I've learned how to, like, let go my
preconceived notions of what I think a branding
system or the next issue or the next
event should look like. I will always say
it's not just me, it's my team. I
think it's really important that, especially in public,
you are praising your team. You're telling people
that it is not just me because it's
a nice, like, soup of ideas that come
from everybody else.
Welcome to This Is Your Job Now. We're
incredibly excited to have you as the creative
director for Fast Company and learn from you
for the next few minutes to share your
insights, your stories,
and even maybe a little of your potholes
because we love to glean from those, like
the ohs. So first of all, just thank
you so much for being Thanks for having
me. Thanks for having me. It's an honor.
So for sake of time, and we know
the attention span of our listeners is already
past the point. Right? Yeah. Let's get right
in and talk about the creativity and business
of work, that it's moving with lightning speed.
If you take a minute and talk about
the future of work, with everything going on
that I don't need to list, and we
started with the big question about how are
you doing your job? How are you getting
up on a on a Monday morning and
moving forward with the creativity that the world
demands today?
Yeah. I mean, I think it's important context
too for
listeners to know, like, what I do as
a creative director, and I won't, like, go
into a ten minute monologue about that. But
Okay. As a creative director of Fast Company,
I oversee design and photo teams. So we're
responsible for all the visuals for the brand.
So, like, from the magazine to our event,
like the Invasion Festival, to our own podcast,
like, the branding of those. You know, I
I wanna emphasize that we have people creating
all of our artwork. So I think that,
like, the biggest tension whether or not, like,
you have
creative people or AI Mhmm. Creating the work.
Right? So I stress that because, you know,
I
like to make sure that the individuality
of all the creatives come through in what
Fast Company does. The way that I've built
that into, like, my leadership style is not
being
too restrictive
in, you know,
how a designer might wanna come up with,
like, a look for, like, our next podcast
or how, you know, our next innovation festival
branding will look. It's like giving my designers
and my photo directors, like, autonomy to create
a look that's important to them. Because in
the context of leadership in 2025 and creativity
and beyond, is it's really important to, you
know, let the individuals
come up with their their own looks that
feel special to them because
the risk that we face with, you know,
overusing
AI is that everything can look the same.
The the general term for that is, like,
AI slop. Right? But, like, I like to
embrace the
imperfection and the humanity
in people's work and what they do. And,
you know, something I've learned in my years
and, you know, you mentioned potholes in my
career, and we could talk about that too,
is, like, I've learned how to, like, let
go or put aside my pre preconceived
notions of what I think, like, a branding
system or the next issue or the next
event should look like?
So, you know, I have a list of
questions that I think I'll just rip off
because
you you just opened up more interesting conversation.
I always like listeners to say I have
a takeaway. So the first takeaway there to
me is which is huge is that it
sounds to me like somebody may have a
better idea than you. That somebody All the
time.
Yeah. So that's a huge, right? Like ego,
check the ego. When I started, it was
like the creative director was the the
sole genius behind the entire thing. You know,
even, like, with at our innovation festival two
weeks ago, people were constantly coming up to
me and saying, oh, you you do such
a great job with Fast Company. And I
will always say it's not just me. It's
my team. And that's not just me, you
know, doing that kind of generic leader move.
It really is my team,
and I think it's really important that, especially
in public, you are praising your team. You're
telling people that it is not just me
because it really is just like Right. It's
it's a it's a nice, like, soup of
ideas that come from everybody else too. Many
of our listeners
aren't blessed enough to have a creative director.
They're
they're the CEOs, the CFOs,
everything. Right? They're the creative directors. So our
listeners
are are saying, I wanna be like Mike.
I wanna I wanna you guys fire,
but that's okay. They can learn a lot
from you, and you've had an amazing career.
And, you know, the humility, which I always
think is so interesting because some leaders have.
I've interviewed so many. Some are really truly
very humble about the experience and others are
not. One of the toughest questions for a
minute, up for a little role play here.
Sure. Let's do it. I think one of
the hardest things that people are facing today,
leaders are facing today, is that person on
the team that says,
I'm exhausted from change. I just wanna do
it the way we did last time, and
I've already
I've given you my best ideas, Mike. I'm
done. And I really feel like we shouldn't
keep changing. Now in, like, the context of,
like, what I do when it's, like, creativity
is I might be taking a step back
and outlining for them, like, why
we're changing things the way they are,
and then showing them or, like, sharing a
story with them on, like, how that change
might Mhmm. Help their creativity. So I can
give you a good example of that too
is when I started at Fast Company
over seven years ago, their way of design
was very structured. Right?
And which made sense, like, when you like,
I think about structure. I think about, like,
technology and it like, visually, it it kinda
made sense. But I
wanted to kind of embrace a little bit
of, like, chaos in our creativity and, like,
go back going back to this idea of,
like, having a brand without having a brand.
Right? So, like, I wanted to shake up
the way we would approach things, and I
had a lot of people here
that had been doing things the same way
for a long period of time. They were
saying things like, I don't wanna change the
way things are. Or maybe it was it
was just implied in Mhmm.
Mannerisms,
how many versions of a design they had
shared. But over time, what happened was as
I helped guide people to, like, you know,
try these new design solutions, I could see
that people started to feel more energized.
The most important thing is to to take
a step and explain why this change is
happening. If if if a situation
sucks, if you say, like, I know this
sucks, and I know you don't like it.
You know? But, like, because it it it
shows that you're human and that and that
you under that that it's it's a real
situation and that you're not just
a cyborg
delivering any kind of, like, orders. Help them
see and understand how it's gonna benefit them.
And and a quick thing I can always
say to a team member is, like, this
will be great in your portfolio. Right? Like,
you know, because there's creative There's a little
buy in there. There's there's some buy in.
There's gonna be work that they do that,
like, that we all do as creatives that's
great for our portfolio portfolio. And then there's
gonna be work that, like, we're like, this
is this is crap. Right? And so it's
to, you know, it's called what it is.
Very inspirational. Right? I mean, you clearly come
across as a really nice guy. Thanks.
I've seen you present. You come across
with hundreds of people.
It's your worst day,
and it has to happen. And one of
the things that we really are focusing on
now is how do you handle that on
your day where you're off? It's just not
your best day. What what suggestions do you
have for yourself and as a leader? I
have a weekly one on one with my
boss, and he might ask me, and this
has happened in the past where, you know,
how's the cover going? You know? And, like,
we're we're two weeks from deadline. We've chosen
a photo for the cover. I now need
to design it and, like, basically
have that burst of creativity that, like, you
know, makes a Fast Company cover what it
is. So there are times when my boss
asked me, and I'll just tell him, like,
I'm not feeling inspired.
You know? The the quote, unquote muse hasn't
hasn't hit me yet, but, like, I will
get it done.
And I think that it's like,
he,
you know, he inspires me to be honest
with him,
and I inspire my team to be honest
with me when I'll just ask, how are
you? Having that kind of dialogue and honesty
with your boss and your leader is really
important. It's like, I feel comfortable saying to
my boss, like, it's it's not happening. It's
not happening right now. Because I I think
I think that shows
confidence in in saying it's not happening right
now.
We spend a lot of time with this
big discussion.
You're describing a very confident leader
as you yourself use that word. Right? Yep.
Where does it come from? You know, you
mentioned earlier, and I'm very flattered. You said,
like, I'm, you know, a good public speaker.
And I wasn't always a good public speaker.
I was a terrible public speaker
even when I was in my twenties.
You have to bomb through a little bit.
Like, you have to you have to earn
confidence. You don't just like, people can be
cocky. Right? And that's not earned. That's faking
it, but you you have to earn confidence.
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think in
my in my earlier years as a designer
and even as a creative director, I was
cocky. And I fell on my face because
of it Seven years later, we're, like, I
will start a project and say, like, you
know, what what's inspiring you? What's your idea?
But I know that at at the end
of the day, like, we'll create something great
because my team will be inspired. You know,
every individual wants to put their fingerprints on
something. We all wanna be involved in something.
And I know that, like,
through the decisions I make, you know, when
I'm working with my team on whatever their
vision is on something,
my my fingerprint will come through at the
end of the day. Right? But it's like
having
trusted that'll happen. This is how it leaks
confidence. Right? You just exude it. So what's
what's the thing you wish that leaders would
do more of?
What's the one thing you've learned when you're
at the leaders table and you're like, why
don't these people just
what? Fill in the blank.
I wish leaders, especially when you start a
job, and I've tried to do this especially
with younger team members, is ask where do
you want your next job to be? Like,
to be honest about like, we all know
you don't plan to be here forever.
Right? But, like, if we can be honest
about that and what kind of work do
you wanna get, what experience do you wanna
get out of the job creates, you know,
a little bit of a ladder and a
growth plan, but, like, a very conversational,
honest growth plan, not like, you know, what
are my KPIs for the next six months?
Like, know, like, having that conversation about where
do you want to be. You know, for
example, like, I have,
we have a design fellowship here at Fast
Company. So it's basically,
you come you graduate college, you join us
for a year,
and I will help you get your
first job after Fast Company. And I've and
I've written I've written a curriculum for that
and, like, a syllabus for that. And I
have my current design fellow who's three months
in now. My last one on one with
her last week, I asked her just now
write
your resume
experience from Fast Company, even though you're just
three months in. Because what we can do
from that is we can look at that
and see what experience do you have and
what experience do you need. Right? So it
it it becomes, you know, a documentation of
what you've done, but it also becomes almost
like a creative, like, manifestation exercise where you
could say, okay. Like, I wanna do branding
for the next Fast Company podcast.
Or, like, I wanna help you, Mike, with,
like, the next script for the next video
that you're working on. It's like what I
do with my kids, Mike. I'm like, what
what do you want me to do? Like,
what kind of mother am I gonna be
at this next phase of their life? Right?
Like, where am I taking the journey?
Right. So you've been incredibly,
gracious and and generous with your time. I
think I'm gonna end with the hardest question
though. Oh, okay.
One of the themes we've been looking about
that has changed in leadership over my
thirty five years of being in is really
this mission and passion, right? The connection to
what we do for a living. Like, what
does it matter? How are we fixing the
world?
And do leaders feel that burden?
Is that important to you? Is it important
to you to be connected to a mission
and passion?
Is it something you think leaders should take
on, or do you think that it's irrelevant
you should just do your job? I can
say that every leader should have should be
purpose driven. I will say that I am
purpose driven. I wasn't always purpose driven. You
know, when I got into this industry twenty
something years ago, I mean, in this graphic
design industry Mhmm. I just, like, wanted to
make cool looking things.
Right?
I'm I'm I'm I'm totally I'm totally seriously
sound very well.
I loved drawing comics as a kid. I
wasn't the brightest high school student. My parents'
only mandate was you have to go to
college because
college
teaches you how to learn. Right? And that
was that was the only thing. And it
was it was really great advice, and I'm
gonna tie you to what I'm gonna say
in a minute. But they you know, they
said college teaches you how to learn, and
it made me a forever student. I signed
a contract to teach college in February 2020.
And then and I was so excited to
teach in person
because, like,
my mom is a retired high school teacher.
And if you have a teacher, like, especially
if you're one of your parents or a
teacher, they always want you to teach to
some degree. So
I I signed that contract, you know, March
2020, pandemic, and then I had to learn
how to teach, like, over Zoom, basically.
And it it changed my perspective on,
like,
purpose, where, like, I saw that, okay, my
students
now, who don't even wanna turn their cameras
on Zoom, are feeling burnt out. They're telling
me how they don't feel creative. Like, when
I was in college, I never would have
told a professor,
hey. I don't feel creative today. Right? But
that's where I kinda started to feel, okay,
sense of purpose
where my role is not just to help
people, like,
make things look cool like I wanted to
do twenty something years ago. It's to help
people feel more creative because that's where, like,
they wanna, like, get up every single day
and do the thing that they do. So,
like, that's what inspired me to, like, write
my book, Creative Endurance. That's what inspired me
to continue to wanna teach. And if I
can energize people to be more creative, my
team at Fast Company will do better work.
You know, Mike, thank you. I can tell
you would you like to know my takeaway
from today?
Sure.
I love the fact that when I'm listening
to you and I felt it when I
heard you speak, and we talked about you
behind your back, of course, as we Okay.
The workshop
and had attended, as you know, so many
workshops. You go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom, because that's the way it is.
I think the takeaway,
and even more now I'm hearing you, is
if we could create leaders who are more
honest.
Yeah. Honesty is honesty is important. I think
I probably get
honesty my honesty from growing up in Long
Island. We were very, very direct with each
other for better or worse. Right. But yeah.
Yeah. Honesty is a great, great, best way
to huge story, and it's great to hear
that people that are as incredibly successful as
you
have found that path
continuing to be honest.
Yeah. So I particularly wanna thank you. I
know you don't have to be here today.
It means a lot to us. It means
a lot to our audience.
Really wanna thank you so much for sharing.
We're gonna put a link to your bio
and to your to your book. So
really thank you so much for taking the
time. Great. Thank you so much, Wendy. This
was a pleasure.
Thanks for listening to this is your job
now, produced by me, Kai. If this episode
made you think or made you feel, we
hope it also made you realize you don't
have to figure this out all alone. Leadership
today is about presence, not perfection. To learn
more, follow Wendy Wollner on LinkedIn, subscribe to
Balancing Life's Issues on YouTube, or stream the
podcast wherever you listen. Because if you're leading
people, this is your job now. Anything else
to add, Miles?