1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,059 This is where health insurance leadership comes together. 2 00:00:05,279 --> 00:00:08,960 Becker's fourth annual spring payer issues roundtable brings 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,259 together over 400 payer and health plan executives 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,524 and more than 100 speakers to Chicago April. 5 00:00:16,904 --> 00:00:19,785 This year's event includes keynote conversations with the 6 00:00:19,785 --> 00:00:23,064 industry's top leaders and former president George W. 7 00:00:23,064 --> 00:00:25,704 Bush. For the full agenda and event details, 8 00:00:25,704 --> 00:00:27,785 visit beckershospitalreview.com 9 00:00:27,785 --> 00:00:29,224 and click on the events tab in the 10 00:00:29,224 --> 00:00:31,519 upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you 11 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:32,659 here in Chicago. 12 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,159 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Becker's Healthcare 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,479 Podcast. I'm Scott King. Thrilled today to be 14 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,939 joined by Jay Nakashima, president of eHealth Exchange. 15 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,439 Jay, how are you doing today? Thanks so 16 00:00:43,439 --> 00:00:44,500 much for joining us. 17 00:00:44,975 --> 00:00:46,975 Yeah. Hey. Thank you for having me. I'm 18 00:00:46,975 --> 00:00:47,715 doing great. 19 00:00:48,335 --> 00:00:50,494 Excellent. Yeah. It's a new year, but, some 20 00:00:50,494 --> 00:00:52,354 of the same kind of trends and topics 21 00:00:52,734 --> 00:00:54,335 in health care and with health plans and 22 00:00:54,335 --> 00:00:55,934 and so maybe some new ones to address. 23 00:00:55,934 --> 00:00:57,774 So we'll dive into all that. But, Jay, 24 00:00:57,774 --> 00:00:59,340 before we get started on the topics, I 25 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:00,620 was just wondering if you could please share 26 00:01:00,620 --> 00:01:03,020 a little bit about your background and career 27 00:01:03,020 --> 00:01:03,840 journey, please. 28 00:01:04,859 --> 00:01:06,140 Yeah. You bet. So, 29 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:10,319 so I've been working in the health IT 30 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:10,880 space 31 00:01:11,284 --> 00:01:12,984 for over thirty years. 32 00:01:13,284 --> 00:01:15,465 I spent about ten years, 33 00:01:17,125 --> 00:01:19,465 my first ten years with health plans 34 00:01:20,084 --> 00:01:22,265 as they were merging and 35 00:01:22,804 --> 00:01:25,144 acquiring others every other day, 36 00:01:25,750 --> 00:01:27,129 and, was ultimately 37 00:01:27,509 --> 00:01:28,329 the CIO 38 00:01:28,709 --> 00:01:29,929 of an HMO 39 00:01:30,229 --> 00:01:30,729 PPO. 40 00:01:31,429 --> 00:01:33,689 I then moved over to the 41 00:01:34,469 --> 00:01:34,969 clinical 42 00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:37,769 IT space. So I worked for 43 00:01:38,310 --> 00:01:40,409 a couple of large, 44 00:01:41,614 --> 00:01:42,834 EHR vendors 45 00:01:43,375 --> 00:01:44,254 that helped out, 46 00:01:44,814 --> 00:01:46,674 hospitals and health systems. 47 00:01:47,614 --> 00:01:49,715 I then went to work for a large 48 00:01:49,854 --> 00:01:50,354 national 49 00:01:50,734 --> 00:01:51,234 provider, 50 00:01:52,015 --> 00:01:54,994 again, on the clinical IT strategy 51 00:01:56,769 --> 00:01:58,310 side. And then I've been, 52 00:01:58,849 --> 00:01:59,349 running 53 00:01:59,650 --> 00:02:00,629 eHealth Exchange, 54 00:02:01,890 --> 00:02:03,030 which is a nonprofit, 55 00:02:04,530 --> 00:02:07,569 data exchange network, and I've been doing that 56 00:02:07,569 --> 00:02:08,469 for the past 57 00:02:09,009 --> 00:02:09,830 eight years. 58 00:02:10,895 --> 00:02:12,895 Wow. Thanks for sharing your career journey, Jay. 59 00:02:12,895 --> 00:02:15,215 So much great experience in there. The first 60 00:02:15,215 --> 00:02:16,754 topic I wanted to get to, 61 00:02:17,135 --> 00:02:19,715 how are your relationships with providers changing 62 00:02:20,175 --> 00:02:23,235 as both sides face cost pressure and workforce 63 00:02:23,295 --> 00:02:23,795 shortages? 64 00:02:24,939 --> 00:02:26,079 Yeah. Great question. 65 00:02:26,539 --> 00:02:30,219 So eHealth Exchange was created about twenty years 66 00:02:30,219 --> 00:02:32,159 ago by the federal government, 67 00:02:32,780 --> 00:02:34,319 as strange as that sounds, 68 00:02:34,939 --> 00:02:35,419 as, 69 00:02:35,739 --> 00:02:36,719 as a nonprofit 70 00:02:37,259 --> 00:02:38,479 health tech company, 71 00:02:39,215 --> 00:02:40,835 another strange concept. 72 00:02:41,455 --> 00:02:42,594 But at any rate, 73 00:02:42,974 --> 00:02:45,715 the Health Exchange was originally founded, 74 00:02:46,895 --> 00:02:47,555 to help 75 00:02:47,855 --> 00:02:48,915 health care providers 76 00:02:50,094 --> 00:02:50,594 exchange, 77 00:02:51,375 --> 00:02:54,049 rich clinical information, so patients' 78 00:02:54,509 --> 00:02:56,209 electronic medical records, 79 00:02:56,750 --> 00:03:00,610 and, to exchange those among healthcare providers 80 00:03:01,389 --> 00:03:03,250 and with federal agencies. 81 00:03:04,205 --> 00:03:05,824 So, when I mentioned federal 82 00:03:06,125 --> 00:03:08,544 agencies, you might think of like the 83 00:03:09,164 --> 00:03:10,224 Veterans Administration, 84 00:03:10,604 --> 00:03:11,344 the largest, 85 00:03:12,284 --> 00:03:14,145 healthcare provider in the country, 86 00:03:14,764 --> 00:03:17,105 and the Department of Defense, who has army 87 00:03:17,105 --> 00:03:18,064 hospitals, navy hospitals, etcetera. But at any rate, 88 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:19,500 hospitals, 89 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:20,300 etcetera. 90 00:03:21,719 --> 00:03:22,939 But at any rate, 91 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,199 it really took us it really took us 92 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:27,739 a good ten years, 93 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,219 to get health care providers 94 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:31,340 to exchange 95 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:32,139 data 96 00:03:32,599 --> 00:03:34,955 at scale and with trust. 97 00:03:35,495 --> 00:03:38,314 And that was for the HIPAA treatment purposes. 98 00:03:39,655 --> 00:03:41,574 And, you know, got to the point where 99 00:03:41,574 --> 00:03:42,555 we were exchanging, 100 00:03:43,254 --> 00:03:45,354 you know, over 20,000,000,000 101 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:46,939 healthcare 102 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:47,740 transactions 103 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:48,939 annually, 104 00:03:49,639 --> 00:03:51,740 and of course, in all 50 states. 105 00:03:52,439 --> 00:03:55,740 And, and now we're up to 25,000,000,000. 106 00:03:56,439 --> 00:03:58,700 But the vast majority of those, 107 00:03:59,284 --> 00:04:01,784 electronic medical records being exchanged 108 00:04:02,645 --> 00:04:05,705 are still being exchanged for the HIPAA treatment 109 00:04:06,405 --> 00:04:06,905 purpose. 110 00:04:07,205 --> 00:04:08,185 So, think of 111 00:04:08,645 --> 00:04:10,905 a clinician at the chair side, bedside, 112 00:04:11,205 --> 00:04:12,425 tableside, whatever, 113 00:04:13,169 --> 00:04:16,209 about to prescribe a medication or order a 114 00:04:16,209 --> 00:04:16,709 surgery. 115 00:04:17,649 --> 00:04:20,790 And we've shifted over the past five years 116 00:04:21,330 --> 00:04:22,310 to also 117 00:04:23,250 --> 00:04:26,149 focus on payer provider exchange, 118 00:04:26,930 --> 00:04:27,430 and 119 00:04:28,285 --> 00:04:28,785 provider 120 00:04:29,245 --> 00:04:30,865 to public health exchange. 121 00:04:31,324 --> 00:04:34,064 So, we're really excited about reducing 122 00:04:34,764 --> 00:04:37,105 the burden that both payers 123 00:04:37,725 --> 00:04:39,345 and providers have 124 00:04:39,645 --> 00:04:40,464 when exchanging 125 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:42,899 patients' electronic 126 00:04:43,199 --> 00:04:44,100 medical records. 127 00:04:45,439 --> 00:04:47,120 I appreciate you shedding a light on all 128 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,120 that wonderful work there, Jay. A lot of 129 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,279 progress has been made, and certainly a lot 130 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,439 of growth there. Next question I want to 131 00:04:53,439 --> 00:04:55,185 ask you, where do you see the biggest 132 00:04:55,345 --> 00:04:58,165 gap today between payer strategy and 133 00:04:58,544 --> 00:05:01,745 operational execution? I think it's, you know, in 134 00:05:01,745 --> 00:05:04,464 my mind, it's really in the it's really 135 00:05:04,464 --> 00:05:05,204 in the, 136 00:05:06,305 --> 00:05:07,365 lack of understanding 137 00:05:07,665 --> 00:05:09,044 of of how inefficient 138 00:05:09,850 --> 00:05:11,709 the current processes are. 139 00:05:12,250 --> 00:05:14,430 So, you know, when I speak with providers, 140 00:05:14,569 --> 00:05:16,509 you know, from large sophisticated 141 00:05:17,050 --> 00:05:17,870 health systems, 142 00:05:18,410 --> 00:05:20,250 you know, they often tell me, oh, you 143 00:05:20,250 --> 00:05:23,389 know, we don't share patient records with payers. 144 00:05:24,134 --> 00:05:26,935 And just as nicely and tactfully as I 145 00:05:26,935 --> 00:05:28,154 can, I say, 146 00:05:28,615 --> 00:05:30,295 well, of course you do? You know, you've 147 00:05:30,295 --> 00:05:33,115 been doing this for thirty, forty years. 148 00:05:34,055 --> 00:05:36,875 It's just been a behind the scenes operation 149 00:05:37,629 --> 00:05:40,430 that number one is required in your payer 150 00:05:40,430 --> 00:05:40,930 provider 151 00:05:41,629 --> 00:05:42,129 contract, 152 00:05:42,670 --> 00:05:45,230 but it might be also happening in an 153 00:05:45,230 --> 00:05:45,730 unscalable, 154 00:05:47,470 --> 00:05:47,970 unscalable 155 00:05:48,350 --> 00:05:48,850 fashion. 156 00:05:49,230 --> 00:05:50,689 So, it might be happening 157 00:05:51,395 --> 00:05:51,895 via, 158 00:05:52,435 --> 00:05:54,134 and sorry for the non techies, 159 00:05:54,514 --> 00:05:57,654 it might be using an old school HL7 160 00:05:58,275 --> 00:05:59,574 version two interface, 161 00:06:00,514 --> 00:06:02,615 or it might be someone swapping 162 00:06:03,669 --> 00:06:04,729 Excel CSV 163 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:05,610 files, 164 00:06:05,990 --> 00:06:08,709 or it might even be the dreaded fax 165 00:06:08,709 --> 00:06:09,209 machine. 166 00:06:09,669 --> 00:06:13,370 But regardless, that data is being exchanged today, 167 00:06:13,829 --> 00:06:14,569 but it's 168 00:06:15,110 --> 00:06:15,610 expensive 169 00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:16,729 and clumsy, 170 00:06:17,514 --> 00:06:20,154 and, and so that's what eHealth Exchange is 171 00:06:20,154 --> 00:06:21,055 trying to 172 00:06:21,595 --> 00:06:22,095 tackle. 173 00:06:22,955 --> 00:06:23,835 We're trying to, 174 00:06:24,634 --> 00:06:25,855 number one, demystify 175 00:06:26,475 --> 00:06:27,214 the process, 176 00:06:28,875 --> 00:06:30,654 use national standards, 177 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:33,149 and apply modern technology 178 00:06:34,089 --> 00:06:37,209 so that it's easier and less expensive to 179 00:06:37,209 --> 00:06:37,709 exchange 180 00:06:38,250 --> 00:06:39,310 the medical records. 181 00:06:40,490 --> 00:06:41,850 Are you surprised that there has to be 182 00:06:41,850 --> 00:06:44,269 efforts to kinda get people to adapt to 183 00:06:44,649 --> 00:06:46,785 pretty basic modern tech at this point? 184 00:06:47,504 --> 00:06:48,004 Yeah. 185 00:06:48,625 --> 00:06:49,665 You know, it's, 186 00:06:49,985 --> 00:06:51,925 yeah, it's it's really surprising, 187 00:06:52,305 --> 00:06:55,584 you know, that, that fax machines are are 188 00:06:55,584 --> 00:06:58,485 not only alive and well, but they're used 189 00:06:59,105 --> 00:07:01,740 at such tremendous volume currently. 190 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,120 And so, you know, when we speak to 191 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,840 payers and providers about this and we explain 192 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:07,660 the possibilities, 193 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,980 they really do get excited. 194 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,199 In terms of possibilities, what's one investment or 195 00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:16,814 initiative you believe will most reshape how health 196 00:07:16,814 --> 00:07:18,974 plans operate over the next two to three 197 00:07:18,974 --> 00:07:19,474 years? 198 00:07:20,334 --> 00:07:21,555 Yeah. Great question. 199 00:07:21,935 --> 00:07:24,495 So, you know, so we we use the 200 00:07:24,495 --> 00:07:27,474 national standards, which have been, you know, government 201 00:07:27,615 --> 00:07:29,875 endorsed, and it's called HL seven. 202 00:07:30,569 --> 00:07:31,470 And we're using, 203 00:07:32,490 --> 00:07:32,990 modern 204 00:07:33,689 --> 00:07:35,389 APIs. So think about 205 00:07:35,769 --> 00:07:38,189 think about the the the programming 206 00:07:38,569 --> 00:07:41,550 framework, you know, used in your mobile phones, 207 00:07:42,009 --> 00:07:43,629 you know, for social media, 208 00:07:44,194 --> 00:07:45,654 to deal with your bank, 209 00:07:46,595 --> 00:07:48,294 to order coffee at Starbucks, 210 00:07:48,595 --> 00:07:49,095 whatever. 211 00:07:49,714 --> 00:07:52,435 And so, you know, we're leveraging that same 212 00:07:52,435 --> 00:07:52,935 technology. 213 00:07:53,875 --> 00:07:56,055 We're actually using the healthcare 214 00:07:57,639 --> 00:07:58,220 FHIR, FHIR, 215 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:00,860 technical specifications, 216 00:08:02,599 --> 00:08:03,099 to 217 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:04,060 facilitate 218 00:08:04,439 --> 00:08:05,979 the movement of electronic 219 00:08:06,279 --> 00:08:07,259 medical records. 220 00:08:08,199 --> 00:08:10,519 And of course, we're not using mobile phones 221 00:08:10,519 --> 00:08:11,500 to do this, 222 00:08:11,995 --> 00:08:13,214 but we're installing 223 00:08:13,514 --> 00:08:14,654 these apps, 224 00:08:16,634 --> 00:08:18,495 on health plan and providers' 225 00:08:19,115 --> 00:08:19,615 large 226 00:08:19,995 --> 00:08:20,495 institutional 227 00:08:21,035 --> 00:08:22,175 computer servers, 228 00:08:23,115 --> 00:08:24,814 to facilitate the exchange 229 00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:26,310 in a scalable, 230 00:08:26,930 --> 00:08:27,430 standardized, 231 00:08:28,370 --> 00:08:28,870 trusted 232 00:08:29,330 --> 00:08:29,830 fashion. 233 00:08:31,090 --> 00:08:32,370 Yeah. You know, I I know we just 234 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:34,549 kinda touched on being surprised that 235 00:08:34,850 --> 00:08:37,570 people are are still using, you know, fax 236 00:08:37,570 --> 00:08:39,735 machines for a lot of these records. But 237 00:08:39,815 --> 00:08:42,054 I've also heard, you know, particularly at our 238 00:08:42,054 --> 00:08:42,554 conferences 239 00:08:43,095 --> 00:08:45,575 from payer leaders that they're surprised how many 240 00:08:45,575 --> 00:08:46,075 seniors 241 00:08:46,695 --> 00:08:49,735 are utilizing these apps correctly and efficiently. Have 242 00:08:49,735 --> 00:08:50,554 you seen that? 243 00:08:51,414 --> 00:08:53,070 I you know, I I haven't seen it 244 00:08:53,389 --> 00:08:56,529 personally, but, but it's something that eHealth Exchange, 245 00:08:57,549 --> 00:08:58,049 definitely 246 00:08:58,429 --> 00:08:58,929 supports. 247 00:08:59,470 --> 00:09:01,230 You know, I think I think I I 248 00:09:01,230 --> 00:09:03,470 really haven't seen it just because our scale 249 00:09:03,470 --> 00:09:05,870 is so big. Again, 25,000,000,000 250 00:09:05,870 --> 00:09:06,370 records 251 00:09:07,034 --> 00:09:07,534 annually. 252 00:09:08,154 --> 00:09:08,554 And, 253 00:09:09,595 --> 00:09:12,495 the number, the percentage of that that's facilitated 254 00:09:13,434 --> 00:09:14,414 by individuals 255 00:09:15,034 --> 00:09:16,095 is still relatively 256 00:09:16,554 --> 00:09:17,054 small. 257 00:09:17,595 --> 00:09:19,615 But, you know, to your point, 258 00:09:21,340 --> 00:09:23,200 as consumers and individuals, 259 00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:26,000 become more and more tech savvy, 260 00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:27,200 and unfortunately, 261 00:09:28,059 --> 00:09:30,240 as healthcare costs increase, 262 00:09:31,340 --> 00:09:34,720 and and as patients become more vested 263 00:09:35,245 --> 00:09:35,985 in their 264 00:09:36,845 --> 00:09:38,705 clinical healthcare outcomes, 265 00:09:39,325 --> 00:09:41,024 yeah, I see them absolutely 266 00:09:41,884 --> 00:09:42,384 using 267 00:09:42,845 --> 00:09:43,345 technology, 268 00:09:44,884 --> 00:09:45,384 to, 269 00:09:45,965 --> 00:09:47,825 for electronic medical records. 270 00:09:48,365 --> 00:09:50,059 I, you know, personally 271 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:51,500 use it myself. 272 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,840 And, it's really helpful because, you know, like 273 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,639 most people, I see more than one health 274 00:09:57,639 --> 00:09:58,460 care provider 275 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,620 in more than one setting, 276 00:10:01,334 --> 00:10:02,934 and I like to have all of my 277 00:10:02,934 --> 00:10:03,914 data consolidated, 278 00:10:05,095 --> 00:10:07,194 in one place that I can access 279 00:10:07,735 --> 00:10:09,894 via my phone or via my, 280 00:10:11,574 --> 00:10:12,394 my laptop. 281 00:10:13,334 --> 00:10:13,834 Absolutely. 282 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:17,300 If you could change one regulatory or industry 283 00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:18,440 practice tomorrow 284 00:10:18,899 --> 00:10:21,379 to improve affordability and access, what would it 285 00:10:21,379 --> 00:10:22,279 be and why? 286 00:10:23,059 --> 00:10:25,300 You know, there's something in HIPAA called the 287 00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:25,800 minimum 288 00:10:26,180 --> 00:10:27,399 necessary rule. 289 00:10:27,779 --> 00:10:29,860 And, you know, this was written back, you 290 00:10:29,860 --> 00:10:32,014 know, in the previous century, 291 00:10:33,115 --> 00:10:36,335 before before computer systems and the Internet 292 00:10:37,034 --> 00:10:38,894 were really deployed widespread. 293 00:10:39,914 --> 00:10:42,654 And so what this rule is is currently 294 00:10:43,169 --> 00:10:44,470 interpreted to say 295 00:10:45,089 --> 00:10:45,909 is that, 296 00:10:47,009 --> 00:10:47,649 is that, 297 00:10:48,289 --> 00:10:52,389 HIPAA covered entities, so including payers and providers, 298 00:10:53,089 --> 00:10:54,470 can only exchange 299 00:10:55,089 --> 00:10:55,990 the minimum 300 00:10:56,529 --> 00:10:57,029 necessary 301 00:10:58,214 --> 00:10:58,954 for quality 302 00:10:59,654 --> 00:11:00,154 purposes. 303 00:11:00,934 --> 00:11:03,495 And so the million dollar question is, what's 304 00:11:03,495 --> 00:11:05,034 the minimum necessary? 305 00:11:06,054 --> 00:11:07,995 And, you know, computer systems, 306 00:11:08,694 --> 00:11:10,454 be it at two in the morning or 307 00:11:10,454 --> 00:11:11,595 two in the afternoon, 308 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,539 have a hard time interpreting that. 309 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,139 So I'd love, 310 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:18,220 the policy side, 311 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,139 to have the government 312 00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:21,259 publish 313 00:11:21,799 --> 00:11:22,700 an interpretation 314 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,899 of what is the HIPAA minimum necessary. 315 00:11:26,764 --> 00:11:28,304 Yeah. I think that'd be fantastic. 316 00:11:29,164 --> 00:11:30,845 I I certainly think you'll have some support 317 00:11:30,845 --> 00:11:32,684 there. Yeah. The last the last thing I 318 00:11:32,684 --> 00:11:33,825 want to ask you, Jay, 319 00:11:34,205 --> 00:11:36,845 what issue is putting the most pressure on 320 00:11:36,845 --> 00:11:38,705 health plan margins right now, 321 00:11:39,085 --> 00:11:41,164 and how will you respond differently in in 322 00:11:41,164 --> 00:11:42,225 2026? 323 00:11:43,029 --> 00:11:45,350 Yeah. So the biggest pressure for health plan 324 00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:47,269 margins right now I I mean, it's gotta 325 00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:47,769 be, 326 00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:49,429 you know, of course, there's, 327 00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:52,169 of course, there's the medical loss ratio, 328 00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:54,009 but the administrative 329 00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:57,190 costs are really getting a focus in the 330 00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:57,509 in, 331 00:11:58,865 --> 00:11:59,845 in the media, 332 00:12:00,625 --> 00:12:02,164 as well as from investors. 333 00:12:02,945 --> 00:12:06,565 And, and so we're really excited to help 334 00:12:06,865 --> 00:12:08,085 reduce the administrative 335 00:12:08,865 --> 00:12:09,365 cost, 336 00:12:10,225 --> 00:12:12,325 via electronic medical exchange. 337 00:12:13,589 --> 00:12:15,269 Jay, thanks so much for joining the podcast 338 00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:16,870 and for a great conversation. Look forward to 339 00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:19,110 working with you again soon. Alright. Thank you, 340 00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:19,610 Scott.