1 00:00:00,105 --> 00:00:00,938 . 2 00:00:07,015 --> 00:00:11,545 Welcome to Balancing Life's Issues, the podcast. My name is Kai, your host, 3 00:00:11,725 --> 00:00:14,585 and I'm here with CEO Wendy Wallner. How are you today? Good. 4 00:00:14,805 --> 00:00:18,025 I'm excited to, uh, have story time Kai. It's been a little bit of a while. 5 00:00:18,055 --> 00:00:20,105 Yeah. Well, you know, I'm, I'm coming off of, uh, 6 00:00:20,255 --> 00:00:24,905 some parental leave and I've just been navigating life with a four and a half 7 00:00:24,955 --> 00:00:29,625 month old. Yeah. Starting part-time daycare next week. So emotionally, 8 00:00:29,625 --> 00:00:33,105 we're preparing ourselves, but also logistically, there has to be enough milk. 9 00:00:33,725 --> 00:00:38,705 Uh, we're gonna be able to get back to like a full day of work, which is what, 10 00:00:38,705 --> 00:00:41,665 what a notion, . Yeah. And honestly, you know, we wanna, 11 00:00:42,605 --> 00:00:45,785 not that I don't love him being around every minute, every day, 12 00:00:45,785 --> 00:00:48,025 but I think the break's gonna be nice for us. 13 00:00:48,165 --> 00:00:49,745 Little healthy. And, you know, 14 00:00:49,745 --> 00:00:53,145 it really ties into our conversation today because one of the things that does 15 00:00:53,395 --> 00:00:55,305 drive me, or my passion is, 16 00:00:55,405 --> 00:00:58,465 are we creating the best world for this next generation? Right. 17 00:00:58,465 --> 00:01:02,265 When we talk about, you know, your son and, and, and, and, 18 00:01:02,445 --> 00:01:06,665 and so many other people, my employees that you know, their families, I'm, 19 00:01:06,765 --> 00:01:09,105 I'm thinking about are we doing the very best job? 20 00:01:09,285 --> 00:01:13,425 So I thought we would start with a story of a job that I had that not a lot of 21 00:01:13,425 --> 00:01:16,265 people know. Would you like to, would you like to hear that story? 22 00:01:16,865 --> 00:01:17,825 Absolutely. Fire away. 23 00:01:18,165 --> 00:01:22,945 So let's set the time. It's, um, 1979. Wow. 24 00:01:23,325 --> 00:01:27,305 And I know long time ago, dating myself here. And, um, 25 00:01:27,625 --> 00:01:30,345 I think you've heard me talk about the fact that my parents were not born in 26 00:01:30,345 --> 00:01:31,045 this country. 27 00:01:31,045 --> 00:01:35,985 So I was brought up with this idea of fleeing and refugee. 28 00:01:36,605 --> 00:01:39,025 And I can tell you that as a kid, 29 00:01:39,025 --> 00:01:42,705 when you would go out to dinner and half your family would speak German and the 30 00:01:42,705 --> 00:01:45,985 other half Italian and then English. It's embarrassing. Right. Like a kid. 31 00:01:45,985 --> 00:01:48,225 Right. You don't want anyone looking at you. Remember, when you're a kid, 32 00:01:48,515 --> 00:01:49,465 don't look at me. 33 00:01:50,185 --> 00:01:51,145 Absolutely. Yes. . 34 00:01:51,525 --> 00:01:52,825 Um, but deep down, 35 00:01:52,905 --> 00:01:57,305 I was always sort of interested in this idea of what happened that they had to 36 00:01:57,305 --> 00:01:58,665 leave from one day to the next. 37 00:01:58,685 --> 00:02:02,225 And so one of my very first jobs was at the Anti-Defamation League. 38 00:02:02,255 --> 00:02:06,705 They really step up to the plate during these time rise in antisemitism. 39 00:02:06,885 --> 00:02:09,105 And so I just want you to think a minute, Kai. 40 00:02:09,305 --> 00:02:11,745 'cause this is before the internet. Are you there? Uh. 41 00:02:11,825 --> 00:02:13,465 I remember a time before the internet, but it was, 42 00:02:13,465 --> 00:02:14,545 it was a small part of my life. 43 00:02:14,575 --> 00:02:17,385 Okay. So when you wanted to do something, you wanted to know something, 44 00:02:17,415 --> 00:02:18,425 what did you have to do? 45 00:02:18,725 --> 00:02:23,585 Oh, man. I had to go to a library, um, find an answer. Um, 46 00:02:23,585 --> 00:02:25,305 hopefully a friend knew. Yeah. 47 00:02:25,725 --> 00:02:29,705 And so my job, I would take the train, go to Manhattan, sit in a, 48 00:02:29,725 --> 00:02:32,105 in a huge library like you just said. 49 00:02:32,685 --> 00:02:37,505 And I had a table with every paper that you can imagine across 50 00:02:37,505 --> 00:02:41,065 America, you know, the New York Times, the Los Angeles, the Baltimore, 51 00:02:41,125 --> 00:02:43,105 all the big cities. And they would put them on my desk. 52 00:02:43,365 --> 00:02:48,065 And my job was a hate crime news clipper. So what do you think that meant? 53 00:02:48,135 --> 00:02:49,865 What do you think I did for eight hours? 54 00:02:51,315 --> 00:02:56,305 You'd have to read maybe the crime part of a newspaper and 55 00:02:56,335 --> 00:02:59,590 find anything related to a hate crime and clip it out like literally with 56 00:02:59,645 --> 00:03:00,725 scissors. Clip it out. Yeah. 57 00:03:01,305 --> 00:03:05,565 And I created boxes and boxes and found that very often 58 00:03:06,225 --> 00:03:10,325 the article would be three lines. It would be hidden, but it would be there. 59 00:03:10,545 --> 00:03:14,885 And if I did my job well, I learned how many hate crimes there were. 60 00:03:15,345 --> 00:03:19,445 And some were very small. One-on-one, some were very large, 61 00:03:19,595 --> 00:03:23,725 many on many, um, and everything in between. And it really, 62 00:03:24,265 --> 00:03:27,685 it fueled me to realize the presence of hate. 63 00:03:28,225 --> 00:03:31,725 And it got me interested in what can we do about it. Um, and so I, 64 00:03:31,765 --> 00:03:34,045 I went to my next job, um, and, 65 00:03:34,065 --> 00:03:38,085 and really shout out to my parents because they let me leave high school back 66 00:03:38,085 --> 00:03:41,325 then. No cell phones. Right. I go to Washington . Um, 67 00:03:41,435 --> 00:03:44,365 president Carter at the time had set up a president's commission on the 68 00:03:44,365 --> 00:03:46,245 Holocaust. You may know it now. 69 00:03:46,245 --> 00:03:48,605 Have you ever been outta Washington and been to the, um, 70 00:03:49,075 --> 00:03:50,805 Holocaust Memorial Museum? You know. 71 00:03:50,905 --> 00:03:51,345 Uh, we were, 72 00:03:51,345 --> 00:03:54,885 we got Mary Washington dc Lisa's mom from DC so we're there all the time. 73 00:03:55,105 --> 00:03:58,205 But that is on my list to do. I've seen many other memorials, 74 00:03:58,205 --> 00:04:01,485 but I know the Holocaust Museum is, is definitely one that needs to be seen. 75 00:04:01,705 --> 00:04:05,965 And interesting enough, it's one of the most popular, um, most visited, um, 76 00:04:05,965 --> 00:04:09,405 museums in the world, which, which I'm happy about. And I, I was, again, 77 00:04:09,535 --> 00:04:13,205 lucky enough to learn from a different perspective. 78 00:04:13,865 --> 00:04:18,285 So one of the missions of the Holocaust Museum was to show 79 00:04:18,915 --> 00:04:23,685 that all of the people that were targeted. So, so let's just, let's play a game. 80 00:04:23,685 --> 00:04:26,885 And, and Kai, you and I did not rehearse this, so Nope. It's not really fair. 81 00:04:27,235 --> 00:04:29,965 Just the audience should know. He has no idea what I'm asking. 82 00:04:30,145 --> 00:04:33,685 But what were some of the groups that were targeted? Like what, 83 00:04:33,715 --> 00:04:37,125 what other groups and the Jews did Taylor target during World Wari? 84 00:04:37,265 --> 00:04:41,565 Um, uh, those with special needs or physical abilities, is that correct? Yep. 85 00:04:41,745 --> 00:04:45,885 Um, I don't know if race was, 86 00:04:45,885 --> 00:04:47,485 were tar any, you. 87 00:04:47,485 --> 00:04:49,845 Can't also say, but you can hear me. You're nodding. 88 00:04:50,025 --> 00:04:53,885 I'm nodding. Okay. So every anybody who was an Aryan was targeted. 89 00:04:54,065 --> 00:04:57,325 Yep. So the blonde eye, which is of course ironic as Hitler was not. 90 00:04:57,325 --> 00:04:57,995 Brown. Right. I do know that. 91 00:04:57,995 --> 00:04:59,845 Yeah. Right. So what else? 92 00:04:59,985 --> 00:05:03,565 Um, well, I think anything that's not Aryan kind of covers my bases, right? No, 93 00:05:03,565 --> 00:05:05,085 not really. Not necessarily. No. 94 00:05:05,505 --> 00:05:05,925 So other. 95 00:05:05,925 --> 00:05:09,405 Groups, um, well, I know there's an antiquated term gypsy. 96 00:05:09,515 --> 00:05:11,125 Okay. The travelers. Yep. 97 00:05:11,905 --> 00:05:12,385 Um. 98 00:05:12,385 --> 00:05:14,165 So that definitely didn't fit in his group. 99 00:05:14,265 --> 00:05:18,725 So there's a whole section about the hatred against that population. Sure. 100 00:05:19,305 --> 00:05:21,125 And any other, I mean, there's so many more, 101 00:05:21,125 --> 00:05:24,605 but let's just go for one more that sometimes is forgotten about. Um. 102 00:05:25,435 --> 00:05:28,805 Well, I guess maybe the L-G-B-T-Q community. Yep. 103 00:05:29,225 --> 00:05:33,325 Yep. Of course, at that time when it started, it wasn't quite as sophisticated. 104 00:05:33,345 --> 00:05:36,205 We didn't know as much as we do today. But, so the gay lesbian, 105 00:05:36,375 --> 00:05:38,245 which of course now is a much larger popul. 106 00:05:38,245 --> 00:05:40,485 Yeah. And, you know, as you ask me that question, I'm thinking in my head, 107 00:05:40,665 --> 00:05:41,645 who are, um, 108 00:05:41,645 --> 00:05:46,165 groups of people who are disenfranchised or often targeted or persecuted. 109 00:05:46,265 --> 00:05:49,045 And, you know, what's what I was kind of hoping you would say, what's. 110 00:05:49,045 --> 00:05:49,405 That? 111 00:05:49,405 --> 00:05:51,365 I was hoping that you might say you weren't sure. 112 00:05:51,585 --> 00:05:55,325 Oh, instead of going to find an answer that I didn't know I could have said. 113 00:05:55,395 --> 00:05:55,685 Yeah. 114 00:05:55,685 --> 00:05:56,125 That's not. 115 00:05:56,125 --> 00:05:58,285 What I was hoping. Okay. So that's maybe, okay. 116 00:05:58,285 --> 00:06:01,205 We're kind of peeling back some layers here. Yeah. I don't know. 117 00:06:01,725 --> 00:06:03,485 I was hoping, I was hoping that, 118 00:06:03,595 --> 00:06:08,085 because I think one of the things that I've learned is that incredible 119 00:06:08,085 --> 00:06:11,645 sophistication to say, I don't know, but maybe I'm willing to learn. Yeah. And, 120 00:06:11,985 --> 00:06:16,725 um, and you know, we, you know, I'm moving forward to today. Um, we had, 121 00:06:16,745 --> 00:06:21,365 we had a pretty, I think, exciting day at work that it was very validating. 122 00:06:21,425 --> 00:06:25,285 So I'll end with that story, Kai. So ask me, what was so validating today? 123 00:06:25,465 --> 00:06:27,285 So what was so validating about today? 124 00:06:27,945 --> 00:06:30,565 So we, we were working with a client who was pretty, 125 00:06:30,625 --> 00:06:34,765 pretty scared to do a class about the world today. 126 00:06:35,165 --> 00:06:37,925 'cause there's so many horrific things, right? We have Right. 127 00:06:38,105 --> 00:06:41,965 So many wars and so much civil unrest, and we have definite financial unrest, 128 00:06:41,965 --> 00:06:45,245 and we could list could go on and on. So at the end of the day, 129 00:06:45,385 --> 00:06:49,165 she was pretty confident that about 10 people would sign up. So we sent out our, 130 00:06:49,185 --> 00:06:53,325 our webinar information. The room holds 999 people. 131 00:06:53,745 --> 00:06:56,405 How many people do you think signed up in 24 minutes? 132 00:06:56,715 --> 00:06:58,205 What was the topic specifically? 133 00:06:59,045 --> 00:07:02,045 I would say it's really discussing living in today's world. 134 00:07:02,145 --> 00:07:06,085 So living in uncertain times. Yeah. Um, in 24 minutes. 135 00:07:06,425 --> 00:07:07,605 24 Minutes, I'm. 136 00:07:07,605 --> 00:07:07,865 Gonna go. 137 00:07:07,865 --> 00:07:10,325 6 75, 999. 138 00:07:10,595 --> 00:07:14,805 Sold out, man, if only my band could do that. Yep. On a regular basis. Yep. 139 00:07:15,125 --> 00:07:15,545 . 140 00:07:15,545 --> 00:07:17,845 We had to set up a second room, which is quickly going. 141 00:07:18,065 --> 00:07:19,445 So what do you, why do you think that was? 142 00:07:19,725 --> 00:07:23,325 I love the idea that we are open to this discussion. Yeah. So first, I, 143 00:07:23,485 --> 00:07:25,085 I always wanna thank everyone who's listening, 144 00:07:25,405 --> 00:07:28,845 everyone who's sending us comments and, and continuing the discussion. 145 00:07:28,845 --> 00:07:32,445 Thank you. We're grateful and honored to have you here. Um, because I, 146 00:07:32,565 --> 00:07:37,405 I do think I had the ability to sit and cut and look and read 147 00:07:37,745 --> 00:07:41,565 the story after story after story after story. And, you know, 148 00:07:41,565 --> 00:07:44,285 I interviewed my kids before, before this podcast, and I said, 149 00:07:44,285 --> 00:07:47,565 did I do anything Right? Um, anything. Right. 150 00:07:47,635 --> 00:07:51,645 When it comes to teaching you about the difficulties of growing up with the 151 00:07:51,645 --> 00:07:53,085 world with hate. Yeah. Right. I mean, 152 00:07:53,165 --> 00:07:55,525 I was never allowed to wear a Jewish star growing up. Mm-Hmm. . 153 00:07:55,545 --> 00:07:57,845 And my mother would still be uncomfortable today. Right. It would, 154 00:07:57,865 --> 00:08:01,285 it would make her very uneasy. Um, and outta respect to her fear, 155 00:08:01,445 --> 00:08:02,605 I don't Mm-Hmm. . Um, 156 00:08:02,785 --> 00:08:05,485 but I think what's interesting is one of the things that actually my youngest 157 00:08:05,485 --> 00:08:08,765 son, I can always quote because he's, he's sort of clever this way, is, 158 00:08:09,105 --> 00:08:13,285 you know, in, in, in openness to have a discussion, um, 159 00:08:13,465 --> 00:08:16,485 and to sit and say, wow, I didn't know that. And help me understand that. 160 00:08:16,545 --> 00:08:17,965 So I don't use this word anymore. 161 00:08:18,045 --> 00:08:22,125 I use that word because the only way we root cause hate is to understand where 162 00:08:22,145 --> 00:08:23,245 it comes from. Right? 163 00:08:23,455 --> 00:08:27,845 Right. And it makes me think of, you know, this moment in time, right? 164 00:08:27,985 --> 00:08:32,405 How am I processing what's happening in the world, um, given what's going on in, 165 00:08:32,585 --> 00:08:37,405 in U Ukraine given, on what's going on in Israel and Palestine? And it, it, 166 00:08:37,545 --> 00:08:38,005 it, 167 00:08:38,005 --> 00:08:42,845 I remark on the political injustice movements like Black Lives Matter, 168 00:08:43,175 --> 00:08:47,725 where I knew something massive was happening 169 00:08:48,205 --> 00:08:51,765 structurally, like to us as a society. And I, 170 00:08:51,925 --> 00:08:55,885 I had to find the humility to Yeah. 171 00:08:56,305 --> 00:08:59,485 To ask questions that made me uncomfortable. 172 00:08:59,705 --> 00:09:03,925 And fortunately at that time, you know, obviously we, we were, you know, 173 00:09:03,925 --> 00:09:07,965 in lockdown. So we were out, I was doing a weekly zoom with my, with my friends, 174 00:09:08,115 --> 00:09:10,725 with my band mates. And it was, it was, 175 00:09:10,865 --> 00:09:15,765 it was a situation where every week we could openly say things that we 176 00:09:15,975 --> 00:09:20,485 would in other circles would feel uncomfortable, or maybe we would, um, 177 00:09:20,585 --> 00:09:22,685 be laughed at or, or ridiculed. 178 00:09:22,785 --> 00:09:27,645 But instead it was a very vulnerable space where I was able to ask questions and 179 00:09:27,645 --> 00:09:29,125 I learned so much about, 180 00:09:29,695 --> 00:09:33,925 about myself and about their experiences with what was going on. 181 00:09:34,065 --> 00:09:39,045 And to your point of, of being able to confront something head on. Yeah. And, 182 00:09:39,185 --> 00:09:42,885 and not shy away from, from difficult conversations because, 183 00:09:43,385 --> 00:09:47,965 so you sat in a library clipping articles to today I just 184 00:09:48,095 --> 00:09:52,605 typed antisemitism into Spotify and 185 00:09:52,705 --> 00:09:57,565 here's 50 podcasts show up. Okay. So do a little bit of research and Okay, 186 00:09:57,565 --> 00:10:00,445 what's this podcast like? Like what are the angles? So I listen to this one, 187 00:10:00,445 --> 00:10:03,765 like the daily, like your New York Times, you know, that point of view. 188 00:10:03,765 --> 00:10:06,205 And then there's another one that's more of like a conservative point of view. 189 00:10:06,825 --> 00:10:08,245 And, you know, I, 190 00:10:08,305 --> 00:10:12,805 I'm really encouraged and excited by what, 191 00:10:12,835 --> 00:10:15,805 what you're bringing to the table today. 'cause um, you know, 192 00:10:15,805 --> 00:10:17,485 tell us a little more about who we're gonna be speaking to. 193 00:10:17,635 --> 00:10:20,885 Yeah. So our, our our, our second part of this conversation, 194 00:10:20,905 --> 00:10:24,365 and hopefully our third and fourth is going to be about learning. 195 00:10:24,675 --> 00:10:25,965 That is what I believe. Mm-Hmm. , 196 00:10:25,965 --> 00:10:30,245 that's what all of our podcasts have a lesson about. What do I need to learn? 197 00:10:30,745 --> 00:10:35,525 You know, not all Jews eat the same foods and dress the same and look the same. 198 00:10:35,545 --> 00:10:39,525 And it's super confusing. And, and I understand that. And, and then when it's, 199 00:10:39,525 --> 00:10:41,925 we tend to fall into the world of, well, I won't say anything. 200 00:10:41,925 --> 00:10:45,965 And then we become ignorant and ignorance can become antisemitism and hatred and 201 00:10:45,965 --> 00:10:49,765 it gets all mixed up. And so we're gonna get a chance to meet a, a, a, 202 00:10:49,925 --> 00:10:53,405 a wonderful friend, a mentor. Um, gosh, that's a, 203 00:10:53,645 --> 00:10:55,925 a you remember we did a podcast. Let's go back and, 204 00:10:55,925 --> 00:10:57,525 and shout out Rainn Anderson. Mm-Hmm. , 205 00:10:57,525 --> 00:11:00,765 who taught us the North Star. The North Star, yeah. Um, and Rabbi Jake, 206 00:11:00,765 --> 00:11:01,725 who you're gonna meet in a few minutes, 207 00:11:02,025 --> 00:11:05,085 has always been sort of my touch point or my North star. 208 00:11:05,185 --> 00:11:10,045 So she's gonna jump on here because I do think at the cornerstone this 209 00:11:11,035 --> 00:11:14,925 time is for you, your motivation, of course is your, 210 00:11:15,035 --> 00:11:18,485 your little new one. And my motivation is the world. I don't know, 211 00:11:18,485 --> 00:11:20,805 is that too lofty? Am I allowed to say that? Uh, listen. 212 00:11:21,305 --> 00:11:25,805 Um, something I learned about you very quickly, uh, is your tenacity, 213 00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:30,645 your ambition, uh, your fearlessness. So no, I don't think using the term world, 214 00:11:30,985 --> 00:11:32,685 uh, that definitely fits. 215 00:11:32,925 --> 00:11:35,285 . It's pretty funny. 'cause yesterday, I think, you know, I, I, I'm fine, 216 00:11:35,285 --> 00:11:37,765 but I, I, I was sick and I needed some stuff done. 217 00:11:37,765 --> 00:11:42,325 And there was this amazing nurse who was, um, taking care of me. 218 00:11:42,325 --> 00:11:46,125 And she happened to be a person of color. And we were only together, um, 219 00:11:47,345 --> 00:11:48,105 for a few minutes. 220 00:11:48,105 --> 00:11:52,285 But we ended up having this really incredible conversation about being a person 221 00:11:52,285 --> 00:11:54,725 of color today in the healthcare industry. And she's like, 222 00:11:54,725 --> 00:11:58,525 nobody ever talks about this stuff. I'm like, that's what I wanna do. We, 223 00:11:58,705 --> 00:12:02,205 we really want to. So we're gonna, um, we're gonna take, 224 00:12:02,395 --> 00:12:06,205 take a few minute break and relax and re-engage. And, and I, 225 00:12:06,325 --> 00:12:09,325 I want you to think about the questions like what would it, 226 00:12:09,325 --> 00:12:11,085 what would you wanna know, um, 227 00:12:11,295 --> 00:12:15,765 about maybe being Jewish or fill in the blank or about why the hatred is the way 228 00:12:15,765 --> 00:12:18,005 it is or where it's coming from. Um, 229 00:12:18,105 --> 00:12:21,245 so let's take a few minutes and really ponder some questions. Kai. 230 00:12:21,725 --> 00:12:23,445 Absolutely will do. And, and no joke, I, 231 00:12:23,485 --> 00:12:26,485 I appreciate a few minutes 'cause I literally just found puke on my shirt from 232 00:12:26,485 --> 00:12:29,085 Miles. So I'm gonna go clean that off and we'll. 233 00:12:29,515 --> 00:12:30,685 What, what a great ending. 234 00:12:30,865 --> 00:12:33,285 Get back, we'll hop back in with the interview in a second. Perfect. 235 00:12:48,945 --> 00:12:52,285 Let me tell you about one of the things that I've learned about talking with 236 00:12:52,285 --> 00:12:55,445 people who aren't Jewish about antisemitism. It's, 237 00:12:55,445 --> 00:12:58,685 it's a very misunderstood hatred. 238 00:12:59,865 --> 00:13:02,445 And the best way, I think, 239 00:13:02,465 --> 00:13:06,965 to convey to people what it's about is to tell stories. 240 00:13:07,225 --> 00:13:11,925 So I'm gonna tell you a couple of stories of antisemitism from before I became 241 00:13:11,925 --> 00:13:16,365 Jewish and before I even knew enough to label what I heard as 242 00:13:16,595 --> 00:13:20,765 antisemitic. So I grew up in a, in a Christian family, 243 00:13:21,385 --> 00:13:24,725 um, German origin. And one of the, uh, 244 00:13:24,725 --> 00:13:29,365 things that we always had a family joke we had was that my parents and 245 00:13:29,365 --> 00:13:33,125 grandparents were very, uh, cheap. So they, they would park, 246 00:13:33,225 --> 00:13:34,485 if they were going to an event, 247 00:13:34,515 --> 00:13:39,455 they would park 20 blocks away for free rather than pay, 248 00:13:39,555 --> 00:13:43,375 you know, two bucks to park, park closer to the venue. And it was often said, 249 00:13:43,635 --> 00:13:45,455 you know, we must have had some Jewish, 250 00:13:46,235 --> 00:13:49,295 we had some Jews right in our background. When I heard it, 251 00:13:49,375 --> 00:13:52,495 I didn't understand what that meant. Only later did I understand what it meant. 252 00:13:52,755 --> 00:13:54,735 And then, um, when I was in ninth grade, 253 00:13:55,055 --> 00:13:59,575 I lived for a year with an uncle and aunt. And the aunt was, uh, also, you know, 254 00:13:59,575 --> 00:14:03,175 fundamentalist Christian. And I was just learning about the Holocaust. 255 00:14:03,875 --> 00:14:08,695 And I came to her and I said, I'm so disturbed by what I am learning. 256 00:14:09,315 --> 00:14:11,415 And she said, well, that's always the way. 257 00:14:11,475 --> 00:14:16,085 The Jews are a stiff-necked people. You know, like, 258 00:14:16,085 --> 00:14:17,245 we brought it on ourselves. 259 00:14:17,345 --> 00:14:21,405 And I didn't only realize later that she got that right from the Hebrew Bible. 260 00:14:21,455 --> 00:14:22,365 Right. There's a lot, 261 00:14:22,365 --> 00:14:27,045 there's a lot of stuff that can be used against Jews found in our own Bible. 262 00:14:27,705 --> 00:14:29,335 So, you know, 263 00:14:29,375 --> 00:14:33,575 I I think the first step is to kind of tell people, you know, 264 00:14:33,575 --> 00:14:38,535 your own experiences of anti-Semitism living out West before I came here. 265 00:14:38,535 --> 00:14:43,375 People use the phrase, uh, are you gonna jo me down? Mm-Hmm. . 266 00:14:43,725 --> 00:14:47,035 Yeah. You don't hear that as much out here. Uh, 267 00:14:47,035 --> 00:14:51,285 but we had a gathering of about 80 people at Temple Israel Sunday evening, 268 00:14:51,905 --> 00:14:56,525 an interfaith gathering to talk about antisemitism planned long before the war 269 00:14:56,855 --> 00:15:00,685 broke out. And a lot of the people who, 270 00:15:00,735 --> 00:15:02,925 about half the people there are, are not Jewish. 271 00:15:03,275 --> 00:15:07,445 They had no idea that people would get beaten up. You know, 272 00:15:07,445 --> 00:15:10,405 people in the room had been beaten up for being Jewish. 273 00:15:11,265 --> 00:15:16,125 And so telling stories is a way to kind of gain 274 00:15:16,125 --> 00:15:17,285 understanding. Well. 275 00:15:17,285 --> 00:15:20,125 Well, I hear what I hear you saying is we have to share the stories, 276 00:15:20,175 --> 00:15:23,285 which is sometimes hard, right? Like, I mean, look, when I was at Syracuse, 277 00:15:23,405 --> 00:15:27,365 I was teaching social studies and my master teacher said, well, 278 00:15:27,825 --> 00:15:30,485 we rip out the Holocaust 'cause there's no Jews in the class. 279 00:15:30,585 --> 00:15:34,725 And he literally took the book Rabbi and he ripped it out. And he said, 280 00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:37,525 we don't teach what's not relevant to us. And I was like, well, 281 00:15:37,985 --> 00:15:41,965 how will we ever learn this? So we have to share our horror stories, 282 00:15:41,965 --> 00:15:43,805 which are hard. It's hard to do that. 283 00:15:44,145 --> 00:15:46,405 It, it's very hard. But otherwise it, 284 00:15:46,405 --> 00:15:50,925 it's such a antisemitism is so difficult to understand because un unlike a, 285 00:15:51,005 --> 00:15:52,565 a hatred like racism, right? 286 00:15:52,825 --> 00:15:56,765 That's kind of like we're talking about inferior people easily 287 00:15:57,525 --> 00:16:00,965 identified because of the color of their skin. Mm-Hmm. Antisemitism, you know, 288 00:16:01,035 --> 00:16:05,725 Jews are not as readily identified because many of us come from European 289 00:16:05,725 --> 00:16:10,685 backgrounds and it's more like, um, I think Barry Weiss called it punching up, 290 00:16:11,015 --> 00:16:14,645 right? These are Jews are powerful, they're con in control of everything. 291 00:16:14,745 --> 00:16:18,765 So how can we be vulnerable, you know, if we are powerful? 292 00:16:19,355 --> 00:16:21,125 Does anybody not believe your stories? 293 00:16:21,385 --> 00:16:23,285 If you ever had someone not believe your story. 294 00:16:23,545 --> 00:16:27,725 Uh, about, uh, no. Actually, once people hear. 295 00:16:28,685 --> 00:16:29,515 Interesting, they. 296 00:16:29,515 --> 00:16:31,045 Obviously know that wouldn't happen. 297 00:16:31,705 --> 00:16:36,285 So that's firing then to say it works. Yeah, it works. It works. Okay. 298 00:16:36,625 --> 00:16:38,005 Tip number one, tell the story. 299 00:16:38,115 --> 00:16:41,405 Well, and, and as someone who's not Jewish, I mean, my wife is, you know, 300 00:16:41,405 --> 00:16:45,445 I've kind of come into it in a sense. Um, it does, 301 00:16:46,555 --> 00:16:50,525 growing up it felt like a not American problem. Antisemitism, right? 302 00:16:50,525 --> 00:16:54,605 Like it's a European thing. Um, it, it doesn't really exist here. 303 00:16:54,625 --> 00:16:57,315 And it, it couldn't be farther from the truth. 304 00:16:57,885 --> 00:17:00,235 Kai's got the Nebraska roots going on there too. 305 00:17:00,875 --> 00:17:01,515 Nebraska Lutheran. 306 00:17:01,515 --> 00:17:03,675 Roots Lutheran is my background too, growing up. Yeah. 307 00:17:03,725 --> 00:17:06,235 Which is what I, I know you come from a Lutheran background. Yeah. 308 00:17:06,585 --> 00:17:08,675 Tell the story. I had a call from a, 309 00:17:08,795 --> 00:17:12,875 a longtime friend of mine who's also a pastor, and he, 310 00:17:13,665 --> 00:17:17,995 like I am, you know, it's concerned about the loss of life in Gaza. 311 00:17:18,295 --> 00:17:21,995 And he's, he said, I don't know what to say. I said something. 312 00:17:21,995 --> 00:17:25,155 And then somebody said, I was anti-Semitic for saying that, 313 00:17:25,375 --> 00:17:29,195 and help me understand. Uh, and, and I said, well, this is, 314 00:17:29,555 --> 00:17:34,155 I tried to explain to him how people might hear what, what, what he is saying. 315 00:17:34,495 --> 00:17:39,275 But I think it's also so important not to rush to judgment. Mm-Hmm. 316 00:17:39,315 --> 00:17:43,275 about people. He really, he truly was trying to wrestle with. 317 00:17:43,615 --> 00:17:46,755 You know, he condemned what happened on October 7th, 318 00:17:47,335 --> 00:17:50,605 and at the same time he's worried for the innocent people in, 319 00:17:50,905 --> 00:17:55,565 in Gaza who are being affected. And so I said, you know, maybe we don't rush to, 320 00:17:56,095 --> 00:18:00,165 maybe it's okay to say we hold both truths in our heart that what happened on 321 00:18:00,165 --> 00:18:01,725 October 7th was evil. 322 00:18:02,175 --> 00:18:06,605 Think about what we've been through with George Floyd, the police officers, 323 00:18:07,305 --> 00:18:09,405 the horrific, I mean, that, 324 00:18:09,515 --> 00:18:13,925 that goes so much bigger than what you said the tip two about I need to learn 325 00:18:13,955 --> 00:18:16,845 more. And, you know, clearly that's our passion. 326 00:18:16,845 --> 00:18:19,885 That's why I'm so grateful for you being here today, is just help us learn more. 327 00:18:19,885 --> 00:18:23,485 Yeah. I need to know more. Right. I need to understand more. Right. You know, 328 00:18:23,525 --> 00:18:26,925 I need to look it on a map. I need to understand more go to a class. Right. 329 00:18:26,925 --> 00:18:27,605 Exactly. And. 330 00:18:27,605 --> 00:18:31,205 So this minister invited me to come and speak to, uh, his, 331 00:18:31,505 --> 00:18:35,445 he teaches a big class and he asked me to come and speak to them about. 332 00:18:35,985 --> 00:18:38,725 But I, I have a hard question for you. You read, okay. 333 00:18:39,225 --> 00:18:44,205 How do you think you became an R and your reputation and your persona is 334 00:18:44,745 --> 00:18:45,578 so inclusive? 335 00:18:46,235 --> 00:18:51,205 What is the secret sauce that you learned that people feel so welcome? 336 00:18:51,605 --> 00:18:53,445 I think because I know what it feels to be. 337 00:18:54,365 --> 00:18:58,715 I know what it feels like to be an outsider. Right. I'm, I'm not, 338 00:18:58,915 --> 00:19:01,475 I don't fully fit. I mean, I've always, I, 339 00:19:01,675 --> 00:19:04,555 I don't know if you're there when I gave that sermon about being a shiksa, 340 00:19:04,695 --> 00:19:09,075 easily identified as somebody who wasn't born Mm-Hmm. Jewish. Um, 341 00:19:09,695 --> 00:19:12,475 and I also really resonate with the, 342 00:19:12,475 --> 00:19:15,995 that strain in our tradition that says that we are all, 343 00:19:17,125 --> 00:19:21,875 we're all the same humanity. Right. And, um, 344 00:19:22,595 --> 00:19:27,475 I, I work against it like feeling like we need to be divided into tribes. 345 00:19:27,805 --> 00:19:30,195 Right? I think that people are people. 346 00:19:30,755 --> 00:19:34,155 I I also believe that people are basically good. 347 00:19:34,155 --> 00:19:37,235 That there are some people who never, who, who maybe are beyond, 348 00:19:37,255 --> 00:19:38,995 who can't stop hating. And, 349 00:19:39,095 --> 00:19:42,475 but I think many people are just confused or they don't know enough. 350 00:19:42,675 --> 00:19:44,075 I feel as if I need to be patient. 351 00:19:44,775 --> 00:19:47,635 Giving somebody the benefit of the doubt is kind of what you said before. 352 00:19:47,815 --> 00:19:49,355 The benefit of the doubt and which is a, 353 00:19:49,555 --> 00:19:51,715 a Jewish value to give the benefit of the doubt. 354 00:19:52,055 --> 00:19:53,635 It requires a lot of patience. It. 355 00:19:53,635 --> 00:19:56,395 Requires a lot of patience and, and not, um, reacting, 356 00:19:56,395 --> 00:20:01,155 rather taking the moment to breathe and then respond. 357 00:20:01,665 --> 00:20:03,315 Yeah. And that's, 358 00:20:03,315 --> 00:20:07,355 that's what I learned through like Black Lives Matter and Me Too. 'cause I, 359 00:20:07,475 --> 00:20:11,715 I found myself like on social media just blasting my opinion into a black hole 360 00:20:11,935 --> 00:20:16,795 and clogging up the gears for the voices who needed to be 361 00:20:16,795 --> 00:20:19,235 heard. Mm-Hmm. . And I, what I learned is to listen, 362 00:20:19,305 --> 00:20:22,835 like you were saying, listen to these stories, listen, and, 363 00:20:22,895 --> 00:20:26,675 and take that as lead. Um, repeat what they're saying. 364 00:20:26,855 --> 00:20:28,955 So I I appreciate you saying that. Please. 365 00:20:29,335 --> 00:20:32,715 One of the things that I also learned most recently is I had a, 366 00:20:32,835 --> 00:20:37,115 a Christian woman come up to me after the antisemitism program and say, 367 00:20:37,555 --> 00:20:40,995 I hear, you know, when people say things about Jews in my, 368 00:20:41,255 --> 00:20:44,555 I'm not sure how to respond, respond. I feel like I wanna say something, 369 00:20:44,555 --> 00:20:48,045 but I feel like I'm free. I freeze up. So I said to her, well, 370 00:20:48,045 --> 00:20:51,085 maybe it's enough to say, um, pardon me. 371 00:20:51,395 --> 00:20:53,045 Yeah. Or that's weird. , I'd. 372 00:20:53,045 --> 00:20:55,565 Have that person repeat what they said. Yeah. 373 00:20:55,585 --> 00:20:57,685 And then maybe hear what they're saying. Yeah. 374 00:20:58,145 --> 00:20:59,485 She found that tremendously helpful. 375 00:20:59,725 --> 00:21:01,285 I like that. Excuse me. What did, excuse. 376 00:21:01,285 --> 00:21:01,495 Me. 377 00:21:01,495 --> 00:21:04,285 Could you, could you elaborate? Yeah, I like that. Yeah. 378 00:21:04,425 --> 00:21:07,205 That's funny. Very clever. What are you, 379 00:21:07,205 --> 00:21:10,045 what are you telling parents today about sending kids to college? 380 00:21:10,715 --> 00:21:15,085 Well, um, I'm telling kids, 381 00:21:15,545 --> 00:21:20,365 or I'm telling parents to go to a place that has a Jewish 382 00:21:20,365 --> 00:21:24,565 community. 'cause I think that's really important. Right. Um, 383 00:21:25,625 --> 00:21:30,125 and I also really believe in kind of educating 384 00:21:30,985 --> 00:21:35,445 our young people about the complexities of the, 385 00:21:36,075 --> 00:21:39,365 they're gonna encounter the Israel Palestine conflict on campus. 386 00:21:39,795 --> 00:21:44,005 They should know about it in all its complexity. Mm-Hmm. , 387 00:21:44,005 --> 00:21:46,725 even the stuff that doesn't make Israel look good. Yeah. 388 00:21:46,725 --> 00:21:51,715 They should know about that before they go to campus. And, you know, 389 00:21:51,715 --> 00:21:54,755 that's what I do. I, I'm now teaching the high schoolers at, uh, 390 00:21:54,935 --> 00:21:58,155 at Temple Israel. Like, I, I have them all, but as you know, 391 00:21:58,375 --> 00:22:01,955 not everybody stays through through high school. So. Right. 392 00:22:01,975 --> 00:22:04,195 And, and, and yeah. I think that's interesting. I mean, 393 00:22:04,195 --> 00:22:07,315 one of the things I know we talk about is advocacy for education. 394 00:22:07,315 --> 00:22:10,155 Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. Our young people should know, uh, 395 00:22:10,215 --> 00:22:13,155 all the messiness of this conflict, um, 396 00:22:13,495 --> 00:22:16,795 so that they don't hear about it for the first time on campus. Yeah. 397 00:22:16,835 --> 00:22:19,075 I think my kids were lucky in that way, 398 00:22:19,425 --> 00:22:23,835 that they had grandparents that were refugees because they couldn't not know 399 00:22:23,835 --> 00:22:24,675 Mm-Hmm. . Right. I mean, 400 00:22:24,675 --> 00:22:26,835 they sat at a dinner table with different languages. Mm-Hmm. . 401 00:22:26,835 --> 00:22:29,995 So it was just, they had no choice to say like, why do you speak that word? 402 00:22:29,995 --> 00:22:32,155 You know, why did you come here? And Yes. I think, 403 00:22:32,475 --> 00:22:34,395 I think they were lucky air quotes around that. So. 404 00:22:34,575 --> 00:22:38,595 And, and my roots were avoiding conflict at all costs. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, 405 00:22:38,995 --> 00:22:42,315 like, you know, one, one thing I wanted to ask about is, which I, 406 00:22:42,875 --> 00:22:43,675 I either the, 407 00:22:43,675 --> 00:22:48,235 the rhetoric or how anti-Semitism gets talked about a lot is like 408 00:22:48,935 --> 00:22:53,515 to be anti-Israeli is anti-Semitism. 409 00:22:53,735 --> 00:22:55,835 You know, like what, what, what's your community? 410 00:22:55,975 --> 00:22:57,355 How are you guys talking about that? 411 00:22:57,555 --> 00:23:00,715 'cause that's for someone who's not Jewish reckoning, 412 00:23:00,715 --> 00:23:03,755 like you were saying with what's happening Mm-Hmm. , um, to not, 413 00:23:03,825 --> 00:23:08,475 doesn't make me anti-Semitic to disagree or feel pain, you know, 414 00:23:08,475 --> 00:23:09,355 for what's happening over. 415 00:23:09,355 --> 00:23:13,155 There. Yes. And that's a great question. Um, so I think there, there is a, 416 00:23:14,155 --> 00:23:18,995 a big difference between being critical of the actions of the government 417 00:23:19,055 --> 00:23:23,755 of Israel and saying that Israel doesn't have a right to 418 00:23:23,755 --> 00:23:26,715 exist as a result of those actions. You know, 419 00:23:26,715 --> 00:23:29,235 there were many years when I was critical of the, uh, 420 00:23:29,235 --> 00:23:32,075 actions of the government of the United States. You know, 421 00:23:32,395 --> 00:23:36,195 I would never say that we shouldn't, I I I still consider myself a, 422 00:23:36,275 --> 00:23:40,035 a proud American, you know, I believe in our ideals. But, and, 423 00:23:40,035 --> 00:23:40,835 and that's why this, 424 00:23:40,835 --> 00:23:45,565 this war is so tricky because calling and calling 425 00:23:45,665 --> 00:23:48,565 for a cease fire in Gaza, um, 426 00:23:49,185 --> 00:23:53,925 can be heard by Israel as let's let Hamas win. 427 00:23:54,625 --> 00:23:59,605 And we have Hamas leaders who say that there will be another Oct 428 00:23:59,605 --> 00:24:03,125 they'll keep doing October 7th, over and over, um, 429 00:24:03,455 --> 00:24:07,125 until Israel is wiped off the map. And so that's why, 430 00:24:07,305 --> 00:24:10,365 and that's why I explained to my friend the pastor, I said, 431 00:24:11,105 --> 00:24:13,565 that's how they hear that as anti-Semitic, 432 00:24:13,565 --> 00:24:18,045 is that you wanna enable an enemy who said their desire is to wipe 433 00:24:18,305 --> 00:24:23,165 Israel off the map. You wanna enable them to regroup and, 434 00:24:23,665 --> 00:24:25,405 um, you know, continue with their. 435 00:24:25,695 --> 00:24:28,525 Activities and, and, you know, war is horrible. It's, 436 00:24:28,855 --> 00:24:30,445 we're not comfortable talking about war. 437 00:24:30,505 --> 00:24:33,845 And I do think we have to start really talking about the atrocities, right? 438 00:24:33,845 --> 00:24:37,725 Yeah. Yeah. And not try to rush to a conclusion. Right. I think we are, 439 00:24:37,825 --> 00:24:42,765 we are strong enough to be able to hold all of the complexity and to hold 440 00:24:42,825 --> 00:24:45,325 all the truths in our hearts because it, 441 00:24:45,425 --> 00:24:49,445 it is true that what happened in my mind on October 7th was evil. 442 00:24:50,345 --> 00:24:55,245 And I am saddened by the loss of life in Gaza, 443 00:24:55,985 --> 00:24:57,205 though both things are true. 444 00:24:58,295 --> 00:25:02,925 Right. So last question. You must be exhausted. 445 00:25:03,235 --> 00:25:04,068 Yeah. 446 00:25:04,525 --> 00:25:05,145 I am. 447 00:25:05,145 --> 00:25:06,085 So what are you doing? 448 00:25:06,225 --> 00:25:09,445 How do you take care of yourself for those in your position? 449 00:25:09,835 --> 00:25:11,805 What are your words? 'cause you know, I, you know, 450 00:25:11,945 --> 00:25:14,125 we hear all the time just go outside and take a breath. Mm-Hmm. , 451 00:25:14,785 --> 00:25:18,365 I'm guessing that you're exhausted goes beyond just going outside and taking a 452 00:25:18,365 --> 00:25:22,565 breath. So self-care for the people like you, the frontline that are doing this. 453 00:25:22,675 --> 00:25:23,085 What do you. 454 00:25:23,085 --> 00:25:24,245 Do? So I feel, I, 455 00:25:24,385 --> 00:25:29,205 I'm fortunate in our tradition that I just came to 456 00:25:29,205 --> 00:25:32,125 this podcast from a rehearsal for a bar mitzvah. Right? 457 00:25:32,305 --> 00:25:36,685 That's a life affirming thing. The celebration of a, of a, you know, 458 00:25:36,845 --> 00:25:41,605 for this family. Um, we will be naming babies, we will be getting married, 459 00:25:41,705 --> 00:25:45,485 we will be continuing with life and remembering that, um, 460 00:25:45,945 --> 00:25:47,005 that's so important. 461 00:25:47,465 --> 00:25:48,645 So it plugs you back in. It. 462 00:25:48,645 --> 00:25:49,478 Plugs me back in. 463 00:25:49,705 --> 00:25:52,885 So I think what I hear you saying is we should go celebrate life. We. 464 00:25:52,885 --> 00:25:55,925 Should cel we have to celebrate life. I mean, 465 00:25:56,005 --> 00:25:59,085 I think that's really one of the reasons why we are still here as a people. 466 00:26:00,115 --> 00:26:04,685 Because even in, uh, you know, there, there's a story in, 467 00:26:04,905 --> 00:26:08,885 you know, that even in the concentration camp where they had very little food, 468 00:26:09,555 --> 00:26:13,925 they, uh, made sure to melt, you know, you know, they're, 469 00:26:13,925 --> 00:26:18,485 they're fat rations so they could light lights on Hanukkah. Um, 470 00:26:18,755 --> 00:26:21,725 because you can live for a time without food, 471 00:26:21,785 --> 00:26:23,765 but you can't live for any time without hope. 472 00:26:23,945 --> 00:26:28,325 And that's what's what our celebrations, uh, give us hope. 473 00:26:52,535 --> 00:26:55,785 This has been a production of balancing life's issues with your hosts, 474 00:26:55,925 --> 00:26:59,825 Kai Sorenson and Wendy Wallner, produced by me Kai Rate. 475 00:26:59,825 --> 00:27:03,785 Leave a review and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen so you can get 476 00:27:03,785 --> 00:27:07,945 brand new episodes as they drop. Got an idea for the show. Email me, 477 00:27:08,085 --> 00:27:12,065 ka i@balancinglifesissues.com. Anything to add? Miles.