1 00:00:08,430 --> 00:00:11,960 Welcome to Balancing Life's Issues and Happy Pride Month everyone. 2 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:13,493 I'm your host Kai, 3 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:18,360 and as we look to celebrate the LGBTQ plus community themes across the 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,360 country, jump out strength and solidarity, rage and resilience, 5 00:00:24,370 --> 00:00:26,240 peace, love, revolution. 6 00:00:27,340 --> 00:00:31,920 And that is no surprise as Pride Month comes at a time where there are 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,680 491 anti L G B T Q bills at the state legislative level 8 00:00:36,790 --> 00:00:41,280 according to the A C L U 491. One. 9 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,880 Minute to distinguish Gentle Lady from Washington, representative Jia Powell. 10 00:00:45,050 --> 00:00:49,560 Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise today in strong support of the Equality Act. 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,560 I am the proud mom of a trans kid. 12 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,040 I will fight every single day for every trans person, 13 00:00:57,370 --> 00:01:00,360 every L g LGBTQ person, including my kid, 14 00:01:00,660 --> 00:01:05,320 to explore and express the fullness of their gender without fear 15 00:01:05,660 --> 00:01:06,840 or risk of being fired, 16 00:01:07,060 --> 00:01:11,600 denied housing or refused service because of their sexual orientation or gender 17 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:12,793 identity. 18 00:01:13,300 --> 00:01:17,440 And I chose this clip because it highlights how deeply personal these issues 19 00:01:17,460 --> 00:01:18,293 are. 20 00:01:18,550 --> 00:01:22,800 Anti L G BT Q legislation directly affects the nuclear family. 21 00:01:23,540 --> 00:01:27,720 And right now the most polarizing of these conversations concerns the trans 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,600 community, specifically trans youth. And that's why it has gotten my attention. 23 00:01:33,870 --> 00:01:38,340 Bills that attempt to limit the ability to update gender information on IDs and 24 00:01:38,340 --> 00:01:42,780 records such as birth certificates and driver's license publicly puts this 25 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:47,700 community at risk as they look for jobs go through TSA or are 26 00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:49,020 pulled over in a traffic stop. 27 00:01:49,650 --> 00:01:52,540 Imagine if your ID didn't reflect who you really are, 28 00:01:52,990 --> 00:01:57,540 especially how you present. What kind of harassment would you be subjected to 29 00:01:59,450 --> 00:02:00,710 in schools and education? 30 00:02:00,740 --> 00:02:04,510 It's limiting what kinds of activities this community can participate in 31 00:02:06,110 --> 00:02:06,840 in public. 32 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,730 It's what restroom you can use or what business you can solicit services from. 33 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,370 With healthcare, it's about restricting medically necessary treatment, 34 00:02:15,820 --> 00:02:17,330 especially for trans youth. 35 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,170 Balancing life's issues isn't about taking a stand politically. 36 00:02:22,470 --> 00:02:26,410 And in our 30 years we have spoken to millions of people across the spectrum 37 00:02:26,900 --> 00:02:29,650 about how you can strive for a better work-life balance, 38 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,890 because that's what this issue is really about. 39 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,450 It's a mental health conversation. 40 00:02:36,670 --> 00:02:39,690 If a dear friend or loved one approached you about how they were feeling 41 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,170 depressed or thinking of harming themselves, 42 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:47,600 would your reaction be to call them crazy or take away their rights to the 43 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:48,840 medical treatment they needed? 44 00:02:50,350 --> 00:02:53,600 Whether it's at home in your community or at work, 45 00:02:54,210 --> 00:02:58,360 there is someone in your life who has come out as trans or soon will. 46 00:02:59,470 --> 00:03:03,400 This is an issue that affects all of us and you need to know how to talk about 47 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,520 it. And to help me do that, 48 00:03:05,590 --> 00:03:08,760 I've invited Nicole Madonna and Hayden Nielsen onto the show. 49 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,540 Nicole Madonna is a licensed social worker and clinical therapist with an 50 00:03:13,540 --> 00:03:16,820 extensive background in program development training and therapy with adults. 51 00:03:16,820 --> 00:03:18,140 For the past 20 years, 52 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,860 she received her master's in social work from Fordham University. 53 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,380 Her clinical focus has been in treating complex trauma, 54 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:29,300 including survivors of sexual and interpersonal violence, grief and loss, 55 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,900 intersectional identities in the trauma associated with this. 56 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,940 Hayden Nielsen is a trans man and licensed clinical social work associate. 57 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,260 He provides outpatient therapy to trans and gender diverse individuals. 58 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,340 Hayden received his bachelor's and masters of social work from Appalachian State 59 00:03:46,340 --> 00:03:47,173 University. 60 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,020 Hayden is also a member of Charlotte Trans Health and their trans provider 61 00:03:51,020 --> 00:03:51,853 committee. 62 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:02,033 Is that a cat? 63 00:04:02,870 --> 00:04:03,703 Sorry, . 64 00:04:04,570 --> 00:04:08,140 It's all good. It's all like I'm texting my pregnant wife. Hey, 65 00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:12,460 please keep it down up there. . Uh, first Nicole Madonna, 66 00:04:12,460 --> 00:04:13,540 thank you for being here. 67 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:15,060 Thank you so much for having me. 68 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,900 Of course, of course. And your, I guess I should say associate, 69 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,100 I'm not sure what your relationship is, you'll have to tell me, 70 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,220 but Hayden Nielsen is also joining us. 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:25,580 Yes. It's great to be here. Quickly. 72 00:04:25,610 --> 00:04:27,380 Just tell me how do, how do you guys know each other? 73 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,180 So I'm a licensed clinical social worker in Charlotte and I have, 74 00:04:33,250 --> 00:04:38,020 part of my business is providing supervision and support for newer therapists 75 00:04:38,020 --> 00:04:41,100 who are just getting out of school and required to have a certain amount of 76 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:44,580 supervision hours to get his social work license in the state of North Carolina. 77 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,500 So I'm his supervisor in that space. 78 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,860 And then how often are you guys like in contact in a given week? 79 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,780 Uh, at least once a week. We have a face-to-face session. Um, 80 00:04:53,780 --> 00:04:57,860 sometimes it's just checking in to say We had a crazy week . 81 00:04:57,890 --> 00:04:58,710 Sure. 82 00:04:58,710 --> 00:05:01,380 Which is how the podcast started when we weren't recording. 83 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:02,820 . Right. . 84 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,260 And Hayden, how's, how's it going, 85 00:05:05,410 --> 00:05:07,060 kind of getting to that next step in your career? 86 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,140 Um, it's going really great. I couldn't ask for a better support system. 87 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,780 Um, I'm feeling very confident in, you know, moving forward, um, 88 00:05:18,090 --> 00:05:22,020 from my L C S W A to my L C S W. Um, and I'm, 89 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,180 I'm really glad to have Nicole as my supervisor to help me get there. 90 00:05:26,290 --> 00:05:27,123 Fantastic. 91 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,780 So what I wanted to bring you guys on to the podcast to talk about today 92 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,780 is just, you know, where are we at with the conversation, um, 93 00:05:36,780 --> 00:05:38,860 specifically around trans youth? 94 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,700 Cuz that does seem to be the one that has been politicized. You know, 95 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:46,260 this isn't, this isn't a program about politics. This is a program about equity, 96 00:05:46,830 --> 00:05:51,180 especially when we look to the workforce or being an employee or an employer 97 00:05:51,890 --> 00:05:56,420 because this is such a deeply personal issue that affects so many people. 98 00:05:57,300 --> 00:06:00,000 So, you know, I wanted to throw it over to you, Hayden. First, 99 00:06:00,830 --> 00:06:04,560 just give us a little bit of your background, what your role is in, 100 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:05,393 in that community. 101 00:06:05,950 --> 00:06:10,680 Yeah, so I myself, um, am a trans man. 102 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,920 I came out when I was about 18, 103 00:06:14,220 --> 00:06:18,960 but I had struggled with gender dysphoria or some discomfort between, 104 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:19,820 you know, 105 00:06:19,820 --> 00:06:24,760 my gender and my gender assigned at birth really throughout my whole life. Um, 106 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:29,920 and that was kind of when I came to accept that and really, 107 00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:31,760 you know, decide to do something about it. 108 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:35,400 And I can tell you that since coming out, 109 00:06:35,550 --> 00:06:38,920 getting the care, the gender affirming care that I need, 110 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,440 I cannot express how much it has improved just 111 00:06:44,510 --> 00:06:47,160 overall wellbeing and comfort within myself. 112 00:06:47,660 --> 00:06:50,840 So in my work with, you know, youth, 113 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,240 I am seeing not only youth, 114 00:06:55,420 --> 00:07:00,080 but trans adults as well coming in and really one 115 00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:04,920 being hurt by the fact that this is something that people feels can be 116 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,320 governed and that healthcare is something that some people think could be taken 117 00:07:09,350 --> 00:07:10,020 away. 118 00:07:10,020 --> 00:07:14,880 But also just a lot of increased experiences 119 00:07:15,020 --> 00:07:19,920 of transphobia discrimination because of this anti-trans rhetoric 120 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:20,760 that's being spread. 121 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:25,680 So some people are being misled into services that are really trying to break 122 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,760 down their gender identity and that are really conversion therapy rather than 123 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,280 gender affirming therapy. Um, 124 00:07:33,020 --> 00:07:37,080 really a big overarching issue with 125 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:38,380 the, 126 00:07:38,380 --> 00:07:43,160 the talk and the legislation that's been going on is that there's been so much, 127 00:07:43,420 --> 00:07:45,680 you know, sexualization of the trans community. 128 00:07:46,780 --> 00:07:50,440 Now we we're relating that to, you know, 129 00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:54,840 oh children and that's why they shouldn't be able to have access to these things 130 00:07:54,950 --> 00:07:56,320 when in reality, 131 00:07:56,780 --> 00:08:01,640 gender and sexuality are two different aspects of a person. 132 00:08:01,950 --> 00:08:02,500 Yeah. 133 00:08:02,500 --> 00:08:07,080 And then you kind of see like words like grooming get thrown out there and you 134 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,560 know, the fear of someone in drag, you know, reading books to kids. Um, 135 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,360 I think that's kind of the conversation you're, you're talking about. 136 00:08:14,420 --> 00:08:18,240 And if you could help us kind of like break down some of the terms you kind of 137 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:18,840 threw out there, right. 138 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,120 Because I think that's where it gets really confusing for a lot of people. Um, 139 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:24,440 it just, if you could just start with gender dysphoria, 140 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:26,920 cuz that that was something you experienced. 141 00:08:27,660 --> 00:08:32,520 So gender dysphoria is a diagnosis that you 142 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:33,360 can give somebody. 143 00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:38,720 And what that is is a discomfort from incongruence 144 00:08:39,270 --> 00:08:41,560 with gender and gender assigned at birth. 145 00:08:41,560 --> 00:08:43,920 There's gender identity and gender assigned at birth. 146 00:08:44,540 --> 00:08:48,960 So I identify as male, right? 147 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:53,280 But I was assigned female at birth. So that discomfort that, that brought me, 148 00:08:53,420 --> 00:08:56,400 that's what is described as gender dysphoria. 149 00:08:56,650 --> 00:08:59,400 Right? And that's the mental health conversation, right? Mm-hmm. . 150 00:08:59,540 --> 00:09:00,300 Yes. Nicole, 151 00:09:00,300 --> 00:09:03,840 if you could kind of jump in here just with the mental health piece of this, 152 00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:08,160 right? This search for identity for like how I want to feel in my own skin, 153 00:09:08,180 --> 00:09:11,240 how I want to be comfortable at school, at my place of work. 154 00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:14,880 Can you talk to us about like what, what that conversation is like right now? 155 00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:17,640 You know, it's been the trans community, 156 00:09:17,740 --> 00:09:21,680 the transgender community and non-binary community has gotten so much beautiful 157 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:26,640 visibility, right? People like Laverne Cox and other actors and, and, 158 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:27,480 and, you know, 159 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,160 people in that kind of level of privilege to expose us to 160 00:09:32,420 --> 00:09:34,680 people who may, may not have been exposed to before. 161 00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:39,120 But with that visibility has come this uprising of 162 00:09:39,710 --> 00:09:43,400 fear and distancing and dehumanizing. Um, 163 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:47,960 and so the individuals go through the gender dysphoria internally, 164 00:09:49,140 --> 00:09:53,280 and not everybody, I would think goes to at the same like experience for sure. 165 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,600 Everybody's an individual with that. 166 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:58,640 And some folks experience it very young and some folks experience it throughout 167 00:09:58,640 --> 00:09:59,150 their life. 168 00:09:59,150 --> 00:10:02,480 Even once gender affirming care has been initiated and transition has started, 169 00:10:03,420 --> 00:10:06,920 um, it's not always something that needs to be diagnosed, 170 00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:09,360 it's something that mm-hmm. , you know, I think we, 171 00:10:09,620 --> 00:10:12,480 we are very quick to put things in boxes and checklists. 172 00:10:12,910 --> 00:10:17,680 What we know to be true is once people have kids, youth, 173 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:22,880 adults have a safe space with somebody to talk to about what they 174 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,320 experience in their mind and body and how it doesn't feel congruent and how it 175 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,720 feels uncomfortable and how they don't feel seen and heard 176 00:10:30,380 --> 00:10:35,080 the other side effects of that get lifted, like suicidality, um, thoughts, 177 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,720 attempts and successful, um, 178 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,440 suicides have happened quite a bit at such a high rate with trans youth in 179 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,000 particular. Um, 180 00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:47,160 so it's not necessarily something that people need therapy for. 181 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,160 I think I wanna be clear that identifying as a trans individual in the world 182 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,200 doesn't mean that there's something wrong that you need therapy for or something 183 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,280 that you have to like fix in therapy. For most folks that come to therapy, 184 00:10:58,380 --> 00:11:02,800 and correct me if I'm wrong, Hayden, it's really about affirming. Like, this is, 185 00:11:02,810 --> 00:11:07,240 these feelings are real, I exist, I I gotta figure it out. 186 00:11:07,420 --> 00:11:10,440 What's my journey as a trans-identified individual, 187 00:11:11,050 --> 00:11:15,720 which not everybody has Hayden's path or other folks' path or, you know, 188 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,200 Laverne Cox's path for that matter. 189 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:21,840 So it really is about helping people kind of put the puzzle pieces together for 190 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,160 them to figure out what they're, 191 00:11:24,420 --> 00:11:26,280 how they're going to embrace that part of themselves. 192 00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:29,080 Yeah. No, and I love that you added that, 193 00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:32,320 that it's not something that is an issue. You know, 194 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:37,080 this identity is not the problem. The problem is, you know, 195 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:42,160 the stigma and discrimination and inequity and 196 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,400 all of that mm-hmm. that compiles onto a person with a, 197 00:11:47,780 --> 00:11:48,960 you know, with a trans identity. 198 00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:51,560 Yeah. Some states, and I know in North Carolina this is true, 199 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,000 sometimes you have, they require you, 200 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,000 a surgeon may require you or a doctor who's, 201 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,800 who's administering hormones may require an individual, um, 202 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:02,560 no matter the age to go see a therapist, to get a letter, 203 00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:05,560 it pretty much stating, using more professional terms, yes, 204 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:07,320 this person is actually trans and please do the, 205 00:12:07,420 --> 00:12:10,480 do the things to help them live in their authentic self. 206 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:13,560 And there's pretty much no other, I mean, to get, you know, 207 00:12:14,220 --> 00:12:17,400 for a cis hetero woman to have plastic surgery, 208 00:12:17,660 --> 00:12:19,160 you don't have to have a mental examination. 209 00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:20,760 You don't have to have a letter of support mm-hmm. , 210 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,760 you can go and do 50 surgeries with without anybody calling, you know, 211 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,080 raising an alarm and saying, you have to go to see a therapist for this. Um, 212 00:12:28,180 --> 00:12:30,720 yet the gatekeeping that happens in the trans community, 213 00:12:31,220 --> 00:12:34,960 and it's a huge barrier for some folks. I mean, there's a lot of therapists, 214 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,600 at least in our community that will provide that service, that letter and, 215 00:12:37,660 --> 00:12:41,640 and initial assessment for free. But it's a real, 216 00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:45,640 it's a real issue when we're looking at a huge high, high homelessness rate, 217 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,320 high unemployment rate, you know, where are we getting money for this? 218 00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:50,880 How are we accessing this support? 219 00:12:51,940 --> 00:12:56,800 So there's a lot of barriers in place for people to even push through the 220 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,360 gender dysphoria and just to, to be able to, to find the affirming care. 221 00:13:00,550 --> 00:13:03,960 Yeah. And that gate keeping point you said, and like the hurdles required, 222 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,640 right. And the community, you know, with the, 223 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,640 with the legislation you're seeing it, it's, it's things as, 224 00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:14,680 as small as your ability to change the information on your id. 225 00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:16,720 So like when you're at tsa, 226 00:13:16,910 --> 00:13:21,600 like how you are approached or how you're maybe even harassed, um, 227 00:13:22,070 --> 00:13:26,640 when you're pulled over by police because you don't look 228 00:13:26,830 --> 00:13:29,760 like what your ID is saying. Right? So mm-hmm. , it's, 229 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,880 it's things as small as that, 230 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,080 that are just making just the life of someone in that community, um, 231 00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:39,840 so much harder not to mention the, the violence. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. 232 00:13:39,940 --> 00:13:42,640 The continued violence, um, that we see against the community. 233 00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:45,000 And just to kind of bring it back, 234 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,320 this is such a deeply personal thing for so many people and it affects members 235 00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:52,640 of their family, people in their community. And, you know, Hayden, 236 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,520 I just kind of wanted to throw it over to you, 237 00:13:54,590 --> 00:13:58,160 like as an immediate family member, you know, 238 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,960 what's your role when you know someone comes out as trans? 239 00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:06,840 To keep it plain and simple is to be as supportive as possible. 240 00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:09,880 You might have doubts, you might have worries, 241 00:14:10,020 --> 00:14:14,080 and that's normal because this is a adjustment for you too, as a parent, 242 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:16,200 as a sibling, whoever it might be. 243 00:14:17,220 --> 00:14:20,800 But this process is about that person. 244 00:14:22,220 --> 00:14:25,560 So, you know, trying to cast those judgments aside, 245 00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:30,680 wanting what's best for your family member, educating yourself and, 246 00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:33,920 you know, meeting them where they're at and asking what can I do? What, 247 00:14:33,950 --> 00:14:38,920 what can we change? And just kind of working with them to be able to, you know, 248 00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:43,280 support them through this transition into, you know, their authentic self. 249 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,640 Yeah. And speaking from personal experience, there's a, 250 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,960 a family member of mine who's gone through this experience, 251 00:14:48,060 --> 00:14:52,600 and I needed to be cut a little slack to kind of get to a place where 252 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,240 I wasn't screwing up the pronouns or wasn't screwing up the name Right. 253 00:14:56,260 --> 00:15:00,480 And I appreciated that I, I had that grace, right. To make the mistake. 254 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:05,280 Um, can like, maybe, can you just talk to us a little bit, like what does that, 255 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,880 what's that reaction like right when the, 256 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,360 the wrong pronoun gets said or something like that? 257 00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:13,800 Yeah. So I think, you know, like I was saying, you know, before, 258 00:15:14,630 --> 00:15:17,760 this is an adjustment for everybody. So if, you know, 259 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,360 we've been using these pronouns since this person was born, there's gonna be, 260 00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:25,360 you know, some time that it, you know, we might slip up a few times, 261 00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:29,200 but making that effort is what's important. And I think, you know, 262 00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:31,600 having some grace is awesome, 263 00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:35,320 but also when that happens, you know, 264 00:15:35,620 --> 00:15:38,960 trying not to make it about you, right? Like you slipped up, 265 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:43,520 but it's still about mm-hmm. that person, right? So saying, sorry, 266 00:15:43,530 --> 00:15:45,240 correcting yourself and moving on, 267 00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:50,080 rather than making it this whole big thing and I'm trying, and this and that. 268 00:15:50,590 --> 00:15:53,840 Just to use Hayden and I as an example, if I mess up, you know, 269 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,600 even though I know and he knows that I know, 270 00:15:56,060 --> 00:15:58,200 but if I mess it up and I make a mistake and, 271 00:15:58,340 --> 00:16:01,560 and then I make it about me and how I made the mistake instead of about how it 272 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,240 impacted him, he's now has the burden to take care of me in that moment. 273 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:09,320 And it shifts and it recenters the moment on me, right? 274 00:16:09,460 --> 00:16:11,400 And not on the harm I might have just caused. 275 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,600 And how I can remedy that and make up for it, which is possible to do. I mean, 276 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,960 you can always come back and because we care about him, 277 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,840 because I care about him and I'm, if I'm gonna make that mistake, it it, right, 278 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,720 I would need to go somewhere else to deal with the mistake that I made and the 279 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,560 shame and guilt that I might feel from that. 280 00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:29,480 Not necessarily with hated in that moment. 281 00:16:29,980 --> 00:16:31,800 No matter how close you are with somebody, by the way, 282 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,760 sometimes that's still not their job to take care of us as, um, 283 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:37,680 aspiring allies to that person. 284 00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:41,880 Yeah. I appreciate you saying that. Don't make it about you , right? Uh, 285 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,240 it's still about that person. Um, and you know, 286 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,720 and speaking of that role in the workplace, right? 287 00:16:46,950 --> 00:16:51,720 Because maybe it's an employee who's going through this transition or maybe it's 288 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:52,553 your coworker. 289 00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:56,440 Um, speaking directly to those in positions of power in an organization, 290 00:16:56,740 --> 00:16:58,960 you know, if, if this is sort of never happened before. 291 00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:02,920 So what do you have in place that's affirming? Um, and if there, 292 00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:06,560 if the answer is nothing, how can you create space for that? 293 00:17:06,820 --> 00:17:08,720 The fir My first suggestion would be to, 294 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,560 to bring in somebody from the trans community to consult and pay them to do that 295 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,640 and pay them for their time and energy and effort because I don't pretend to 296 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,640 imagine what it feels like to walk around in that space and be visible 297 00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:24,080 in that way. Mm-hmm. . 298 00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:27,720 And so I could guess maybe what might be needed in a workplace, 299 00:17:27,820 --> 00:17:30,920 but I also think that it's important to hear from the community themselves and 300 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,760 what they need. Mm-hmm. . Um, that's my first thought, right? 301 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,720 Is how do you create a safer space for folks to come out, um, 302 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,160 and to be more trustworthy. Um, 303 00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:46,040 the other piece is what go talk to HR and figure out your health insurance. 304 00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:50,640 Do your offerings allow people gender affirming care mm-hmm. , um, 305 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,040 because some insurances do not. 306 00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:55,560 And some of those insurance companies are tacking it on now, 307 00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:58,960 but you may not know it exists. So it's something that you can utilize to, 308 00:17:59,180 --> 00:18:00,240 you know, let people know. 309 00:18:00,260 --> 00:18:03,560 And that goes for colleagues as well as those with children who might be coming 310 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,000 out, right? Because if they cover them under their insurance, so much of this, 311 00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:08,480 so much of these medical, 312 00:18:08,660 --> 00:18:12,280 the medical side of the affirming care treatments are so expensive. Mm-hmm. 313 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:13,140 , it's really, 314 00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:17,560 it is another one of the barriers to people being able to just be authentic in 315 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,160 their bodies. Um, 316 00:18:19,660 --> 00:18:22,280 and it's something that you as a leader in your organization can help. 317 00:18:22,620 --> 00:18:25,720 And if you do have somebody who has, you know, approached you and said, 318 00:18:26,260 --> 00:18:28,760 I'm trans, I'm coming out, I'm going through transition, 319 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,040 I want to ask them what they need from you. Right? Yeah. 320 00:18:32,190 --> 00:18:35,280 What do you need from me as your supervisor, as your colleague, 321 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,600 as your coworker, as your, you know, whomever to help you in the workplace. 322 00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:42,280 You know, maybe it's somebody who's worked there for 10 years Yeah. 323 00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:47,040 And it might be difficult for a lot of people around them to understand and 324 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,200 support. Yeah. Um, but we start with them first and foremost. Right. 325 00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,520 And just making sure that support is, is from the top down. 326 00:18:54,730 --> 00:18:55,470 Absolutely. 327 00:18:55,470 --> 00:18:59,560 That coming out process could also be a wide spectrum, right? It could be, yeah. 328 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,960 A very private thing, but could also be a very public thing. Mm-hmm. 329 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,200 . Um, so your role as the employer is to Yeah. 330 00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:08,160 To make it about them, um, 331 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,360 and make sure they feel comfortable enough to say something. 332 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,560 Because I think a lot of what we've seen, especially over the last couple, 333 00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:19,360 few years is this normalization of the mental health conversation, 334 00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:23,280 which is very much happening in the workplace. Mm-hmm. . Um, 335 00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:23,980 you know, 336 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:28,920 the more that you can show that you are open to the mental health 337 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,360 conversation, the more it's normalized and then the more that someone, 338 00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:37,520 an employee feels comfortable saying, you know what, I'm not doing too well. Um, 339 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,880 I have had these kinds of thoughts and your role as an employer in helping them, 340 00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:46,440 and that same conversation happening when it comes to the trans community, 341 00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:49,400 talking about it, normalizing it, and yeah. This, 342 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,480 this whole idea of confrontation. And I don't know, like the, the big, 343 00:19:53,580 --> 00:19:56,440 big word that comes out to me is resiliency. Hayden and I, 344 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,600 I don't know if there's anything you wanted to speak to when it, 345 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,040 when it comes to like that word in, in the trans community and, 346 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:03,873 and the work you do? 347 00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:05,640 No, I think, you know, 348 00:20:06,150 --> 00:20:10,520 individuals in the trans community are incredibly resilient. Um, 349 00:20:11,090 --> 00:20:16,040 there is constant messaging, whether that's, 350 00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:20,880 you know, in media from people around us, from actions of, 351 00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:26,040 you know, legislators that there's something wrong with us and that there's, 352 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:27,000 you know, issues. 353 00:20:27,260 --> 00:20:32,160 But I see people every day using that resilience to take steps forward 354 00:20:32,420 --> 00:20:36,680 to one, be more comfortable with themself and, you know, 355 00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:39,720 live a healthy, happy, healthy life, 356 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:44,360 but also to stand up and advocate for their community 357 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:48,600 and, you know, make this situation better for those to. 358 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:49,800 Come. I was gonna say, you know, 359 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,320 those of us that are aspiring allies can do the same thing, um, 360 00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:59,200 from wherever you sit mm-hmm. , right? Whether that's, as you know, 361 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,280 director of HR and you're on the phone with your insurance companies, 362 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,280 making sure that these things exist so that employees can access them without 363 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,120 having to go through you. You know, 364 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:11,960 trying to remove barriers is one of the pieces that allies and aspiring allies, 365 00:21:12,660 --> 00:21:17,040 um, can do. But also we should be doing, whenever I'm asked why I, 366 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,960 I put myself out there in the space, it's, it's because they're, 367 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,760 because we're human beings and people deserve safety, security mm-hmm. 368 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,280 , internal, external in every space that we occupy. 369 00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:33,000 And my privilege of being a cisgender heterosexual white woman affords me a lot 370 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,000 of privilege. I wasn't, I didn't ask for it, but we have it. So how do I use it? 371 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,440 I appreciate that. And, you know, there's so much to think about and, you know, 372 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,360 I just really, if we, 373 00:21:42,620 --> 00:21:46,880 if we just look at pride month in the celebration of the community across the 374 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,040 spectrum, I'll ask you first, Hayden, 375 00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:53,400 what do you think is one thing current ally or potential ally who are to hear 376 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,720 this could do this month? 377 00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:56,680 Listen to people in the trans community. 378 00:21:56,940 --> 00:22:01,600 Listen to people when they say that these 379 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:03,000 laws that are, you know, 380 00:22:03,490 --> 00:22:08,440 being proposed and passed are going to increase suicide rates 381 00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:09,653 in youth. 382 00:22:09,790 --> 00:22:14,200 They're going to increase mental health concerns across the, 383 00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:15,133 the community. 384 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,360 I think trying to take away the trans piece and just think of healthcare or 385 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,600 mental healthcare, like that's necessary. Educating yourself, 386 00:22:23,870 --> 00:22:27,000 listening to those who are experiencing what's going on. 387 00:22:27,230 --> 00:22:28,960 I'll throw the same question over to you, Nicole. 388 00:22:29,030 --> 00:22:33,610 Something that's just on my heart is also believing, right? We have to, 389 00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:37,010 those of us that don't right. Exist in that community and hold that space, 390 00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:42,090 we have to just believe that this is their experience, right? 391 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,090 Like mm-hmm. , and then what do we do about it? Right? 392 00:22:45,390 --> 00:22:49,850 So educating yourself and becoming very aware is really important. 393 00:22:50,150 --> 00:22:53,450 And there's a lot of resources out there. Go to the source, right? Like, 394 00:22:53,790 --> 00:22:55,690 if you're gonna learn about the community and what, 395 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,330 what actually is impacting them, 396 00:22:57,430 --> 00:23:01,850 go to one of those places that actually serves the community. But really just, 397 00:23:01,850 --> 00:23:06,570 this is hard work. Like, we have to hold a deep love mm-hmm. 398 00:23:06,610 --> 00:23:09,970 for the trans community so that we can help uplift them and 399 00:23:09,970 --> 00:23:10,803 support them. 400 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:14,010 Again, thank you so much for the conversation. I think it's really important. 401 00:23:14,590 --> 00:23:18,970 Um, and you know, to what you're saying, Nicole, inform yourself. Um, 402 00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:23,730 and to what, what you said, Hayden, just be empathetic. Believe listen. 403 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,730 It's a, it's a mental health conversation. So, um, I really appreciate it. 404 00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:30,330 And again, thank you to you Nicole. Thank. 405 00:23:30,330 --> 00:23:33,770 You for having me here. I'm excited to hear the episode, . Of course. 406 00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:35,410 And thanks to you Hayden. 407 00:23:35,540 --> 00:23:37,130 Thank you so much for the opportunity. 408 00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:49,280 This has been a production of Balancing Life's Issues with your host, 409 00:23:49,290 --> 00:23:51,880 Wendy Wilner, produced by me, Kai Sorenson. 410 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,760 Subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and you'll get brand new episodes 411 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,600 as they drop. Got an idea for the show. Leave a comment or email Kai k a i, 412 00:24:00,910 --> 00:24:02,920 balancing life's issues.com. Tom.