1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,059 This is where health insurance leadership comes together. 2 00:00:05,279 --> 00:00:09,039 Becker's fourth annual spring payer issues roundtable brings 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,259 together over 400 payer and health plan executives 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,574 and more than 100 speakers to Chicago April. 5 00:00:16,875 --> 00:00:19,755 This year's event includes keynote conversations with the 6 00:00:19,755 --> 00:00:23,035 industry's top leaders and former president George W. 7 00:00:23,035 --> 00:00:25,675 Bush. For the full agenda and event details, 8 00:00:25,675 --> 00:00:27,870 visit beckershospitalreview.com 9 00:00:27,949 --> 00:00:29,310 and click on the events tab in the 10 00:00:29,310 --> 00:00:31,470 upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you 11 00:00:31,470 --> 00:00:32,609 here in Chicago. 12 00:00:33,950 --> 00:00:35,870 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Becker's Healthcare 13 00:00:35,870 --> 00:00:38,510 podcast. I'm Scott King. Thrilled today to be 14 00:00:38,510 --> 00:00:40,734 joined by a very special guest, Eric c 15 00:00:40,734 --> 00:00:44,175 Hunter, president and chief executive officer over at 16 00:00:44,175 --> 00:00:44,675 CareOregon. 17 00:00:45,135 --> 00:00:46,414 Eric, how are you doing? Thanks so much 18 00:00:46,414 --> 00:00:48,975 for joining us. Appreciate you. I'm doing great, 19 00:00:48,975 --> 00:00:51,135 Scott. Thank you for having me on. Appreciate 20 00:00:51,135 --> 00:00:53,054 it. Of course. And look. We have a 21 00:00:53,054 --> 00:00:55,670 lot of big topics in in health care 22 00:00:55,729 --> 00:00:57,490 and, you know, with health plans to get 23 00:00:57,490 --> 00:00:58,690 to. But before I do that, I was 24 00:00:58,690 --> 00:01:00,370 wondering if you could just please tell us 25 00:01:00,370 --> 00:01:02,210 a little bit about your, your background and 26 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:05,090 your career journey. Sure. My, my career started 27 00:01:05,090 --> 00:01:07,694 in an odd way as a petroleum engineering 28 00:01:07,694 --> 00:01:10,275 major in Tulsa, Oklahoma back in the eighties. 29 00:01:10,974 --> 00:01:12,895 Not the best career choice with what happened 30 00:01:12,895 --> 00:01:15,295 to the industry. So and played with politics 31 00:01:15,295 --> 00:01:16,734 for a while, ended up working for a 32 00:01:16,734 --> 00:01:18,594 governor in or in Oklahoma, 33 00:01:19,614 --> 00:01:22,275 and that governor implemented Medicaid managed care. 34 00:01:22,790 --> 00:01:24,469 And so working with him on that and 35 00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:25,909 then later the state agency that stood it 36 00:01:25,909 --> 00:01:27,269 up is how I got into the health 37 00:01:27,269 --> 00:01:29,209 care business from petroleum engineering. 38 00:01:30,709 --> 00:01:32,090 I've done stints at 39 00:01:32,629 --> 00:01:35,509 national entities, Shower Anderson. I was in multiple 40 00:01:35,509 --> 00:01:36,810 states with Shower Anderson. 41 00:01:37,525 --> 00:01:39,305 Aetna purchased them years ago, 42 00:01:39,924 --> 00:01:41,685 did a stint at Centene for a couple 43 00:01:41,685 --> 00:01:42,344 of years, 44 00:01:43,045 --> 00:01:44,265 was a market leader, 45 00:01:44,644 --> 00:01:47,364 for value options behavioral health care in Illinois 46 00:01:47,364 --> 00:01:48,104 and in Texas. 47 00:01:48,805 --> 00:01:50,905 Then before here, I was the chief operations 48 00:01:50,965 --> 00:01:53,820 officer at Boston Medical Center Health Net Plan, 49 00:01:53,820 --> 00:01:55,520 which is now Wellsys Health Plan. 50 00:01:55,980 --> 00:01:58,140 And ten years ago, I was privileged to 51 00:01:58,140 --> 00:01:58,640 be, 52 00:01:59,659 --> 00:02:02,780 recruited and signed to come to CareOregon where 53 00:02:02,780 --> 00:02:04,780 I where I am, and I'm loving loving 54 00:02:04,780 --> 00:02:05,840 the work we do. 55 00:02:06,534 --> 00:02:08,215 Yeah. Appreciate you sharing all that background info. 56 00:02:08,215 --> 00:02:10,215 You certainly had a a lot of unique 57 00:02:10,215 --> 00:02:12,534 experience that helps you give a a unique 58 00:02:12,534 --> 00:02:15,495 perspective on everything going on. So the first 59 00:02:15,495 --> 00:02:17,735 topic I wanna get to, Eric, is how 60 00:02:17,735 --> 00:02:19,995 are your relationships with providers changing 61 00:02:20,455 --> 00:02:21,835 as both sides face 62 00:02:22,159 --> 00:02:24,020 cost pressure and workforce shortages? 63 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,639 I think for everyone, there are there are 64 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,280 new challenges. But for us, it's more acute 65 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:29,780 because 66 00:02:30,319 --> 00:02:33,379 CareOregon was started thirty two years ago now 67 00:02:33,599 --> 00:02:35,219 by provider organizations, 68 00:02:36,084 --> 00:02:38,344 local safety net community organizations, FQHCs, 69 00:02:38,645 --> 00:02:39,625 teaching hospital. 70 00:02:40,004 --> 00:02:42,245 And so we've typically been provider centric in 71 00:02:42,245 --> 00:02:43,384 everything we do. 72 00:02:43,925 --> 00:02:45,625 But this this new reality 73 00:02:46,084 --> 00:02:48,340 has forced us to have to make tough 74 00:02:48,340 --> 00:02:50,979 choices. And you talk about changing that relationship 75 00:02:50,979 --> 00:02:52,599 so that it it really is more 76 00:02:53,139 --> 00:02:53,639 about, 77 00:02:54,659 --> 00:02:56,900 enabling each other, empowering each other to do 78 00:02:56,900 --> 00:02:57,800 more with less, 79 00:02:58,900 --> 00:02:59,400 coordinating 80 00:02:59,699 --> 00:03:00,199 care 81 00:03:00,594 --> 00:03:01,334 more efficiently, 82 00:03:02,114 --> 00:03:05,395 aligning payment methodologies with quality and performance, not 83 00:03:05,395 --> 00:03:08,534 just widgets and moving revenue around, 84 00:03:09,074 --> 00:03:10,215 to support the providers 85 00:03:10,594 --> 00:03:12,055 in the core. So, 86 00:03:12,594 --> 00:03:14,194 that's really been the big change is that 87 00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:15,175 we've had to think 88 00:03:15,569 --> 00:03:16,310 less about 89 00:03:17,009 --> 00:03:17,509 codependency 90 00:03:18,610 --> 00:03:19,750 and more about, 91 00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:23,729 aligning better to get much greater quality and 92 00:03:23,729 --> 00:03:25,650 and performance so that we can serve more 93 00:03:25,650 --> 00:03:26,150 people. 94 00:03:26,689 --> 00:03:28,689 Eric, does it also just kind of start 95 00:03:28,689 --> 00:03:30,370 with, you know, in a general sense that 96 00:03:30,370 --> 00:03:30,870 both 97 00:03:31,305 --> 00:03:33,625 payers and providers are both up against so 98 00:03:33,625 --> 00:03:36,125 much now and certainly in terms of, 99 00:03:36,664 --> 00:03:38,344 of regulatory matters? Is it is it just 100 00:03:38,344 --> 00:03:40,185 kind of understanding where each site is right 101 00:03:40,185 --> 00:03:42,125 now and and the difficulties they're facing? 102 00:03:42,745 --> 00:03:44,424 I think one of the challenges is finding 103 00:03:44,424 --> 00:03:45,324 ways to 104 00:03:45,944 --> 00:03:46,444 identify 105 00:03:47,050 --> 00:03:48,889 where those barriers can be broken down. Because 106 00:03:48,889 --> 00:03:50,909 even when we talk about regulatory matters, 107 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:52,650 there are a lot of things we have 108 00:03:52,650 --> 00:03:53,310 in common 109 00:03:53,689 --> 00:03:54,669 with the providers, 110 00:03:55,770 --> 00:03:56,509 and how 111 00:03:56,889 --> 00:03:59,775 states and the regulatory agencies deal with 112 00:04:00,414 --> 00:04:00,914 matters 113 00:04:01,534 --> 00:04:03,875 of merger and acquisition or ownership 114 00:04:04,414 --> 00:04:05,155 or staffing. 115 00:04:06,014 --> 00:04:07,555 You know, those kind of pressures, 116 00:04:08,014 --> 00:04:08,914 hit us both 117 00:04:09,454 --> 00:04:12,034 because they add sort of undue pressures on 118 00:04:12,254 --> 00:04:13,634 the delivery of care 119 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,360 and then increase costs across the board, which 120 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,480 is then feed up into, ultimately, the Medicaid 121 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,560 business, greater state spending. And so how do 122 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,040 you manage all that and make sure that 123 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,220 everyone understands the implications of 124 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:27,899 right minded 125 00:04:28,574 --> 00:04:30,754 thought processes, you know, protecting 126 00:04:31,134 --> 00:04:33,694 the public dollar, protecting members. But at the 127 00:04:33,694 --> 00:04:35,134 end of the day, everything has to fit 128 00:04:35,134 --> 00:04:37,214 together so that it's all sustainable. And that's 129 00:04:37,214 --> 00:04:38,334 the challenge we have when we have to 130 00:04:38,334 --> 00:04:40,035 work together to solve some of that. 131 00:04:40,509 --> 00:04:42,290 Where do you see the biggest gap today 132 00:04:42,430 --> 00:04:44,529 between payer strategy and operational 133 00:04:45,149 --> 00:04:45,649 execution? 134 00:04:46,830 --> 00:04:48,990 For for plans particularly about the size of 135 00:04:48,990 --> 00:04:51,310 CareOregon, we're not small by any means, but 136 00:04:51,310 --> 00:04:53,410 we're not a big national either. 137 00:04:54,014 --> 00:04:56,675 It's it's really that gap between the ambition 138 00:04:56,735 --> 00:04:58,415 we have for what we wanna do to 139 00:04:58,415 --> 00:05:00,115 transform the system fundamentally 140 00:05:00,975 --> 00:05:03,214 and the infrastructure to do that, to pull 141 00:05:03,214 --> 00:05:04,995 that off, whether it's, 142 00:05:05,774 --> 00:05:07,789 the work we can do with with 143 00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:12,189 AI, to reduce administrative burdens or the creativity 144 00:05:12,569 --> 00:05:14,909 necessary to manage the data around 145 00:05:15,289 --> 00:05:17,610 true total cost of care or value based 146 00:05:17,610 --> 00:05:18,589 contract agreements 147 00:05:18,970 --> 00:05:20,110 that take into consideration 148 00:05:21,035 --> 00:05:23,675 not just the numbers of services provided, but, 149 00:05:23,995 --> 00:05:26,235 the quality of those services, the outcomes of 150 00:05:26,235 --> 00:05:29,274 those services, and tying all that in ways 151 00:05:29,274 --> 00:05:31,995 that everyone can see it and believe the 152 00:05:31,995 --> 00:05:34,394 numbers and coordinate on them. I think those 153 00:05:34,394 --> 00:05:35,675 are those are the big gaps. So they're 154 00:05:35,675 --> 00:05:37,889 really about the infrastructure being 155 00:05:38,269 --> 00:05:39,410 designed and built 156 00:05:39,949 --> 00:05:42,610 and pushed out so that everyone has visibility 157 00:05:42,669 --> 00:05:43,729 into what's happening. 158 00:05:44,909 --> 00:05:47,389 What's one investment or initiative you believe will 159 00:05:47,389 --> 00:05:49,970 most reshape how health plans operate 160 00:05:50,430 --> 00:05:51,949 over the next two to three years, you 161 00:05:51,949 --> 00:05:52,245 think? 162 00:05:53,524 --> 00:05:55,604 I think when talking about how the system 163 00:05:55,604 --> 00:05:57,704 needs to manage, really, again, AI 164 00:05:58,165 --> 00:06:00,425 comes into play. And not necessarily to replace 165 00:06:00,564 --> 00:06:03,365 human beings, but to augment the work that 166 00:06:03,365 --> 00:06:05,830 people are doing either at the payer or 167 00:06:05,830 --> 00:06:06,730 at the provider. 168 00:06:07,270 --> 00:06:09,529 How do we leverage data and information 169 00:06:10,069 --> 00:06:12,410 so that people are empowered to identify 170 00:06:13,110 --> 00:06:15,930 ways to engage patients and members better to, 171 00:06:16,310 --> 00:06:18,150 be more efficient in how we work with 172 00:06:18,150 --> 00:06:20,574 them to get the information we need at 173 00:06:20,574 --> 00:06:22,274 the right time to the right people. 174 00:06:22,974 --> 00:06:25,534 It's not it's not cheap to develop those 175 00:06:25,534 --> 00:06:26,034 systems. 176 00:06:26,654 --> 00:06:27,854 There are a lot of vendors that they 177 00:06:27,854 --> 00:06:29,235 can say they can do it easily, 178 00:06:29,854 --> 00:06:31,774 but even those folks are gonna cost you 179 00:06:31,774 --> 00:06:34,194 a pretty penny. And right now, the resources 180 00:06:34,254 --> 00:06:36,229 are pretty scarce. So being able to make 181 00:06:36,229 --> 00:06:36,889 the investment 182 00:06:37,509 --> 00:06:39,209 to move forward on that front, 183 00:06:39,589 --> 00:06:40,870 means we have to be that much more 184 00:06:40,870 --> 00:06:42,789 efficient in the work we're doing now and 185 00:06:42,789 --> 00:06:44,649 maybe even cut some cut some corners. 186 00:06:45,750 --> 00:06:47,849 If you could change one regulatory or industry 187 00:06:47,910 --> 00:06:48,410 practice 188 00:06:49,024 --> 00:06:51,524 tomorrow to improve affordability and access, 189 00:06:51,904 --> 00:06:53,204 what would it be and why? 190 00:06:53,904 --> 00:06:55,104 I believe to improve, 191 00:06:55,504 --> 00:06:57,204 affordable and access from a 192 00:06:57,664 --> 00:06:59,985 from a rule standpoint, it really is about 193 00:06:59,985 --> 00:07:00,485 how 194 00:07:01,024 --> 00:07:02,884 how states again see 195 00:07:03,620 --> 00:07:04,519 their role 196 00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:05,560 as 197 00:07:06,099 --> 00:07:06,759 the protector 198 00:07:07,060 --> 00:07:07,879 of of 199 00:07:08,339 --> 00:07:10,199 commerce, of industry, of of, 200 00:07:10,579 --> 00:07:11,959 you know, public benefit 201 00:07:12,419 --> 00:07:14,740 with the need to micromanage industries they don't 202 00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:16,519 understand and put hurdles 203 00:07:16,979 --> 00:07:19,004 in front of us that that makes it 204 00:07:19,004 --> 00:07:20,764 more difficult to do the work, particularly in 205 00:07:20,764 --> 00:07:23,165 tough times. For instance, you know, merger and 206 00:07:23,165 --> 00:07:26,625 acquisition laws, certificates of need laws, staffing rules. 207 00:07:27,004 --> 00:07:28,764 A lot of those things are are well 208 00:07:28,764 --> 00:07:30,064 meaning and well intentioned, 209 00:07:30,685 --> 00:07:33,600 but they they they reduce the ability of 210 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,360 the providers and the payers to actually do 211 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:36,800 the work they need to do to serve 212 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,720 the patients. And and being able to take 213 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,100 a step back from that, 214 00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:42,740 collectively and working with the states, 215 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:45,520 would be really, really critical to being able 216 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:46,900 to make this work long term. 217 00:07:47,785 --> 00:07:49,384 Yeah. That's interesting. So a lot of those 218 00:07:49,384 --> 00:07:51,224 those rules in place actually kinda get in 219 00:07:51,224 --> 00:07:52,204 the way of, 220 00:07:52,904 --> 00:07:55,305 payers and providers reaching an agreement, and then 221 00:07:55,305 --> 00:07:57,625 now you're you're kinda have to look for 222 00:07:57,625 --> 00:07:59,704 certain workarounds. Is that basically what you're saying, 223 00:07:59,704 --> 00:08:00,204 Eric? 224 00:08:00,729 --> 00:08:02,509 That is. There there are times when, 225 00:08:03,129 --> 00:08:05,689 you're required to make a certain payment level 226 00:08:05,689 --> 00:08:08,490 or hire certain staffing levels at the provider 227 00:08:08,490 --> 00:08:08,990 level. 228 00:08:09,529 --> 00:08:11,050 That means they need more people. They need 229 00:08:11,050 --> 00:08:13,370 more revenue from the payers to do that 230 00:08:13,370 --> 00:08:13,754 work. 231 00:08:14,634 --> 00:08:16,875 You know, where's the is there value in 232 00:08:16,875 --> 00:08:19,035 that to the care the members receive, or 233 00:08:19,035 --> 00:08:21,595 is it because someone feels better because those 234 00:08:21,595 --> 00:08:24,095 positions exist or they think there's better work 235 00:08:24,154 --> 00:08:26,415 when it could be about efficiencies and technology 236 00:08:26,634 --> 00:08:29,240 and and policies that really drives the work 237 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:29,740 instead. 238 00:08:30,759 --> 00:08:32,220 Some of the mergers and acquisition 239 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,740 rules, some of the corporate practices of medicine 240 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:37,659 rules that 241 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:39,179 can be overreaching 242 00:08:40,355 --> 00:08:43,154 and impact abilities of providers and payers to 243 00:08:43,154 --> 00:08:43,975 work together, 244 00:08:44,514 --> 00:08:46,214 to find value based solutions. 245 00:08:46,834 --> 00:08:48,214 But there's forced separation, 246 00:08:49,315 --> 00:08:51,095 that that really is less about 247 00:08:52,034 --> 00:08:54,299 the effect efficacy of doing the work 248 00:08:54,779 --> 00:08:58,000 and and more about the appearance of impropriety. 249 00:08:58,379 --> 00:09:00,379 You know, hold folks accountable, hammer them if 250 00:09:00,379 --> 00:09:02,700 they do wrong, but but give the industry 251 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:03,679 the the flexibility 252 00:09:04,379 --> 00:09:05,500 to do what we need to do to 253 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:06,320 make it work. 254 00:09:07,644 --> 00:09:09,404 What issue is putting the most pressure on 255 00:09:09,404 --> 00:09:11,264 health system margins right now, 256 00:09:11,644 --> 00:09:13,644 and and how are you responding differently or 257 00:09:13,644 --> 00:09:16,125 or going to respond differently in as 2026 258 00:09:16,125 --> 00:09:16,945 plays out? 259 00:09:17,804 --> 00:09:20,365 With the bulk of CareOregon's work being in 260 00:09:20,365 --> 00:09:21,024 the Medicaid 261 00:09:21,710 --> 00:09:23,889 space, it really is the 262 00:09:24,350 --> 00:09:25,649 the clash of 263 00:09:26,830 --> 00:09:29,649 intentional utilization increases for some areas, 264 00:09:30,190 --> 00:09:33,410 particularly in behavioral health, substance use disorder treatment. 265 00:09:33,514 --> 00:09:35,355 Those are those are critical crises in our 266 00:09:35,355 --> 00:09:37,434 communities right now. We have to fund and 267 00:09:37,434 --> 00:09:39,215 provide services for those services, 268 00:09:39,914 --> 00:09:41,534 but the rates that we're paid 269 00:09:41,914 --> 00:09:43,934 to manage them aren't keeping up. 270 00:09:44,955 --> 00:09:46,975 The coordinated care model in Oregon, 271 00:09:47,274 --> 00:09:48,575 received a pretty hefty 272 00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:52,159 rate increase for 2026 that still doesn't necessarily 273 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:53,539 cover the costs of 274 00:09:54,079 --> 00:09:54,579 implemented 275 00:09:55,519 --> 00:09:58,819 rate increases and access and capacity increases 276 00:09:59,279 --> 00:10:01,199 that have people actually getting in for care 277 00:10:01,199 --> 00:10:01,939 they need, 278 00:10:02,534 --> 00:10:03,835 but it's not sustainable 279 00:10:04,214 --> 00:10:06,134 unless we find that right balance. And so 280 00:10:06,134 --> 00:10:06,875 that's really, 281 00:10:07,495 --> 00:10:09,654 for us, the greatest pressure on our margins 282 00:10:09,654 --> 00:10:11,014 is there's only so much we can do 283 00:10:11,014 --> 00:10:11,514 administratively 284 00:10:12,214 --> 00:10:12,875 or operationally 285 00:10:13,735 --> 00:10:16,455 if we're paying out a dollar and 10ยข 286 00:10:16,455 --> 00:10:18,639 for every dollar we get in in rates. 287 00:10:19,179 --> 00:10:20,860 So that's really the the challenge we have 288 00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:23,259 right now is the right sizing the rates 289 00:10:23,259 --> 00:10:25,419 with the benefits provided so that we can 290 00:10:25,419 --> 00:10:27,200 actually provide quality care. 291 00:10:28,059 --> 00:10:29,580 And the last question I wanted to ask 292 00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:31,820 you, Eric, you know, now certainly more than 293 00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:32,320 ever, 294 00:10:32,714 --> 00:10:34,794 the right kind of leadership, the strong leadership 295 00:10:34,794 --> 00:10:36,475 is needed in health care. So I just 296 00:10:36,475 --> 00:10:38,315 wanted to ask you, you know, the course 297 00:10:38,315 --> 00:10:39,674 of your career and up to now, how 298 00:10:39,674 --> 00:10:41,615 is how have you evolved as a leader? 299 00:10:42,554 --> 00:10:44,394 You know, that that's a great question. I 300 00:10:44,394 --> 00:10:45,134 believe that 301 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,299 coming from an engineering background, I was about 302 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,679 policy and procedure, nuts and bolts, blocking and 303 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,860 tackling as the the key to success. 304 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:56,459 Now there's there's much more nuance required. 305 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,220 There are much more 306 00:10:59,534 --> 00:11:01,934 much more opportunity to trade off and to 307 00:11:01,934 --> 00:11:03,235 bargain and to negotiate, 308 00:11:04,414 --> 00:11:06,815 bringing the best people, the best minds into 309 00:11:06,815 --> 00:11:08,894 the room, and finding solution that that truly 310 00:11:08,894 --> 00:11:10,434 is a win win. It's not a competitive 311 00:11:10,495 --> 00:11:10,995 business. 312 00:11:11,855 --> 00:11:12,834 I don't know that 313 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:15,620 that Medicaid managed care in particular should be 314 00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:17,559 a competitive or profit business anyway. 315 00:11:18,420 --> 00:11:20,519 But, but looking at it as a partnership 316 00:11:21,059 --> 00:11:23,320 with the provider systems and the states, 317 00:11:24,179 --> 00:11:26,759 the hospitals and the nurses associations 318 00:11:27,139 --> 00:11:30,154 to say, collectively, with find common ground and 319 00:11:30,154 --> 00:11:30,654 build 320 00:11:31,355 --> 00:11:31,855 sustainable 321 00:11:32,955 --> 00:11:33,455 structures 322 00:11:33,995 --> 00:11:35,995 that can weather these storms that are happening 323 00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:37,274 now. And so a lot of my career 324 00:11:37,274 --> 00:11:39,834 has been less about managing direct care and 325 00:11:39,834 --> 00:11:40,575 more about 326 00:11:41,115 --> 00:11:41,615 convening 327 00:11:42,190 --> 00:11:45,250 folks together, creating entities and organizations and alliances 328 00:11:45,710 --> 00:11:47,470 that are gonna move the needle. And that 329 00:11:47,550 --> 00:11:48,670 that's where I spend a lot of my 330 00:11:48,670 --> 00:11:49,649 time these days. 331 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:52,509 Well, Eric, thanks so much for sharing your 332 00:11:52,509 --> 00:11:53,570 insight and perspectives 333 00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:55,629 and and joining the podcast. We're really looking 334 00:11:55,629 --> 00:11:57,290 forward to having you speak at the spring 335 00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:59,500 payer issues roundtable. So, looking forward to that, 336 00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:01,500 and and thanks so much. Thank you, Scott. 337 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:02,560 Looking forward to it.