1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,059 This is where health insurance leadership comes together. 2 00:00:05,279 --> 00:00:09,039 Becker's fourth annual spring payer issues roundtable brings 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,259 together over 400 payer and health plan executives 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,574 and more than 100 speakers to Chicago April. 5 00:00:16,875 --> 00:00:19,755 This year's event includes keynote conversations with the 6 00:00:19,755 --> 00:00:23,035 industry's top leaders and former president George W. 7 00:00:23,035 --> 00:00:25,675 Bush. For the full agenda and event details, 8 00:00:25,675 --> 00:00:27,870 visit beckershospitalreview.com 9 00:00:27,949 --> 00:00:29,310 and click on the events tab in the 10 00:00:29,310 --> 00:00:31,470 upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you 11 00:00:31,470 --> 00:00:32,609 here in Chicago. 12 00:00:33,950 --> 00:00:36,270 Hello, everyone. This is Jacob Emerson with the 13 00:00:36,270 --> 00:00:37,969 Becker's Healthcare Podcast. 14 00:00:38,350 --> 00:00:40,929 Thrilled today to be joined by Talak Mandati, 15 00:00:40,990 --> 00:00:43,145 who is the executive vice president of ventures 16 00:00:43,145 --> 00:00:46,024 and the chief experience and technology officer at 17 00:00:46,024 --> 00:00:48,664 CVS Health. Talak, thank you so much for 18 00:00:48,664 --> 00:00:49,945 taking the time to be with me on 19 00:00:49,945 --> 00:00:52,825 the podcast today. Thanks for having me, Jacob. 20 00:00:52,825 --> 00:00:53,645 How are you? 21 00:00:54,050 --> 00:00:55,890 I'm doing great, Tlaloc. I'm better now that 22 00:00:55,890 --> 00:00:57,170 I get to sit down with you and 23 00:00:57,170 --> 00:00:58,770 chat a little bit about everything going on 24 00:00:58,770 --> 00:00:59,909 at CVS Health. 25 00:01:00,370 --> 00:01:01,969 But before we dive into all that, can 26 00:01:01,969 --> 00:01:03,890 you first tell our audience a little bit 27 00:01:03,890 --> 00:01:07,064 about yourself, your career background, and then, give 28 00:01:07,064 --> 00:01:09,145 everybody an overview of your current role and 29 00:01:09,145 --> 00:01:10,605 what you do at CVS. 30 00:01:12,185 --> 00:01:13,245 I look after, 31 00:01:14,025 --> 00:01:15,325 CVS Health Ventures, 32 00:01:16,265 --> 00:01:17,405 which is our 33 00:01:17,865 --> 00:01:19,965 corporate ventures group. We have 34 00:01:20,739 --> 00:01:22,119 40 plus companies, 35 00:01:22,979 --> 00:01:24,759 2,000,000,000 assets under management. 36 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:27,719 I also am the chief experience 37 00:01:28,019 --> 00:01:29,479 and technology officer 38 00:01:30,500 --> 00:01:31,319 for the company. 39 00:01:31,780 --> 00:01:34,679 So I my teams look after 40 00:01:36,204 --> 00:01:38,465 all things technology. So that's 41 00:01:38,844 --> 00:01:40,224 core IT functions, 42 00:01:42,204 --> 00:01:43,745 core technology platforms, 43 00:01:44,525 --> 00:01:45,025 digital, 44 00:01:46,525 --> 00:01:47,025 AI, 45 00:01:47,405 --> 00:01:48,545 data analytics, 46 00:01:49,969 --> 00:01:52,129 anything that's connected to all of that is 47 00:01:52,129 --> 00:01:53,590 looked after by my team. 48 00:01:54,129 --> 00:01:55,729 And I look after the, 49 00:01:56,369 --> 00:01:57,909 creating and measuring 50 00:01:59,009 --> 00:01:59,509 customer 51 00:01:59,969 --> 00:02:00,469 experiences, 52 00:02:00,849 --> 00:02:02,709 both physical and digital, 53 00:02:03,329 --> 00:02:05,864 across the company as well. I was in 54 00:02:05,864 --> 00:02:08,604 other industries before. I was with, Disney, 55 00:02:09,625 --> 00:02:10,905 prior to coming to, 56 00:02:11,305 --> 00:02:12,205 CVS Health. 57 00:02:12,584 --> 00:02:14,905 And before that, I was at American Express. 58 00:02:14,905 --> 00:02:17,224 So I have seen other industries before coming 59 00:02:17,224 --> 00:02:18,205 to health care. 60 00:02:19,050 --> 00:02:20,729 Absolutely. And let's talk a little bit about 61 00:02:20,729 --> 00:02:22,889 that because it's always so interesting when we 62 00:02:22,889 --> 00:02:26,250 have senior health care executives coming from other 63 00:02:26,250 --> 00:02:26,750 industries. 64 00:02:27,530 --> 00:02:29,789 Like you mentioned, you you led digital transformation 65 00:02:30,009 --> 00:02:33,314 at Disney and then at American Express before 66 00:02:33,455 --> 00:02:34,354 CVS Health. 67 00:02:34,735 --> 00:02:37,534 So I wonder, is there a lesson from 68 00:02:37,534 --> 00:02:40,574 hospitality or from the entertainment industry that you 69 00:02:40,574 --> 00:02:42,675 would share with all the health care executives 70 00:02:42,735 --> 00:02:45,370 listening in, that they might miss or, 71 00:02:45,849 --> 00:02:47,769 not be as as aware about when it 72 00:02:47,769 --> 00:02:49,549 comes to customer experience? 73 00:02:50,810 --> 00:02:51,469 I think, 74 00:02:51,889 --> 00:02:54,889 the coming from Disney to serious health and 75 00:02:54,889 --> 00:02:55,389 learning 76 00:02:55,689 --> 00:02:56,669 health care experience, 77 00:02:57,449 --> 00:02:58,830 I was humbled by 78 00:02:59,425 --> 00:03:00,164 the complexity 79 00:03:00,865 --> 00:03:02,724 of the health care industry, Jacob, 80 00:03:03,504 --> 00:03:05,525 and I was also humbled by 81 00:03:06,145 --> 00:03:06,884 the dedication 82 00:03:07,745 --> 00:03:09,745 of the people that work in health care 83 00:03:09,745 --> 00:03:11,604 industry to do the right things. 84 00:03:12,819 --> 00:03:13,319 And 85 00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:16,439 what surprised me, though, is 86 00:03:17,540 --> 00:03:20,280 in all this complexity of healthcare industry, 87 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:21,800 how 88 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:23,719 the patient 89 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:25,560 and the provider 90 00:03:26,099 --> 00:03:26,599 experience 91 00:03:28,724 --> 00:03:29,784 became an afterthought, 92 00:03:31,525 --> 00:03:33,625 especially the customer experience. 93 00:03:34,724 --> 00:03:35,224 And 94 00:03:36,004 --> 00:03:36,905 even worse, 95 00:03:37,205 --> 00:03:38,025 the customer 96 00:03:38,485 --> 00:03:38,985 engagement 97 00:03:39,764 --> 00:03:41,064 in their own health 98 00:03:42,659 --> 00:03:44,039 is very, very low. 99 00:03:44,900 --> 00:03:45,959 And it's clear 100 00:03:46,259 --> 00:03:46,759 that, 101 00:03:48,019 --> 00:03:50,659 the bad experience or the complexity of the 102 00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:52,039 experience is the 103 00:03:52,659 --> 00:03:53,560 is the issue 104 00:03:54,115 --> 00:03:57,395 in getting to better consumer engagement. And without 105 00:03:57,395 --> 00:03:59,094 getting to better consumer engagement, 106 00:03:59,794 --> 00:04:01,474 you are not gonna get to better health 107 00:04:01,474 --> 00:04:02,215 care outcomes. 108 00:04:02,514 --> 00:04:03,895 And all of that requires 109 00:04:04,435 --> 00:04:04,871 the health care industry complexity to go down. 110 00:04:04,871 --> 00:04:05,665 So, that that's a that that's 111 00:04:10,290 --> 00:04:13,430 revelation to me on we gotta improve experience 112 00:04:13,650 --> 00:04:14,150 materially 113 00:04:14,530 --> 00:04:16,310 and get to much better engagement 114 00:04:16,689 --> 00:04:18,629 for the consumer in their own health. 115 00:04:19,785 --> 00:04:21,865 Absolutely. And I know those things have been 116 00:04:21,865 --> 00:04:24,585 a major focus for CVS over these last 117 00:04:24,585 --> 00:04:27,064 few years. That's certainly something that we've been 118 00:04:27,064 --> 00:04:28,845 covering a lot of here at Becker's. 119 00:04:29,705 --> 00:04:31,990 And and, obviously, as you know, Deluxe, the 120 00:04:31,990 --> 00:04:34,629 the company operates at massive scale. You have 121 00:04:34,629 --> 00:04:36,329 over 9,000 pharmacies, 122 00:04:37,029 --> 00:04:39,430 but you also oversee a venture arm that 123 00:04:39,430 --> 00:04:42,169 invests in start ups all over the country. 124 00:04:42,389 --> 00:04:43,129 So I wonder 125 00:04:43,509 --> 00:04:45,209 how how do you think about balancing, 126 00:04:46,229 --> 00:04:48,375 building as a company versus 127 00:04:48,834 --> 00:04:49,654 buying innovation, 128 00:04:50,115 --> 00:04:52,035 especially when you're trying to move fast in 129 00:04:52,035 --> 00:04:54,454 in what is such a highly regulated industry? 130 00:04:55,475 --> 00:04:56,854 On the venture side, 131 00:04:57,235 --> 00:04:58,774 we are not a passive 132 00:04:59,154 --> 00:05:00,214 investor, Jacob. 133 00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:03,899 We take a very active role as an 134 00:05:03,899 --> 00:05:04,399 investor. 135 00:05:05,019 --> 00:05:06,639 What I mean by that is 136 00:05:07,660 --> 00:05:08,160 we 137 00:05:08,699 --> 00:05:10,000 we invest in companies, 138 00:05:11,579 --> 00:05:12,560 by and large, 139 00:05:12,875 --> 00:05:14,975 the companies that we want to use 140 00:05:15,355 --> 00:05:17,134 within the CVS health ecosystem. 141 00:05:18,555 --> 00:05:19,055 So, 142 00:05:19,595 --> 00:05:20,095 70 143 00:05:20,634 --> 00:05:22,795 so I think 75% 144 00:05:22,795 --> 00:05:25,375 of all CVS ventures companies 145 00:05:26,074 --> 00:05:27,375 have commercial agreements 146 00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:30,439 with, with serious health entities. 147 00:05:31,620 --> 00:05:34,439 And we also participate very actively, 148 00:05:36,020 --> 00:05:38,100 into the companies that we invested in in 149 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:40,439 terms of roadmap development, prioritization, 150 00:05:42,045 --> 00:05:43,745 and exploring jointly, 151 00:05:44,925 --> 00:05:47,024 what what the art of the possible. 152 00:05:47,324 --> 00:05:47,824 So 153 00:05:48,444 --> 00:05:50,944 when you ask me, what how do we 154 00:05:51,245 --> 00:05:51,745 decide 155 00:05:52,524 --> 00:05:53,264 when to 156 00:05:54,149 --> 00:05:54,790 when to, 157 00:05:55,509 --> 00:05:56,410 build internally, 158 00:05:56,870 --> 00:05:57,610 when to 159 00:05:58,230 --> 00:06:00,629 go to an external company? The approach we've 160 00:06:00,629 --> 00:06:01,689 been taking is 161 00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:03,610 we build internally 162 00:06:04,069 --> 00:06:07,129 anything that's highly value added, differentiating, 163 00:06:08,069 --> 00:06:08,730 and unique 164 00:06:10,514 --> 00:06:11,095 to us 165 00:06:11,955 --> 00:06:14,435 and helps us get to our customer experience 166 00:06:14,435 --> 00:06:16,855 goals and our operational efficiency goals. 167 00:06:17,235 --> 00:06:19,095 That's things that are unique to us, 168 00:06:19,555 --> 00:06:22,055 differentiating to us, we build internally. 169 00:06:23,394 --> 00:06:24,455 If we see, 170 00:06:25,930 --> 00:06:26,910 things that, 171 00:06:27,689 --> 00:06:29,449 that there are gaps that we need to 172 00:06:29,449 --> 00:06:30,350 fill and 173 00:06:30,810 --> 00:06:33,149 a startup can fill that gap quickly, 174 00:06:33,770 --> 00:06:36,170 we go there. We go invest with them, 175 00:06:36,170 --> 00:06:37,790 and we integrate with them. 176 00:06:38,170 --> 00:06:40,605 And we actually help them get better, in 177 00:06:40,605 --> 00:06:42,305 in in their product road map. 178 00:06:44,045 --> 00:06:46,285 So it's a it's it's kind of a 179 00:06:46,285 --> 00:06:47,504 spectrum of things 180 00:06:47,964 --> 00:06:49,904 on on things we build internally 181 00:06:50,685 --> 00:06:52,384 and things we build with 182 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:55,660 the, startups we invest in. We are also 183 00:06:56,259 --> 00:06:58,779 I we we talked about this at the 184 00:06:58,779 --> 00:06:59,279 investor 185 00:06:59,740 --> 00:07:00,240 day. 186 00:07:00,620 --> 00:07:02,079 We are well underway 187 00:07:02,939 --> 00:07:03,680 into becoming 188 00:07:04,459 --> 00:07:05,120 a technology 189 00:07:06,144 --> 00:07:08,004 products and services provider 190 00:07:08,384 --> 00:07:10,245 to the rest of the health care industry. 191 00:07:10,865 --> 00:07:11,365 So 192 00:07:12,144 --> 00:07:15,584 now we are not only building technology products 193 00:07:15,584 --> 00:07:16,964 for internal use, 194 00:07:17,344 --> 00:07:20,485 we are also building them and productizing them, 195 00:07:21,389 --> 00:07:23,550 that that the rest of the industry can 196 00:07:23,550 --> 00:07:24,610 adopt as well. 197 00:07:25,389 --> 00:07:28,350 And that's a really fascinating business strategy, Tilak, 198 00:07:28,350 --> 00:07:30,290 that you're you're pivoting towards becoming, 199 00:07:31,550 --> 00:07:33,709 like you said, a provider of tech to 200 00:07:33,709 --> 00:07:37,154 other health care companies, tech services. And, you 201 00:07:37,154 --> 00:07:39,634 know, CVS overall as as an organization, of 202 00:07:39,634 --> 00:07:41,735 course, you sit at such a unique intersection 203 00:07:42,035 --> 00:07:45,414 of of an insurer, a PBM, retail pharmacy, 204 00:07:45,634 --> 00:07:46,694 primary care. 205 00:07:47,009 --> 00:07:49,589 And we've been hearing for decades now about 206 00:07:49,810 --> 00:07:51,349 the promise of interoperability, 207 00:07:51,649 --> 00:07:53,009 and I think that goes along with this 208 00:07:53,009 --> 00:07:55,029 conversation of what you were just talking about. 209 00:07:55,250 --> 00:07:55,990 So I wonder, 210 00:07:56,370 --> 00:07:58,389 why do you think that patients or providers 211 00:07:58,610 --> 00:07:59,909 on the ground should believe 212 00:08:00,209 --> 00:08:01,110 that interoperability 213 00:08:01,729 --> 00:08:03,245 is finally working now. 214 00:08:04,745 --> 00:08:05,404 I think 215 00:08:05,865 --> 00:08:07,404 so. Hey, Jacob. 216 00:08:07,944 --> 00:08:10,764 I I I share some of the pessimism 217 00:08:10,985 --> 00:08:11,884 from the past 218 00:08:12,904 --> 00:08:13,725 on interoperability, 219 00:08:15,064 --> 00:08:16,824 having learned that in the last three years, 220 00:08:16,824 --> 00:08:17,884 some of the challenges. 221 00:08:18,689 --> 00:08:20,310 But I'm actually very optimistic. 222 00:08:20,689 --> 00:08:22,389 I think this is the time 223 00:08:23,009 --> 00:08:24,149 for that interoperability, 224 00:08:25,970 --> 00:08:27,350 challenges to be resolved. 225 00:08:27,889 --> 00:08:30,769 The reason I feel quite optimistic is the 226 00:08:30,769 --> 00:08:31,269 following. 227 00:08:31,810 --> 00:08:32,309 One, 228 00:08:32,915 --> 00:08:34,695 I think, the administration, 229 00:08:35,394 --> 00:08:35,894 CMS, 230 00:08:37,235 --> 00:08:39,815 is very focused on addressing interoperability 231 00:08:40,195 --> 00:08:40,695 challenges. 232 00:08:41,795 --> 00:08:42,295 Second, 233 00:08:43,634 --> 00:08:44,134 the, 234 00:08:45,235 --> 00:08:46,134 AI transformation. 235 00:08:47,549 --> 00:08:50,990 Look. AI has incredible potential, and I think 236 00:08:50,990 --> 00:08:53,789 it's a leapfrog technology that health care has 237 00:08:53,789 --> 00:08:54,850 been waiting for. 238 00:08:55,629 --> 00:08:56,129 But 239 00:08:56,509 --> 00:08:57,570 AI on its own 240 00:08:58,190 --> 00:09:00,850 would not be able to reimagine or transform 241 00:09:00,990 --> 00:09:01,649 health care. 242 00:09:02,245 --> 00:09:05,204 AI, for us to realize, for this industry 243 00:09:05,204 --> 00:09:07,464 to realize the full potential of AI, 244 00:09:07,924 --> 00:09:10,745 it needs to be AI plus interoperability. 245 00:09:11,924 --> 00:09:13,544 And I think, that 246 00:09:14,450 --> 00:09:14,950 understanding 247 00:09:15,410 --> 00:09:16,629 is now clear, 248 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:21,029 across the industry. So I think there's momentum 249 00:09:21,090 --> 00:09:21,910 behind that. 250 00:09:23,090 --> 00:09:23,590 The, 251 00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:28,470 another reason I'm optimistic about interoperability is technology 252 00:09:28,769 --> 00:09:30,345 advanced quite well. Right? 253 00:09:31,365 --> 00:09:31,865 So, 254 00:09:33,205 --> 00:09:35,544 not just the AI part of the technology, 255 00:09:35,764 --> 00:09:38,105 the communications technology, the, 256 00:09:38,831 --> 00:09:41,544 the the the digital technology advances 257 00:09:42,164 --> 00:09:42,985 now make 258 00:09:43,899 --> 00:09:44,779 electronic transfer of, 259 00:09:46,220 --> 00:09:47,919 records, API based 260 00:09:48,379 --> 00:09:48,879 access, 261 00:09:49,419 --> 00:09:49,919 tokenization. 262 00:09:51,179 --> 00:09:52,940 All of those things are now a lot 263 00:09:52,940 --> 00:09:55,980 easier to do. So the hurdles that used 264 00:09:55,980 --> 00:09:56,559 to remain 265 00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:58,320 in the path of interoperability 266 00:09:59,165 --> 00:10:01,745 from a technology perspective are a lot less. 267 00:10:02,285 --> 00:10:05,004 So I'm I am, I am bullish about 268 00:10:05,004 --> 00:10:05,504 interoperability. 269 00:10:07,085 --> 00:10:08,065 I do think, 270 00:10:08,764 --> 00:10:09,745 there are certain, 271 00:10:10,845 --> 00:10:13,425 certain decisions need to be made. I think 272 00:10:14,490 --> 00:10:16,269 there is a lot of push towards 273 00:10:16,970 --> 00:10:17,470 interoperability 274 00:10:18,330 --> 00:10:19,070 on the 275 00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:20,669 provider side. 276 00:10:21,129 --> 00:10:22,029 So the provider's 277 00:10:22,889 --> 00:10:23,389 getting 278 00:10:23,769 --> 00:10:25,149 the data they need. 279 00:10:25,610 --> 00:10:27,450 There is a lot of push on the 280 00:10:27,450 --> 00:10:27,850 side of, 281 00:10:29,195 --> 00:10:29,855 the consumer, 282 00:10:30,315 --> 00:10:31,934 consumers having access 283 00:10:32,394 --> 00:10:34,315 to the data that they need and they 284 00:10:34,315 --> 00:10:35,455 desire to have. 285 00:10:35,995 --> 00:10:38,575 I think similar push needs to happen 286 00:10:39,195 --> 00:10:40,654 on the payer side. 287 00:10:41,115 --> 00:10:42,095 I think payers 288 00:10:42,980 --> 00:10:44,440 having access to, 289 00:10:45,379 --> 00:10:47,480 the full health care record 290 00:10:48,259 --> 00:10:49,879 would be incredibly helpful 291 00:10:50,419 --> 00:10:51,639 for payers to, 292 00:10:52,579 --> 00:10:54,199 support their members 293 00:10:54,659 --> 00:10:57,480 in a much more consumer centric way 294 00:10:57,865 --> 00:11:00,045 than has been possible in the past. 295 00:11:01,225 --> 00:11:02,665 Sure. No. That makes a lot of sense, 296 00:11:02,665 --> 00:11:04,105 and I I think that's a good counter 297 00:11:04,105 --> 00:11:05,865 to maybe some of the pessimism that you 298 00:11:05,865 --> 00:11:07,404 mentioned around interoperability 299 00:11:07,785 --> 00:11:09,245 that we've seen over 300 00:11:09,945 --> 00:11:10,919 decades now. 301 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,159 But interesting to hear you say that this 302 00:11:13,159 --> 00:11:14,379 this intersection of, 303 00:11:14,919 --> 00:11:17,720 government focus on its on the emergence of 304 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,019 of better AI tools, 305 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,759 and then some of the barriers that are 306 00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:23,240 coming down as tech advances all working together, 307 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,134 to make 308 00:11:24,455 --> 00:11:25,674 this finally possible. 309 00:11:26,215 --> 00:11:27,575 And I I wanna stay on the I 310 00:11:27,654 --> 00:11:29,595 AI conversation, Talak, because, 311 00:11:30,054 --> 00:11:31,174 as you know, we've seen a lot of 312 00:11:31,174 --> 00:11:33,174 big announcements already this year with some of 313 00:11:33,174 --> 00:11:35,654 the largest companies in this space rolling out 314 00:11:35,654 --> 00:11:37,674 new health care features for consumers. 315 00:11:38,215 --> 00:11:41,570 And so as somebody who's leading CVS's AI 316 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:45,269 strategy across across pharmacy, PBM, care delivery, 317 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:48,529 how do you think that more consumer AI 318 00:11:48,529 --> 00:11:49,029 entering 319 00:11:49,970 --> 00:11:51,590 health care is changing 320 00:11:52,050 --> 00:11:54,884 your technology road map. And any any broad 321 00:11:54,884 --> 00:11:56,424 thoughts on these announcements? 322 00:11:57,524 --> 00:11:58,585 Yeah. So 323 00:11:59,565 --> 00:12:00,065 I 324 00:12:01,205 --> 00:12:01,705 AI 325 00:12:02,325 --> 00:12:04,085 AI can do a lot of things really 326 00:12:04,085 --> 00:12:05,144 well, Jacob. 327 00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:08,019 There is no doubt about it. And I 328 00:12:08,019 --> 00:12:10,360 think as an augmentative technology, 329 00:12:12,179 --> 00:12:13,320 AI is already, 330 00:12:14,340 --> 00:12:15,399 really transforming 331 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:16,440 healthcare. 332 00:12:17,059 --> 00:12:20,519 And the clinical AI is progressing quite well. 333 00:12:21,315 --> 00:12:23,235 There is still a lot of ground to 334 00:12:23,235 --> 00:12:23,735 cover, 335 00:12:24,674 --> 00:12:25,415 in terms 336 00:12:25,875 --> 00:12:26,615 of triage, 337 00:12:27,634 --> 00:12:28,134 accuracy, 338 00:12:28,514 --> 00:12:31,654 and the ability to guide care, etcetera, 339 00:12:32,915 --> 00:12:35,254 and augmenting the human physician. 340 00:12:35,899 --> 00:12:37,980 I think I think that's that's the direction 341 00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:39,740 things are gonna go and and things are 342 00:12:39,740 --> 00:12:40,799 progressing well. 343 00:12:41,340 --> 00:12:43,660 But there is there is room to room 344 00:12:43,660 --> 00:12:44,639 to run still. 345 00:12:45,259 --> 00:12:47,120 On the services AI side, 346 00:12:48,634 --> 00:12:51,274 whether it's in the call center experiences or 347 00:12:51,274 --> 00:12:52,735 care management experiences, 348 00:12:53,835 --> 00:12:55,455 AI is really, really 349 00:12:55,995 --> 00:12:56,975 helping consumers 350 00:12:57,995 --> 00:12:59,134 navigate care 351 00:12:59,835 --> 00:13:01,215 and becoming a concierge 352 00:13:02,410 --> 00:13:05,769 for for consumers. And that's the underlying premise 353 00:13:05,769 --> 00:13:06,269 behind 354 00:13:06,649 --> 00:13:07,129 our, 355 00:13:07,529 --> 00:13:10,410 the open engagement platform we announced at our 356 00:13:10,410 --> 00:13:12,110 investor day in December. 357 00:13:12,809 --> 00:13:15,049 But I wanna I wanna come come to 358 00:13:15,049 --> 00:13:17,309 the the very important question you asked. 359 00:13:19,125 --> 00:13:20,904 Look. AI is a technology, 360 00:13:21,365 --> 00:13:22,904 and it could do a lot of things. 361 00:13:23,605 --> 00:13:24,584 But, really, 362 00:13:25,044 --> 00:13:26,264 a company's ability 363 00:13:26,884 --> 00:13:28,664 to reimagine health care 364 00:13:29,764 --> 00:13:31,384 doesn't depend on AI. 365 00:13:32,139 --> 00:13:33,759 It depends on trust. 366 00:13:35,179 --> 00:13:35,839 The companies 367 00:13:36,539 --> 00:13:38,559 that held a consumer trust 368 00:13:39,899 --> 00:13:41,519 and consumer engagement 369 00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:44,000 with trust, 370 00:13:44,865 --> 00:13:46,085 those are the companies 371 00:13:46,705 --> 00:13:48,164 that will be able to, 372 00:13:48,544 --> 00:13:49,924 reimagine health care. 373 00:13:50,465 --> 00:13:50,965 And 374 00:13:51,664 --> 00:13:53,825 you asked what impact does it have on 375 00:13:53,825 --> 00:13:57,044 my on our CVS Health technology road map. 376 00:13:57,184 --> 00:13:59,424 The good thing is we had a head 377 00:13:59,424 --> 00:13:59,924 start. 378 00:14:00,450 --> 00:14:01,110 We were 379 00:14:01,730 --> 00:14:03,830 actively developing with AI 380 00:14:04,370 --> 00:14:05,910 well before ChargeGPT 381 00:14:06,370 --> 00:14:08,790 made AI a mainstream topic. 382 00:14:09,649 --> 00:14:12,769 So we feel very confident with where we 383 00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:13,269 are 384 00:14:13,745 --> 00:14:16,945 with the, with using AI in improving both 385 00:14:16,945 --> 00:14:19,024 on the services side as well as on 386 00:14:19,024 --> 00:14:20,245 the clinical side. 387 00:14:21,024 --> 00:14:23,684 But we also started out with extremely 388 00:14:24,225 --> 00:14:26,084 well defined principles of 389 00:14:26,690 --> 00:14:27,269 we will 390 00:14:27,809 --> 00:14:29,589 never compromise on human touch. 391 00:14:29,970 --> 00:14:30,950 We will never 392 00:14:31,409 --> 00:14:31,909 allow, 393 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:34,690 AI to get in the in in in 394 00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:35,589 the middle of 395 00:14:35,889 --> 00:14:40,049 providing care to to our consumers and allowing 396 00:14:40,049 --> 00:14:41,990 consumers to have access to care. 397 00:14:42,605 --> 00:14:44,444 The the the principles are very important to 398 00:14:44,444 --> 00:14:46,845 us, and we structured our AI program around 399 00:14:46,845 --> 00:14:47,504 those principles. 400 00:14:49,004 --> 00:14:51,245 But we have a great advantage. We have 401 00:14:51,245 --> 00:14:52,464 the consumer trust 402 00:14:53,884 --> 00:14:56,779 that people trust CVS. People come to CVS, 403 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,360 185,000,000 404 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,940 folks engage with CVS every year. 405 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:03,720 And I think that's what gives us the 406 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:04,460 leg up. 407 00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:07,980 Amongst all these announcements you hear, 408 00:15:08,514 --> 00:15:10,434 we have the same type the same or 409 00:15:10,434 --> 00:15:11,815 even more advanced technologies. 410 00:15:12,914 --> 00:15:15,254 But in addition, we have the consumer trust. 411 00:15:16,274 --> 00:15:18,274 Absolutely. I think what you just said overall 412 00:15:18,274 --> 00:15:20,434 is such an important point, Tala, for for 413 00:15:20,434 --> 00:15:22,355 all of our listeners. And and and you're 414 00:15:22,355 --> 00:15:25,360 right. CBS is such a trusted brand, 415 00:15:26,059 --> 00:15:28,299 for for people. And as you continue to 416 00:15:28,299 --> 00:15:31,120 double down on that customer experience overall, 417 00:15:32,059 --> 00:15:34,139 that that trust in AI is going to 418 00:15:34,139 --> 00:15:35,740 be so critical. And I like I said, 419 00:15:35,740 --> 00:15:37,279 I think that's such an important message, 420 00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:38,639 for all of the organizations listening in 421 00:15:39,179 --> 00:15:39,679 as 422 00:15:43,315 --> 00:15:46,195 you you mentioned the consumer engagement platform that 423 00:15:46,195 --> 00:15:46,774 you announced 424 00:15:47,075 --> 00:15:49,315 at your at your last investor day. Can 425 00:15:49,315 --> 00:15:51,235 you fill our listeners in a little bit 426 00:15:51,235 --> 00:15:52,110 about that, 427 00:15:52,589 --> 00:15:54,669 what that is, and and why is it 428 00:15:54,669 --> 00:15:56,589 important overall for the company and then, of 429 00:15:56,589 --> 00:15:58,209 course, for for your customers? 430 00:15:59,549 --> 00:16:00,269 Yeah. I'll, 431 00:16:01,230 --> 00:16:03,169 I'll go through that in a quick detail, 432 00:16:03,389 --> 00:16:05,950 and, happy to answer any questions you have 433 00:16:05,950 --> 00:16:06,769 on that, Jacob. 434 00:16:08,245 --> 00:16:08,745 We 435 00:16:09,205 --> 00:16:11,845 believe consumer engagement in health care is the 436 00:16:11,845 --> 00:16:12,665 holy grail. 437 00:16:13,045 --> 00:16:15,205 If we get consumers to engage in their 438 00:16:15,205 --> 00:16:15,945 health care 439 00:16:16,404 --> 00:16:18,345 frequently, consistently, constantly, 440 00:16:19,205 --> 00:16:20,585 that will lead to trust. 441 00:16:21,049 --> 00:16:24,409 Trust leads to behavior change. And behavior change 442 00:16:24,409 --> 00:16:26,669 by far has been shown to be 443 00:16:27,289 --> 00:16:29,949 the best predictor of healthcare outcomes. 444 00:16:30,649 --> 00:16:33,289 So we got into this wanting to how 445 00:16:33,289 --> 00:16:33,949 do we 446 00:16:34,644 --> 00:16:35,704 how do we inspire 447 00:16:36,565 --> 00:16:39,524 much stronger engagement in health care by the 448 00:16:39,524 --> 00:16:40,024 consumers? 449 00:16:40,964 --> 00:16:41,464 And 450 00:16:42,245 --> 00:16:44,964 we offer as part of the and and 451 00:16:44,964 --> 00:16:45,704 we also 452 00:16:46,084 --> 00:16:47,865 were very clear right at the beginning, 453 00:16:48,579 --> 00:16:50,200 this needs to be an open platform. 454 00:16:50,740 --> 00:16:51,720 So the platform 455 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:54,500 needs to be able to connect to any 456 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:56,200 payer, any provider, 457 00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:58,120 any PBM, 458 00:16:59,139 --> 00:17:00,600 and any pharmacy 459 00:17:01,774 --> 00:17:04,355 because those are all the health care stakeholders 460 00:17:04,414 --> 00:17:05,715 that a consumer touches. 461 00:17:06,414 --> 00:17:09,234 So we wanted to create a consumer centric 462 00:17:09,295 --> 00:17:11,234 platform. It's for the consumer. 463 00:17:12,015 --> 00:17:14,355 It's driven by the consumer preferences 464 00:17:14,734 --> 00:17:17,180 and and needs. So So it's for the 465 00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:18,240 consumer's health 466 00:17:18,619 --> 00:17:19,359 end to 467 00:17:19,819 --> 00:17:22,640 end, and, hence, it's completely open. So whichever, 468 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:24,319 health care, 469 00:17:25,259 --> 00:17:28,299 stakeholder the consumer is interacting with, that stakeholder 470 00:17:28,299 --> 00:17:29,839 can integrate into this platform 471 00:17:30,274 --> 00:17:31,174 to provide 472 00:17:31,474 --> 00:17:32,375 a consumer 473 00:17:32,755 --> 00:17:33,255 oriented 474 00:17:33,634 --> 00:17:34,454 end to end 475 00:17:34,755 --> 00:17:36,534 completely connected experience 476 00:17:36,914 --> 00:17:39,075 for health care to that consumer in the 477 00:17:39,075 --> 00:17:39,575 platform. 478 00:17:40,755 --> 00:17:43,335 And the platform offers three services. 479 00:17:43,799 --> 00:17:45,720 I think that's that's why for the, 480 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,779 for for potential stakeholders, 481 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:50,840 the way to think about it is it 482 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:51,980 offers three services. 483 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:53,259 One is 484 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,340 pharmacy as a service. 485 00:17:56,595 --> 00:17:57,095 So 486 00:17:57,474 --> 00:17:58,454 we are packaging 487 00:17:58,755 --> 00:17:59,255 the, 488 00:18:00,595 --> 00:18:03,554 pharmacy technologies that we have developed, which we 489 00:18:03,554 --> 00:18:04,934 believe are world class. 490 00:18:05,315 --> 00:18:05,815 And, 491 00:18:06,994 --> 00:18:09,335 any pharmacy in the country can use 492 00:18:09,809 --> 00:18:10,210 the, 493 00:18:10,769 --> 00:18:13,809 these pharmacy technologies and be a much better 494 00:18:13,809 --> 00:18:15,110 pharmacy, quite frankly. 495 00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:18,630 Second service is called engagement as service. 496 00:18:19,009 --> 00:18:19,910 This is where, 497 00:18:20,850 --> 00:18:21,350 we 498 00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:24,914 allow the stakeholders to have direct relationship with 499 00:18:24,914 --> 00:18:25,654 the consumers 500 00:18:25,955 --> 00:18:28,035 to help consumers to get the most out 501 00:18:28,035 --> 00:18:28,934 of their healthcare. 502 00:18:30,035 --> 00:18:30,855 And third, 503 00:18:31,555 --> 00:18:34,215 is, insights as a service. So, 504 00:18:35,795 --> 00:18:37,494 based on the consumer engagement, 505 00:18:38,339 --> 00:18:39,240 are there things 506 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:41,319 that our consumers want, 507 00:18:42,179 --> 00:18:44,579 that we can learn from them and make 508 00:18:44,579 --> 00:18:45,720 our products better, 509 00:18:46,259 --> 00:18:48,039 and many other types of insights? 510 00:18:48,740 --> 00:18:51,140 So that's why we think the stakeholders would 511 00:18:51,140 --> 00:18:53,625 be very interested in joining this platform in 512 00:18:53,625 --> 00:18:55,244 addition to wanting to provide 513 00:18:55,704 --> 00:18:57,325 a great consumer experience. 514 00:18:57,865 --> 00:18:59,244 On the consumer side, 515 00:18:59,945 --> 00:19:02,365 the value proposition is incredibly compelling. 516 00:19:03,144 --> 00:19:03,964 We basically 517 00:19:05,065 --> 00:19:07,144 want to do all the homework, the healthcare 518 00:19:07,144 --> 00:19:09,779 homework, which is incredibly frustrating to consumers. 519 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,480 We wanna do it for them so they 520 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,940 can focus on their health. 521 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:15,700 We want 522 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,860 a essentially, a health concierge in the pocket 523 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,059 of our consumers, 524 00:19:21,904 --> 00:19:23,765 helping them, informing them, 525 00:19:24,144 --> 00:19:26,144 supporting them, and and, 526 00:19:26,744 --> 00:19:27,845 and and, 527 00:19:28,464 --> 00:19:30,964 taking out the stress that is prevalent 528 00:19:31,505 --> 00:19:33,605 in health care today for the consumer. 529 00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:37,369 And and now we want consumers to own 530 00:19:37,910 --> 00:19:40,250 their health and their health care. 531 00:19:40,869 --> 00:19:42,789 They want to we want them to own 532 00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:45,269 their own decisions on health care by being 533 00:19:45,269 --> 00:19:46,169 better informed. 534 00:19:47,204 --> 00:19:48,825 And so the consumer, 535 00:19:49,365 --> 00:19:51,065 value proposition is incredibly, 536 00:19:51,845 --> 00:19:52,345 powerful, 537 00:19:52,644 --> 00:19:53,625 especially because 538 00:19:54,005 --> 00:19:57,204 it's an open platform and it integrates all 539 00:19:57,204 --> 00:19:57,704 stakeholders 540 00:19:58,244 --> 00:19:59,625 that the consumer touches, 541 00:20:00,980 --> 00:20:04,119 well outside of the CVS Health ecosystem itself. 542 00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:06,740 So we are very bullish about it. We 543 00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:09,320 are well underway, and more and more details 544 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:10,440 would come 545 00:20:10,820 --> 00:20:13,000 as the, as we go through the year. 546 00:20:13,714 --> 00:20:16,914 Understood. It's exciting times clearly to lock into 547 00:20:16,914 --> 00:20:17,894 your point earlier. 548 00:20:18,595 --> 00:20:20,674 Now is the time from a variety of 549 00:20:20,674 --> 00:20:21,815 factors for interoperability 550 00:20:22,195 --> 00:20:22,775 to become, 551 00:20:23,315 --> 00:20:26,035 tangible, and and CVS is clearly leading the 552 00:20:26,035 --> 00:20:29,240 forefront there. So appreciate you sharing details around 553 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,480 that new platform with us, and with our 554 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:31,980 listeners. 555 00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:34,920 In that vein, Tlac, what else are we 556 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,640 missing for everybody listening in right now? You've 557 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,480 got the ears of a lot of other 558 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,579 health care leaders from all over the country 559 00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:42,779 as we speak. 560 00:20:43,464 --> 00:20:44,904 What do you wanna share with them? Any 561 00:20:44,904 --> 00:20:46,664 wrap up thoughts or or final bits of 562 00:20:46,664 --> 00:20:47,164 advice? 563 00:20:47,865 --> 00:20:50,585 I'll, I'll you know, coming from our set 564 00:20:50,585 --> 00:20:51,484 of health care, 565 00:20:52,264 --> 00:20:52,764 Jacob, 566 00:20:53,544 --> 00:20:56,184 I I do wanna make one pitch to 567 00:20:56,184 --> 00:20:57,724 the entire health care industry. 568 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,740 And I say this as me, 569 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,740 a consumer of healthcare, 570 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,139 not as a CVS Health executive. 571 00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:07,460 So it's just me saying, 572 00:21:08,639 --> 00:21:11,539 stop fighting with each other and help me. 573 00:21:12,755 --> 00:21:13,575 It's not 574 00:21:13,954 --> 00:21:14,855 it's pointless 575 00:21:15,794 --> 00:21:16,294 for 576 00:21:16,595 --> 00:21:17,815 the different stakeholders, 577 00:21:18,434 --> 00:21:18,934 pharmaceutical 578 00:21:19,234 --> 00:21:20,375 companies, PBMs, 579 00:21:20,914 --> 00:21:21,414 pharmacies, 580 00:21:21,954 --> 00:21:22,454 payers, 581 00:21:22,914 --> 00:21:23,414 providers. 582 00:21:24,929 --> 00:21:27,109 You all every one of you 583 00:21:27,649 --> 00:21:29,909 play an incredibly important role 584 00:21:30,450 --> 00:21:33,329 in an incredibly important function, health care, in 585 00:21:33,329 --> 00:21:34,069 this country. 586 00:21:35,329 --> 00:21:36,389 I would 587 00:21:36,769 --> 00:21:38,849 like to see a world where each of 588 00:21:38,849 --> 00:21:40,230 the health care stakeholders 589 00:21:41,705 --> 00:21:43,325 actually work together, 590 00:21:44,184 --> 00:21:46,684 together in combination with the administration. 591 00:21:47,945 --> 00:21:48,924 Start up companies 592 00:21:49,384 --> 00:21:49,884 and 593 00:21:50,424 --> 00:21:53,325 incumbents, large incumbents that are willing to transform 594 00:21:53,625 --> 00:21:56,105 and wanting to transform health care like CUS 595 00:21:56,105 --> 00:21:56,460 Health, 596 00:21:57,099 --> 00:21:58,079 working together. 597 00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:01,679 All of us working together 598 00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:04,159 to make the consumer's 599 00:22:05,099 --> 00:22:05,839 health care 600 00:22:06,220 --> 00:22:09,119 and health outcomes better. That's what 601 00:22:09,525 --> 00:22:12,404 American people want, and that's what, as an 602 00:22:12,404 --> 00:22:13,865 industry, we need to deliver. 603 00:22:14,164 --> 00:22:16,025 And the only way to deliver 604 00:22:16,484 --> 00:22:16,984 is 605 00:22:17,365 --> 00:22:18,585 for us to collaborate, 606 00:22:19,525 --> 00:22:20,025 not 607 00:22:20,484 --> 00:22:20,984 fight. 608 00:22:21,789 --> 00:22:24,029 That's that's the that's my thoughts as a 609 00:22:24,029 --> 00:22:25,329 consumer of health care. 610 00:22:25,950 --> 00:22:28,670 The wise message, and I appreciate you sharing 611 00:22:28,670 --> 00:22:31,789 that with us, Talak. And and, overall, appreciate 612 00:22:31,789 --> 00:22:32,750 you being here, 613 00:22:33,150 --> 00:22:35,595 with us, giving us your insights, and and 614 00:22:35,595 --> 00:22:37,355 telling us a little bit about all the 615 00:22:37,355 --> 00:22:40,075 important work happening under your leadership and with 616 00:22:40,075 --> 00:22:42,235 your teams at CVS Health. We we really 617 00:22:42,235 --> 00:22:43,695 appreciate you taking the time. 618 00:22:44,046 --> 00:22:46,706 Thank you, Jacob. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. 619 00:22:47,006 --> 00:22:48,766 And to our listeners, if you'd like to 620 00:22:48,766 --> 00:22:51,086 listen to more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare, you 621 00:22:51,086 --> 00:22:53,826 can visit beckershospitalreview.com.