1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,240 Hi, everyone. This is Lucas Voss with Becker's 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,319 Healthcare. Thanks so much for tuning in to 3 00:00:04,319 --> 00:00:07,359 the Becker's Healthcare podcast series. It's fantastic to 4 00:00:07,359 --> 00:00:10,559 have you. An exciting topic today, very wide 5 00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:13,744 ranging, the challenges of costs in the payer 6 00:00:13,744 --> 00:00:15,664 market, and nobody better to talk about it. 7 00:00:15,664 --> 00:00:17,585 So excited to have him on for today's 8 00:00:17,585 --> 00:00:20,964 discussion. Kevin Adams. He's the CEO of HealthEdge. 9 00:00:21,024 --> 00:00:22,385 Kevin, so great to have you. Thanks for 10 00:00:22,385 --> 00:00:24,464 being here. Pleasure to be here. Looking forward 11 00:00:24,464 --> 00:00:25,204 to the conversation. 12 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,359 Absolutely. I do wanna start off for our 13 00:00:27,359 --> 00:00:28,800 audience with just a little bit of an 14 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:29,300 introduction. 15 00:00:30,079 --> 00:00:31,359 If you could just talk a little bit 16 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:33,679 about yourself too and but also about HealthEdge 17 00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:35,200 and and what you do on a regular 18 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:36,500 basis in health care. 19 00:00:37,359 --> 00:00:37,859 Absolutely. 20 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,700 So Kevin Adams, 21 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,734 I'm relatively new to the role of CEO 22 00:00:42,734 --> 00:00:43,715 of of HealthEdge. 23 00:00:44,414 --> 00:00:47,554 It's been about sixty days since, Bain Capital 24 00:00:47,695 --> 00:00:48,195 acquired, 25 00:00:48,734 --> 00:00:50,995 the prior company that I I founded, 26 00:00:51,935 --> 00:00:53,795 and combined us with HealthEdge. 27 00:00:54,189 --> 00:00:57,649 I've been, in the health insurance space specifically 28 00:00:57,949 --> 00:00:59,710 as exciting as it is for the last, 29 00:01:00,350 --> 00:01:02,769 twenty six or twenty seven years, 30 00:01:03,149 --> 00:01:04,430 came out of Wall Street, 31 00:01:04,829 --> 00:01:07,170 into what I thought was a 32 00:01:07,894 --> 00:01:09,034 area of 33 00:01:09,334 --> 00:01:09,894 of need 34 00:01:10,295 --> 00:01:12,155 Mhmm. And have spent the last 35 00:01:12,454 --> 00:01:14,534 twenty seven years trying to help, 36 00:01:15,254 --> 00:01:17,814 Americans across the country gain better access to 37 00:01:17,814 --> 00:01:18,635 health insurance. 38 00:01:19,334 --> 00:01:20,795 The last ten years, 39 00:01:21,469 --> 00:01:22,370 we we, 40 00:01:22,909 --> 00:01:25,810 ran a company called USD health proof. 41 00:01:26,189 --> 00:01:30,290 That company was focused on outcome based services 42 00:01:30,510 --> 00:01:31,409 and technology 43 00:01:31,710 --> 00:01:33,170 for health insurance company 44 00:01:33,644 --> 00:01:36,625 companies where we were running the back office 45 00:01:36,765 --> 00:01:37,265 and, 46 00:01:37,724 --> 00:01:38,224 deploying 47 00:01:38,604 --> 00:01:42,944 next generation technologies to support modern day products, 48 00:01:43,084 --> 00:01:44,064 networks, benefits 49 00:01:44,685 --> 00:01:46,224 in those health insurance companies 50 00:01:46,525 --> 00:01:47,165 had about, 51 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:49,700 25 52 00:01:50,079 --> 00:01:53,619 customers where we were running our BPAD solution. 53 00:01:54,319 --> 00:01:56,319 And, I'm sure we'll, we'll talk more about 54 00:01:56,319 --> 00:01:58,819 that later, what that is. And 55 00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:01,060 one of the key partners 56 00:02:01,359 --> 00:02:03,334 in our efforts over the last ten years 57 00:02:03,334 --> 00:02:04,715 was a company called HealthEdge. 58 00:02:05,174 --> 00:02:07,114 And so HealthEdge provided, 59 00:02:07,894 --> 00:02:09,034 much of the 60 00:02:09,655 --> 00:02:10,155 software 61 00:02:10,455 --> 00:02:12,794 that we were leveraging for our solutions. 62 00:02:13,574 --> 00:02:14,074 And, 63 00:02:15,094 --> 00:02:18,159 we became, obviously, a critical partner to HealthEdge 64 00:02:18,299 --> 00:02:20,000 for deploying their software 65 00:02:20,459 --> 00:02:20,959 and, 66 00:02:21,819 --> 00:02:23,659 just so happened to have been their largest 67 00:02:23,659 --> 00:02:24,159 customer. 68 00:02:24,699 --> 00:02:25,519 And so, 69 00:02:26,060 --> 00:02:26,560 in 70 00:02:27,259 --> 00:02:29,199 in early twenty twenty five, 71 00:02:30,060 --> 00:02:32,905 we went to market along with health edge. 72 00:02:33,525 --> 00:02:35,444 I'd like to say that was well planned, 73 00:02:35,444 --> 00:02:38,724 but luck sometimes is is a great benefit 74 00:02:38,724 --> 00:02:39,224 also. 75 00:02:39,764 --> 00:02:40,245 And, 76 00:02:40,724 --> 00:02:43,044 so health edge and health proof went to 77 00:02:43,044 --> 00:02:45,385 market in early twenty twenty five, 78 00:02:46,019 --> 00:02:46,519 and, 79 00:02:47,459 --> 00:02:50,579 we were able to work with a number 80 00:02:50,579 --> 00:02:52,900 of private equity firms. But at the end 81 00:02:52,900 --> 00:02:55,539 of the day, Bain Capital was not not 82 00:02:55,539 --> 00:02:56,039 just 83 00:02:56,340 --> 00:02:57,079 the best 84 00:02:57,539 --> 00:02:58,039 solution 85 00:02:58,340 --> 00:03:01,375 for from a standpoint of having understanding and 86 00:03:01,375 --> 00:03:02,995 direction and desire, 87 00:03:03,534 --> 00:03:03,854 but, 88 00:03:04,334 --> 00:03:06,834 also happened to have been the the best 89 00:03:07,055 --> 00:03:09,375 price for both health edge and health proof. 90 00:03:09,375 --> 00:03:10,834 And so at the end of the day, 91 00:03:11,294 --> 00:03:12,995 they won the the process. 92 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:15,939 And for both Healthproof and HealthEdge and and 93 00:03:15,939 --> 00:03:16,439 effective, 94 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:19,080 September 6, 95 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:20,439 put the two organizations 96 00:03:20,819 --> 00:03:21,939 together, and, 97 00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:23,159 I was either 98 00:03:23,539 --> 00:03:25,574 blessed or cursed to become the CEO of 99 00:03:25,655 --> 00:03:28,055 combined company. So I'm sure it's it's blessed 100 00:03:28,055 --> 00:03:31,014 in this case. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's a 101 00:03:31,014 --> 00:03:32,474 awesome awesome honor, 102 00:03:33,414 --> 00:03:36,534 and and we have some absolutely amazing owners 103 00:03:36,534 --> 00:03:37,435 in Bain Capital. 104 00:03:38,049 --> 00:03:40,769 And, we are truly looking forward to the 105 00:03:40,769 --> 00:03:42,610 future that we can we can bring to 106 00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:44,229 The US health insurance market. 107 00:03:44,769 --> 00:03:45,590 I do wanna 108 00:03:45,889 --> 00:03:47,489 level set us a little bit in terms 109 00:03:47,489 --> 00:03:49,090 of where we're at today from a market 110 00:03:49,090 --> 00:03:51,750 perspective, but also in general from your perspective 111 00:03:51,889 --> 00:03:52,629 at HealthEdge. 112 00:03:53,275 --> 00:03:56,495 What are some of those biggest market operational 113 00:03:56,635 --> 00:03:58,335 and and tech certainly technological 114 00:03:58,635 --> 00:03:59,775 challenges that 115 00:04:00,555 --> 00:04:02,895 US health plans are facing today? 116 00:04:03,995 --> 00:04:06,895 Wow. I'd say, a wide range of challenges. 117 00:04:07,550 --> 00:04:09,650 And I would say number one, 118 00:04:10,349 --> 00:04:11,489 you know, nontechnical, 119 00:04:12,030 --> 00:04:13,889 just the reality of health insurance, 120 00:04:14,590 --> 00:04:17,810 is that you are cost wise impacted 121 00:04:18,269 --> 00:04:20,794 on many, many different fronts. I think you 122 00:04:20,794 --> 00:04:22,894 see every day, MLR utilization 123 00:04:23,595 --> 00:04:25,514 is through the roof for for The US 124 00:04:25,514 --> 00:04:26,014 population, 125 00:04:26,555 --> 00:04:28,095 whether that is a, 126 00:04:28,875 --> 00:04:29,375 effect 127 00:04:29,995 --> 00:04:32,495 from COVID or not, meaning, 128 00:04:33,115 --> 00:04:35,220 the results of people not going to the 129 00:04:35,220 --> 00:04:37,480 doctor for a long time are now manifesting 130 00:04:37,540 --> 00:04:40,100 itself in terms of higher rates of disease 131 00:04:40,100 --> 00:04:41,480 or higher rates of utilization. 132 00:04:42,339 --> 00:04:42,839 And, 133 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:46,740 that is having an outsized impact on on 134 00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:48,759 health insurance companies bottom lines. 135 00:04:50,165 --> 00:04:53,045 Not a lot you can do whether it 136 00:04:53,045 --> 00:04:53,865 be technology 137 00:04:54,485 --> 00:04:55,545 or otherwise. 138 00:04:55,925 --> 00:04:57,225 That's just a reality. 139 00:04:58,324 --> 00:05:00,165 The second thing in the l m l 140 00:05:00,165 --> 00:05:02,665 r portion of the the cost 141 00:05:03,230 --> 00:05:03,730 is 142 00:05:04,269 --> 00:05:04,850 that providers, 143 00:05:05,389 --> 00:05:05,889 oddly, 144 00:05:06,430 --> 00:05:07,649 because their systems 145 00:05:08,110 --> 00:05:08,610 are 146 00:05:08,990 --> 00:05:10,930 somewhat easier to 147 00:05:11,230 --> 00:05:13,250 to manipulate and use, 148 00:05:14,189 --> 00:05:16,129 are able to leverage AI 149 00:05:16,504 --> 00:05:18,824 slightly better. Actually, I would say measurably better 150 00:05:18,824 --> 00:05:20,425 than the health plans have been able to 151 00:05:20,425 --> 00:05:21,324 leverage AI 152 00:05:21,784 --> 00:05:22,604 and are 153 00:05:23,704 --> 00:05:25,245 increasing the accuracy of coding 154 00:05:26,185 --> 00:05:29,064 through the leverage of AI. And that increase 155 00:05:29,064 --> 00:05:32,044 in coding is causing a higher 156 00:05:32,459 --> 00:05:34,779 medical cost also for health plans. It's about 157 00:05:34,779 --> 00:05:37,660 a you know, I've heard numbers vary from 158 00:05:37,660 --> 00:05:40,220 20 to 30% of the increase in MLR 159 00:05:40,220 --> 00:05:42,079 is coming from coding accuracy. 160 00:05:42,620 --> 00:05:43,600 A lot of people 161 00:05:43,980 --> 00:05:44,879 tend to say 162 00:05:45,634 --> 00:05:46,134 upcoding, 163 00:05:46,915 --> 00:05:49,555 but I I think that's a it usually 164 00:05:49,555 --> 00:05:52,995 held as a negative statement, meaning upcoding is 165 00:05:52,995 --> 00:05:53,814 trying to, 166 00:05:54,595 --> 00:05:55,095 maliciously 167 00:05:55,475 --> 00:05:58,274 add code that shouldn't be there. This is 168 00:05:58,274 --> 00:05:59,654 just accurate coding. 169 00:06:00,169 --> 00:06:03,129 And so where the providers were losing revenue 170 00:06:03,129 --> 00:06:05,850 because they were unable to accurately code their 171 00:06:05,850 --> 00:06:06,350 claims, 172 00:06:06,970 --> 00:06:09,209 now they're able to increase the accuracy through 173 00:06:09,209 --> 00:06:12,250 AI, and that's driving 20 to 30% increase 174 00:06:12,250 --> 00:06:14,435 in MLR costs. So you put those two 175 00:06:14,435 --> 00:06:15,814 things together, MLR 176 00:06:16,435 --> 00:06:19,735 is a huge impact to to health plans. 177 00:06:20,035 --> 00:06:22,034 And the reason I say that is because 178 00:06:22,034 --> 00:06:25,495 the MLR portion is a very, very difficult 179 00:06:25,555 --> 00:06:27,810 thing to impact in the short term. 180 00:06:28,370 --> 00:06:30,370 And so when you're looking at the health 181 00:06:30,370 --> 00:06:33,329 plan, looking for ways to lower your annual 182 00:06:33,329 --> 00:06:35,589 or year to year cost, the administrative 183 00:06:35,970 --> 00:06:38,529 side of your system is about the only 184 00:06:38,529 --> 00:06:40,930 thing where you have immediate or very near 185 00:06:40,930 --> 00:06:43,029 term opportunity to reduce cost. 186 00:06:43,404 --> 00:06:46,044 And the administrative side is where everything around 187 00:06:46,044 --> 00:06:50,144 claims processing, provider data management, enrollment, claims intake, 188 00:06:50,204 --> 00:06:51,665 all those things, provider payments, 189 00:06:52,285 --> 00:06:54,845 all those things are where you need to 190 00:06:54,845 --> 00:06:56,384 find a way to maximize 191 00:06:57,004 --> 00:06:57,745 your efficiency 192 00:06:58,125 --> 00:06:58,865 and effectiveness 193 00:06:59,350 --> 00:07:02,330 because that's an immediate opportunity to reduce cost. 194 00:07:02,870 --> 00:07:04,709 And so that's kind of laying out the 195 00:07:04,709 --> 00:07:05,209 groundwork 196 00:07:05,589 --> 00:07:08,310 of of where the health plans are today 197 00:07:08,310 --> 00:07:09,050 and why, 198 00:07:09,350 --> 00:07:11,850 this business happens to be something of interest. 199 00:07:12,104 --> 00:07:14,285 And then I'll kinda step back as to 200 00:07:14,425 --> 00:07:15,805 why the administrative 201 00:07:16,185 --> 00:07:19,404 side of health plans are inefficient and ineffective 202 00:07:19,625 --> 00:07:22,664 and ripe for for opportunity to help them 203 00:07:22,664 --> 00:07:23,644 reduce costs. 204 00:07:24,629 --> 00:07:27,030 And so, you know, if you look back 205 00:07:27,030 --> 00:07:28,389 over the last, you know, I'll tell you 206 00:07:28,389 --> 00:07:30,150 tell you, out of my career, the last 207 00:07:30,150 --> 00:07:31,050 thirty years, 208 00:07:31,590 --> 00:07:34,150 you know, it was really about thirty years 209 00:07:34,150 --> 00:07:36,090 ago when the technology 210 00:07:37,270 --> 00:07:38,490 used to automate 211 00:07:39,134 --> 00:07:40,514 manual claims processing 212 00:07:41,535 --> 00:07:43,314 began to come to the forefront. 213 00:07:43,855 --> 00:07:45,855 And I'm not saying it didn't exist before, 214 00:07:45,855 --> 00:07:48,115 but it was really starting to become, 215 00:07:48,495 --> 00:07:49,794 you know, computerized. 216 00:07:50,654 --> 00:07:51,794 I'll use that term, 217 00:07:52,259 --> 00:07:52,759 computerized 218 00:07:53,060 --> 00:07:54,680 in around 2000. 219 00:07:55,539 --> 00:07:57,539 And a lot of those systems that were 220 00:07:57,539 --> 00:07:58,919 implemented were predominantly 221 00:07:59,220 --> 00:08:00,519 mainframe based systems, 222 00:08:01,139 --> 00:08:02,279 large mainframes, 223 00:08:02,979 --> 00:08:04,899 or in in the case of the regional 224 00:08:04,899 --> 00:08:06,915 plans, they might have been on mid tier, 225 00:08:06,915 --> 00:08:08,514 you know, a s four hundreds and that 226 00:08:08,514 --> 00:08:11,495 kind of stuff. Still mainframe centric, COBOL based, 227 00:08:12,115 --> 00:08:14,514 and monolithic in nature. And what I mean 228 00:08:14,514 --> 00:08:17,314 by monolithic in nature is that everything around 229 00:08:17,314 --> 00:08:19,574 the back office of process health insurance 230 00:08:19,919 --> 00:08:21,699 was on a single piece of 231 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,199 of software. The Yeah. The in quote claim 232 00:08:25,199 --> 00:08:27,039 engine was So think about that for a 233 00:08:27,039 --> 00:08:28,479 second. I think that that's a very, very 234 00:08:28,479 --> 00:08:30,800 important piece to think about. Right? One single 235 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,105 piece of software. And also the time frame 236 00:08:33,105 --> 00:08:34,945 that you've mentioned, this has been on go 237 00:08:35,024 --> 00:08:37,205 twenty five years. Correct. Correct. 238 00:08:37,825 --> 00:08:39,585 You know, sometimes I look at this and 239 00:08:39,585 --> 00:08:41,904 say, you know, I've had a great career 240 00:08:41,904 --> 00:08:43,424 and I've learned a lot, but clearly I'm 241 00:08:43,424 --> 00:08:45,625 a failure because it's taken twenty five years 242 00:08:45,625 --> 00:08:47,184 to get to the point where I think 243 00:08:47,184 --> 00:08:47,820 we could actually 244 00:08:48,379 --> 00:08:51,019 actually execute against the the the dream that 245 00:08:51,019 --> 00:08:51,840 we've always 246 00:08:52,220 --> 00:08:53,120 had. But, 247 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:56,379 anyways, that monolithic piece of software in many 248 00:08:56,379 --> 00:08:58,639 large health plans still exist today 249 00:09:00,139 --> 00:09:03,519 and, is a very costly, very complex 250 00:09:04,274 --> 00:09:04,774 capability 251 00:09:05,154 --> 00:09:06,054 to replace. 252 00:09:06,434 --> 00:09:08,754 And it's basically when you try to replace 253 00:09:08,754 --> 00:09:10,995 the claim engine in a health plan, you're 254 00:09:10,995 --> 00:09:13,654 doing open heart surgery on that health plan. 255 00:09:14,034 --> 00:09:16,115 Mhmm. And not only you're doing open heart 256 00:09:16,115 --> 00:09:18,355 surgery, but it's not like you can stop 257 00:09:18,355 --> 00:09:19,254 the blood flow. 258 00:09:19,790 --> 00:09:22,050 You have to actually keep the blood flowing 259 00:09:22,509 --> 00:09:24,769 while you're replacing this major organ. 260 00:09:25,389 --> 00:09:27,330 And, you know, any any, 261 00:09:28,269 --> 00:09:29,490 challenges, mistakes, 262 00:09:29,870 --> 00:09:30,850 or issues 263 00:09:31,230 --> 00:09:34,190 can result in the death of the health 264 00:09:34,190 --> 00:09:34,690 plan. 265 00:09:35,115 --> 00:09:38,075 Certainly, the end of a career for CEOs 266 00:09:38,075 --> 00:09:40,095 and CIOs and whatnot. So 267 00:09:40,394 --> 00:09:42,794 it's a very critical, very difficult thing to 268 00:09:42,794 --> 00:09:44,254 do and a lot of resistance, 269 00:09:45,034 --> 00:09:46,554 hence why there's still many, 270 00:09:47,049 --> 00:09:47,870 many opportunities out there, 271 00:09:48,730 --> 00:09:50,889 is that it's there's never been a company 272 00:09:50,889 --> 00:09:51,950 that could effectively, 273 00:09:53,450 --> 00:09:56,730 execute against a strategy to replace this and 274 00:09:56,730 --> 00:09:59,370 have a high degree of success in doing 275 00:09:59,370 --> 00:10:01,485 it measured over the last ten years. And 276 00:10:01,485 --> 00:10:03,884 that's what USA Health Proof was that we've 277 00:10:03,884 --> 00:10:05,105 been able to execute 278 00:10:05,485 --> 00:10:07,964 in in that time period 25 different health 279 00:10:07,964 --> 00:10:10,044 plans where we've been able to effectively move 280 00:10:10,044 --> 00:10:12,464 them from legacy to modern technology. 281 00:10:13,164 --> 00:10:15,620 So the the just kind of cycling back 282 00:10:15,620 --> 00:10:19,159 to the problem is that that monolithic technology 283 00:10:19,860 --> 00:10:20,839 could not sustain 284 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:23,720 the needed improvements in 285 00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:25,000 network flexibility 286 00:10:25,459 --> 00:10:26,279 or reimbursement 287 00:10:26,955 --> 00:10:28,415 changes, value based reimbursement, 288 00:10:29,035 --> 00:10:32,254 benefit you know, incentivized benefits or complicated benefits. 289 00:10:32,634 --> 00:10:34,254 And so people over time 290 00:10:34,555 --> 00:10:35,535 started to 291 00:10:36,394 --> 00:10:37,215 plug in, 292 00:10:38,394 --> 00:10:40,750 what they would call as modern technologies 293 00:10:41,209 --> 00:10:43,389 around this legacy footprint, 294 00:10:43,929 --> 00:10:47,149 and you ended up with the micro segmentation 295 00:10:47,449 --> 00:10:49,470 of the business processes across 296 00:10:49,929 --> 00:10:51,709 multiple different technologies 297 00:10:52,485 --> 00:10:56,004 that were all wired through bubblegum and bailing 298 00:10:56,004 --> 00:10:58,264 wire into this legacy platform. 299 00:10:59,205 --> 00:11:01,464 And it added to the complexity 300 00:11:02,085 --> 00:11:04,565 while giving a little bit of measurable benefit 301 00:11:04,565 --> 00:11:05,784 in terms of capability. 302 00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:08,339 At the end of the day, you ended 303 00:11:08,339 --> 00:11:10,740 up through the segmentation of the business process 304 00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:13,539 by having, you know, a specialist business unit 305 00:11:13,539 --> 00:11:16,659 that's running enrollment, a second business running, you 306 00:11:16,659 --> 00:11:19,000 know, pricing, a third one running, 307 00:11:20,345 --> 00:11:21,404 claims reimbursement. 308 00:11:22,105 --> 00:11:24,044 So all of this the segmentation 309 00:11:24,424 --> 00:11:26,205 caused complexity in the environment, 310 00:11:27,065 --> 00:11:27,565 and 311 00:11:27,945 --> 00:11:28,684 that complexity 312 00:11:29,304 --> 00:11:32,024 led to additional resources needed, which at the 313 00:11:32,024 --> 00:11:34,200 end of the day ran to higher cost 314 00:11:34,279 --> 00:11:35,899 to operate your back office. 315 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,080 And so naturally, the question is is how 316 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,019 do I get rid of this complexity? 317 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,660 And people still 318 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,419 think back to, 319 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,654 well, in the old days, I would buy 320 00:11:47,654 --> 00:11:50,475 a monolithic claim engine and boom, you know, 321 00:11:50,615 --> 00:11:52,934 I've solved all my problems. Well, that doesn't 322 00:11:52,934 --> 00:11:53,915 exist anymore. 323 00:11:54,375 --> 00:11:56,555 When you look at a claim engine today, 324 00:11:56,855 --> 00:11:58,875 a la HealthEdge, HealthRoots payer, 325 00:12:00,090 --> 00:12:01,850 and some you know, the equivalent is the 326 00:12:01,850 --> 00:12:04,169 same across all the competitors is that they 327 00:12:04,169 --> 00:12:05,070 are only 328 00:12:05,450 --> 00:12:06,669 a small portion 329 00:12:07,289 --> 00:12:08,429 of the overall 330 00:12:09,450 --> 00:12:12,570 technology set required to run the back office 331 00:12:12,570 --> 00:12:15,125 of a health plan, and it requires an 332 00:12:15,125 --> 00:12:15,625 ecosystem 333 00:12:16,084 --> 00:12:16,824 of technologies 334 00:12:17,684 --> 00:12:18,424 and services 335 00:12:18,964 --> 00:12:21,144 in order to do that replacement 336 00:12:21,524 --> 00:12:22,024 modernization 337 00:12:22,804 --> 00:12:24,644 of the back office of a health plan, 338 00:12:24,644 --> 00:12:27,605 which ultimately is what drives the substantial cost 339 00:12:27,605 --> 00:12:30,870 savings that health plans need. Yes. And you've 340 00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:32,949 you've mentioned the the the sort of the 341 00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:35,350 solution to this in terms of the the 342 00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:37,589 modernization part. And I I I'd love for 343 00:12:37,589 --> 00:12:39,269 you to you mentioned an acronym in the 344 00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:41,029 introduction too that I wanna get to because 345 00:12:41,029 --> 00:12:43,129 it's very important to understand the this modernization 346 00:12:43,429 --> 00:12:46,195 piece, which is business process as a service. 347 00:12:46,195 --> 00:12:49,235 Right? Yeah. Yeah. And also business process outsourcing. 348 00:12:49,235 --> 00:12:51,154 There's a key difference. There is. And I'm 349 00:12:51,154 --> 00:12:53,475 wondering if if you could get to where 350 00:12:53,475 --> 00:12:55,174 we are today in terms of modernizing. 351 00:12:55,634 --> 00:12:57,879 First of all, explaining what those two are, 352 00:12:57,879 --> 00:13:00,120 how they're different, but also how they're addressing 353 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,480 those challenges in turn. Yeah. Absolutely. So, you 354 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,600 know, I think the you know, 90 plus 355 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,860 percent of health insurance companies 356 00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:11,899 leverage business process outsourcing. 357 00:13:12,704 --> 00:13:15,264 And business process outsourcing, the way I would 358 00:13:15,264 --> 00:13:17,204 term it is mess for less. 359 00:13:17,745 --> 00:13:20,644 So you are taking the existing technology, 360 00:13:21,264 --> 00:13:22,725 the existing processes, 361 00:13:23,184 --> 00:13:25,444 and you're leveraging labor arbitrage 362 00:13:26,319 --> 00:13:29,279 to do that same work at a cheaper 363 00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:29,779 price. 364 00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:31,299 You cannot 365 00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:33,059 inherently reduce 366 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,459 the operational efficiencies 367 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:36,579 of 368 00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:38,879 what is going on because it's the same 369 00:13:38,879 --> 00:13:40,100 method you had before. 370 00:13:40,445 --> 00:13:42,205 The only thing you can do is reduce 371 00:13:42,205 --> 00:13:44,044 your arbitrage. You know, you can arbitrage your 372 00:13:44,044 --> 00:13:47,404 costs, I e, outsource to offshore because that's, 373 00:13:47,404 --> 00:13:48,065 you know, 374 00:13:48,445 --> 00:13:50,544 the only way you're going to achieve that. 375 00:13:50,684 --> 00:13:52,065 And so set aside, 376 00:13:52,820 --> 00:13:55,059 you know, some of that negative connotism. I 377 00:13:55,059 --> 00:13:56,500 mean, it it is what it is. That's 378 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:58,659 a reality across America. So I'm I'm not 379 00:13:58,659 --> 00:14:01,000 gonna, argue for or against it. 380 00:14:01,379 --> 00:14:02,759 But you can only get 381 00:14:03,139 --> 00:14:05,220 somewhere between 1015% 382 00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:05,720 savings. 383 00:14:06,384 --> 00:14:09,284 And because it's still ultimately mess for less, 384 00:14:09,504 --> 00:14:10,404 the outcomes 385 00:14:11,024 --> 00:14:12,404 that the vendor, 386 00:14:13,424 --> 00:14:14,804 is going to give you 387 00:14:15,264 --> 00:14:17,584 is never gonna be aligned with the outcomes 388 00:14:17,584 --> 00:14:19,684 that you need, which is long term 389 00:14:20,144 --> 00:14:22,084 continuous reduction in cost. 390 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:23,899 Because if the vendor 391 00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:27,720 is executing against that long term need, then 392 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,179 they're reducing their revenues. 393 00:14:29,639 --> 00:14:30,779 And no no 394 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,879 no vendor is interested in reducing their revenues. 395 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:36,600 They're always trying to increase the revenue or 396 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:37,875 or increase the profit. 397 00:14:38,434 --> 00:14:39,575 And and so, 398 00:14:39,955 --> 00:14:41,014 you know, BPO 399 00:14:41,394 --> 00:14:43,735 to me was never a long term solution. 400 00:14:44,355 --> 00:14:47,154 And so what we came up with was 401 00:14:47,154 --> 00:14:49,815 that you need to improve the underlying 402 00:14:50,355 --> 00:14:50,855 business 403 00:14:51,529 --> 00:14:52,029 technology 404 00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:53,950 and business processes 405 00:14:54,490 --> 00:14:55,950 that run on that technology 406 00:14:56,649 --> 00:14:59,230 because that's the only way you can drive 407 00:14:59,610 --> 00:15:01,149 ultimate real efficiency. 408 00:15:01,929 --> 00:15:04,250 And then you can leverage arbitrage on top 409 00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:06,934 of that to double down on the effectiveness 410 00:15:07,154 --> 00:15:08,774 of of this new technology. 411 00:15:09,235 --> 00:15:11,475 And Replacing the foundation sort of you're building 412 00:15:11,475 --> 00:15:13,154 a house. Right? You're you have to instead 413 00:15:13,154 --> 00:15:15,794 of fixing everything that's inside without fixing the 414 00:15:15,794 --> 00:15:18,054 foundation, you have to fix the foundation first. 415 00:15:18,115 --> 00:15:19,554 That's a that's a great way to look 416 00:15:19,554 --> 00:15:21,309 at it. A great way to look look 417 00:15:21,309 --> 00:15:23,409 at it. And and so when we, 418 00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:24,370 in 419 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:25,649 2016, 420 00:15:26,190 --> 00:15:28,209 started our business at at Healthproof, 421 00:15:28,909 --> 00:15:29,889 we understood 422 00:15:30,429 --> 00:15:31,809 that, number one, 423 00:15:32,190 --> 00:15:33,089 the challenges 424 00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:34,209 of replacing 425 00:15:35,245 --> 00:15:36,304 a core administrative 426 00:15:36,924 --> 00:15:38,704 back office were immense. 427 00:15:39,404 --> 00:15:41,564 And there had to be a way to 428 00:15:41,564 --> 00:15:44,524 simplify that. Otherwise, nothing we were gonna do 429 00:15:44,524 --> 00:15:47,485 was ever gonna be effective or as effective 430 00:15:47,485 --> 00:15:49,529 as it it should have been. And so 431 00:15:49,529 --> 00:15:51,470 we created a methodology 432 00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:53,629 and a solution 433 00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:56,669 that was an ecosystem of technologies 434 00:15:57,129 --> 00:15:58,429 prewired together 435 00:15:58,889 --> 00:16:00,350 so that when we deployed 436 00:16:00,730 --> 00:16:04,169 the solution, it wasn't let me deploy 15 437 00:16:04,169 --> 00:16:06,404 different pieces of a solution and figure out 438 00:16:06,404 --> 00:16:07,764 how to tie a to b to c 439 00:16:07,764 --> 00:16:08,424 to z 440 00:16:08,804 --> 00:16:11,524 on the fly. It was something prebuilt out 441 00:16:11,524 --> 00:16:13,365 of the box, health plan in a box, 442 00:16:13,365 --> 00:16:16,245 if you will. And, that was the number 443 00:16:16,245 --> 00:16:19,384 one thing that we we created. And 444 00:16:19,750 --> 00:16:22,490 the reason we created it was not because 445 00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:24,550 that helped us implement, because we wanted to 446 00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:27,110 be a systems integrator to implement it. What 447 00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:28,889 we realized that the true 448 00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:32,410 need of a health plan wasn't new technology. 449 00:16:33,384 --> 00:16:35,004 It was the guarantee 450 00:16:35,544 --> 00:16:38,824 of what the actual operating cost of their 451 00:16:38,824 --> 00:16:41,964 back office would be. Mhmm. Meaning, at a 452 00:16:42,264 --> 00:16:45,084 literally a per member per month cost 453 00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:47,559 that the health plan could take to the 454 00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:50,679 bank and know that in order to be 455 00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:53,720 at 10,000 members, a 100,000 members, or a 456 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:54,620 million members, 457 00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:56,860 my price point for operating 458 00:16:57,414 --> 00:17:00,455 process health insurance, claims, enrollment, provider, all that 459 00:17:00,455 --> 00:17:01,195 kind of stuff, 460 00:17:01,575 --> 00:17:03,735 was going to be at a very fixed 461 00:17:03,735 --> 00:17:04,875 price guaranteed 462 00:17:05,255 --> 00:17:07,174 from the day you sign on the dotted 463 00:17:07,174 --> 00:17:09,654 line. So that when you think about that, 464 00:17:09,654 --> 00:17:11,994 that is an actual business process 465 00:17:13,649 --> 00:17:14,149 outsourcing, 466 00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:17,329 not BPO. It's the actual process that you're 467 00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:17,829 outsourcing. 468 00:17:18,210 --> 00:17:20,369 And therefore, we said that that was a 469 00:17:20,369 --> 00:17:23,009 business process as a service as opposed to 470 00:17:23,009 --> 00:17:23,509 BPO. 471 00:17:24,049 --> 00:17:26,724 Mhmm. And so when when a customer comes 472 00:17:26,724 --> 00:17:28,964 to us and says, I need my operating 473 00:17:28,964 --> 00:17:30,664 cost to be $10 PMPM. 474 00:17:31,204 --> 00:17:33,684 10 all in whatever all in is, and 475 00:17:33,684 --> 00:17:35,944 that can vary from customer to customer. But 476 00:17:36,164 --> 00:17:38,325 and they say all in. That means I'm 477 00:17:38,325 --> 00:17:40,105 going to give you responsibility 478 00:17:40,565 --> 00:17:41,065 for 479 00:17:41,419 --> 00:17:42,319 all of the technology 480 00:17:42,619 --> 00:17:44,400 to execute that business process 481 00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:47,759 and all of the resources needed to triage 482 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:48,400 any 483 00:17:48,859 --> 00:17:51,419 fallout in that business process. And at the 484 00:17:51,419 --> 00:17:53,019 end of the day, that's gonna cost me 485 00:17:53,019 --> 00:17:54,960 $10 per member per member. 486 00:17:55,294 --> 00:17:58,994 And that is a true outcome of pricing 487 00:17:59,615 --> 00:18:02,595 that the health plan can then budget around 488 00:18:02,734 --> 00:18:04,654 for a end period of time. And our 489 00:18:04,654 --> 00:18:07,214 contracts are between five and ten years. So 490 00:18:07,214 --> 00:18:09,710 some some customers know for the next five 491 00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:11,230 years what their costs are gonna be. And, 492 00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:13,710 obviously, there's tearing. If they grow from from 493 00:18:13,710 --> 00:18:15,470 a 100,000 to 200,000, 494 00:18:15,470 --> 00:18:16,529 the the volume 495 00:18:17,069 --> 00:18:20,269 will lower the overall PMPM. But the the 496 00:18:20,269 --> 00:18:22,289 key part of it is that the CFOs 497 00:18:22,669 --> 00:18:24,214 can can understand 498 00:18:24,595 --> 00:18:25,734 exactly where, 499 00:18:26,434 --> 00:18:28,855 their costs are gonna be, and the COOs 500 00:18:29,714 --> 00:18:32,855 have an SLA, a long list of SLAs 501 00:18:33,075 --> 00:18:35,875 that define the performance and the quality of 502 00:18:35,875 --> 00:18:37,174 what they're going to receive 503 00:18:37,619 --> 00:18:39,000 for that business process. 504 00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:39,880 So 505 00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:41,619 it just to kind of sum it all 506 00:18:41,619 --> 00:18:43,160 up, you know, BPaaS 507 00:18:43,539 --> 00:18:44,920 is a combination 508 00:18:45,299 --> 00:18:48,119 of the software and services needed 509 00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:51,079 to run the actual business process 510 00:18:51,575 --> 00:18:54,555 at a defined outcome price that is guaranteed 511 00:18:54,775 --> 00:18:57,194 through the contract of of the deal. 512 00:18:57,974 --> 00:19:00,454 I'm not an architect, but building the foundation 513 00:19:00,454 --> 00:19:03,015 is arguably the most important thing for building 514 00:19:03,015 --> 00:19:03,509 a house. 515 00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:06,230 I would argue so much that I know. 516 00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:07,990 Oh, Kevin, I I wanna close this out, 517 00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:09,670 with a little bit of a future outlook, 518 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:11,509 and and you've touched on AI earlier in 519 00:19:11,509 --> 00:19:13,349 our conversation too, and it's certainly something that 520 00:19:13,349 --> 00:19:15,190 we're seeing in the space as well. And 521 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:16,869 we're now sort of in this process of 522 00:19:16,869 --> 00:19:18,255 transitioning. Right? We have 523 00:19:18,654 --> 00:19:20,894 generative AI gen AI, but now we're switching 524 00:19:20,894 --> 00:19:23,375 to this the the agentic AI piece that's 525 00:19:23,375 --> 00:19:25,775 really evolving, has evolved in 2025, and will 526 00:19:25,775 --> 00:19:27,634 certainly evolve in 2026. 527 00:19:28,095 --> 00:19:30,674 I'm wondering how you're seeing this affect 528 00:19:31,169 --> 00:19:34,129 core administrative functions in health care and also 529 00:19:34,129 --> 00:19:36,849 what it can mean for the future of 530 00:19:36,849 --> 00:19:37,669 payer operations. 531 00:19:38,129 --> 00:19:38,629 Yeah. 532 00:19:39,009 --> 00:19:40,849 So I I will be completely honest with 533 00:19:40,849 --> 00:19:43,190 you is that for the last 534 00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:45,990 10 now let's prior to 535 00:19:46,335 --> 00:19:48,274 I would say between 2016 536 00:19:48,414 --> 00:19:50,515 and twenty twenty two ish, 537 00:19:51,134 --> 00:19:52,755 I was an AI. 538 00:19:53,454 --> 00:19:55,855 I did not believe in it. Yeah. I 539 00:19:55,855 --> 00:19:57,774 didn't believe in it because there was no 540 00:19:57,774 --> 00:19:58,380 proof points. 541 00:19:59,339 --> 00:20:01,039 And I think the whole, 542 00:20:02,299 --> 00:20:02,799 OpenAI 543 00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:04,480 and and generative 544 00:20:05,339 --> 00:20:05,839 activities 545 00:20:06,460 --> 00:20:09,339 have opened up a whole new realm of 546 00:20:09,339 --> 00:20:09,839 capability. 547 00:20:10,779 --> 00:20:13,039 I will still say, as of today, 548 00:20:14,154 --> 00:20:15,615 2025, 549 00:20:16,234 --> 00:20:17,775 there is still limited 550 00:20:18,234 --> 00:20:21,115 value points that have been realized. I I 551 00:20:21,115 --> 00:20:23,035 can go into where we have seen the 552 00:20:23,035 --> 00:20:25,674 value in health plans. It's not so much 553 00:20:25,674 --> 00:20:27,295 agentic as it is ML, 554 00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:31,509 Yeah. But, there's definitely areas of of focus 555 00:20:31,509 --> 00:20:32,569 and and opportunity. 556 00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:34,970 But I what I will say is that 557 00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:36,809 the normal approach 558 00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:40,170 to agentic AI that I see most 559 00:20:40,664 --> 00:20:42,045 either service providers, 560 00:20:42,904 --> 00:20:46,025 meaning SIs or or or people who wanna 561 00:20:46,025 --> 00:20:46,845 implement it, 562 00:20:47,384 --> 00:20:50,205 are approaching it as is essentially a glorified 563 00:20:50,345 --> 00:20:51,404 version of RPA, 564 00:20:51,945 --> 00:20:53,404 robotic process automation. 565 00:20:54,179 --> 00:20:55,399 And you're using 566 00:20:55,859 --> 00:20:58,259 AI to help you with the gathering of 567 00:20:58,259 --> 00:21:00,740 data and interpretation of that data so that 568 00:21:00,740 --> 00:21:03,379 you can execute a defined process to move 569 00:21:03,379 --> 00:21:04,200 forward with. 570 00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:06,440 I I find that to be 571 00:21:07,115 --> 00:21:09,755 analogous to mess for less. You're you're you're 572 00:21:09,914 --> 00:21:11,914 you still have a mess underlying you, and 573 00:21:11,914 --> 00:21:13,515 what you're trying to do is put a 574 00:21:13,515 --> 00:21:16,174 fix on top. You know, from my perspective 575 00:21:16,555 --> 00:21:18,795 is that if you to put RPA on 576 00:21:18,795 --> 00:21:21,349 top of a mess, you're actually managing another 577 00:21:21,410 --> 00:21:23,670 layer of technology on the complicated 578 00:21:24,289 --> 00:21:25,750 technology that you have. 579 00:21:26,769 --> 00:21:27,750 You know, honestly, 580 00:21:28,049 --> 00:21:31,089 prior to the combination of of HealthEdge and 581 00:21:31,089 --> 00:21:31,750 and Healthproof, 582 00:21:32,369 --> 00:21:35,009 our only alternative really would have been to 583 00:21:35,009 --> 00:21:38,345 take that approach because there we didn't own 584 00:21:38,345 --> 00:21:39,644 the underlying software. 585 00:21:40,265 --> 00:21:42,605 As the owners now of the underlying 586 00:21:43,065 --> 00:21:45,384 software that runs the back office of health 587 00:21:45,384 --> 00:21:47,144 plans with the combination of health edge and 588 00:21:47,144 --> 00:21:47,640 health proof, 589 00:21:49,079 --> 00:21:51,720 you you have the ability to build a 590 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,940 Gentec within the core software itself 591 00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:57,019 and to be able to, 592 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:58,220 understand 593 00:21:58,519 --> 00:21:59,019 that, 594 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,140 as transactions are coming through the system, 595 00:22:02,755 --> 00:22:05,554 our people remember because we are administering the 596 00:22:05,554 --> 00:22:06,855 the health plans also. 597 00:22:07,315 --> 00:22:09,714 Our people are looking at that data and 598 00:22:09,714 --> 00:22:11,734 are able to interpret where 599 00:22:12,115 --> 00:22:14,434 there are inefficiencies, meaning I do the same 600 00:22:14,434 --> 00:22:15,794 thing every single day. I wake up in 601 00:22:15,794 --> 00:22:18,390 the morning, I hit next next, next, next. 602 00:22:18,529 --> 00:22:21,490 There's no real value in the human executing 603 00:22:21,490 --> 00:22:23,970 that function. It just is, you know, the 604 00:22:23,970 --> 00:22:26,130 human can correlate a to b to c 605 00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:27,730 and be able to hit to say whether 606 00:22:27,730 --> 00:22:30,630 it's right or wrong. Yeah. That knowledge now 607 00:22:30,769 --> 00:22:31,463 can be conveyed to our product organization who 608 00:22:31,463 --> 00:22:32,230 can then use other agentic 609 00:22:33,384 --> 00:22:34,045 product organization 610 00:22:34,825 --> 00:22:37,244 who can then use other agent capabilities 611 00:22:37,865 --> 00:22:39,964 to build it directly into the software 612 00:22:40,424 --> 00:22:43,065 such that the the next step in the 613 00:22:43,065 --> 00:22:44,444 evolution will be 614 00:22:44,744 --> 00:22:48,049 the answer is there, and the the agent 615 00:22:48,049 --> 00:22:49,990 is validating that answer 616 00:22:50,369 --> 00:22:51,970 for some period of time, let's say, a 617 00:22:51,970 --> 00:22:53,650 month or two months. And then at the 618 00:22:53,650 --> 00:22:55,809 end of that two months, it becomes an 619 00:22:55,809 --> 00:22:59,045 automated activity within the software itself because 620 00:22:59,505 --> 00:23:01,424 the the the enough proof points have been 621 00:23:01,424 --> 00:23:03,505 done to train the engine to understand that 622 00:23:03,505 --> 00:23:05,505 I no longer need to even present this 623 00:23:05,505 --> 00:23:06,644 as a as an option. 624 00:23:07,184 --> 00:23:07,924 And so, 625 00:23:08,305 --> 00:23:09,045 you know, to me, 626 00:23:09,825 --> 00:23:11,924 the best people to leverage 627 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,799 in the the notion that we're gonna move 628 00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:17,539 towards is human less claims processing. 629 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,960 Right? The idea that it will be the 630 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,440 exception to the rule for there to be 631 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,259 a human in the loop of claims processing, 632 00:23:26,785 --> 00:23:28,704 the only way we'll get there is through 633 00:23:28,704 --> 00:23:32,244 leveraging adjunctive capabilities to automate all the activities 634 00:23:32,384 --> 00:23:33,365 in health insurance. 635 00:23:34,065 --> 00:23:34,884 Health insurance 636 00:23:35,585 --> 00:23:36,085 problems 637 00:23:37,105 --> 00:23:39,765 inherently come from poor data. 638 00:23:40,529 --> 00:23:41,029 And, 639 00:23:41,490 --> 00:23:44,609 you know, health insurance is an incredibly dirty 640 00:23:44,609 --> 00:23:45,109 transaction. 641 00:23:45,730 --> 00:23:48,210 Dirty in that there's lots of errors, lots 642 00:23:48,210 --> 00:23:48,869 of nuances, 643 00:23:49,330 --> 00:23:50,549 and lots of alternatives 644 00:23:50,850 --> 00:23:53,244 to to how how data come, like, the 645 00:23:53,365 --> 00:23:55,525 an enrollment transaction is called an eight thirty 646 00:23:55,525 --> 00:23:58,005 four, and you'll always hear every health plan 647 00:23:58,005 --> 00:23:58,505 say, 648 00:23:58,884 --> 00:24:00,404 if you've seen 1834, 649 00:24:00,404 --> 00:24:02,565 you've seen one eight thirty four. Right? They're 650 00:24:02,565 --> 00:24:04,804 always going to be different and and done 651 00:24:04,804 --> 00:24:07,779 differently. And so you're gonna use AI over 652 00:24:07,779 --> 00:24:10,119 time to be able to normalize 653 00:24:11,059 --> 00:24:12,119 the transactions 654 00:24:12,819 --> 00:24:14,440 into an understandable 655 00:24:14,819 --> 00:24:17,000 transaction that can then be automated 656 00:24:17,380 --> 00:24:19,000 through through this solution. 657 00:24:19,694 --> 00:24:20,914 Yeah. Again, 658 00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:23,454 you come back to understanding people need to 659 00:24:23,454 --> 00:24:26,174 understand what it actually does. Is it actual 660 00:24:26,174 --> 00:24:28,654 AI? Is it automation? What does it do? 661 00:24:28,654 --> 00:24:30,575 Again, coming back to the foundational piece that 662 00:24:30,575 --> 00:24:32,589 we've touched on earlier. Earlier. Kevin, what a 663 00:24:32,589 --> 00:24:34,349 wonderful conversation. Thanks so much for being here 664 00:24:34,349 --> 00:24:35,630 and taking some time for us. This was 665 00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:36,130 great. 666 00:24:36,589 --> 00:24:39,069 It was my pleasure. And, Lucas, I hope 667 00:24:39,069 --> 00:24:41,169 to to talk again. I I have, 668 00:24:41,789 --> 00:24:44,049 as I said, twenty seven years of experience, 669 00:24:44,109 --> 00:24:47,224 and and, and and I'm still passionate about 670 00:24:47,224 --> 00:24:49,304 this business, and I really look forward to 671 00:24:49,304 --> 00:24:52,505 helping make America healthier again. So Yeah. It's 672 00:24:52,505 --> 00:24:54,345 so much to talk about. I I agree. 673 00:24:54,345 --> 00:24:56,764 So many different topics. We certainly want to 674 00:24:56,825 --> 00:24:59,224 thank our podcast sponsor Health Edge for this 675 00:24:59,224 --> 00:25:00,524 conversation. It was fantastic. 676 00:25:00,890 --> 00:25:02,330 And you can tune in to more podcasts 677 00:25:02,330 --> 00:25:04,890 from Becker's Healthcare visiting our podcast page at 678 00:25:04,890 --> 00:25:07,390 beckershospitalreview.com.