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Welcome to Balancing Life's Issues, the podcast show

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that tells it like it is. No fluff,

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no sugarcoating,

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just some real talk about mental health, workplace

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culture, caregiving.

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Whether you're here to learn, vent, or just

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nod, we've got you covered. We're diving into

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messy, unbelievable,

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frustrating, and downright weird parts of diversity, equity,

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and inclusion today with insights that actually matter.

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No corporate buzzwords here. No boring lectures. Just

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straight up bold, unfiltered conversations

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that hit where they need to. So expect

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some expert guests, some real stories, and maybe

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a few hot takes that'll make you rethink

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everything.

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Buckle up. This is not your average podcast.

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It's the one you didn't know you need.

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Let's get into it.

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Welcome to Ruchi Jala and a great conversation

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about DEI.

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Ruchi comes to us after having just left

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as a chief diversity, equity, inclusion officer at

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Element Health

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and decades of experience

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in the DEI.

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So thank you today for sharing all of

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your wisdom and your past corporate experience.

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So,

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Mucci, from a really high level, tell me

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tell me what you think of DEI.

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I believe that there is a real business

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value and impact

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to DEI when done right, and that's sort

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of the

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asterisk when done right.

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And it is amazing, Ruchi, because you come

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from both worlds. Right?

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So,

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if let's take a step back for a

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minute

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and just acknowledge

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that it was last year, not that long

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ago, where the CEO of UnitedHealthcare

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was assassinated.

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That was prior to President Trump coming in.

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So you come from the health care industry.

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That was a shocking fact that 40% of

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Americans

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actually thought that was a good thing. So

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just on that, just from your years of

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experience with elephants, what words of wisdom do

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you have about that?

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Well, I'll tell you it was,

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the disparities in health care were what brought

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me to the organization in the first place.

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I mean, I joined Elevance Health in

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2021,

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really

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because what I saw in COVID was astounding

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in terms of the the disparate impact to

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certain communities, black and brown communities across the

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country. But, you know, from a socioeconomic

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standpoint,

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it affects people of all backgrounds. And just

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to see that,

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you know, for for all of the good

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that we were doing to get the the

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vaccines out and to get care where we

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knew we were still missing huge gaps of

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people.

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And when I joined this organization,

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it was about health equity. It was about

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understanding

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that,

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everyone has the right to to health care.

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And,

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and I believed that. And so,

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that comes from somewhere. It comes from people

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feeling like,

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they just can't get ahead, that they just

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can't get a fair shot. And so I

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understand. I don't agree with, but I understand

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that anger.

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So we had that horrific

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shooting.

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We have this horrible and then

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we have President Trump. It wouldn't be a

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really good conversation without DI for you to

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say first,

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as quickly as short, like, do you still

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believe in DI?

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Even where we are today, but why? Sell

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sell so let's pretend I'm the worst critic.

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Right? It doesn't work. I don't know. It's

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it's favoritism.

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Like, all the horrible things that you have

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heard,

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convince me that YDEI should still exist.

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Yeah. You know, happy to. I you know,

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one one thing I'll say is the the

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resistance is not new.

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Might be repackaged in a certain way, but

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it's not new.

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There are,

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misperceptions

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about what DEI is and what it isn't.

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So the first thing that we do is

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look at, you know, break down these words,

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diversity, which means difference,

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uniqueness.

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Everyone

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has something different about them, and therefore,

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diversity means including,

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all of those differences.

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Equity is looking at fairness.

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You know, fairness is something that everyone should

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strive to achieve. And then inclusion.

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Does everyone feel like they belong?

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All all of those things in concept are

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things that people can generally

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agree on. They can generally agree on. Where

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the difference comes in

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is feeling like it's a zero sum game.

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If you win,

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I lose.

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Right? And that's not the intent. That is

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not the intent, nor is it the outcome

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of diversity, equity and inclusion. And so what

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we look at are things that,

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have been brought forward

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by really good strategies around DEI.

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Accessibility is a word that we didn't talk

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about in this sort of acronym.

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But you think about how many times you

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go through an airport and there's closed captioning

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on, where do you think that came from?

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It wasn't, you know, in terms of understanding,

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you know, that this person is gonna get

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something and this person isn't. It is how

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do we bring people to the same level

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so that everyone has access to the same

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opportunities?

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And in this case, it is I may

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not be able to hear what's happening, but

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now I can read it because those senses

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are available to me.

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Flexible,

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flexible leave and and policies. You know, we're

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we're in this debate, you know, before we've

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been talking about these executive orders about return

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to office.

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Return to office at its core is, you

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know, if we look at the outcome of

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what you're trying to work on, do the

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means of production really matter? Does it matter

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where I do this work as long as

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the outcome

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is achieved? That's what DEI looks at. It

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looks at, you know, where might be different

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ways, different thoughts and perspectives,

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and

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perspectives, different backgrounds in order to get You're

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you're having this very nice conversation that makes

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perfect sense, right? Now let's just stop for

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a second and say within minutes of people

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dying in a plane crash,

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the president of Our United States gets up

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and says, Well, we know who's to blame.

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DEI.

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That's the world we're living in today, right?

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That's the reality that the president of The

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United States

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is blaming

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the the horrific death of many people, children,

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on DEI.

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Yes. What so in my experience,

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it is hard to get to,

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a conversation,

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when we can't start with some level of

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agreement. And so what we have to do

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is recognize we are in a polarized

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conversation. We are in polarized situation,

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that we need to come to some level

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of common ground. And so understanding that there

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are some things

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that,

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people can agree on is where you start.

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I agree. I mean, coming to,

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talk about a tragedy in that sense when

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the overwhelming,

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need for the nation was to heal,

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right, is is to grieve together

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and to suddenly say, hey. I know who

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the enemy is or what the enemy is,

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and it's this without having any information. I

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mean, it's not what I need to know.

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But am I the only one that processes

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that information as nothing less than racist? That

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that was a blatantly racist comment that he

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made?

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I think I think racism could be part

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of it. But, you know, what I heard

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also is that he was looking at,

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mental illness

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and individuals with disabilities

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and,

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suggesting, not not merely just suggesting, but that

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there was a lowering of standards,

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which

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has no

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basis in fact,

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and that it might not necessarily have been

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just about one aspect of those,

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of race, but really just looking at well,

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you've you've you've clearly had somebody in here

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that has,

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you know, some some disability, and therefore,

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you have

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put people at risk,

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which prompted the, you know, Association

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of Americans with Disabilities to come out and

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say, wait wait a second.

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You you can't blame this tragedy on individuals

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with disabilities. And,

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you know, in terms of what we look

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at from a DEI standpoint, I know you

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all know this. It is like, how do

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we ensure that everyone has the same

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access to apply to these opportunities? It doesn't

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mean

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that we start deciding that,

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we don't need certain level of standard education,

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mental acuity, whatever it is, to be able

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to do the role that is keeping people

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safe, that is keeping people

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to be able to take these flights

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every day. I mean Right. But what I

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hear from you is this very calm, reasonable,

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super intelligent,

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well educated spoken woman. Right? I hear that

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here,

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everything you're saying.

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And I feel like sometimes, and forgive me

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because, you know, I only get you for

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a few minutes, so I'm going right for

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it. I sometimes feel like now we we're

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we're still trying to be reasonable and have

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these reasonable conversations

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with these reasonable,

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you know, things that people should understand

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in a world where it's just derogatory name

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slowing and and it's very catchy and fast.

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I feel like it's this war, and we're

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losing it.

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Yeah.

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You know, I I hear that.

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It's it's, I mean, it's been frustrating for

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me, and it's not something that

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not being in,

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a workplace where I'm able to talk to

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people who have that kind of opinion

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about DEI

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is,

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is difficult. Because if I was in that

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role, that's the conversation I would be having

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with with, employees that felt that way. But

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the first thing that I'd be asking is,

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you know, tell me more about where that's

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coming from.

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Help me understand.

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You know, I can't be anything but calm.

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I mean, that is that is,

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how I'm able to then get to a

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conversation as opposed to a disagreement or an

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argument. Of course. But let's just stop for

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a minute, though, and acknowledge that an executive

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order was signed,

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which bans DEI from the federal government.

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So this conversation that you're all listening to

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is no longer allowed

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in the federal government.

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So for those of us that have spent

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all our years, like the the those of

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us that

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are we that believe in education,

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that has been removed from the federal government.

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They are no longer allowed to be educated

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in this space, and that is number one

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what terrifies me. Without education, there's no growth.

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So we did learn last week from Terry,

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who was Obama's speechwriter,

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that if we're gonna do something well and

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we're gonna continue our mission, Ruchi, I'm gonna

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ask you to end our podcast

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with a message of hope.

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And I gotta tell you,

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I'm pretty not feeling very hopeful right now,

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so I'm gonna be your worst nightmare in

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that I'm walking I'm waking up this morning

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with a real sense of I'm first generation

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American.

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My mom is feeling it horribly.

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So I'm I'm your toughest person to convince

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me that there is hope today.

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I will just start with,

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I

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I understand,

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that it it it feels dire. I I

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understand. There has been a

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a flurry of attacks

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on us. I understand, and I acknowledge it.

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I also wanna say we've been here before.

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We've been here. It looks different. It's we

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have been here before, and we have come

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out the other side.

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And so,

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you know, I

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I I can

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I will say that if I was in

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an organization where this was happening, I can

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wait you out

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because I know

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that this is the work

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that is necessary

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for a company

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to thrive? I believe that in my soul.

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That was why I do this work. The

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money helps, but it is not the driver

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in why I do this work. It is

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because I fundamentally believe that when a company

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does this right,

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everything follows.

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Customer satisfaction,

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profits, new markets, because you are understanding your

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customer in ways in which you're able to

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serve them better. And so I can wait

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you out. You can throw up all of

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the challenges you want.

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In the end,

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I know

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that we will circle back around to the

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point at which I can start doing the

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work again.

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This has been a production of Balancing Life's

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Issues with your hosts, Kai Sorensen and Wendy

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Wallner, produced by me, Kai.

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Rate, leave a review, and subscribe to the

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podcast wherever you listen so you can get

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brand new episodes as they drop. Got an

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idea for the show? Email me, kai@balancinglife'sissues.com.

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Anything to add, Miles?