1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,040 I've learned how to, like, let go my 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,679 preconceived notions of what I think a branding 3 00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:10,160 system or the next issue or the next 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,080 event should look like. I will always say 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:13,914 it's not just me, it's my team. I 6 00:00:13,914 --> 00:00:16,155 think it's really important that, especially in public, 7 00:00:16,155 --> 00:00:18,394 you are praising your team. You're telling people 8 00:00:18,394 --> 00:00:20,074 that it is not just me because it's 9 00:00:20,074 --> 00:00:22,314 a nice, like, soup of ideas that come 10 00:00:22,314 --> 00:00:23,454 from everybody else. 11 00:00:25,515 --> 00:00:27,515 Welcome to This Is Your Job Now. We're 12 00:00:27,515 --> 00:00:29,699 incredibly excited to have you as the creative 13 00:00:29,699 --> 00:00:31,620 director for Fast Company and learn from you 14 00:00:31,620 --> 00:00:33,619 for the next few minutes to share your 15 00:00:33,619 --> 00:00:35,079 insights, your stories, 16 00:00:35,539 --> 00:00:37,560 and even maybe a little of your potholes 17 00:00:37,619 --> 00:00:39,620 because we love to glean from those, like 18 00:00:39,620 --> 00:00:41,700 the ohs. So first of all, just thank 19 00:00:41,700 --> 00:00:43,700 you so much for being Thanks for having 20 00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:45,075 me. Thanks for having me. It's an honor. 21 00:00:45,795 --> 00:00:47,395 So for sake of time, and we know 22 00:00:47,395 --> 00:00:49,875 the attention span of our listeners is already 23 00:00:49,875 --> 00:00:51,875 past the point. Right? Yeah. Let's get right 24 00:00:51,875 --> 00:00:53,954 in and talk about the creativity and business 25 00:00:53,954 --> 00:00:56,774 of work, that it's moving with lightning speed. 26 00:00:56,914 --> 00:00:58,594 If you take a minute and talk about 27 00:00:58,594 --> 00:01:00,710 the future of work, with everything going on 28 00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:02,390 that I don't need to list, and we 29 00:01:02,390 --> 00:01:04,469 started with the big question about how are 30 00:01:04,469 --> 00:01:06,549 you doing your job? How are you getting 31 00:01:06,549 --> 00:01:08,489 up on a on a Monday morning and 32 00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:11,109 moving forward with the creativity that the world 33 00:01:11,109 --> 00:01:12,090 demands today? 34 00:01:12,390 --> 00:01:14,469 Yeah. I mean, I think it's important context 35 00:01:14,469 --> 00:01:15,129 too for 36 00:01:15,435 --> 00:01:16,875 listeners to know, like, what I do as 37 00:01:16,875 --> 00:01:18,635 a creative director, and I won't, like, go 38 00:01:18,635 --> 00:01:20,394 into a ten minute monologue about that. But 39 00:01:20,555 --> 00:01:22,575 Okay. As a creative director of Fast Company, 40 00:01:22,635 --> 00:01:24,795 I oversee design and photo teams. So we're 41 00:01:24,795 --> 00:01:26,795 responsible for all the visuals for the brand. 42 00:01:26,795 --> 00:01:29,130 So, like, from the magazine to our event, 43 00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:31,530 like the Invasion Festival, to our own podcast, 44 00:01:31,530 --> 00:01:33,450 like, the branding of those. You know, I 45 00:01:33,450 --> 00:01:36,650 I wanna emphasize that we have people creating 46 00:01:36,650 --> 00:01:38,170 all of our artwork. So I think that, 47 00:01:38,170 --> 00:01:39,930 like, the biggest tension whether or not, like, 48 00:01:39,930 --> 00:01:40,590 you have 49 00:01:40,984 --> 00:01:43,625 creative people or AI Mhmm. Creating the work. 50 00:01:43,625 --> 00:01:46,025 Right? So I stress that because, you know, 51 00:01:46,025 --> 00:01:46,525 I 52 00:01:47,064 --> 00:01:48,685 like to make sure that the individuality 53 00:01:49,064 --> 00:01:51,064 of all the creatives come through in what 54 00:01:51,064 --> 00:01:53,224 Fast Company does. The way that I've built 55 00:01:53,224 --> 00:01:55,864 that into, like, my leadership style is not 56 00:01:55,864 --> 00:01:56,280 being 57 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:57,340 too restrictive 58 00:01:57,799 --> 00:01:58,939 in, you know, 59 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,479 how a designer might wanna come up with, 60 00:02:01,479 --> 00:02:03,579 like, a look for, like, our next podcast 61 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,140 or how, you know, our next innovation festival 62 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,939 branding will look. It's like giving my designers 63 00:02:09,159 --> 00:02:12,245 and my photo directors, like, autonomy to create 64 00:02:12,245 --> 00:02:14,165 a look that's important to them. Because in 65 00:02:14,165 --> 00:02:16,885 the context of leadership in 2025 and creativity 66 00:02:16,885 --> 00:02:20,245 and beyond, is it's really important to, you 67 00:02:20,245 --> 00:02:21,385 know, let the individuals 68 00:02:21,844 --> 00:02:23,525 come up with their their own looks that 69 00:02:23,525 --> 00:02:25,385 feel special to them because 70 00:02:25,950 --> 00:02:27,710 the risk that we face with, you know, 71 00:02:27,710 --> 00:02:28,210 overusing 72 00:02:29,310 --> 00:02:31,629 AI is that everything can look the same. 73 00:02:31,629 --> 00:02:33,150 The the general term for that is, like, 74 00:02:33,150 --> 00:02:35,950 AI slop. Right? But, like, I like to 75 00:02:35,950 --> 00:02:36,930 embrace the 76 00:02:37,230 --> 00:02:38,849 imperfection and the humanity 77 00:02:39,275 --> 00:02:40,875 in people's work and what they do. And, 78 00:02:40,875 --> 00:02:42,635 you know, something I've learned in my years 79 00:02:42,635 --> 00:02:44,635 and, you know, you mentioned potholes in my 80 00:02:44,635 --> 00:02:45,995 career, and we could talk about that too, 81 00:02:45,995 --> 00:02:47,835 is, like, I've learned how to, like, let 82 00:02:47,835 --> 00:02:50,415 go or put aside my pre preconceived 83 00:02:50,715 --> 00:02:53,849 notions of what I think, like, a branding 84 00:02:53,849 --> 00:02:56,330 system or the next issue or the next 85 00:02:56,330 --> 00:02:57,629 event should look like? 86 00:02:58,569 --> 00:03:00,090 So, you know, I have a list of 87 00:03:00,090 --> 00:03:01,770 questions that I think I'll just rip off 88 00:03:01,770 --> 00:03:02,270 because 89 00:03:02,569 --> 00:03:05,469 you you just opened up more interesting conversation. 90 00:03:06,365 --> 00:03:08,284 I always like listeners to say I have 91 00:03:08,284 --> 00:03:10,205 a takeaway. So the first takeaway there to 92 00:03:10,205 --> 00:03:12,125 me is which is huge is that it 93 00:03:12,125 --> 00:03:14,284 sounds to me like somebody may have a 94 00:03:14,284 --> 00:03:16,444 better idea than you. That somebody All the 95 00:03:16,444 --> 00:03:16,944 time. 96 00:03:17,245 --> 00:03:19,905 Yeah. So that's a huge, right? Like ego, 97 00:03:20,250 --> 00:03:22,409 check the ego. When I started, it was 98 00:03:22,409 --> 00:03:24,349 like the creative director was the the 99 00:03:24,729 --> 00:03:27,449 sole genius behind the entire thing. You know, 100 00:03:27,449 --> 00:03:29,449 even, like, with at our innovation festival two 101 00:03:29,449 --> 00:03:31,610 weeks ago, people were constantly coming up to 102 00:03:31,610 --> 00:03:32,810 me and saying, oh, you you do such 103 00:03:32,810 --> 00:03:34,250 a great job with Fast Company. And I 104 00:03:34,250 --> 00:03:35,985 will always say it's not just me. It's 105 00:03:36,064 --> 00:03:37,985 my team. And that's not just me, you 106 00:03:37,985 --> 00:03:39,905 know, doing that kind of generic leader move. 107 00:03:39,905 --> 00:03:41,444 It really is my team, 108 00:03:41,824 --> 00:03:43,985 and I think it's really important that, especially 109 00:03:43,985 --> 00:03:45,985 in public, you are praising your team. You're 110 00:03:45,985 --> 00:03:47,985 telling people that it is not just me 111 00:03:47,985 --> 00:03:50,879 because it really is just like Right. It's 112 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:53,120 it's a it's a nice, like, soup of 113 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,519 ideas that come from everybody else too. Many 114 00:03:55,519 --> 00:03:56,419 of our listeners 115 00:03:56,719 --> 00:03:59,060 aren't blessed enough to have a creative director. 116 00:03:59,120 --> 00:03:59,620 They're 117 00:03:59,919 --> 00:04:01,459 they're the CEOs, the CFOs, 118 00:04:01,784 --> 00:04:04,185 everything. Right? They're the creative directors. So our 119 00:04:04,185 --> 00:04:04,685 listeners 120 00:04:05,145 --> 00:04:06,985 are are saying, I wanna be like Mike. 121 00:04:06,985 --> 00:04:09,085 I wanna I wanna you guys fire, 122 00:04:09,544 --> 00:04:11,224 but that's okay. They can learn a lot 123 00:04:11,224 --> 00:04:13,324 from you, and you've had an amazing career. 124 00:04:13,865 --> 00:04:16,330 And, you know, the humility, which I always 125 00:04:16,330 --> 00:04:18,670 think is so interesting because some leaders have. 126 00:04:18,730 --> 00:04:21,209 I've interviewed so many. Some are really truly 127 00:04:21,209 --> 00:04:23,449 very humble about the experience and others are 128 00:04:23,449 --> 00:04:25,449 not. One of the toughest questions for a 129 00:04:25,449 --> 00:04:27,550 minute, up for a little role play here. 130 00:04:27,689 --> 00:04:29,564 Sure. Let's do it. I think one of 131 00:04:29,564 --> 00:04:31,964 the hardest things that people are facing today, 132 00:04:31,964 --> 00:04:34,204 leaders are facing today, is that person on 133 00:04:34,204 --> 00:04:35,345 the team that says, 134 00:04:35,805 --> 00:04:38,045 I'm exhausted from change. I just wanna do 135 00:04:38,045 --> 00:04:39,564 it the way we did last time, and 136 00:04:39,564 --> 00:04:40,305 I've already 137 00:04:40,845 --> 00:04:42,845 I've given you my best ideas, Mike. I'm 138 00:04:42,845 --> 00:04:45,800 done. And I really feel like we shouldn't 139 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:48,580 keep changing. Now in, like, the context of, 140 00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:50,839 like, what I do when it's, like, creativity 141 00:04:51,620 --> 00:04:53,620 is I might be taking a step back 142 00:04:53,620 --> 00:04:55,560 and outlining for them, like, why 143 00:04:55,939 --> 00:04:57,879 we're changing things the way they are, 144 00:04:58,564 --> 00:05:01,045 and then showing them or, like, sharing a 145 00:05:01,045 --> 00:05:02,805 story with them on, like, how that change 146 00:05:02,805 --> 00:05:05,365 might Mhmm. Help their creativity. So I can 147 00:05:05,365 --> 00:05:06,725 give you a good example of that too 148 00:05:06,725 --> 00:05:08,985 is when I started at Fast Company 149 00:05:09,365 --> 00:05:11,285 over seven years ago, their way of design 150 00:05:11,285 --> 00:05:13,064 was very structured. Right? 151 00:05:13,399 --> 00:05:15,800 And which made sense, like, when you like, 152 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,199 I think about structure. I think about, like, 153 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:20,439 technology and it like, visually, it it kinda 154 00:05:20,439 --> 00:05:21,979 made sense. But I 155 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:23,879 wanted to kind of embrace a little bit 156 00:05:23,879 --> 00:05:26,535 of, like, chaos in our creativity and, like, 157 00:05:26,774 --> 00:05:28,295 go back going back to this idea of, 158 00:05:28,295 --> 00:05:30,455 like, having a brand without having a brand. 159 00:05:30,455 --> 00:05:32,214 Right? So, like, I wanted to shake up 160 00:05:32,214 --> 00:05:33,574 the way we would approach things, and I 161 00:05:33,574 --> 00:05:34,955 had a lot of people here 162 00:05:35,334 --> 00:05:37,654 that had been doing things the same way 163 00:05:37,654 --> 00:05:39,509 for a long period of time. They were 164 00:05:39,509 --> 00:05:41,269 saying things like, I don't wanna change the 165 00:05:41,269 --> 00:05:42,709 way things are. Or maybe it was it 166 00:05:42,709 --> 00:05:44,649 was just implied in Mhmm. 167 00:05:44,949 --> 00:05:45,449 Mannerisms, 168 00:05:45,910 --> 00:05:47,910 how many versions of a design they had 169 00:05:47,910 --> 00:05:50,870 shared. But over time, what happened was as 170 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:53,029 I helped guide people to, like, you know, 171 00:05:53,029 --> 00:05:55,285 try these new design solutions, I could see 172 00:05:55,285 --> 00:05:56,904 that people started to feel more energized. 173 00:05:57,365 --> 00:05:59,045 The most important thing is to to take 174 00:05:59,045 --> 00:06:00,884 a step and explain why this change is 175 00:06:00,884 --> 00:06:02,665 happening. If if if a situation 176 00:06:03,045 --> 00:06:05,205 sucks, if you say, like, I know this 177 00:06:05,205 --> 00:06:07,064 sucks, and I know you don't like it. 178 00:06:07,125 --> 00:06:08,970 You know? But, like, because it it it 179 00:06:08,970 --> 00:06:10,729 shows that you're human and that and that 180 00:06:10,729 --> 00:06:12,889 you under that that it's it's a real 181 00:06:12,889 --> 00:06:14,669 situation and that you're not just 182 00:06:14,970 --> 00:06:15,629 a cyborg 183 00:06:15,930 --> 00:06:18,649 delivering any kind of, like, orders. Help them 184 00:06:18,649 --> 00:06:21,425 see and understand how it's gonna benefit them. 185 00:06:21,425 --> 00:06:22,944 And and a quick thing I can always 186 00:06:22,944 --> 00:06:25,105 say to a team member is, like, this 187 00:06:25,105 --> 00:06:27,345 will be great in your portfolio. Right? Like, 188 00:06:27,345 --> 00:06:29,504 you know, because there's creative There's a little 189 00:06:29,504 --> 00:06:31,425 buy in there. There's there's some buy in. 190 00:06:31,425 --> 00:06:33,345 There's gonna be work that they do that, 191 00:06:33,345 --> 00:06:35,185 like, that we all do as creatives that's 192 00:06:35,185 --> 00:06:37,240 great for our portfolio portfolio. And then there's 193 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,919 gonna be work that, like, we're like, this 194 00:06:38,919 --> 00:06:41,319 is this is crap. Right? And so it's 195 00:06:41,319 --> 00:06:42,959 to, you know, it's called what it is. 196 00:06:43,159 --> 00:06:46,120 Very inspirational. Right? I mean, you clearly come 197 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,099 across as a really nice guy. Thanks. 198 00:06:50,524 --> 00:06:52,464 I've seen you present. You come across 199 00:06:52,845 --> 00:06:54,545 with hundreds of people. 200 00:06:54,925 --> 00:06:56,464 It's your worst day, 201 00:06:56,925 --> 00:06:58,605 and it has to happen. And one of 202 00:06:58,605 --> 00:07:00,764 the things that we really are focusing on 203 00:07:00,764 --> 00:07:03,009 now is how do you handle that on 204 00:07:03,009 --> 00:07:05,250 your day where you're off? It's just not 205 00:07:05,250 --> 00:07:07,409 your best day. What what suggestions do you 206 00:07:07,409 --> 00:07:09,169 have for yourself and as a leader? I 207 00:07:09,169 --> 00:07:10,610 have a weekly one on one with my 208 00:07:10,610 --> 00:07:12,930 boss, and he might ask me, and this 209 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:14,289 has happened in the past where, you know, 210 00:07:14,289 --> 00:07:16,129 how's the cover going? You know? And, like, 211 00:07:16,129 --> 00:07:19,264 we're we're two weeks from deadline. We've chosen 212 00:07:19,264 --> 00:07:20,865 a photo for the cover. I now need 213 00:07:20,865 --> 00:07:22,485 to design it and, like, basically 214 00:07:22,944 --> 00:07:25,745 have that burst of creativity that, like, you 215 00:07:25,745 --> 00:07:27,665 know, makes a Fast Company cover what it 216 00:07:27,665 --> 00:07:29,425 is. So there are times when my boss 217 00:07:29,425 --> 00:07:30,785 asked me, and I'll just tell him, like, 218 00:07:30,785 --> 00:07:32,004 I'm not feeling inspired. 219 00:07:32,490 --> 00:07:35,290 You know? The the quote, unquote muse hasn't 220 00:07:35,290 --> 00:07:37,209 hasn't hit me yet, but, like, I will 221 00:07:37,209 --> 00:07:38,029 get it done. 222 00:07:38,649 --> 00:07:40,110 And I think that it's like, 223 00:07:40,810 --> 00:07:41,310 he, 224 00:07:41,689 --> 00:07:44,329 you know, he inspires me to be honest 225 00:07:44,329 --> 00:07:45,069 with him, 226 00:07:45,395 --> 00:07:47,875 and I inspire my team to be honest 227 00:07:47,875 --> 00:07:49,074 with me when I'll just ask, how are 228 00:07:49,074 --> 00:07:51,335 you? Having that kind of dialogue and honesty 229 00:07:51,555 --> 00:07:53,795 with your boss and your leader is really 230 00:07:53,795 --> 00:07:55,795 important. It's like, I feel comfortable saying to 231 00:07:55,795 --> 00:07:57,715 my boss, like, it's it's not happening. It's 232 00:07:57,715 --> 00:07:59,715 not happening right now. Because I I think 233 00:07:59,715 --> 00:08:00,694 I think that shows 234 00:08:01,289 --> 00:08:03,449 confidence in in saying it's not happening right 235 00:08:03,449 --> 00:08:03,949 now. 236 00:08:05,050 --> 00:08:07,129 We spend a lot of time with this 237 00:08:07,129 --> 00:08:07,949 big discussion. 238 00:08:08,889 --> 00:08:11,470 You're describing a very confident leader 239 00:08:11,930 --> 00:08:14,409 as you yourself use that word. Right? Yep. 240 00:08:14,409 --> 00:08:16,405 Where does it come from? You know, you 241 00:08:16,405 --> 00:08:18,805 mentioned earlier, and I'm very flattered. You said, 242 00:08:18,805 --> 00:08:20,245 like, I'm, you know, a good public speaker. 243 00:08:20,245 --> 00:08:22,245 And I wasn't always a good public speaker. 244 00:08:22,245 --> 00:08:23,785 I was a terrible public speaker 245 00:08:24,085 --> 00:08:25,705 even when I was in my twenties. 246 00:08:26,165 --> 00:08:27,764 You have to bomb through a little bit. 247 00:08:27,764 --> 00:08:28,965 Like, you have to you have to earn 248 00:08:28,965 --> 00:08:32,000 confidence. You don't just like, people can be 249 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,559 cocky. Right? And that's not earned. That's faking 250 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,659 it, but you you have to earn confidence. 251 00:08:36,879 --> 00:08:38,720 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think in 252 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,799 my in my earlier years as a designer 253 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:42,559 and even as a creative director, I was 254 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,559 cocky. And I fell on my face because 255 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,495 of it Seven years later, we're, like, I 256 00:08:46,495 --> 00:08:48,175 will start a project and say, like, you 257 00:08:48,175 --> 00:08:51,075 know, what what's inspiring you? What's your idea? 258 00:08:51,215 --> 00:08:52,495 But I know that at at the end 259 00:08:52,495 --> 00:08:55,134 of the day, like, we'll create something great 260 00:08:55,134 --> 00:08:56,975 because my team will be inspired. You know, 261 00:08:56,975 --> 00:08:58,815 every individual wants to put their fingerprints on 262 00:08:58,815 --> 00:09:00,629 something. We all wanna be involved in something. 263 00:09:00,870 --> 00:09:02,169 And I know that, like, 264 00:09:02,470 --> 00:09:04,470 through the decisions I make, you know, when 265 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:06,470 I'm working with my team on whatever their 266 00:09:06,470 --> 00:09:07,690 vision is on something, 267 00:09:08,230 --> 00:09:10,789 my my fingerprint will come through at the 268 00:09:10,789 --> 00:09:12,230 end of the day. Right? But it's like 269 00:09:12,230 --> 00:09:12,730 having 270 00:09:13,144 --> 00:09:14,764 trusted that'll happen. This is how it leaks 271 00:09:15,065 --> 00:09:18,105 confidence. Right? You just exude it. So what's 272 00:09:18,105 --> 00:09:20,264 what's the thing you wish that leaders would 273 00:09:20,264 --> 00:09:21,165 do more of? 274 00:09:21,544 --> 00:09:23,465 What's the one thing you've learned when you're 275 00:09:23,465 --> 00:09:25,225 at the leaders table and you're like, why 276 00:09:25,225 --> 00:09:26,845 don't these people just 277 00:09:27,289 --> 00:09:28,589 what? Fill in the blank. 278 00:09:28,970 --> 00:09:31,610 I wish leaders, especially when you start a 279 00:09:31,610 --> 00:09:33,289 job, and I've tried to do this especially 280 00:09:33,289 --> 00:09:35,049 with younger team members, is ask where do 281 00:09:35,049 --> 00:09:36,809 you want your next job to be? Like, 282 00:09:36,809 --> 00:09:39,929 to be honest about like, we all know 283 00:09:39,929 --> 00:09:41,549 you don't plan to be here forever. 284 00:09:42,825 --> 00:09:44,904 Right? But, like, if we can be honest 285 00:09:44,904 --> 00:09:46,184 about that and what kind of work do 286 00:09:46,184 --> 00:09:48,105 you wanna get, what experience do you wanna 287 00:09:48,105 --> 00:09:50,264 get out of the job creates, you know, 288 00:09:50,264 --> 00:09:51,865 a little bit of a ladder and a 289 00:09:51,865 --> 00:09:53,884 growth plan, but, like, a very conversational, 290 00:09:54,425 --> 00:09:56,184 honest growth plan, not like, you know, what 291 00:09:56,184 --> 00:09:58,184 are my KPIs for the next six months? 292 00:09:58,184 --> 00:10:00,480 Like, know, like, having that conversation about where 293 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,320 do you want to be. You know, for 294 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:03,440 example, like, I have, 295 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,919 we have a design fellowship here at Fast 296 00:10:05,919 --> 00:10:06,980 Company. So it's basically, 297 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,000 you come you graduate college, you join us 298 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:10,820 for a year, 299 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,254 and I will help you get your 300 00:10:14,715 --> 00:10:17,195 first job after Fast Company. And I've and 301 00:10:17,195 --> 00:10:19,115 I've written I've written a curriculum for that 302 00:10:19,115 --> 00:10:21,115 and, like, a syllabus for that. And I 303 00:10:21,115 --> 00:10:23,835 have my current design fellow who's three months 304 00:10:23,835 --> 00:10:25,835 in now. My last one on one with 305 00:10:25,835 --> 00:10:29,019 her last week, I asked her just now 306 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:29,740 write 307 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:30,860 your resume 308 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,399 experience from Fast Company, even though you're just 309 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:35,240 three months in. Because what we can do 310 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:36,519 from that is we can look at that 311 00:10:36,519 --> 00:10:39,160 and see what experience do you have and 312 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,264 what experience do you need. Right? So it 313 00:10:41,264 --> 00:10:43,184 it it becomes, you know, a documentation of 314 00:10:43,184 --> 00:10:44,784 what you've done, but it also becomes almost 315 00:10:44,784 --> 00:10:47,825 like a creative, like, manifestation exercise where you 316 00:10:47,825 --> 00:10:50,464 could say, okay. Like, I wanna do branding 317 00:10:50,464 --> 00:10:52,084 for the next Fast Company podcast. 318 00:10:52,670 --> 00:10:54,430 Or, like, I wanna help you, Mike, with, 319 00:10:54,430 --> 00:10:56,670 like, the next script for the next video 320 00:10:56,670 --> 00:10:58,029 that you're working on. It's like what I 321 00:10:58,029 --> 00:10:59,950 do with my kids, Mike. I'm like, what 322 00:10:59,950 --> 00:11:01,070 what do you want me to do? Like, 323 00:11:01,070 --> 00:11:02,430 what kind of mother am I gonna be 324 00:11:02,430 --> 00:11:04,430 at this next phase of their life? Right? 325 00:11:04,430 --> 00:11:06,210 Like, where am I taking the journey? 326 00:11:06,925 --> 00:11:09,024 Right. So you've been incredibly, 327 00:11:09,485 --> 00:11:11,805 gracious and and generous with your time. I 328 00:11:11,805 --> 00:11:13,565 think I'm gonna end with the hardest question 329 00:11:13,565 --> 00:11:14,705 though. Oh, okay. 330 00:11:15,485 --> 00:11:17,665 One of the themes we've been looking about 331 00:11:17,725 --> 00:11:20,225 that has changed in leadership over my 332 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:23,120 thirty five years of being in is really 333 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,680 this mission and passion, right? The connection to 334 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,200 what we do for a living. Like, what 335 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,680 does it matter? How are we fixing the 336 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:30,180 world? 337 00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:32,580 And do leaders feel that burden? 338 00:11:33,875 --> 00:11:35,875 Is that important to you? Is it important 339 00:11:35,875 --> 00:11:38,115 to you to be connected to a mission 340 00:11:38,115 --> 00:11:38,774 and passion? 341 00:11:39,714 --> 00:11:41,554 Is it something you think leaders should take 342 00:11:41,554 --> 00:11:43,794 on, or do you think that it's irrelevant 343 00:11:43,794 --> 00:11:45,634 you should just do your job? I can 344 00:11:45,634 --> 00:11:47,475 say that every leader should have should be 345 00:11:47,475 --> 00:11:49,429 purpose driven. I will say that I am 346 00:11:49,429 --> 00:11:51,509 purpose driven. I wasn't always purpose driven. You 347 00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:54,149 know, when I got into this industry twenty 348 00:11:54,149 --> 00:11:56,470 something years ago, I mean, in this graphic 349 00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:58,549 design industry Mhmm. I just, like, wanted to 350 00:11:58,549 --> 00:11:59,929 make cool looking things. 351 00:12:00,335 --> 00:12:00,835 Right? 352 00:12:01,215 --> 00:12:02,681 I'm I'm I'm I'm totally I'm totally seriously 353 00:12:03,054 --> 00:12:04,035 sound very well. 354 00:12:04,654 --> 00:12:07,134 I loved drawing comics as a kid. I 355 00:12:07,134 --> 00:12:09,455 wasn't the brightest high school student. My parents' 356 00:12:09,455 --> 00:12:11,054 only mandate was you have to go to 357 00:12:11,054 --> 00:12:12,035 college because 358 00:12:12,575 --> 00:12:13,075 college 359 00:12:13,649 --> 00:12:15,889 teaches you how to learn. Right? And that 360 00:12:15,889 --> 00:12:17,009 was that was the only thing. And it 361 00:12:17,009 --> 00:12:18,449 was it was really great advice, and I'm 362 00:12:18,449 --> 00:12:19,889 gonna tie you to what I'm gonna say 363 00:12:19,889 --> 00:12:21,329 in a minute. But they you know, they 364 00:12:21,329 --> 00:12:23,169 said college teaches you how to learn, and 365 00:12:23,169 --> 00:12:25,169 it made me a forever student. I signed 366 00:12:25,169 --> 00:12:28,470 a contract to teach college in February 2020. 367 00:12:29,195 --> 00:12:31,035 And then and I was so excited to 368 00:12:31,035 --> 00:12:32,014 teach in person 369 00:12:32,475 --> 00:12:33,535 because, like, 370 00:12:34,075 --> 00:12:36,154 my mom is a retired high school teacher. 371 00:12:36,154 --> 00:12:37,835 And if you have a teacher, like, especially 372 00:12:37,835 --> 00:12:38,875 if you're one of your parents or a 373 00:12:38,875 --> 00:12:40,715 teacher, they always want you to teach to 374 00:12:40,715 --> 00:12:41,934 some degree. So 375 00:12:42,450 --> 00:12:44,820 I I signed that contract, you know, March 376 00:12:44,820 --> 00:12:46,929 2020, pandemic, and then I had to learn 377 00:12:46,929 --> 00:12:49,750 how to teach, like, over Zoom, basically. 378 00:12:50,210 --> 00:12:53,750 And it it changed my perspective on, 379 00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:54,550 like, 380 00:12:54,904 --> 00:12:57,384 purpose, where, like, I saw that, okay, my 381 00:12:57,384 --> 00:12:57,884 students 382 00:12:58,264 --> 00:13:00,264 now, who don't even wanna turn their cameras 383 00:13:00,264 --> 00:13:03,304 on Zoom, are feeling burnt out. They're telling 384 00:13:03,304 --> 00:13:05,065 me how they don't feel creative. Like, when 385 00:13:05,065 --> 00:13:06,425 I was in college, I never would have 386 00:13:06,425 --> 00:13:07,565 told a professor, 387 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:10,659 hey. I don't feel creative today. Right? But 388 00:13:10,659 --> 00:13:12,759 that's where I kinda started to feel, okay, 389 00:13:13,139 --> 00:13:14,120 sense of purpose 390 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:16,259 where my role is not just to help 391 00:13:16,259 --> 00:13:17,079 people, like, 392 00:13:17,379 --> 00:13:19,779 make things look cool like I wanted to 393 00:13:19,779 --> 00:13:21,794 do twenty something years ago. It's to help 394 00:13:21,794 --> 00:13:24,274 people feel more creative because that's where, like, 395 00:13:24,274 --> 00:13:26,595 they wanna, like, get up every single day 396 00:13:26,595 --> 00:13:29,315 and do the thing that they do. So, 397 00:13:29,315 --> 00:13:31,235 like, that's what inspired me to, like, write 398 00:13:31,235 --> 00:13:33,475 my book, Creative Endurance. That's what inspired me 399 00:13:33,475 --> 00:13:35,879 to continue to wanna teach. And if I 400 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:38,120 can energize people to be more creative, my 401 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,059 team at Fast Company will do better work. 402 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,200 You know, Mike, thank you. I can tell 403 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,039 you would you like to know my takeaway 404 00:13:44,039 --> 00:13:44,779 from today? 405 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:45,580 Sure. 406 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,514 I love the fact that when I'm listening 407 00:13:48,514 --> 00:13:49,634 to you and I felt it when I 408 00:13:49,634 --> 00:13:51,394 heard you speak, and we talked about you 409 00:13:51,394 --> 00:13:53,514 behind your back, of course, as we Okay. 410 00:13:53,794 --> 00:13:54,534 The workshop 411 00:13:54,914 --> 00:13:56,674 and had attended, as you know, so many 412 00:13:56,674 --> 00:13:58,434 workshops. You go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, 413 00:13:58,434 --> 00:13:59,975 boom, because that's the way it is. 414 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:01,620 I think the takeaway, 415 00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:04,080 and even more now I'm hearing you, is 416 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,759 if we could create leaders who are more 417 00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:06,259 honest. 418 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,840 Yeah. Honesty is honesty is important. I think 419 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:10,980 I probably get 420 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:13,919 honesty my honesty from growing up in Long 421 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:16,065 Island. We were very, very direct with each 422 00:14:16,065 --> 00:14:18,544 other for better or worse. Right. But yeah. 423 00:14:18,544 --> 00:14:20,804 Yeah. Honesty is a great, great, best way 424 00:14:21,424 --> 00:14:24,245 to huge story, and it's great to hear 425 00:14:24,544 --> 00:14:26,865 that people that are as incredibly successful as 426 00:14:26,865 --> 00:14:27,365 you 427 00:14:27,929 --> 00:14:29,710 have found that path 428 00:14:30,889 --> 00:14:32,350 continuing to be honest. 429 00:14:32,730 --> 00:14:35,370 Yeah. So I particularly wanna thank you. I 430 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:36,970 know you don't have to be here today. 431 00:14:36,970 --> 00:14:38,169 It means a lot to us. It means 432 00:14:38,169 --> 00:14:39,230 a lot to our audience. 433 00:14:39,785 --> 00:14:41,565 Really wanna thank you so much for sharing. 434 00:14:41,945 --> 00:14:43,945 We're gonna put a link to your bio 435 00:14:43,945 --> 00:14:46,684 and to your to your book. So 436 00:14:46,985 --> 00:14:48,665 really thank you so much for taking the 437 00:14:48,665 --> 00:14:50,585 time. Great. Thank you so much, Wendy. This 438 00:14:50,585 --> 00:14:51,325 was a pleasure. 439 00:14:58,690 --> 00:15:00,370 Thanks for listening to this is your job 440 00:15:00,370 --> 00:15:03,090 now, produced by me, Kai. If this episode 441 00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:04,769 made you think or made you feel, we 442 00:15:04,769 --> 00:15:06,529 hope it also made you realize you don't 443 00:15:06,529 --> 00:15:08,450 have to figure this out all alone. Leadership 444 00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:10,764 today is about presence, not perfection. To learn 445 00:15:10,764 --> 00:15:13,085 more, follow Wendy Wollner on LinkedIn, subscribe to 446 00:15:13,085 --> 00:15:15,325 Balancing Life's Issues on YouTube, or stream the 447 00:15:15,325 --> 00:15:17,565 podcast wherever you listen. Because if you're leading 448 00:15:17,565 --> 00:15:19,965 people, this is your job now. Anything else 449 00:15:19,965 --> 00:15:20,785 to add, Miles?