1 00:00:00,245 --> 00:00:02,755 - Don't be afraid to be connecting with people. 2 00:00:03,135 --> 00:00:04,435 It may be stopping by. 3 00:00:04,575 --> 00:00:07,475 It may be, um, making some banana bread 4 00:00:07,475 --> 00:00:08,955 and sending it over to your neighbor. 5 00:00:09,465 --> 00:00:10,715 Connect with people. 6 00:00:17,625 --> 00:00:20,115 - Welcome to Balancing Life's issues, the podcast. 7 00:00:20,375 --> 00:00:23,315 I'm your host, Kai, and I'm here with CEO of BLI. 8 00:00:23,325 --> 00:00:24,835 Wendy Wollner. How are you doing today? 9 00:00:25,415 --> 00:00:27,875 - I'm good. Thanks, Kai. Nice to chat with you. 10 00:00:28,265 --> 00:00:31,075 - Yeah, as always. Um, you know, coming off some, 11 00:00:31,145 --> 00:00:32,835 some pretty anxious times. 12 00:00:32,995 --> 00:00:34,555 I had, I kind of wanted to run a by you real quick, 13 00:00:34,555 --> 00:00:35,555 so I think I need some advice. 14 00:00:36,055 --> 00:00:39,395 We flew to Nebraska to see family, uh, 15 00:00:39,545 --> 00:00:41,995 took our now five month old with us. 16 00:00:43,015 --> 00:00:47,195 And the amount of anxiety I was feeling going into 17 00:00:47,195 --> 00:00:50,875 that trip, um, I mean, it's, it's already challenging 18 00:00:51,215 --> 00:00:53,235 to go home, you know, for an extended period of time. 19 00:00:53,475 --> 00:00:54,555 Although I love my family, I 20 00:00:54,555 --> 00:00:55,675 think that's challenging for anybody. 21 00:00:55,935 --> 00:00:57,395 But bring our infant with us. 22 00:00:58,815 --> 00:01:01,595 The scenarios going through my head on 23 00:01:01,595 --> 00:01:04,755 what could possibly go wrong from turbulence 24 00:01:04,755 --> 00:01:08,635 that would've make me drop my baby to a screaming child 25 00:01:08,695 --> 00:01:10,915 for three hours left me in. 26 00:01:11,875 --> 00:01:13,035 I mean, I don't wanna use the word lightly, 27 00:01:13,035 --> 00:01:14,635 but it felt like close to a panic attack. 28 00:01:14,935 --> 00:01:18,515 Um, and I, I really had to, I really had to dig deep. 29 00:01:18,975 --> 00:01:21,755 Um, and fortunately Miles was perfect. 30 00:01:22,315 --> 00:01:25,235 flying there and back and it's like, I don't know. 31 00:01:25,235 --> 00:01:28,115 You're a mom. Like, what? How, how do you navigate that? 32 00:01:28,225 --> 00:01:29,995 - Well, first of all, let's just validate something, right. 33 00:01:30,055 --> 00:01:32,515 The last time you were in Nebraska, you weren't a father. 34 00:01:33,055 --> 00:01:34,355 - No, I wasn't . 35 00:01:34,495 --> 00:01:37,835 We were telling, we were telling people last Christmas was 36 00:01:37,835 --> 00:01:39,275 when we were back last, that totally 37 00:01:39,275 --> 00:01:40,275 - Different. 38 00:01:40,275 --> 00:01:40,915 Right? Right. Even a father to be, 39 00:01:40,945 --> 00:01:42,035 even a mother to be, right? 40 00:01:42,035 --> 00:01:43,435 Mm-Hmm. , there's a whole different thing. 41 00:01:44,055 --> 00:01:47,275 So your life changed so dramatically 42 00:01:47,945 --> 00:01:51,155 that every single thing you could think of was 43 00:01:52,015 --> 00:01:54,395 all the different roles, was things you couldn't possibly 44 00:01:54,395 --> 00:01:56,555 predict because you haven't been a father before. 45 00:01:56,765 --> 00:01:59,115 Right. And by the way, the best part about being a father, 46 00:01:59,135 --> 00:02:00,435 if you choose to have another child, 47 00:02:00,505 --> 00:02:02,435 it's totally different again. So you gotta 48 00:02:02,675 --> 00:02:02,955 - . Right. 49 00:02:03,575 --> 00:02:05,675 - But you know, what I think is so interesting about it is 50 00:02:05,675 --> 00:02:07,875 what you're talking about is everything we talk about here 51 00:02:07,895 --> 00:02:09,355 is living in uncertain times. 52 00:02:09,535 --> 00:02:10,635 Mm-Hmm. , that's one 53 00:02:10,635 --> 00:02:12,635 of the best things about being a parent, right? 54 00:02:12,765 --> 00:02:16,155 Every day you think I got it. I know it. I'm good. 55 00:02:16,545 --> 00:02:18,555 - Yeah. And speaking of, you know, 56 00:02:18,555 --> 00:02:22,275 we were on an important web call, uh, just just an hour ago, 57 00:02:22,415 --> 00:02:23,795 and who called daycare? 58 00:02:24,215 --> 00:02:26,955 Yep. Gotta pick that call up now. Right? 59 00:02:26,975 --> 00:02:28,515 That's not a, oh, there's gonna leave me 60 00:02:28,515 --> 00:02:29,555 a voicemail about billing. 61 00:02:29,555 --> 00:02:30,955 That's like something's wrong. Um, 62 00:02:31,015 --> 00:02:33,395 and Miles is struggling in the mornings over there. 63 00:02:33,465 --> 00:02:35,275 It's a new environment. He's not eating. 64 00:02:35,695 --> 00:02:37,635 So there's this whole other level Right. 65 00:02:37,635 --> 00:02:38,955 That we're kind of navigating. 66 00:02:39,375 --> 00:02:41,595 Um, and fortunately he's fine and they're wonderful. 67 00:02:42,095 --> 00:02:44,155 Um, and I just got the notification 68 00:02:44,355 --> 00:02:47,795 'cause I, as dad in 2023, there's an app 69 00:02:48,015 --> 00:02:50,995 and I get pinged when he finishes three ounces of milk. 70 00:02:51,015 --> 00:02:52,195 So now I feel better. Right. 71 00:02:52,535 --> 00:02:54,275 - And there's pros and cons to that. Sure. 72 00:02:54,335 --> 00:02:56,995 You know, there, that whole idea, I, 73 00:02:57,115 --> 00:03:00,005 I think what's really important is supporting the idea 74 00:03:00,075 --> 00:03:01,445 that we are gonna be anxious. 75 00:03:01,505 --> 00:03:04,125 And, you know, there's that running joke about my 76 00:03:04,125 --> 00:03:05,925 31-year-old, um, 77 00:03:06,035 --> 00:03:08,525 pinging me from the plane saying he's absolutely never, 78 00:03:08,525 --> 00:03:09,965 ever gonna make his connection 79 00:03:10,065 --> 00:03:12,485 and he's having a total panic attack on the flight. 80 00:03:12,505 --> 00:03:14,885 And I thought, it's no different if they're four months 81 00:03:15,065 --> 00:03:17,565 or 10 months or 31 years old. 82 00:03:17,565 --> 00:03:19,085 Right. That love and at and, 83 00:03:19,085 --> 00:03:21,485 and feeling about wanting to protect them. 84 00:03:21,485 --> 00:03:23,045 Mm-Hmm. . Um, and 85 00:03:23,045 --> 00:03:24,125 you know, Kai, this is pretty funny. 86 00:03:24,205 --> 00:03:25,365 I don't know if you know this, but I grew up 87 00:03:25,365 --> 00:03:27,085 with my mom, so lucky to have her. 88 00:03:27,085 --> 00:03:28,285 Yes. My grandmother. Mm-Hmm. 89 00:03:28,325 --> 00:03:29,565 , my great-grandmother 90 00:03:29,905 --> 00:03:31,725 and my great-great-grandmother. 91 00:03:32,895 --> 00:03:34,395 And I remember my great-grandmother, 92 00:03:34,435 --> 00:03:36,835 I was 10 years old when she passed away saying, 93 00:03:36,895 --> 00:03:38,275 get the babies and bring them here. 94 00:03:38,415 --> 00:03:39,475 And she was talking about my 95 00:03:39,475 --> 00:03:40,795 grandmother and my great-grandmother. 96 00:03:40,815 --> 00:03:43,675 Oh my gosh. And I was like, what are you doing, ? 97 00:03:44,055 --> 00:03:45,995 So I think the lesson to learn is to, 98 00:03:46,095 --> 00:03:48,155 to embrace anxiety for the rest of your life. 99 00:03:48,345 --> 00:03:50,275 - Yeah. Yeah. Um, to 100 00:03:50,275 --> 00:03:54,715 - Really make it friends and just make, not take it lightly, 101 00:03:55,055 --> 00:03:57,715 but to understand that it is part of it so it doesn't get 102 00:03:57,715 --> 00:03:59,435 to the place of the panic attack. Right. 103 00:03:59,695 --> 00:04:01,915 - But - Literally to embrace, like, 104 00:04:01,935 --> 00:04:03,435 I'm gonna be anxious when I go out to dinner, 105 00:04:03,435 --> 00:04:05,475 when I leave him, when I go to daycare, when I don't go 106 00:04:05,475 --> 00:04:07,475 to daycare, when when it snows, when it rains. 107 00:04:07,695 --> 00:04:10,075 It is literally part of this new world Yeah. 108 00:04:10,135 --> 00:04:13,675 Of how do I put my jacket on and how do I wear the anxiety? 109 00:04:14,265 --> 00:04:16,075 Then you can number it. Right, right. 110 00:04:16,615 --> 00:04:20,115 Is it a one anxiety or is it a like 59? And 111 00:04:20,115 --> 00:04:22,155 - You know, that that's like, it's a great segue into, 112 00:04:22,175 --> 00:04:23,595 you know, who we're talking to today 113 00:04:23,595 --> 00:04:26,635 because, you know, living an uncomfortable feeling, 114 00:04:26,935 --> 00:04:28,555 having a difficult conversation. 115 00:04:29,175 --> 00:04:31,115 Um, especially in this world we live in, 116 00:04:31,115 --> 00:04:33,315 where it seems like every time you turn on the 117 00:04:33,315 --> 00:04:34,515 news, it couldn't get any worse. 118 00:04:34,515 --> 00:04:35,795 Yeah. But that, it seems like 119 00:04:35,795 --> 00:04:37,355 that hole just keeps getting dug deeper. 120 00:04:37,935 --> 00:04:39,355 Um, so tell us a little bit about, 121 00:04:39,355 --> 00:04:40,795 about the guests you're gonna be speaking to. 122 00:04:40,895 --> 00:04:43,395 - You know, one of the best parts about my job is I get 123 00:04:43,395 --> 00:04:47,035 to hear are such amazing from such amazing experts. 124 00:04:47,375 --> 00:04:50,955 Um, and, and honestly, I'm been doing that for 30 years, 125 00:04:51,135 --> 00:04:55,315 but once in a blue moon, I get to listen to someone who is 126 00:04:55,315 --> 00:04:58,115 so knowledgeable and so kind and so compassionate 127 00:04:58,415 --> 00:05:01,755 and so helpful that it changes your life. 128 00:05:02,295 --> 00:05:04,875 And when I went into the session, um, 129 00:05:05,295 --> 00:05:06,595 it was a session about trauma 130 00:05:06,655 --> 00:05:08,075 and Megan was giving the speech 131 00:05:08,215 --> 00:05:10,595 and I was doing what I normally do. 132 00:05:10,735 --> 00:05:13,155 I'm doing the laptop, and I'm, I'm like, 133 00:05:13,155 --> 00:05:14,155 - Mm-Hmm. Multitasking 134 00:05:14,175 --> 00:05:15,275 - And like half listening. 135 00:05:15,635 --> 00:05:17,755 'cause I've taken how many trauma classes and, 136 00:05:18,295 --> 00:05:22,355 and she told the immediate story about her response 137 00:05:22,575 --> 00:05:26,115 and her feelings to the buffalo, uh, supermarket shooting. 138 00:05:26,695 --> 00:05:27,875 And I was riveted 139 00:05:28,215 --> 00:05:31,475 and my hand was up the entire time about 140 00:05:32,275 --> 00:05:35,995 learning about responses to trauma, to anxiety. 141 00:05:36,295 --> 00:05:39,955 Um, and I'm so grateful that she had a lot 142 00:05:39,955 --> 00:05:41,475 of patience for all my questions. 143 00:05:41,495 --> 00:05:43,555 And I'm even more grateful that she's decided 144 00:05:43,555 --> 00:05:45,075 to spend a few minutes with us today. 145 00:05:45,825 --> 00:05:47,915 - Yeah, I mean, that, that tells you everything you know, 146 00:05:47,915 --> 00:05:49,755 about how she felt about your questions, she decided 147 00:05:49,755 --> 00:05:51,035 to come on the podcast with you. 148 00:05:51,175 --> 00:05:54,235 So yeah, really, really looking forward to the interview. 149 00:05:54,455 --> 00:05:57,845 Um, so, you know, listeners, enjoy, enjoy the conversation 150 00:05:57,905 --> 00:05:59,805 and please, uh, send us comments. 151 00:06:00,385 --> 00:06:02,365 We love to hear your feedback on other kinds 152 00:06:02,365 --> 00:06:04,485 of conversations, uh, that we can be having. 153 00:06:04,665 --> 00:06:06,925 So enjoy the conversation with Megan Andrews. 154 00:06:20,865 --> 00:06:22,085 - Hey Megan, how are you today? 155 00:06:22,135 --> 00:06:23,645 Thank you so much for dropping by. 156 00:06:23,645 --> 00:06:24,725 It's like you're in my living room. 157 00:06:24,725 --> 00:06:27,205 Really appreciate chatting with you. How are you? I know, 158 00:06:27,245 --> 00:06:28,245 - I love it. 159 00:06:28,245 --> 00:06:30,485 Uh, I, you know, uh, technology's done wonderful things 160 00:06:30,665 --> 00:06:33,805 and it's, uh, allowed us to connect, um, across, 161 00:06:34,145 --> 00:06:36,845 across the air and miles and miles away. 162 00:06:37,065 --> 00:06:38,885 But, um, yeah, I'm thrilled to be here. 163 00:06:38,895 --> 00:06:40,405 Thank you for inviting me. 164 00:06:40,755 --> 00:06:42,285 - Yeah. So, you know, the world doesn't know 165 00:06:42,285 --> 00:06:43,885 how amazing you are, so would you take a minute 166 00:06:43,885 --> 00:06:45,125 and just introduce yourself? 167 00:06:45,185 --> 00:06:47,765 And I had the pleasure of listening to, to you speak, 168 00:06:47,765 --> 00:06:48,925 and it was really life changing. 169 00:06:49,145 --> 00:06:51,325 So, Meg, will you tell me a little bit about the work 170 00:06:51,325 --> 00:06:52,685 you're, uh, that you're doing? 171 00:06:52,995 --> 00:06:55,285 - Yeah. Um, my name is Megan Andrews. 172 00:06:55,345 --> 00:06:57,645 I'm a licensed clinical social worker, um, 173 00:06:57,825 --> 00:06:59,325 by training and by education. 174 00:06:59,505 --> 00:07:04,085 Uh, my experience includes, uh, over 30 years of experience 175 00:07:04,085 --> 00:07:07,485 as a clinician in the community, as well as, uh, 176 00:07:07,485 --> 00:07:11,685 as an educator, as I, uh, work as a, uh, 177 00:07:11,685 --> 00:07:14,605 faculty member over at an adjunct faculty member at the 178 00:07:14,605 --> 00:07:16,925 university, uh, school of social work, uh, 179 00:07:16,935 --> 00:07:20,445 where I was introduced to the, uh, concept 180 00:07:20,905 --> 00:07:23,485 of trauma-informed, uh, work 181 00:07:23,785 --> 00:07:26,245 and trauma-informed counseling, um, 182 00:07:26,265 --> 00:07:29,005 and really in the employee assistance business have brought 183 00:07:29,005 --> 00:07:31,805 that to companies, uh, bringing that concept, 184 00:07:31,975 --> 00:07:34,765 those guide rails, um, you know, 185 00:07:34,765 --> 00:07:37,045 that help support decision making. 186 00:07:37,675 --> 00:07:39,005 It's trauma-informed. 187 00:07:39,305 --> 00:07:42,005 - And you know, Megan, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm so anxious 188 00:07:42,005 --> 00:07:44,245 to get started, you know, I'm famous for that interruption, 189 00:07:44,265 --> 00:07:47,925 but, you know, um, uh, and I hate asking this question, 190 00:07:47,945 --> 00:07:50,445 but you know, you have all this wealth of experience 191 00:07:50,545 --> 00:07:52,645 and then you have the buffalo shooting. 192 00:07:53,585 --> 00:07:56,485 So can you describe for, for us listening where you were, 193 00:07:56,745 --> 00:07:59,445 how that affected you and kind of that idea of theory 194 00:07:59,465 --> 00:08:01,045 and reality mushing together? 195 00:08:01,155 --> 00:08:02,885 - Yeah, I mean, it was surreal, honestly. 196 00:08:03,225 --> 00:08:07,525 Um, it's, you know, it's been, uh, just over, 197 00:08:07,995 --> 00:08:10,005 just about a year, a little over a year and a half. 198 00:08:10,545 --> 00:08:15,485 Um, and we were, uh, kind of faced with the unthinkable, 199 00:08:15,985 --> 00:08:20,485 um, a shooter, um, uh, drove to our community intentionally, 200 00:08:21,025 --> 00:08:25,045 um, to target, uh, a a part of our community, um, 201 00:08:25,485 --> 00:08:26,485 that is alive 202 00:08:26,585 --> 00:08:30,445 and vibrant, the grocery store serves, um, people of color. 203 00:08:31,145 --> 00:08:35,445 And, um, I was responding as a person, uh, 204 00:08:35,465 --> 00:08:36,605 who supports the community 205 00:08:36,605 --> 00:08:38,805 and lots of organizations that were on site that day, 206 00:08:38,955 --> 00:08:40,965 including the police department, fire department, 207 00:08:41,065 --> 00:08:42,685 our transportation department, 208 00:08:42,705 --> 00:08:45,485 and the like, uh, including human service agencies 209 00:08:45,675 --> 00:08:47,125 that serve that community. 210 00:08:47,705 --> 00:08:51,285 And, uh, we were on site providing immediate support, 211 00:08:51,345 --> 00:08:54,165 crisis support, um, for, uh, 212 00:08:54,305 --> 00:08:56,125 for anybody in need at that moment. 213 00:08:56,585 --> 00:08:59,325 Um, as well as the ongoing months after. 214 00:08:59,785 --> 00:09:03,885 Um, and really that's what kind of brought to light, um, 215 00:09:04,105 --> 00:09:05,845 the need for us to understand 216 00:09:05,915 --> 00:09:08,725 that not everybody was impacted by that. 217 00:09:09,065 --> 00:09:13,365 Um, by that experience in our community in the same way, 218 00:09:13,785 --> 00:09:15,605 way, um, people with different backgrounds 219 00:09:15,625 --> 00:09:19,045 and different experiences, um, people with different colors 220 00:09:19,105 --> 00:09:22,765 of skin were impacted differently, um, based on the fact 221 00:09:22,765 --> 00:09:24,165 that they were targeted. 222 00:09:24,745 --> 00:09:26,285 Um, and, uh, 223 00:09:26,385 --> 00:09:29,565 it had a different traumatic effect, um, because of that. 224 00:09:30,425 --> 00:09:35,085 - And so, you know, Megan, it's now we're a few months, 225 00:09:35,135 --> 00:09:38,525 years later, and the news just comes fast and furious. 226 00:09:38,985 --> 00:09:41,005 So I'm gonna ask you a really hard one. Okay. 227 00:09:42,715 --> 00:09:43,975 My morning started with a client. 228 00:09:44,075 --> 00:09:46,055 I'm sure you're familiar with this client who says, 229 00:09:46,165 --> 00:09:48,095 there's nothing that can help me feel positive. 230 00:09:48,095 --> 00:09:51,095 Again, I, I don't tell me to go out 231 00:09:51,095 --> 00:09:53,055 and take a breath, don't tell me 232 00:09:53,055 --> 00:09:55,015 to eat healthy, to sleep better. 233 00:09:55,485 --> 00:09:57,015 I've done all that. I've tried all that, 234 00:09:57,195 --> 00:10:01,895 and I turning on the news and I, I see horrific things. 235 00:10:03,095 --> 00:10:06,735 I can't get access to the therapist to help me change, 236 00:10:07,275 --> 00:10:08,535 but yet I gotta pick up my kids. 237 00:10:09,295 --> 00:10:11,235 I gotta take care of my older mother. 238 00:10:11,775 --> 00:10:14,075 So I'm dumping it all in one question for you to know, 239 00:10:14,455 --> 00:10:17,315 how do we get to a hopeful, optimistic place? 240 00:10:17,855 --> 00:10:18,955 Can you give me some ideas? 241 00:10:19,345 --> 00:10:21,835 - Yeah. I think what you're talking about is so important, 242 00:10:21,835 --> 00:10:26,715 Wendy, in that, um, we can't self-care our way out 243 00:10:26,715 --> 00:10:27,875 of systemic challenges. 244 00:10:28,615 --> 00:10:32,995 Um, we can't train our way out of systemic challenges, 245 00:10:33,295 --> 00:10:36,195 and we have to look at it from multiple points of view. 246 00:10:36,215 --> 00:10:39,315 And I do think that having that conversation with folks 247 00:10:39,865 --> 00:10:42,035 lets them know that it's not all on their shoulders. 248 00:10:42,575 --> 00:10:43,875 Um, it's not all on them. 249 00:10:44,055 --> 00:10:46,795 That's much of this is the system around them. 250 00:10:47,105 --> 00:10:51,955 Much of this is what, uh, that, that we need to, um, 251 00:10:52,225 --> 00:10:54,275 stop beating people over the head, um, 252 00:10:54,295 --> 00:10:55,635 and telling them to take a walk 253 00:10:55,635 --> 00:10:57,475 and take a bubble bath and they'll all feel better. 254 00:10:57,935 --> 00:10:59,595 Um, we can't keep doing that. 255 00:11:00,015 --> 00:11:02,435 - You know, it's interesting because, you know, Megan, 256 00:11:02,595 --> 00:11:03,875 I I use this as an example. 257 00:11:03,875 --> 00:11:05,795 Like when I met you in the times I've talked to, 258 00:11:06,275 --> 00:11:07,395 I just feel better. 259 00:11:07,745 --> 00:11:10,555 Like, so describe to me why, just having a conversation, 260 00:11:10,625 --> 00:11:13,235 just, just talking, like why does that make me feel better? 261 00:11:13,395 --> 00:11:14,475 I, I I don't really understand. 262 00:11:14,535 --> 00:11:16,195 Why do I feel better after I talk to Megan? 263 00:11:16,585 --> 00:11:19,275 - It's such a great question because I think that's the, 264 00:11:19,375 --> 00:11:22,475 you know, the idea that somehow therapy, conversations, 265 00:11:22,475 --> 00:11:24,075 counseling is somehow magical. 266 00:11:24,855 --> 00:11:29,315 Um, it isn't magic in the, in, in, in the sense 267 00:11:29,315 --> 00:11:31,635 that it's going to make things all better. 268 00:11:32,055 --> 00:11:34,675 Um, and that there isn't, uh, effort involved. 269 00:11:35,095 --> 00:11:38,195 Uh, and it's really about being willing 270 00:11:38,615 --> 00:11:40,555 to take a look at things from a different perspective. 271 00:11:40,985 --> 00:11:42,955 It's being willing to acknowledge 272 00:11:43,095 --> 00:11:45,475 and validate that my experience 273 00:11:45,475 --> 00:11:47,555 and the reason I'm feeling this way makes sense. 274 00:11:48,135 --> 00:11:49,475 Um, that maybe it's the stuff 275 00:11:49,475 --> 00:11:51,155 that's coming at me that doesn't make sense. 276 00:11:51,695 --> 00:11:54,565 Um, and, and I may not have full control over that, 277 00:11:54,625 --> 00:11:58,125 but I do have control over my response, my reactions, 278 00:11:58,375 --> 00:12:00,645 where I go, where I don't go, who I talk 279 00:12:00,645 --> 00:12:01,885 to, who I don't talk to. 280 00:12:02,225 --> 00:12:04,125 And recognizing that our nervous 281 00:12:04,125 --> 00:12:05,485 systems are a big part of this. 282 00:12:05,945 --> 00:12:07,845 Um, where, where do we find 283 00:12:07,845 --> 00:12:12,125 that our nervous systems are more neutral or more calm? 284 00:12:12,665 --> 00:12:14,845 Um, why is that digging in 285 00:12:15,145 --> 00:12:17,445 and finding out, like, why when I talk to that person, 286 00:12:18,085 --> 00:12:19,285 I feel a sense of calm? 287 00:12:19,345 --> 00:12:20,685 Am I shifting my perspective? 288 00:12:21,305 --> 00:12:23,885 Um, am I seeing things bigger than myself? 289 00:12:24,385 --> 00:12:27,805 Um, I often ask people, you know, in session to kind 290 00:12:27,805 --> 00:12:29,085 of close their eyes and, 291 00:12:29,185 --> 00:12:31,325 and take that elevated view, kind 292 00:12:31,325 --> 00:12:34,685 of put yourself up on a satellite, um, put yourself up there 293 00:12:35,145 --> 00:12:38,245 and looking down at the, at the people in your circle 294 00:12:38,465 --> 00:12:40,325 and then beyond in your community, 295 00:12:40,345 --> 00:12:42,325 and then beyond in your city, your state, 296 00:12:42,595 --> 00:12:44,125 your country, and in the world. 297 00:12:44,225 --> 00:12:46,125 We need to have that perspective shift. 298 00:12:46,465 --> 00:12:49,845 And who does that for us? Um, who helps us find that? 299 00:12:50,225 --> 00:12:51,685 And, and I, not just who, 300 00:12:51,705 --> 00:12:53,885 but what, you know, what helps us find that? 301 00:12:54,745 --> 00:12:56,005 - You know, it's so interesting 302 00:12:56,005 --> 00:12:59,485 because it's, it's a, what you're describing, um, it's, 303 00:12:59,485 --> 00:13:00,765 it sounds hard in some ways, 304 00:13:00,785 --> 00:13:02,125 but if we make it simple, right? 305 00:13:02,125 --> 00:13:03,765 If we break it down and really just make it simple, 306 00:13:04,185 --> 00:13:06,445 you know, it's asking someone how they are 307 00:13:06,745 --> 00:13:10,005 and allowing them to answer real is life changing? 308 00:13:11,035 --> 00:13:13,965 - Yeah. And not keep walking and, hi, how are you? 309 00:13:14,065 --> 00:13:16,645 And keep walking. I've done it myself. I catch myself. 310 00:13:17,185 --> 00:13:19,925 Um, but really just sitting in, taking, 311 00:13:19,925 --> 00:13:21,205 looking at people in the eye, and, 312 00:13:21,345 --> 00:13:23,965 and I think this is one of the things that concerns me, is 313 00:13:23,965 --> 00:13:28,645 that we are, are, are turning, um, counseling 314 00:13:28,745 --> 00:13:32,645 and therapy into a transactional, um, experience. 315 00:13:33,065 --> 00:13:35,205 And it is not, it is relational. 316 00:13:35,705 --> 00:13:37,485 Um, how we relate to one another. 317 00:13:37,625 --> 00:13:40,525 And we know how this has affected us post pandemic. 318 00:13:41,025 --> 00:13:43,845 Uh, we know that that disconnect and, 319 00:13:43,905 --> 00:13:46,165 and that this is great, you know, 320 00:13:46,225 --> 00:13:48,885 but a lot of it is transactional, you know, 321 00:13:48,905 --> 00:13:51,005 but we have to make it interactional. 322 00:13:51,065 --> 00:13:52,485 We have to make it relational. 323 00:13:52,625 --> 00:13:54,445 And that requires us to sit down 324 00:13:54,445 --> 00:13:56,485 and be in each other's energy, um, 325 00:13:56,665 --> 00:13:58,925 be in each other's eyesight, um, 326 00:13:59,115 --> 00:14:02,925 look at each other in the eye and say, I, and, 327 00:14:03,085 --> 00:14:06,005 and the reality is, our nervous systems look 328 00:14:06,005 --> 00:14:07,925 to one another for calming 329 00:14:08,565 --> 00:14:09,565 - Soothing, right. 330 00:14:09,565 --> 00:14:10,445 That's self soothing. 331 00:14:10,625 --> 00:14:12,205 You know, it's so, it's so interesting me. 332 00:14:12,485 --> 00:14:14,485 'cause oh, my son will probably just throw something at me 333 00:14:14,485 --> 00:14:17,005 if you're telling this, but he's got this blanket from when 334 00:14:17,005 --> 00:14:19,165 he was like super young, like five or six years old. 335 00:14:19,325 --> 00:14:21,885 I mean, you can imagine he's 31 now, right? My youngest. 336 00:14:22,345 --> 00:14:24,645 And this blanket brings him this sense of soothing. 337 00:14:25,065 --> 00:14:27,205 And I think to myself, so what do we have? 338 00:14:27,505 --> 00:14:28,565 And you know, it's interesting 339 00:14:28,565 --> 00:14:30,085 because some of the things like, you know, 340 00:14:30,085 --> 00:14:33,645 I've been cleaning lately and I've been donating a ton. 341 00:14:34,465 --> 00:14:36,165 And I mean, can you describe like, why does 342 00:14:36,165 --> 00:14:39,005 that make me feel like I'm like, yes, there's this sense 343 00:14:39,005 --> 00:14:40,165 of like, I ran a marathon. 344 00:14:40,445 --> 00:14:42,845 I didn't run a marathon, but I did clean out my closet 345 00:14:42,985 --> 00:14:44,245 and donate a ton of things. 346 00:14:44,585 --> 00:14:46,405 How come that makes me feel so awesome? Because 347 00:14:46,405 --> 00:14:47,405 - It frees you up. 348 00:14:47,705 --> 00:14:49,485 - So - True. It, it reduces the 349 00:14:49,485 --> 00:14:50,725 burden that you're carrying. 350 00:14:51,365 --> 00:14:53,785 Um, we, we put things in our sphere. 351 00:14:53,845 --> 00:14:55,025 We put people in our sphere 352 00:14:55,045 --> 00:14:58,345 and we put stuff in our sphere thinking it's going to help, 353 00:14:58,505 --> 00:15:03,065 thinking it's going to, uh, provide us some, um, 354 00:15:03,485 --> 00:15:05,185 you know, some support and some guidance. 355 00:15:05,765 --> 00:15:08,625 You know, I I, I'm, I'm struck by even just thinking about, 356 00:15:09,445 --> 00:15:12,745 um, Chandler binging, um, you know, Matthew Perry. 357 00:15:13,245 --> 00:15:15,665 Um, he, he said it, I mean, 358 00:15:15,665 --> 00:15:17,305 I watched his interviews, I've read his book. 359 00:15:17,425 --> 00:15:20,065 I even listened to it 'cause it was so incredibly, um, 360 00:15:20,385 --> 00:15:21,465 powerful to hear his voice. 361 00:15:21,885 --> 00:15:25,505 But the reality is, what we have in that stuff in our sphere 362 00:15:26,155 --> 00:15:29,585 isn't going to provide us that ki that support and guidance 363 00:15:29,805 --> 00:15:33,585 and, and just that calm, um, that, that people are going 364 00:15:33,585 --> 00:15:34,585 to be bring to us. 365 00:15:35,005 --> 00:15:37,185 And that's why we think we need this. 366 00:15:37,205 --> 00:15:39,665 But now when we unburden ourselves 367 00:15:39,805 --> 00:15:42,025 and say, okay, I actually don't need all this stuff. 368 00:15:42,185 --> 00:15:44,505 I need things to be reasonable 369 00:15:44,645 --> 00:15:48,105 and organized so I can feel like I can accomplish 370 00:15:48,535 --> 00:15:51,545 what I need to in the day, that that space between 371 00:15:52,135 --> 00:15:53,385 what I need to accomplish 372 00:15:53,485 --> 00:15:58,425 and my perceived, um, idea that I can achieve that is that 373 00:15:58,425 --> 00:15:59,425 that gap is small. 374 00:15:59,805 --> 00:16:02,545 Um, and the smaller that gap is, the less stressed we are, 375 00:16:02,725 --> 00:16:05,185 the less our, our nervous systems on fire. 376 00:16:05,565 --> 00:16:06,905 Uh, when that gap is big 377 00:16:06,925 --> 00:16:08,545 and when there's something to do today, 378 00:16:08,805 --> 00:16:12,065 and I feel like I don't have the capacity to do it, um, 379 00:16:12,405 --> 00:16:13,945 that's where the anxiety sits. 380 00:16:14,325 --> 00:16:16,985 Um, and, and I, yeah, I gotta do it. 381 00:16:17,625 --> 00:16:20,865 - I love it. And Megan, you just, you just named the podcast 382 00:16:21,285 --> 00:16:22,985 so you jumped on today. 383 00:16:23,285 --> 00:16:26,025 Um, I wanna thank you. I know what I'm gonna name this. 384 00:16:26,215 --> 00:16:28,585 It's unburdened. That's what we need to do. 385 00:16:29,125 --> 00:16:30,505 Um, and um, 386 00:16:30,645 --> 00:16:32,305 and I think one of the last things 387 00:16:32,305 --> 00:16:33,705 that we really wanna touch upon, 388 00:16:34,165 --> 00:16:36,145 and again, um, my gratitude 389 00:16:36,145 --> 00:16:38,785 for you being here is maybe I'm doing okay, right? 390 00:16:38,885 --> 00:16:40,385 I'm, I, I, I've, I've, I've heard, 391 00:16:40,445 --> 00:16:43,345 but I, my loved one at home, or my boss 392 00:16:43,445 --> 00:16:46,665 or my colleague, they're in that really deep place 393 00:16:46,715 --> 00:16:48,305 where they're feeling that overwhelmed. 394 00:16:48,535 --> 00:16:50,825 What, what can I do to help them and support them 395 00:16:50,825 --> 00:16:52,225 because I'm actually okay, 396 00:16:52,685 --> 00:16:54,385 but they might be bringing me down a little bit. 397 00:16:54,565 --> 00:16:57,265 - The first tip is connect with them for real. Yep. 398 00:16:57,365 --> 00:16:59,945 And you know what, for real means, you know what? 399 00:16:59,945 --> 00:17:02,825 For real roommates, um, sometimes it's a text message. 400 00:17:03,365 --> 00:17:06,105 Um, sometimes it's a pick up the phone. 401 00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:08,865 Don't be afraid to be connecting with people. 402 00:17:09,605 --> 00:17:11,465 Um, it may be stopping by. 403 00:17:11,605 --> 00:17:14,425 It may be, um, making some banana bread 404 00:17:14,425 --> 00:17:15,745 and sending it over to your neighbor. 405 00:17:16,125 --> 00:17:18,105 Um, connect with people. 406 00:17:18,645 --> 00:17:20,145 - You know what, Megan, I gotta interrupt here 407 00:17:20,145 --> 00:17:21,345 and tell you something really interesting. 408 00:17:21,345 --> 00:17:23,265 Yeah. When my ex-husband passed away, 409 00:17:23,265 --> 00:17:24,905 we were recently divorced, right? 410 00:17:24,985 --> 00:17:27,265 I was running the company, a thousand trainers. 411 00:17:27,485 --> 00:17:29,385 How many do you think sent me a condolence note? 412 00:17:29,645 --> 00:17:30,625 How many do you think reached 413 00:17:30,645 --> 00:17:31,825 out? Like you said, for real, what 414 00:17:31,825 --> 00:17:32,825 - Do you think? 415 00:17:32,825 --> 00:17:34,865 I would hope, what do I hope , I would hope half 416 00:17:36,005 --> 00:17:37,005 - Two. 417 00:17:37,125 --> 00:17:39,785 - Wow. - And the answer I got from them was 418 00:17:39,785 --> 00:17:42,705 that old philosophy of I didn't wanna upset you more. 419 00:17:43,485 --> 00:17:44,865 So I, I I was afraid. 420 00:17:45,345 --> 00:17:46,425 I don't wanna ask how you're doing 421 00:17:46,425 --> 00:17:48,745 because you know, whoa, you were in Buffalo when it 422 00:17:48,905 --> 00:17:51,325 happened, so let me not upset you more, Megan. 423 00:17:51,535 --> 00:17:53,045 Right? So talk to me about 424 00:17:53,145 --> 00:17:54,405 - That's a, it's a great point. 425 00:17:54,605 --> 00:17:55,845 'cause I think that's what we are. 426 00:17:55,905 --> 00:17:57,325 We think, oh, someone else has it. 427 00:17:57,445 --> 00:17:58,445 I don't wanna bother them. 428 00:17:59,205 --> 00:18:01,405 I don't wanna, um, take their time. 429 00:18:01,805 --> 00:18:04,325 I don't want to, what you just said, upset them more. 430 00:18:04,945 --> 00:18:08,845 Um, when in reality, connection, relationship 431 00:18:09,305 --> 00:18:13,845 and being, being real with people, um, is, is vital 432 00:18:14,385 --> 00:18:17,725 to our sustainability as a population, um, 433 00:18:17,915 --> 00:18:20,365 that we cannot take that out of. 434 00:18:20,625 --> 00:18:22,205 We can't take the humanity out of 435 00:18:22,205 --> 00:18:24,085 what we're doing, um, at all. 436 00:18:24,405 --> 00:18:26,325 I, I mean, I I'm not afraid of ai, 437 00:18:26,945 --> 00:18:28,765 - You know, it's such a set. 438 00:18:28,885 --> 00:18:30,765 I, I, I'm right there with you. Right? It's exciting. 439 00:18:30,985 --> 00:18:32,125 You know, it's interesting. It's one 440 00:18:32,125 --> 00:18:33,125 of the tips I have taking care 441 00:18:33,125 --> 00:18:35,365 of my mother is I always have a trip planned for. 442 00:18:36,685 --> 00:18:38,085 I just, it's always on the calendar. 443 00:18:38,135 --> 00:18:41,285 We've got January 5th, we're going now, will we go right? 444 00:18:42,065 --> 00:18:44,765 Do I think we'll go? But man, it's there. Yeah. 445 00:18:45,505 --> 00:18:48,005 And we talk about it and we may shop for it. 446 00:18:48,025 --> 00:18:49,085 And we plan for it 447 00:18:49,195 --> 00:18:51,645 because that's the connection I know my mom loves. 448 00:18:51,675 --> 00:18:54,405 Yeah. Yeah. And am I scared that she's 88? 449 00:18:54,435 --> 00:18:56,205 Yeah. Stuff could happen. 450 00:18:56,545 --> 00:18:57,605 - But the research says 451 00:18:57,955 --> 00:19:00,485 that planning a vacation is more calming Yep. 452 00:19:00,675 --> 00:19:03,485 Than going on one. So true. And I would agree with that. 453 00:19:03,845 --> 00:19:05,605 . I love planning a vacation, 454 00:19:06,185 --> 00:19:09,085 - So I can't thank you enough for jumping on today, 455 00:19:09,315 --> 00:19:10,965 beginning this conversation of 456 00:19:10,965 --> 00:19:13,165 how do we unburden ourselves and our loved ones. 457 00:19:13,745 --> 00:19:16,485 Um, it's not just that you have such an amazing wealth 458 00:19:16,485 --> 00:19:18,285 of educational background, but you've lived it. 459 00:19:19,105 --> 00:19:20,845 Um, and you're always willing to share. 460 00:19:21,065 --> 00:19:23,365 So thank you so much for being part of our program today. 461 00:19:23,585 --> 00:19:26,005 - Always happy to talk with you, Wendy, um, anytime 462 00:19:26,665 --> 00:19:28,645 you take care of yourself for real . 463 00:19:28,785 --> 00:19:30,045 - For real, - For real. 464 00:19:41,985 --> 00:19:44,435 - This has been a production of balancing life's issues 465 00:19:44,435 --> 00:19:46,115 with your hosts, Kai Sorenson 466 00:19:46,135 --> 00:19:49,435 and Wendy Wallner, produced by me Kai Rate. 467 00:19:49,445 --> 00:19:51,395 Leave a review and subscribe to the podcast 468 00:19:51,995 --> 00:19:53,715 wherever you listen so you can get brand new 469 00:19:53,715 --> 00:19:54,795 episodes as they drop. 470 00:19:55,175 --> 00:19:57,195 Got an idea for the show. Email me, 471 00:19:57,515 --> 00:20:00,115 KI at balancing life's issues.com. 472 00:20:00,915 --> 00:20:02,115 Anything to add? Miles? No.