1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Hi, everyone. This is Erica Spicer Mason with 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,879 Becker's Healthcare. Thank you so much for tuning 3 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,219 into the Becker's Healthcare podcast series. 4 00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:09,439 So today we're going to talk about the 5 00:00:09,439 --> 00:00:11,919 future of integrated care and what leaders need 6 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:13,939 to do now to achieve this at scale. 7 00:00:14,324 --> 00:00:16,164 And joining me for this discussion today is 8 00:00:16,164 --> 00:00:19,225 Shana Hoffman, the president and CEO of Lucid. 9 00:00:19,684 --> 00:00:21,605 Shana, welcome. Thank you so much again for 10 00:00:21,605 --> 00:00:23,845 joining the podcast today. Thanks so much, Erica, 11 00:00:23,845 --> 00:00:24,904 for having me on. 12 00:00:25,204 --> 00:00:26,884 We're thrilled to have you with us. And 13 00:00:26,884 --> 00:00:29,384 before we get into our discussion about integrated 14 00:00:29,445 --> 00:00:31,519 care, wanted to just check-in with you to 15 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:32,799 see if you could share a little bit 16 00:00:32,799 --> 00:00:34,799 more about yourself, your work in health care, 17 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:36,560 whatever you think is helpful for our listeners 18 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:37,219 to know. 19 00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:39,760 Sure. Well, again, great to be here with 20 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,840 you. Shana Hoffman, president and CEO here at 21 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,174 Lucid. So I've spent my whole career, in 22 00:00:44,255 --> 00:00:45,774 health care. I always joke when people talk 23 00:00:45,774 --> 00:00:47,215 to to me that I'm, 24 00:00:47,774 --> 00:00:49,774 somewhat jaded for my age in health care, 25 00:00:49,774 --> 00:00:51,054 but I feel like I've I've sort of 26 00:00:51,054 --> 00:00:52,914 seen it all. I was at DaVita for, 27 00:00:53,215 --> 00:00:54,814 a couple years then sort of in the 28 00:00:54,814 --> 00:00:55,634 VC backed 29 00:00:56,460 --> 00:00:57,280 tech space, 30 00:00:57,979 --> 00:01:00,140 working on patient access and sort of very 31 00:01:00,140 --> 00:01:02,700 small early stage companies, and then spent the 32 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:04,299 better part of the last probably close to 33 00:01:04,299 --> 00:01:06,140 ten years now in the behavioral health space, 34 00:01:06,140 --> 00:01:08,079 a mix of private equity backed players. 35 00:01:08,795 --> 00:01:09,694 And then here, 36 00:01:10,075 --> 00:01:12,814 at Lucid, which is a unique, payer owned 37 00:01:13,275 --> 00:01:13,775 company 38 00:01:14,155 --> 00:01:17,114 and really have been passionate about how do 39 00:01:17,114 --> 00:01:20,075 we get behavioral health to the forefront. And 40 00:01:20,075 --> 00:01:21,689 we're really excited, and we'll talk about this, 41 00:01:21,689 --> 00:01:23,770 I'm sure, today. We believe really, and I 42 00:01:23,770 --> 00:01:25,609 believe through sort of throughout my career that 43 00:01:25,609 --> 00:01:27,530 behavioral health is the unlock. And if you 44 00:01:27,530 --> 00:01:28,590 can actually unlock 45 00:01:28,969 --> 00:01:32,090 behavioral health needs for an individual patient member, 46 00:01:32,409 --> 00:01:34,409 that's what's gonna allow you to really transform 47 00:01:34,409 --> 00:01:36,665 their health care journey broadly across all the 48 00:01:36,665 --> 00:01:37,484 different dimensions. 49 00:01:38,185 --> 00:01:40,744 Oh, what a great quote. Behavioral health is 50 00:01:40,744 --> 00:01:42,744 the unlock. I I I think that is 51 00:01:42,744 --> 00:01:44,905 so well said, Shana. So thank you for 52 00:01:44,905 --> 00:01:46,344 sharing a bit more about your background and 53 00:01:46,344 --> 00:01:48,025 kind of this ethos that's guiding you and 54 00:01:48,025 --> 00:01:49,004 your work at Lucid. 55 00:01:49,540 --> 00:01:51,619 And just in that same vein as of 56 00:01:51,619 --> 00:01:52,920 behavioral health being, 57 00:01:53,379 --> 00:01:55,539 you know, getting it to the forefront, acknowledging 58 00:01:55,539 --> 00:01:57,379 its importance, I think there is a growing 59 00:01:57,379 --> 00:01:58,519 recognition that 60 00:01:58,899 --> 00:02:01,939 chronic disease overlaps with behavioral health needs in 61 00:02:01,939 --> 00:02:02,759 many cases. 62 00:02:03,484 --> 00:02:05,645 And and while that acknowledgment, it seems to 63 00:02:05,645 --> 00:02:06,625 be there increasingly, 64 00:02:07,645 --> 00:02:10,525 care can be frustrating for patients and for 65 00:02:10,525 --> 00:02:13,085 providers and payers, especially because we're seeing a 66 00:02:13,085 --> 00:02:13,824 lot of fragmentation 67 00:02:14,444 --> 00:02:15,745 between the two 68 00:02:16,110 --> 00:02:18,430 care journeys. So what do you see as 69 00:02:18,430 --> 00:02:20,989 the most significant risks and the consequences of 70 00:02:20,989 --> 00:02:22,289 fragmentation like this? 71 00:02:22,909 --> 00:02:24,430 Yeah. I mean, Erica, it's a great point. 72 00:02:24,430 --> 00:02:27,069 I think for for a long time, we've 73 00:02:27,069 --> 00:02:29,009 known that behavioral health and 74 00:02:29,310 --> 00:02:31,625 chronic, you know, medical conditions are intersected. 75 00:02:32,084 --> 00:02:34,084 To your point around fragmentation though, it's very 76 00:02:34,084 --> 00:02:35,384 interesting when you talk 77 00:02:35,764 --> 00:02:37,925 to anyone that's sort of bearing risk, whether 78 00:02:37,925 --> 00:02:39,525 that's a payer, whether that's a risk bearing 79 00:02:39,525 --> 00:02:40,745 primary care organization, 80 00:02:41,444 --> 00:02:44,250 they look at high cost needs claimants, and 81 00:02:44,250 --> 00:02:46,409 they generally look at those folks in two 82 00:02:46,409 --> 00:02:48,409 buckets. Right? They look at folks on the 83 00:02:48,409 --> 00:02:50,169 medical side and sort of high risk, high 84 00:02:50,169 --> 00:02:52,490 needs, and then they're also looking at people 85 00:02:52,490 --> 00:02:54,409 that are high utilizers from a behavioral health 86 00:02:54,409 --> 00:02:54,909 perspective. 87 00:02:55,284 --> 00:02:57,145 What I've, you know, noticed throughout, 88 00:02:57,525 --> 00:02:59,284 the years is that if you actually look 89 00:02:59,284 --> 00:03:01,284 at the percentage of people that are utilizing 90 00:03:01,284 --> 00:03:02,824 behavioral health services within 91 00:03:03,444 --> 00:03:05,525 the high risk, high needs and working to 92 00:03:05,525 --> 00:03:07,925 drive up those members that are connected into 93 00:03:07,925 --> 00:03:08,425 care, 94 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,919 there's a much lower percent of those people 95 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,400 that are in behavioral health care. And so 96 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,639 it's it's sort of long been this question 97 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,159 in my mind of why are we not 98 00:03:17,159 --> 00:03:19,319 trying to drive up behavioral health care and 99 00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:21,319 looking at it at the intersection of those 100 00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:21,819 things. 101 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,800 But to your point, this sort of system 102 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,164 of care doesn't actually put behavioral health and 103 00:03:27,164 --> 00:03:29,185 medical health together in a lot of cases. 104 00:03:29,405 --> 00:03:31,324 And that's why I'm super excited about the 105 00:03:31,324 --> 00:03:32,764 work that we're doing at Lucid. So we've 106 00:03:32,764 --> 00:03:35,084 been, you know, purpose built behavioral health company 107 00:03:35,084 --> 00:03:36,879 for twenty seven years 108 00:03:37,259 --> 00:03:39,580 now knowing that we were trying to get 109 00:03:39,580 --> 00:03:41,739 as many people screen triage and connected into 110 00:03:41,739 --> 00:03:43,340 behavioral health care. And that was our mission 111 00:03:43,340 --> 00:03:45,180 and purpose is how do we do that 112 00:03:45,180 --> 00:03:48,300 reliably, repeatedly at scale. But now because of 113 00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:50,379 this knowledge that, again, behavioral health is the 114 00:03:50,379 --> 00:03:52,965 unlock and the force multiplier on medical expense, 115 00:03:52,965 --> 00:03:56,664 we've actually brought a medical care delivery company 116 00:03:56,724 --> 00:03:58,104 into the fold at Lisette. 117 00:03:58,485 --> 00:04:01,384 So now we're able to actually put that 118 00:04:01,604 --> 00:04:03,685 behavioral health at the forefront and break down 119 00:04:03,685 --> 00:04:05,685 some of that fragmentation because we actually have 120 00:04:05,685 --> 00:04:08,050 a company that delivers care in the home. 121 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:10,129 And so now you can think about sort 122 00:04:10,129 --> 00:04:11,969 of that tip of spear for us of 123 00:04:11,969 --> 00:04:13,889 that looking at that patient. Yes. We know 124 00:04:13,889 --> 00:04:16,290 their medical needs, but we're looking at every 125 00:04:16,290 --> 00:04:18,149 patient through a behavioral health lens 126 00:04:18,545 --> 00:04:20,145 and being able to say, how do we 127 00:04:20,145 --> 00:04:21,665 make sure that their behavioral health needs are 128 00:04:21,665 --> 00:04:23,504 met? Because that's gonna allow us to then 129 00:04:23,504 --> 00:04:26,225 unlock on the medical side. So I think 130 00:04:26,225 --> 00:04:27,925 you're right that a lot of that fragmentation 131 00:04:28,145 --> 00:04:29,904 exists in the industry. I think we were 132 00:04:29,904 --> 00:04:31,504 trying to break through it in the form 133 00:04:31,504 --> 00:04:33,105 of, hey. We have a great behavioral health 134 00:04:33,105 --> 00:04:35,509 solution that can help you. I think now 135 00:04:35,509 --> 00:04:37,350 we've said, hey. We're gonna take matters into 136 00:04:37,350 --> 00:04:38,250 our own hands, 137 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:41,269 and bring that medical care delivery asset into 138 00:04:41,269 --> 00:04:44,149 the fold. And I'm incredibly excited about some 139 00:04:44,149 --> 00:04:45,750 of the outcomes we're already seeing and what 140 00:04:45,750 --> 00:04:47,589 we can actually drive and deliver that to 141 00:04:47,589 --> 00:04:49,884 the system to be that integrated care solution 142 00:04:49,884 --> 00:04:50,704 where I think, 143 00:04:51,324 --> 00:04:53,564 execution has been challenging in the past, and 144 00:04:53,564 --> 00:04:55,884 we're seeing really great opportunities to actually drive 145 00:04:55,884 --> 00:04:56,625 that integration. 146 00:04:57,164 --> 00:04:57,664 Mhmm. 147 00:04:58,044 --> 00:05:00,365 Shana, what an exciting development. Thank you so 148 00:05:00,365 --> 00:05:02,610 much for sharing about how your how Lucid 149 00:05:02,689 --> 00:05:04,529 is bringing medical care delivery kind of into 150 00:05:04,529 --> 00:05:06,689 the fold as you've described. I'm looking forward 151 00:05:06,689 --> 00:05:08,370 to hearing about some some of those outcomes 152 00:05:08,370 --> 00:05:09,509 that you're seeing as well. 153 00:05:10,050 --> 00:05:12,209 But just wanna say too that it's a 154 00:05:12,209 --> 00:05:14,610 fascinating approach because I think sometimes or I 155 00:05:14,610 --> 00:05:16,125 I would say most times we hear about 156 00:05:16,125 --> 00:05:18,524 the reverse approach. It's normally medical providers bringing 157 00:05:18,524 --> 00:05:20,605 behavioral health into the fold, but, you know, 158 00:05:20,605 --> 00:05:22,444 you're I I think this is certainly, it 159 00:05:22,444 --> 00:05:24,125 seems like Lucent must be a front runner 160 00:05:24,125 --> 00:05:26,444 in this position. So really exciting to hear 161 00:05:26,444 --> 00:05:28,524 this development. And it reminds me of what 162 00:05:28,524 --> 00:05:29,884 we hear about a lot in health care 163 00:05:29,884 --> 00:05:32,519 today, which is this whole person approach to 164 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:35,980 care. So combining medical, behavioral health, social supports, 165 00:05:36,519 --> 00:05:37,720 and I know that that can have a 166 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,360 big impact on health outcomes. So from your 167 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:40,860 perspective, 168 00:05:41,399 --> 00:05:42,540 what role do multidisciplinary 169 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,300 teams and community based interventions play in making 170 00:05:46,334 --> 00:05:48,354 care both effective and also accessible? 171 00:05:49,134 --> 00:05:50,595 Yeah. I mean, I think it's a multidisciplinary 172 00:05:51,134 --> 00:05:53,055 approach and team is, you know, a huge 173 00:05:53,055 --> 00:05:54,194 part of the solution. 174 00:05:54,654 --> 00:05:56,974 Again, I think, you know, the hallmark really 175 00:05:56,974 --> 00:05:58,894 of Lucid has been how do you break 176 00:05:58,894 --> 00:06:01,550 down to sort of execution some of these 177 00:06:01,550 --> 00:06:03,389 things that we all talk about. Right? Everyone, 178 00:06:03,389 --> 00:06:05,089 I think, has known multidisciplinary 179 00:06:05,470 --> 00:06:07,790 care teams being able to weave in social 180 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:09,629 determinants of health, being able to kind of 181 00:06:09,629 --> 00:06:11,995 bring a holistic solution to the patient. But 182 00:06:11,995 --> 00:06:13,754 it's not as simple. In a lot of 183 00:06:13,754 --> 00:06:15,595 cases, the way that then manifests in the 184 00:06:15,595 --> 00:06:17,514 system is that you have a care manager 185 00:06:17,514 --> 00:06:19,194 from your health plan. Maybe you're in a 186 00:06:19,194 --> 00:06:21,514 particular chronic disease program through that health plan. 187 00:06:21,514 --> 00:06:23,595 So now you might have a care manager 188 00:06:23,595 --> 00:06:25,774 through that specific kidney care, for example, 189 00:06:26,170 --> 00:06:28,330 disease program, then you go to your primary 190 00:06:28,330 --> 00:06:30,330 care provider. If they're in a risk, 191 00:06:30,650 --> 00:06:33,050 arrangement, you might also have a care manager. 192 00:06:33,050 --> 00:06:34,569 Right? You might have one through the eight. 193 00:06:34,569 --> 00:06:36,750 So the everyone's, I think, recognize 194 00:06:37,050 --> 00:06:39,610 the importance and and critical nature of those 195 00:06:39,610 --> 00:06:41,685 different systems of care, But then kind of 196 00:06:41,685 --> 00:06:43,125 it's where the rubber meets the road in 197 00:06:43,125 --> 00:06:45,524 the execution that I think things struggle. Because 198 00:06:45,524 --> 00:06:46,964 if you're a patient on the other side, 199 00:06:46,964 --> 00:06:48,964 and this is where, you know, we've been 200 00:06:48,964 --> 00:06:51,285 very focused on being member centric or patient 201 00:06:51,285 --> 00:06:52,805 centric now sort of in the in the 202 00:06:52,805 --> 00:06:54,404 world of both living in payer and care 203 00:06:54,404 --> 00:06:54,904 delivery. 204 00:06:55,269 --> 00:06:56,409 But how do you 205 00:06:57,029 --> 00:06:58,789 really make that into a reality that if 206 00:06:58,789 --> 00:07:00,709 it's your mom or your dad on the 207 00:07:00,709 --> 00:07:01,449 other side 208 00:07:01,750 --> 00:07:04,069 of that paper that they're not getting four 209 00:07:04,069 --> 00:07:05,990 or five calls and outreach because they're trying 210 00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:07,769 to engage that individual. Right? 211 00:07:08,375 --> 00:07:10,295 And so, you know, to me, I think 212 00:07:10,295 --> 00:07:12,214 there's again, this is one of those times 213 00:07:12,214 --> 00:07:14,074 when there's been such strong recognition, 214 00:07:15,014 --> 00:07:17,415 really about multidisciplinary care teams as well as 215 00:07:17,415 --> 00:07:19,654 kind of the need to integrate behavioral health, 216 00:07:19,654 --> 00:07:21,254 but it's all kinda comes down to the 217 00:07:21,254 --> 00:07:23,514 execution. And so I think that's gonna be 218 00:07:23,629 --> 00:07:26,269 really for Lucid and for other organizations is 219 00:07:26,269 --> 00:07:27,729 how do you start to say 220 00:07:28,269 --> 00:07:30,430 what is really best for that member patient 221 00:07:30,430 --> 00:07:32,669 and break down some of those workflows. Again, 222 00:07:32,669 --> 00:07:34,750 it's really challenging when it's five different companies 223 00:07:34,750 --> 00:07:36,269 that are all out for their own, you 224 00:07:36,269 --> 00:07:38,189 know, financials and economics, and they need to 225 00:07:38,189 --> 00:07:40,305 engage that patient. But we've been able to 226 00:07:40,305 --> 00:07:42,225 sort of simplify some of that because we're 227 00:07:42,225 --> 00:07:43,444 doing this kind of handhold 228 00:07:43,904 --> 00:07:46,144 with the payer, and there's been more trust 229 00:07:46,144 --> 00:07:47,904 and willingness if you're taking kind of the 230 00:07:47,904 --> 00:07:48,964 medical and behavioral 231 00:07:49,425 --> 00:07:51,504 to be kind of that one central partner 232 00:07:51,504 --> 00:07:53,824 and really quarterback that care in a really 233 00:07:53,824 --> 00:07:54,625 meaningful way, 234 00:07:55,399 --> 00:07:57,879 that that can integrate and and really deliver 235 00:07:57,879 --> 00:08:00,300 on that promise, from a from a multidisciplinary 236 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:01,500 approach. 237 00:08:02,199 --> 00:08:04,759 Yeah, Shana. A really helpful overview. And so 238 00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:06,520 I wanna go a little bit deeper there, 239 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,120 and then also we'll we'll be sure to 240 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,254 touch on some outcomes too. But, you know, 241 00:08:10,254 --> 00:08:12,654 you're saying that to really bring this whole 242 00:08:12,654 --> 00:08:15,214 person approach to life, it sounds like it's 243 00:08:15,214 --> 00:08:17,134 complex. And at the same time, it it 244 00:08:17,134 --> 00:08:19,694 requires a lot of simplification too, making things 245 00:08:19,694 --> 00:08:22,259 simpler for payers as they're navigating the space. 246 00:08:22,819 --> 00:08:24,339 So I wanna talk a little bit about 247 00:08:24,339 --> 00:08:27,300 scaling this model. You know, what's really needed 248 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:30,339 from health plans and providers to deliver integrated 249 00:08:30,339 --> 00:08:32,019 care at scale? And if you could ask 250 00:08:32,019 --> 00:08:34,179 leaders to make one change right now to 251 00:08:34,179 --> 00:08:36,200 head in that direction, what would it be? 252 00:08:36,625 --> 00:08:37,745 Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of 253 00:08:37,745 --> 00:08:40,704 the work that we're doing is around operational 254 00:08:40,704 --> 00:08:41,764 and clinical transparency. 255 00:08:42,384 --> 00:08:44,485 And what I mean by that is everyone 256 00:08:44,704 --> 00:08:46,245 kind of sitting at the table, 257 00:08:46,784 --> 00:08:49,664 and sharing what they are uniquely positioned to 258 00:08:49,664 --> 00:08:52,470 do well and not. I think again and 259 00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:54,629 and we've sort of benefited in in not 260 00:08:54,629 --> 00:08:56,709 being, you know, a VC backed company that's 261 00:08:56,709 --> 00:08:58,230 sort of trying to raise the next round 262 00:08:58,230 --> 00:08:59,909 and having to kind of promise on on 263 00:08:59,909 --> 00:09:02,549 certain outcomes, but really deeply rooted in the 264 00:09:02,549 --> 00:09:05,784 execution and and delivering results. And so coming 265 00:09:05,784 --> 00:09:08,024 to the table and saying, hey. If you 266 00:09:08,024 --> 00:09:10,024 pass me a population, I'm gonna cut that 267 00:09:10,024 --> 00:09:11,705 population and look at it in all these 268 00:09:11,705 --> 00:09:12,524 different ways, 269 00:09:13,144 --> 00:09:15,304 and I'm gonna see where I can actually 270 00:09:15,304 --> 00:09:18,105 drive impact. So if I have chronic disease 271 00:09:18,105 --> 00:09:20,370 members in a certain condition type and they 272 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:23,250 have underlying behavioral health needs, we're gonna, one, 273 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:25,330 look at those things together. And then, two, 274 00:09:25,330 --> 00:09:26,929 we're gonna pick where we know we can 275 00:09:26,929 --> 00:09:29,269 drive impact and actually have 276 00:09:29,809 --> 00:09:30,710 a both product 277 00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:31,750 sales 278 00:09:32,214 --> 00:09:34,455 pricing model that matches to that. And so 279 00:09:34,455 --> 00:09:35,514 having a very 280 00:09:36,134 --> 00:09:38,934 transparent conversation to a health plan around, this 281 00:09:38,934 --> 00:09:40,534 is where I can drive impact with with 282 00:09:40,534 --> 00:09:41,195 your members. 283 00:09:41,735 --> 00:09:43,095 This is where I think maybe you can 284 00:09:43,095 --> 00:09:44,855 drive impact with your members. And then, of 285 00:09:44,855 --> 00:09:46,615 course, we need to bring the provider piece 286 00:09:46,615 --> 00:09:48,669 into the fold as well in terms of 287 00:09:48,669 --> 00:09:50,429 where, you know, the role of of those 288 00:09:50,669 --> 00:09:52,909 particularly the risk bearing primary care players in 289 00:09:52,909 --> 00:09:55,629 that. But really sort of dividing up that 290 00:09:55,629 --> 00:09:58,450 population to drive impact, that is different from 291 00:09:58,669 --> 00:10:00,610 kind of the, hey. Give me everybody, 292 00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:01,570 and 293 00:10:01,965 --> 00:10:04,285 I'm gonna have some sort of arbitrage opportunity 294 00:10:04,285 --> 00:10:05,644 where there's some people that are not gonna 295 00:10:05,644 --> 00:10:07,165 need care, and I'm gonna be able to 296 00:10:07,165 --> 00:10:08,225 sort of make it 297 00:10:08,605 --> 00:10:10,684 up on that and maybe or maybe not 298 00:10:10,684 --> 00:10:12,764 be well positioned to deliver for those acute 299 00:10:12,764 --> 00:10:15,245 populations. So I think it's this very, 300 00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:17,669 I know everyone always talks about sort of 301 00:10:17,669 --> 00:10:19,429 the data sharing and sort of why hasn't 302 00:10:19,429 --> 00:10:21,509 value based care kind of come to fruition 303 00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:23,350 in the way that everybody wants it to 304 00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:24,870 and that being a data problem. I'm seeing 305 00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:27,830 something slightly different, which is it's around kind 306 00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:29,750 of taking that data and then having a 307 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:32,675 very transparent approach. And even in in the 308 00:10:32,675 --> 00:10:34,595 operational side too in terms of what can 309 00:10:34,595 --> 00:10:36,995 you drive actually from an engagement metric perspective, 310 00:10:36,995 --> 00:10:39,075 not having the what's the promise of what 311 00:10:39,075 --> 00:10:40,774 it is, but what what is actually 312 00:10:41,154 --> 00:10:44,000 possible relative to staffing and outcomes. And I 313 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,240 think the more that those conversations happen, you 314 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:47,839 start to be able to sort of divvy 315 00:10:47,839 --> 00:10:49,440 up the work to where the impact and 316 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,600 outcomes can be driven. And that also simplifies 317 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,519 things for the patient because, essentially, you don't 318 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:54,019 have 319 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:57,120 five different parties trying to engage that patient 320 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:57,779 to remember. 321 00:10:59,115 --> 00:11:01,514 So interesting, Sheena. What you're saying here about 322 00:11:01,514 --> 00:11:03,754 in value based care from your point of 323 00:11:03,754 --> 00:11:06,315 view, it's not necessarily a data problem making 324 00:11:06,315 --> 00:11:08,394 it hard for this model to really come 325 00:11:08,394 --> 00:11:10,394 to life to the full extent. It's about 326 00:11:10,394 --> 00:11:13,679 taking a transparent approach with that data operationally 327 00:11:13,820 --> 00:11:16,139 speaking. It sounds almost like a surgical approach, 328 00:11:16,139 --> 00:11:17,740 what you described earlier. It was such a 329 00:11:17,740 --> 00:11:18,240 great, 330 00:11:18,700 --> 00:11:20,059 great way that you described it, and I 331 00:11:20,059 --> 00:11:21,980 appreciate you sharing that with our listeners. And 332 00:11:21,980 --> 00:11:24,779 it sounds like two bidirectional communication is really 333 00:11:24,779 --> 00:11:25,279 important, 334 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:27,419 for payers and providers in this in this 335 00:11:27,419 --> 00:11:27,919 way. 336 00:11:28,754 --> 00:11:30,514 But before we wrap, this has been such 337 00:11:30,514 --> 00:11:32,274 a great conversation. I I did wanna give 338 00:11:32,274 --> 00:11:34,134 you the chance to just highlight any 339 00:11:34,434 --> 00:11:36,434 outcomes you're seeing either at the patient or 340 00:11:36,434 --> 00:11:40,034 population level with this approach of truly integrating 341 00:11:40,034 --> 00:11:42,259 care. You know, bringing medical care into the 342 00:11:42,259 --> 00:11:44,179 fold or whatever you'd like to highlight or 343 00:11:44,179 --> 00:11:45,860 any metrics that you're proud of, would love 344 00:11:45,860 --> 00:11:47,000 to hear about those two. 345 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:49,940 Yeah. So, it's been really exciting. You know, 346 00:11:49,940 --> 00:11:51,700 your comments are are right around sort of 347 00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:53,539 that surgical approach. I am an engineer by 348 00:11:53,539 --> 00:11:55,379 background, and so we've taken a very sort 349 00:11:55,379 --> 00:11:57,375 of methodical approach to this, actually, both on 350 00:11:57,375 --> 00:11:58,894 the behavioral health side and now on the 351 00:11:58,894 --> 00:12:00,514 integrated care side. So, 352 00:12:01,134 --> 00:12:02,975 you know, many of folks in the market 353 00:12:02,975 --> 00:12:04,414 may know Lucid for, 354 00:12:04,815 --> 00:12:07,134 our access to care product, the navigate connect 355 00:12:07,134 --> 00:12:08,894 product, and it's been an interesting sort of 356 00:12:08,894 --> 00:12:09,394 evolution 357 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:11,720 of the company where we've been, you know, 358 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,600 focused on innovating on the behavioral health offerings 359 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,319 for health plans and bringing this Navigate Connect 360 00:12:17,319 --> 00:12:19,259 product that was focused on getting 361 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:22,784 patients connected quickly to high quality care. And 362 00:12:22,784 --> 00:12:25,345 so that's been the, you know, starting point. 363 00:12:25,345 --> 00:12:27,345 So we have now that product up and 364 00:12:27,345 --> 00:12:29,664 running. Eighty three percent of patients are booked 365 00:12:29,664 --> 00:12:32,144 into care within seven days. There's been a 366 00:12:32,144 --> 00:12:34,704 a really significant increase, five point two days, 367 00:12:34,704 --> 00:12:36,245 the average time between booking, 368 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:39,549 and care. And then the really exciting thing 369 00:12:39,549 --> 00:12:41,470 is eighty one percent of those patients that 370 00:12:41,470 --> 00:12:42,769 we are connecting to, 371 00:12:43,230 --> 00:12:44,910 the initial visits are actually going for a 372 00:12:44,910 --> 00:12:46,429 second visit. And so we've seen in the 373 00:12:46,429 --> 00:12:49,470 data that the patients that are coming to 374 00:12:49,470 --> 00:12:51,710 us through the various channels that we deploy 375 00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:54,164 this through, one, actually have a higher acuity 376 00:12:54,164 --> 00:12:55,524 on the medical side. So, again, this is 377 00:12:55,524 --> 00:12:57,304 sort of the starting point of that integration 378 00:12:57,365 --> 00:12:57,865 piece, 379 00:12:58,245 --> 00:13:01,144 but also are continuing on into care. 380 00:13:01,605 --> 00:13:03,365 And it's actually interesting on the behavioral health 381 00:13:03,365 --> 00:13:05,225 side. You don't need that many, 382 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,080 outpatient interactions in many cases to actually start 383 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,639 to bend both the patient outcomes and the 384 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:13,720 cost curve, but it is really critical that 385 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,200 you get beyond that first visit. We've also 386 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,759 done over 15,000,000 assessments, and so we actually 387 00:13:18,759 --> 00:13:21,085 have one of the largest repositories of sort 388 00:13:21,085 --> 00:13:23,644 of provider agnostic behavioral health assessment data in 389 00:13:23,644 --> 00:13:24,304 the country. 390 00:13:24,845 --> 00:13:27,325 And then, you know, we've seen again in 391 00:13:27,325 --> 00:13:29,725 the data from getting those numbers connected into 392 00:13:29,725 --> 00:13:30,784 high quality care, 393 00:13:31,245 --> 00:13:33,004 a $227 394 00:13:33,004 --> 00:13:35,879 PMPM children medical expense savings. So all of 395 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:37,639 that data on the behavioral health side is 396 00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:39,799 what then led us to say, hey. If 397 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:40,779 you bring together 398 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:43,960 the medical piece kind of, again, into the 399 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,720 fold. And so it's early days for us 400 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,480 on that, but we know from the the 401 00:13:47,639 --> 00:13:49,704 we acquire a company called EMCARA and now 402 00:13:49,704 --> 00:13:50,445 have relaunched, 403 00:13:51,144 --> 00:13:53,725 that Lucid at Home product that the EMCARA, 404 00:13:53,865 --> 00:13:57,225 Lucid at Home product delivers 26% reduction in 405 00:13:57,225 --> 00:14:01,080 admission, 6% reduction in emergency department visits. And, 406 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,720 again, this is without really that BH at 407 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,759 the forefront component. And so we're really excited. 408 00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:08,440 Hopefully, next time, you know, I come on 409 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,279 in in a year or so, we'll have 410 00:14:10,279 --> 00:14:10,779 the, 411 00:14:11,399 --> 00:14:13,639 data because we're already starting to really combine 412 00:14:13,639 --> 00:14:16,059 those pieces together in the product to say 413 00:14:16,144 --> 00:14:17,825 what's gonna be the impact if you layer 414 00:14:17,825 --> 00:14:19,504 in those outcomes I've, you know, shared on 415 00:14:19,504 --> 00:14:21,825 the behavioral health side, couple that up with 416 00:14:21,825 --> 00:14:23,585 the medical side, and look at what you 417 00:14:23,585 --> 00:14:25,044 can drive as far 418 00:14:25,345 --> 00:14:26,945 as the, you know, healthy days at home, 419 00:14:26,945 --> 00:14:28,544 which we look at, which is obviously the 420 00:14:28,544 --> 00:14:31,110 human element of providing that as well as 421 00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:33,829 on the, you know, financial measures. So I 422 00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:36,549 think super exciting what has already been delivered 423 00:14:36,549 --> 00:14:38,089 on both behavioral and medical. 424 00:14:38,709 --> 00:14:40,629 And, of course, we, you know, spend a 425 00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:42,870 lot of time figuring out what to measure 426 00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:43,370 here. 427 00:14:44,014 --> 00:14:46,095 But to me, you know, there's gonna be 428 00:14:46,095 --> 00:14:48,894 a a a significant multiplier effect when you 429 00:14:48,894 --> 00:14:50,274 combine these pieces together. 430 00:14:51,054 --> 00:14:53,375 Yeah. Shana, I appreciate everything that you just 431 00:14:53,375 --> 00:14:56,274 shared. Some really impressive metrics. And 432 00:14:56,610 --> 00:14:58,529 as you said, if we we hopefully speak 433 00:14:58,529 --> 00:15:00,049 again a year from now, I can't wait 434 00:15:00,049 --> 00:15:01,889 to see how those numbers change and and 435 00:15:01,889 --> 00:15:03,730 what's on the horizon for Lucid with this 436 00:15:03,730 --> 00:15:04,389 new approach. 437 00:15:04,929 --> 00:15:06,529 It's been a great time talking to you 438 00:15:06,529 --> 00:15:08,370 today, Sheena. Just wanted to give you the 439 00:15:08,370 --> 00:15:10,789 space to share any final thoughts or takeaways, 440 00:15:11,205 --> 00:15:12,745 before we close our time together. 441 00:15:13,365 --> 00:15:15,684 No. I really appreciated the the time today. 442 00:15:15,684 --> 00:15:16,665 Again, I think 443 00:15:17,045 --> 00:15:19,365 excited to start to have, you know, the 444 00:15:19,365 --> 00:15:21,365 market talk about BH at the forefront. I 445 00:15:21,365 --> 00:15:23,205 think you pointed it out well that most 446 00:15:23,205 --> 00:15:25,285 times we think about medical primary and BH 447 00:15:25,285 --> 00:15:25,785 secondary, 448 00:15:26,165 --> 00:15:28,610 or tertiary in some cases. And so the 449 00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:29,589 idea of putting 450 00:15:29,889 --> 00:15:32,529 behavioral health primary, again, we're leading the charge 451 00:15:32,529 --> 00:15:34,769 on that, but excited to see, the market 452 00:15:34,769 --> 00:15:36,610 come along because I think, obviously, that, you 453 00:15:36,610 --> 00:15:38,610 know, from my perspective is is better for 454 00:15:38,610 --> 00:15:39,110 patients 455 00:15:39,464 --> 00:15:41,704 if we take that approach. So really appreciated 456 00:15:41,704 --> 00:15:43,464 the time today and excited to to keep 457 00:15:43,464 --> 00:15:46,024 in touch over the next, coming months. Well, 458 00:15:46,024 --> 00:15:48,024 Shana, thank you so much again for your 459 00:15:48,024 --> 00:15:49,784 time and your insights today. It's been a 460 00:15:49,784 --> 00:15:50,524 great conversation. 461 00:15:50,985 --> 00:15:52,424 And, of course, we'd also like to thank 462 00:15:52,424 --> 00:15:55,319 the sponsor for today's podcast episode, Lucid. 463 00:15:55,940 --> 00:15:57,860 Listeners, you can tune in to more podcasts 464 00:15:57,860 --> 00:16:00,500 from Becker's by visiting our podcast page at 465 00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:02,839 beckershospitalreview.com.