1 00:00:01,439 --> 00:00:03,699 Elise, I gotta tell you something. My mom, 2 00:00:03,759 --> 00:00:06,480 she just hates tattoos. This 90 year old 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,160 woman and and I I don't know what 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,000 to do with that. Like, it's a big 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,919 workplace issue. Right? Like so when I met 6 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:13,279 you at the Goldman Sachs conference, I was 7 00:00:13,279 --> 00:00:14,434 like, wow. Enlighten 8 00:00:14,814 --> 00:00:16,754 me. How do I teach my mom 9 00:00:17,054 --> 00:00:18,894 to lighten up? This is a problem I've 10 00:00:18,894 --> 00:00:20,654 dealt with with everybody I know, and I 11 00:00:20,654 --> 00:00:22,574 have a solution. Once I make this film 12 00:00:22,574 --> 00:00:24,494 and people have this film in front of 13 00:00:24,494 --> 00:00:28,510 them, I promise their perspective about tattoos will 14 00:00:28,510 --> 00:00:30,269 change. And my film is about people who 15 00:00:30,269 --> 00:00:32,109 change their own bodies because of a scar 16 00:00:32,109 --> 00:00:34,130 that they have or something that they have 17 00:00:34,270 --> 00:00:35,869 on their body that they wanna look at 18 00:00:35,869 --> 00:00:38,670 in a different way. The whole film was 19 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:39,045 inspired 20 00:00:47,364 --> 00:00:48,824 unpacking here. Yes. 21 00:00:49,684 --> 00:00:51,604 Thank you for joining. You all know I'm 22 00:00:51,604 --> 00:00:54,060 Wendy Wallner. This is your job now. We're 23 00:00:54,060 --> 00:00:56,140 talking about tattoos. So, Elise, why don't you 24 00:00:56,140 --> 00:00:57,840 jump in and tell us who you are 25 00:00:57,899 --> 00:00:59,739 and why I'm so excited to talk to 26 00:00:59,739 --> 00:01:02,059 you today. So I'm Elise Jaffe. I'm the 27 00:01:02,059 --> 00:01:04,700 owner and executive producer of Big Teeth Productions. 28 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:06,465 We're a production company in Chicago. 29 00:01:06,944 --> 00:01:10,004 And, I've been producing for twenty seven years, 30 00:01:10,465 --> 00:01:12,465 all different types of content. But I started 31 00:01:12,465 --> 00:01:13,125 my company 32 00:01:13,664 --> 00:01:16,325 almost twenty one years ago, twenty years ago. 33 00:01:16,465 --> 00:01:18,325 And in 2018, 34 00:01:18,465 --> 00:01:21,120 we were approached to bid on a job 35 00:01:21,340 --> 00:01:23,439 with a haircare brand out of London 36 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:26,400 who was raising money for breast cancer research, 37 00:01:26,459 --> 00:01:28,540 but they designed one hair straightener. There was 38 00:01:28,540 --> 00:01:30,780 gonna be a tattoo artist who was going 39 00:01:30,780 --> 00:01:32,540 to create the actual design that would be 40 00:01:32,540 --> 00:01:35,234 on that straightener, and a certain percentage of 41 00:01:35,234 --> 00:01:37,715 those sales were going directly to breast cancer 42 00:01:37,715 --> 00:01:39,715 research. I'm getting it now. I'm getting the 43 00:01:39,715 --> 00:01:41,954 vibe here. I'm getting it. Okay. So the 44 00:01:41,954 --> 00:01:44,114 artist happened to be in Chicago. And even 45 00:01:44,114 --> 00:01:45,875 though the company was in London, they were 46 00:01:45,875 --> 00:01:48,000 coming to Chicago to film with him. So 47 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,400 they reached out to production companies here. And 48 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,640 as soon as we saw this land on 49 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:53,920 our desk, I was like, this is a 50 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,920 project I wanna do. I have not had 51 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,840 anyone in my immediate family die of breast 52 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,680 cancer, but I have had a lot of 53 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,480 people I know either go through treatment or 54 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:03,459 have passed away. 55 00:02:04,135 --> 00:02:06,055 So I knew that this was something really 56 00:02:06,055 --> 00:02:08,794 interesting and important. And as a Jewish person, 57 00:02:09,094 --> 00:02:11,094 I was like, oh, and tattoos. Let me 58 00:02:11,094 --> 00:02:13,414 stop there just to interject. For those of 59 00:02:13,414 --> 00:02:15,335 you listening, you know that I'm also Jewish. 60 00:02:15,335 --> 00:02:17,735 And just a point of clarification, it's the 61 00:02:17,735 --> 00:02:20,449 idea of not not scarring your body is 62 00:02:20,530 --> 00:02:23,409 right? There's a there's actually one verse in 63 00:02:23,409 --> 00:02:23,909 Leviticus 64 00:02:24,209 --> 00:02:26,609 nineteen twenty eight, and I can't remember the 65 00:02:26,609 --> 00:02:28,449 exact I should know this, but it's like, 66 00:02:28,449 --> 00:02:31,250 thou thou shall not make markings upon thy 67 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:33,754 skin and whatever in any way. We have 68 00:02:33,754 --> 00:02:36,395 the tattoos that the survivors, anyone that went 69 00:02:36,395 --> 00:02:38,634 to a death camp or a concentration camp, 70 00:02:38,634 --> 00:02:40,955 the numbers. So tattoos have a lot of 71 00:02:40,955 --> 00:02:41,455 unpacking 72 00:02:41,915 --> 00:02:42,974 to do. Mhmm. 73 00:02:43,354 --> 00:02:45,435 Right? We've got the rules. Religious unpacking. Yeah. 74 00:02:45,435 --> 00:02:47,034 Jews are not the only ones that have 75 00:02:47,034 --> 00:02:49,219 religious stigmas. Exactly right. Then we have the 76 00:02:49,219 --> 00:02:51,780 unconscious bias thing where we see a tattooed 77 00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:53,000 person. We're like, druggie. 78 00:02:53,460 --> 00:02:53,960 Yeah. 79 00:02:54,260 --> 00:02:56,260 Gang member, which is why I thought the 80 00:02:56,260 --> 00:02:58,659 conversation would be if I want you to 81 00:02:58,659 --> 00:03:01,300 talk directly to the leader or manager at 82 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:01,879 a company, 83 00:03:02,235 --> 00:03:05,754 organization, hospital school, and their employee says, oh, 84 00:03:05,754 --> 00:03:07,034 I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get my 85 00:03:07,034 --> 00:03:08,875 twenty ninth tattoo or I'm gonna get my 86 00:03:08,875 --> 00:03:11,114 first tattoo. What should the manager say or 87 00:03:11,114 --> 00:03:12,974 do? I think that first of all, everybody's 88 00:03:13,194 --> 00:03:15,034 decision to do to their bodies is their 89 00:03:15,034 --> 00:03:15,854 own. Right? 90 00:03:16,780 --> 00:03:19,579 But the fact that tattoos are scrutinized in 91 00:03:19,579 --> 00:03:21,500 workplaces and that people think they're not gonna 92 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:23,259 get jobs because of it is awful. I 93 00:03:23,259 --> 00:03:25,259 would ask about it. What what tattoo are 94 00:03:25,259 --> 00:03:27,340 you getting and why? Because there's a story 95 00:03:27,340 --> 00:03:29,900 behind every tattoo. That's your moral. Right? There's 96 00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:32,715 a story behind every tattoo. There's a story 97 00:03:32,715 --> 00:03:35,115 behind every tattoo. Yeah. How would you respond 98 00:03:35,115 --> 00:03:37,675 to that tattoo is art? Tattoos are definitely 99 00:03:37,675 --> 00:03:40,415 art. There are tattoo artists are artists 100 00:03:40,794 --> 00:03:42,235 that are designing them. And, 101 00:03:43,355 --> 00:03:44,335 a lot of people 102 00:03:44,969 --> 00:03:47,370 will say that your body is the canvas 103 00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:48,430 for the artist. 104 00:03:48,889 --> 00:03:50,889 A lot of people are anti the idea 105 00:03:50,889 --> 00:03:52,650 of your body being considered a canvas. I 106 00:03:52,650 --> 00:03:54,989 mean, I would think that most tattoo artists 107 00:03:55,449 --> 00:03:57,610 actually embody the idea of being an artist. 108 00:03:57,610 --> 00:04:00,615 They're creating something. Even if they're copying a 109 00:04:00,615 --> 00:04:02,935 design or something like that, they are there 110 00:04:02,935 --> 00:04:05,735 is skill and and artistic ability that is 111 00:04:05,735 --> 00:04:08,134 involved in this. Right? And what's art to 112 00:04:08,134 --> 00:04:09,814 somebody is not art to someone else. And, 113 00:04:09,814 --> 00:04:11,574 like, in the kind of tattoos we're talking 114 00:04:11,574 --> 00:04:13,655 about in my film, there's an art therapy 115 00:04:13,655 --> 00:04:15,594 angle to it as well. Like, we have 116 00:04:15,710 --> 00:04:17,870 art therapists that are in the film talking 117 00:04:17,870 --> 00:04:20,589 about using tattoos as a means for healing. 118 00:04:20,589 --> 00:04:23,069 So if art therapists consider it a way 119 00:04:23,069 --> 00:04:25,410 to heal and they're they're focusing on art, 120 00:04:25,470 --> 00:04:27,709 then that's an even more of a thumbs 121 00:04:27,709 --> 00:04:29,709 up for it being considered art. So and 122 00:04:29,709 --> 00:04:31,764 that's why you did the documentary, to really 123 00:04:31,764 --> 00:04:35,045 educate people on the skill and the art 124 00:04:35,045 --> 00:04:37,204 of tattooing. Is that right? Yeah. So I 125 00:04:37,204 --> 00:04:38,024 made the film 126 00:04:38,324 --> 00:04:39,625 to really change people's 127 00:04:40,004 --> 00:04:40,504 perspectives 128 00:04:40,884 --> 00:04:41,704 on tattoos 129 00:04:42,165 --> 00:04:44,425 and see them as a form of healing 130 00:04:44,485 --> 00:04:46,939 for people. And what was really interesting as 131 00:04:46,939 --> 00:04:48,459 I went down the path of learning about 132 00:04:48,459 --> 00:04:51,199 this like, about tattoos in general is that 133 00:04:51,339 --> 00:04:53,259 tattoos have been used for healing since the 134 00:04:53,259 --> 00:04:55,019 beginning of time. Like, or since the beginning 135 00:04:55,019 --> 00:04:57,339 that we've ever seen a tattooed person, a 136 00:04:57,339 --> 00:04:59,660 mummy or a Otzi, this ice man that 137 00:04:59,660 --> 00:05:02,055 was found in, like, the Andes. They have 138 00:05:02,055 --> 00:05:04,295 been used for for healing. So this is 139 00:05:04,295 --> 00:05:05,975 not a new concept. And this is way 140 00:05:05,975 --> 00:05:08,134 before people thought, oh, they're just for sailors. 141 00:05:08,134 --> 00:05:10,134 They're just for gang members. They're just for 142 00:05:10,134 --> 00:05:12,775 branding. Like, you know, who owns me? But 143 00:05:12,775 --> 00:05:15,740 then they've gotten this bad reputation, and then 144 00:05:15,740 --> 00:05:17,740 it kind of has come back. And so 145 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:20,379 the history of tattooing is very interesting. And 146 00:05:20,379 --> 00:05:21,819 I didn't wanna make a film about that, 147 00:05:21,819 --> 00:05:23,819 but there is certainly part of that history 148 00:05:23,819 --> 00:05:26,460 that that is really important for this film. 149 00:05:26,460 --> 00:05:28,754 I wanted to make a film for people 150 00:05:28,754 --> 00:05:31,794 who are physically scarred by trauma or illness 151 00:05:31,794 --> 00:05:33,875 and have something on their body that they 152 00:05:33,875 --> 00:05:35,475 look at in the mirror and they don't 153 00:05:35,475 --> 00:05:38,435 feel whole and they don't feel right, and 154 00:05:38,435 --> 00:05:40,834 they want to turn that into something that 155 00:05:40,834 --> 00:05:43,175 they see as beautiful. And there are artists, 156 00:05:43,439 --> 00:05:45,439 tattoo artists that specialize in this kind of 157 00:05:45,439 --> 00:05:47,379 work, and they have that artistic ability. 158 00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:50,080 They have this skill because it's not easy 159 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,759 to work on scars, and you have to 160 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:53,360 know how to work on scars. You can't 161 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,199 just go to any artist and assume they're 162 00:05:55,199 --> 00:05:56,714 gonna be able to do it. And they 163 00:05:56,714 --> 00:05:59,754 also have this empathy and this ability to 164 00:05:59,754 --> 00:06:01,354 listen. Because if you think about it, when 165 00:06:01,354 --> 00:06:03,115 you're I'm I mean, I assume that you 166 00:06:03,115 --> 00:06:05,435 don't have any tattoos, but maybe I shouldn't 167 00:06:05,435 --> 00:06:07,995 assume. So I do. When you're sitting in 168 00:06:07,995 --> 00:06:10,414 the chair or on the table being tattooed, 169 00:06:11,139 --> 00:06:13,300 especially if you have trauma, especially if you 170 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:15,240 have a scar, something's gonna be unlocked. 171 00:06:15,779 --> 00:06:18,259 Yeah. And that artist has to be prepared 172 00:06:18,259 --> 00:06:20,439 and be trauma informed enough 173 00:06:20,740 --> 00:06:24,100 to be able to listen and know when 174 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:26,665 to interject or when to be there. And 175 00:06:26,665 --> 00:06:28,904 not every tattoo artist has that, you know? 176 00:06:28,904 --> 00:06:30,824 I think that's the beauty, sir. Is that, 177 00:06:30,824 --> 00:06:33,064 you know, we're doing this to heal. This 178 00:06:33,064 --> 00:06:35,564 is a healing arts form, whether it be, 179 00:06:35,625 --> 00:06:37,805 you know, the Japanese art form of kintsugi 180 00:06:37,944 --> 00:06:38,605 or whether 181 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,759 many healing art forms. This is one healing 182 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:43,759 art form. So it sounds to me like 183 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:45,360 what you're saying to the leader or the 184 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,920 manager is you've got an unconscious bias, you 185 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,639 gotta recognize it, and you gotta talk about 186 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:52,875 it. Yep. So many people have unconscious bias. 187 00:06:52,875 --> 00:06:54,235 Like, when I say what I'm making a 188 00:06:54,235 --> 00:06:56,014 film about, people will be like, 189 00:06:56,395 --> 00:06:58,555 or, oh, I'm really interest. Like, there's such 190 00:06:58,555 --> 00:07:01,435 a, like, a A divine. Visceral response to 191 00:07:01,435 --> 00:07:03,995 it. Yeah. And, and and, like, from my 192 00:07:03,995 --> 00:07:05,639 family, it's been it's I've been working on 193 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:07,639 the film for almost six years, and I've 194 00:07:07,639 --> 00:07:10,680 seen sort of their ideas and thoughts about 195 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,180 tattoos transform. And I got my first tattoo 196 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,160 while working on this film, and I could 197 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,175 tell that my mom was like, oh, no. 198 00:07:17,254 --> 00:07:19,095 And then I just had some work done 199 00:07:19,095 --> 00:07:20,774 on the tattoo to kind of enhance it, 200 00:07:20,854 --> 00:07:22,694 with one of the artists from my film. 201 00:07:22,694 --> 00:07:25,014 And I showed my mom in December. She's 202 00:07:25,014 --> 00:07:27,675 like, oh my god. It's beautiful. And so 203 00:07:27,735 --> 00:07:29,995 that's one person that already has their perspective 204 00:07:30,055 --> 00:07:32,055 changed. You know? I always say that it's 205 00:07:32,055 --> 00:07:35,000 sort of that, like, women in their to 206 00:07:35,460 --> 00:07:38,899 sixties probably that were, like, raised as, like, 207 00:07:38,899 --> 00:07:41,139 okay. I'm gonna do what my parents I 208 00:07:41,139 --> 00:07:43,300 don't I don't wanna isolate women, but but 209 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:44,660 I do think that a lot of it 210 00:07:44,660 --> 00:07:46,580 is. It's a female thing. Oh, we're good 211 00:07:46,580 --> 00:07:48,375 girls, and we we do what our parents 212 00:07:48,375 --> 00:07:50,535 tell us, and we're not challenging. And today's 213 00:07:50,535 --> 00:07:52,415 generation, because I have a teenager, there is 214 00:07:52,415 --> 00:07:54,694 a lot of, like, pushback of, but why 215 00:07:54,694 --> 00:07:55,995 and wanting to understand. 216 00:07:56,295 --> 00:07:58,454 And I don't think my generation did that. 217 00:07:58,454 --> 00:08:00,535 It was, okay. I get it. This is 218 00:08:00,535 --> 00:08:02,535 what we're supposed to believe. And so it's 219 00:08:02,535 --> 00:08:04,314 it's having us sort of think about 220 00:08:04,670 --> 00:08:07,389 why and how, and it's interesting because as 221 00:08:07,389 --> 00:08:09,069 a Jew, that's what we're told to do 222 00:08:09,069 --> 00:08:09,810 is question 223 00:08:10,350 --> 00:08:12,850 and and take a phrase from the Torah 224 00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:15,149 and interpret it in all different ways. And 225 00:08:15,149 --> 00:08:17,470 yet people aren't doing that with this one 226 00:08:17,470 --> 00:08:19,745 phrase. So it's been a very interesting journey 227 00:08:19,745 --> 00:08:22,064 for me over the past six years. So 228 00:08:22,064 --> 00:08:23,985 drum roll. When can we expect it to 229 00:08:23,985 --> 00:08:26,404 come out? So the film is called Unscarred, 230 00:08:26,625 --> 00:08:29,425 and the website is unscarredfilm.com. 231 00:08:29,425 --> 00:08:30,944 So one of the stories in our film 232 00:08:30,944 --> 00:08:33,299 is about a woman named Shalik who, at 233 00:08:33,299 --> 00:08:34,360 the age of 16, 234 00:08:34,820 --> 00:08:35,539 had a, 235 00:08:36,179 --> 00:08:39,139 flesh eating bacteria that ended up causing her 236 00:08:39,139 --> 00:08:41,240 to have a mastectomy and 237 00:08:41,620 --> 00:08:44,100 shoulder surgery where she lost a lot of 238 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:46,184 her skin, and she's been scarred since then. 239 00:08:46,345 --> 00:08:48,904 And in her thirties, decided that she wanted 240 00:08:48,904 --> 00:08:50,825 to get a tattoo to cover it. So 241 00:08:50,825 --> 00:08:52,044 it's been an incredible 242 00:08:52,424 --> 00:08:54,664 experience getting to know her and watching her 243 00:08:54,664 --> 00:08:57,544 transform throughout this process. I hope it will 244 00:08:57,544 --> 00:09:00,524 be done this year. But Okay. Fingers crossed. 245 00:09:00,779 --> 00:09:03,339 The problem with making a documentary when you 246 00:09:03,339 --> 00:09:05,659 own a production company is it is all 247 00:09:05,659 --> 00:09:09,019 based on grants and donations. And we have 248 00:09:09,019 --> 00:09:11,740 done this whole film for a fraction of 249 00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:14,459 the original budget that I anticipated because we 250 00:09:14,459 --> 00:09:15,919 just didn't have the donations, 251 00:09:16,254 --> 00:09:17,934 and we still need money to finish it. 252 00:09:17,934 --> 00:09:19,934 Right now, it's we can work on it 253 00:09:19,934 --> 00:09:21,294 when we have the time, but a lot 254 00:09:21,294 --> 00:09:22,735 of the things we're doing at this point 255 00:09:22,735 --> 00:09:24,735 are out of pocket costs. So my company 256 00:09:24,735 --> 00:09:26,735 internally can't do it. It's the color work. 257 00:09:26,735 --> 00:09:28,814 It's the music and the scoring. And so 258 00:09:28,814 --> 00:09:30,654 I have great relationships with people that are 259 00:09:30,654 --> 00:09:32,929 helping me to get it done no matter 260 00:09:32,929 --> 00:09:35,350 what. You talk bootstrapping. You're bootstrapping. 261 00:09:35,970 --> 00:09:38,610 Yeah. So everything is We will go ahead 262 00:09:38,610 --> 00:09:40,309 and put a link if you feel like 263 00:09:40,449 --> 00:09:42,769 supporting NICE and you feel like supporting the 264 00:09:42,769 --> 00:09:44,625 work, that would be great. We'll put a 265 00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:45,524 link in the podcast. 266 00:09:45,904 --> 00:09:47,985 I think most importantly is that I think 267 00:09:47,985 --> 00:09:50,384 I have better talking points for my mom 268 00:09:50,384 --> 00:09:53,264 and my, any bosses or leaders out there. 269 00:09:53,264 --> 00:09:55,184 So, it was great meeting you, Elise, and 270 00:09:55,184 --> 00:09:56,565 thank you so much for joining. 271 00:10:05,929 --> 00:10:07,690 Thanks for listening to This Is Your Job 272 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:10,424 Now, produced by me, Kai. If this episode 273 00:10:10,424 --> 00:10:12,024 made you think or made you feel, we 274 00:10:12,024 --> 00:10:13,865 hope it also made you realize. You don't 275 00:10:13,865 --> 00:10:15,704 have to figure this out all alone. Leadership 276 00:10:15,704 --> 00:10:18,024 today is about presence, not perfection. To learn 277 00:10:18,024 --> 00:10:20,345 more, follow Wendy Wohner on LinkedIn, subscribe to 278 00:10:20,345 --> 00:10:22,629 Balancing Life's Issues on YouTube, or stream the 279 00:10:22,629 --> 00:10:24,870 podcast wherever you listen. Because if you're leading 280 00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:27,269 people, this is your job now. Anything else 281 00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:28,089 to add, Miles?