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Welcome to Balancing Life's Issues,
the podcast that helps define work-life balance. I'm your host, Kai,
and I'm here with the c e o of b l I. Wendy Wallner. How are you today?
Good. Super excited to have this conversation. This is an edgy one, Kai.
. I know. Well, you know,
what I wanted to do is start kind of just talking about what's happening in the
work-life balance world, because that's what you've been doing mm-hmm.
for 30 years. Mm-hmm. . Um, but before we get there,
I just wanted to ask ya, you've been wearing two watches lately.
Yeah. I just.
What, what's, what's that all about? I.
Just took one off.
So which one did you go with? I.
Went with the Garmin,
which is quite causing quite the fervor in the work life world to, uh,
apple, uh, to put Apple away.
Uh, and, you know, why did, why did you go with Garmin? You.
Know,
I really am one of the people that's so committed to the idea of having it all.
Um, and it does segue into what we wanna talk about today, but, you know,
um, and it, today's a perfect day to have this conversation because, um,
I didn't sleep well. Mm. And the Garmin is so intuitive and has so,
so many settings that it, it, it, it gave me a message right away saying,
you know what, Wendy, you're gonna have to slow it down today. Yeah. Um,
and you're gonna have to give yourself more of a break. Um,
and be mindful that because I didn't sleep well,
I can't have a day like yesterday. Right. And so,
I think we all need as much help coaches, therapists, friends,
significant others who really do watch out for us. And my garmin's there for me,
it's, it's given me the message. Take it down a notch today.
Yeah. Take it down a notch. Yeah. I appreciate that. And, you know,
it's that kind of, that idea of the body battery we were talking about, right?
Yeah. So like, what,
what are you doing today to make sure that that battery's staying at a level
that gives you the energy to get through? Right. Get through your day. Yeah.
You know, speaking of getting through the day,
there's this article from Glamour Mag magazine uk and the headline,
and you're already smiling, the headline is,
lazy Girl Jobs might just be the secret to work-life balance.
So first I have to say, um, maybe this is a little arrogant,
but if you are a follower on our social media, I picked it up right away. Um,
I picked it up before the New York Times, before Wall Street Journal,
before any of the news stations. That's one of the things that I,
we pride ourselves here at B L I, that we're really, we're,
we're the best news clipping in the industry. We're the ones that are gonna, um,
tell you what you need to know. Mm-hmm. .
So I think that's the first thing that I saw this,
this entire controversy and debate coming. Um, and I think it's important,
Kai, that we send both, we set both sides up, and then I,
I'll share why I feel so strongly about one side.
So let's talk about why some people are loving this lazy girl idea.
I think it's the most brilliant thing ever. And by the way,
I think it's interesting is that theoretically it shouldn't be gender. Right?
Exactly. And that, that was, as I read through the article as a man,
I was kind of thinking that to myself, how am I, what, what,
what am I identifying with here, here? But really it's, you know,
it refers to administrative, remote working flexible roles,
which have a relatively decent.
Salary.
Now we're doing this today when Zoom just announced that they're making their
individuals, their employees go back to work. So how hilarious is it?
Yeah.
That zoom. Yeah. Supposedly working cutting edge is saying, no, no, no,
you can't work remotely. So that already throws a cringe into this whole idea.
Right. And I guess as the article defined it, administrative, remote, working,
flexible, decent salary,
I redefined that as fairly compensated for task driven roles that most people
don't want to do, and fewer are good at that offers proper work-life balance.
So I think the argument is that the way that we're operating today globally is
there are very few organizations where the best and the brightest can
have it all the way it's set up today,
there seems to be no option. And depe not,
doesn't matter how you identify sexuality or your age, or, or,
it just seems to me that those people are just done. They're just saying, no,
Wendy, you're wrong. I've tried it. And the world at work, even not-for-profits,
hospital settings, there's no choice for me except to do this lazy world
and to just coast. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I'm,
I'm not gonna disagree. I think we have to, as companies, small or big,
begin to reinvent everything, otherwise the best and the brightest,
they're gonna opt out.
Yeah. And, you know,
and if there is a job at your company that has little to no responsibility
and can afford someone to check out like that, whose fault is that? Right.
More often than not,
we look to the employee to blame the great resignation like this anti work
movement, but like.
Quitting.
Quiet, quitting you. Why is the workforce in, in this mindset?
Right.
You know what, I think it's really interesting. You know,
one of the things that I've always thought was so profound was, you know,
if you're a doctor every year you have to go back for training to keep your
license a dentist, um, a a plumber, an engineer. I mean, you could go on and on,
right? But me, as a C E O, theoretically,
I graduated from University of Pennsylvania, you know, grad school,
Syracuse undergrad. I never need to take another class. Right? I mean, I'm,
I'm supposedly done. Mm-hmm. I'm a cook, right. Chicken, I'm perfect.
I don't need, so that's the first thing is that, you know,
and now I know this is self, you know, self-promoting, right?
'cause I believe in education training, that's what we do.
But I start every morning listening to podcasts.
What do I need to learn today and how am I gonna change the organization?
And it's a little crazy, right? It's a little wild west here at B L I I,
I almost never know when anyone's on or working or not working. I mean,
you know, it's definitely a, you know,
and I can understand where certain leaders are gonna say that's just,
that's too much. I can't handle it. Um, I think, so to me,
this is a shout out to leaders in organization,
to managers in organizations to be very mindful of,
if we wanna get amazing people like Kai or his wife or my kids,
or any of these people that are really the ones that are gonna bring us into
the next phase of, of amazingness,
then we have to reinvent everything.
Right? Right. Which takes work. And, you know, I think you're,
you're speaking to the younger generation that's coming up that is stepping into
manager roles, that's stepping into C-level roles. Right. I,
I would argue most of that group is pushing back against
the traditional notions of what work is because.
They're not inspired anymore.
There's a bigger problem here that I wanna make sure. So, um,
let's just stop for a minute and say, congratulations,
you have a new little one in the world.
Oh, yes. Miles, Eric.
, miles Eric is coming into a world that we want to believe he
can, um, do whatever he wants and have it all mm-hmm.
and be proud of themselves. And my concern mostly,
and I interviewed, you know,
maybe 20 or 30 people in last week for today's podcast about this lazy,
is are they proud of themselves when they opt out?
Right.
And that got them thinking about what does it feel like to not be at their best?
And are they role modeling for the little ones in the world? Mm-hmm.
, you work super hard. You keep up, you know, your music and your,
um, your relationships and your in-laws, and you,
the list goes on and on and on. Right.
And that's what Maya is gonna see growing up.
He's gonna see a balanced person that understands
that you fill your cup up,
or we call 'em buckets over here in very different ways.
He's not gonna see a, a parent who just says, you know what mm-hmm.
, I'm done. And this is good enough. I think the word lazy,
and I know there's so much, you know, everyone's saying, oh,
we don't really mean lazy. Right. But you kind of do,
you're kind of saying, just go get your paycheck.
And that's a good thing because you have more energy, more body battery Yeah.
For everything else.
How are we role modeling for Miles that that's the best he can do?
Yeah. Well, I guess I would argue that being in the music industry, right?
That's, yeah. I went to school for music and, you know,
moved to New York City and I was doing the music thing.
All the jobs I had were in support of what I wanted to do musically and
creatively, right? Because mm-hmm. , it's a hard reality for, um,
musicians out there. Um, I would say, or creatives, artists, you know,
people in that realm. It doesn't really pay the bills. Um, it fills the soul.
Um, it makes you happy. Um, so you have to supplement that.
So I do think I'm in a, I'm in a unique category of,
call it lazy at that coffee job, right?
I cared about doing a good job there while I was at, at the barista gig, um,
helping pay rent. But ultimately my efforts and my,
my true passions lied somewhere else. Okay.
So wait, I would say to you,
that's really interesting because then maybe it's true that your music becomes
more of a hobby, right? Um, and if you read the next big,
the next big thing is that we are hobby shopping. Mm-hmm. . Um,
so yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna say everybody becomes, um, you know, oh,
I would date myself if I did a Rod Stewart. Right? Something.
Ah, Rod's still out there. Okay.
Perfect. . Um, but first of all, I just wanna say, you know, some,
there is a small, but some follow their love and they're, it does work, right?
Yeah. So the other problem, concern where I have about this lazy, um,
movement, this lazy girl movement is, um,
how many are going to stop when it gets hard?
Yeah.
Um, you know, so that's number one. And number two,
I think the other piece about it is that, you know,
you didn't wanna come over into the corporate world, right? Um mm-hmm.
. And,
and I think it's interesting that it's not all been what you've wanted.
Right? Right.
Um, it's not, you know, there are many meetings that are like, Ugh,
do I have to do that meeting again? Or, you know, right? Mm-hmm. ,
and you can talk to that, but you're not taking a lazy way out.
So there's a middle ground there that employee also has to meet, right?
Yeah. It just kind of seems though, at, at the end of the day as an employer,
right? I think a lot of our listeners are employers, are managers,
and we want to communicate how to communicate with
a generation that's coming into your workforce.
And parents.
And.
I love that we, that we do, and I did it yesterday for a very big client.
I made it clear that we always sit here wearing many different,
at every moment we're wearing, you know, not that one b l I podcast hat, right?
Right. Mm-hmm. . Um,
and even Miles at his whopping six weeks old is watching and listening and
hearing to every word you say. Right. And matter of fact,
there's some cultures who say they're born at one because they count in utero.
Yeah. They say, Hey, whatcha talking about,
they already developed a sense of the world mm-hmm. . And so, yeah.
I mean, one of the things I'm so proud of is that we work super hard.
Yeah. But hopefully on things that can continue
our passions, our beliefs.
And I really believe that if managers take a step back,
it doesn't matter what you do for a living,
it's how you see what you do for a living.
I've done so many amazing conversations for bus drivers in this country.
One of the populations that I love, because I know, you know, shout out to Mike,
our bus driver in our community. Who knew I was a single mom with three kids.
So I wanna tell a Mike bus story.
You got it. Can't wait.
Mike was there when I got divorced. My kids were very young, and they were six,
seven, and nine. And from a very young age, they,
they learned that Mike knew their schedule.
Did they need to bring their instrument that day?
Did they have their lunch money? You know, did,
could he check in with them about the sports schedules? And,
and Mike became part of our family. Mm-hmm. The fact,
fact that he happened to drive a bus really wasn't what he did for a living.
Right. What he did for a living was add to our community.
Yeah. Engage with the community, be there, support.
Care. And I think it's interesting, right, that the,
when I read these articles about this lazy girl,
it sounds like they're so emotionally detached from their world.
What kind of community are we gonna have?
Yeah. I mean, it is where you find yourself in a moment. And, you know,
granted everything we've experienced the last few years, you know,
I was somebody who had to quit my job because I had,
I had the space finally to understand how I didn't think I was being
fairly treated. Right. Long way of saying, here we are,
I'm being fairly treated because there's a work-life balance.
But it started with a conversation, Wendy,
and I think you often check in with me as an employee with all of our
employees. Um, there're often staff meetings you're like, like, let's talk guys.
Like how are you feeling? How are you balancing all this?
And I admire how you help the company pivot this way,
that way. So it's.
Always, it's, so, it's always good to talk to you, Kai.
'cause then there's a call to action. So the first thing is,
instead of doing this idea of an exit interview, which companies do you know,
you the, we should be focusing on a stay interview, right? Um mm-hmm.
. And, and it's what do I need to do to keep you here? Um,
and what do I need to do to keep you challenged? So not for every project,
because that's unrealistic. And we're, you know, we're adulting,
we are in the adult world. Yes. Right? Yes. , we are. So, you know,
but what do I need to do? That enough of it is, oh, you know what, yeah,
I have this today,
but I'm gonna fill my body battery and I wanna talk about something that's
important to me. Like I've been back to running, had a healthcare,
back to running. Everybody kind of knows I'm not really good at it,
but I'm back to running. 'cause we know our physical bodies first.
I was a little self-deprecating there. You're out there running. That's great.
Yes. Start there. Okay. Okay.
You know what, lemme tell you, the runner's out there,
you need to stop asking me my, my, my mile.
My mile. Minute mile. Yeah. It's.
Not a question, but, um, and,
and I love it because now the Garmin watch sends me,
you're an inspiration and love it. Love it. Right.
But I think what's interesting is for this conversation,
and maybe it's a good way to sort of sum up where we're going here,
is our mind is connected. Right? We're,
and we're just figuring that out in this culture.
Like when I was in Thailand or Egypt or some other cultures, you know,
the MINDBODY connection is 5,000 years old. It's who they're Sure part of it.
Right? Right. Um, I mean, they built the pyramids with no email, with no,
you know, they built the pyramid. Right?
Uh, some, some think that was the alien, but yes, go on.
Alright, I'll take the aliens. They built it without email.
They built without any That's fair.
But they built it because they also focus on intellectualism.
And it is the extreme opposite of lazy.
It's the extreme opposite of how hard it is to do something.
How challenged you are, how welcoming you are to really fail.
And that's all out of my comfort zone. Right? Yeah. But it's kind of cool.
Yeah. And I'm kind of getting excited about it,
and it's kind of charging my body battery. Yeah.
So I think it's interesting to think about it. It's not just our bodies,
it's our minds. And it's, it really is the exact opposite of being lazy.
Yeah. Yeah.
That call to action today is to go have that conversation with your employee,
have the have the stay interview. Yeah. Right. Um,
pay attention to what that inner dialogue is telling you about an employee and,
and go talk to 'em about that. And, and the more you can do that,
the more you can set the standard of transparency and open communication, I,
I believe the more, the more you'll get back. So, yeah.
Well, thank you all for joining. Really. Take a minute, share a comment,
argue with us. We love it. Yeah. Disagree with us. Tell us how we're wrong.
We'd love to hear how, how we're messed up. Um, absolutely most important.
Thanks for being here today.
Of course. And, and just a heads up, everyone, um, you know, speaking of Miles,
uh, we're gonna do an episode on postpartum depression coming up because,
you know, we've been sharing my story on social media about, you know,
the goods, like what's going great about, about, uh, having miles in our life.
But there is another side to that story, and we're gonna bring in an expert.
We're gonna talk about it. Um, because it,
it is a problem that affects one in eight women, uh, in this country is,
is postpartum depression. So, uh, look forward to that episode,
that conversation. Um, and that should be drop in, in within the next week,
so long as miles is sleeping enough, uh,
to give me the time I need in the morning, uh, to make it happen.
Yeah. And cutting edge with that new medicine coming out.
So I'm looking forward to it. So thanks everybody. Yep.
Until next time, everyone. Take care.
This has been a production of Balancing Life's Issues with your host,
Wendy Wollner, produced by me, Kai Sorenson.
Subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and you'll get brand new episodes
as they drop. Got an idea for the show.
Leave a comment or email Kai k i@balancinglifesissues.com.