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Hello, everyone. This is Erica Spicer Mason with

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Becker's Healthcare. Thank you so much for tuning

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into the Becker's Healthcare podcast series.

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So today we're going to talk about the

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importance and the value of non emergency medical

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transportation.

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And joining me for this conversation is Alan

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Murray, the president and CEO of MetaDrive.

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Alan, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so

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much for joining Becker's today. No. Thank you

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for having me. It's a real pleasure. I

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appreciate it.

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We're thrilled to have you, and I'm really

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excited to talk

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about this this topic, you know, non emergency

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medical transportation and what that means from an

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access standpoint and organizational and business standpoint. But

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before we get into the meat of the

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conversation, wanted to give you the opportunity to

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share a little bit more about yourself and

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your work in health care. Yeah. Thank you,

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Erica. Yeah. It's,

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it's been quite the journey for me personally.

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I actually came over to The US

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in 2000 and,

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'2.

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So, you know, I've been here a long

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time, and that entire time, I've been in

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the health care industry. I actually started at

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Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield,

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way back then,

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and had progressed through a number of other

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similar count companies, including UnitedHealthcare

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and actually was part of starting,

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a brand new health insurance company,

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with Northwell Health called Care Connect.

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I then went back to Empire Blue Cross

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Blue Shield for five years as their president

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and CEO.

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And, Erica, as part of that journey,

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I really started to understand a lot more

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about how people

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access health care, in this country, which, by

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the way, has a phenomenal

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health care system compared to where I grew

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up in The UK.

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But it's not necessarily

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coordinated. Right? And access can be a problem

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if you don't have the means.

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And so one of the things that I

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became very aware of

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was this issue of nonemergency medical transportation.

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And while, Erica,

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it is out there as, you know,

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our understood

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benefit in the Medicaid space and even in

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the Medicare space.

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It's pretty underutilized.

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And even when it is utilized,

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there's a lot of missed strides. There's a

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lot of confusion. There's a lot of issues

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with that benefit.

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And so

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as I started to see where opportunities were

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for improvement,

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I actually joined

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with some transportation

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experts,

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and we created many drive, which for from

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my perspective,

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is the future

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of non emergency medical transportation.

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And

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what I'm really trying to do with Medi

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Drive is to improve the health and wellness

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of all Americans

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by really compassionately

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transporting them on the road to better health.

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Alan, so great to learn more about you,

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your background,

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and and just more about what, you know,

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the kind of the basis of Medidrive, what

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inspired it. And it sounds like we both

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have some similarities in our our work in

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health care. I also come from a payer

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organization

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in a past role, and,

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I've seen firsthand some of these coordination barriers

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that you're talking about when it comes to

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medical transportation

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and and also how sometimes there's often a

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lack of awareness on the member standpoint. So

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a lot we could probably go into. I

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won't get up on our conversation,

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but,

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yeah, just wanted to acknowledge that I I've

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certainly seen that firsthand as well.

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And I wanted to go a little bit

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deeper

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in this area.

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You know, we know that research shows that

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about one in five US adults actually forego

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medical care completely because of transportation barriers,

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which is a really significant

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number of folks in the country. So from

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your perspective, you know, what is the role

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of non emergency medical transportation here, not just

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for patient access and better outcomes, but also

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supporting health care organizations goals more broadly?

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Yeah. Erica, it's kinda crazy when you think,

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about that stat. Right? One in five US

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adults

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don't get the Medicaid medical care because of

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transportation. And I mean, we all know one

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in five. It's twenty percent

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of people are foregoing medical care.

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You know, and if we think about that,

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that doesn't mean that they don't need medical

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care. Right? It's not like they they weren't

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feeling well. They woke up, and they decided

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not to go. What ends up happening

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is further down the road, the issues that

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they're having medically

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or from a behavioral health perspective can potentially

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get a lot worse. They can show up

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in emergency rooms. They can get readmitted and

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so forth. So

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nonemergency medical transportation

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is a real part of the social determinants

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of health. Right? And it's the ability

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not only to get people to care,

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but to ensure that it's on a continuous

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as part of a continuous course of treatment.

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Right? Take, for example, chronic kidney disease.

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Right? If if you have to go to

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dialysis, if you have to go to your

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endocrinologist,

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you're going potentially

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several times a week.

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If you don't make it to that dialysis,

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your health is gonna be materially impacted,

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and is going to not only

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impact your your life and and your longevity

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potentially,

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but it's actually gonna cost the health care

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system a lot more. And we already know

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how expensive

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The US health care system is compared to

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other health care systems across the world.

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And so from my perspective,

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the role nonemergency

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medical transportation plays is the ability to be

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reliable

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in the space that it that people need

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in order to continue

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a course of treatment, a care journey,

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either to its conclusion

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or in a continuous manner.

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So it's really about connecting people to care.

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And the other thing, Erica, which I think

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is really important is it's not just

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the patient. Right? It's not just the patient

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being picked up and being dropped off.

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What's also really important

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is

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the rest

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of that cycle and those who are involved.

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So making sure the health plan is aware

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that transportation is occurring.

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Having insight and providing,

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transparency

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to the health care provider.

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Hey. This patient is is gonna have transportation.

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They've been picked up. They're on their way.

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They need they need help once they get

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there. They have a walker or a wheelchair.

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And even their loved ones or their caregivers

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or their care managers at a payer, knowing

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what is going on

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real time

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in this part of the care journey. It's

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absolutely essential,

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but it hasn't necessarily

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happened to date in a truly integrated manner.

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Such great points, Alan.

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As you were kind of describing this need

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for,

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non non emergency medical transportation

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as part of a continuous course of treatment.

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It sounds like your approach and MetaDrive's approach

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is really kind of zooming out and looking

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at this holistically. Where does transportation

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fit in at various

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touch points,

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between the patient and their health care journey?

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Yeah. And I imagine, you know, you mentioned

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that there hasn't been a lot of,

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real time capabilities in terms of all stakeholders

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in that continuum knowing when transportation is needed,

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when it's happening.

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So can you just share a little bit

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more about what can be done to close

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some of those information gaps that systems might

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be experiencing when it comes to integrating the

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service,

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especially to ensure that all stakeholders are able

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to track what's going on with the patient's

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journey?

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Yeah, Erica. It it's really interesting because,

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you know, as I looked

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to become part of Medidrive and to really

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make it all it can be,

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the very first thing that,

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I saw was partners that understood

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transportation.

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And so I actually partnered with a couple

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of individuals who run a company called CTG.

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It stands for corporate transportation group. And they've

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been in the business for over forty years,

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doing corporate transportation, you know, black cars, but

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also paratransit,

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which is obviously for large municipalities

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getting people to and from their intended places

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and if they can't get on a bus

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or other public transportation.

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When I when I joined with them, the

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combination

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of my health care experience and their transportation

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experience

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really allowed us to approach nonemergency

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medical transportation in a completely different way. Right?

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So first and foremost,

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nonemergency

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medical transportation

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is about the driver, is about routing, is

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about dispatching.

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It's about having all the vehicles ready, making

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sure those vehicles are compliant, that they're the

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the drivers

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have been credentialed, that they know how to

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if he gets a wheelchair vehicle, they know

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how to operate wheelchairs.

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But then the flip side of that on

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the health care side is fitting that in

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to the

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vertical,

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care systems

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that health care has.

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And so that's obviously being able to provide

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health plans, Medicaid, and Medicare plans where applicable

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with all the tools that they need

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so that their care managers, their call centers,

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their procurement team, their finance team can all

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monitor what's happening.

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We also then layered in, as I mentioned

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before, this

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provider concept where we also have a tool

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called the,

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the medi drive,

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transportation management system

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that a provider can load within ten minutes

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up and running, and they can use that

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system to manage

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all their own transportation

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as well as any transportation

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that we have, that we are the broker

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with a health plan.

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So when you combine all that together, you're

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really delivering on an incredible care continuum,

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which can even include integrating with,

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EMRs,

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peer eligibility

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systems.

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And ultimately, we do all that while communicating

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across the continuum.

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Erica, we even communicate in almost any language.

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And I'll give you I'll give you an

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example.

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We have one,

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provider customer who before

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we partnered with them, they had a twenty

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three percent no show rate. So twenty three

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percent of the time, their patients didn't show

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up. After we started working with them, within

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six months, that number dropped to eleven percent.

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So think about the impact that has on

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people's health

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and the impact it has to that particular

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provider ensuring they're getting those patients in and

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and are seeing them appropriately.

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Such a great example. Thank you for sharing,

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Alan.

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As you were describing

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how MetaDrive is leveraging these various layers of

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expertise,

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including all of these stakeholders, I'm kind of

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envisioning this as a a big orchestration

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of Yeah. Technology and processes in the background

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to really make this seamless,

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for the patient and for providers as well,

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which is very important. Yep.

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And, of course, payers in addition to that.

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So this is fantastic. And as you look

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ahead,

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you know, I know the technology landscape is

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changing. Patient needs

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are changing, and health systems and pairs alike

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are, of course, prioritizing

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the social determinants of health and health equity

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as we as we move forward.

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So how do you in in this space,

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how do you see the non emergency medical

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transportation landscape changing at the same time, especially

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as we're seeing more folks invest in care

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coordination and value based models?

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00:11:57,259 --> 00:11:59,259
Yeah. Erica, it's a great question. And, you

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know, if you'd asked me eighteen months ago,

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two years ago about the space, I would

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have said, I don't think there's a lot

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of innovation.

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You know, I think

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nonemergency

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medical transportation

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brokers, vendors

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are kind of interchangeable. You know, at the

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end of the day, they provide a call

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center.

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They

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broker rides, you know, sometimes three, four days

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requirement in advance.

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We get a lot of complaints about it

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as a health plan.

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It's not always reliable. And, you know, in

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my mind, I thought, well, that's just the

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industry. It is what it is.

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But now that I've been in the industry,

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it's incredibly exciting to see what is happening.

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You know, if we think about it from

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a machine learning artificial intelligence basis,

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we have the ability to monitor all these

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rides that are going on, you know, literally

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millions of rides a year in real time.

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We can show

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to a care manager

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exactly where a vehicle is in its journey

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towards

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the dialysis center.

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Therefore, allowing that care manager to understand the

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patient is on their way.

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We have the ability, as I said earlier,

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to communicate in almost any language. Right? So

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that's with the text message, that's with our

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app, or, you know, with the software development

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kit to,

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providers app or to a health plans app.

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And I think what all this means is

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we're using

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this knowledge base of

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health care and the way patients go about

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their care journey,

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transportation providers and the way that those individuals

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and those companies need to,

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you know, schedule and get through their day.

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And we're combining it all with this platform

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that links

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all of the different incremental pieces,

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even down to the point where

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we've actually created a marketplace within our platform

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that allows us at any point in time

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to find the most affordable ride

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and the closest ride. So that's almost like

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an Expedia type thing that happens behind the

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scene.

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So the

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the future of the NEMT is incredibly

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bright,

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assuming that

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we can educate people on

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exactly what that future

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00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:25,070
can look like versus the way it is

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00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:25,570
today.

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00:14:27,149 --> 00:14:29,665
It's a really exciting outlook, Alan, and I

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appreciate you throughout this conversation highlighting not only

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the importance of transportation when it comes to

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care access, but also opportunities that organizations can

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see from an efficiency standpoint

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and better serving their members and have and

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00:14:43,264 --> 00:14:45,899
and ensuring that they're having a better experience

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00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,340
across that care journey.

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00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,879
So I feel like we could keep going

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for a long in this conversation, but I

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00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,940
do wanna respect your time. And and just

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00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,759
for to close us out here, you know,

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00:14:56,759 --> 00:14:58,200
is there anything that you think maybe we

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00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,345
glossed over too quickly or any final thoughts

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00:15:00,345 --> 00:15:02,125
that you wanted to leave our listeners with?

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00:15:02,424 --> 00:15:05,144
Only a couple of things, Erica. I think

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00:15:05,144 --> 00:15:07,404
you had just actually mentioned it about efficiency.

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00:15:07,464 --> 00:15:08,845
One of the great things

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00:15:09,225 --> 00:15:12,105
that the approach that many drive has and

401
00:15:12,105 --> 00:15:15,004
the technology and the platforms that we've created

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00:15:15,779 --> 00:15:16,600
is efficiency.

403
00:15:17,860 --> 00:15:19,720
We are actually performing

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00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:21,000
30%

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00:15:21,059 --> 00:15:23,159
more efficient than what we believe,

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00:15:23,699 --> 00:15:25,860
some of the other competitors are because of

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00:15:25,860 --> 00:15:27,159
the way that we've designed,

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00:15:27,779 --> 00:15:30,120
and we go about the use of technology,

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00:15:31,074 --> 00:15:33,334
and, quite frankly, our transportation

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00:15:33,794 --> 00:15:34,454
know how.

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00:15:34,754 --> 00:15:38,534
That translates not only into a better product,

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00:15:39,235 --> 00:15:42,274
and a more reliable product, but it also

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00:15:42,274 --> 00:15:44,355
means if you're a health care payer or

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00:15:44,355 --> 00:15:45,254
you're a provider,

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00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,100
you can actually begin to look at reducing

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00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:50,740
costs when it comes to your transportation impact.

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00:15:50,740 --> 00:15:52,740
And I think that's really important as we

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00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:54,660
look at the cost of health care today

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00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:56,259
and the way it's the way that it's

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00:15:56,259 --> 00:15:57,160
actually delivered.

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00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:59,714
Health care costs are going up all the

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00:15:59,714 --> 00:16:02,355
time. Right? We we're at 18 plus percent

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00:16:02,355 --> 00:16:03,095
of GDP.

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00:16:03,875 --> 00:16:06,855
And ultimately, what I believe technology

425
00:16:07,394 --> 00:16:10,214
needs to deliver as well as new entrants,

426
00:16:10,274 --> 00:16:12,294
relatively new entrants into the market,

427
00:16:12,759 --> 00:16:14,440
is we need to be able to show

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00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,459
that we can do it obviously better,

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00:16:17,319 --> 00:16:19,100
with a far greater reliability

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00:16:19,559 --> 00:16:21,399
and a and a better impact to the

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00:16:21,399 --> 00:16:22,940
patients and the other constituents.

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00:16:23,799 --> 00:16:25,845
But we have to do it at a

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00:16:25,845 --> 00:16:29,225
greater efficiency and pass on that financial benefit

434
00:16:29,365 --> 00:16:30,264
to our customers

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00:16:30,725 --> 00:16:33,284
so that we can have an impact on

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00:16:33,284 --> 00:16:33,784
controlling

437
00:16:34,325 --> 00:16:36,804
not just the cost of non emergency medical

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00:16:36,804 --> 00:16:37,304
transportation,

439
00:16:37,929 --> 00:16:40,410
but I also think by showing that there's

440
00:16:40,410 --> 00:16:43,529
an improvement in cost to the total cost

441
00:16:43,529 --> 00:16:46,490
of care that individuals go through. And so

442
00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:49,309
it's a combination of all of that, Erica,

443
00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:52,235
that I believe Medi Drive delivers and

444
00:16:52,695 --> 00:16:55,195
is the future of nonemergency medical transportation.

445
00:16:55,894 --> 00:16:56,875
And, ultimately,

446
00:16:57,414 --> 00:16:58,934
thank you so much for taking the time

447
00:16:58,934 --> 00:17:01,014
and and asking me these awesome questions. It's

448
00:17:01,014 --> 00:17:01,995
been a real pleasure.

449
00:17:02,375 --> 00:17:04,775
Oh, Alan, it's been great having you with

450
00:17:04,775 --> 00:17:06,875
Becker's today and for highlighting

451
00:17:07,509 --> 00:17:11,029
really important points in nonemergency medical transportation and

452
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:13,589
what it means for care delivery. So thank

453
00:17:13,589 --> 00:17:15,349
you, Alan, again, for making the time and

454
00:17:15,349 --> 00:17:17,910
sharing your insights today. It's a pleasure. Thank

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00:17:17,910 --> 00:17:18,410
you.

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00:17:19,444 --> 00:17:21,365
And we'd also like to thank our podcast

457
00:17:21,365 --> 00:17:23,464
sponsor for today, Meta Drive.

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00:17:23,765 --> 00:17:25,365
Listeners, be sure to tune in to more

459
00:17:25,365 --> 00:17:28,164
podcasts from Becker's Healthcare by visiting our podcast

460
00:17:28,164 --> 00:17:31,144
page at beckershospitalreview.com.