1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,000 Hello, everyone. This is Jacob Emerson with the 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,779 Becker's Payer Issues podcast. 3 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,240 Thrilled today to be joined by Bill Harlan, 4 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,160 who's the vice president of behavioral health and 5 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,880 health engagement at Point thirty two Health. Bill, 6 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,320 thanks so much for taking the time to 7 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,264 be with me on the podcast today. Hey, 8 00:00:14,264 --> 00:00:16,585 Jacob. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And before 9 00:00:16,585 --> 00:00:18,105 we dive into everything we wanna talk with 10 00:00:18,105 --> 00:00:19,864 you about, Bill, can you tell us a 11 00:00:19,864 --> 00:00:22,265 little bit more about yourself, your background in 12 00:00:22,265 --> 00:00:23,785 health care, and what it is that you're 13 00:00:23,785 --> 00:00:25,884 doing today at point thirty two Health? 14 00:00:26,350 --> 00:00:29,329 Yeah. Happy to and, excited for the opportunity 15 00:00:29,630 --> 00:00:31,550 to talk with you today. So thank you 16 00:00:31,550 --> 00:00:32,049 for, 17 00:00:32,670 --> 00:00:33,649 letting us on. 18 00:00:34,109 --> 00:00:37,170 So I am a licensed mental health counselor 19 00:00:37,390 --> 00:00:38,049 by background. 20 00:00:39,390 --> 00:00:39,890 I 21 00:00:40,365 --> 00:00:41,905 spent a lot of my career, 22 00:00:42,844 --> 00:00:43,905 as a clinician, 23 00:00:44,604 --> 00:00:47,664 worked with at risk youth in residential placements, 24 00:00:47,804 --> 00:00:48,704 worked at outpatient 25 00:00:49,325 --> 00:00:51,505 therapy clinics, worked with veterans. 26 00:00:52,204 --> 00:00:52,704 And, 27 00:00:53,564 --> 00:00:55,164 I've been in the managed care space the 28 00:00:55,164 --> 00:00:55,914 past fourteen 29 00:00:56,659 --> 00:00:57,799 or so years, 30 00:00:58,340 --> 00:01:01,399 most of which I spent at Carillon, formerly 31 00:01:01,539 --> 00:01:02,759 Beacon Health Options, 32 00:01:03,619 --> 00:01:06,119 worked in various markets supporting clinical 33 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:06,920 implementation, 34 00:01:07,619 --> 00:01:08,119 operational 35 00:01:08,420 --> 00:01:08,920 support. 36 00:01:09,665 --> 00:01:10,325 And currently, 37 00:01:10,864 --> 00:01:13,665 I serve as vice president of behavioral health 38 00:01:13,665 --> 00:01:16,325 and health engagement at point three two Health, 39 00:01:16,465 --> 00:01:18,805 the parent company of Harbor Pilgrim. 40 00:01:20,145 --> 00:01:22,625 Fantastic. Paul, like I said, we really appreciate 41 00:01:22,625 --> 00:01:24,145 you taking the time to be on with 42 00:01:24,145 --> 00:01:26,189 us, for sharing your expertise with our listeners 43 00:01:26,189 --> 00:01:27,650 and just get a feel for, 44 00:01:28,109 --> 00:01:29,630 how you're thinking about the industry right now 45 00:01:29,630 --> 00:01:31,469 and what's going on with your membership at 46 00:01:31,469 --> 00:01:32,689 point thirty two Health. 47 00:01:33,549 --> 00:01:35,549 You know, obviously, as you know, the demand 48 00:01:35,549 --> 00:01:38,829 for behavioral health services continues to outpace supply. 49 00:01:38,829 --> 00:01:41,515 It's something that we consistently hear about from 50 00:01:41,515 --> 00:01:43,915 pretty much every insurer across the country at 51 00:01:43,915 --> 00:01:45,375 this point, and certainly 52 00:01:45,674 --> 00:01:48,155 these last few months. And then that really 53 00:01:48,155 --> 00:01:51,355 seems to be especially true for youth and 54 00:01:51,355 --> 00:01:54,415 for people living in rural communities. So 55 00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:57,709 from your vantage point, both from your career 56 00:01:57,709 --> 00:01:59,170 expertise, but now sitting 57 00:01:59,469 --> 00:02:01,490 at point thirty two Health and Harvard Pilgrim, 58 00:02:01,709 --> 00:02:03,390 what are some of the strategies you all 59 00:02:03,390 --> 00:02:05,230 are employing right now that you're finding that 60 00:02:05,230 --> 00:02:07,549 are are most effective to close these access 61 00:02:07,549 --> 00:02:10,254 gaps while still maintaining that high quality of 62 00:02:10,254 --> 00:02:12,734 care you're always striving for? That's a great 63 00:02:12,734 --> 00:02:14,574 it's a great question and something that I 64 00:02:14,574 --> 00:02:15,234 think we're 65 00:02:15,694 --> 00:02:17,294 is top of mind for us. 66 00:02:17,775 --> 00:02:18,275 And 67 00:02:18,655 --> 00:02:20,894 I think any anybody, as you mentioned, who 68 00:02:20,894 --> 00:02:22,894 has been following the behavioral health space, it's 69 00:02:22,894 --> 00:02:23,715 been an unprecedented 70 00:02:24,270 --> 00:02:25,330 past five years. 71 00:02:26,509 --> 00:02:27,250 The demand, 72 00:02:28,590 --> 00:02:31,389 we continue to see, we continue to see 73 00:02:31,389 --> 00:02:32,449 net new consumers, 74 00:02:33,469 --> 00:02:35,009 entering behavioral health, 75 00:02:35,949 --> 00:02:37,169 working with new providers. 76 00:02:38,745 --> 00:02:40,745 And we continue to see high rates of 77 00:02:40,745 --> 00:02:43,625 depression, anxiety. And as you mentioned, particularly amongst 78 00:02:43,625 --> 00:02:44,365 young people, 79 00:02:45,224 --> 00:02:46,525 substance use still, 80 00:02:46,985 --> 00:02:47,885 is is a 81 00:02:48,344 --> 00:02:51,639 need of support that remains. So we also 82 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,039 are hearing from provider partners that we work 83 00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:56,139 with that they're faced with workforce challenges, 84 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,099 pipeline planning, clinician burnouts, 85 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:01,099 and a lot of that is leaving 86 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,739 many clinicians to leave the field altogether. 87 00:03:05,104 --> 00:03:08,544 This has resulted in fewer clinicians to meet 88 00:03:08,544 --> 00:03:10,484 this growing demand and has 89 00:03:10,784 --> 00:03:13,604 created this perfect storm in a way of 90 00:03:13,664 --> 00:03:15,764 longer wait times to access to care, 91 00:03:16,384 --> 00:03:17,549 that we're still finding ourself 92 00:03:18,009 --> 00:03:18,829 in today, 93 00:03:19,530 --> 00:03:20,829 even five years, 94 00:03:21,209 --> 00:03:22,269 since the pandemic. 95 00:03:23,849 --> 00:03:25,849 So we as as a as a payer 96 00:03:25,849 --> 00:03:27,610 looked at what what are some pieces we 97 00:03:27,610 --> 00:03:29,870 could do to address access. And, 98 00:03:30,254 --> 00:03:31,155 you know, sometimes 99 00:03:31,694 --> 00:03:32,254 the most, 100 00:03:32,814 --> 00:03:34,814 innovative piece we can do is not the 101 00:03:34,814 --> 00:03:36,915 most complicated. We needed to put, 102 00:03:37,694 --> 00:03:40,175 a human touch to the experience, and we 103 00:03:40,175 --> 00:03:43,490 heard feedback very clearly that people looking for 104 00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:45,110 treatment are are often overwhelmed. 105 00:03:46,129 --> 00:03:49,189 And it's hard to get a callback from, 106 00:03:49,810 --> 00:03:51,510 a a clinician or to understand 107 00:03:51,969 --> 00:03:53,189 what types of treatment 108 00:03:53,729 --> 00:03:55,430 are are out there and 109 00:03:56,344 --> 00:03:58,844 if there are alternative ways to 110 00:03:59,145 --> 00:04:01,884 seek treatment that may be not the traditional 111 00:04:02,344 --> 00:04:03,485 in person where 112 00:04:03,784 --> 00:04:05,705 one would have to drive to a place 113 00:04:05,705 --> 00:04:09,724 particularly if there's transportation concerns. So we started 114 00:04:09,865 --> 00:04:10,844 a new program, 115 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:14,780 at our behavioral health service navigation program. 116 00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:19,160 And what this really does is we have 117 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:20,620 a locally based, 118 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,699 team of service navigators, 119 00:04:23,959 --> 00:04:26,139 who do incredible work that 120 00:04:26,665 --> 00:04:29,305 works directly with members who outreach to us 121 00:04:29,305 --> 00:04:30,205 looking for, 122 00:04:30,745 --> 00:04:31,725 clinical support 123 00:04:32,425 --> 00:04:32,925 and 124 00:04:33,305 --> 00:04:35,944 work with that member to really understand what 125 00:04:35,944 --> 00:04:38,584 is it that they are looking for. Is 126 00:04:38,584 --> 00:04:41,430 there a specialty that's in need? Is there 127 00:04:41,430 --> 00:04:43,370 a language or gender or cultural, 128 00:04:44,069 --> 00:04:46,550 match that we can help identify within our 129 00:04:46,550 --> 00:04:47,050 network? 130 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:50,870 And are they looking for in person or 131 00:04:50,870 --> 00:04:52,730 or remote or a digital experience? 132 00:04:54,345 --> 00:04:56,745 And what we find is that when we 133 00:04:56,745 --> 00:04:59,145 can take the time to dissect what is 134 00:04:59,145 --> 00:04:59,645 the, 135 00:05:00,504 --> 00:05:03,225 need a person is looking for, we can 136 00:05:03,225 --> 00:05:06,205 more often than not connect them to a 137 00:05:06,904 --> 00:05:09,324 therapist or a behavioral health provider 138 00:05:09,889 --> 00:05:11,350 in in pretty short order, 139 00:05:12,290 --> 00:05:13,430 in most cases, 140 00:05:14,449 --> 00:05:17,009 depending upon the type of specialty and type 141 00:05:17,009 --> 00:05:18,709 of service. But in most cases, 142 00:05:19,009 --> 00:05:21,649 we can, secure an appointment for our members 143 00:05:21,649 --> 00:05:23,844 within a week of them contacting with us. 144 00:05:23,844 --> 00:05:25,844 That's from the day they called to the 145 00:05:25,844 --> 00:05:27,064 date of the first appointment, 146 00:05:27,925 --> 00:05:29,144 which shocked 147 00:05:29,604 --> 00:05:30,985 all of us, honestly, 148 00:05:31,764 --> 00:05:34,584 and we were really excited by that result. 149 00:05:35,599 --> 00:05:37,759 Another piece is that it's an opportunity for 150 00:05:37,759 --> 00:05:38,979 us to have a conversation 151 00:05:39,519 --> 00:05:40,019 with, 152 00:05:40,399 --> 00:05:42,419 one of our members that might need additional 153 00:05:42,479 --> 00:05:42,979 support 154 00:05:43,519 --> 00:05:46,419 if there is a need for more social, 155 00:05:47,774 --> 00:05:50,735 social supports that our community health worker team 156 00:05:50,735 --> 00:05:51,795 can assist with, 157 00:05:52,334 --> 00:05:54,654 if there is a transportation or housing or 158 00:05:54,654 --> 00:05:55,314 food insecurity 159 00:05:55,694 --> 00:05:57,154 need, we can then 160 00:05:57,455 --> 00:05:59,235 engage that member more broadly 161 00:05:59,870 --> 00:06:02,110 and help work with on the total picture 162 00:06:02,110 --> 00:06:04,209 of what might be a barrier to care. 163 00:06:04,669 --> 00:06:05,169 And 164 00:06:05,629 --> 00:06:07,709 other pieces that have have worked out really 165 00:06:07,709 --> 00:06:10,269 well for us is if the member is 166 00:06:10,269 --> 00:06:11,569 is looking for a virtual, 167 00:06:12,349 --> 00:06:13,970 clinician or open to telehealth, 168 00:06:14,735 --> 00:06:16,354 we've partnered with a few, 169 00:06:16,814 --> 00:06:19,615 providers that allow us to schedule on the 170 00:06:19,615 --> 00:06:22,034 member's behalf so we can give the member 171 00:06:22,095 --> 00:06:24,574 an appointment live on the phone when they're 172 00:06:24,574 --> 00:06:26,254 calling us so that they get that in 173 00:06:26,254 --> 00:06:26,995 real time. 174 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:29,620 Another piece to it is we follow-up with 175 00:06:29,620 --> 00:06:32,199 every member that works with us to confirm 176 00:06:32,419 --> 00:06:33,240 how it went, 177 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:35,240 if it was the right fit. 178 00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:36,919 And if it wasn't, 179 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:39,000 we continue that 180 00:06:39,539 --> 00:06:41,620 journey with the member to find them the 181 00:06:41,620 --> 00:06:42,360 right clinician. 182 00:06:43,555 --> 00:06:45,254 And because of that, the other 183 00:06:45,634 --> 00:06:47,954 outcome that, again, surprised a lot of us, 184 00:06:47,954 --> 00:06:50,294 but in a good way, ninety nine percent 185 00:06:50,595 --> 00:06:52,595 of the members we work with in this 186 00:06:52,595 --> 00:06:53,095 program 187 00:06:53,474 --> 00:06:56,354 report being satisfied with the with the behavioral 188 00:06:56,354 --> 00:06:58,294 health provider that they got matched with. 189 00:06:58,970 --> 00:07:00,970 So we're really proud of of that work, 190 00:07:00,970 --> 00:07:03,470 and the team that does this work particularly 191 00:07:03,689 --> 00:07:06,029 is is does such a great job. 192 00:07:06,970 --> 00:07:08,990 The it's part of our local, 193 00:07:10,089 --> 00:07:13,785 neighbor helping neighbor approach that we believe helps 194 00:07:13,785 --> 00:07:14,925 enable us to, 195 00:07:15,865 --> 00:07:18,185 find that right match. And the last piece 196 00:07:18,185 --> 00:07:19,785 I'll say to this is that we've also 197 00:07:19,785 --> 00:07:21,625 had to have a network that can support 198 00:07:21,625 --> 00:07:24,204 this work. So we were happy to add 199 00:07:24,345 --> 00:07:25,724 about 30,000 200 00:07:26,584 --> 00:07:27,245 new providers 201 00:07:27,670 --> 00:07:29,290 in the past year alone. 202 00:07:29,990 --> 00:07:32,389 And that has been an enabler for us 203 00:07:32,389 --> 00:07:36,150 to help give members choice and help increase 204 00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:37,210 access to care. 205 00:07:38,069 --> 00:07:39,589 Wow. I mean, just that last part of 206 00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:41,210 what you said, adding 30,000 207 00:07:41,350 --> 00:07:43,824 providers to that network in one year, I 208 00:07:43,824 --> 00:07:46,305 can't imagine just the the what it took 209 00:07:46,305 --> 00:07:48,805 logistically to undertake something like that. 210 00:07:49,345 --> 00:07:51,345 Lot of lot of time and a lot 211 00:07:51,345 --> 00:07:53,685 of great hard work. And, 212 00:07:54,064 --> 00:07:55,824 oh, it it was it was off of, 213 00:07:56,224 --> 00:07:58,139 we we in source behavioral health 214 00:07:58,699 --> 00:08:01,340 most as as partly a response that we 215 00:08:01,340 --> 00:08:03,360 knew we needed to be closer to 216 00:08:03,740 --> 00:08:06,639 the behavioral health care overall. And, 217 00:08:07,819 --> 00:08:09,920 this has also allowed us to 218 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:13,335 work with providers more closely so that we 219 00:08:13,335 --> 00:08:15,975 can have conversations about problems they're trying to 220 00:08:15,975 --> 00:08:18,615 solve and then problems we're trying to solve. 221 00:08:19,254 --> 00:08:21,814 And more often than not, many providers are 222 00:08:21,814 --> 00:08:22,795 are very happy, 223 00:08:23,654 --> 00:08:26,730 to receive referrals from us. And so we 224 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:29,889 we've taken that approach. Yeah. You know, one 225 00:08:29,889 --> 00:08:31,830 thing when we've talking to individuals, 226 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:34,850 your colleagues across the country serving in similar 227 00:08:34,850 --> 00:08:35,910 positions, Bill, 228 00:08:36,769 --> 00:08:40,024 virtual behavioral health access has really been key 229 00:08:40,024 --> 00:08:41,965 to, really building access, 230 00:08:42,345 --> 00:08:44,264 for their members. And that's obviously, as you 231 00:08:44,264 --> 00:08:46,264 know, something that's really grown rapidly these last 232 00:08:46,264 --> 00:08:48,605 few years, especially post pandemic. So 233 00:08:49,065 --> 00:08:51,225 when we are talking about these these types 234 00:08:51,225 --> 00:08:52,045 of initiatives, 235 00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:55,519 where we do hear about headwinds is engagement, 236 00:08:55,980 --> 00:08:56,960 long term outcomes, 237 00:08:57,820 --> 00:09:00,160 integration with in person primary care. 238 00:09:00,539 --> 00:09:02,139 So talk to us a little bit about 239 00:09:02,139 --> 00:09:04,299 those things from from your perspective of where 240 00:09:04,299 --> 00:09:06,705 you sit. How do you see your virtual 241 00:09:06,705 --> 00:09:08,785 and hybrid models evolving to meet some of 242 00:09:08,785 --> 00:09:09,605 these concerns? 243 00:09:10,865 --> 00:09:13,665 Absolutely. And, again, as most, you know, listeners 244 00:09:13,665 --> 00:09:15,665 probably know behavioral health, I would say, is 245 00:09:15,665 --> 00:09:17,904 what was one of the first disciplines to 246 00:09:17,904 --> 00:09:19,045 adopt the 247 00:09:19,779 --> 00:09:20,920 telehealth model, 248 00:09:21,299 --> 00:09:22,200 the the fastest 249 00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:23,059 post, 250 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:25,000 the pandemic, and 251 00:09:25,379 --> 00:09:25,879 that 252 00:09:26,420 --> 00:09:28,519 enabled the workforce to 253 00:09:29,139 --> 00:09:31,059 relook at how we can deliver care in 254 00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:33,240 a different way. So now that we are 255 00:09:33,934 --> 00:09:35,554 further away from the pandemic, 256 00:09:36,174 --> 00:09:38,514 what we're finding is that virtual care 257 00:09:38,894 --> 00:09:42,674 is also a enabler for us to increase, 258 00:09:43,375 --> 00:09:45,554 care access to care at like you mentioned. 259 00:09:46,690 --> 00:09:48,769 One of the pieces that we're seeing and 260 00:09:48,769 --> 00:09:51,250 as we look at claims data, we're finding 261 00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:53,350 that there is a desire, 262 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:56,710 for more of a hybrid approach where, 263 00:09:57,810 --> 00:10:00,210 someone may choose to go in person and 264 00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:01,835 then have the option for 265 00:10:02,215 --> 00:10:02,715 a 266 00:10:03,095 --> 00:10:03,835 virtual experience, 267 00:10:05,095 --> 00:10:06,774 as they as they move forward. And that's 268 00:10:06,774 --> 00:10:08,934 been gaining popularity and something we hear about 269 00:10:08,934 --> 00:10:11,835 from both our providers and our members. 270 00:10:12,774 --> 00:10:14,855 I I think the pieces you raise about 271 00:10:14,855 --> 00:10:17,035 engagement and outcomes are important. 272 00:10:17,870 --> 00:10:20,110 And I I think a couple of pieces 273 00:10:20,110 --> 00:10:21,490 that we see on this, 274 00:10:22,190 --> 00:10:24,370 we see convenience and flexibility 275 00:10:24,990 --> 00:10:25,730 is really 276 00:10:26,110 --> 00:10:27,809 hand in hand with engagement. 277 00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:31,149 If we can't make it simple and easy 278 00:10:31,149 --> 00:10:32,850 for folks to access care, 279 00:10:33,804 --> 00:10:36,605 they are more likely to continue to receive 280 00:10:36,605 --> 00:10:37,105 treatment, 281 00:10:37,725 --> 00:10:38,225 and, 282 00:10:38,605 --> 00:10:39,664 improve their outcomes 283 00:10:40,205 --> 00:10:42,044 if we can remove the barriers in in 284 00:10:42,044 --> 00:10:42,865 doing so. 285 00:10:43,245 --> 00:10:45,504 So we we really see the experience 286 00:10:46,044 --> 00:10:47,184 connected together. 287 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,779 And we hear often from members that having 288 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,860 alternative options to, 289 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,680 an in person where every situation is different 290 00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:59,240 and there may be clinical reasons that in 291 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,220 person or virtual, 292 00:11:01,115 --> 00:11:03,434 may or may not be supported. Overall, I 293 00:11:03,434 --> 00:11:05,934 think we do hear overwhelming feedback that, 294 00:11:06,394 --> 00:11:07,615 having the flexibility 295 00:11:07,995 --> 00:11:08,575 to schedule 296 00:11:09,034 --> 00:11:11,214 and removing some of the barriers, 297 00:11:12,554 --> 00:11:14,975 ensures people continue on in their care. 298 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,459 This also, what you mentioned with 299 00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:19,539 integration with primary care, 300 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,399 the theme we hear constantly from our primary 301 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:23,220 care offices 302 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,259 who work with our members for referrals 303 00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:28,720 is they're looking for ways to streamline the 304 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:29,220 process 305 00:11:29,664 --> 00:11:30,965 in an often very, 306 00:11:32,304 --> 00:11:33,664 busy and and and, 307 00:11:34,304 --> 00:11:34,804 overwhelmed 308 00:11:35,264 --> 00:11:38,725 office. So virtual providers and some digital solutions 309 00:11:38,865 --> 00:11:39,365 do 310 00:11:39,825 --> 00:11:40,965 at at times offer, 311 00:11:41,664 --> 00:11:42,965 a way for that 312 00:11:43,660 --> 00:11:45,040 process to be streamlined 313 00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:47,840 and that we can also offer that convenience 314 00:11:47,980 --> 00:11:50,000 for primary care offices as well. 315 00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:51,899 And I and I think the other piece 316 00:11:51,899 --> 00:11:53,899 with this as we look at long term 317 00:11:53,899 --> 00:11:55,120 outcomes is recognizing 318 00:11:55,420 --> 00:11:57,500 that all of our members and their treatment 319 00:11:57,500 --> 00:11:58,480 needs are different. 320 00:11:58,995 --> 00:11:59,495 And 321 00:11:59,875 --> 00:12:01,955 for what what what may work for one 322 00:12:01,955 --> 00:12:03,955 member may not be the right option for 323 00:12:03,955 --> 00:12:04,455 everyone. 324 00:12:05,394 --> 00:12:08,615 What we do know is that clinical rapport, 325 00:12:08,914 --> 00:12:12,035 the relationship that's developed in treatment continues to 326 00:12:12,035 --> 00:12:14,054 be one of the top predictors of successful 327 00:12:14,829 --> 00:12:15,329 outcomes. 328 00:12:15,629 --> 00:12:18,289 And what we hear is that, 329 00:12:19,230 --> 00:12:21,169 members who have an option to 330 00:12:21,549 --> 00:12:22,529 have in person, 331 00:12:23,309 --> 00:12:26,129 sessions and have the convenience of going virtual, 332 00:12:26,909 --> 00:12:28,350 seems to hit a sweet spot for a 333 00:12:28,350 --> 00:12:29,250 lot of people, 334 00:12:29,865 --> 00:12:32,264 so that they can develop that rapport and 335 00:12:32,264 --> 00:12:34,205 then, continue on, 336 00:12:34,585 --> 00:12:35,085 virtually. 337 00:12:36,424 --> 00:12:38,665 I think the other piece on this is 338 00:12:38,665 --> 00:12:41,485 that we know for a long time, 339 00:12:42,745 --> 00:12:45,600 outpatient therapy often involves homework assignments. And I 340 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,539 can remember when I was working, 341 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,899 you know, with, with with with with veterans 342 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,100 and we would give assignments. 343 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,519 Now there are digital tools and apps that 344 00:12:57,519 --> 00:12:58,004 both 345 00:12:58,565 --> 00:13:01,684 brick and mortar and virtual providers have ways 346 00:13:01,684 --> 00:13:03,065 to use and deploy. 347 00:13:03,764 --> 00:13:05,684 And what we hear is that that really 348 00:13:05,684 --> 00:13:06,664 helps give, 349 00:13:07,605 --> 00:13:10,919 a better indication of engagement and are are 350 00:13:10,919 --> 00:13:11,659 their clients, 351 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:13,980 doing the skills? Are they tracking 352 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,179 their mood? 353 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,279 And is that intervention working? And can they 354 00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:21,399 use an assessment to really understand if the 355 00:13:21,399 --> 00:13:24,220 treatment intervention is having the desired outcome? 356 00:13:24,554 --> 00:13:26,475 So I I really think that all of 357 00:13:26,475 --> 00:13:27,294 this together, 358 00:13:27,914 --> 00:13:30,315 looking at the different modalities we have to 359 00:13:30,315 --> 00:13:33,514 deliver care, the digital tools that people have 360 00:13:33,514 --> 00:13:34,495 at their disposal, 361 00:13:35,274 --> 00:13:36,894 it's something we need to embrace. 362 00:13:37,409 --> 00:13:39,909 And it also means we have to prioritize, 363 00:13:40,850 --> 00:13:43,250 our members' choice and what kind of care 364 00:13:43,250 --> 00:13:45,190 they're looking for. And then as a payer, 365 00:13:45,970 --> 00:13:47,649 working for our members to give them the 366 00:13:47,649 --> 00:13:50,129 options to choose of what would work for 367 00:13:50,129 --> 00:13:50,289 their, 368 00:13:51,595 --> 00:13:54,315 for their situation and for people that have 369 00:13:54,315 --> 00:13:55,514 very demanding and, 370 00:13:55,995 --> 00:13:58,794 work hours. And then nine to the appointment 371 00:13:58,794 --> 00:14:01,455 windows offered may not work for everyone. So, 372 00:14:01,754 --> 00:14:03,375 we see it really as an integral. 373 00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:06,070 Absolutely. No. That all makes a lot of 374 00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:07,589 sense. And I I wanna circle back to 375 00:14:07,589 --> 00:14:10,149 one thing you you mentioned about how digital 376 00:14:10,149 --> 00:14:11,990 solutions are a key piece of of all 377 00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:13,190 of this, and that's something that a lot 378 00:14:13,190 --> 00:14:15,929 of your provider partners are really looking for. 379 00:14:16,549 --> 00:14:19,054 So on on the hard news front, Bill, 380 00:14:19,274 --> 00:14:22,095 you all recently announced a collaboration with MaruHealth. 381 00:14:23,115 --> 00:14:24,475 Can you talk to us a little bit 382 00:14:24,475 --> 00:14:25,995 about this, the nuts and bolts here, and 383 00:14:25,995 --> 00:14:29,434 how you envision this this partnership complementing your 384 00:14:29,434 --> 00:14:31,215 existing behavioral health network? 385 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:32,860 Absolutely. 386 00:14:33,959 --> 00:14:36,379 And we're really excited about our, 387 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,799 our working with Meru and the work that, 388 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,579 we're gonna hope to, 389 00:14:42,199 --> 00:14:43,579 do together moving forward. 390 00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:46,455 I I think a piece of what drew 391 00:14:46,455 --> 00:14:48,695 us to Meru was how it connects into 392 00:14:48,695 --> 00:14:50,774 our mission, which is looking at whole person 393 00:14:50,774 --> 00:14:51,274 care, 394 00:14:52,055 --> 00:14:52,555 focusing, 395 00:14:53,495 --> 00:14:56,295 on not just a specific illness, but the 396 00:14:56,295 --> 00:14:56,795 overall, 397 00:14:57,735 --> 00:14:58,235 well-being, 398 00:14:58,695 --> 00:15:01,754 physical health, emotional health, social needs. 399 00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:04,740 And the Meru model really fit into that 400 00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,860 nicely for us. And we know that there's 401 00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:10,039 such a correlation and we see it frequently 402 00:15:10,339 --> 00:15:12,659 with members that are having the most severe 403 00:15:12,659 --> 00:15:15,159 struggles that physical health and mental health 404 00:15:15,539 --> 00:15:17,480 are so interconnected and 405 00:15:18,154 --> 00:15:21,115 success in one domain can't really be considered 406 00:15:21,115 --> 00:15:22,654 without looking at both. So, 407 00:15:23,835 --> 00:15:26,554 looking at the MAIRU program, we also saw 408 00:15:26,554 --> 00:15:27,855 an opportunity to 409 00:15:28,235 --> 00:15:29,455 partner with a digital, 410 00:15:30,075 --> 00:15:30,575 provider 411 00:15:30,955 --> 00:15:33,054 that has a clinically validated 412 00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:34,649 and therapist led, 413 00:15:36,809 --> 00:15:37,790 digital program. 414 00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:41,070 And this program is gonna be 415 00:15:41,769 --> 00:15:44,490 open to Harvard Pilgrim members. It's a twelve 416 00:15:44,490 --> 00:15:44,990 week, 417 00:15:45,690 --> 00:15:46,910 intensive digital, 418 00:15:47,529 --> 00:15:49,964 experience through a mobile app, 419 00:15:50,444 --> 00:15:53,345 and it is based in evidence based care 420 00:15:53,404 --> 00:15:56,384 that helps with a range of conditions including 421 00:15:56,764 --> 00:15:57,985 depression and anxiety, 422 00:15:58,605 --> 00:16:01,105 also supportive of emotional considerations 423 00:16:01,644 --> 00:16:05,269 like work workplace burnout, caregiver stress, and lifestyle 424 00:16:05,490 --> 00:16:05,990 changes. 425 00:16:07,169 --> 00:16:10,289 What particularly is important to us, was the 426 00:16:10,289 --> 00:16:11,330 clinician led, 427 00:16:11,809 --> 00:16:12,309 distinction. 428 00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:17,925 This this program allows members to schedule one 429 00:16:17,925 --> 00:16:19,705 to one video therapy sessions 430 00:16:20,325 --> 00:16:22,184 as they go along in the program, 431 00:16:22,805 --> 00:16:25,384 so that a member who might want additional 432 00:16:25,605 --> 00:16:28,565 support, supported by a clinician as you would 433 00:16:28,565 --> 00:16:30,904 in traditional outpatient therapist, that's available 434 00:16:31,445 --> 00:16:32,825 for a member that 435 00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:35,500 is interested in learning some new skills and 436 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,899 can put that to use and then use 437 00:16:37,899 --> 00:16:39,600 some of the peer support groups 438 00:16:40,139 --> 00:16:42,000 or work with some of the wearable, 439 00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:43,600 heart rate 440 00:16:44,139 --> 00:16:44,639 variability 441 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:46,799 device for real time feedback 442 00:16:47,165 --> 00:16:49,425 can be, worked in there as well. 443 00:16:50,285 --> 00:16:53,264 Also, the modules that are tailored for adolescents, 444 00:16:54,365 --> 00:16:57,004 along with the appropriate type of continent structure 445 00:16:57,004 --> 00:16:58,225 for those age specific, 446 00:16:58,764 --> 00:17:01,700 needs was also a piece that was exciting 447 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:03,519 for us as we wanna make sure we 448 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:04,019 have, 449 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:06,099 expanded options for, 450 00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:08,259 for all of our members. So, 451 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,400 we we are really excited to work with 452 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,640 them. We feel it complements our our total 453 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:13,140 portfolio 454 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:14,099 of 455 00:17:14,605 --> 00:17:17,164 behavioral health solutions for members in an area 456 00:17:17,164 --> 00:17:18,704 that we are hearing a lot of feedback 457 00:17:19,005 --> 00:17:23,005 of looking for digital solutions that, also give 458 00:17:23,005 --> 00:17:23,505 flexibility, 459 00:17:24,444 --> 00:17:26,880 and also can be accessed very quickly. 460 00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:30,619 Care can be available in as little as 461 00:17:30,619 --> 00:17:32,000 about two business days, 462 00:17:33,099 --> 00:17:35,980 and it also continues to support our whole 463 00:17:35,980 --> 00:17:37,519 person health strategy, 464 00:17:38,380 --> 00:17:38,880 integrating 465 00:17:39,345 --> 00:17:42,724 lifestyle tools like nutrition and sleep and mindfulness 466 00:17:42,865 --> 00:17:44,005 and emotional regulation. 467 00:17:45,105 --> 00:17:47,825 And we're confident this program is gonna be, 468 00:17:48,384 --> 00:17:50,384 a a value add for our members and, 469 00:17:50,384 --> 00:17:52,065 you know, working to we're excited about the 470 00:17:52,065 --> 00:17:52,565 partnership. 471 00:17:53,470 --> 00:17:55,389 Wonderful. Well, appreciate you filling us in on 472 00:17:55,389 --> 00:17:58,190 what this partnership with Meru Health means for 473 00:17:58,190 --> 00:18:01,069 your members. Before we go, Bill, what else 474 00:18:01,069 --> 00:18:02,750 are we missing? Any other final bits of 475 00:18:02,750 --> 00:18:05,149 advice you wanna share with the other industry 476 00:18:05,149 --> 00:18:06,609 leaders listening in? 477 00:18:07,705 --> 00:18:08,205 Yeah. 478 00:18:09,865 --> 00:18:11,945 I I I hope I hope everybody is, 479 00:18:12,265 --> 00:18:13,805 you know, taking care of themselves. 480 00:18:14,265 --> 00:18:16,105 That's the first piece I think as as 481 00:18:16,105 --> 00:18:17,485 leaders in this area. 482 00:18:18,345 --> 00:18:19,404 We're in an unprecedented 483 00:18:19,785 --> 00:18:22,529 time, and, you know, I think we're in 484 00:18:22,529 --> 00:18:25,490 a moment that is exciting. If you've been 485 00:18:25,490 --> 00:18:27,570 in behavioral health like I have for most 486 00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:28,309 of your career, 487 00:18:29,170 --> 00:18:30,289 there is certainly an 488 00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:32,789 a a a piece that is, 489 00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:36,565 validating in that we have always known behavioral 490 00:18:36,565 --> 00:18:38,904 health was core and center to, 491 00:18:39,765 --> 00:18:40,744 overall health, 492 00:18:41,444 --> 00:18:44,664 care. That that idea seems to be gaining 493 00:18:44,804 --> 00:18:45,204 more, 494 00:18:46,325 --> 00:18:46,764 wide, 495 00:18:47,204 --> 00:18:49,065 range acknowledgments, which is 496 00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:51,309 exciting to see. 497 00:18:51,849 --> 00:18:53,710 I think along with that is, 498 00:18:54,009 --> 00:18:56,570 I think, advice to kinda share is that 499 00:18:56,570 --> 00:18:58,430 now is a great time to get creative. 500 00:18:59,609 --> 00:19:01,150 Every payer is facing, 501 00:19:01,930 --> 00:19:03,710 headwinds in terms of how 502 00:19:04,315 --> 00:19:07,455 we're seeing overall trends in medical costs overall. 503 00:19:07,515 --> 00:19:08,975 Providers are also facing, 504 00:19:09,515 --> 00:19:12,015 headwinds as well. So there is opportunity 505 00:19:12,315 --> 00:19:13,934 in these in in this time, 506 00:19:14,394 --> 00:19:16,414 even with those headwinds, to find 507 00:19:16,715 --> 00:19:19,859 places where partnership can can come up. And 508 00:19:19,859 --> 00:19:22,200 I would just encourage the the best, 509 00:19:22,580 --> 00:19:24,259 ways we've been able to do that is 510 00:19:24,259 --> 00:19:25,240 to make connections 511 00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:26,039 and, 512 00:19:27,059 --> 00:19:29,460 really define what problems we're trying to solve, 513 00:19:29,779 --> 00:19:30,279 together 514 00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:32,580 as how we're going through it all. I 515 00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:34,119 think the other piece is 516 00:19:35,035 --> 00:19:37,355 virtual care is here to stay. We don't 517 00:19:37,355 --> 00:19:38,174 see this as 518 00:19:38,634 --> 00:19:40,414 a a blip or a fad. 519 00:19:41,434 --> 00:19:43,695 We we're consistently seeing utilization 520 00:19:44,634 --> 00:19:45,615 remaining consistent. 521 00:19:46,234 --> 00:19:48,920 What we're finding is that we need to 522 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,519 also use that as a tool in our 523 00:19:50,519 --> 00:19:51,019 toolkit 524 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,980 and not something that we want to, 525 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,559 say as declarative across the board. This is 526 00:19:57,559 --> 00:19:59,400 how care should be completed, and our role 527 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,299 as a payer 528 00:20:00,694 --> 00:20:02,214 always needs to be figuring out how we 529 00:20:02,214 --> 00:20:04,615 can how can we prioritize our members' needs 530 00:20:04,615 --> 00:20:07,494 and access to care and have equitable access 531 00:20:07,494 --> 00:20:10,634 to care. So as technology continues to emerge, 532 00:20:11,255 --> 00:20:12,795 this is not something to, 533 00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:14,950 I would say, run away from or fear, 534 00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:17,349 but really try to lean in and think 535 00:20:17,349 --> 00:20:19,210 about how we can start leveraging 536 00:20:19,589 --> 00:20:20,390 a lot of this, 537 00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:23,349 a lot of this technology for for everyone's 538 00:20:23,349 --> 00:20:23,849 benefit. 539 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:26,470 Fantastic. I think that's a great place to 540 00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:28,125 leave things. So, Bill, I wanna thank you 541 00:20:28,125 --> 00:20:30,125 for taking the time to chat with us 542 00:20:30,125 --> 00:20:32,365 and for sharing your insights with our listeners. 543 00:20:32,365 --> 00:20:34,365 We really appreciate it. Thank you so much 544 00:20:34,365 --> 00:20:36,545 for having us. I really enjoyed the conversation. 545 00:20:36,888 --> 00:20:39,449 Yeah. Likewise. And and to our listeners, if 546 00:20:39,449 --> 00:20:41,048 you'd like to listen to more podcasts from 547 00:20:41,048 --> 00:20:44,749 Becker's Healthcare, you can visit beckershospitalreview.com.