1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Hi, everyone. This is Erica Spicer Mason with 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,799 Becker's Healthcare. Thank you so much for tuning 3 00:00:04,799 --> 00:00:07,620 into the Becker's Payer Issues podcast series. 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,759 So today we're going to talk about how 5 00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:11,859 health plans can play a role in delivering 6 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:14,164 the right mental health care services at the 7 00:00:14,164 --> 00:00:14,664 right 8 00:00:15,044 --> 00:00:16,964 time. And joining me for this conversation is 9 00:00:16,964 --> 00:00:17,864 Jenna Glover, 10 00:00:18,245 --> 00:00:20,585 chief clinical officer at Headspace. 11 00:00:21,285 --> 00:00:23,204 Jenna, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so 12 00:00:23,204 --> 00:00:25,144 much for making time for Becker's today. 13 00:00:25,685 --> 00:00:27,385 Oh, yes. Thank you for having me. 14 00:00:28,039 --> 00:00:29,899 We're so happy to have you with us. 15 00:00:30,039 --> 00:00:32,359 And before we get into our discussion on 16 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:34,600 mental health care and all of the important 17 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,679 components that play into that, I wanted to 18 00:00:36,679 --> 00:00:38,520 give you the opportunity to just share a 19 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,199 little bit about yourself and your work in 20 00:00:40,199 --> 00:00:41,500 health care with our listeners. 21 00:00:42,745 --> 00:00:46,024 Yeah. So I'm a licensed clinical psychologist. And, 22 00:00:46,024 --> 00:00:48,265 you know, my journey in mental health care 23 00:00:48,265 --> 00:00:50,585 spans the past two decades. I've worked in 24 00:00:50,585 --> 00:00:52,344 a wide range of clinical settings. So I've 25 00:00:52,344 --> 00:00:55,200 been in community mental health, in large hospital 26 00:00:55,359 --> 00:00:55,859 systems. 27 00:00:56,399 --> 00:00:59,359 And before before joining Headspace, I served as 28 00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:01,200 an associate professor. I was in the department 29 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,760 of psychiatry at the University of Colorado, and 30 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,859 I had an appointment at Children's Hospital Colorado. 31 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,579 And this was during the COVID nineteen pandemic, 32 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,594 and I really witnessed firsthand how broken our 33 00:01:10,594 --> 00:01:12,295 mental health system had become. 34 00:01:12,594 --> 00:01:14,674 So we had many times where we had 35 00:01:14,674 --> 00:01:17,394 dozens of children in our emergency department waiting 36 00:01:17,394 --> 00:01:18,935 for urgent mental health evaluations. 37 00:01:19,474 --> 00:01:20,915 Some of those kids had to wait between 38 00:01:20,915 --> 00:01:22,834 twenty four to forty eight hours because we 39 00:01:22,834 --> 00:01:24,909 just did not have enough space or providers 40 00:01:24,909 --> 00:01:26,770 to give them timely access to care. 41 00:01:27,230 --> 00:01:29,469 And that wasn't really unique to our hospital 42 00:01:29,469 --> 00:01:31,090 that was happening across the country. 43 00:01:31,549 --> 00:01:33,069 And I would say that that experience was 44 00:01:33,069 --> 00:01:34,750 a turning point for me, that I knew 45 00:01:34,750 --> 00:01:36,909 I wanted to create something different and something 46 00:01:36,909 --> 00:01:38,655 better. And so that's why I came to 47 00:01:38,655 --> 00:01:40,194 Headspace to really reimagine 48 00:01:40,655 --> 00:01:42,275 how mental health care is delivered 49 00:01:42,575 --> 00:01:44,655 so people get access to effective care when 50 00:01:44,655 --> 00:01:45,474 they need it. 51 00:01:45,855 --> 00:01:47,135 So, you know, one of the things we 52 00:01:47,135 --> 00:01:47,954 do at Headspace 53 00:01:48,334 --> 00:01:51,375 is providing a comprehensive ecosystem of care, and 54 00:01:51,375 --> 00:01:54,310 we support health plans and employers to offer 55 00:01:54,310 --> 00:01:54,810 solutions 56 00:01:55,189 --> 00:01:57,189 that really meet people where they are. And 57 00:01:57,189 --> 00:01:59,670 we have that full spectrum of subclinical care, 58 00:01:59,670 --> 00:02:01,130 of meditation and coaching, 59 00:02:01,510 --> 00:02:03,770 up to clinical care of therapy and psychiatry 60 00:02:03,829 --> 00:02:04,730 and care navigation. 61 00:02:05,935 --> 00:02:07,935 Well, Jenna, thank you so much for telling 62 00:02:07,935 --> 00:02:09,955 us a little bit more about yourself and 63 00:02:10,094 --> 00:02:12,254 really what drives and motivates you to do 64 00:02:12,254 --> 00:02:14,254 this work. You know, Headspace, I think, is 65 00:02:14,254 --> 00:02:15,854 a kind of a household name at this 66 00:02:15,854 --> 00:02:17,639 point in in terms of 67 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,500 apps and innovative ways to receive care. So 68 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,400 excited to have your perspective from both the 69 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,259 provider and and now at Headspace. 70 00:02:26,039 --> 00:02:27,719 And you touched on kind of this this 71 00:02:27,719 --> 00:02:29,800 big issue that we're seeing in the demand 72 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,459 for behavioral health and mental health services versus 73 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,675 supply of providers. 74 00:02:34,455 --> 00:02:36,134 And we know that studies show that mental 75 00:02:36,134 --> 00:02:38,775 health disparities could actually cost The US up 76 00:02:38,775 --> 00:02:40,474 to $14,000,000,000,000 77 00:02:40,534 --> 00:02:42,074 by the year 02/1940. 78 00:02:42,534 --> 00:02:44,294 So it's clear that the system is in 79 00:02:44,294 --> 00:02:46,615 need of change as you've alluded to, not 80 00:02:46,615 --> 00:02:48,620 just to lower cost, but to improve patient 81 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:51,099 outcomes as well. So from your perspective, what 82 00:02:51,099 --> 00:02:53,099 are the biggest challenges in mental health care 83 00:02:53,099 --> 00:02:55,280 today and how are they impacting patients 84 00:02:55,580 --> 00:02:56,639 and health plans? 85 00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:00,139 So I think it's important to state that 86 00:03:00,139 --> 00:03:02,844 mental health care wasn't designed with everyone in 87 00:03:02,844 --> 00:03:05,245 mind. So our system was really built to 88 00:03:05,245 --> 00:03:07,485 treat mental illness and not to promote or 89 00:03:07,485 --> 00:03:08,625 sustain mental health. 90 00:03:08,925 --> 00:03:10,925 And that leaves most people without the support 91 00:03:10,925 --> 00:03:13,645 they actually need. And because of that, I 92 00:03:13,645 --> 00:03:16,110 see this as two big problem areas. So 93 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:18,449 first, most people don't need therapy, 94 00:03:18,830 --> 00:03:21,169 but everybody does need mental health support. 95 00:03:21,710 --> 00:03:23,010 You know, everybody faces 96 00:03:23,550 --> 00:03:25,250 stress, transition, challenges. 97 00:03:25,710 --> 00:03:28,844 But therapy has become the primary offering and 98 00:03:28,844 --> 00:03:31,485 in some cases, the only option for support. 99 00:03:31,485 --> 00:03:33,485 And honestly, that is just not sustainable. We've 100 00:03:33,485 --> 00:03:34,784 seen how that doesn't work. 101 00:03:35,085 --> 00:03:37,665 I think what's missing is proactive and preventative 102 00:03:37,805 --> 00:03:40,224 care. So things like mindfulness and coaching, 103 00:03:40,525 --> 00:03:41,665 skills based content. 104 00:03:42,050 --> 00:03:43,729 These are things that can help people build 105 00:03:43,729 --> 00:03:46,229 resilience before they get to that crisis point. 106 00:03:46,770 --> 00:03:48,770 But the system, it doesn't make it easy 107 00:03:48,770 --> 00:03:50,849 to find or access these kind of resources. 108 00:03:50,849 --> 00:03:52,610 And and honestly, what I have found is 109 00:03:52,610 --> 00:03:54,284 many people don't even know they exist. 110 00:03:54,764 --> 00:03:56,305 So that's problem number one. 111 00:03:57,085 --> 00:03:59,085 Second, there is a subset of people who 112 00:03:59,085 --> 00:04:01,165 do need therapy. We know that twenty three 113 00:04:01,165 --> 00:04:03,185 percent of people have a mental health diagnosis. 114 00:04:03,405 --> 00:04:04,944 They absolutely need treatment. 115 00:04:05,805 --> 00:04:07,665 But for those who do need it, access 116 00:04:07,980 --> 00:04:09,439 continues to be a huge barrier. 117 00:04:09,740 --> 00:04:11,659 And there are many components to that. So 118 00:04:11,659 --> 00:04:13,760 it can be cost and lack of coverage. 119 00:04:14,139 --> 00:04:16,060 Stigma is still a problem in terms of 120 00:04:16,060 --> 00:04:17,660 people raising their hand and saying they need 121 00:04:17,660 --> 00:04:18,160 help. 122 00:04:18,620 --> 00:04:21,279 And then there are really long wait times. 123 00:04:21,339 --> 00:04:23,345 So in The US right now, it takes 124 00:04:23,345 --> 00:04:24,704 an average of six weeks to get a 125 00:04:24,704 --> 00:04:25,685 mental health appointment. 126 00:04:26,144 --> 00:04:27,824 And I often tell people, like, imagine you 127 00:04:27,824 --> 00:04:29,104 had strep throat. And they were like, we 128 00:04:29,104 --> 00:04:31,024 can't get you in for six weeks. Like, 129 00:04:31,024 --> 00:04:32,785 that's not a great place to be in 130 00:04:32,785 --> 00:04:35,160 terms of helping people get back to health. 131 00:04:35,959 --> 00:04:37,560 And the other component is most of these 132 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,959 are only available during standard work hours, so 133 00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:42,600 it's hard to access care. And then finally, 134 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,279 if you do access care, finding the right 135 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,920 provider can be challenging. We don't have as 136 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,080 diverse a workforce as we need to in 137 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,300 the therapy field. 138 00:04:50,625 --> 00:04:53,264 And that's important because outcomes are dependent on 139 00:04:53,264 --> 00:04:54,944 if you feel like your therapist really gets 140 00:04:54,944 --> 00:04:57,365 you. So all of these hurdles add up. 141 00:04:58,625 --> 00:05:00,785 So I think if we want to make 142 00:05:00,785 --> 00:05:02,865 meaningful change, both for people in the health 143 00:05:02,865 --> 00:05:05,105 care system, we really have to reimagine it 144 00:05:05,105 --> 00:05:06,509 as something that's more proactive, 145 00:05:06,889 --> 00:05:08,269 inclusive, and truly 146 00:05:08,649 --> 00:05:09,709 accessible to everyone. 147 00:05:10,970 --> 00:05:13,389 Yeah. Jenna, I I really appreciate how you 148 00:05:13,610 --> 00:05:16,009 touched on all of those barriers and kind 149 00:05:16,009 --> 00:05:18,430 of how they fit under that umbrella of 150 00:05:18,729 --> 00:05:21,914 overall access issues, you know, whether that's diversity 151 00:05:21,914 --> 00:05:24,735 in the provider pool, stigma, wait times. 152 00:05:25,194 --> 00:05:26,875 I know you also mentioned it seems that 153 00:05:26,875 --> 00:05:29,354 proactive and preventative care is kind of missing 154 00:05:29,354 --> 00:05:31,294 from this puzzle as well. 155 00:05:31,675 --> 00:05:34,314 So considering all of this, how is this 156 00:05:34,314 --> 00:05:36,254 informing your work at Headspace? 157 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:39,420 Yeah. Our our point of view at Headspace 158 00:05:39,420 --> 00:05:42,060 is everyone deserves support, but not everybody needs 159 00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:43,660 the same kind. So let's get away from 160 00:05:43,660 --> 00:05:45,740 a one size fits all approach. And and 161 00:05:45,740 --> 00:05:47,439 to do that, you really have to personalize 162 00:05:47,740 --> 00:05:50,139 care and deliver the right mix of care 163 00:05:50,139 --> 00:05:51,899 at the right time and do it across 164 00:05:51,899 --> 00:05:54,384 a broad range of really interconnected services. 165 00:05:55,165 --> 00:05:56,524 And our point of view is that you 166 00:05:56,524 --> 00:05:59,245 have to leverage technology and clinical science in 167 00:05:59,245 --> 00:06:01,084 order to do this at scale and to 168 00:06:01,084 --> 00:06:03,264 keep outcomes at lower cost. 169 00:06:03,644 --> 00:06:05,805 So what we do is we start with 170 00:06:05,805 --> 00:06:08,889 smart triage. So we clinical assessments and empathetic 171 00:06:08,949 --> 00:06:09,449 questions 172 00:06:09,910 --> 00:06:11,750 help us build a deep understanding of each 173 00:06:11,750 --> 00:06:14,089 member's needs, their preferences, their goals. 174 00:06:14,470 --> 00:06:17,029 And then from there, we are able to 175 00:06:17,029 --> 00:06:19,750 hand a personalized care plan to patients, which 176 00:06:19,750 --> 00:06:22,365 is a tailored road map that guides their 177 00:06:22,365 --> 00:06:24,524 care journey, and it changes and adapts with 178 00:06:24,524 --> 00:06:25,504 them as they progress. 179 00:06:26,125 --> 00:06:27,725 So if you think about, you know, one 180 00:06:27,725 --> 00:06:29,644 member with sleep concerns might be guided to 181 00:06:29,644 --> 00:06:31,644 our finding your best sleep program, and another, 182 00:06:31,644 --> 00:06:33,904 it's more significant. They need to start therapy 183 00:06:34,365 --> 00:06:36,779 right away. But they also only see a 184 00:06:36,779 --> 00:06:38,459 therapist once a week. And so making sure 185 00:06:38,459 --> 00:06:40,560 that they have access to content and clinician 186 00:06:40,779 --> 00:06:42,779 assigned activities so they have those higher touch 187 00:06:42,779 --> 00:06:43,279 points. 188 00:06:44,220 --> 00:06:45,580 You know, for us, I think it's not 189 00:06:45,580 --> 00:06:48,504 just about digital convenience. It's about dynamic and 190 00:06:48,504 --> 00:06:51,384 responsive care that supports people, like, every step 191 00:06:51,384 --> 00:06:53,725 of the way, not just during a crisis, 192 00:06:53,865 --> 00:06:56,185 but for their whole entire life whenever it 193 00:06:56,185 --> 00:06:58,125 is they need it. Because mental health changes 194 00:06:58,665 --> 00:07:00,504 consistently, and we wanna be there with those 195 00:07:00,504 --> 00:07:01,004 changes. 196 00:07:02,220 --> 00:07:03,520 Yeah. That's great, Jenna. 197 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:05,680 And you touching on personalization 198 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:09,580 in in has Headspace's approach, it it really 199 00:07:09,580 --> 00:07:12,220 resonates because we're just hearing that across health 200 00:07:12,220 --> 00:07:14,540 care, whether it's mental health care and behavioral 201 00:07:14,540 --> 00:07:16,319 health service delivery or, 202 00:07:17,104 --> 00:07:19,345 finding a provider or whatever it might be 203 00:07:19,345 --> 00:07:21,504 in a care journey, personalization seems to be 204 00:07:21,504 --> 00:07:23,504 really rising to the top in terms of 205 00:07:23,504 --> 00:07:25,285 priority for reaching patients. 206 00:07:26,305 --> 00:07:27,985 So so I wanted to tie this back 207 00:07:27,985 --> 00:07:30,480 to the health plan space. So 208 00:07:30,860 --> 00:07:33,259 we know that payers are increasingly focused on 209 00:07:33,259 --> 00:07:34,319 measuring outcomes. 210 00:07:34,939 --> 00:07:37,819 How can payers utilize different care models or 211 00:07:37,819 --> 00:07:40,160 some of their approaches that you're touching on 212 00:07:40,220 --> 00:07:42,935 to drive meaningful change while keeping cost in 213 00:07:42,935 --> 00:07:45,254 mind. Are there any key metrics they should 214 00:07:45,254 --> 00:07:46,314 really be looking at? 215 00:07:47,495 --> 00:07:49,495 Yeah. So I I think there's a couple 216 00:07:49,495 --> 00:07:51,414 of things in answering this question, and and 217 00:07:51,414 --> 00:07:52,774 you'll hear me beating the drum a little 218 00:07:52,774 --> 00:07:54,454 bit. But the first is it's it's the 219 00:07:54,454 --> 00:07:56,379 key is building a model that's both stratified 220 00:07:56,379 --> 00:07:58,240 and personalized. So first of all, recognizing 221 00:07:58,860 --> 00:08:00,699 not everyone needs the same type or intensity 222 00:08:00,699 --> 00:08:02,779 of support. So let's route people from the 223 00:08:02,779 --> 00:08:04,860 start to the right level of care with 224 00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:06,860 the right mix of components. So let's get 225 00:08:06,860 --> 00:08:08,800 the dosage right and what we're putting together. 226 00:08:09,339 --> 00:08:10,985 What happens is then this 227 00:08:11,285 --> 00:08:12,884 precision this precision is going to lead to 228 00:08:12,884 --> 00:08:15,764 smarter care delivery. So it's going to reduce 229 00:08:15,764 --> 00:08:16,264 waste. 230 00:08:16,644 --> 00:08:18,264 It encourages sustained engagement, 231 00:08:18,725 --> 00:08:20,644 and that's going to result in better outcomes 232 00:08:20,644 --> 00:08:21,625 and lower cost. 233 00:08:22,725 --> 00:08:24,779 I'd I'd mentioned this before, but Headspace, we 234 00:08:24,779 --> 00:08:26,620 place a really strong emphasis on the value 235 00:08:26,620 --> 00:08:29,100 of subclinical care. So things like sleep, mental 236 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:29,839 health coaching, 237 00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:31,439 stress management. 238 00:08:31,980 --> 00:08:34,620 So those things are gonna help prevent clinical 239 00:08:34,620 --> 00:08:35,120 escalation 240 00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:37,634 and promote wellness when we deliver them pro 241 00:08:38,595 --> 00:08:40,434 actively. But all of that said, none of 242 00:08:40,434 --> 00:08:42,294 this works without measurement based care. 243 00:08:42,674 --> 00:08:44,754 And measurement based care is something that only 244 00:08:44,754 --> 00:08:46,855 twenty percent of mental health providers do today. 245 00:08:47,394 --> 00:08:48,995 And I think this is where tech enabled 246 00:08:48,995 --> 00:08:51,570 mental health has a real advantage. So what 247 00:08:51,570 --> 00:08:53,090 we need to be doing is tracking a 248 00:08:53,090 --> 00:08:54,389 wide range of metrics 249 00:08:54,929 --> 00:08:56,309 to understand what's working. 250 00:08:56,690 --> 00:09:00,049 So this is everything from engagement levels and 251 00:09:00,049 --> 00:09:01,970 also type of engagement. So one of the 252 00:09:01,970 --> 00:09:03,904 things we're able to do is for certain 253 00:09:03,904 --> 00:09:05,664 population, say this is the the kind of 254 00:09:05,664 --> 00:09:08,144 content your your population is really engaging in 255 00:09:08,144 --> 00:09:08,644 sleep. 256 00:09:09,264 --> 00:09:11,184 There's more you could do around stress. So 257 00:09:11,184 --> 00:09:12,704 what does engagement look like and what are 258 00:09:12,704 --> 00:09:13,845 the engagement areas? 259 00:09:14,304 --> 00:09:17,040 The retention of people, the length of care 260 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,600 episodes, and symptom reduction using kind of the 261 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,100 gold standards of the PHQ, the GAD, 262 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,360 and the perceived stress scale. So, all of 263 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,860 these things help track progress. And then finally, 264 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,840 not just symptom reduction, but we should also 265 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,445 be looking at metrics of people building meaningful 266 00:09:32,445 --> 00:09:32,945 skills. 267 00:09:33,325 --> 00:09:36,225 So what are they leaving therapy or clinical 268 00:09:36,285 --> 00:09:39,085 or preventative services with that will allow them 269 00:09:39,085 --> 00:09:41,884 to thrive and sustain those that progress, later 270 00:09:41,884 --> 00:09:42,384 on? 271 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:44,720 Yeah. So interesting. 272 00:09:45,180 --> 00:09:47,259 Jenna, thanks for giving us a rundown of 273 00:09:47,259 --> 00:09:49,120 some of those recommended metrics. 274 00:09:49,980 --> 00:09:51,120 And as you look ahead, 275 00:09:51,820 --> 00:09:54,540 payers are also really focusing on kind of 276 00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:56,620 value based models, especially when it comes to 277 00:09:56,620 --> 00:09:58,754 measurement as we were just touching on. So 278 00:09:58,754 --> 00:09:59,955 how do you see the role of health 279 00:09:59,955 --> 00:10:02,754 plans really evolving in delivering value based mental 280 00:10:02,754 --> 00:10:04,754 health care? And what steps do you think 281 00:10:04,754 --> 00:10:06,295 leaders should take now to integrate 282 00:10:06,674 --> 00:10:08,134 more effective care models? 283 00:10:09,315 --> 00:10:10,375 Yeah. So 284 00:10:10,899 --> 00:10:12,659 our world just continues to be, 285 00:10:13,539 --> 00:10:16,980 very uncertain and stressors abound. So there's gonna 286 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:18,899 just continue to be a push for more 287 00:10:18,899 --> 00:10:21,159 mental health support. As it continues to grow, 288 00:10:21,539 --> 00:10:23,620 I see health plans as being uniquely positioned 289 00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:26,404 to lead the shift towards value based, mental 290 00:10:26,404 --> 00:10:28,485 health care so we can deliver better care 291 00:10:28,485 --> 00:10:29,384 at lower cost. 292 00:10:30,884 --> 00:10:32,644 So it really I think the future is 293 00:10:32,644 --> 00:10:34,745 in building comprehensive, scalable solutions. 294 00:10:35,125 --> 00:10:37,545 And the primary drivers are access and engagement. 295 00:10:38,085 --> 00:10:39,524 But it's important to say that it's not 296 00:10:39,524 --> 00:10:41,860 just about expanding services. We have to make 297 00:10:41,860 --> 00:10:44,100 sure those services are grounded in evidence based 298 00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:44,600 practice. 299 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:46,759 They need to be culturally responsive 300 00:10:47,220 --> 00:10:49,879 because a person's identity, their lived experience, 301 00:10:50,259 --> 00:10:53,054 their cultural context, they all shape how a 302 00:10:53,054 --> 00:10:54,654 person engages in care. And so if we're 303 00:10:54,654 --> 00:10:56,335 not attending to that, we're going to lose 304 00:10:56,335 --> 00:10:58,254 out. And then it has to include that 305 00:10:58,254 --> 00:11:01,054 measurement based care foundation. So I think this 306 00:11:01,054 --> 00:11:03,215 is a powerful moment, and health plans can 307 00:11:03,215 --> 00:11:05,559 leverage their wide networks. And what they need 308 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,720 to do is pair that with rapidly evolving 309 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:08,220 technology 310 00:11:08,759 --> 00:11:11,240 to support more people more quickly and more 311 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,620 effectively than ever before. 312 00:11:13,079 --> 00:11:13,579 Stratification 313 00:11:14,039 --> 00:11:16,600 historically has been very expensive, and AI is 314 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,839 opening a door where we can do it 315 00:11:18,839 --> 00:11:20,654 in in a cost effective way at a 316 00:11:20,654 --> 00:11:22,355 level of scale we never could before. 317 00:11:23,694 --> 00:11:25,454 The other thing I think has to be 318 00:11:25,454 --> 00:11:28,174 that shift towards preventative mental health care. So 319 00:11:28,174 --> 00:11:30,095 we know that it reduced cost and improves 320 00:11:30,095 --> 00:11:30,595 outcomes. 321 00:11:31,019 --> 00:11:33,740 So we need to support people earlier, and 322 00:11:33,740 --> 00:11:36,379 we need to pay for that, and reimburse 323 00:11:36,379 --> 00:11:36,879 that. 324 00:11:37,420 --> 00:11:39,980 So for leaders from my perspective, the the 325 00:11:39,980 --> 00:11:42,220 path forward is clear. You invest in integrated 326 00:11:42,220 --> 00:11:44,684 tech enabled care models that prioritize prevention, 327 00:11:45,944 --> 00:11:47,964 speed of access, and quality outcomes. 328 00:11:48,424 --> 00:11:49,245 And I think 329 00:11:49,704 --> 00:11:51,164 when we're able to do that, 330 00:11:51,544 --> 00:11:53,544 we help people stay well and we create 331 00:11:53,544 --> 00:11:55,884 a sustainable and an efficient system. 332 00:11:56,950 --> 00:11:59,190 Yeah, Jenna, so well said. Thank you so 333 00:11:59,190 --> 00:12:01,429 much for all of your insights today. This 334 00:12:01,429 --> 00:12:04,309 has been such a quick but educational conversation 335 00:12:04,309 --> 00:12:05,669 for me and I'm sure for so many 336 00:12:05,669 --> 00:12:06,490 of our listeners. 337 00:12:06,950 --> 00:12:09,269 Is there anything we didn't cover that you 338 00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:11,165 wanted to mention or any final thoughts thoughts 339 00:12:11,165 --> 00:12:14,125 you wanted to share? I think it's important 340 00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:16,845 to say that investing in mental health care 341 00:12:16,845 --> 00:12:19,264 is essential for overall health 342 00:12:19,644 --> 00:12:22,045 and that there is really high levels of 343 00:12:22,045 --> 00:12:24,144 comorbidity between chronic conditions. 344 00:12:24,605 --> 00:12:26,970 So we know there's high comorbidity between cancer 345 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:28,830 and depression, diabetes and depression. 346 00:12:29,370 --> 00:12:32,170 And so, you know, we can't address and 347 00:12:32,170 --> 00:12:35,129 provide great physical health without having mental health 348 00:12:35,129 --> 00:12:37,610 care as a strong foundation because those things 349 00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:39,769 are linked. And when we're thinking about cost 350 00:12:39,769 --> 00:12:41,310 effective, scalable care, 351 00:12:41,745 --> 00:12:44,304 this component really is essential for the entire 352 00:12:44,304 --> 00:12:46,945 healthcare system and isn't specific to just one 353 00:12:46,945 --> 00:12:47,445 segment. 354 00:12:48,625 --> 00:12:51,264 Wow. Jenna, thank you so much again. This 355 00:12:51,264 --> 00:12:54,144 has been a great conversation. And again, really 356 00:12:54,144 --> 00:12:56,485 appreciate you making the time for Becker's today. 357 00:12:57,049 --> 00:12:58,429 Thanks so much for having me. 358 00:12:58,970 --> 00:13:01,789 We also wanna thank our podcast sponsor, Headspace. 359 00:13:02,569 --> 00:13:04,649 Listeners, be sure to tune into more podcasts 360 00:13:04,649 --> 00:13:07,209 from Becker's Healthcare by visiting our podcast page 361 00:13:07,209 --> 00:13:09,709 at beckershospitalreview.com.