1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,000 Hello, everyone. This is Jacob Emerson with the 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,779 Becker's Pay Your Issues podcast. 3 00:00:04,319 --> 00:00:06,500 Thrilled today to be joined by Dave Verkani, 4 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:08,720 who is the vice president of innovation, market 5 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,019 insights, and communications 6 00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:13,724 within Cigna Healthcare's dental and vision business. Dave, 7 00:00:13,724 --> 00:00:15,324 thanks so much for taking the time to 8 00:00:15,324 --> 00:00:16,864 be with me on the podcast today. 9 00:00:17,324 --> 00:00:20,064 Great. Thanks, Jacob. Appreciate the the time and 10 00:00:20,204 --> 00:00:22,844 opportunity to be here. Absolutely. And, Dave, before 11 00:00:22,844 --> 00:00:24,285 we dive into everything we wanna talk with 12 00:00:24,285 --> 00:00:25,644 you about, can you first tell us a 13 00:00:25,644 --> 00:00:27,884 little bit more about yourself, your background in 14 00:00:27,884 --> 00:00:29,539 health care, and what it is that you 15 00:00:29,539 --> 00:00:30,679 do today at Cigna? 16 00:00:31,539 --> 00:00:34,500 Sure. So I've been with Cigna for twenty 17 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:36,579 three years, hard to believe. Came from the 18 00:00:36,579 --> 00:00:39,559 financial services industry before moving to health care. 19 00:00:39,939 --> 00:00:41,939 And, part of my current role, which as 20 00:00:41,939 --> 00:00:44,495 you mentioned, is leading innovation and market insights 21 00:00:44,495 --> 00:00:46,435 for our dental and vision business, 22 00:00:47,295 --> 00:00:50,435 I held roles different leadership roles in marketing, 23 00:00:50,655 --> 00:00:51,715 in business development, 24 00:00:52,575 --> 00:00:54,195 market research, provider, 25 00:00:54,815 --> 00:00:55,315 strategy, 26 00:00:56,094 --> 00:00:56,755 and affordability 27 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,520 strategy in lots of different businesses across the 28 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,979 Cigna portfolio. So, fairly broad health care background. 29 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,760 Fantastic. Well, Dave, like I said, we appreciate 30 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,439 you taking the time to sit down with 31 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:09,840 us. And I I wanna dive right in 32 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:10,980 by talking about, 33 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,375 an initiative that Cigna just announced, 34 00:01:14,775 --> 00:01:15,275 recently, 35 00:01:15,814 --> 00:01:19,895 expanding access to flexible dental payments to 2,800,000 36 00:01:19,895 --> 00:01:21,275 more of your members. 37 00:01:21,575 --> 00:01:23,655 So for our listeners who might not be 38 00:01:23,655 --> 00:01:26,069 familiar with what exactly is happening here, can 39 00:01:26,069 --> 00:01:27,750 you give us a breakdown of of how 40 00:01:27,750 --> 00:01:30,069 you're achieving this, what you're hoping to to 41 00:01:30,069 --> 00:01:32,569 achieve, and what your timeline has been here? 42 00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:33,989 Yeah. Happy to. 43 00:01:35,349 --> 00:01:38,495 The goal behind the program that that we're 44 00:01:38,495 --> 00:01:39,155 talking about 45 00:01:39,694 --> 00:01:42,015 today is Cigna really was looking to figure 46 00:01:42,015 --> 00:01:44,094 out ways we could improve people's health by 47 00:01:44,094 --> 00:01:46,814 removing cost as a barrier to getting needed 48 00:01:46,814 --> 00:01:48,975 care. So even though somebody might have coverage, 49 00:01:48,975 --> 00:01:50,495 they might have insurance, it doesn't mean that 50 00:01:50,495 --> 00:01:53,055 they can necessarily afford to use their benefits 51 00:01:53,055 --> 00:01:53,875 all the time. 52 00:01:54,310 --> 00:01:55,909 And we wanted to make sure we could 53 00:01:55,909 --> 00:01:57,829 find ways to help people remove that barrier 54 00:01:57,829 --> 00:01:59,530 and get the most out of their benefits. 55 00:01:59,909 --> 00:02:02,489 So this initiative is a partnership with 56 00:02:03,189 --> 00:02:04,329 a company called Patient. 57 00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:07,530 And as part of our market launch, 58 00:02:08,175 --> 00:02:11,254 we've launched patients employer sponsored benefit. And the 59 00:02:11,254 --> 00:02:12,655 the basic way it works is it it 60 00:02:12,655 --> 00:02:13,635 provides employees 61 00:02:14,415 --> 00:02:16,495 with an on demand credit line that they 62 00:02:16,495 --> 00:02:18,335 can use to pay for out of pocket 63 00:02:18,335 --> 00:02:19,314 health care costs. 64 00:02:19,694 --> 00:02:21,155 And it's got really flexible 65 00:02:21,455 --> 00:02:24,620 repayment terms with, this is was really important 66 00:02:24,620 --> 00:02:26,939 to us. No interest or fees to the 67 00:02:26,939 --> 00:02:29,040 the consumer or customer or or member, 68 00:02:29,340 --> 00:02:31,340 whichever term you wanna use. We wanted to 69 00:02:31,340 --> 00:02:33,980 make sure this wasn't putting potentially some additional 70 00:02:33,980 --> 00:02:34,480 burden 71 00:02:34,860 --> 00:02:36,700 on them by requiring them to actually pay 72 00:02:36,700 --> 00:02:39,495 credit card fees. And, as is mentioned, it's 73 00:02:39,495 --> 00:02:42,135 an employer sponsored benefit, so employers are choosing 74 00:02:42,135 --> 00:02:43,194 to offer this 75 00:02:43,574 --> 00:02:44,474 to their employees 76 00:02:45,175 --> 00:02:46,955 and decide which health care cost, 77 00:02:47,254 --> 00:02:49,895 categories are covered and can also determine things 78 00:02:49,895 --> 00:02:51,974 like the credit line that they're offering, and 79 00:02:51,974 --> 00:02:54,680 repayment terms. And I think we also importantly 80 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,280 before we talk about kind of the expansion 81 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:56,780 here 82 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:57,580 is, 83 00:02:58,439 --> 00:02:59,900 from the employer perspective, 84 00:03:00,439 --> 00:03:02,219 they don't take on any credit risk. 85 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,260 Patient actually takes on the full financial liability 86 00:03:05,319 --> 00:03:07,944 on collected payments. So there's some protection for 87 00:03:07,944 --> 00:03:08,844 both the employer 88 00:03:09,224 --> 00:03:11,144 and the employee. And the last kind of 89 00:03:11,144 --> 00:03:12,745 benefit I mentioned in terms of things we 90 00:03:12,745 --> 00:03:13,905 were looking to get out of this kind 91 00:03:13,905 --> 00:03:14,525 of program, 92 00:03:15,064 --> 00:03:17,144 we're very focused on the health care providers, 93 00:03:17,144 --> 00:03:19,305 the dental providers in our network, and our 94 00:03:19,305 --> 00:03:21,144 relationships with them. They're the ones who actually 95 00:03:21,144 --> 00:03:22,444 deliver care to our customers, 96 00:03:22,745 --> 00:03:24,800 and and this also benefits the providers in 97 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,939 the sense that it helps 98 00:03:26,319 --> 00:03:29,460 reduce bad debt or challenges in collecting patient, 99 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:30,819 payment responsibility. 100 00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:33,840 I appreciate you taking us through that, Dave. 101 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,644 And so this is an existing partnership. You've 102 00:03:36,724 --> 00:03:38,185 you're now expanding it. 103 00:03:38,644 --> 00:03:40,084 Let's get to the core of what I 104 00:03:40,084 --> 00:03:41,444 think a lot of our listeners will be 105 00:03:41,444 --> 00:03:43,525 curious about, and it really is how is 106 00:03:43,525 --> 00:03:46,824 this improving access to preventive care, to critical 107 00:03:47,205 --> 00:03:49,224 dental procedures for your members, 108 00:03:49,604 --> 00:03:51,230 and what are some of the impacts you've 109 00:03:51,230 --> 00:03:53,870 seen already, you expect to see, in terms 110 00:03:53,870 --> 00:03:56,770 of member satisfaction and, of course, health outcomes? 111 00:03:57,310 --> 00:03:59,150 Sure. And maybe, Jacob, before I jump into 112 00:03:59,150 --> 00:04:00,990 that, I should probably mention something that is 113 00:04:00,990 --> 00:04:02,349 relevant to, I think, you know, some of 114 00:04:02,349 --> 00:04:03,949 the press releases and things that led to 115 00:04:03,949 --> 00:04:05,870 this, you know, podcast in the first place. 116 00:04:05,870 --> 00:04:06,370 So 117 00:04:06,694 --> 00:04:08,854 we launched this initially as part of a 118 00:04:08,854 --> 00:04:10,634 pilot in 2024 119 00:04:10,775 --> 00:04:13,335 to our national accounts business segment, which is 120 00:04:13,335 --> 00:04:16,055 very large employers with more than 3,000 employees. 121 00:04:16,055 --> 00:04:17,654 And and the more recent news is that 122 00:04:17,654 --> 00:04:20,500 we've made it available to our middle market 123 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:22,279 segment, think mid sized employers 124 00:04:22,819 --> 00:04:24,740 with between 503,000 125 00:04:24,740 --> 00:04:27,240 employees. So now with that expansion, 126 00:04:27,699 --> 00:04:30,019 we've actually now got across our book of 127 00:04:30,019 --> 00:04:30,519 business, 128 00:04:30,899 --> 00:04:31,800 13,000,000 129 00:04:31,939 --> 00:04:33,719 of our covered individuals, our customers 130 00:04:34,175 --> 00:04:36,335 nationwide who are actually eligible for this this 131 00:04:36,335 --> 00:04:37,295 program. So, 132 00:04:37,775 --> 00:04:39,295 I could talk a little bit about the 133 00:04:39,295 --> 00:04:40,814 the impacts. We wanted to make sure, you 134 00:04:40,814 --> 00:04:42,574 know, the the potential scope of where this 135 00:04:42,574 --> 00:04:44,995 is available was was, was clear as well. 136 00:04:45,214 --> 00:04:47,535 Absolutely. No. I appreciate you clarifying that. So 137 00:04:47,535 --> 00:04:49,395 13,000,000 members now eligible, 138 00:04:49,889 --> 00:04:52,129 for this program. But, Dave, I'll let you 139 00:04:52,129 --> 00:04:54,610 continue in terms of, what what it's achieved 140 00:04:54,610 --> 00:04:55,990 so far in terms of metrics. 141 00:04:56,769 --> 00:04:57,269 Sure. 142 00:04:57,649 --> 00:04:59,810 You know, when you look at again, our 143 00:04:59,810 --> 00:05:01,110 goals were behind this program. 144 00:05:01,649 --> 00:05:04,610 If you look at, the opportunity to prevent 145 00:05:04,610 --> 00:05:06,435 oral health issues because this as I mentioned, 146 00:05:06,435 --> 00:05:08,355 this started with our dental, you know, product. 147 00:05:08,355 --> 00:05:10,375 We've kind of expanded it beyond that. But, 148 00:05:10,754 --> 00:05:12,694 by preventing oral health issues 149 00:05:13,074 --> 00:05:14,134 that people might have, 150 00:05:14,595 --> 00:05:17,254 those can really lead to much broader systemic 151 00:05:17,314 --> 00:05:17,814 problems. 152 00:05:18,689 --> 00:05:21,189 For example, gum disease has been linked to 153 00:05:21,250 --> 00:05:23,490 lots of other serious health issues like heart 154 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:24,629 disease and diabetes, 155 00:05:25,649 --> 00:05:27,910 or people showing up in the emergency department 156 00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:30,529 to treat, dental pain and infection. That's a 157 00:05:30,529 --> 00:05:33,714 really inefficient and very expensive way to to 158 00:05:33,714 --> 00:05:35,014 address dental pain. 159 00:05:35,475 --> 00:05:37,235 And those are some of the reasons, you 160 00:05:37,235 --> 00:05:39,634 know, why we were motivated to do to 161 00:05:39,634 --> 00:05:41,714 do this, as well as just helping people 162 00:05:41,714 --> 00:05:43,175 use their benefits more effectively. 163 00:05:43,955 --> 00:05:44,355 And, 164 00:05:44,995 --> 00:05:46,615 when you look at our own 165 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:48,620 launch here, 166 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,000 we basically have had some pretty, 167 00:05:51,879 --> 00:05:53,580 encouraging results. So 168 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:55,019 when you think about 169 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,680 out of pocket costs for essential dental services, 170 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,519 things like, you know, a crown or a 171 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:02,860 root canal can exceed the typical 172 00:06:03,214 --> 00:06:04,014 1,500 173 00:06:04,014 --> 00:06:05,214 to $2,000 174 00:06:05,214 --> 00:06:08,014 annual dental benefit cap that is is very 175 00:06:08,014 --> 00:06:09,475 common in dental insurance. 176 00:06:09,935 --> 00:06:12,915 And that can lead people to delay or 177 00:06:13,214 --> 00:06:15,855 or even forego care altogether, which we're absolutely 178 00:06:15,855 --> 00:06:18,330 trying to avoid. And cost is the number 179 00:06:18,330 --> 00:06:19,069 one reason 180 00:06:19,449 --> 00:06:21,790 that people actually avoid dental visits. 181 00:06:22,490 --> 00:06:24,509 In fact, forty percent of adults 182 00:06:24,810 --> 00:06:26,830 in survey, I think, was from last year, 183 00:06:27,050 --> 00:06:29,530 identified that they had skipped dental care or 184 00:06:29,530 --> 00:06:31,694 routine checkups in the past year because they 185 00:06:31,694 --> 00:06:34,334 actually had financial concerns. So when we look 186 00:06:34,334 --> 00:06:35,394 at our results 187 00:06:36,334 --> 00:06:38,735 from our launch so far, we've seen a 188 00:06:38,735 --> 00:06:42,495 measurable increase in both preventive care usage and 189 00:06:42,495 --> 00:06:44,675 critical dental procedures as well. 190 00:06:45,529 --> 00:06:47,769 And also seeing really just, I think, good 191 00:06:47,769 --> 00:06:49,949 levels of engagement in the patient program 192 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:50,910 overall, 193 00:06:51,769 --> 00:06:52,269 across 194 00:06:52,569 --> 00:06:54,089 the clients that we have on the program 195 00:06:54,089 --> 00:06:54,589 currently. 196 00:06:55,529 --> 00:06:57,310 We've got a sign up rate of 197 00:06:57,774 --> 00:07:00,334 nearly 20 on average, so about 20% are 198 00:07:00,334 --> 00:07:02,834 actually signing up for the patient benefit. 199 00:07:03,615 --> 00:07:04,735 About 11% 200 00:07:04,735 --> 00:07:07,154 of the eligible employees are actually activating, 201 00:07:08,175 --> 00:07:08,834 the patient, 202 00:07:09,870 --> 00:07:10,689 Visa card. 203 00:07:12,270 --> 00:07:14,590 And nearly 70% of the people who activate 204 00:07:14,590 --> 00:07:16,670 the card are actually making transactions on the 205 00:07:16,670 --> 00:07:18,590 card. So we're we're seeing, first of all, 206 00:07:18,590 --> 00:07:20,990 people engaging with this with the with the 207 00:07:20,990 --> 00:07:23,230 solution and using it the way we we 208 00:07:23,230 --> 00:07:25,175 want them them to. And, actually, 209 00:07:25,634 --> 00:07:27,074 other data point that I think is actually 210 00:07:27,074 --> 00:07:28,995 really important is of the people that that 211 00:07:28,995 --> 00:07:30,915 had a transaction on the card, it wasn't 212 00:07:30,915 --> 00:07:31,894 a one and done 213 00:07:32,435 --> 00:07:35,555 thing. Ninety percent, of those people actually had 214 00:07:35,555 --> 00:07:37,794 a repeat transaction, so they were continuing to 215 00:07:37,794 --> 00:07:39,910 use it for ongoing care, which is really 216 00:07:39,910 --> 00:07:40,410 important. 217 00:07:41,110 --> 00:07:41,610 And 218 00:07:42,470 --> 00:07:44,490 from a from a just a care improvement 219 00:07:44,709 --> 00:07:45,209 perspective, 220 00:07:45,669 --> 00:07:47,529 among the users of the the patient, 221 00:07:47,909 --> 00:07:48,409 card, 222 00:07:48,789 --> 00:07:51,189 our data analysis that we did in conjunction 223 00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:54,089 with patient shows a measurable increase in both 224 00:07:54,564 --> 00:07:55,545 preventive care, 225 00:07:56,085 --> 00:07:57,605 as I mentioned, I think, and also critical 226 00:07:57,605 --> 00:07:58,504 dental procedures. 227 00:07:59,125 --> 00:08:02,085 And most frequently, that's things like fillings, crowns, 228 00:08:02,085 --> 00:08:04,185 and oral surgery, so the more expensive, 229 00:08:04,564 --> 00:08:06,824 procedures, which is what we were looking for. 230 00:08:08,110 --> 00:08:09,470 And this might be, kind of one of 231 00:08:09,470 --> 00:08:11,069 the the the stats that I was most 232 00:08:11,069 --> 00:08:13,330 encouraged by. We did a survey 233 00:08:13,710 --> 00:08:16,529 of SEGI customers who are using patient, and 234 00:08:16,590 --> 00:08:18,290 ninety three percent of them 235 00:08:18,750 --> 00:08:20,930 actually said they would have skipped care 236 00:08:21,324 --> 00:08:23,245 if they didn't have access to the patient 237 00:08:23,245 --> 00:08:25,645 card, which is, you know, exactly the type 238 00:08:25,645 --> 00:08:27,725 of behavior we were hoping to to to 239 00:08:27,725 --> 00:08:28,225 influence. 240 00:08:28,685 --> 00:08:30,605 So, you know, really encouraging, I think, in 241 00:08:30,605 --> 00:08:31,745 terms of early results. 242 00:08:32,524 --> 00:08:35,725 We're also seeing really high satisfaction with with 243 00:08:35,725 --> 00:08:36,705 the patient program. 244 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,480 We've got a net promoter score of 83, 245 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,160 which in, you know, the health care industry 246 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,080 is extra extremely high and, 4.9 247 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:45,980 out of five 248 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,519 rating on Trustpilot from all the reviews that 249 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:50,945 people actually posted online. So, you you know, 250 00:08:50,945 --> 00:08:53,585 across the board, actually quite encouraged by, by 251 00:08:53,585 --> 00:08:54,804 the results so far. 252 00:08:55,424 --> 00:08:57,184 Absolutely. So based off everything you just said, 253 00:08:57,184 --> 00:08:59,445 some of those numbers you cited there, Dave, 254 00:08:59,664 --> 00:09:02,625 this model is clearly demonstrating measurable increases in 255 00:09:02,625 --> 00:09:04,725 preventive and critical care utilization. 256 00:09:05,460 --> 00:09:06,980 So then I wonder, you know, how how 257 00:09:06,980 --> 00:09:08,660 do you see this driving long term cost 258 00:09:08,660 --> 00:09:10,600 savings for for both employers, 259 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:13,320 but also the health plan itself, especially, 260 00:09:13,860 --> 00:09:16,580 when considering the potential for earlier interventions and 261 00:09:16,580 --> 00:09:19,139 the scalability of this model for for smaller 262 00:09:19,139 --> 00:09:20,120 employers perhaps? 263 00:09:20,914 --> 00:09:22,514 Yeah. That's a great question. And that is 264 00:09:22,514 --> 00:09:23,334 really, you know, 265 00:09:23,714 --> 00:09:24,855 the heart of this because, 266 00:09:25,235 --> 00:09:27,875 you know, generally, the dollar saved now is 267 00:09:27,875 --> 00:09:29,634 is in prevent a dollar spent, I should 268 00:09:29,634 --> 00:09:31,735 say, in prevention now really does pay off. 269 00:09:32,195 --> 00:09:33,975 We looked at a lot of data points 270 00:09:34,115 --> 00:09:36,149 as we're launching this program to to exactly 271 00:09:36,149 --> 00:09:37,690 the point, Jacob, that you made. 272 00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:40,149 So preventive oral care really does play a 273 00:09:40,149 --> 00:09:42,870 crucial role in lowering health care costs over 274 00:09:42,870 --> 00:09:44,089 a person's lifetime. 275 00:09:44,709 --> 00:09:46,709 Studies show that for each dollar that people 276 00:09:46,709 --> 00:09:48,089 actually invest in 277 00:09:48,495 --> 00:09:51,695 oral care prevention can save somewhere between $8 278 00:09:51,695 --> 00:09:52,654 and $50 279 00:09:52,654 --> 00:09:54,914 in later restorative and emergency treatments. 280 00:09:55,455 --> 00:09:55,934 And, 281 00:09:57,934 --> 00:10:00,575 even more importantly, because the real dollars, let's 282 00:10:00,575 --> 00:10:02,580 be honest, are less so in the dental 283 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:04,820 space versus the broader medical, you know, world 284 00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:07,940 where things like, your hospital stays, inpatient costs, 285 00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:08,820 specialist costs, 286 00:10:09,860 --> 00:10:11,639 are significantly more expensive. 287 00:10:12,339 --> 00:10:14,899 There's a real cost savings opportunity there too 288 00:10:14,899 --> 00:10:16,600 and health improvement opportunity. 289 00:10:17,144 --> 00:10:19,144 If you look at the average medical cost 290 00:10:19,144 --> 00:10:20,285 savings for people 291 00:10:20,745 --> 00:10:24,125 who are consistently getting preventive dental maintenance, 292 00:10:24,665 --> 00:10:27,465 the the average cost savings there over time 293 00:10:27,465 --> 00:10:30,240 is actually just over 6%, which may sound 294 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,120 like a fairly modest number. When you look 295 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,500 at the dollars involved, 296 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,820 on medical care, you're talking about, you know, 297 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,899 huge dollars very, very, very quickly. 298 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,440 Yeah. No. That makes a lot of sense. 299 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,919 That it's the savings isn't necessarily coming from 300 00:10:44,919 --> 00:10:47,054 the dental space. So I think the the 301 00:10:47,054 --> 00:10:49,134 natural question there, Dave, is what is the 302 00:10:49,134 --> 00:10:52,095 potential for scaling this type of flexible payment 303 00:10:52,095 --> 00:10:55,235 model into other areas of health care, vision, 304 00:10:55,294 --> 00:10:56,514 behavioral health services? 305 00:10:57,294 --> 00:10:59,054 Ultimately, where do you kinda see the future 306 00:10:59,054 --> 00:10:59,954 of this going? 307 00:11:00,430 --> 00:11:02,190 Yeah. We we actually, that's the thing we 308 00:11:02,190 --> 00:11:03,710 spent a lot of time about talking with 309 00:11:03,710 --> 00:11:05,470 with patient, and some of our of our 310 00:11:05,470 --> 00:11:08,430 large employer clients. And we we initially focused 311 00:11:08,430 --> 00:11:09,170 on offering 312 00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:12,509 the patient solution to our Cigna Dental employer 313 00:11:12,509 --> 00:11:13,009 clients, 314 00:11:13,945 --> 00:11:15,625 and we kind of piloted it within with 315 00:11:15,625 --> 00:11:17,544 my within my team and our Cigna Dental 316 00:11:17,544 --> 00:11:20,424 business. But we quickly recognized that employers who 317 00:11:20,424 --> 00:11:22,184 were interested in this kind of program and 318 00:11:22,184 --> 00:11:23,164 would buy into, 319 00:11:23,784 --> 00:11:26,605 something like this would actually wanna offer this 320 00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:28,929 across their health care benefits, not just for 321 00:11:28,929 --> 00:11:30,389 dental. So across medical, 322 00:11:30,929 --> 00:11:33,029 pharmacy, behavioral health, vision, etcetera. 323 00:11:33,490 --> 00:11:36,209 While we started with Cigna dental clients in 324 00:11:36,209 --> 00:11:37,829 a dental only option, 325 00:11:38,370 --> 00:11:41,509 we've actually expanded this, and it's currently available, 326 00:11:42,134 --> 00:11:45,095 to employer clients either for a dental only 327 00:11:45,095 --> 00:11:46,154 option or 328 00:11:46,535 --> 00:11:49,254 across all their benefits. And not only that, 329 00:11:49,254 --> 00:11:51,975 but whether or not those other benefits, medical, 330 00:11:51,975 --> 00:11:53,754 pharmacy, etcetera, are with Cigna 331 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,240 or not. And and I think the the 332 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,480 reason for that is exactly what you just 333 00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,539 touched on, which is 334 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,039 while there are absolutely cost saving opportunities just 335 00:12:03,039 --> 00:12:05,700 specifically within the dental care space, 336 00:12:06,159 --> 00:12:08,019 the real health improvement opportunities 337 00:12:08,674 --> 00:12:11,315 and cost savings actually accrue more to the 338 00:12:11,315 --> 00:12:13,154 medical side if you could start with oral 339 00:12:13,154 --> 00:12:15,554 health care. So, yeah, we're excited about broadening 340 00:12:15,554 --> 00:12:17,154 this to more of our clients, including those 341 00:12:17,154 --> 00:12:18,914 that don't even have, you know, Cigna Medical 342 00:12:18,914 --> 00:12:19,654 or behavioral. 343 00:12:20,034 --> 00:12:22,754 And we are looking at, the potential to 344 00:12:22,754 --> 00:12:24,960 broaden this to even more of our clients, 345 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,620 specifically including those that are not currently Cigna 346 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:30,539 Dental clients. So I think there's a lot 347 00:12:30,539 --> 00:12:31,980 of upside here. And and and to your 348 00:12:31,980 --> 00:12:33,120 point, we we've already, 349 00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:36,379 kind of taken that first step to expand 350 00:12:36,379 --> 00:12:38,799 and scale this, beyond beyond dental. 351 00:12:40,195 --> 00:12:42,115 Absolutely. So it sounds like big things to 352 00:12:42,115 --> 00:12:42,934 come here. 353 00:12:43,875 --> 00:12:46,195 Dave, before we go, what else are we 354 00:12:46,195 --> 00:12:48,274 missing? You've got the attention of a lot 355 00:12:48,274 --> 00:12:50,195 of other health plan leaders from all over 356 00:12:50,195 --> 00:12:51,794 the country right now. What else do you 357 00:12:51,794 --> 00:12:53,634 wanna share with them on this topic, or 358 00:12:53,634 --> 00:12:55,409 is there any other final bits of advice 359 00:12:55,409 --> 00:12:56,309 that you would wanna 360 00:12:56,850 --> 00:12:58,870 share, while while we're on the call today? 361 00:12:59,169 --> 00:13:01,089 I think one thing I would highlight is 362 00:13:01,089 --> 00:13:01,589 that, 363 00:13:02,610 --> 00:13:04,529 which we didn't really talk about is while 364 00:13:04,529 --> 00:13:07,569 this has broad, potential, I think, the the 365 00:13:07,569 --> 00:13:09,750 approach of helping people 366 00:13:10,934 --> 00:13:13,014 use their benefits effectively and actually get the 367 00:13:13,014 --> 00:13:13,995 care they need, 368 00:13:14,295 --> 00:13:15,735 even if they have coverage, we should not 369 00:13:15,735 --> 00:13:17,654 assume that they can afford to use it. 370 00:13:17,654 --> 00:13:19,735 And the program like this does allow them 371 00:13:19,735 --> 00:13:21,735 to actually afford to use the benefits that 372 00:13:21,735 --> 00:13:22,634 they're paying for. 373 00:13:23,014 --> 00:13:23,915 And and in particular, 374 00:13:24,529 --> 00:13:26,690 you know, we've tried to figure out if 375 00:13:26,690 --> 00:13:28,929 there are employer clients we had that had 376 00:13:28,929 --> 00:13:29,910 employee demographics 377 00:13:30,370 --> 00:13:33,269 who could particularly benefit from something like patient. 378 00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:36,370 So for example, lower wage or hourly workers 379 00:13:36,370 --> 00:13:38,394 who might struggle to pay these kinds for 380 00:13:38,394 --> 00:13:40,954 these kinds of costs, employer clients who have 381 00:13:40,954 --> 00:13:41,695 high concentrations, 382 00:13:43,034 --> 00:13:45,995 of employees with social determinants of health challenges, 383 00:13:45,995 --> 00:13:47,214 that type of thing. And 384 00:13:47,514 --> 00:13:49,034 I should have actually mentioned this in terms 385 00:13:49,034 --> 00:13:50,394 of some of the results of the program, 386 00:13:50,394 --> 00:13:53,049 but we we were really, you know, hoping 387 00:13:53,049 --> 00:13:55,069 that we were going to see more people 388 00:13:55,529 --> 00:13:58,250 in communities that are facing even greater financial 389 00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:59,929 barriers take advantage of the program, but we 390 00:13:59,929 --> 00:14:02,809 weren't sure until we started this. Luckily, we 391 00:14:02,809 --> 00:14:04,589 did actually see exactly that. 392 00:14:05,105 --> 00:14:06,304 We're actually seeing, 393 00:14:06,784 --> 00:14:07,684 higher utilization 394 00:14:08,065 --> 00:14:08,565 amongst, 395 00:14:09,345 --> 00:14:12,004 individuals who have, you know, higher SDOH 396 00:14:12,304 --> 00:14:15,264 or SDI challenges than the general population. So 397 00:14:15,264 --> 00:14:17,105 I think in addition to everything we talked 398 00:14:17,105 --> 00:14:20,050 about, there's also a real opportunity to support 399 00:14:20,050 --> 00:14:20,550 diverse 400 00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:23,190 populations and kind of disproportionately 401 00:14:23,649 --> 00:14:25,730 provide assistance to people who struggle even more 402 00:14:25,730 --> 00:14:27,269 with with the cost of care. 403 00:14:28,050 --> 00:14:29,809 Yeah. No. That's a great last call out 404 00:14:29,809 --> 00:14:31,889 there, Dave, that so far this model is 405 00:14:31,889 --> 00:14:32,389 really, 406 00:14:32,975 --> 00:14:35,375 helping a lot more people who are living 407 00:14:35,375 --> 00:14:38,014 in underserved communities. So I really appreciate you 408 00:14:38,014 --> 00:14:39,375 you hooking that on there. 409 00:14:39,855 --> 00:14:42,414 And and overall, thank wanna thank you for 410 00:14:42,414 --> 00:14:44,014 taking the time to chat with us on 411 00:14:44,014 --> 00:14:46,350 the podcast. We we really appreciate it. My 412 00:14:46,350 --> 00:14:47,870 pleasure. Great to talk to you, Jacob. Thank 413 00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:50,450 you. You as well. And to our listeners, 414 00:14:50,509 --> 00:14:52,110 if you'd like to listen to more podcasts 415 00:14:52,110 --> 00:14:55,730 from Becker's Healthcare, you can visit beckershospitalreview.com.