1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,980 This is where health insurance leadership comes together. 2 00:00:05,279 --> 00:00:08,960 Becker's fourth annual spring payer issues roundtable brings 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,500 together over 400 4 00:00:10,639 --> 00:00:13,044 payer and health plan executives and more than 5 00:00:13,044 --> 00:00:16,504 100 speakers to Chicago April. 6 00:00:16,885 --> 00:00:19,765 This year's event includes keynote conversations with the 7 00:00:19,765 --> 00:00:23,044 industry's top leaders and former president George w 8 00:00:23,044 --> 00:00:25,605 Bush. For the full agenda and event details, 9 00:00:25,605 --> 00:00:27,809 visit beckershospitalreview.com 10 00:00:27,890 --> 00:00:29,250 and click on the events tab in the 11 00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:31,489 upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you 12 00:00:31,489 --> 00:00:32,549 here in Chicago. 13 00:00:34,049 --> 00:00:36,449 Hello, everyone. This is Elizabeth Caslow with the 14 00:00:36,449 --> 00:00:39,649 Becker's Payer Issues podcast. I'm thrilled today to 15 00:00:39,649 --> 00:00:41,429 be joined by Alex Ding, 16 00:00:41,745 --> 00:00:45,265 enterprise deputy chief medical officer at Humana. Doctor 17 00:00:45,265 --> 00:00:46,784 Ding, thank you so much for joining us 18 00:00:46,784 --> 00:00:48,784 today. Thank you so much for having me. 19 00:00:48,784 --> 00:00:50,484 I'm really excited to join you today. 20 00:00:50,865 --> 00:00:53,344 Great. So before we dive into Humana's value 21 00:00:53,344 --> 00:00:54,960 based care report, which is gonna be our 22 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:55,859 central focus, 23 00:00:56,399 --> 00:00:57,520 I would love to hear a bit more 24 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,700 about yourself and your career background. 25 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,119 Sure. Would be delighted to. So as you 26 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:04,879 mentioned, I'm Alex Ding. I'm the deputy chief 27 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,784 medical officer at Humana, and I've been with 28 00:01:07,784 --> 00:01:10,444 Humana for the past five plus years 29 00:01:10,905 --> 00:01:12,284 based out of Louisville, Kentucky. 30 00:01:12,744 --> 00:01:14,204 I'm a practicing physician. 31 00:01:14,744 --> 00:01:17,724 I am a diagnostic and interventional radiologist 32 00:01:18,504 --> 00:01:21,405 by training still practice, in Louisville, Kentucky. 33 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:23,420 Prior 34 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:24,939 to joining Humana, 35 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,040 my background has been primarily in clinical practice 36 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,379 and so I've practiced in academic settings 37 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,079 in addition to private practice. And I've also 38 00:01:33,079 --> 00:01:35,474 worked in healthcare innovation as well, 39 00:01:35,954 --> 00:01:39,155 working on, how we bring technology enablement into 40 00:01:39,155 --> 00:01:41,814 health care, particularly through the use of innovations 41 00:01:41,875 --> 00:01:43,575 like, augmented intelligence. 42 00:01:44,674 --> 00:01:46,435 Great to hear. So thank you again for 43 00:01:46,435 --> 00:01:47,254 joining us. 44 00:01:47,634 --> 00:01:49,575 So, yeah, we're gonna talk about that report. 45 00:01:49,769 --> 00:01:51,609 So thinking about the report's context, so I 46 00:01:51,609 --> 00:01:53,629 would love to hear how exactly Humana 47 00:01:54,009 --> 00:01:56,329 defines value based care because sometimes that term 48 00:01:56,329 --> 00:01:57,709 gets thrown up in the air, 49 00:01:58,090 --> 00:01:59,530 and we're not always on the same page. 50 00:01:59,530 --> 00:02:00,729 So I would love to hear in the 51 00:02:00,729 --> 00:02:03,049 context of the report, how does Humana define 52 00:02:03,049 --> 00:02:04,189 value based care? 53 00:02:04,775 --> 00:02:06,454 Yeah. I I I think you're right. There 54 00:02:06,454 --> 00:02:07,354 are different 55 00:02:07,734 --> 00:02:10,615 interpretations, different takes, different definitions for how one 56 00:02:10,615 --> 00:02:12,235 might think about value based care. 57 00:02:12,775 --> 00:02:15,735 At its core, Humana defines value based care 58 00:02:15,735 --> 00:02:18,794 as realigning health care around outcomes, 59 00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:22,520 quality and experience, not just volume. And so 60 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:23,500 in our report, 61 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,460 we simplify that idea and 62 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,379 define it as value equals quality and experience 63 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,560 all over or divided by cost. And I 64 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:34,860 think that framing matters 65 00:02:35,414 --> 00:02:38,455 because it shifts the conversation away from how 66 00:02:38,455 --> 00:02:39,354 much care 67 00:02:39,655 --> 00:02:41,275 we deliver and really 68 00:02:41,735 --> 00:02:44,294 moving toward the conversation of how well are 69 00:02:44,294 --> 00:02:47,014 people actually doing, how healthy are we able 70 00:02:47,014 --> 00:02:47,669 to keep, 71 00:02:48,069 --> 00:02:49,990 patients? And I think it moves away from 72 00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:53,189 this idea of how much activity we're generating 73 00:02:53,189 --> 00:02:55,349 in the health care system and really moves 74 00:02:55,349 --> 00:02:57,830 toward what sort of outcomes we're achieving in 75 00:02:57,830 --> 00:02:58,969 our health care system. 76 00:02:59,349 --> 00:03:00,935 I would say, practically, 77 00:03:01,875 --> 00:03:03,495 value based care enables 78 00:03:03,955 --> 00:03:04,455 proactive 79 00:03:04,995 --> 00:03:06,295 whole person care, 80 00:03:06,995 --> 00:03:09,895 using data through care teams and longitudinal 81 00:03:10,275 --> 00:03:11,814 relationships that prevent 82 00:03:12,115 --> 00:03:12,615 problems, 83 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:13,939 keep people healthy 84 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,719 rather than just reacting to them when it's 85 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:18,319 further down the line. And I think for 86 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:18,819 clinicians, 87 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:20,580 that also means 88 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:21,460 less 89 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,159 feeling like you are on a treadmill or 90 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:26,240 on that hamster wheel of seeing as many 91 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,885 patients as possible and really getting more time 92 00:03:28,944 --> 00:03:31,365 to focus on meaningful patient care. 93 00:03:31,665 --> 00:03:33,504 And I think for the system at large, 94 00:03:33,504 --> 00:03:35,504 it's really about how we get to something 95 00:03:35,504 --> 00:03:38,485 that is both clinically better but also financially 96 00:03:38,545 --> 00:03:40,004 sustainable at the same time. 97 00:03:40,669 --> 00:03:42,830 Thanks for grounding us in that context. So 98 00:03:42,830 --> 00:03:44,209 I wanna give you the opportunity 99 00:03:44,509 --> 00:03:46,590 to talk about what you think is the 100 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:48,430 most valuable what you think are the most 101 00:03:48,430 --> 00:03:49,330 valuable findings, 102 00:03:49,709 --> 00:03:52,209 from this report, and where did they confirm 103 00:03:52,430 --> 00:03:54,590 or even challenge what Humana is seeing in 104 00:03:54,590 --> 00:03:55,090 practice? 105 00:03:56,224 --> 00:03:58,145 Yeah. I I think there's a number of 106 00:03:58,145 --> 00:04:00,544 items that are interesting in the report in 107 00:04:00,544 --> 00:04:03,264 terms of the things that we are, as 108 00:04:03,264 --> 00:04:05,585 as I mentioned, defining value based care as, 109 00:04:05,585 --> 00:04:06,245 which includes, 110 00:04:07,025 --> 00:04:10,280 improvements we see in quality but also improvements 111 00:04:10,419 --> 00:04:13,240 in experience. Then that is both true for, 112 00:04:14,259 --> 00:04:16,580 patients and members, but also for the clinicians 113 00:04:16,580 --> 00:04:18,839 that are practicing within the system as well. 114 00:04:19,060 --> 00:04:20,819 All at the same time, the sorts of 115 00:04:20,819 --> 00:04:23,785 reductions you can see in cost and utilization. 116 00:04:24,964 --> 00:04:26,404 And we've got some of the numbers that 117 00:04:26,404 --> 00:04:27,944 are in the report that I'd encourage, 118 00:04:28,324 --> 00:04:30,404 people to to jump into. But I would 119 00:04:30,404 --> 00:04:31,865 say what stood out most 120 00:04:32,725 --> 00:04:35,305 was really how clearly the data validated 121 00:04:35,605 --> 00:04:38,899 what clinicians, I think, intuitively already know, that 122 00:04:38,899 --> 00:04:41,160 continuity of primary care matters 123 00:04:41,539 --> 00:04:42,360 matters a lot. 124 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:46,019 And in these value based care arrangements, we 125 00:04:46,019 --> 00:04:46,919 saw meaningfully 126 00:04:47,459 --> 00:04:47,959 fewer, 127 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:51,375 unnecessary hospital admissions and emergency department visits 128 00:04:51,855 --> 00:04:54,735 that is paired with more scheduled primary care 129 00:04:54,735 --> 00:04:57,954 visits, more continuity of care, more intensity 130 00:04:58,334 --> 00:05:00,175 of engagement with primary care, and I think 131 00:05:00,175 --> 00:05:02,514 that combination is incredibly powerful. 132 00:05:02,975 --> 00:05:05,795 I think it's what allows for earlier 133 00:05:06,175 --> 00:05:06,995 care intervention, 134 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,759 allows for better management of chronic disease, and 135 00:05:10,759 --> 00:05:13,480 as a result leads to fewer downstream health 136 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,379 crises. Not to mention, I think the importance 137 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:17,500 of spending 138 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,180 more time with 139 00:05:19,754 --> 00:05:22,155 your usual source of care, with your doctor, 140 00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:23,295 with your care team, 141 00:05:23,675 --> 00:05:26,254 and that as a result developing stronger therapeutic 142 00:05:26,395 --> 00:05:29,514 relationships between the patient, their physician, and the 143 00:05:29,514 --> 00:05:32,095 whole of the clinical care team. I think 144 00:05:32,649 --> 00:05:35,050 one of the things that, also stood out 145 00:05:35,050 --> 00:05:36,410 in terms of kind of the the other 146 00:05:36,410 --> 00:05:38,729 side, the the challenge of it is that 147 00:05:38,729 --> 00:05:41,229 there's still a decent amount of uneven performance 148 00:05:41,289 --> 00:05:42,750 in terms of where we see, 149 00:05:43,449 --> 00:05:46,204 value based care firing on all all cylinders 150 00:05:46,204 --> 00:05:48,204 and where there's still some opportunities. And I 151 00:05:48,204 --> 00:05:50,305 think that the model works, 152 00:05:50,605 --> 00:05:52,524 but it only works when you've got the 153 00:05:52,524 --> 00:05:55,245 infrastructure and you've got the data liquidity. You've 154 00:05:55,245 --> 00:05:57,324 got the care teams that are consistently in 155 00:05:57,324 --> 00:05:59,020 place. And I think that being able to 156 00:05:59,020 --> 00:06:00,699 bridge that gap is one of those areas 157 00:06:00,699 --> 00:06:02,560 that we will continue to focus on. 158 00:06:03,339 --> 00:06:05,259 So just to bring our listeners up to 159 00:06:05,259 --> 00:06:06,779 speed, and I'm reading this straight from the 160 00:06:06,779 --> 00:06:09,580 report, Medicare Advantage members and value based care 161 00:06:09,580 --> 00:06:12,139 arrangements had 24.3% 162 00:06:12,139 --> 00:06:15,055 fewer inpatient hospital admissions than those in original 163 00:06:15,055 --> 00:06:16,595 Medicare in 2024. 164 00:06:16,894 --> 00:06:19,854 And, Humana Medicare Advantage members receiving value based 165 00:06:19,854 --> 00:06:21,875 care had 13.4% 166 00:06:22,095 --> 00:06:25,774 fewer emergency department visits and 7.6% 167 00:06:25,774 --> 00:06:27,854 fewer hospital admissions. So that's those are some 168 00:06:27,854 --> 00:06:28,754 of those numbers, 169 00:06:29,180 --> 00:06:31,039 that doctor Ding was touching on there. 170 00:06:31,579 --> 00:06:33,659 But, yeah, let's talk about those challenges. So 171 00:06:33,659 --> 00:06:36,159 what are those harder those more more difficult 172 00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:38,719 operational barriers that Humana still sees 173 00:06:39,019 --> 00:06:42,060 when translating that belief of value based care 174 00:06:42,060 --> 00:06:44,399 into consistent performance across markets? 175 00:06:45,444 --> 00:06:48,324 Yeah. I would say the biggest barrier is 176 00:06:48,324 --> 00:06:50,104 that we are still predominantly 177 00:06:50,485 --> 00:06:52,805 operating inside a health care system that is 178 00:06:52,805 --> 00:06:54,904 built for fee for service. 179 00:06:55,604 --> 00:06:59,305 And so clinicians are being asked to deliver 180 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:02,720 proactive coordinated care while still working in these 181 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:03,220 workflows 182 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,800 that were designed to be reactive, that were 183 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:07,939 designed to be episodic. 184 00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:10,240 And I would say one of the biggest 185 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,379 challenges is 186 00:07:11,774 --> 00:07:14,735 practices trying to operate really with one foot 187 00:07:14,735 --> 00:07:15,795 in fee for service, 188 00:07:16,254 --> 00:07:18,175 one foot in value based care. I often 189 00:07:18,175 --> 00:07:20,274 call this having one foot in each canoe. 190 00:07:20,495 --> 00:07:22,115 And I think that is an incredibly 191 00:07:22,495 --> 00:07:24,995 hard place to be because you're 192 00:07:25,540 --> 00:07:27,240 essentially trying to deliver proactive 193 00:07:27,939 --> 00:07:30,660 population based care on a fee for service 194 00:07:30,660 --> 00:07:32,600 chassis that was not never designed, 195 00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:35,060 to to do well in that. And I 196 00:07:35,060 --> 00:07:36,439 think that internal tension 197 00:07:36,980 --> 00:07:39,080 really shows up in workflows, 198 00:07:39,644 --> 00:07:41,904 in staffing models, and clinical priorities, 199 00:07:42,444 --> 00:07:45,185 and it can unfortunately blunt the impact of 200 00:07:45,404 --> 00:07:47,805 what value based care can accomplish even when 201 00:07:47,805 --> 00:07:48,464 the intent 202 00:07:48,925 --> 00:07:51,004 is there. And I would say, you know, 203 00:07:51,004 --> 00:07:52,464 layer on top of that 204 00:07:52,849 --> 00:07:55,750 the broader health care system issues. So fragmented 205 00:07:55,810 --> 00:07:57,750 data, inconsistent infrastructure, 206 00:07:58,610 --> 00:07:59,110 variability 207 00:07:59,490 --> 00:08:00,389 across markets. 208 00:08:01,009 --> 00:08:01,509 And 209 00:08:01,970 --> 00:08:02,470 so 210 00:08:03,169 --> 00:08:05,009 while I think the belief in value based 211 00:08:05,009 --> 00:08:06,069 care is strong, 212 00:08:06,544 --> 00:08:08,944 I would say the work now is really 213 00:08:08,944 --> 00:08:11,745 in taking it to that operational level and 214 00:08:11,745 --> 00:08:14,404 helping practices fully cross that bridge 215 00:08:14,865 --> 00:08:18,165 by reducing administrative burden and friction by improving 216 00:08:18,464 --> 00:08:19,604 data flow and liquidity 217 00:08:20,064 --> 00:08:23,120 and really aligning incentives so that they don't 218 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,680 feel like they're paddling in two directions at 219 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:26,500 the same time. 220 00:08:27,279 --> 00:08:30,020 So how do you distinguish between nominal participation 221 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,799 and value based care and, like, an actual 222 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:34,019 commitment to transformation? 223 00:08:35,245 --> 00:08:37,264 Yeah. I think I think the distinction 224 00:08:37,644 --> 00:08:38,144 is 225 00:08:39,165 --> 00:08:40,304 really less about 226 00:08:41,085 --> 00:08:43,404 kind of the what the contract looks like 227 00:08:43,404 --> 00:08:46,445 and really looking much further downstream into what 228 00:08:46,445 --> 00:08:47,985 the care delivery model, 229 00:08:48,605 --> 00:08:50,304 looks like. And I would say nominal 230 00:08:50,899 --> 00:08:53,480 participation means that a practice may 231 00:08:53,860 --> 00:08:55,700 have a value based care arrangement. They have 232 00:08:55,940 --> 00:08:58,200 they may have a value based care contract, 233 00:08:58,980 --> 00:09:00,759 but the care itself 234 00:09:01,220 --> 00:09:03,379 at the clinical level still looks and feels 235 00:09:03,379 --> 00:09:05,975 like be for service. So there's limited coordination, 236 00:09:06,195 --> 00:09:09,315 there's reactive visits, there's minimal, if any, use 237 00:09:09,315 --> 00:09:12,214 of data. And I think that true transformation 238 00:09:12,834 --> 00:09:13,975 really shows up 239 00:09:14,355 --> 00:09:16,355 when you look at how the care is 240 00:09:16,355 --> 00:09:18,629 being organized day to day, how it's being 241 00:09:18,629 --> 00:09:20,409 delivered, how it's being experienced 242 00:09:20,710 --> 00:09:23,110 by not only the patient but also by 243 00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:25,509 the clinician who's working in that system as 244 00:09:25,509 --> 00:09:27,610 well. And so in those systems, you see 245 00:09:27,909 --> 00:09:28,970 team based models, 246 00:09:29,269 --> 00:09:31,049 you see continuous patient engagement, 247 00:09:31,365 --> 00:09:33,384 You see data being used prospectively, 248 00:09:33,924 --> 00:09:36,404 not just for reporting, but also for clinical 249 00:09:36,404 --> 00:09:38,725 decision making as well. And I think it's 250 00:09:38,725 --> 00:09:41,605 really a a huge leap in mind shift 251 00:09:41,845 --> 00:09:43,225 mindset shift from 252 00:09:43,605 --> 00:09:46,309 really thinking about or asking the question of 253 00:09:46,610 --> 00:09:48,389 how many patients that I see today 254 00:09:48,769 --> 00:09:51,570 to how well are my patients doing today 255 00:09:51,570 --> 00:09:53,330 and how well are they doing over time. 256 00:09:53,330 --> 00:09:55,250 And I think that's when you start to 257 00:09:55,250 --> 00:09:56,870 see the financial 258 00:09:58,345 --> 00:10:01,785 transformation leading to clinical transformation, which is really 259 00:10:01,785 --> 00:10:03,485 what we consider true transformation 260 00:10:03,945 --> 00:10:04,764 in the system. 261 00:10:05,945 --> 00:10:08,764 Yeah. And from your perspective as a physician 262 00:10:08,825 --> 00:10:09,325 leader, 263 00:10:09,785 --> 00:10:13,309 what does a mature value based care arrangement 264 00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:14,330 really look like, 265 00:10:14,730 --> 00:10:17,050 and how does alignment look between payers and 266 00:10:17,050 --> 00:10:18,269 providers in those situations? 267 00:10:19,690 --> 00:10:21,129 I would say in a in a mature 268 00:10:21,129 --> 00:10:23,070 value based model, alignment 269 00:10:23,529 --> 00:10:25,230 looks like a a true partnership 270 00:10:25,575 --> 00:10:27,835 between the payer and the provider, 271 00:10:28,695 --> 00:10:30,715 rather than a more transactional 272 00:10:31,254 --> 00:10:33,095 sort of relationship or I would say even 273 00:10:33,095 --> 00:10:34,955 worse yet an adversarial one. 274 00:10:35,495 --> 00:10:37,274 And I think that effective alignment 275 00:10:37,654 --> 00:10:40,455 looks like a genuine partnership that is built 276 00:10:40,455 --> 00:10:41,740 on transparent, 277 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,139 timely, actionable data 278 00:10:44,519 --> 00:10:47,079 that clinicians can use at the point of 279 00:10:47,079 --> 00:10:49,259 care to make informed clinical decisions, 280 00:10:49,959 --> 00:10:51,820 in real time. And I think 281 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:53,019 incentives 282 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,605 are structured 283 00:10:55,144 --> 00:10:57,004 in these models to reward 284 00:10:57,464 --> 00:10:57,964 participation, 285 00:10:59,065 --> 00:11:02,504 care coordination, patient well-being rather than just volume 286 00:11:02,504 --> 00:11:04,264 and the number of patients that you're seeing 287 00:11:04,264 --> 00:11:05,004 in a day. 288 00:11:05,544 --> 00:11:06,365 I think clinicians 289 00:11:06,970 --> 00:11:10,250 also have support from integrated care teams so 290 00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:12,409 that they don't feel like they're responsible for 291 00:11:12,409 --> 00:11:13,230 every single, 292 00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:16,490 aspect of patient care that they're shouldering on 293 00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:17,549 their burdens, which, 294 00:11:18,009 --> 00:11:20,715 we know that clinicians are incredibly burdened and, 295 00:11:20,955 --> 00:11:23,274 many are burnt out. And I think that 296 00:11:23,274 --> 00:11:24,014 this alignment 297 00:11:24,715 --> 00:11:27,035 reduces that administrative burden, and we have seen 298 00:11:27,035 --> 00:11:29,115 that it allows for more time with their 299 00:11:29,115 --> 00:11:29,615 patients, 300 00:11:30,075 --> 00:11:33,195 which enables that sort of relationship based care 301 00:11:33,195 --> 00:11:36,019 that not only builds care between that doctor 302 00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:36,899 patient relationship, 303 00:11:37,839 --> 00:11:40,079 but broader trust with the health care system 304 00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:41,879 writ large. And I think that that as 305 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:44,639 a result proactively keeps people healthy and improves 306 00:11:44,639 --> 00:11:45,139 outcomes, 307 00:11:45,695 --> 00:11:47,855 and it's something that improves not only the 308 00:11:47,855 --> 00:11:50,414 patient experience but the clinician experience as well. 309 00:11:50,414 --> 00:11:53,054 And so I think when that alignment is 310 00:11:53,054 --> 00:11:53,714 in place, 311 00:11:54,654 --> 00:11:57,455 that trust overall improves, and I would say 312 00:11:57,455 --> 00:11:59,934 trust is what allows value based care to 313 00:11:59,934 --> 00:12:01,590 continue to scale over time. 314 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:05,290 And based on the report's findings, what changes 315 00:12:05,830 --> 00:12:07,670 is Humana thinking about when it comes to 316 00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:09,990 its value based care strategy over the next 317 00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:10,809 year or two? 318 00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:13,750 I would say, overall, the large the findings 319 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:16,629 largely confirm our overall direction. I do think 320 00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:19,514 that they help, sharpen our priorities. However, I 321 00:12:19,514 --> 00:12:21,214 would say over the next twelve 322 00:12:21,595 --> 00:12:24,794 to twenty four months, we're focused on continuing 323 00:12:24,794 --> 00:12:25,454 to deepen 324 00:12:25,914 --> 00:12:28,394 that primary care continuity and intensity that I 325 00:12:28,394 --> 00:12:30,714 mentioned earlier on. That's also part of the 326 00:12:30,714 --> 00:12:32,870 report because I do think that is where 327 00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:36,169 the biggest clinical and experience gains occur. 328 00:12:36,950 --> 00:12:38,809 At the same time, I would say that 329 00:12:39,029 --> 00:12:40,309 I'd like to take a lot of our 330 00:12:40,309 --> 00:12:43,909 learnings from scaling and maturing value based care 331 00:12:43,909 --> 00:12:45,690 models in primary care 332 00:12:46,070 --> 00:12:46,570 into 333 00:12:47,054 --> 00:12:49,375 specialty care as well. I think over the 334 00:12:49,375 --> 00:12:51,215 next twelve to twenty four months, we're also 335 00:12:51,215 --> 00:12:54,914 continuing to invest more in better or effective 336 00:12:54,975 --> 00:12:55,475 interoperability 337 00:12:56,335 --> 00:12:58,815 that allows for more real time data exchange 338 00:12:58,815 --> 00:13:00,595 and analytics so that clinicians 339 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,040 can act earlier, not later, 340 00:13:03,420 --> 00:13:07,420 and reducing administrative burdens and strengthening that team 341 00:13:07,420 --> 00:13:09,200 based care model that 342 00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:12,060 continues to be a critical enabler of what 343 00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:13,279 it means to function 344 00:13:14,044 --> 00:13:16,784 effectively in a value based care operating model. 345 00:13:16,924 --> 00:13:18,304 And then I would say, finally, 346 00:13:18,764 --> 00:13:20,625 we're continuing to push adoption 347 00:13:21,164 --> 00:13:21,664 in 348 00:13:22,845 --> 00:13:25,884 those areas where we see gaps in value 349 00:13:25,884 --> 00:13:27,264 based care adoption that 350 00:13:28,509 --> 00:13:31,009 high quality value based care isn't just limited 351 00:13:31,070 --> 00:13:33,709 or dependent on geography as an example. And 352 00:13:33,709 --> 00:13:36,450 so broadening the practice of value based care 353 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:38,209 and deepening penetration 354 00:13:38,509 --> 00:13:40,049 across the health care ecosystem, 355 00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:43,230 continues to remain a long term strategy for 356 00:13:43,230 --> 00:13:43,730 us. 357 00:13:44,455 --> 00:13:46,375 Well, thank you for adding some color on 358 00:13:46,375 --> 00:13:48,134 this report. It's been great to chat with 359 00:13:48,134 --> 00:13:50,375 you, doctor Ding. But before we wrap up, 360 00:13:50,375 --> 00:13:52,294 I wanna ask, is there anything else that 361 00:13:52,294 --> 00:13:52,875 you think, 362 00:13:53,335 --> 00:13:55,575 insurers should think be thinking about when they, 363 00:13:55,815 --> 00:13:57,835 are honing their value based care approach? 364 00:13:58,779 --> 00:14:00,299 Yeah. What I'd like to say in in 365 00:14:00,299 --> 00:14:01,759 closing is just that 366 00:14:02,299 --> 00:14:03,600 value based care 367 00:14:03,980 --> 00:14:07,919 can't continue to be this theoretical discussion of 368 00:14:08,299 --> 00:14:10,700 what a future state may or need to 369 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,294 look like in the health care system because 370 00:14:13,294 --> 00:14:14,914 I think the data is clear, 371 00:14:15,535 --> 00:14:17,134 and it I think it's also something that 372 00:14:17,134 --> 00:14:19,715 clinicians and patients can feel and experience 373 00:14:20,254 --> 00:14:23,455 as something fundamentally different. And that's part of 374 00:14:23,455 --> 00:14:26,470 the reason we continue to publish evidence to 375 00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:28,389 that effect year after year. This is our 376 00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:28,889 twelfth 377 00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:31,669 annual report and continuously year after year, we 378 00:14:31,669 --> 00:14:33,429 continue to share some of this data because 379 00:14:33,429 --> 00:14:34,730 we think it is so important. 380 00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:36,789 But at the same time, I recognize that 381 00:14:36,789 --> 00:14:39,049 the real work is really about helping practices 382 00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:42,054 to fully move into these models, these models 383 00:14:42,054 --> 00:14:45,674 that reward prevention, continuity of care, and outcomes, 384 00:14:46,455 --> 00:14:46,955 without 385 00:14:47,335 --> 00:14:49,975 asking them to really fight against this fee 386 00:14:49,975 --> 00:14:51,815 for service system at the same time. And 387 00:14:51,815 --> 00:14:53,519 so I think that if we are able 388 00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:55,519 to truly get this right, if we continue 389 00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:58,659 to push, it's not just about improving metrics, 390 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,639 but I think it continues to help us 391 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:03,700 build a health care system that is fundamentally 392 00:15:03,919 --> 00:15:04,740 more sustainable, 393 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,125 and it's better for the people, the patients, 394 00:15:08,125 --> 00:15:09,485 the members that we serve all at the 395 00:15:09,485 --> 00:15:10,865 same time. And 396 00:15:11,245 --> 00:15:13,404 so I would encourage all of your listeners 397 00:15:13,404 --> 00:15:15,085 today to check out the report. It is 398 00:15:15,085 --> 00:15:17,664 available at humana.com/vbc. 399 00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:19,644 It gives you a little bit more detail 400 00:15:19,644 --> 00:15:21,904 into the discussion we had today and would 401 00:15:21,964 --> 00:15:24,080 really think that you'd all find it enlightening. 402 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,539 So please check it out. Thank you. 403 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,159 Well, thanks again, doctor Dang. It was great, 404 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:30,399 having you on to chat. Thank you again 405 00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:32,960 so much for having us. Great. Well, to 406 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,039 our listeners, just a quick note. If you'd 407 00:15:35,039 --> 00:15:37,120 like to listen to more podcasts from Beckers 408 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,260 Health Care, you can visit beckershospitalreview.com. 409 00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:41,080 Thank you.