I I can't get it through my whole

286
00:09:36,313 --> 00:09:39,184
process to where I'm comfortable showing it to

287
00:09:39,184 --> 00:09:39,843
a publisher

288
00:09:40,794 --> 00:09:42,232
in less than 3 months. So I think

289
00:09:42,232 --> 00:09:43,531
for me that puts

290
00:09:44,390 --> 00:09:47,106
unplugged on the radar as sort of the

291
00:09:47,106 --> 00:09:47,926
next big

292
00:09:48,799 --> 00:09:50,876
pitching opportunity and that also gives me a

293
00:09:50,876 --> 00:09:52,714
little bit of, like, breathing room.

294
00:09:54,632 --> 00:09:56,570
That being said, I've got some

295
00:09:57,044 --> 00:09:59,859
other designs that I was working, right, like

296
00:09:59,997 --> 00:10:00,897
cross stitch

297
00:10:01,434 --> 00:10:02,573
and good kitties

298
00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:05,745
that I just haven't gotten an opportunity to

299
00:10:05,745 --> 00:10:07,988
test in about 3 months here.

300
00:10:09,737 --> 00:10:11,111
In part because,

301
00:10:12,042 --> 00:10:14,133
you know, I was having I'm having feelings

302
00:10:14,445 --> 00:10:15,884
about 1 of them, I had, you know,

303
00:10:16,125 --> 00:10:17,804
I sort of ended pub on a rough

304
00:10:17,804 --> 00:10:18,924
note with cross stitch.

305
00:10:19,644 --> 00:10:20,384
And so

306
00:10:20,764 --> 00:10:21,904
I just haven't

307
00:10:22,220 --> 00:10:23,820
have the sort of emotional bandwidth to pick

308
00:10:23,820 --> 00:10:25,660
it back up. And then good kitties, I

309
00:10:25,660 --> 00:10:27,420
just haven't had the sort of like, I

310
00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:28,860
need to sit down and and and work

311
00:10:28,860 --> 00:10:30,955
on it. So My, My sort of short

312
00:10:30,955 --> 00:10:32,875
term goal for Gen con is to look

313
00:10:32,875 --> 00:10:35,195
both of those in the eye and see

314
00:10:35,195 --> 00:10:36,174
what I can do

315
00:10:36,554 --> 00:10:37,774
with them. I

316
00:10:38,248 --> 00:10:39,598
I feel good that I may be able

317
00:10:39,598 --> 00:10:41,585
to have a revamped version of cross stitch

318
00:10:41,585 --> 00:10:43,492
ready for Gen con where I do have

319
00:10:43,492 --> 00:10:44,525
an opportunity to show it.

320
00:10:45,654 --> 00:10:46,293
To some folks.

321
00:10:47,172 --> 00:10:49,090
And then again, good kitties is probably gonna

322
00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:50,069
be in

323
00:10:50,528 --> 00:10:53,654
the hawk line. And so you know, that

324
00:10:53,654 --> 00:10:55,323
also feels like I get to set the

325
00:10:55,323 --> 00:10:57,469
timeline on that now because I've pitched it

326
00:10:57,469 --> 00:10:59,615
to myself. And me as the publisher said,

327
00:10:59,774 --> 00:11:01,522
yes, I I do wanna publish that at

328
00:11:01,522 --> 00:11:01,894
some point

329
00:11:02,726 --> 00:11:03,226
so

330
00:11:03,836 --> 00:11:05,579
so I think that's the piece that I

331
00:11:05,579 --> 00:11:08,114
hadn't quite expected. So I I really thought

332
00:11:08,193 --> 00:11:10,200
I was gonna have, like, 5 new games

333
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,799
by now, and I and I don't,

334
00:11:12,839 --> 00:11:14,519
but I do feel like I have a

335
00:11:14,519 --> 00:11:17,000
more realistic sense of what it takes for

336
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,013
me. To bring a new game forward.

337
00:11:20,611 --> 00:11:23,408
And so that that makes me feel pretty

338
00:11:23,408 --> 00:11:25,646
good. And I and I'm I'm excited about

339
00:11:25,646 --> 00:11:27,265
cutting flowers. I think it's got

340
00:11:27,818 --> 00:11:28,136
legs,

341
00:11:29,013 --> 00:11:30,845
and so I... It's 1 I can... I'm

342
00:11:30,845 --> 00:11:31,721
excited to see through.

343
00:11:32,837 --> 00:11:33,337
So

344
00:11:33,793 --> 00:11:36,342
so have I pitched to anybody? No. I

345
00:11:36,342 --> 00:11:37,034
have not

346
00:11:38,194 --> 00:11:40,115
might I pitch to someone at Gen? Yes.

347
00:11:40,355 --> 00:11:40,754
I might.

348
00:11:42,274 --> 00:11:42,595
But

349
00:11:43,154 --> 00:11:45,554
I do not have a backlog of 5

350
00:11:45,554 --> 00:11:48,441
games. I have 1 new game. But it's

351
00:11:48,441 --> 00:11:50,272
a game I'm very excited about, and I

352
00:11:50,272 --> 00:11:51,171
did work on

353
00:11:51,626 --> 00:11:53,219
a couple others and put them on the

354
00:11:53,219 --> 00:11:54,493
shelf and so that's progress.

355
00:11:55,464 --> 00:11:56,021
In my mind.

356
00:11:59,128 --> 00:12:02,177
Yeah. For sure. I mean, that's something that

357
00:12:02,807 --> 00:12:04,239
if people have heard me on the podcast

358
00:12:04,239 --> 00:12:05,671
are in person different times, like,

359
00:12:06,467 --> 00:12:07,899
I always say that 1 of 1 of

360
00:12:07,899 --> 00:12:10,221
the more difficult things in game design especially,

361
00:12:10,381 --> 00:12:12,132
you know, as the designer out there pitching

362
00:12:12,132 --> 00:12:12,848
stuff, is to, like,

363
00:12:13,564 --> 00:12:15,713
keep momentum. And so anything you can do,

364
00:12:15,873 --> 00:12:17,885
keep momentum and move anything forward

365
00:12:18,420 --> 00:12:19,056
week every week.

366
00:12:20,187 --> 00:12:22,500
Great plug for the building the game, Tuesday

367
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:23,856
night, accountability check.

368
00:12:25,053 --> 00:12:26,089
Even if you just come in and say,

369
00:12:26,169 --> 00:12:27,685
like, you worked on 1 thing or you

370
00:12:27,685 --> 00:12:28,961
fix some cards or whatever, Like,

371
00:12:29,695 --> 00:12:32,014
anything you can do and get excited about

372
00:12:32,014 --> 00:12:33,454
whether it's a new designer or an old

373
00:12:33,454 --> 00:12:36,095
design. Like, sometimes it's a s. Right? Some

374
00:12:36,095 --> 00:12:37,454
games are just a pain in the butt.

375
00:12:37,950 --> 00:12:39,389
And they just like never do what you

376
00:12:39,389 --> 00:12:39,950
want them to.

377
00:12:40,590 --> 00:12:41,470
So, yeah.

378
00:12:42,029 --> 00:12:44,429
If if if something's making you feel energized

379
00:12:44,429 --> 00:12:46,923
about game design or your goals in game

380
00:12:46,923 --> 00:12:48,840
design, then, like, do it. That's always my

381
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,837
rule. Don't listen to someone say, Like, if

382
00:12:50,837 --> 00:12:53,569
making cook your cards look better, is making

383
00:12:53,569 --> 00:12:55,247
you you a happy and moving your game

384
00:12:55,247 --> 00:12:55,566
forward,

385
00:12:56,286 --> 00:12:58,044
then do it. I don't care what something

386
00:12:58,044 --> 00:13:00,441
that sense. I agree. I agree.

387
00:13:02,774 --> 00:13:05,011
Should I take the lead on the next

388
00:13:05,011 --> 00:13:06,050
topic or do you wanna go back to

389
00:13:06,050 --> 00:13:07,728
it? Because you had 3 points so we

390
00:13:07,728 --> 00:13:09,407
can go back to your number 2? We

391
00:13:09,407 --> 00:13:11,816
can alternate... We can alternate then. That that

392
00:13:11,816 --> 00:13:13,087
way, there won't be a long window of

393
00:13:13,087 --> 00:13:14,438
somebody listening to me, Ramble.

394
00:13:16,027 --> 00:13:18,887
It'll be be broken up by you say

395
00:13:18,887 --> 00:13:19,761
more interesting things.

396
00:13:20,572 --> 00:13:21,927
So the second 5 me rambling.

397
00:13:24,875 --> 00:13:26,389
So 1 of the other things I said

398
00:13:26,469 --> 00:13:27,186
I was gonna do is

399
00:13:27,839 --> 00:13:29,755
help a friend who was starting a a

400
00:13:29,755 --> 00:13:31,032
different publishing,

401
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:32,788
small publishing company,

402
00:13:33,826 --> 00:13:35,821
about the intersection of games and culture and

403
00:13:35,821 --> 00:13:35,981
art.

404
00:13:37,589 --> 00:13:37,908
And,

405
00:13:39,182 --> 00:13:40,615
that's still kind of moving forward, but a

406
00:13:40,615 --> 00:13:42,286
lot slower than anticipated.

407
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,407
The the first game that's slated to come

408
00:13:45,407 --> 00:13:47,002
out in that line is,

409
00:13:47,639 --> 00:13:50,111
a graffiti, you know, New york City, like,

410
00:13:50,988 --> 00:13:54,033
tagging subway cars kind of, game with with

411
00:13:54,033 --> 00:13:56,766
actual real art from a fairly well known

412
00:13:56,825 --> 00:13:58,282
graffiti artist. And so

413
00:13:59,297 --> 00:13:59,696
obviously,

414
00:14:00,254 --> 00:14:02,727
that's been a major, like, limiting factor for

415
00:14:02,727 --> 00:14:03,227
the

416
00:14:04,097 --> 00:14:06,090
moving forward of this of this project is,

417
00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:07,844
like, waiting for all the the art. And

418
00:14:07,924 --> 00:14:09,678
I think that that's finally mostly been solved,

419
00:14:10,475 --> 00:14:12,402
and then this person also is, like, changed

420
00:14:12,402 --> 00:14:13,989
jobs and moved, so there's some other the

421
00:14:13,989 --> 00:14:14,782
things going on that.

422
00:14:16,449 --> 00:14:18,830
I said or earlier that, like, there was

423
00:14:18,830 --> 00:14:20,710
a potential that long term maybe be

424
00:14:21,705 --> 00:14:23,618
barn quotes might fit into that line, and

425
00:14:23,618 --> 00:14:25,689
we had talked about that. And that still

426
00:14:25,689 --> 00:14:26,725
may may happen.

427
00:14:27,442 --> 00:14:27,942
But

428
00:14:28,571 --> 00:14:29,549
since recording

429
00:14:30,083 --> 00:14:33,026
the the episode in, January first.

430
00:14:34,139 --> 00:14:35,889
Actually, like, there's another game that

431
00:14:36,860 --> 00:14:38,940
we're both really excited about, which is in

432
00:14:38,940 --> 00:14:39,419
this line,

433
00:14:40,139 --> 00:14:40,639
and

434
00:14:41,179 --> 00:14:43,419
didn't exist at the time of this recording.

435
00:14:43,914 --> 00:14:45,912
And so I have a game called Mon,

436
00:14:46,152 --> 00:14:46,971
which is

437
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:48,869
I'm gonna say... I'm gonna make up a

438
00:14:48,869 --> 00:14:50,707
new term. It's an art and right. So...

439
00:14:51,506 --> 00:14:52,879
It kinda uses some flipping and right stuff,

440
00:14:53,037 --> 00:14:55,020
but you actually make art. If you don't

441
00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:56,290
know who Laundry is go look it up.

442
00:14:57,797 --> 00:14:59,304
Luckily, it's art for people who can't make

443
00:14:59,304 --> 00:15:00,908
art, because all you need to be able

444
00:15:00,908 --> 00:15:02,261
to do is use a ruler and color

445
00:15:02,261 --> 00:15:05,363
in a square a rectangle. So pretty easy.

446
00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:08,490
But it's kinda like a little spatial puzzle

447
00:15:08,490 --> 00:15:09,370
and at the end,

448
00:15:11,049 --> 00:15:12,569
if if you haven't played the game or

449
00:15:12,569 --> 00:15:14,029
seen pictures of it on Twitter

450
00:15:14,809 --> 00:15:15,370
or whatever.

451
00:15:16,823 --> 00:15:18,892
The the playing board that you... That you're

452
00:15:18,892 --> 00:15:20,029
kinda drawing on

453
00:15:20,404 --> 00:15:22,075
as 5 by 7. And so the intent

454
00:15:22,075 --> 00:15:23,587
is literally that, like, at the... At the...

455
00:15:23,746 --> 00:15:25,019
When you're done, you could cut it out

456
00:15:25,019 --> 00:15:27,101
and put it on a. Fridge magnet, and

457
00:15:27,101 --> 00:15:28,371
that is the goal that there's gonna be

458
00:15:28,371 --> 00:15:30,436
a fridge magnet when this game. Whoever publishes

459
00:15:30,436 --> 00:15:30,595
it.

460
00:15:31,389 --> 00:15:32,580
That there's gonna be a 5 by 7

461
00:15:32,580 --> 00:15:34,983
fridge magnet in the box. And her winds

462
00:15:34,983 --> 00:15:37,061
gonna get put in the fridge. Right? And

463
00:15:37,061 --> 00:15:39,058
so, a, it's very for an giant game

464
00:15:39,058 --> 00:15:42,275
very social media friendly, but also, like, it's

465
00:15:42,986 --> 00:15:44,975
it's interesting the choices that you do to

466
00:15:44,975 --> 00:15:47,282
make scoring and get a better, point in

467
00:15:47,282 --> 00:15:48,236
total, but also,

468
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,953
artistic choices. Right? So, like, you get to

469
00:15:52,953 --> 00:15:55,266
kind of choose where you place things. And

470
00:15:56,302 --> 00:15:57,759
yeah. So it it's definitely

471
00:15:59,029 --> 00:16:00,225
1 of those ones, like, a little bit

472
00:16:00,225 --> 00:16:02,458
like, welcome to it and it does kinda

473
00:16:02,458 --> 00:16:03,814
borrow 1 mechanism for that a little bit.

474
00:16:03,974 --> 00:16:06,446
But where everyone has the same inputs and

475
00:16:06,446 --> 00:16:07,962
you all end up with something vastly different,

476
00:16:08,201 --> 00:16:09,973
which for art to me is even more

477
00:16:09,973 --> 00:16:10,133
cool.

478
00:16:11,811 --> 00:16:13,009
So... Yeah. That 1

479
00:16:14,527 --> 00:16:16,205
it's is a easier and b,

480
00:16:17,338 --> 00:16:18,636
it's funny because when I first

481
00:16:19,094 --> 00:16:20,131
when I first kinda said,

482
00:16:21,089 --> 00:16:22,367
to this person, like, hey. I got a

483
00:16:22,367 --> 00:16:23,963
game that I think fits this line. I

484
00:16:23,963 --> 00:16:25,400
said, and I think you're really gonna like

485
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:25,480
it.

486
00:16:26,926 --> 00:16:27,426
And

487
00:16:28,278 --> 00:16:29,312
his response was, like,

488
00:16:30,186 --> 00:16:30,345
okay.

489
00:16:31,458 --> 00:16:32,276
So was pretty,

490
00:16:32,969 --> 00:16:34,559
un uni enthused initially.

491
00:16:35,688 --> 00:16:36,007
But,

492
00:16:37,363 --> 00:16:38,958
I I forced him to play it at

493
00:16:39,675 --> 00:16:41,749
Tantrum Con several other places, and he's done

494
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:42,785
a lot of testing with the 2.

495
00:16:43,583 --> 00:16:43,902
And

496
00:16:45,431 --> 00:16:46,944
yeah. A lot people played it On pub.

497
00:16:47,661 --> 00:16:49,413
I think you played it at gamma Expo.

498
00:16:49,811 --> 00:16:51,904
Did. It's a good game. 1. I loved

499
00:16:52,439 --> 00:16:53,156
1. Yeah.

500
00:16:54,930 --> 00:16:56,050
Looks important what 1.

501
00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:58,290
Yeah. I mean, that's a fact You you

502
00:16:58,290 --> 00:16:59,649
always like a gain 20 percent more if

503
00:16:59,649 --> 00:16:59,889
you win.

504
00:17:01,264 --> 00:17:02,384
But it's a lot of fun. I I

505
00:17:02,384 --> 00:17:03,504
know a lot of people have, like,

506
00:17:04,384 --> 00:17:06,325
give give me a lot of really positive

507
00:17:06,384 --> 00:17:06,545
feedback.

508
00:17:08,384 --> 00:17:09,744
Yeah, that that played it.

509
00:17:10,797 --> 00:17:12,789
At pub and stuff too. So that 1,

510
00:17:13,028 --> 00:17:15,021
I think is is totally done. We have

511
00:17:15,021 --> 00:17:17,252
some variability and some special goals and stuff

512
00:17:17,252 --> 00:17:17,571
and, like,

513
00:17:18,383 --> 00:17:19,974
So I think that's still we're gonna move

514
00:17:19,974 --> 00:17:21,986
forward. We have to kinda wait for

515
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,338
all this artwork

516
00:17:23,952 --> 00:17:25,009
stuff to check up

517
00:17:25,876 --> 00:17:27,945
catch up, I guess. And then I'll have

518
00:17:27,945 --> 00:17:29,219
to talk with him and see, like, when

519
00:17:29,219 --> 00:17:30,333
he wants to do the kick kickstarter because

520
00:17:30,412 --> 00:17:32,322
I'm gonna help coordinate some of that stuff.

521
00:17:32,894 --> 00:17:34,167
Which also is is the thing I wanted

522
00:17:34,167 --> 00:17:35,679
to learn more just about, like, how to

523
00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:36,418
interface with

524
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:38,703
some of the stuff that Emily will have

525
00:17:38,703 --> 00:17:39,737
to deal with too of, like,

526
00:17:40,629 --> 00:17:43,284
reviewers and, you know, influencers and,

527
00:17:43,662 --> 00:17:44,061
you know,

528
00:17:45,099 --> 00:17:47,015
marketing people and and and all that kind

529
00:17:47,015 --> 00:17:48,771
of stuff? Like, how do you go from,

530
00:17:48,851 --> 00:17:50,778
like, having this game. You're ready to put

531
00:17:50,778 --> 00:17:52,132
it up somewhere, but like, you, I have

532
00:17:52,132 --> 00:17:53,724
to do some audience building and figure out

533
00:17:53,724 --> 00:17:55,100
your plan for that stuff. So

534
00:17:56,272 --> 00:17:58,758
that 1 has gone slow and probably will

535
00:17:58,758 --> 00:18:00,057
go slow. So

536
00:18:00,516 --> 00:18:02,513
I, it's possible that that game won't even

537
00:18:02,513 --> 00:18:04,271
kick start this year. And if it does,

538
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:04,910
it'll be late.

539
00:18:06,283 --> 00:18:08,301
But probably early next year. So

540
00:18:09,958 --> 00:18:11,316
I would say I've been doing that 1

541
00:18:11,316 --> 00:18:13,878
as much as it has existed to do.

542
00:18:14,673 --> 00:18:17,773
Mh. And I accidentally designed, which wasn't my

543
00:18:17,773 --> 00:18:18,273
intent

544
00:18:18,727 --> 00:18:20,396
for the modern game to design a game

545
00:18:20,396 --> 00:18:21,032
for this line.

546
00:18:22,556 --> 00:18:24,407
I had saved a picture on my phone

547
00:18:24,622 --> 00:18:26,767
from months ago where, like, I had seen

548
00:18:26,767 --> 00:18:27,267
something

549
00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:29,547
with his art, Mon art on. And I

550
00:18:29,547 --> 00:18:31,312
was like, that should be a game. And,

551
00:18:31,471 --> 00:18:33,141
like, over the holiday break, I just said,

552
00:18:33,618 --> 00:18:35,368
well, how would work and I just designed

553
00:18:35,368 --> 00:18:36,823
it. So was kind of

554
00:18:37,611 --> 00:18:39,624
accidental for 2, I guess. So

555
00:18:40,398 --> 00:18:43,344
that was my second second goal, which is

556
00:18:43,344 --> 00:18:44,857
continuing a pace as they say.

557
00:18:45,588 --> 00:18:45,985
That's good.

558
00:18:47,494 --> 00:18:48,447
Yeah. I think,

559
00:18:49,242 --> 00:18:50,989
a, I'm just gonna say again. That game

560
00:18:50,989 --> 00:18:52,498
is great, and I love it. And I...

561
00:18:52,736 --> 00:18:53,474
There's something

562
00:18:54,261 --> 00:18:55,715
exciting about when a game

563
00:18:56,249 --> 00:18:57,760
comes together that fast.

564
00:18:58,635 --> 00:19:00,782
Right? That you know, I've been doing pirates

565
00:19:00,782 --> 00:19:01,657
for 2 years now.

566
00:19:02,548 --> 00:19:04,862
But knit circle was a breeze. Right?

567
00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:07,414
And cross stitch has been a,

568
00:19:08,452 --> 00:19:08,952
struggle

569
00:19:09,504 --> 00:19:11,978
and, cutting flowers is just sort of flying

570
00:19:11,978 --> 00:19:12,537
together. So...

571
00:19:13,415 --> 00:19:14,932
And I don't think that, you know, either

572
00:19:14,932 --> 00:19:16,449
game is better or worse than the other.

573
00:19:16,608 --> 00:19:18,146
It's just sometimes they're

574
00:19:18,538 --> 00:19:20,759
Sometimes they're a hall. Right? And sometimes they

575
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:21,076
just, like,

576
00:19:21,949 --> 00:19:24,011
snap into place in a really cool way.

577
00:19:26,566 --> 00:19:27,915
So I'm pretty sure 1 of the things

578
00:19:27,995 --> 00:19:29,583
I talked about was development,

579
00:19:29,980 --> 00:19:31,329
and that I was gonna be doing a

580
00:19:31,329 --> 00:19:32,544
bunch of game development

581
00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:34,187
at the beginning of this year.

582
00:19:34,996 --> 00:19:36,345
And so I figured I'd talk a little

583
00:19:36,345 --> 00:19:36,979
bit about that,

584
00:19:37,773 --> 00:19:38,408
both from,

585
00:19:39,201 --> 00:19:41,581
you know, knit circle, which I was part

586
00:19:41,581 --> 00:19:42,613
of the development team,

587
00:19:43,263 --> 00:19:43,502
for,

588
00:19:44,299 --> 00:19:45,574
I can now say flat out,

589
00:19:46,291 --> 00:19:47,247
which is very exciting,

590
00:19:47,805 --> 00:19:49,000
because I don't think I could talk about

591
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,115
that back in January.

592
00:19:50,607 --> 00:19:53,327
So knit circle assigned to be the

593
00:19:53,858 --> 00:19:55,999
follow on game to Calico, so it is

594
00:19:55,999 --> 00:19:57,982
knit circle, a calico game.

595
00:19:59,275 --> 00:20:01,275
And so bringing it to flat out. Right?

596
00:20:01,434 --> 00:20:03,195
It was a it was a sort of

597
00:20:03,195 --> 00:20:06,815
breezy tile placement that had a real problem

598
00:20:07,035 --> 00:20:08,088
around scoring.

599
00:20:08,727 --> 00:20:11,122
Right? In that, I couldn't figure out how

600
00:20:11,122 --> 00:20:13,038
to make the scoring such that it was

601
00:20:13,038 --> 00:20:15,432
interesting and replay and, you know, all sorts

602
00:20:15,432 --> 00:20:17,677
of things. Like, it was the scoring was

603
00:20:17,677 --> 00:20:18,392
doing a job,

604
00:20:19,186 --> 00:20:20,854
but it wasn't doing a great job.

605
00:20:22,284 --> 00:20:23,555
And so there there was that sort of

606
00:20:23,634 --> 00:20:25,222
I knew was on the horizon of we

607
00:20:25,222 --> 00:20:26,309
needed to figure out

608
00:20:26,828 --> 00:20:28,904
but then working with flat out. Right? They've

609
00:20:28,904 --> 00:20:29,622
got, you know,

610
00:20:30,261 --> 00:20:31,937
they've got an approach and a style of

611
00:20:31,937 --> 00:20:33,614
game that they do and they have an

612
00:20:33,614 --> 00:20:34,971
audience that they know well.

613
00:20:35,703 --> 00:20:38,011
Right? So there were, you know, some things

614
00:20:38,011 --> 00:20:39,683
that they really wanted to bring in that

615
00:20:39,842 --> 00:20:41,434
I I was excited to do. Right?

616
00:20:42,309 --> 00:20:44,140
But, you know, Calico has sort of 3

617
00:20:44,140 --> 00:20:46,788
ways of scoring. They're like buttons and the

618
00:20:46,788 --> 00:20:49,424
the objectives and the the little cat friends

619
00:20:49,424 --> 00:20:51,202
and stuff like that. So we were,

620
00:20:52,140 --> 00:20:54,788
addressing the scoring by saying, you know, how

621
00:20:54,788 --> 00:20:57,022
can we sort of have multiple scoring systems.

622
00:20:57,660 --> 00:20:57,819
Right?

623
00:20:58,617 --> 00:21:01,329
So so that's been a really interesting journey.

624
00:21:01,488 --> 00:21:02,228
It's been

625
00:21:02,938 --> 00:21:04,768
it's had... It's, like, high moments where I'm

626
00:21:04,768 --> 00:21:06,916
like, oh, we just made a breakthrough. Right?

627
00:21:07,155 --> 00:21:09,383
And it's had. It's like, low moments where

628
00:21:09,462 --> 00:21:11,313
I'm, like, I don't know if this will

629
00:21:11,313 --> 00:21:13,631
ever converge again. Right? We've... You know, we've

630
00:21:13,631 --> 00:21:15,788
taken it apart and, like, put it back

631
00:21:15,788 --> 00:21:17,546
together. And I think it's going in a

632
00:21:17,546 --> 00:21:18,665
good direction, but, like,

633
00:21:19,637 --> 00:21:21,149
it's hard to see it right now.

634
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:25,207
But, you know, we're we're through it. We

635
00:21:25,207 --> 00:21:26,423
are we are

636
00:21:27,132 --> 00:21:28,804
I think we're basically done. We're testing the

637
00:21:28,804 --> 00:21:29,759
advanced mode right now.

638
00:21:30,475 --> 00:21:33,101
But it also added this interesting dynamic of,

639
00:21:33,181 --> 00:21:34,056
you know, that team.

640
00:21:34,708 --> 00:21:37,493
Is in Seattle on the West Coast and

641
00:21:37,652 --> 00:21:38,368
I'm in Boston.

642
00:21:38,845 --> 00:21:41,232
And so we had to do online play

643
00:21:41,232 --> 00:21:42,505
testing and stuff like that,

644
00:21:43,875 --> 00:21:45,154
And so, you know, it's just been a

645
00:21:45,154 --> 00:21:47,634
journey of getting to know a new team

646
00:21:47,634 --> 00:21:49,795
and work closely with them, and, you know,

647
00:21:49,954 --> 00:21:52,355
they're they're great. I had a great time

648
00:21:53,409 --> 00:21:54,846
But, you know, it was also just like,

649
00:21:55,404 --> 00:21:56,202
everything's happening.

650
00:21:56,761 --> 00:21:59,177
And so so I learned a lot about

651
00:21:59,635 --> 00:22:01,731
how to do development and how

652
00:22:02,044 --> 00:22:03,400
you know, it's it's in some ways, it's

653
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,314
just like game design. Right? We're, like, you

654
00:22:05,314 --> 00:22:07,227
put something in and, like, you go through

655
00:22:07,227 --> 00:22:09,221
this wild journey in the middle and something

656
00:22:09,221 --> 00:22:10,816
different comes out on the other side.

657
00:22:12,024 --> 00:22:14,330
And so, again, it just feels like another

658
00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:15,626
reinforcement of, like, sometimes

659
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,273
just trusting the process,

660
00:22:18,386 --> 00:22:20,135
even when it's taking you through, like,

661
00:22:21,503 --> 00:22:23,817
areas that you're like, I don't know. You're

662
00:22:23,817 --> 00:22:25,970
like, I'm just passing through. Right? I'm just

663
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:27,964
passing through. Maybe I'm gonna stop here if

664
00:22:27,964 --> 00:22:30,038
it feels good, but maybe I'm just passing

665
00:22:30,038 --> 00:22:30,277
through.

666
00:22:32,124 --> 00:22:33,477
So I did that with Knit circle,

667
00:22:34,114 --> 00:22:37,775
and then I sort of panic did it

668
00:22:37,775 --> 00:22:40,162
on my own with pirates of the high

669
00:22:40,162 --> 00:22:40,321
teens.

670
00:22:42,084 --> 00:22:45,417
So I think just before Gamma expo, sometime

671
00:22:45,417 --> 00:22:46,235
in the early

672
00:22:46,767 --> 00:22:48,116
part of the year, I was sort of

673
00:22:48,116 --> 00:22:49,465
going around to lots of people being, like,

674
00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:51,391
I think I need a developer for pirates.

675
00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:53,086
I don't know how to bring this

676
00:22:53,701 --> 00:22:56,090
to the final close. Right? And I think

677
00:22:56,169 --> 00:22:57,603
I need another set of eyes.

678
00:22:59,369 --> 00:23:01,199
And so I talked to a bunch of

679
00:23:01,199 --> 00:23:01,596
people.

680
00:23:02,312 --> 00:23:03,824
I talked to people that you could pay

681
00:23:03,824 --> 00:23:06,211
lots of money to do development. I talked

682
00:23:06,211 --> 00:23:08,452
to friends that I might be able to,

683
00:23:08,611 --> 00:23:10,700
you know, say, can I give you some

684
00:23:11,154 --> 00:23:13,299
profits from the kickstarter, that kind of thing?

685
00:23:15,383 --> 00:23:16,602
And I wasn't really

686
00:23:17,379 --> 00:23:17,879
landing

687
00:23:18,257 --> 00:23:18,757
on

688
00:23:19,774 --> 00:23:22,808
an answer, but I just kept working on

689
00:23:22,808 --> 00:23:23,127
pirates.

690
00:23:24,899 --> 00:23:26,356
To the point where

691
00:23:27,213 --> 00:23:29,628
I think I've done most of the development

692
00:23:29,847 --> 00:23:32,081
that needs to be done. It's really solid

693
00:23:32,081 --> 00:23:34,093
where it is I've got a couple things

694
00:23:34,093 --> 00:23:36,090
that came out of origins that I wanna...

695
00:23:37,449 --> 00:23:39,127
That I wanna play with, but I think

696
00:23:39,127 --> 00:23:41,019
if I threw them all out and just

697
00:23:41,299 --> 00:23:43,156
shipped the game as it was

698
00:23:43,694 --> 00:23:46,009
just before origins. I think it's a good

699
00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:48,403
game. I think it's a really strong game.

700
00:23:48,643 --> 00:23:49,462
And so

701
00:23:50,572 --> 00:23:52,164
I'm not sure. I need to do a

702
00:23:52,164 --> 00:23:52,960
little bit of, like,

703
00:23:54,233 --> 00:23:54,733
retrospective

704
00:23:55,188 --> 00:23:57,280
looking back at how I did this

705
00:23:57,894 --> 00:23:58,394
because

706
00:24:00,220 --> 00:24:02,619
it just sort of seamlessly went from the

707
00:24:02,619 --> 00:24:04,880
design to the development process

708
00:24:06,299 --> 00:24:08,380
with, I think the added piece hanging over

709
00:24:08,380 --> 00:24:09,099
my head of, like,

710
00:24:09,834 --> 00:24:11,592
No, really, I I just need to make

711
00:24:11,592 --> 00:24:13,590
some decisions. Like, I'm just gonna decide it,

712
00:24:13,910 --> 00:24:15,129
and then that will be

713
00:24:15,828 --> 00:24:17,586
what I'm gonna... What I'm gonna do. And

714
00:24:17,586 --> 00:24:19,125
some of that is getting locked in

715
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:22,715
by, like, the art. Right? So I've chatted

716
00:24:22,715 --> 00:24:25,132
with a cultural consultant about how to make

717
00:24:25,192 --> 00:24:26,810
the game a little bit more global

718
00:24:27,521 --> 00:24:29,747
I have 72 unique dishes in this game,

719
00:24:30,144 --> 00:24:31,814
and so I've got an artist working on

720
00:24:31,814 --> 00:24:33,721
those. And once we create a dish. Right?

721
00:24:33,881 --> 00:24:34,039
Like,

722
00:24:34,834 --> 00:24:36,995
I can't pay for, you know, a hundred

723
00:24:36,995 --> 00:24:38,822
and 50 different pieces of art as I,

724
00:24:38,901 --> 00:24:40,434
like, waffle my way around

725
00:24:41,205 --> 00:24:43,349
what should be the things. Right? So it's

726
00:24:43,349 --> 00:24:45,176
pieces of the game are starting to lock

727
00:24:45,176 --> 00:24:45,493
down.

728
00:24:47,903 --> 00:24:49,981
And it's it's great. Because now I've got

729
00:24:49,981 --> 00:24:51,739
a little bit more of a constraint system

730
00:24:51,739 --> 00:24:53,257
of, like, I'm probably not gonna change that.

731
00:24:53,497 --> 00:24:55,575
I can change the values associated with that,

732
00:24:55,735 --> 00:24:56,967
but not gonna change

733
00:24:58,060 --> 00:25:00,688
the distribution of flavors in the deck because

734
00:25:00,768 --> 00:25:03,635
I have carefully plotted out all 72 of

735
00:25:03,635 --> 00:25:05,877
these and, like, those need those flavor

736
00:25:06,354 --> 00:25:08,736
ratios need to be locked in. Right? So

737
00:25:08,815 --> 00:25:10,244
I can tweak the points, but I can't

738
00:25:10,244 --> 00:25:12,468
tweak the ratios at this point.

739
00:25:14,075 --> 00:25:14,575
So

740
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:17,662
so, yeah, I... I you know, I very

741
00:25:17,662 --> 00:25:19,815
intentionally went through development with winning circle, and

742
00:25:19,974 --> 00:25:22,543
I think I very panicked and without realizing

743
00:25:22,543 --> 00:25:24,541
it went through development on pirates.

744
00:25:26,459 --> 00:25:29,356
And so so that was 2 interesting processes

745
00:25:29,416 --> 00:25:30,455
to do at the same time.

746
00:25:32,147 --> 00:25:34,701
I do think, you know, I'm still working

747
00:25:34,701 --> 00:25:35,100
on the...

748
00:25:35,818 --> 00:25:38,452
How do I put pencils down on pirates?

749
00:25:38,692 --> 00:25:40,861
And in fact, Eric last night asked me.

750
00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:42,637
He was like, so when is it

751
00:25:43,253 --> 00:25:45,885
enough? Right? When is it done enough? Because

752
00:25:45,885 --> 00:25:48,597
it'll never be done. Right? But when is

753
00:25:48,597 --> 00:25:49,097
it

754
00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:52,130
you know, this is the Mvp. This is

755
00:25:52,130 --> 00:25:53,730
the the version that goes out.

756
00:25:55,410 --> 00:25:55,910
And

757
00:25:57,101 --> 00:25:58,394
I do think I'm really

758
00:25:58,926 --> 00:26:01,227
close to that. Right? I'm I'm playing with

759
00:26:01,227 --> 00:26:01,861
1 change,

760
00:26:03,607 --> 00:26:04,821
and I think that's

761
00:26:05,368 --> 00:26:06,324
That's it. Right?

762
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,148
So we'll see. Hold me accountable the next

763
00:26:10,148 --> 00:26:12,401
time we chat. Did I actually stop

764
00:26:13,175 --> 00:26:13,972
before Gen con?

765
00:26:14,942 --> 00:26:17,008
Or did I or did I push on

766
00:26:17,008 --> 00:26:19,711
into, you know, forever and ever. But, you

767
00:26:19,711 --> 00:26:21,618
know, the realities of timeline are just...

768
00:26:22,334 --> 00:26:23,628
I gotta get this thing

769
00:26:24,893 --> 00:26:27,120
built so that I can get preview copies

770
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,552
out so that I can get previews to

771
00:26:28,552 --> 00:26:30,143
look at it before I launch my kickstarter

772
00:26:30,143 --> 00:26:31,909
in the fall. And so I just gotta,

773
00:26:32,068 --> 00:26:33,182
like, snap the chalk line,

774
00:26:34,217 --> 00:26:36,127
and that's... I think that's happening in the

775
00:26:36,127 --> 00:26:37,877
next 2, 3 weeks here.

776
00:26:38,929 --> 00:26:40,767
So that's... I don't know. That's been my

777
00:26:40,767 --> 00:26:41,645
development journey.

778
00:26:43,004 --> 00:26:45,321
I've played those 2 games a lot, like,

779
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,408
a lot a lot. A lot. Most of

780
00:26:47,408 --> 00:26:49,794
pub was dedicated to playing those 2 games.

781
00:26:49,953 --> 00:26:50,272
And so,

782
00:26:51,544 --> 00:26:52,897
so many times played those games.

783
00:26:55,869 --> 00:26:57,710
Yeah. So I I think the the 1

784
00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:58,190
thing that

785
00:27:00,109 --> 00:27:01,230
that you're talking about, like,

786
00:27:02,121 --> 00:27:03,868
having outside eyes. Right? And I think that

787
00:27:03,868 --> 00:27:04,424
is important.

788
00:27:05,139 --> 00:27:07,466
But I think that, 1 thing that your

789
00:27:07,521 --> 00:27:09,690
situation is slightly different in the sense that

790
00:27:10,318 --> 00:27:11,994
Sometimes people have an idea for game and

791
00:27:11,994 --> 00:27:13,431
they're gonna maybe it's to first game whatever

792
00:27:13,431 --> 00:27:14,707
they're gonna kick start it. And so, like,

793
00:27:14,867 --> 00:27:16,463
you, they make it. They take it somewhere

794
00:27:16,463 --> 00:27:17,580
they test a little bit. And they're, like,

795
00:27:18,075 --> 00:27:19,914
it's great. Everyone loves it, and, like, they're

796
00:27:19,914 --> 00:27:21,275
ready to just, like, put it up there.

797
00:27:21,994 --> 00:27:22,494
And

798
00:27:23,115 --> 00:27:25,115
a lot of times, it's probably not ready.

799
00:27:25,355 --> 00:27:25,515
Right?

800
00:27:26,406 --> 00:27:28,312
Regardless of, like, just in the general sense

801
00:27:28,312 --> 00:27:28,789
on average.

802
00:27:29,504 --> 00:27:30,775
But I think the I think the 1

803
00:27:30,775 --> 00:27:32,228
thing that you said

804
00:27:33,555 --> 00:27:34,429
were maybe, like,

805
00:27:36,667 --> 00:27:37,167
nec

806
00:27:38,095 --> 00:27:40,078
less need for an external developer is,

807
00:27:40,634 --> 00:27:41,983
the fact that you have taken it so

808
00:27:41,983 --> 00:27:43,331
many places and play it with so many

809
00:27:43,331 --> 00:27:43,887
different people.

810
00:27:44,537 --> 00:27:46,684
Right? Because, like, at some level, like, when

811
00:27:46,684 --> 00:27:48,115
even when you're, like, going to... Like, have

812
00:27:48,115 --> 00:27:49,307
game this ready, and you take its un

813
00:27:49,307 --> 00:27:50,738
pub and say you're playing it after hours

814
00:27:50,738 --> 00:27:51,771
with a bunch of other designers,

815
00:27:52,898 --> 00:27:54,486
And, like, someone's like, hey, you should try

816
00:27:54,486 --> 00:27:56,709
to change this or whatever. I mean, that's

817
00:27:56,709 --> 00:27:58,455
the kind thing you're doing in development anyway.

818
00:27:58,694 --> 00:28:00,202
And so if you've done that with enough

819
00:28:00,202 --> 00:28:00,702
people

820
00:28:01,409 --> 00:28:03,085
you you know, you you're not having the

821
00:28:03,085 --> 00:28:04,441
blind spots that

822
00:28:05,717 --> 00:28:08,031
a neo fight designer might have of, like,

823
00:28:08,922 --> 00:28:10,113
you know, I play this with my friends

824
00:28:10,113 --> 00:28:11,700
and family, and they think it's awesome and

825
00:28:11,779 --> 00:28:13,923
I'm gonna, you know, make a million dollar

826
00:28:13,923 --> 00:28:16,200
kickstarter or whatever. Right? So Yeah Because

827
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:18,235
you've been working on it a while, and

828
00:28:18,235 --> 00:28:19,991
you've taken at lots of places and put

829
00:28:19,991 --> 00:28:21,428
it in front of lots of different people.

830
00:28:22,306 --> 00:28:24,882
You've gotten basically, like, a bunch of little

831
00:28:25,513 --> 00:28:26,625
for that lack, a better word I'm gonna

832
00:28:26,625 --> 00:28:29,008
say many development sessions. Yeah. And so...

833
00:28:30,437 --> 00:28:32,105
And and... Because they... Even if, like, a

834
00:28:32,105 --> 00:28:33,614
a developer is gonna say, like, let's try

835
00:28:33,614 --> 00:28:35,298
this. Didn't work. Let's try this. Didn't work.

836
00:28:35,458 --> 00:28:36,277
Right? And so

837
00:28:36,894 --> 00:28:38,568
because you've iterate reiterated on that and not

838
00:28:38,568 --> 00:28:40,563
just been stuck inside your own head. Right?

839
00:28:40,642 --> 00:28:42,317
Because I think that's the thing. Always get

840
00:28:42,317 --> 00:28:43,753
blind spots on all our games, I do

841
00:28:43,753 --> 00:28:44,231
it with mine.

842
00:28:45,362 --> 00:28:47,113
So having somebody else, like, say, like, well,

843
00:28:47,272 --> 00:28:48,625
did you try this or could you smooth

844
00:28:48,625 --> 00:28:49,500
this out or whatever?

845
00:28:51,251 --> 00:28:52,922
So that that helps you not be stuck

846
00:28:52,922 --> 00:28:54,844
in that in that lube. So I think

847
00:28:54,844 --> 00:28:56,904
that maybe that's kinda what happened here where

848
00:28:56,904 --> 00:28:59,307
you didn't really need the external person because

849
00:28:59,758 --> 00:29:01,367
you've gotten the same

850
00:29:02,072 --> 00:29:05,270
effect from a bunch of, like, mini sessions

851
00:29:05,722 --> 00:29:06,754
across a lot of people in a lot

852
00:29:06,754 --> 00:29:07,548
of different times.

853
00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:08,739
Yeah.

854
00:29:09,469 --> 00:29:10,745
I think so. And I think, you know,

855
00:29:10,904 --> 00:29:12,339
the other thing is this game has been

856
00:29:12,339 --> 00:29:15,608
through so many iterations. It had dice at

857
00:29:15,608 --> 00:29:18,261
1 point. It had a, you know, a

858
00:29:18,814 --> 00:29:19,793
like a Cas,

859
00:29:21,371 --> 00:29:23,209
draft where you're drafting 2 things from the

860
00:29:23,209 --> 00:29:25,366
same slot. It... I mean, it's just... The

861
00:29:25,366 --> 00:29:27,136
very first game was, like, can you get

862
00:29:27,136 --> 00:29:29,601
enough butter and flour and sugar to, you

863
00:29:29,601 --> 00:29:31,986
know, bake a bake a cake? Right? It

864
00:29:31,986 --> 00:29:33,974
was it was totally different type of sec

865
00:29:33,974 --> 00:29:34,133
collection?

866
00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:36,080
So

867
00:29:36,695 --> 00:29:38,446
so some of that is just, like, it

868
00:29:38,446 --> 00:29:40,357
it's just been through so many different things

869
00:29:40,357 --> 00:29:40,835
that, like,

870
00:29:41,551 --> 00:29:42,688
it's had a full

871
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:44,035
a full life cycle.

872
00:29:45,071 --> 00:29:46,903
I think the thing that I was looking

873
00:29:46,903 --> 00:29:49,077
for with a developer was

874
00:29:50,744 --> 00:29:53,784
someone to help with the, like, decision anxiety.

875
00:29:54,424 --> 00:29:56,505
Right? Of these places where I'm just I'm

876
00:29:56,505 --> 00:29:58,825
just saying that's it. I've chosen it's the

877
00:29:58,825 --> 00:30:01,240
answer, just someone to go Yeah. I think

878
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,160
that's right. I think that's a good idea.

879
00:30:04,679 --> 00:30:05,179
And

880
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,099
I don't know if I just

881
00:30:08,133 --> 00:30:10,446
ran out of time or ran out of

882
00:30:10,446 --> 00:30:12,599
patients and said that's it. I'm deciding. I'm

883
00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:13,557
using my own judgment,

884
00:30:14,913 --> 00:30:16,667
or maybe I'm more confident in my own

885
00:30:16,667 --> 00:30:19,707
judgment, but I'm I've decided to use my

886
00:30:19,707 --> 00:30:20,344
own judgment,

887
00:30:21,776 --> 00:30:23,287
which is what I was gonna do at

888
00:30:23,287 --> 00:30:24,082
the end of the day.

889
00:30:25,291 --> 00:30:27,203
So now instead of having the doubt of,

890
00:30:27,283 --> 00:30:28,955
you know, someone else disagreed with me, and

891
00:30:29,115 --> 00:30:30,947
I did it anyway. I'm gonna have the

892
00:30:30,947 --> 00:30:33,257
doubt of... Well, I never really got another

893
00:30:33,257 --> 00:30:35,018
opinion, and I did it anyway.

894
00:30:36,682 --> 00:30:38,187
So either way has doubts,

895
00:30:38,979 --> 00:30:39,955
and I just,

896
00:30:40,484 --> 00:30:42,009
you know, This is what I wanna do.

897
00:30:42,168 --> 00:30:43,600
So I'm just gonna own it and make

898
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:44,975
my choices and,

899
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:46,941
you know, roll the dice. See how... See

900
00:30:46,941 --> 00:30:47,816
how it lands. Right?

901
00:30:49,266 --> 00:30:49,505
Yeah.

902
00:30:50,143 --> 00:30:52,455
Well, like you said, game... You know, that's

903
00:30:52,455 --> 00:30:54,130
the old right. Games are never finished, or

904
00:30:54,130 --> 00:30:54,528
just shipped.

905
00:30:55,326 --> 00:30:56,921
So, you know, I I think the thing

906
00:30:56,921 --> 00:30:59,156
is, like, you know, make some decisions with

907
00:30:59,156 --> 00:31:01,162
intention and and kinda move forward in

908
00:31:01,613 --> 00:31:02,113
and

909
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:05,754
you know, can worry about it later or

910
00:31:05,754 --> 00:31:07,426
your next game or second edition or whatever,

911
00:31:07,586 --> 00:31:09,179
but, like, this is gonna be what this

912
00:31:09,179 --> 00:31:10,931
version is gonna be and and that's gonna

913
00:31:10,931 --> 00:31:11,409
be okay.

914
00:31:12,285 --> 00:31:12,524
Yeah.

915
00:31:13,653 --> 00:31:15,003
Alright. Number 3.

916
00:31:16,115 --> 00:31:17,623
The the third and last thing that I

917
00:31:17,623 --> 00:31:19,132
had on my list was

918
00:31:20,006 --> 00:31:22,250
that I was considering this 2 player line

919
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:22,650
of games,

920
00:31:24,009 --> 00:31:25,929
with a lot of intention and a very

921
00:31:25,929 --> 00:31:27,690
specific focus. 2 player only,

922
00:31:28,410 --> 00:31:29,289
mostly 0 some,

923
00:31:30,982 --> 00:31:31,882
most with a

924
00:31:32,659 --> 00:31:35,714
line or a component of bluff, double bluff

925
00:31:35,932 --> 00:31:37,928
princess bride, I powder or whatever words you

926
00:31:37,928 --> 00:31:41,296
wanna use, kinda moments where, like, you're getting

927
00:31:41,296 --> 00:31:42,892
tight each other's heads a little bit, and

928
00:31:42,892 --> 00:31:44,807
that's the game as much as the the

929
00:31:44,807 --> 00:31:45,685
components on the table.

930
00:31:46,643 --> 00:31:47,143
And

931
00:31:48,174 --> 00:31:49,235
you know, small box

932
00:31:49,695 --> 00:31:51,535
size of a hard back book, 20 dollars,

933
00:31:51,855 --> 00:31:53,134
You, that was kind of the vision.

934
00:31:54,335 --> 00:31:54,815
And so,

935
00:31:56,109 --> 00:31:57,388
I did some stuff with that. Right?

936
00:31:58,106 --> 00:31:59,385
I ain't shared a booth with someone.

937
00:32:00,823 --> 00:32:01,462
They were okay.

938
00:32:02,421 --> 00:32:03,194
That. Could've been

939
00:32:03,791 --> 00:32:05,462
it sounds wonderful whoever they are.

940
00:32:07,691 --> 00:32:09,442
So, like, you know, I I had to

941
00:32:09,442 --> 00:32:11,033
get signs me made An art made for

942
00:32:11,033 --> 00:32:12,759
the signs because I have not artists

943
00:32:13,992 --> 00:32:16,458
and I, you know, got stands made and

944
00:32:16,458 --> 00:32:18,867
shipped from China and all the things. And

945
00:32:20,435 --> 00:32:21,365
yeah. And so

946
00:32:21,804 --> 00:32:22,921
that's where I was at Origins.

947
00:32:24,199 --> 00:32:25,875
I didn't have any... I didn't schedule any

948
00:32:25,875 --> 00:32:27,871
blocks in the input room. I did end

949
00:32:27,871 --> 00:32:29,787
doing some other things, but, like, my focus

950
00:32:29,787 --> 00:32:31,086
was just to try to

951
00:32:31,478 --> 00:32:32,852
go to origins and

952
00:32:33,464 --> 00:32:34,735
kind of, like, put this...

953
00:32:35,609 --> 00:32:36,801
I put 1 or 2 of my games

954
00:32:36,801 --> 00:32:38,811
out, but also, like, just this concept

955
00:32:39,185 --> 00:32:39,661
in general.

956
00:32:40,234 --> 00:32:41,592
In front of people and and, like,

957
00:32:42,551 --> 00:32:44,149
I I had an app to collect emails

958
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:45,028
if people wanted to.

959
00:32:45,747 --> 00:32:47,185
But my kind of my bigger focus was

960
00:32:47,185 --> 00:32:49,432
just to, like, get people's opinion. Right? Just

961
00:32:49,432 --> 00:32:51,581
to, like, get their feedback, see if they

962
00:32:51,581 --> 00:32:53,650
sounded like this is something they would want

963
00:32:53,650 --> 00:32:54,946
or not want or

964
00:32:55,814 --> 00:32:56,688
if they're ambivalent.

965
00:32:58,278 --> 00:32:58,778
So

966
00:32:59,709 --> 00:33:01,855
I I think generally speaking as far as

967
00:33:01,855 --> 00:33:02,650
the line goes,

968
00:33:03,779 --> 00:33:05,692
I had some really good feedback. Talked to,

969
00:33:06,808 --> 00:33:07,706
a retailer

970
00:33:08,083 --> 00:33:09,677
who was walking around early Thursday morning.

971
00:33:10,873 --> 00:33:11,192
And

972
00:33:12,163 --> 00:33:13,518
I was kind of explaining the line to

973
00:33:13,518 --> 00:33:14,953
him, and I was talking about some the

974
00:33:14,953 --> 00:33:16,786
different games. So like I... I mostly had...

975
00:33:17,265 --> 00:33:18,540
We are we were going heavily pirate themes,

976
00:33:18,699 --> 00:33:20,467
So I had black Beard versus Captain Morgan,

977
00:33:20,626 --> 00:33:21,898
which is, like, again, it plays a little

978
00:33:21,898 --> 00:33:23,330
bit like battleship with bluff.

979
00:33:24,285 --> 00:33:25,955
It's more complicated than that, but that's kinda

980
00:33:25,955 --> 00:33:26,751
how feels to play.

981
00:33:28,125 --> 00:33:28,444
And

982
00:33:29,244 --> 00:33:30,605
so I was demoing that and some other

983
00:33:30,605 --> 00:33:32,845
stuff. I had my 2 player bidding game.

984
00:33:33,005 --> 00:33:34,525
And so anyway, I talked this retailer. Like,

985
00:33:34,684 --> 00:33:35,897
I have this game and, like, each 1

986
00:33:35,897 --> 00:33:37,484
is a different mechanism, so they're not just

987
00:33:37,484 --> 00:33:38,992
all, like, drafting games or something,

988
00:33:39,865 --> 00:33:41,532
and have a different theme, different,

989
00:33:42,564 --> 00:33:43,914
gameplay mechanisms and stuff.

990
00:33:44,882 --> 00:33:47,187
And, like, he was super receptive to it,

991
00:33:47,346 --> 00:33:49,174
Like, this guy would basically... If I had

992
00:33:49,174 --> 00:33:50,605
had games, he would about 10 of each.

993
00:33:51,798 --> 00:33:53,388
I so I explained the pirate game and

994
00:33:53,388 --> 00:33:55,393
he's, like, Oh, yeah. He's like, I would

995
00:33:55,393 --> 00:33:57,224
totally take that, you know, for 20 dollar,

996
00:33:57,384 --> 00:33:57,463
like,

997
00:33:58,339 --> 00:34:00,171
retail pricing. It's like, you yeah. I know

998
00:34:00,171 --> 00:34:01,445
5 people who would buy it this week.

999
00:34:01,684 --> 00:34:02,615
Right? And so

1000
00:34:03,131 --> 00:34:05,357
just talking, like, from logistics from his store,

1001
00:34:05,437 --> 00:34:06,789
like, he likes to have a section of,

1002
00:34:06,868 --> 00:34:07,027
like,

1003
00:34:07,743 --> 00:34:09,889
cheaper party games and stuff like that near

1004
00:34:09,889 --> 00:34:12,116
the register and, like, some 2 player stuff.

1005
00:34:12,449 --> 00:34:13,886
You know, so maybe more like patchwork work

1006
00:34:13,886 --> 00:34:15,083
or other things like that. I don't know

1007
00:34:15,083 --> 00:34:16,919
for for sure, But he likes to have

1008
00:34:16,919 --> 00:34:18,675
a section, like, in the summer for, like,

1009
00:34:19,473 --> 00:34:20,591
beach friendly games. Right?

1010
00:34:21,403 --> 00:34:22,357
Games that are easy to throw in a

1011
00:34:22,357 --> 00:34:22,857
backpack

1012
00:34:23,947 --> 00:34:25,480
and play at the bar or

1013
00:34:26,013 --> 00:34:27,706
wanna on a table 1 the patio

1014
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,828
of your hotel or things like that. And

1015
00:34:29,828 --> 00:34:31,437
so, like this this line has that. Right?

1016
00:34:31,597 --> 00:34:32,815
It's a small footprint

1017
00:34:33,352 --> 00:34:35,587
to play as well as small box to

1018
00:34:35,587 --> 00:34:35,826
carry.

1019
00:34:36,624 --> 00:34:37,901
And so he was really

1020
00:34:38,873 --> 00:34:39,990
he was really jazz. Like,

1021
00:34:40,788 --> 00:34:42,702
couldn't wait to give me his email and,

1022
00:34:42,782 --> 00:34:44,297
like, hope that he could buy these in

1023
00:34:44,297 --> 00:34:45,356
the future. So

1024
00:34:45,733 --> 00:34:47,328
that was pretty gratifying. Ryan. So I talked

1025
00:34:47,328 --> 00:34:49,019
to some other people. I won't, like, get

1026
00:34:49,019 --> 00:34:50,219
get through all of it. Some of it

1027
00:34:50,219 --> 00:34:51,340
move on the consumer side,

1028
00:34:52,219 --> 00:34:54,539
potential customers walking by, and then a couple

1029
00:34:54,539 --> 00:34:55,980
other the people who did have more of

1030
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:56,434
a

1031
00:34:56,872 --> 00:34:58,541
industry bent to their perspective.

1032
00:34:59,177 --> 00:35:00,767
And so I think by and large, the

1033
00:35:01,721 --> 00:35:03,231
the response I got for the people I

1034
00:35:03,231 --> 00:35:03,788
did talk to.

1035
00:35:04,439 --> 00:35:05,396
Was pretty positive.

1036
00:35:06,513 --> 00:35:07,949
Convention like that, it's always hard to tell

1037
00:35:07,949 --> 00:35:09,464
as people are walking by. Some people are

1038
00:35:09,464 --> 00:35:09,863
just, like,

1039
00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:13,692
bored or or knows what they're doing. Overwhelmed.

1040
00:35:14,662 --> 00:35:15,617
Yeah. A lot better.

1041
00:35:17,049 --> 00:35:18,481
But, I mean, it as far as, like,

1042
00:35:19,038 --> 00:35:20,948
you know, I had this, like, tangent goal

1043
00:35:20,948 --> 00:35:22,872
of, like, you know, so I'm doing some

1044
00:35:22,872 --> 00:35:25,520
audience testing more than audience building. And

1045
00:35:25,974 --> 00:35:27,884
I think from us build building, which was,

1046
00:35:27,963 --> 00:35:28,574
like, a

1047
00:35:29,014 --> 00:35:31,175
tangent goal, like, that didn't go as well.

1048
00:35:31,335 --> 00:35:33,414
And, like, prada is just because,

1049
00:35:35,094 --> 00:35:36,775
I thought we said this on the hunt

1050
00:35:36,855 --> 00:35:37,815
Origins recap call.

1051
00:35:38,469 --> 00:35:39,503
Origins was pretty dead.

1052
00:35:41,729 --> 00:35:43,398
It was not the numbers that there used

1053
00:35:43,398 --> 00:35:45,170
to be... It... It's a

1054
00:35:45,625 --> 00:35:46,658
shell of its former self.

1055
00:35:48,583 --> 00:35:49,619
There's just a bunch of things that are

1056
00:35:49,619 --> 00:35:51,454
really weird. Like, 60 percent of the boots

1057
00:35:51,454 --> 00:35:53,129
didn't even have games. There was a lot

1058
00:35:53,129 --> 00:35:55,862
of art and jewelry and t shirts and

1059
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,776
pictures and swords and

1060
00:35:58,327 --> 00:35:59,145
very nerd

1061
00:36:00,078 --> 00:36:00,555
gaming

1062
00:36:01,112 --> 00:36:01,988
adjacent, but not.

1063
00:36:03,261 --> 00:36:04,534
You give... You go walk past a lot

1064
00:36:04,534 --> 00:36:06,126
of stuff, not just Artist Row where they

1065
00:36:06,126 --> 00:36:08,131
didn't... There was any games. To buy, like

1066
00:36:08,131 --> 00:36:09,884
you literally couldn't buy a game. A lot

1067
00:36:09,884 --> 00:36:10,283
of dice,

1068
00:36:11,398 --> 00:36:13,469
which yeah that's an Rpg, but, like, not

1069
00:36:13,469 --> 00:36:14,346
actual, like, board games.

1070
00:36:15,317 --> 00:36:16,057
And so

1071
00:36:16,673 --> 00:36:18,826
that's kind of frustrating. Like, they had... They

1072
00:36:18,826 --> 00:36:20,659
basically took an 80 by 80 area of,

1073
00:36:20,818 --> 00:36:20,978
like,

1074
00:36:21,775 --> 00:36:22,732
pretty prime time.

1075
00:36:24,103 --> 00:36:26,016
Boost space, and they set it up with

1076
00:36:26,016 --> 00:36:28,409
kids games like giant gen, which unfortunately was

1077
00:36:28,409 --> 00:36:29,844
near us and scared people constantly.

1078
00:36:30,801 --> 00:36:31,360
And so, like,

1079
00:36:33,688 --> 00:36:35,362
III know they're starting to do some stuff.

1080
00:36:35,522 --> 00:36:36,958
They made some hires this year. I'm talking

1081
00:36:36,958 --> 00:36:38,952
about gamma. And... But they need to figure

1082
00:36:38,952 --> 00:36:40,866
out what they want this con to be

1083
00:36:40,866 --> 00:36:42,621
because right now, I, like,

1084
00:36:43,987 --> 00:36:45,256
I don't know if I'm going back even

1085
00:36:45,256 --> 00:36:46,764
to, like, hang out the prob room next

1086
00:36:46,764 --> 00:36:48,747
year, Like, unless something happens where I need

1087
00:36:48,747 --> 00:36:49,699
to meet with somebody, like,

1088
00:36:50,749 --> 00:36:53,066
Pub had an amazing space, opening right up

1089
00:36:53,066 --> 00:36:54,744
on the main hall, right across some hall,

1090
00:36:54,823 --> 00:36:56,661
be extra exit, which is like the main

1091
00:36:56,661 --> 00:36:56,820
1.

1092
00:36:57,793 --> 00:37:00,021
And, like, I was like, man, Like, when

1093
00:37:00,021 --> 00:37:01,691
it's busy, they're gonna be people waiting at

1094
00:37:01,691 --> 00:37:04,237
tables to play games and just didn't happen.

1095
00:37:05,764 --> 00:37:06,958
I mean there were people there, but it

1096
00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:09,186
wasn't, like, it wasn't any busier than when

1097
00:37:09,186 --> 00:37:10,540
it went on unpublished was hidden in the

1098
00:37:10,540 --> 00:37:11,438
back. So

1099
00:37:12,784 --> 00:37:14,220
Yeah. Gamma needs to figure out what they

1100
00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:16,135
wanna be and and who they're trying to

1101
00:37:16,135 --> 00:37:19,427
serve. I think this con has turned into

1102
00:37:20,139 --> 00:37:22,692
This is my personal opinion. So at me,

1103
00:37:22,932 --> 00:37:23,490
not anyone else.

1104
00:37:24,927 --> 00:37:27,400
Has turned into a hangout play games convention.

1105
00:37:27,894 --> 00:37:28,213
Meaning,

1106
00:37:28,771 --> 00:37:30,525
people aren't coming there to get much of

1107
00:37:30,525 --> 00:37:32,438
anything. Maybe they'll buy 1 game, but, like,

1108
00:37:32,995 --> 00:37:34,271
they're just gonna go hang out in hall

1109
00:37:34,271 --> 00:37:36,278
c and play games with their friends. And,

1110
00:37:36,358 --> 00:37:37,555
like, that's what they're doing.

1111
00:37:38,432 --> 00:37:39,629
And that's cool for them.

1112
00:37:40,825 --> 00:37:42,739
But, like, that's not great for the the

1113
00:37:42,739 --> 00:37:44,494
retail side of of people trying to, like,

1114
00:37:44,653 --> 00:37:47,061
get product out and get get their art

1115
00:37:47,061 --> 00:37:48,257
out into a world. So...

1116
00:37:51,368 --> 00:37:53,042
Yeah. And and the thing is, like, the

1117
00:37:53,042 --> 00:37:54,876
boost are or cost prohibitive. Right? Like,

1118
00:37:55,688 --> 00:37:57,439
1 last thing I'll say, like, that I

1119
00:37:57,439 --> 00:37:59,190
kinda taken away from this. My my initial

1120
00:37:59,190 --> 00:38:00,860
thing with this line was, like, kind of

1121
00:38:00,860 --> 00:38:01,815
a 3 pronged detect.

1122
00:38:02,452 --> 00:38:05,013
So if I do it, things progress you

1123
00:38:05,013 --> 00:38:06,364
know, a kick start, and then,

1124
00:38:07,397 --> 00:38:09,065
obviously, I could sell. From my website, these

1125
00:38:09,065 --> 00:38:10,734
are small box games. So, like, it won't

1126
00:38:10,734 --> 00:38:11,687
take up a lot of storage for me

1127
00:38:11,687 --> 00:38:13,276
to warehouse at myself at my house.

1128
00:38:13,927 --> 00:38:15,438
And then I was like, oh, like, these

1129
00:38:15,438 --> 00:38:16,948
gains would be a great con pickup. Right?

1130
00:38:17,346 --> 00:38:20,128
20 dollars. Yep. Ham try 20 dollar bill

1131
00:38:20,128 --> 00:38:21,797
walk away. I'll tell I'll handle the tax

1132
00:38:21,797 --> 00:38:23,720
whatever, and, like, could play at the bar

1133
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:25,708
that night or whatever. I think that's true.

1134
00:38:26,741 --> 00:38:28,172
I still think that that could have a

1135
00:38:28,172 --> 00:38:30,182
pretty big upside. But the problem is

1136
00:38:31,842 --> 00:38:34,224
Financially, it doesn't make sense. Right. I'm selling

1137
00:38:34,224 --> 00:38:36,130
these games for 20 bucks. And so, like,

1138
00:38:36,288 --> 00:38:38,273
let's see even just say I'm making 15.

1139
00:38:39,162 --> 00:38:40,675
Like, I'm doing all the work. Right? Just

1140
00:38:40,675 --> 00:38:41,573
me. And,

1141
00:38:42,505 --> 00:38:44,098
you know, a full size 10 by 10

1142
00:38:44,098 --> 00:38:44,336
booths,

1143
00:38:45,053 --> 00:38:46,898
You know I was like, 1500 bucks. So

1144
00:38:47,057 --> 00:38:48,410
I have to sell a hundred copies of

1145
00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:49,683
a game. I have saw hundred games.

1146
00:38:51,195 --> 00:38:52,172
Take to 0

1147
00:38:52,786 --> 00:38:53,661
to not lose money.

1148
00:38:54,632 --> 00:38:56,727
And if the numbers are, like, they were

1149
00:38:57,423 --> 00:38:57,923
this

1150
00:38:58,380 --> 00:39:00,692
this past weekend, next year, like, III mean,

1151
00:39:00,931 --> 00:39:02,128
I don't know if no could do that.

1152
00:39:02,367 --> 00:39:02,526
Like,

1153
00:39:03,179 --> 00:39:05,257
and, obviously, getting bigger booth or further upfront

1154
00:39:05,257 --> 00:39:06,935
or whatever, like, you're just you're paying more.

1155
00:39:07,095 --> 00:39:07,595
So

1156
00:39:08,054 --> 00:39:09,812
I think that that's... That makes it really,

1157
00:39:09,972 --> 00:39:12,782
really challenging, especially for an Andy indie publisher,

1158
00:39:13,181 --> 00:39:14,457
At they have a special thing if you're

1159
00:39:14,457 --> 00:39:16,530
the first time exhibit, and that's a lot

1160
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:18,365
cheaper, but still, it's like, there was a

1161
00:39:18,365 --> 00:39:20,678
person next to us selling some really cool

1162
00:39:20,678 --> 00:39:21,475
candles that were, like,

1163
00:39:22,208 --> 00:39:24,123
they were awesome. Blob with a thing inside

1164
00:39:24,123 --> 00:39:25,800
it, and as it melted, the thing came

1165
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:26,358
out and, like,

1166
00:39:27,077 --> 00:39:29,471
really cool stuff. And, like, they were there

1167
00:39:29,471 --> 00:39:30,085
on the

1168
00:39:30,524 --> 00:39:32,303
600 dollar first time exhibit

1169
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:34,520
special.

1170
00:39:35,319 --> 00:39:37,157
And they basically said they didn't sell enough

1171
00:39:37,157 --> 00:39:40,048
to profit to even cover that. They were

1172
00:39:40,048 --> 00:39:41,085
not gonna come back next year.

1173
00:39:41,802 --> 00:39:42,541
And so

1174
00:39:43,397 --> 00:39:45,790
that really changes the math. And so 1

1175
00:39:45,790 --> 00:39:47,464
thing that I've probably decided is that, like,

1176
00:39:47,624 --> 00:39:48,682
it would take some

1177
00:39:49,551 --> 00:39:50,607
pretty special

1178
00:39:50,981 --> 00:39:51,481
circumstances

1179
00:39:52,411 --> 00:39:53,681
for me to ever sell this line at

1180
00:39:53,681 --> 00:39:56,144
a convention. Mh. And, like, Origins is 1

1181
00:39:56,144 --> 00:39:57,891
of the cheaper ones. Right? So, like, gen

1182
00:39:57,891 --> 00:40:00,050
cons, like, way more expensive. And packs on

1183
00:40:00,050 --> 00:40:01,717
unplugged, you can't even get a booth, and

1184
00:40:01,717 --> 00:40:03,304
it's gonna be more expensive too. Right? So

1185
00:40:03,304 --> 00:40:05,367
then you're not talking about a hundred copies

1186
00:40:05,367 --> 00:40:06,875
of your again, you're talking about 200 or

1187
00:40:06,875 --> 00:40:07,534
300

1188
00:40:08,319 --> 00:40:10,304
And, like, and that's to get to 0.

1189
00:40:10,543 --> 00:40:12,687
Right? That's to not lose money. And yeah,

1190
00:40:12,766 --> 00:40:14,514
it's a marketing expense, but, like, that's a

1191
00:40:14,514 --> 00:40:16,579
lot of marketing expense. And then that's also,

1192
00:40:16,737 --> 00:40:16,817
like,

1193
00:40:17,706 --> 00:40:18,898
you at the booth 8 hours a day,

1194
00:40:19,137 --> 00:40:21,044
or you're losing giving more money to pay

1195
00:40:21,044 --> 00:40:23,134
somebody to be there. And so,

1196
00:40:23,588 --> 00:40:25,514
yeah. I I think that it kind of

1197
00:40:25,514 --> 00:40:26,712
my eyes up to that a little bit

1198
00:40:26,712 --> 00:40:27,452
that maybe

1199
00:40:29,509 --> 00:40:30,648
selling this line

1200
00:40:31,106 --> 00:40:33,039
as a small person. Right? Like, I think

1201
00:40:33,039 --> 00:40:34,320
you have to kinda go bigger go home

1202
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,920
is is kinda where my mindset is at

1203
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,840
this point. And so as a small person,

1204
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,000
like, I I just don't know that, like,

1205
00:40:40,654 --> 00:40:41,853
you can make it work. If you can

1206
00:40:41,853 --> 00:40:43,931
get into, like, the rising showcase, it, like,

1207
00:40:44,091 --> 00:40:45,449
packs some plug and stuff like that. That's

1208
00:40:45,449 --> 00:40:47,527
kind of a free thing, then sure. That's

1209
00:40:47,527 --> 00:40:49,286
great. Like, you can get some eyeballs and

1210
00:40:49,286 --> 00:40:51,460
stuff like that. But there's so many people

1211
00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:52,980
that get into that right each year. Or

1212
00:40:52,980 --> 00:40:56,019
so... It's so small. It's vanishing small. Right?

1213
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:58,579
That it's it's essentially a lottery. Right?

1214
00:40:59,714 --> 00:41:01,392
Yeah. I think they take, like, 6 people

1215
00:41:01,392 --> 00:41:03,629
4 or something. So... Yeah. Yeah. So that

1216
00:41:03,629 --> 00:41:05,626
was kind of my experience with that. I

1217
00:41:05,786 --> 00:41:06,445
I still

1218
00:41:07,078 --> 00:41:08,750
I'm testing the waters with moving this line

1219
00:41:08,750 --> 00:41:10,284
forward, but I think the 1

1220
00:41:11,138 --> 00:41:13,071
the 1 leg of the 3 legged stool

1221
00:41:13,287 --> 00:41:14,402
I was thinking would work.

1222
00:41:15,213 --> 00:41:17,282
I think I think makes sense. I think

1223
00:41:17,282 --> 00:41:18,237
it is a great con,

1224
00:41:19,033 --> 00:41:19,669
kinda pick up,

1225
00:41:20,863 --> 00:41:22,136
me having a booth doesn't work.

1226
00:41:22,788 --> 00:41:25,101
To sell a 20 dollar game. Now the

1227
00:41:25,101 --> 00:41:26,239
other thing that could be

1228
00:41:28,212 --> 00:41:29,488
is if I had a good relationship with

1229
00:41:29,488 --> 00:41:30,126
the publisher,

1230
00:41:30,525 --> 00:41:32,772
not really c branding thing, but, like, it's

1231
00:41:32,772 --> 00:41:34,915
somebody who's selling 60 dollar euros, and they,

1232
00:41:35,074 --> 00:41:37,455
like, want something else. Like, people are walking

1233
00:41:37,455 --> 00:41:39,360
by and, like, they want something that people

1234
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,289
can kinda, like, grab on the way and

1235
00:41:41,838 --> 00:41:44,151
checkout out. So maybe if I could deal

1236
00:41:44,151 --> 00:41:45,666
up a relationship with somebody like that we're,

1237
00:41:45,746 --> 00:41:45,826
like,

1238
00:41:46,703 --> 00:41:48,059
they have my 20 dollar games there and

1239
00:41:48,219 --> 00:41:50,133
I give them 5 bucks a copy, and

1240
00:41:50,293 --> 00:41:51,010
I don't do anything.

1241
00:41:51,584 --> 00:41:53,418
But, like, it gets people to their booth

1242
00:41:53,418 --> 00:41:55,732
and also, like, while they're there, maybe they,

1243
00:41:55,891 --> 00:41:57,088
like, check out a demo of 1 of

1244
00:41:57,088 --> 00:41:57,806
these bigger games.

1245
00:42:00,288 --> 00:42:02,195
Since already paying for the space. Right? So

1246
00:42:02,355 --> 00:42:04,047
I don't know. That could be a possibility.

1247
00:42:05,216 --> 00:42:06,885
This this isn't something that I wanna go

1248
00:42:06,885 --> 00:42:07,544
through the

1249
00:42:07,934 --> 00:42:09,850
whole thing of c branding and distribution and

1250
00:42:09,850 --> 00:42:11,128
all the other kind of stuff. That's not

1251
00:42:11,128 --> 00:42:12,325
my vision for this line, but...

1252
00:42:13,362 --> 00:42:15,997
Yeah. So definitely some lessons learned there.

1253
00:42:17,849 --> 00:42:20,266
And yeah, I'll let you talk more about

1254
00:42:20,806 --> 00:42:23,523
the booth stuff now on your side. Yeah.

1255
00:42:24,401 --> 00:42:25,701
So I think my

1256
00:42:26,652 --> 00:42:27,788
my sort of parallel

1257
00:42:28,244 --> 00:42:30,712
to this is, you know, I've been figuring

1258
00:42:30,712 --> 00:42:31,985
out how to launch Cock.

1259
00:42:33,418 --> 00:42:33,918
And

1260
00:42:34,866 --> 00:42:37,965
So I've been doing the convention circuit. I've

1261
00:42:37,965 --> 00:42:38,999
been I've been trying to figure out how

1262
00:42:38,999 --> 00:42:39,658
to get

1263
00:42:40,112 --> 00:42:42,576
followers how to build organic following and things

1264
00:42:42,576 --> 00:42:44,738
like that. So really what I've been doing

1265
00:42:44,738 --> 00:42:47,206
for the past 6 months is learning about

1266
00:42:47,206 --> 00:42:47,706
marketing

1267
00:42:48,081 --> 00:42:50,150
and figuring out what's gonna work for me.

1268
00:42:50,389 --> 00:42:52,140
So I tried my hand at some of

1269
00:42:52,140 --> 00:42:53,197
the convention

1270
00:42:53,905 --> 00:42:54,405
marketing,

1271
00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:58,296
I will say origins has been the best

1272
00:42:58,352 --> 00:43:01,075
for that. So I've got... I'm up

1273
00:43:01,781 --> 00:43:04,636
almost 60 kickstarter followers, which, you know, if

1274
00:43:04,636 --> 00:43:06,461
you think about cost per follower, that's not

1275
00:43:06,461 --> 00:43:09,530
great. Right? But, it's more than I got

1276
00:43:09,649 --> 00:43:11,634
going to, like Phoenix Fan Fusion, which is,

1277
00:43:11,713 --> 00:43:14,016
like, a Comic style event, a fan event.

1278
00:43:15,048 --> 00:43:17,192
And there I got, you know, 15 or

1279
00:43:17,192 --> 00:43:17,351
so.

1280
00:43:18,001 --> 00:43:20,859
For an entire weekend of demoing in, like,

1281
00:43:21,018 --> 00:43:23,717
a gaming hall as opposed to, you know,

1282
00:43:23,955 --> 00:43:25,360
short demos at

1283
00:43:26,271 --> 00:43:28,358
a booth. Right? So the difference was

1284
00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:30,474
a Phoenix Fan Fusion. I had people sit

1285
00:43:30,474 --> 00:43:31,981
down and actually get to play the game

1286
00:43:31,981 --> 00:43:32,774
for 30 minutes.

1287
00:43:33,664 --> 00:43:35,105
So you only got through, like 10 a

1288
00:43:35,105 --> 00:43:35,344
day,

1289
00:43:36,784 --> 00:43:39,105
or, you know, maybe 12 something like that.

1290
00:43:39,264 --> 00:43:39,425
But,

1291
00:43:40,639 --> 00:43:42,950
whereas I did a ton of demos, a

1292
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:45,261
ton of demos, 2 minute demos at the

1293
00:43:45,261 --> 00:43:45,500
booth.

1294
00:43:46,137 --> 00:43:47,572
And so I got my, you know, sort

1295
00:43:47,572 --> 00:43:50,371
of 60 kicks starter followers and, like, a

1296
00:43:50,371 --> 00:43:52,039
hundred more people on my mailing list, which

1297
00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:53,232
is a big win for me.

1298
00:43:54,027 --> 00:43:55,457
But again, it was a it was a

1299
00:43:55,457 --> 00:43:56,985
big investor Right? It a full week for

1300
00:43:56,985 --> 00:43:59,056
me when you count the driving and and

1301
00:43:59,056 --> 00:43:59,534
all of that.

1302
00:44:00,251 --> 00:44:00,410
So...

1303
00:44:02,401 --> 00:44:03,755
But, you know, it feels like it feels

1304
00:44:03,755 --> 00:44:04,552
like there's momentum.

1305
00:44:05,364 --> 00:44:06,743
I did a number of

1306
00:44:07,122 --> 00:44:09,119
interviews there that are gonna go up on

1307
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:10,797
various sort of social media things.

1308
00:44:11,437 --> 00:44:14,722
I've started my tiktok, and I've started doing

1309
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:15,915
Instagram Reels.

1310
00:44:16,869 --> 00:44:17,369
So

1311
00:44:17,744 --> 00:44:19,414
this week after Origins was a little low

1312
00:44:19,414 --> 00:44:20,527
for that because I was sort of, like,

1313
00:44:21,004 --> 00:44:21,322
recovering.

1314
00:44:21,893 --> 00:44:23,802
But I've got a plan sort, you know,

1315
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,109
Monday that I'm gonna be more active on

1316
00:44:26,109 --> 00:44:26,825
social media.

1317
00:44:27,780 --> 00:44:29,940
All that being said, everything I'm hearing and

1318
00:44:29,940 --> 00:44:32,742
reading is that organic social media is not

1319
00:44:34,624 --> 00:44:36,768
necessarily closing the gap these days in terms

1320
00:44:36,768 --> 00:44:39,246
of getting you to successful kickstarter.

1321
00:44:40,359 --> 00:44:42,268
So I'm also looking at, you know, how

1322
00:44:42,268 --> 00:44:43,881
do I set myself up to do

1323
00:44:44,415 --> 00:44:47,809
no kidding advertising on Facebook and Instagram and

1324
00:44:48,008 --> 00:44:49,039
maybe b gigi g.

1325
00:44:50,785 --> 00:44:51,285
So

1326
00:44:51,817 --> 00:44:53,403
so, yeah, It's it's just sort of, you

1327
00:44:53,403 --> 00:44:54,832
know, 1 step after the other.

1328
00:44:56,118 --> 00:44:58,501
Pushing myself forward on this. Some of it

1329
00:44:58,501 --> 00:45:00,488
is easier for me. Some of it's really

1330
00:45:00,488 --> 00:45:00,726
hard.

1331
00:45:02,156 --> 00:45:03,689
And I'm struggling with

1332
00:45:04,318 --> 00:45:06,070
the activation energy on it.

1333
00:45:07,186 --> 00:45:09,018
And and I'm just struggling with the... It's

1334
00:45:09,018 --> 00:45:10,612
new to me. Right? So which things are

1335
00:45:10,612 --> 00:45:11,112
worth

1336
00:45:11,743 --> 00:45:13,656
which things have a good return on investments?

1337
00:45:13,815 --> 00:45:15,251
And how much of this can I learn

1338
00:45:15,251 --> 00:45:17,164
from other people versus having to, like,

1339
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,769
experience and fail at it

1340
00:45:20,288 --> 00:45:20,527
myself?

1341
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:23,420
So,

1342
00:45:23,797 --> 00:45:25,813
you know, I'm sort of at the

1343
00:45:26,589 --> 00:45:29,141
work more on the organic media, or organic

1344
00:45:29,141 --> 00:45:29,641
marketing

1345
00:45:30,670 --> 00:45:32,502
start figuring out how to do the actual

1346
00:45:32,502 --> 00:45:32,980
marketing,

1347
00:45:33,458 --> 00:45:35,050
because that doesn't actually need to be in

1348
00:45:35,050 --> 00:45:35,550
place

1349
00:45:36,245 --> 00:45:38,236
more than a couple months before the kickstarter,

1350
00:45:38,396 --> 00:45:40,002
but that time is coming up.

1351
00:45:41,832 --> 00:45:43,901
And then, you know, how am I gonna

1352
00:45:43,901 --> 00:45:45,731
do other stuff? Am I gonna do podcasts?

1353
00:45:45,890 --> 00:45:47,242
Am I gonna do... You know, what other

1354
00:45:47,242 --> 00:45:47,775
sort of

1355
00:45:48,212 --> 00:45:50,382
circuit can I do to get more eyeballs

1356
00:45:50,439 --> 00:45:50,837
on this?

1357
00:45:53,303 --> 00:45:54,257
Part of this journey,

1358
00:45:55,147 --> 00:45:56,123
has been

1359
00:45:57,130 --> 00:46:00,090
diving into board game geek in a way

1360
00:46:01,019 --> 00:46:03,003
that I haven't done, so I'm not, you

1361
00:46:03,003 --> 00:46:04,773
know, I'll just confess.

1362
00:46:05,412 --> 00:46:07,649
I'm not a big board game geek user.

1363
00:46:08,527 --> 00:46:11,018
Whenever we're, like, looking up like, Should we

1364
00:46:11,018 --> 00:46:12,374
play this game? You know, what what do

1365
00:46:12,374 --> 00:46:13,889
we know about it? Like, Eric is the

1366
00:46:13,889 --> 00:46:15,804
1 who's, like, I'm gonna go find out.

1367
00:46:16,362 --> 00:46:18,117
And so he does he does the research.

1368
00:46:18,276 --> 00:46:18,914
He comes back.

1369
00:46:20,604 --> 00:46:21,104
And,

1370
00:46:22,439 --> 00:46:24,114
yeah. So I have figured out how to

1371
00:46:24,114 --> 00:46:27,065
get my designer page up and a page

1372
00:46:27,065 --> 00:46:28,740
for my company and a page for my

1373
00:46:28,740 --> 00:46:30,016
game. And then all of a sudden,

1374
00:46:30,668 --> 00:46:33,289
doing that, got a little spike in attention.

1375
00:46:33,607 --> 00:46:35,116
Right, of, you know, someone did a, hey,

1376
00:46:35,275 --> 00:46:36,648
here's new stuff on

1377
00:46:37,498 --> 00:46:38,396
Geek, and

1378
00:46:38,943 --> 00:46:41,012
And so so I've been sort of figuring

1379
00:46:41,012 --> 00:46:44,591
that out. I I'm still not convinced that

1380
00:46:44,591 --> 00:46:45,489
the core

1381
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:47,496
Bg g audience

1382
00:46:48,034 --> 00:46:48,534
is

1383
00:46:49,072 --> 00:46:52,184
the target audience for pirates. Right? I I

1384
00:46:52,184 --> 00:46:54,834
think I think they fit into it I

1385
00:46:54,834 --> 00:46:56,613
think I get a lot more excitement

1386
00:46:57,791 --> 00:47:00,029
outside of people who... You know, their favorite

1387
00:47:00,029 --> 00:47:02,666
game is terra Mars or Brass Birmingham or

1388
00:47:02,666 --> 00:47:05,577
something like that. Right? The what I saw

1389
00:47:06,195 --> 00:47:09,388
at origins is the light in people's eyes

1390
00:47:09,388 --> 00:47:12,981
when they're like, I love afternoon tea. This

1391
00:47:12,981 --> 00:47:13,434
art

1392
00:47:13,793 --> 00:47:15,410
speaks to me. I love

1393
00:47:15,788 --> 00:47:17,782
pirates and tea. I love... You know, I

1394
00:47:17,782 --> 00:47:20,094
love our flag means death. Right? And, again,

1395
00:47:20,334 --> 00:47:21,530
I think lots of those people are on

1396
00:47:21,690 --> 00:47:23,420
Bg g, but I I think I don't

1397
00:47:23,699 --> 00:47:24,818
I think I don't really know who's on

1398
00:47:24,898 --> 00:47:26,896
Bg g. Right? I think that's... I've got

1399
00:47:26,896 --> 00:47:28,035
an impression

1400
00:47:28,494 --> 00:47:30,092
that it's people who like heavy eros.

1401
00:47:31,530 --> 00:47:32,030
And

1402
00:47:33,380 --> 00:47:35,130
and I don't know. I just... I think

1403
00:47:35,130 --> 00:47:35,766
that's what I think.

1404
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:37,220
So

1405
00:47:37,754 --> 00:47:40,139
so I'm I'm learning more about Bg g

1406
00:47:40,139 --> 00:47:40,855
or trying to.

1407
00:47:43,098 --> 00:47:44,853
And and just trying to, like,

1408
00:47:45,971 --> 00:47:48,603
get some momentum and figure out how to

1409
00:47:48,603 --> 00:47:50,929
ride that. Right? Because I The other thing

1410
00:47:50,929 --> 00:47:51,406
is like,

1411
00:47:52,121 --> 00:47:52,940
the timing

1412
00:47:53,474 --> 00:47:55,087
of knit circle being announced

1413
00:47:55,541 --> 00:47:57,449
and what I'm trying to do with pirates,

1414
00:47:57,768 --> 00:47:59,119
I'm trying to see if I can sort

1415
00:47:59,119 --> 00:47:59,517
of, like,

1416
00:48:00,407 --> 00:48:02,951
gust off them. Right? Make it such that,

1417
00:48:03,110 --> 00:48:03,269
like,

1418
00:48:04,064 --> 00:48:07,324
when I'm doing stuff around knit circle, right,

1419
00:48:07,483 --> 00:48:09,232
in and off moment, I can be like,

1420
00:48:09,391 --> 00:48:11,323
hey. I tell you about pirates or, like,

1421
00:48:11,642 --> 00:48:13,081
people came up to my booth or pirates.

1422
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:14,679
And I was like, well, if you're excited

1423
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:16,517
about this, you should check out knit circle.

1424
00:48:16,677 --> 00:48:17,955
Right? And I'm just trying to, like,

1425
00:48:18,767 --> 00:48:19,744
make it happen

1426
00:48:20,119 --> 00:48:22,369
together and hope that maybe I can get

1427
00:48:22,585 --> 00:48:24,256
a little bit of a signal boost

1428
00:48:24,733 --> 00:48:25,131
that way.

1429
00:48:26,103 --> 00:48:26,501
Because it's...

1430
00:48:27,538 --> 00:48:28,974
You know, there's there's a lot.

1431
00:48:29,771 --> 00:48:30,888
And, you know, I won't say that there's

1432
00:48:30,888 --> 00:48:33,440
a lot riding in this. Right? If this

1433
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,275
kickstarter fails if this game fails, like,

1434
00:48:36,086 --> 00:48:37,760
you know, it's not it's not the end

1435
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,251
of me in game design or game publishing

1436
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:40,866
or, you know,

1437
00:48:42,061 --> 00:48:44,314
as a person. Right? I I just

1438
00:48:45,102 --> 00:48:47,266
I'm trying to, like, capture and harness

1439
00:48:48,193 --> 00:48:49,961
what feels like forward momentum,

1440
00:48:50,570 --> 00:48:51,784
and and

1441
00:48:52,569 --> 00:48:55,046
and ride that through. Ride that wave. Right?

1442
00:48:55,446 --> 00:48:56,565
And maybe make it bigger.

1443
00:48:57,603 --> 00:48:58,103
So

1444
00:48:58,802 --> 00:49:00,501
so, yeah, just a lot of

1445
00:49:01,612 --> 00:49:02,112
marketing,

1446
00:49:03,045 --> 00:49:03,545
publicity,

1447
00:49:04,797 --> 00:49:06,948
figuring out how to talk to people, who

1448
00:49:06,948 --> 00:49:08,700
to talk to, how to get on their

1449
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:09,200
calendars,

1450
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:12,789
all sorts of things, which has a lot

1451
00:49:12,789 --> 00:49:14,570
mixed into it that I just

1452
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:17,909
have a hard time with. I I sometimes

1453
00:49:17,909 --> 00:49:18,469
have that, like,

1454
00:49:19,364 --> 00:49:22,085
inbox anxiety or, like, I see 10 new

1455
00:49:22,085 --> 00:49:23,525
emails in my inbox and I'm like, I

1456
00:49:23,525 --> 00:49:24,565
can't I can't look at these right now.

1457
00:49:24,724 --> 00:49:26,619
Like, it... Because I know it'll take me

1458
00:49:26,818 --> 00:49:28,570
2 hours to respond to them,

1459
00:49:29,525 --> 00:49:31,356
and and I had other things I wanted

1460
00:49:31,356 --> 00:49:33,107
to do. And then I feel bad you

1461
00:49:33,107 --> 00:49:34,594
know, later in the day that I didn't

1462
00:49:34,713 --> 00:49:36,459
respond to them immediately, and so then, you

1463
00:49:36,459 --> 00:49:37,753
know, it just sort of gets

1464
00:49:38,126 --> 00:49:40,664
really, really stressful. So trying to work through

1465
00:49:40,664 --> 00:49:41,220
my own,

1466
00:49:41,855 --> 00:49:43,141
fond stuff around that,

1467
00:49:44,572 --> 00:49:47,217
has been an eye opening experience, and I'm

1468
00:49:47,353 --> 00:49:49,658
I'm not there yet. I have people I

1469
00:49:49,658 --> 00:49:50,905
need to email back

1470
00:49:51,422 --> 00:49:53,256
but we're recording this on a Sunday, and

1471
00:49:53,256 --> 00:49:54,393
so I've told myself

1472
00:49:54,850 --> 00:49:57,639
Monday morning. First thing I'm gonna do is

1473
00:49:57,639 --> 00:49:58,755
send a bunch of these emails.

1474
00:49:59,730 --> 00:50:01,329
And it's gonna happen, and I'm gonna get

1475
00:50:01,329 --> 00:50:01,650
it done,

1476
00:50:02,849 --> 00:50:04,929
and that's just what I need to do

1477
00:50:05,250 --> 00:50:07,750
to make this work. So, yeah, I've been

1478
00:50:08,621 --> 00:50:10,532
I think I'm getting... I think I'm making

1479
00:50:10,532 --> 00:50:14,355
progress on the the marketing and brand building

1480
00:50:14,355 --> 00:50:14,594
journey.

1481
00:50:15,868 --> 00:50:16,368
It's

1482
00:50:16,918 --> 00:50:19,059
a little bit slower than I expected,

1483
00:50:19,773 --> 00:50:21,543
and some of that is my own

1484
00:50:22,153 --> 00:50:22,550
slowness.

1485
00:50:24,312 --> 00:50:25,983
And so that's again, just a thing I'm

1486
00:50:25,983 --> 00:50:28,609
sort of filing away that I'm learning about

1487
00:50:28,609 --> 00:50:31,155
myself, and I'm learning about the industry and

1488
00:50:31,155 --> 00:50:33,119
just sort of how do I estimate enough

1489
00:50:33,319 --> 00:50:33,819
time

1490
00:50:34,277 --> 00:50:36,113
to make all these things work. Right?

1491
00:50:37,311 --> 00:50:40,025
But, yeah, It feels it feels positive, and

1492
00:50:40,025 --> 00:50:42,041
it feels like I haven't lost momentum.

1493
00:50:42,594 --> 00:50:44,579
And I'm slowly gaining, And I think the

1494
00:50:44,579 --> 00:50:46,485
thing is just gonna be figuring out what

1495
00:50:46,485 --> 00:50:48,074
the timing on that wave really looks like.

1496
00:50:48,233 --> 00:50:49,583
Right? Is this a wave I can ride

1497
00:50:49,583 --> 00:50:51,012
to September? Do I need to take it

1498
00:50:51,012 --> 00:50:53,252
to October? Is it really better for Next

1499
00:50:53,252 --> 00:50:54,047
may. Right?

1500
00:50:54,922 --> 00:50:55,422
What

1501
00:50:56,114 --> 00:50:57,886
what is the right sort of

1502
00:50:58,579 --> 00:51:00,566
cadence and timing and and sort of things

1503
00:51:00,566 --> 00:51:01,304
on this

1504
00:51:01,934 --> 00:51:02,893
this journey that I'm on.

1505
00:51:04,171 --> 00:51:04,411
So...

1506
00:51:06,248 --> 00:51:06,488
Yeah.

1507
00:51:07,607 --> 00:51:08,485
I think you're probably right.

1508
00:51:09,619 --> 00:51:11,792
Having been at the booth the whole week

1509
00:51:12,965 --> 00:51:14,638
and seeing the people come up and and

1510
00:51:14,638 --> 00:51:16,072
get the demo and things like that. You

1511
00:51:16,072 --> 00:51:17,586
know, it was interesting. The 1 the 1

1512
00:51:17,586 --> 00:51:18,702
lady that came up with her daughter,

1513
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:22,218
the daughter kinda dragged her over, and

1514
00:51:23,411 --> 00:51:24,923
it was interesting because I think you even

1515
00:51:24,923 --> 00:51:25,321
asked her.

1516
00:51:26,276 --> 00:51:27,231
I think later in the week you were

1517
00:51:27,231 --> 00:51:28,026
asking people, like,

1518
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,039
little bit more, like, what are you like

1519
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:31,239
What are you looking for in a kickstarter?

1520
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:32,760
Or what gets you excited? And just trying

1521
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,440
to do that market research, which was smart.

1522
00:51:35,079 --> 00:51:35,579
And

1523
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:37,579
like, her answer was

1524
00:51:38,371 --> 00:51:40,994
cool art. Yeah. Right. And I think that's

1525
00:51:40,994 --> 00:51:43,617
that's generally not the the the Bg crowd

1526
00:51:43,617 --> 00:51:45,525
by and large. Right? Like, the people who

1527
00:51:45,525 --> 00:51:46,637
are going to forums and, like,

1528
00:51:47,289 --> 00:51:49,277
talking about games being broken or good or

1529
00:51:49,277 --> 00:51:49,993
bad or whatever.

1530
00:51:50,471 --> 00:51:52,141
And so I think that there is a

1531
00:51:52,141 --> 00:51:53,414
certain percentage of people who,

1532
00:51:54,050 --> 00:51:55,823
maybe they've heard a board game geek, but

1533
00:51:56,693 --> 00:51:58,532
they're most checking out the cool stuff, the

1534
00:51:58,532 --> 00:52:00,769
interesting, pretty stuff on kickstarter.

1535
00:52:01,728 --> 00:52:03,246
And so, like, to me, like Bg g

1536
00:52:03,246 --> 00:52:03,566
ads,

1537
00:52:04,618 --> 00:52:06,917
seem like, less productive use of your money

1538
00:52:06,917 --> 00:52:08,581
than say something like Facebook ads. Right? Like,

1539
00:52:08,661 --> 00:52:09,216
you said, like,

1540
00:52:10,167 --> 00:52:11,832
some people were, like, super into the pirates.

1541
00:52:12,323 --> 00:52:12,561
Stuff.

1542
00:52:13,512 --> 00:52:14,860
But I think you had just as many

1543
00:52:14,860 --> 00:52:15,916
people stop by

1544
00:52:16,446 --> 00:52:17,422
who, like, paused

1545
00:52:18,032 --> 00:52:20,587
specifically because, like, it said, tea. And they're

1546
00:52:20,587 --> 00:52:21,382
like, I love tea.

1547
00:52:22,337 --> 00:52:24,325
Even though you don't really need that, like,

1548
00:52:24,564 --> 00:52:26,393
eat or drink or really do anything that...

1549
00:52:27,204 --> 00:52:29,517
You know, it's super into, like, the full

1550
00:52:29,517 --> 00:52:30,953
tea, like, thing. Right? It wasn't like a

1551
00:52:30,953 --> 00:52:32,468
cup of tea sitting there. Right? Yeah.

1552
00:52:33,425 --> 00:52:34,462
But people came over,

1553
00:52:35,180 --> 00:52:37,749
because, like, it resonated with a thing that

1554
00:52:37,749 --> 00:52:39,347
that they care about. Right? And so I

1555
00:52:39,347 --> 00:52:40,086
think that that's

1556
00:52:40,465 --> 00:52:42,223
that's smart. And then then definitely something that,

1557
00:52:42,303 --> 00:52:43,901
like, I think you're you're focusing on, I

1558
00:52:43,901 --> 00:52:44,940
think that that's great. Right? Like,

1559
00:52:46,070 --> 00:52:47,903
kinda meeting people where they are. Right? Not

1560
00:52:47,903 --> 00:52:48,381
assuming that,

1561
00:52:49,577 --> 00:52:51,489
the certain percentage of people who like Tea

1562
00:52:51,489 --> 00:52:52,547
will eventually

1563
00:52:53,016 --> 00:52:54,762
find your game, but, like, trying to be

1564
00:52:54,762 --> 00:52:55,262
more

1565
00:52:55,953 --> 00:52:57,699
intentional with targeting them in the first place.

1566
00:52:57,937 --> 00:52:58,437
So

1567
00:52:59,365 --> 00:53:01,032
III would agree with you that, like,

1568
00:53:01,842 --> 00:53:04,336
it seems much more that those other groups,

1569
00:53:05,111 --> 00:53:07,822
are your target audience, and the people who

1570
00:53:07,822 --> 00:53:08,960
will will be

1571
00:53:10,227 --> 00:53:11,974
jazz to get your game as opposed to,

1572
00:53:12,053 --> 00:53:12,927
like, you know?

1573
00:53:14,356 --> 00:53:16,341
Yeah. And and I think that sort of

1574
00:53:16,341 --> 00:53:18,088
pulls 2 threads for me. Right? So 1

1575
00:53:18,088 --> 00:53:19,144
is I sort of

1576
00:53:20,094 --> 00:53:21,313
ended up pitching

1577
00:53:21,692 --> 00:53:23,290
pirates during un pub,

1578
00:53:24,169 --> 00:53:26,167
just, like, there was a publisher who had

1579
00:53:26,167 --> 00:53:27,526
sort of expressed interest And Was like, well,

1580
00:53:27,606 --> 00:53:28,485
if you wanna see it. Right?

1581
00:53:29,617 --> 00:53:31,532
And, you know, the conversation that we had

1582
00:53:31,532 --> 00:53:33,628
there was they just weren't sure

1583
00:53:34,244 --> 00:53:35,760
how to find those people.

1584
00:53:36,571 --> 00:53:38,318
Right, of how do you find people who

1585
00:53:38,318 --> 00:53:40,859
are into pirates and like gateway games? How

1586
00:53:40,859 --> 00:53:42,630
do you find people that are into tea

1587
00:53:42,844 --> 00:53:44,353
and like gateway games and how do find

1588
00:53:44,353 --> 00:53:46,117
people that are into both? And our sort

1589
00:53:46,117 --> 00:53:47,949
of gateway games. Right? And that's just not

1590
00:53:47,949 --> 00:53:48,449
what

1591
00:53:48,984 --> 00:53:50,997
their company's marketing apparatus

1592
00:53:51,373 --> 00:53:52,170
was set up for.

1593
00:53:53,683 --> 00:53:54,183
So

1594
00:53:54,892 --> 00:53:57,040
that I think was, you know, useful knowledge.

1595
00:53:57,359 --> 00:53:59,109
I I think the other piece was that

1596
00:53:59,268 --> 00:54:00,325
I got out of origins

1597
00:54:01,257 --> 00:54:03,189
was the question of who

1598
00:54:04,059 --> 00:54:05,519
who buys the games

1599
00:54:06,059 --> 00:54:08,559
in your house and how does that process

1600
00:54:08,780 --> 00:54:11,739
work? Right? Because by the end of origins,

1601
00:54:12,059 --> 00:54:13,119
I had people

1602
00:54:13,594 --> 00:54:16,804
coming back and bringing someone else. Right? Bringing

1603
00:54:17,181 --> 00:54:21,087
their husband, bringing their game group. Right? Bringing

1604
00:54:21,087 --> 00:54:21,587
people

1605
00:54:22,059 --> 00:54:23,973
that they wanted to make sure that those

1606
00:54:23,973 --> 00:54:25,510
people were tracking the game

1607
00:54:25,887 --> 00:54:27,882
so that it could actually... You know, so

1608
00:54:27,882 --> 00:54:29,237
that they could remember to back it, you

1609
00:54:29,237 --> 00:54:30,992
know, all of these things, and so they

1610
00:54:30,992 --> 00:54:33,079
could sort of vote for, like, this is

1611
00:54:33,079 --> 00:54:35,071
a game we wanna have in our house

1612
00:54:35,071 --> 00:54:36,585
on our table, you know, those sorts of

1613
00:54:36,585 --> 00:54:36,824
things.

1614
00:54:38,018 --> 00:54:38,757
And it

1615
00:54:39,148 --> 00:54:41,607
it kind of reminded me of, I think

1616
00:54:41,766 --> 00:54:42,876
I think I've told you about this Ro,

1617
00:54:43,035 --> 00:54:45,097
but It kinda reminded me about there's a

1618
00:54:45,097 --> 00:54:45,914
group of

1619
00:54:46,385 --> 00:54:48,545
war hammer folks that I know here in

1620
00:54:48,625 --> 00:54:49,125
Boston

1621
00:54:49,664 --> 00:54:51,664
that, you know, 2 years ago at Christmas,

1622
00:54:52,224 --> 00:54:54,360
every single guy from the War hammer group

1623
00:54:54,717 --> 00:54:56,465
bought their spouse wings fan.

1624
00:54:57,578 --> 00:54:59,802
Because they were, like, it's a game that

1625
00:54:59,882 --> 00:55:00,541
I think

1626
00:55:00,914 --> 00:55:03,004
would be of interest to my spouse

1627
00:55:03,315 --> 00:55:04,994
based on things that they like. They like

1628
00:55:04,994 --> 00:55:06,594
birds and they like flowers and they like,

1629
00:55:06,835 --> 00:55:07,894
and they don't like

1630
00:55:08,434 --> 00:55:09,335
brass Birmingham.

1631
00:55:10,114 --> 00:55:11,394
Right, or whatever.

1632
00:55:12,530 --> 00:55:15,569
And so I'm I'm seeing a little bit

1633
00:55:15,569 --> 00:55:17,889
of that dynamic because I also had a

1634
00:55:17,889 --> 00:55:19,569
bunch of people who walked up and said,

1635
00:55:20,224 --> 00:55:23,340
my sister loves tea, my wife loves pirates,

1636
00:55:23,580 --> 00:55:26,856
my whatever, whatever. Right? They were they were

1637
00:55:26,856 --> 00:55:28,215
seeing it as a theme,

1638
00:55:28,708 --> 00:55:30,775
that had interest in someone that they cared

1639
00:55:30,775 --> 00:55:31,013
about.

1640
00:55:32,046 --> 00:55:33,556
And and I think that there's lots of

1641
00:55:33,556 --> 00:55:35,407
people who want to play games

1642
00:55:35,860 --> 00:55:37,314
with the people in their life

1643
00:55:37,862 --> 00:55:40,567
and they can't always interest them in terra

1644
00:55:40,567 --> 00:55:43,112
forming Mars. Right? And and I don't mean

1645
00:55:43,112 --> 00:55:45,498
to align terra forming Mars or Brass Birmingham.

1646
00:55:45,657 --> 00:55:48,067
Right? Wonderful and great games,

1647
00:55:49,904 --> 00:55:52,141
but not always what everyone is looking for.

1648
00:55:52,301 --> 00:55:53,041
And so

1649
00:55:53,514 --> 00:55:55,899
So I don't know. III don't have the

1650
00:55:55,899 --> 00:55:56,399
full

1651
00:55:57,171 --> 00:55:58,840
package, you know, what am I gonna do

1652
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,986
with that insight, but I do feel like

1653
00:56:00,986 --> 00:56:01,781
there's these little,

1654
00:56:03,465 --> 00:56:06,327
bubbles per in my mind that I think

1655
00:56:06,485 --> 00:56:08,416
I'm gonna be able to use to

1656
00:56:08,790 --> 00:56:11,515
to figure out my advertising strategy and where

1657
00:56:12,143 --> 00:56:13,737
what ads I'm putting up and wear and,

1658
00:56:13,817 --> 00:56:16,288
like, photos shoot. Right? I probably need to

1659
00:56:16,288 --> 00:56:18,222
take some pictures of my game

1660
00:56:18,678 --> 00:56:19,475
with a t set.

1661
00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:22,289
Right? With the 3 tiered thing with some

1662
00:56:22,289 --> 00:56:23,429
cakes and some

1663
00:56:23,730 --> 00:56:25,650
tea, and, you know, a nice tea pot

1664
00:56:25,650 --> 00:56:27,682
and stuff like that, which is

1665
00:56:28,213 --> 00:56:30,674
probably not on most people's, like, when I

1666
00:56:30,674 --> 00:56:33,055
take my publicity photos, make sure I have

1667
00:56:33,055 --> 00:56:34,087
my fine China setup.

1668
00:56:35,292 --> 00:56:37,435
So, you know, that kind of thing, and

1669
00:56:37,435 --> 00:56:39,181
and I came up with an idea with

1670
00:56:39,181 --> 00:56:40,134
a friend of, like,

1671
00:56:40,848 --> 00:56:41,348
having

1672
00:56:42,133 --> 00:56:44,194
you know, having some, like, video snippets of

1673
00:56:44,194 --> 00:56:45,224
people playing, but like,

1674
00:56:45,938 --> 00:56:48,237
dressed as pirates. Right? And, like, having a

1675
00:56:48,237 --> 00:56:49,268
grand old time, like,

1676
00:56:49,919 --> 00:56:52,076
doing a little bit of, like, y. I

1677
00:56:52,076 --> 00:56:54,393
serve you my, you know, H Eat. Right?

1678
00:56:54,633 --> 00:56:56,331
Whatever it is. So

1679
00:56:57,364 --> 00:56:59,682
I I think there's some things there as

1680
00:56:59,682 --> 00:57:01,840
opposed to just, like, look, it's a family

1681
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,237
playing a board game. Right? Look, it's it's

1682
00:57:04,237 --> 00:57:06,155
people who are cool and in their twenties

1683
00:57:06,155 --> 00:57:08,268
and thirties. Playing a board game. Right? It's

1684
00:57:08,647 --> 00:57:11,123
it's, like, speak to those people and catch

1685
00:57:11,123 --> 00:57:12,103
their attention

1686
00:57:12,961 --> 00:57:13,600
with these ads.

1687
00:57:14,172 --> 00:57:14,672
So

1688
00:57:15,126 --> 00:57:17,113
I think I'm learning something. That's my takeaway.

1689
00:57:17,351 --> 00:57:18,782
I think I've learned something. I don't know

1690
00:57:18,782 --> 00:57:20,371
what I learned, but I think I learned

1691
00:57:20,371 --> 00:57:20,530
it.

1692
00:57:23,177 --> 00:57:25,255
Well, yeah. I agree with you. I think

1693
00:57:25,255 --> 00:57:27,013
part of it is, like, even if once

1694
00:57:27,013 --> 00:57:28,131
you know it, like, how can you leverage

1695
00:57:28,131 --> 00:57:30,144
it? I think that's the key harder part.

1696
00:57:30,385 --> 00:57:31,204
Right? So

1697
00:57:31,505 --> 00:57:33,184
this something else we talked about in, like,

1698
00:57:33,744 --> 00:57:35,844
not that this system, like, very insight. But

1699
00:57:35,905 --> 00:57:37,344
1 thing that I that I said, like,

1700
00:57:37,424 --> 00:57:38,864
that I think would be cool in in

1701
00:57:38,864 --> 00:57:40,555
the game, like, yours is, like, if you

1702
00:57:40,555 --> 00:57:41,432
had a small little, like,

1703
00:57:42,548 --> 00:57:44,860
recipe book of, like, how to make a

1704
00:57:44,860 --> 00:57:47,570
water sandwich and cut it correctly and, like,

1705
00:57:47,730 --> 00:57:49,336
what tea it goes with or whatever. And,

1706
00:57:49,495 --> 00:57:51,325
like... So when you're sitting down to play,

1707
00:57:51,484 --> 00:57:52,757
you can kinda make it more of, like,

1708
00:57:52,836 --> 00:57:53,393
an, you know,

1709
00:57:54,347 --> 00:57:56,597
like, an experience, not just like, you're playing

1710
00:57:56,597 --> 00:57:58,195
the game or whatever. Right? And, like, that's

1711
00:57:58,195 --> 00:57:59,074
the kind of thing you could put on

1712
00:57:59,074 --> 00:58:01,151
your blog or in your newsletter, whatever. Like,

1713
00:58:01,630 --> 00:58:03,959
you know, try this afternoon tea or whatever

1714
00:58:03,959 --> 00:58:05,953
with your kids or your your friend or

1715
00:58:05,953 --> 00:58:07,389
whatever else because it doesn't remind me too.

1716
00:58:07,628 --> 00:58:09,143
Like, 1 thing that, like,

1717
00:58:10,260 --> 00:58:12,036
I'm talking to someone else about

1718
00:58:12,670 --> 00:58:14,029
with kind of the idea for, like, barn

1719
00:58:14,029 --> 00:58:15,789
quilt. Right? And so this is kinda also

1720
00:58:15,789 --> 00:58:17,389
ties into crust stitch and or

1721
00:58:19,309 --> 00:58:20,589
knit circle at some level 2.

1722
00:58:21,405 --> 00:58:22,625
It's like, sometimes,

1723
00:58:23,085 --> 00:58:24,844
like you said, well my aunt likes t.

1724
00:58:25,805 --> 00:58:27,405
And so is this a game that I

1725
00:58:27,405 --> 00:58:28,605
could play with my aunt or my grandma

1726
00:58:28,605 --> 00:58:29,405
or something like that?

1727
00:58:30,139 --> 00:58:32,391
But, like, could you get your game into,

1728
00:58:33,244 --> 00:58:33,882
a t shop?

1729
00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:36,213
Or could you get knit circle

1730
00:58:36,987 --> 00:58:37,487
or

1731
00:58:38,023 --> 00:58:40,113
cross stitch? Or, like, in in my case

1732
00:58:40,113 --> 00:58:40,932
bar quilt

1733
00:58:41,471 --> 00:58:43,549
into a Michaels. Right? Because the thing is,

1734
00:58:43,629 --> 00:58:46,106
like, your aunt or your grandma... They already

1735
00:58:46,106 --> 00:58:48,594
have all the quilt stuff they're ever gonna

1736
00:58:48,594 --> 00:58:50,588
need all the prostate stuff that they're ever

1737
00:58:50,588 --> 00:58:52,264
gonna need. Like... So you can just buy

1738
00:58:52,264 --> 00:58:54,257
a Michael's gift card. Or if you walk

1739
00:58:54,257 --> 00:58:55,773
in there and you're like, well, here's this

1740
00:58:55,773 --> 00:58:58,263
game for, like, that's family weight. It's 30

1741
00:58:58,263 --> 00:59:00,500
or 40 bucks. Like, it's something that they

1742
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:01,059
don't have.

1743
00:59:02,178 --> 00:59:04,516
Right? And so, like, it's meeting that customer

1744
00:59:05,467 --> 00:59:07,301
where they are or the people that they

1745
00:59:07,301 --> 00:59:09,135
know are. Right? And so, like, it's a

1746
00:59:09,135 --> 00:59:09,852
great avenue.

1747
00:59:10,490 --> 00:59:12,403
And I think that's a great insight. The

1748
00:59:12,403 --> 00:59:14,094
harder part is, like, how do you get

1749
00:59:14,094 --> 00:59:15,931
a hold of the buyer at Michael's to

1750
00:59:15,931 --> 00:59:17,289
get that game pulled through it. Right?

1751
00:59:18,248 --> 00:59:19,527
But I think that there is something to

1752
00:59:19,527 --> 00:59:20,246
be set for that. Like,

1753
00:59:21,219 --> 00:59:23,217
a game in the quilt section of a

1754
00:59:23,377 --> 00:59:25,396
Michaels around Christmas time

1755
00:59:25,934 --> 00:59:27,773
doesn't matter... I mean, honestly, look, you you

1756
00:59:27,773 --> 00:59:29,451
could put nothing in the box, and you're

1757
00:59:29,451 --> 00:59:30,271
gonna sell

1758
00:59:30,903 --> 00:59:32,733
you know, because some number of thousands of

1759
00:59:32,733 --> 00:59:34,403
copies. Right? Just because people are looking for

1760
00:59:34,403 --> 00:59:37,506
something that's different and related to something somebody

1761
00:59:37,506 --> 00:59:39,097
likes. Right? They're trying to be thoughtful.

1762
00:59:39,669 --> 00:59:41,811
But they don't have time and, like, they

1763
00:59:41,811 --> 00:59:44,271
can't buy you something actually use in your

1764
00:59:44,271 --> 00:59:47,366
quilt because, like, people are very, very specific

1765
00:59:47,366 --> 00:59:49,375
about the kind of things they use and

1766
00:59:49,375 --> 00:59:51,295
the thread they use and the needles, the

1767
00:59:51,295 --> 00:59:53,135
leg it's it's gonna be a thing. Right?

1768
00:59:54,094 --> 00:59:55,535
And you're again getting the wrong thing they're

1769
00:59:55,535 --> 00:59:56,255
just gonna return it.

1770
00:59:56,907 --> 00:59:58,177
Right. But you can get them something that

1771
00:59:58,177 --> 00:59:59,685
shows you, appreciate their interest,

1772
01:00:00,637 --> 01:00:02,304
and it's gonna be different than anything they've

1773
01:00:02,304 --> 01:00:03,257
ever gotten. So, like,

1774
01:00:04,209 --> 01:00:05,423
it's a great insight

1775
01:00:05,812 --> 01:00:07,319
Yeah. I don't have a solution how to

1776
01:00:07,319 --> 01:00:09,065
get into that spot either, but, like, I

1777
01:00:09,065 --> 01:00:09,724
think it's

1778
01:00:10,335 --> 01:00:11,683
it's a good good thing to do if

1779
01:00:11,683 --> 01:00:13,525
you could get there. Right? Yeah. And I

1780
01:00:13,525 --> 01:00:15,352
think even... I mean, I'm not that you

1781
01:00:15,352 --> 01:00:17,100
need convincing on this, But I think even

1782
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:19,642
more so. Right, It's a thing that shows

1783
01:00:19,642 --> 01:00:22,204
you understand and appreciate their interest. And that

1784
01:00:22,204 --> 01:00:25,160
you can do together with them. Right? Because

1785
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,557
it's really hard unless you are a quilt

1786
01:00:27,557 --> 01:00:29,635
or an it just sit around do that.

1787
01:00:29,968 --> 01:00:32,591
With your aunt with grandma, whatever, but like,

1788
01:00:33,068 --> 01:00:35,612
being able... I mean, how thoughtful is that

1789
01:00:35,612 --> 01:00:38,314
kid who's like, you like quilt, I like

1790
01:00:38,314 --> 01:00:38,814
games

1791
01:00:39,362 --> 01:00:42,142
let's quilt game together. Right? And that's like,

1792
01:00:42,857 --> 01:00:44,843
I feel like that's every grandparents like dream.

1793
01:00:45,161 --> 01:00:45,320
Right?

1794
01:00:46,591 --> 01:00:47,226
So... Yeah.

1795
01:00:48,432 --> 01:00:49,542
They're gonna talk about that for 20 years.

1796
01:00:49,701 --> 01:00:50,970
Right? And just like the same thing like

1797
01:00:50,970 --> 01:00:52,874
with it... With, like, with your game, like,

1798
01:00:52,953 --> 01:00:53,588
if it... Like,

1799
01:00:55,113 --> 01:00:57,585
person likes tea. Like, hey. I I... You're

1800
01:00:57,585 --> 01:01:00,079
bringing the game over and some, like water

1801
01:01:00,138 --> 01:01:01,574
or whatever. And, like, we're gonna make the

1802
01:01:01,574 --> 01:01:03,248
sandwiches and we're gonna have tea, and we're

1803
01:01:03,248 --> 01:01:04,579
gonna play this game. Right? And it's

1804
01:01:05,257 --> 01:01:07,509
it's a different kind of experience. And,

1805
01:01:08,203 --> 01:01:09,717
yeah. It's tough It's tough. If you can

1806
01:01:09,717 --> 01:01:11,230
meet people where they are. Right? That's just,

1807
01:01:11,309 --> 01:01:12,982
like a holy grail. Right? Yeah.

1808
01:01:13,634 --> 01:01:15,147
Yeah. No. I need to do... I definitely

1809
01:01:15,147 --> 01:01:16,740
gonna do the recipe thing on my website,

1810
01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:18,891
but I think having a little book. Maybe

1811
01:01:18,891 --> 01:01:20,723
this could be a stretch goal that if

1812
01:01:20,723 --> 01:01:23,765
we reach some amount, then the recipes can

1813
01:01:23,765 --> 01:01:25,916
go book in the in the thing.

1814
01:01:26,632 --> 01:01:27,907
Otherwise, you have to go to the website.

1815
01:01:29,182 --> 01:01:29,841
It's more.

1816
01:01:30,536 --> 01:01:31,811
It cost money because it's big.

1817
01:01:33,025 --> 01:01:34,784
It it's stretch when you gotta do the,

1818
01:01:34,945 --> 01:01:35,105
like,

1819
01:01:36,304 --> 01:01:37,744
the sound that the cold does with the...

1820
01:01:38,465 --> 01:01:38,545
Okay.

1821
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:42,067
Is that? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's

1822
01:01:42,067 --> 01:01:44,135
it. There's some stuff up appear top that

1823
01:01:44,215 --> 01:01:45,409
I feel like if I pressed it, I'd

1824
01:01:45,409 --> 01:01:47,575
get noises, but I shouldn't do that. So

1825
01:01:47,575 --> 01:01:48,075
any

1826
01:01:48,454 --> 01:01:49,095
ahead, Ro.

1827
01:01:49,974 --> 01:01:51,815
Oh, no. No. I think that's all great.

1828
01:01:52,695 --> 01:01:53,195
So

1829
01:01:55,030 --> 01:01:56,710
I think maybe we should, like, get to

1830
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:57,670
the point of what we're talking about what

1831
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:58,550
we're gonna do the rest of the year.

1832
01:01:58,869 --> 01:01:59,989
Yeah. Let's do it.

1833
01:02:01,430 --> 01:02:02,950
So I don't think we need to, like,

1834
01:02:03,364 --> 01:02:04,479
go in as much details as we did

1835
01:02:04,479 --> 01:02:05,195
at the beginning of the year,

1836
01:02:06,311 --> 01:02:08,461
listeners are getting tired. Agree. And then just

1837
01:02:08,461 --> 01:02:09,735
sort us recap and talk about all of

1838
01:02:09,735 --> 01:02:11,328
the same stuff that we're gonna do already.

1839
01:02:11,567 --> 01:02:12,067
So

1840
01:02:12,380 --> 01:02:14,140
I think for me, mine haven't totally changed.

1841
01:02:15,500 --> 01:02:16,619
I'm still gonna try to pitch more.

1842
01:02:17,739 --> 01:02:19,980
I'm gonna try to do better at cold

1843
01:02:19,980 --> 01:02:20,300
emailing.

1844
01:02:21,111 --> 01:02:23,811
It's just frustrating when, like, you craft something

1845
01:02:23,811 --> 01:02:24,922
and you have a decent cell sheet, and

1846
01:02:24,922 --> 01:02:25,637
you think it's like,

1847
01:02:27,066 --> 01:02:28,574
just waiting and hear somebody, like, not interested

1848
01:02:28,574 --> 01:02:30,257
or whatever and you just get, like, no

1849
01:02:30,257 --> 01:02:32,323
response at all. It's kind of annoying. So

1850
01:02:32,403 --> 01:02:33,992
Gonna try to do that. I think the

1851
01:02:33,992 --> 01:02:35,446
thing with the art and

1852
01:02:36,615 --> 01:02:38,443
culture game stuff that'll happen as it happened.

1853
01:02:38,603 --> 01:02:39,891
So not really a major.

1854
01:02:41,086 --> 01:02:43,077
Thing it could become a priority for me,

1855
01:02:43,237 --> 01:02:44,352
but we'll see how that pans out.

1856
01:02:45,148 --> 01:02:46,981
I think for my 2 player line, which

1857
01:02:46,981 --> 01:02:48,175
is my last goal for this year.

1858
01:02:49,706 --> 01:02:51,141
I already said, like, I think selling at

1859
01:02:51,141 --> 01:02:52,976
a convention is by myself is probably not

1860
01:02:52,976 --> 01:02:53,454
in the cards.

1861
01:02:54,651 --> 01:02:55,768
I think there's 1 other thing that I'm

1862
01:02:55,768 --> 01:02:57,442
gonna try to do here before Gen con,

1863
01:02:57,602 --> 01:02:58,454
and that is

1864
01:03:00,087 --> 01:03:02,635
initially, I had... The reason I decided to

1865
01:03:02,635 --> 01:03:04,409
try to do this line myself is because

1866
01:03:04,547 --> 01:03:05,980
historically, you talked to a publisher about 2

1867
01:03:05,980 --> 01:03:08,066
player games and they they're like, Nobody buys

1868
01:03:08,066 --> 01:03:09,739
2 player games. And I'm like, okay. Well,

1869
01:03:09,898 --> 01:03:11,195
it's not really true, but

1870
01:03:12,368 --> 01:03:14,121
pandemic has shown us that. But generally,

1871
01:03:14,694 --> 01:03:16,048
a lot of publishers shut it down right

1872
01:03:16,048 --> 01:03:18,439
away. Right? There's a couple that have fairly

1873
01:03:18,439 --> 01:03:20,431
decent amount of that, like, Cosmos and and

1874
01:03:20,431 --> 01:03:23,140
others, but, like, not many publishers are in

1875
01:03:23,140 --> 01:03:23,777
in that space.

1876
01:03:24,908 --> 01:03:25,408
But

1877
01:03:26,664 --> 01:03:28,122
and this is my con

1878
01:03:28,819 --> 01:03:30,894
and prediction. But now the sky team is

1879
01:03:30,894 --> 01:03:32,650
gonna win the spiel, I don't think it's

1880
01:03:32,650 --> 01:03:35,057
close. I think it's a slam dunk. Mh.

1881
01:03:37,528 --> 01:03:39,999
Probably like to follow trends. And so I'm

1882
01:03:39,999 --> 01:03:42,165
hoping to ride the wave that's gonna be

1883
01:03:42,165 --> 01:03:45,109
in my email proposition 2 the publishers of,

1884
01:03:45,189 --> 01:03:45,666
like, hey,

1885
01:03:46,382 --> 01:03:47,815
now the guy team is gonna win the

1886
01:03:47,815 --> 01:03:48,133
spiel,

1887
01:03:49,105 --> 01:03:50,224
when you like to get ahead of the

1888
01:03:50,224 --> 01:03:51,824
market, I have a whole line of 2

1889
01:03:51,824 --> 01:03:53,744
player games that are already done, they're completely

1890
01:03:53,744 --> 01:03:55,344
developed. They're ready to go, you just need

1891
01:03:55,344 --> 01:03:57,119
have to make art and I have, like,

1892
01:03:57,518 --> 01:03:58,796
so most I haven't talked about with this

1893
01:03:58,796 --> 01:04:01,273
line that that product placement, like, a lot

1894
01:04:01,273 --> 01:04:02,472
of things have been thought through pretty well,

1895
01:04:02,632 --> 01:04:02,871
I think.

1896
01:04:04,801 --> 01:04:06,570
So, yeah. I think I'm gonna also

1897
01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:09,637
do a pitch. I think there's a moment

1898
01:04:09,637 --> 01:04:11,223
in time here that maybe I can leverage.

1899
01:04:12,269 --> 01:04:13,787
And that I can just be a designer,

1900
01:04:13,947 --> 01:04:16,344
not a publisher too, but we'll see. So

1901
01:04:16,423 --> 01:04:17,882
I think that's a a slight

1902
01:04:20,189 --> 01:04:22,491
experiment I'm going to take, reach out to

1903
01:04:22,491 --> 01:04:24,238
a couple publishers that I think might be

1904
01:04:24,238 --> 01:04:24,873
slightly more.

1905
01:04:29,650 --> 01:04:31,235
Accepting of the idea.

1906
01:04:32,344 --> 01:04:32,844
And

1907
01:04:33,295 --> 01:04:34,801
especially since I have, like, like I said,

1908
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:35,856
several that are

1909
01:04:36,324 --> 01:04:37,680
that are done, Like, they don't really need

1910
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:38,318
any development,

1911
01:04:39,197 --> 01:04:41,271
because I've been they've been around for 3

1912
01:04:41,271 --> 01:04:41,830
or 4 years.

1913
01:04:44,318 --> 01:04:46,234
Yeah. So we'll see. So that... That's a

1914
01:04:46,234 --> 01:04:48,629
slight twist on my 2 player line. If

1915
01:04:48,629 --> 01:04:49,587
that goes poorly.

1916
01:04:51,103 --> 01:04:52,300
Honestly, I might just

1917
01:04:53,034 --> 01:04:55,034
focus on getting stuff ready for packs unplugged,

1918
01:04:55,195 --> 01:04:56,635
then not really do anything else with this

1919
01:04:56,635 --> 01:04:57,195
line this year,

1920
01:04:58,474 --> 01:04:59,675
and then see maybe at the end of

1921
01:04:59,675 --> 01:05:01,607
the year if I wanna kind of, like,

1922
01:05:02,403 --> 01:05:03,997
decide if I really wanna go forward because

1923
01:05:04,157 --> 01:05:05,989
I think that's a big thing. Right? Mh.

1924
01:05:06,228 --> 01:05:07,503
All the money in art and all the

1925
01:05:07,503 --> 01:05:10,301
other stuff, like, is at the time and

1926
01:05:10,301 --> 01:05:11,968
and money investment I wanna make for this

1927
01:05:11,968 --> 01:05:12,206
line,

1928
01:05:13,318 --> 01:05:15,779
given that I'm mostly at this point, thinking

1929
01:05:15,779 --> 01:05:17,469
the only way to make it financially

1930
01:05:18,018 --> 01:05:18,656
pay for itself,

1931
01:05:20,092 --> 01:05:20,969
would be kick starting.

1932
01:05:21,607 --> 01:05:21,846
So...

1933
01:05:22,643 --> 01:05:23,760
Yeah. That's my

1934
01:05:24,318 --> 01:05:26,311
20 24 second half goals.

1935
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:27,519
Okay.

1936
01:05:28,232 --> 01:05:29,445
So mine are

1937
01:05:30,451 --> 01:05:33,065
along the same lines. So I I think

1938
01:05:33,144 --> 01:05:35,862
I've got unplugged in my sights as, like,

1939
01:05:36,101 --> 01:05:38,012
I'd love to have a few new games

1940
01:05:38,012 --> 01:05:38,490
by then,

1941
01:05:39,367 --> 01:05:41,677
that I felt like they're not Hawk games.

1942
01:05:41,916 --> 01:05:43,212
They're games I wanna pitch

1943
01:05:44,162 --> 01:05:46,476
so that's that's a piece I'm gonna be

1944
01:05:46,476 --> 01:05:47,035
working on.

1945
01:05:48,311 --> 01:05:50,386
I think this... I am on this train

1946
01:05:50,386 --> 01:05:52,719
with Pirates. And I am continuing forward. There

1947
01:05:52,719 --> 01:05:54,880
are no signs of stopping. There might be

1948
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:55,840
signs of slipping right.

1949
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:57,280
Right? So

1950
01:05:57,840 --> 01:05:59,760
you know, we'll see when that happens, and

1951
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:00,753
it's possible.

1952
01:06:01,367 --> 01:06:03,515
The pirate kickstarter launch slips into next year.

1953
01:06:03,913 --> 01:06:05,664
I don't think so, but, you know, we'll

1954
01:06:05,664 --> 01:06:06,777
see as we get closer.

1955
01:06:07,829 --> 01:06:10,150
So I think that's on track. Knit circles

1956
01:06:10,150 --> 01:06:11,430
is on track, that's happening.

1957
01:06:13,030 --> 01:06:15,190
I'd I'd say the other piece that I

1958
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:17,784
sort of wanna add to this mix is

1959
01:06:17,842 --> 01:06:18,342
exploring

1960
01:06:19,515 --> 01:06:20,972
other ways to

1961
01:06:23,501 --> 01:06:25,510
to be a part of this industry. Right?

1962
01:06:25,670 --> 01:06:28,150
So now that I've done some development, are

1963
01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:30,549
there other development gigs that I could pick

1964
01:06:30,549 --> 01:06:31,769
up. There's a

1965
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:35,845
a game design on commission opportunity that I'm

1966
01:06:35,845 --> 01:06:36,405
looking at,

1967
01:06:37,204 --> 01:06:39,065
you know, that kind of stuff of

1968
01:06:39,525 --> 01:06:41,704
of what can I do to sort of

1969
01:06:42,098 --> 01:06:44,482
be getting other experience in this industry and

1970
01:06:44,482 --> 01:06:45,935
and things like that? So

1971
01:06:46,707 --> 01:06:47,525
I'm sort of

1972
01:06:48,137 --> 01:06:50,283
tentatively putting that on my goals for the

1973
01:06:50,283 --> 01:06:52,838
year. But that's a little bit more exploratory.

1974
01:06:52,997 --> 01:06:55,695
Right? I think the priority is is Pirates

1975
01:06:55,695 --> 01:06:57,123
and Hawk. Right?

1976
01:06:58,472 --> 01:06:59,187
Knit circle.

1977
01:06:59,757 --> 01:07:01,820
And then I just... I I wanna continue

1978
01:07:01,820 --> 01:07:02,455
to build this

1979
01:07:04,043 --> 01:07:06,027
set of games. Right? I need to continue

1980
01:07:06,027 --> 01:07:08,034
to build my design skills. I need to

1981
01:07:09,138 --> 01:07:10,489
build out my repertoire,

1982
01:07:11,124 --> 01:07:12,873
my resume, my library, whatever it is.

1983
01:07:13,588 --> 01:07:15,200
So that's my

1984
01:07:15,749 --> 01:07:17,743
that's my updated focus for the year. So

1985
01:07:17,822 --> 01:07:19,258
I'm excited that I'm still on track for

1986
01:07:19,258 --> 01:07:21,411
a bunch of it. And, I'm excited that

1987
01:07:21,570 --> 01:07:23,564
I've pivoted some of them. Some of those

1988
01:07:23,564 --> 01:07:24,840
goals were stupid, So I threw them out.

1989
01:07:25,412 --> 01:07:26,447
And new goals.

1990
01:07:27,322 --> 01:07:28,037
Hashtag new goals.

1991
01:07:28,753 --> 01:07:28,912
So...

1992
01:07:31,697 --> 01:07:31,856
Alright.

1993
01:07:33,150 --> 01:07:35,230
Last thing, we're thinking we might do a

1994
01:07:35,230 --> 01:07:38,190
little pitch here if listeners you're not to

1995
01:07:38,190 --> 01:07:39,230
bored of hearing a star.

1996
01:07:39,965 --> 01:07:40,125
So,

1997
01:07:41,324 --> 01:07:41,824
Ro,

1998
01:07:42,605 --> 01:07:43,565
you wanna pitch something?

1999
01:07:45,805 --> 01:07:47,485
Yeah. Yeah. I'll pitch something, But I think

2000
01:07:47,485 --> 01:07:49,105
the way we should do this is

2001
01:07:50,769 --> 01:07:51,008
so,

2002
01:07:51,643 --> 01:07:52,280
as we've said,

2003
01:07:53,472 --> 01:07:56,412
Emily Drew from Boston to my house, and

2004
01:07:56,412 --> 01:07:58,742
we went 2 and front origins together, because

2005
01:07:58,902 --> 01:08:01,059
I was planning on driving already. And my

2006
01:08:01,059 --> 01:08:02,577
house is basically halfway.

2007
01:08:04,588 --> 01:08:06,098
And so, on the way out,

2008
01:08:07,131 --> 01:08:08,188
I had a prompt

2009
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:11,423
based on a component that I had bought

2010
01:08:11,423 --> 01:08:11,662
some,

2011
01:08:12,233 --> 01:08:13,585
and we designed a game on the way

2012
01:08:13,585 --> 01:08:14,699
out. And on the way back,

2013
01:08:16,211 --> 01:08:17,165
Emily had a prompt,

2014
01:08:17,801 --> 01:08:19,725
and we designed a game around that. And

2015
01:08:19,725 --> 01:08:22,029
so I'm gonna let her do the setup

2016
01:08:22,029 --> 01:08:24,094
of the prompt. Okay. And then I'll pitch

2017
01:08:24,094 --> 01:08:24,650
it from there.

2018
01:08:25,683 --> 01:08:25,842
Alright.

2019
01:08:26,734 --> 01:08:29,054
So this is my favorite type of design.

2020
01:08:29,454 --> 01:08:32,734
This is name first design or really pun

2021
01:08:32,734 --> 01:08:33,534
first design.

2022
01:08:34,662 --> 01:08:36,010
So I've been sitting on this name for

2023
01:08:36,010 --> 01:08:39,021
a while, and the name is No nomenclature,

2024
01:08:39,576 --> 01:08:40,923
starting with a g.

2025
01:08:42,373 --> 01:08:42,773
Nomenclature.

2026
01:08:44,131 --> 01:08:47,807
So I, you know, no... A nomenclature is

2027
01:08:47,807 --> 01:08:50,385
a, you know, creation of a naming hierarchy.

2028
01:08:51,656 --> 01:08:54,606
And gnomes are adorable things that live in

2029
01:08:54,606 --> 01:08:56,359
your garden and wear hats.

2030
01:08:56,997 --> 01:08:58,693
And so I

2031
01:08:59,163 --> 01:09:01,778
I'm obsessed with the idea of a...

2032
01:09:02,412 --> 01:09:04,314
The tagline I had was a Gnarly game

2033
01:09:04,314 --> 01:09:05,105
of naming gnomes.

2034
01:09:06,630 --> 01:09:08,630
Because I think that you need to name

2035
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:10,710
your gnomes in a very good hierarchy.

2036
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:13,510
So I was like, Ro, this has been

2037
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:15,270
like my white whale. I have the pun.

2038
01:09:16,083 --> 01:09:18,078
And other than that, I know you're naming

2039
01:09:18,238 --> 01:09:18,636
No.

2040
01:09:19,514 --> 01:09:19,833
So,

2041
01:09:20,711 --> 01:09:22,386
Ro, how are we gonna name these No?

2042
01:09:24,635 --> 01:09:27,027
Yeah. So so it's interesting. So 1 of

2043
01:09:27,027 --> 01:09:27,586
the things

2044
01:09:28,303 --> 01:09:30,616
that we kinda started with. So we'll basically

2045
01:09:30,616 --> 01:09:31,653
tell about of the story and we'll get

2046
01:09:31,653 --> 01:09:32,530
to what the actual game.

2047
01:09:33,261 --> 01:09:35,007
Play we... We decide 1 for the first

2048
01:09:35,007 --> 01:09:35,166
version.

2049
01:09:36,595 --> 01:09:38,421
Is obviously, this is kinda lighter. Right? So

2050
01:09:38,421 --> 01:09:40,191
this is this is not a a euro

2051
01:09:41,456 --> 01:09:43,548
this is probably party or

2052
01:09:43,925 --> 01:09:44,561
family weight.

2053
01:09:45,916 --> 01:09:47,747
And so we we talked about a couple

2054
01:09:47,747 --> 01:09:48,305
different things.

2055
01:09:49,833 --> 01:09:50,333
And

2056
01:09:50,869 --> 01:09:52,782
I think the the thing we kinda settled

2057
01:09:52,782 --> 01:09:54,136
in with given the pun,

2058
01:09:55,970 --> 01:09:56,788
that it really

2059
01:09:57,657 --> 01:10:00,119
probably pushes harder into into a party game.

2060
01:10:00,596 --> 01:10:02,900
Yeah. And so we have all these gnomes,

2061
01:10:03,774 --> 01:10:05,203
and so we have nomenclature.

2062
01:10:06,173 --> 01:10:07,688
And 1 of the things that

2063
01:10:08,167 --> 01:10:09,464
we're talking about this

2064
01:10:09,841 --> 01:10:10,319
that

2065
01:10:11,755 --> 01:10:12,951
stuck in my head right away.

2066
01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:17,380
Pretty early in the idea radiation was

2067
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:20,639
if you look at the word nomenclature,

2068
01:10:22,413 --> 01:10:23,844
there's 2 sounds at the beginning of it.

2069
01:10:24,082 --> 01:10:25,377
And those sounds are

2070
01:10:25,990 --> 01:10:26,490
no

2071
01:10:27,104 --> 01:10:27,580
and men.

2072
01:10:28,454 --> 01:10:29,806
Yep. And so that was just kind of

2073
01:10:29,806 --> 01:10:31,158
a weird thing. And I'm, like,

2074
01:10:32,126 --> 01:10:34,824
we should make this this occasion where the

2075
01:10:34,824 --> 01:10:37,760
gnomes are all all women. Right? There should

2076
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,427
be no men. There are no men. Right?

2077
01:10:39,586 --> 01:10:41,671
So it's it's There's no men. Right? So

2078
01:10:41,671 --> 01:10:42,229
it's no,

2079
01:10:42,708 --> 01:10:43,108
nomenclature,

2080
01:10:44,623 --> 01:10:47,416
and also nomenclature. So that was pretty early

2081
01:10:47,416 --> 01:10:47,576
on.

2082
01:10:48,389 --> 01:10:50,389
And so we... We're sticking with that. Yeah.

2083
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:52,149
So this is a game that has no,

2084
01:10:52,389 --> 01:10:53,609
and there's no

2085
01:10:54,149 --> 01:10:56,309
no male no in it. It's no men.

2086
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,423
So the... We we talk a bunch of

2087
01:10:59,423 --> 01:11:01,908
different structures. Right? So you have these gnomes

2088
01:11:02,123 --> 01:11:02,623
and

2089
01:11:03,314 --> 01:11:05,061
they're going to be visually different in some

2090
01:11:05,061 --> 01:11:05,989
way. Right You have

2091
01:11:06,427 --> 01:11:08,497
obviously, we wanna game... If it's party to

2092
01:11:08,497 --> 01:11:10,805
have some table presence in some kind of,

2093
01:11:10,885 --> 01:11:11,043
like,

2094
01:11:12,078 --> 01:11:13,533
interesting things to consider

2095
01:11:14,719 --> 01:11:15,912
But then the thing is, well, what what

2096
01:11:15,912 --> 01:11:17,662
are you doing with the the naming? Right?

2097
01:11:17,822 --> 01:11:19,492
So there's lots of different ways you can

2098
01:11:19,492 --> 01:11:20,207
kinda go, like,

2099
01:11:21,099 --> 01:11:22,935
you're kinda guessing what someone else is gonna

2100
01:11:22,935 --> 01:11:25,032
pick or you're going to

2101
01:11:25,570 --> 01:11:26,070
all

2102
01:11:26,688 --> 01:11:27,188
assign

2103
01:11:27,805 --> 01:11:28,944
a naming to

2104
01:11:29,562 --> 01:11:29,881
the

2105
01:11:31,488 --> 01:11:34,030
the node that's out there together secretly, and

2106
01:11:34,030 --> 01:11:35,778
then you score or you have a judge.

2107
01:11:36,572 --> 01:11:37,764
And, you know, we we went through a

2108
01:11:37,764 --> 01:11:39,034
lot of those different kinds of systems.

2109
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:40,250
And

2110
01:11:41,592 --> 01:11:42,387
The 1 thing that

2111
01:11:43,183 --> 01:11:44,614
I think, Emily had, like,

2112
01:11:45,330 --> 01:11:46,841
maybe slightly more of a vision for what

2113
01:11:46,841 --> 01:11:48,272
she wanted this to end up than than

2114
01:11:48,272 --> 01:11:49,863
she initially told me, which is fine.

2115
01:11:50,753 --> 01:11:52,506
Was that, like, well, what if it's like,

2116
01:11:53,303 --> 01:11:55,853
we're we're we're discovering these new,

2117
01:11:56,729 --> 01:11:57,527
known species?

2118
01:11:58,496 --> 01:11:59,927
And so this is kinda where we added

2119
01:11:59,927 --> 01:12:01,913
ended up where, like, there's gonna be some

2120
01:12:01,913 --> 01:12:04,219
species, and they're gonna be fairly nonsensical. Right?

2121
01:12:04,377 --> 01:12:05,093
Because these are gnomes.

2122
01:12:05,902 --> 01:12:08,518
And we're going to be classifying them. So

2123
01:12:08,518 --> 01:12:10,500
we're we're No scientist ascend level.

2124
01:12:11,214 --> 01:12:13,220
And we've discovered the new known species

2125
01:12:13,529 --> 01:12:16,080
and we're going to, assign them to different,

2126
01:12:16,877 --> 01:12:19,131
species slash genus slash

2127
01:12:19,509 --> 01:12:21,262
familiar, you know, the Latin kind of, like,

2128
01:12:21,422 --> 01:12:21,820
hierarchy.

2129
01:12:22,871 --> 01:12:24,780
And so, the idea is there's there's gonna

2130
01:12:24,780 --> 01:12:25,280
be

2131
01:12:25,974 --> 01:12:29,099
some number, probably 4 to start of species

2132
01:12:30,126 --> 01:12:32,114
for the game. And they're gonna be kind

2133
01:12:32,114 --> 01:12:33,966
of combined randomly. So

2134
01:12:34,659 --> 01:12:36,385
each species is gonna be 2 words

2135
01:12:37,216 --> 01:12:40,728
of some random latin sounding word. We're, like

2136
01:12:40,863 --> 01:12:42,710
examples are, like, adorable

2137
01:12:43,082 --> 01:12:43,582
maximus.

2138
01:12:43,969 --> 01:12:46,519
Or something like, Yeah. Right or, like... Yeah.

2139
01:12:47,475 --> 01:12:49,887
Whatever. Hinting it's hinting at some characteristic

2140
01:12:50,503 --> 01:12:51,003
that

2141
01:12:51,715 --> 01:12:54,032
and alive. No. Right? Because these n are

2142
01:12:54,032 --> 01:12:55,091
alive. They're not just

2143
01:12:55,550 --> 01:12:55,949
ceramic.

2144
01:12:57,787 --> 01:12:58,287
And

2145
01:12:58,826 --> 01:12:59,785
and so we have to, like,

2146
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:03,330
as a group classify them. Right? And so

2147
01:13:04,105 --> 01:13:07,055
they'll be random. So each pair of classifications

2148
01:13:07,055 --> 01:13:09,696
will be, 2 words and they'll just people

2149
01:13:09,696 --> 01:13:10,569
from a deck randomly.

2150
01:13:11,761 --> 01:13:13,112
And then the thing we were thinking about

2151
01:13:13,112 --> 01:13:13,270
is,

2152
01:13:15,654 --> 01:13:18,060
instead of somebody having a judge. Right? Because

2153
01:13:18,449 --> 01:13:19,884
Judging games have a lot of problems, and

2154
01:13:20,043 --> 01:13:21,956
I think we're both kind of, like, anti

2155
01:13:21,956 --> 01:13:23,152
judging games. Mh.

2156
01:13:23,789 --> 01:13:26,122
We kinda went with, like, a slightly more

2157
01:13:26,514 --> 01:13:27,949
and now just model to something like what's

2158
01:13:27,949 --> 01:13:28,507
and wage.

2159
01:13:29,305 --> 01:13:30,660
And so the way it would work is

2160
01:13:30,660 --> 01:13:32,414
an inner current version that we've not made.

2161
01:13:33,292 --> 01:13:34,828
There'd be some number of no

2162
01:13:35,778 --> 01:13:37,288
better not men because there's no men.

2163
01:13:38,561 --> 01:13:39,834
Out there on the in the on the

2164
01:13:39,834 --> 01:13:41,028
table area. And let's say there's 8.

2165
01:13:41,743 --> 01:13:43,851
Yeah. So that's there's 8 pictures

2166
01:13:44,308 --> 01:13:45,185
pardon me of,

2167
01:13:46,063 --> 01:13:49,012
a female no doing cool stuff, kicking butt.

2168
01:13:49,411 --> 01:13:49,911
And

2169
01:13:50,608 --> 01:13:52,934
1 player is going to be the scientist.

2170
01:13:53,412 --> 01:13:54,868
Right? So we believe in science

2171
01:13:55,723 --> 01:13:58,353
in this at this podcast. And we believe

2172
01:13:58,353 --> 01:14:00,197
in peer review, And so the whole point

2173
01:14:00,197 --> 01:14:03,371
is, somebody's going to see these 8 zooms

2174
01:14:03,371 --> 01:14:04,268
and decide

2175
01:14:04,878 --> 01:14:07,496
which 1 looks most like adorable maximus.

2176
01:14:07,908 --> 01:14:09,600
And which 1 looks more like

2177
01:14:09,974 --> 01:14:12,914
whatever the other ones are? Charisma, something something.

2178
01:14:13,154 --> 01:14:13,312
Yeah.

2179
01:14:14,583 --> 01:14:16,332
Yeah. Some something that sounds cool.

2180
01:14:17,145 --> 01:14:18,505
That we're not saying right now on on

2181
01:14:18,505 --> 01:14:21,704
this podcast, But they're gonna pick 4 that

2182
01:14:21,704 --> 01:14:23,864
they think are the most of whatever it

2183
01:14:23,864 --> 01:14:24,024
is.

2184
01:14:24,917 --> 01:14:25,417
And

2185
01:14:26,194 --> 01:14:27,650
they're also going to assign

2186
01:14:28,586 --> 01:14:30,659
4 disks, which are the numbers 1 before

2187
01:14:30,659 --> 01:14:31,159
about

2188
01:14:32,095 --> 01:14:33,472
how obvious or

2189
01:14:34,585 --> 01:14:35,085
clearly,

2190
01:14:35,704 --> 01:14:37,645
they are that. So, like, if 1 is

2191
01:14:38,344 --> 01:14:40,104
absolutely the most adorable 1,

2192
01:14:40,664 --> 01:14:41,680
and they put that

2193
01:14:42,754 --> 01:14:44,663
a marker that the adorable 1 that's gonna

2194
01:14:44,663 --> 01:14:46,015
be classified. Not which of the 8 it

2195
01:14:46,015 --> 01:14:47,686
is, but which of the category they thought

2196
01:14:47,686 --> 01:14:48,561
was easiest for them.

2197
01:14:50,163 --> 01:14:52,565
Basically, that's how many points you could win

2198
01:14:53,175 --> 01:14:54,309
for guessing correctly

2199
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,872
what the the scientists had, decided to name

2200
01:14:57,872 --> 01:15:00,497
these or or categorize these these Named species.

2201
01:15:01,293 --> 01:15:01,793
So

2202
01:15:02,567 --> 01:15:04,555
the person who's the scientist does that. They

2203
01:15:04,555 --> 01:15:05,453
pick the 4

2204
01:15:05,844 --> 01:15:07,439
that they think Matt's best and they grade

2205
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:08,476
them which 1 was hardest.

2206
01:15:09,752 --> 01:15:11,986
You as a player, a peer review here.

2207
01:15:12,863 --> 01:15:14,219
We're gonna have a little sheet. And so

2208
01:15:14,219 --> 01:15:16,307
you're also going to try to pick Not

2209
01:15:16,307 --> 01:15:18,142
what you think are the 4. Right? So

2210
01:15:18,142 --> 01:15:19,817
this is a game about also knowing the

2211
01:15:19,817 --> 01:15:20,476
the scientists,

2212
01:15:20,854 --> 01:15:22,449
what they think, what you think they picked.

2213
01:15:23,406 --> 01:15:23,906
And

2214
01:15:25,893 --> 01:15:27,802
if you're right for which 1 was the

2215
01:15:27,802 --> 01:15:29,552
adorable maximus, then you would get that many

2216
01:15:29,552 --> 01:15:30,052
points

2217
01:15:30,587 --> 01:15:32,019
that the person had there. Right?

2218
01:15:32,655 --> 01:15:34,189
But you also have

2219
01:15:34,819 --> 01:15:36,497
the ability to wage your numbers 1 to

2220
01:15:36,497 --> 01:15:36,737
4,

2221
01:15:37,376 --> 01:15:37,876
and

2222
01:15:38,494 --> 01:15:39,554
the ability to

2223
01:15:40,173 --> 01:15:42,171
pick which ones you're most sure about.

2224
01:15:42,984 --> 01:15:45,052
And so if you put the 4, you

2225
01:15:45,052 --> 01:15:46,724
have 4321 of the numbers you write with

2226
01:15:46,724 --> 01:15:49,111
your guesses for the 4 for classified gnomes.

2227
01:15:49,827 --> 01:15:51,339
Hopefully, it makes explaining this clearly is making

2228
01:15:51,339 --> 01:15:51,895
sense in my head.

2229
01:15:52,945 --> 01:15:54,137
You pick the 4 that that you think

2230
01:15:54,137 --> 01:15:55,887
go in the 4 categories, and you also

2231
01:15:55,887 --> 01:15:58,433
pick which ones you're most sure about.

2232
01:15:59,323 --> 01:16:01,095
And so your score is

2233
01:16:01,629 --> 01:16:02,583
which ones you're right.

2234
01:16:03,299 --> 01:16:05,287
And it's a sum of how sure you

2235
01:16:05,287 --> 01:16:07,059
were and how hard

2236
01:16:07,369 --> 01:16:08,564
the scientists thought it was.

2237
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:11,591
So if you you could get 8 points

2238
01:16:11,591 --> 01:16:13,104
for 1, if you pick the 1 that

2239
01:16:13,104 --> 01:16:14,380
the scientists thought was hardest,

2240
01:16:15,335 --> 01:16:15,835
and

2241
01:16:17,024 --> 01:16:19,257
you also bet the most on that essentially.

2242
01:16:19,815 --> 01:16:20,315
So

2243
01:16:21,490 --> 01:16:23,324
there's a little bit of, like, thinking this

2244
01:16:23,324 --> 01:16:24,920
not just like, what they picked, but also,

2245
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:26,435
like, where you wanna kinda score your points.

2246
01:16:27,725 --> 01:16:30,058
Additionally, to incentivize the scientist

2247
01:16:30,594 --> 01:16:32,267
to not be a jerk and just, like,

2248
01:16:32,905 --> 01:16:33,622
pick anything.

2249
01:16:34,674 --> 01:16:36,132
They also score points

2250
01:16:36,751 --> 01:16:39,168
if anybody was able to correctly

2251
01:16:39,707 --> 01:16:41,725
guess which known that they

2252
01:16:42,199 --> 01:16:44,279
assigned to the different 4 species. Like, So

2253
01:16:44,279 --> 01:16:46,199
if anybody at all, 1 of our players,

2254
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,159
pick the note that was adorable to be

2255
01:16:49,159 --> 01:16:50,519
in the adorable as pile.

2256
01:16:51,334 --> 01:16:53,572
Then they get that many points. Right? And

2257
01:16:53,572 --> 01:16:54,791
so they're incentivized,

2258
01:16:56,368 --> 01:16:57,967
even when they... They're not doing the guessing,

2259
01:16:58,287 --> 01:17:00,604
they score points based on people guessing incorrect.

2260
01:17:01,497 --> 01:17:01,997
So

2261
01:17:02,533 --> 01:17:05,003
everybody's at incentives are aligned to have good

2262
01:17:05,003 --> 01:17:06,438
guesses that that people

2263
01:17:07,075 --> 01:17:08,191
have out there, but also,

2264
01:17:09,721 --> 01:17:11,396
the people can kinda guess. And people are

2265
01:17:11,396 --> 01:17:13,651
gonna be wrong. Right? Because we all have

2266
01:17:13,948 --> 01:17:14,506
different eyes.

2267
01:17:15,304 --> 01:17:17,537
And the other thing that that Emily made

2268
01:17:17,537 --> 01:17:18,550
a good point about was

2269
01:17:19,463 --> 01:17:20,178
for this game,

2270
01:17:21,291 --> 01:17:23,358
after we do the each round for those

2271
01:17:23,755 --> 01:17:25,344
gnomes are now in those species,

2272
01:17:26,139 --> 01:17:27,012
and they're not removed.

2273
01:17:27,823 --> 01:17:30,536
That becomes the scientific book of knowledge of

2274
01:17:30,536 --> 01:17:32,849
what is in the species adorable maximus.

2275
01:17:33,407 --> 01:17:35,082
And so now the next player is a

2276
01:17:35,082 --> 01:17:36,916
scientist 4 more norms are flipped in,

2277
01:17:37,649 --> 01:17:38,447
and we go again.

2278
01:17:39,243 --> 01:17:39,743
So

2279
01:17:40,759 --> 01:17:43,230
the 1 that may wasn't quite as adorable

2280
01:17:43,230 --> 01:17:44,904
before, may now be the 1 that goes

2281
01:17:44,904 --> 01:17:47,073
up to the ado pile. But now you're

2282
01:17:47,073 --> 01:17:49,308
also stuck a little bit considering what other

2283
01:17:49,308 --> 01:17:50,447
people have already picked

2284
01:17:51,145 --> 01:17:52,682
in terms of what is adorable

2285
01:17:53,220 --> 01:17:55,077
when you're when you're doing your further scientific

2286
01:17:55,296 --> 01:17:55,615
assignments.

2287
01:17:56,987 --> 01:17:58,342
And additionally, at the end of the game,

2288
01:17:58,502 --> 01:17:59,937
let's say just go around 1 time, see

2289
01:17:59,937 --> 01:18:00,734
you has the most points.

2290
01:18:03,127 --> 01:18:04,881
You have a picture of, like,

2291
01:18:05,773 --> 01:18:08,159
This is what gnomes look like that fit

2292
01:18:08,159 --> 01:18:10,092
in the adorable maximus category.

2293
01:18:10,627 --> 01:18:11,900
Right? So you have this artifact,

2294
01:18:13,109 --> 01:18:14,936
Of not just the points you scored across

2295
01:18:14,936 --> 01:18:16,128
the game, but also, like,

2296
01:18:16,923 --> 01:18:18,671
what it looks like. And some of them

2297
01:18:18,671 --> 01:18:20,578
are probably gonna be pretty silly. And and

2298
01:18:20,578 --> 01:18:23,060
there's probably gonna be some nice memorable moments

2299
01:18:23,060 --> 01:18:24,973
of, like, how heck did this 1 end

2300
01:18:24,973 --> 01:18:27,284
up in the angry pile. Right? This is,

2301
01:18:27,364 --> 01:18:29,676
like, the angry category and, like how is

2302
01:18:29,676 --> 01:18:30,176
this

2303
01:18:30,886 --> 01:18:33,276
this 1 known chasing a butterfly with a

2304
01:18:33,276 --> 01:18:35,824
net, like, in the angry pile. Clearly because

2305
01:18:35,824 --> 01:18:37,837
it's chasing something. That seems pretty.

2306
01:18:38,532 --> 01:18:38,692
Right?

2307
01:18:40,145 --> 01:18:41,045
Yeah. So

2308
01:18:41,904 --> 01:18:42,064
anyway,

2309
01:18:43,104 --> 01:18:46,145
that's the basic gist. So... Yeah. So, you

2310
01:18:46,145 --> 01:18:48,064
know, this is something we haven't play tested

2311
01:18:48,064 --> 01:18:50,149
at all. Right? And we're already sort of,

2312
01:18:50,864 --> 01:18:52,692
bumping up against, like, well, how are we

2313
01:18:52,692 --> 01:18:54,996
gonna test this? Because, like, this game relies

2314
01:18:54,996 --> 01:18:56,839
a lot on art. And so we're trying

2315
01:18:56,839 --> 01:18:57,872
to figure out how to get it to

2316
01:18:57,872 --> 01:18:59,542
the table. Right? And I think that there's

2317
01:18:59,542 --> 01:19:01,292
also some, like stuff in here that, like,

2318
01:19:01,451 --> 01:19:04,210
we gotta see how do people feel about

2319
01:19:04,329 --> 01:19:05,847
categorizing in grouping,

2320
01:19:06,567 --> 01:19:08,485
living things. Right? Like, this is definitely a

2321
01:19:08,485 --> 01:19:09,684
thing that science has done.

2322
01:19:10,882 --> 01:19:12,640
Science has done some great things and science

2323
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,332
has done some terrible things. Right? So I'm

2324
01:19:14,332 --> 01:19:16,164
really curious to see how this game plays.

2325
01:19:16,643 --> 01:19:17,997
I'm curious to see how we get it

2326
01:19:17,997 --> 01:19:18,635
to the table.

2327
01:19:19,193 --> 01:19:19,432
Right,

2328
01:19:20,229 --> 01:19:22,473
if you wanna add us, in the in

2329
01:19:22,473 --> 01:19:24,165
the discord. Happy to

2330
01:19:25,096 --> 01:19:26,050
happy to hear from you.

2331
01:19:26,765 --> 01:19:28,378
But, yeah, naming No

2332
01:19:28,752 --> 01:19:29,252
scientifically.

2333
01:19:29,706 --> 01:19:30,604
It's gonna be

2334
01:19:31,314 --> 01:19:32,592
it's gonna be a thing we're gonna try.

2335
01:19:33,072 --> 01:19:35,149
It's gonna be great. I'm very excited.

2336
01:19:36,746 --> 01:19:37,385
So... Yeah.

2337
01:19:39,472 --> 01:19:40,109
Alright. Well,

2338
01:19:40,823 --> 01:19:43,130
thank you all for listening. Thank you, Ro

2339
01:19:43,130 --> 01:19:44,800
for hanging out with me for this long.

2340
01:19:45,117 --> 01:19:45,856
Even though

2341
01:19:46,565 --> 01:19:48,565
it wasn't a full 6 hours. I'm sure

2342
01:19:48,565 --> 01:19:50,645
it still felt. It time passed. Right?

2343
01:19:51,765 --> 01:19:52,265
So

2344
01:19:52,565 --> 01:19:54,085
Ro, where can people find you?

2345
01:19:57,300 --> 01:19:59,619
Yeah. So I'm easy to find. It's just

2346
01:19:59,619 --> 01:20:00,500
at Ro shock.

2347
01:20:01,140 --> 01:20:03,000
Want all the things. So

2348
01:20:03,787 --> 01:20:07,514
Yeah. And I am at Hoc games on

2349
01:20:08,069 --> 01:20:09,203
Instagram and

2350
01:20:10,210 --> 01:20:13,500
Tiktok. Oh, yeah. That's new. Or Emily keeps

2351
01:20:13,500 --> 01:20:13,820
kitties,

2352
01:20:14,619 --> 01:20:17,100
everywhere else. And you can also check out

2353
01:20:17,100 --> 01:20:20,073
my website, hawk games dot com. And if

2354
01:20:20,073 --> 01:20:21,271
you wanna get in touch with the podcast,

2355
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:23,107
you can email us of building the game

2356
01:20:23,107 --> 01:20:25,422
podcast at gmail dot com. You can also

2357
01:20:25,422 --> 01:20:27,098
come join the discord server where you're gonna

2358
01:20:27,098 --> 01:20:28,376
find a lot of awesome people.

2359
01:20:29,028 --> 01:20:31,016
Including folks who get together every Tuesday night

2360
01:20:31,016 --> 01:20:33,641
for a little weekly accountability, check in, what

2361
01:20:33,641 --> 01:20:34,835
have you done this week? What do you

2362
01:20:34,835 --> 01:20:36,505
planning to do? How can we and the

2363
01:20:36,505 --> 01:20:37,141
community help you?

2364
01:20:38,826 --> 01:20:40,416
But the best way to

2365
01:20:41,291 --> 01:20:42,721
hear about what's going on and keep up

2366
01:20:42,721 --> 01:20:44,550
with us is to keep on coming back

2367
01:20:44,550 --> 01:20:45,399
every week

2368
01:20:45,917 --> 01:20:46,953
And until then,

2369
01:20:47,989 --> 01:20:48,468
good night.

2370
01:20:49,983 --> 01:20:52,931
Good night. Building the game, building the game.

2371
01:20:53,904 --> 01:20:56,864
France, with Jason and France, building the game,

2372
01:20:57,264 --> 01:21:00,223
building the game, which Jason and Friends which

2373
01:21:00,223 --> 01:21:00,723
it

2374
01:21:01,093 --> 01:21:02,859
end the episode. That's

2375
01:21:03,625 --> 01:21:03,862
ends?