1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,159 Hello, everyone. This is Jacob Emerson with the 2 00:00:02,159 --> 00:00:04,799 Becker's Pay Your Issues podcast. Thanks so much 3 00:00:04,799 --> 00:00:06,319 for tuning in today where we're going to 4 00:00:06,319 --> 00:00:09,059 be talking about leveraging data analytics and clinical 5 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,080 expertise to improve kidney health management for health 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,494 plans. So to dive into what is a 7 00:00:14,494 --> 00:00:17,554 big topic, I'm joined today by Joe Vadimatum, 8 00:00:17,774 --> 00:00:20,195 who is the founder and president of HealthMap 9 00:00:20,254 --> 00:00:22,175 Solutions. Joe, thanks so much for taking the 10 00:00:22,175 --> 00:00:23,614 time to be with us on the podcast 11 00:00:23,614 --> 00:00:24,114 today. 12 00:00:24,414 --> 00:00:26,414 Thanks for having me, Jacob. Excited to be 13 00:00:26,414 --> 00:00:28,809 here. Yeah. Likewise. And before we dive into 14 00:00:28,809 --> 00:00:30,730 everything we wanna talk with you about, can 15 00:00:30,730 --> 00:00:32,009 you tell us a little bit more about 16 00:00:32,009 --> 00:00:34,489 yourself, your background in health care, and what 17 00:00:34,489 --> 00:00:36,509 it is that you're doing today at HealthMap 18 00:00:36,649 --> 00:00:37,149 Solutions? 19 00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:39,289 Yeah. Absolutely. So, 20 00:00:41,354 --> 00:00:43,655 I'm a Tampa Bay native, so the company's 21 00:00:43,715 --> 00:00:44,934 headquartered in Tampa. 22 00:00:45,314 --> 00:00:47,254 I grew up in Saint Petersburg, Florida. 23 00:00:47,554 --> 00:00:48,695 My my background, 24 00:00:49,155 --> 00:00:49,655 I, 25 00:00:50,114 --> 00:00:51,254 coming out of school, 26 00:00:51,875 --> 00:00:54,774 started off on an actuarial consultant path, 27 00:00:55,619 --> 00:00:57,939 took a right turn after business school and 28 00:00:57,939 --> 00:01:00,920 went into investment banking, and then eventually found, 29 00:01:01,460 --> 00:01:03,000 found my place in health care. 30 00:01:03,619 --> 00:01:04,920 I started off working 31 00:01:05,780 --> 00:01:07,959 at WellCare Health Plans, and 32 00:01:09,484 --> 00:01:11,644 company was focused and is focused on, 33 00:01:12,444 --> 00:01:14,125 you know, now acquired by Centene, but focused 34 00:01:14,125 --> 00:01:17,325 on the government program space. So really zeroing 35 00:01:17,325 --> 00:01:19,905 in on Medicare and Medicaid populations, 36 00:01:20,685 --> 00:01:22,305 which I found to be very rewarding, 37 00:01:22,844 --> 00:01:23,980 and gave me a good sense of what 38 00:01:23,980 --> 00:01:25,120 it's like to work 39 00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:26,640 within those populations 40 00:01:26,939 --> 00:01:29,579 trying to improve their care. I did a 41 00:01:29,579 --> 00:01:30,400 little bit of 42 00:01:30,939 --> 00:01:32,000 everything there, 43 00:01:32,939 --> 00:01:36,079 worked in office of the CEO and network 44 00:01:36,140 --> 00:01:37,740 and quality and finance and strategy, and, 45 00:01:38,924 --> 00:01:40,105 strategy. And, 46 00:01:40,685 --> 00:01:43,045 and then eventually made my way over to 47 00:01:43,045 --> 00:01:44,944 a company called CareCentrix where, 48 00:01:45,484 --> 00:01:47,725 we were focused on a very specific niche 49 00:01:47,725 --> 00:01:48,784 of health care, 50 00:01:49,405 --> 00:01:52,305 leveraging a home health platform nationally to 51 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:53,560 be able to, 52 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,799 improve the care that people received in the 53 00:01:55,799 --> 00:01:56,859 home, but also 54 00:01:57,719 --> 00:02:00,680 built out a post acute care program while 55 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,040 I was there with a with a group 56 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:02,620 of people 57 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:04,454 and, and eventually 58 00:02:04,935 --> 00:02:06,474 risk on that and then also, 59 00:02:07,094 --> 00:02:10,074 acquired a sleep management company that would 60 00:02:10,375 --> 00:02:10,875 redirect, 61 00:02:11,495 --> 00:02:13,754 the side service of sleep testing for obstructive 62 00:02:13,814 --> 00:02:14,634 sleep apnea 63 00:02:15,175 --> 00:02:17,415 over to the the home from an outpatient 64 00:02:17,415 --> 00:02:17,915 setting. 65 00:02:18,294 --> 00:02:20,150 And I'd say at CareCentrix, 66 00:02:20,530 --> 00:02:22,789 it was great learning ground for how to 67 00:02:23,009 --> 00:02:23,989 lead and manage, 68 00:02:24,449 --> 00:02:25,569 and be part of a part of a 69 00:02:25,569 --> 00:02:27,509 team really that led and manage 70 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:30,129 a, a growth company in the health care 71 00:02:30,129 --> 00:02:30,629 space, 72 00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:34,229 especially serving payers. Right? So we 73 00:02:34,610 --> 00:02:37,194 figured out how to take an existing asset 74 00:02:37,194 --> 00:02:38,875 and and leverage it to be able to 75 00:02:38,875 --> 00:02:40,495 impact more of the health care dollar. 76 00:02:40,875 --> 00:02:41,375 We 77 00:02:42,155 --> 00:02:42,655 also 78 00:02:43,034 --> 00:02:45,915 learned how to drive value through side of 79 00:02:45,915 --> 00:02:46,974 service steerage 80 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,760 and build brand new programs leveraging clinical expertise. 81 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,520 And what I mean by that is that 82 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,680 post acute care program I mentioned, you know, 83 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:55,900 when I joined the company, 84 00:02:56,439 --> 00:02:58,939 there is a PowerPoint deck, and that was 85 00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:01,155 the full product at that 86 00:03:01,534 --> 00:03:02,175 time. And, 87 00:03:02,735 --> 00:03:04,415 and I was fortunate to be part of 88 00:03:04,415 --> 00:03:05,314 the group that 89 00:03:05,615 --> 00:03:07,875 built it into a real living, breathing, 90 00:03:08,335 --> 00:03:10,835 program that served and and helped, 91 00:03:11,135 --> 00:03:14,094 many, many people to avoid readmissions and optimize 92 00:03:14,094 --> 00:03:15,314 their post acute care 93 00:03:15,780 --> 00:03:16,280 services. 94 00:03:17,060 --> 00:03:18,979 So so in doing that, we worked with 95 00:03:18,979 --> 00:03:20,579 some of the leading clinicians in the in 96 00:03:20,579 --> 00:03:22,039 the country when it came 97 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:23,879 to transitions of care 98 00:03:24,180 --> 00:03:25,879 and post acute care health. 99 00:03:26,259 --> 00:03:27,780 And I think I took all of those 100 00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:28,759 lessons learned 101 00:03:29,284 --> 00:03:30,745 from both WellCare and CareCentrix 102 00:03:31,044 --> 00:03:34,665 as I went, and started cofounded really, HealthMap 103 00:03:34,724 --> 00:03:37,125 Solutions with with some other folks to be 104 00:03:37,125 --> 00:03:37,865 able to 105 00:03:38,245 --> 00:03:40,585 apply those towards the kidney population. 106 00:03:41,870 --> 00:03:44,189 I appreciate the background there, Joe. And and 107 00:03:44,189 --> 00:03:45,629 did you wanna dive into a little bit 108 00:03:45,629 --> 00:03:49,310 about HealthMap Solutions and and why you wanted 109 00:03:49,310 --> 00:03:51,389 to take on the challenge of of kidney 110 00:03:51,389 --> 00:03:52,129 health management? 111 00:03:53,069 --> 00:03:53,569 Yeah. 112 00:03:54,364 --> 00:03:56,525 So, you know, I I'd say for HealthMap, 113 00:03:56,525 --> 00:03:58,544 we started the company in 02/2013. 114 00:03:59,405 --> 00:03:59,905 And, 115 00:04:00,764 --> 00:04:02,364 you know, at that time, we were really 116 00:04:02,364 --> 00:04:03,984 focused on building out 117 00:04:04,764 --> 00:04:06,305 a population health platform. 118 00:04:06,730 --> 00:04:08,250 I I wouldn't say that we called it 119 00:04:08,250 --> 00:04:09,849 that back in 02/2013, 120 00:04:09,849 --> 00:04:11,930 but that's essentially what we're doing. When you 121 00:04:11,930 --> 00:04:13,150 look back in hindsight, 122 00:04:13,610 --> 00:04:15,129 we're really trying to build out a great 123 00:04:15,129 --> 00:04:16,009 platform that, 124 00:04:16,810 --> 00:04:18,830 could take the spare data, 125 00:04:19,290 --> 00:04:21,770 ingest it, analyze it, and then push it 126 00:04:21,770 --> 00:04:24,725 out to external stakeholders in a way where 127 00:04:25,024 --> 00:04:27,024 they could take it. And and it wasn't 128 00:04:27,024 --> 00:04:29,045 just data. It was insights for them. 129 00:04:29,584 --> 00:04:31,925 And those stakeholders could be providers or members. 130 00:04:33,024 --> 00:04:35,105 With kidney disease, you know, we really were 131 00:04:35,105 --> 00:04:37,709 looking at it and thought, this was around 132 00:04:37,709 --> 00:04:40,129 02/1516, 133 00:04:40,189 --> 00:04:42,110 right, when we really started to go into 134 00:04:42,110 --> 00:04:44,589 the space. And at that time, it was 135 00:04:44,589 --> 00:04:46,529 one of health care's best kept secrets. 136 00:04:47,470 --> 00:04:49,629 Not the case anymore. Right? But at the 137 00:04:49,629 --> 00:04:50,129 time, 138 00:04:50,455 --> 00:04:51,915 it was a population, 139 00:04:52,615 --> 00:04:54,634 and this persists today, unfortunately, 140 00:04:56,455 --> 00:04:59,435 but it it's a population where there's significant 141 00:04:59,654 --> 00:05:00,154 costs. 142 00:05:00,535 --> 00:05:00,935 So, 143 00:05:01,335 --> 00:05:03,975 the predecessor towards end state from end stage 144 00:05:03,975 --> 00:05:05,355 renal disease, which means 145 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,339 you're at kidney failure and you need dialysis 146 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:09,220 or a transplant. 147 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,420 Before that, you're in chronic kidney disease, 148 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:16,240 CKD. There's five stages of that. One is 149 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,920 the least severe and five is the most 150 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:18,420 severe. 151 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,800 And what we saw in the data was 152 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:21,300 that 153 00:05:21,685 --> 00:05:23,384 every time an individual 154 00:05:23,685 --> 00:05:24,185 progressed 155 00:05:24,805 --> 00:05:27,144 from one stage to the next, 156 00:05:27,925 --> 00:05:30,485 their costs would increase. Their per member per 157 00:05:30,485 --> 00:05:33,125 month PMPM cost would increase, and it would 158 00:05:33,125 --> 00:05:35,220 have a step function increase. Right? So on 159 00:05:35,220 --> 00:05:37,399 average, there's a big jump each time. 160 00:05:37,779 --> 00:05:40,259 The biggest jump being going from stage five 161 00:05:40,259 --> 00:05:40,759 towards 162 00:05:41,139 --> 00:05:43,139 ESRD because you have to then be on 163 00:05:43,139 --> 00:05:43,639 dialysis. 164 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:47,060 So that was one problem statement that in 165 00:05:47,060 --> 00:05:47,560 itself 166 00:05:48,020 --> 00:05:49,480 just didn't seem to be, 167 00:05:50,074 --> 00:05:51,295 addressed by anyone. 168 00:05:52,235 --> 00:05:55,215 Then when you looked at just the fragmented 169 00:05:55,435 --> 00:05:57,675 health care delivery system, right, the nature of 170 00:05:57,675 --> 00:05:59,835 that creates a lot of clinical gaps for 171 00:05:59,835 --> 00:06:00,574 these patients. 172 00:06:01,675 --> 00:06:04,329 It's it's you got doctors doing their absolute 173 00:06:04,329 --> 00:06:06,410 best, very good doctors doing their best who 174 00:06:06,410 --> 00:06:08,810 are seeing these members. But because these members 175 00:06:08,810 --> 00:06:10,509 are seeing so many different doctors 176 00:06:11,449 --> 00:06:11,930 and, 177 00:06:12,569 --> 00:06:14,569 getting care from other places as well and 178 00:06:14,569 --> 00:06:17,935 getting scripts and, you know, guidance and advice, 179 00:06:18,394 --> 00:06:20,254 it can conflict or be overwhelming 180 00:06:20,555 --> 00:06:21,454 for the patient. 181 00:06:21,995 --> 00:06:24,235 And that creates challenges for, you know, the 182 00:06:24,314 --> 00:06:25,454 really the whole population. 183 00:06:26,555 --> 00:06:28,814 And if you do find yourself 184 00:06:29,639 --> 00:06:32,300 progressing towards that end stage, I mean, the 185 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,540 the stark reality of it is, 186 00:06:34,919 --> 00:06:36,379 at that point, you're facing 187 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:39,959 a much higher mortality rate, so higher chance 188 00:06:39,959 --> 00:06:42,300 of death. Or if you go into dialysis, 189 00:06:43,055 --> 00:06:44,354 that is a life altering 190 00:06:45,055 --> 00:06:48,495 and life sustaining therapy. Right? So life altering 191 00:06:48,495 --> 00:06:50,574 not for the better, but, really, it's a 192 00:06:50,574 --> 00:06:53,055 challenge. It's a physical and mental challenge. It's 193 00:06:53,055 --> 00:06:55,694 an exhausting process for someone. To give you 194 00:06:55,694 --> 00:06:56,354 a sense, 195 00:06:56,735 --> 00:06:57,475 if you're 196 00:06:57,979 --> 00:06:59,600 on in center hemodialysis, 197 00:07:00,939 --> 00:07:03,419 you're going three to four times a week 198 00:07:03,419 --> 00:07:05,600 for about four hours at a time, 199 00:07:06,060 --> 00:07:08,300 and you're hooked up to a dialysis machine, 200 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:09,919 which is essentially doing 201 00:07:10,379 --> 00:07:11,979 the job that your kidneys are meant to 202 00:07:11,979 --> 00:07:13,845 do all day, doing it in in a 203 00:07:14,084 --> 00:07:15,545 compressed time in four hours. 204 00:07:16,004 --> 00:07:16,504 That's, 205 00:07:16,964 --> 00:07:19,685 again, exhausting to the patient, but also what 206 00:07:19,685 --> 00:07:21,785 a what a consumption of your time. 207 00:07:22,165 --> 00:07:23,704 It that really does change, 208 00:07:24,324 --> 00:07:25,305 change your life. 209 00:07:25,685 --> 00:07:28,004 And I'd say, sadly, eighty percent or so 210 00:07:28,004 --> 00:07:29,704 of the people who start 211 00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:32,560 dialysis, quote, unquote, crash into dialysis, 212 00:07:33,020 --> 00:07:35,040 meaning it wasn't a planned entry, 213 00:07:35,740 --> 00:07:38,879 and oftentimes that's associated with the hospital admission. 214 00:07:38,939 --> 00:07:41,740 So you had some tragic event happen in 215 00:07:41,740 --> 00:07:44,125 your life, You got admitted to the hospital. 216 00:07:44,125 --> 00:07:46,144 Usually, it's a fairly complicated admission. 217 00:07:46,845 --> 00:07:48,944 And at that point, you know, your kidney 218 00:07:49,324 --> 00:07:51,644 disease is getting its attention, but you're you're 219 00:07:51,644 --> 00:07:54,045 at the end. And so it's almost like 220 00:07:54,045 --> 00:07:56,205 a reactive level of dialysis, which can lead 221 00:07:56,205 --> 00:07:59,000 to a lot of complications. So just 222 00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:01,779 with all of those problem statements stacking up, 223 00:08:01,779 --> 00:08:04,920 both the financial, the clinical, the patient experience, 224 00:08:04,980 --> 00:08:05,720 the providers 225 00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:08,660 feeling frustrated as well because they wanna be 226 00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:10,454 treating these members as best as they possibly 227 00:08:10,454 --> 00:08:12,055 can, but they don't always have all the 228 00:08:12,055 --> 00:08:14,714 information at their fingertips to do so. 229 00:08:15,095 --> 00:08:16,794 We just saw that there is this 230 00:08:17,095 --> 00:08:18,794 nexus, right, this opportunity 231 00:08:19,175 --> 00:08:22,055 for that, you know, quadruple aim, that that 232 00:08:22,055 --> 00:08:25,009 people strive for, but particularly for this population, 233 00:08:25,709 --> 00:08:26,689 where if you could 234 00:08:27,550 --> 00:08:28,050 drive 235 00:08:28,350 --> 00:08:28,850 information 236 00:08:29,389 --> 00:08:29,889 to 237 00:08:30,350 --> 00:08:31,009 the right 238 00:08:31,470 --> 00:08:31,970 provider 239 00:08:32,509 --> 00:08:33,809 and to the member 240 00:08:34,509 --> 00:08:37,149 and help to guide and potentially close some 241 00:08:37,149 --> 00:08:39,855 care gaps, but also empower that member on 242 00:08:39,855 --> 00:08:40,754 their journey 243 00:08:41,375 --> 00:08:43,294 and put them in a position to really 244 00:08:43,294 --> 00:08:46,034 manage their care and be proactive about it, 245 00:08:46,254 --> 00:08:48,674 there was that opportunity for lower costs, 246 00:08:49,134 --> 00:08:50,514 better quality of care, 247 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:52,960 a better patient experience, and a better provider 248 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:53,460 experience. 249 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,000 So I think we did a decent amount 250 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,660 of research, 251 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,279 before we really decided to go down this 252 00:08:59,279 --> 00:09:01,360 path to be able to really verify all 253 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,524 those things and to also see if we 254 00:09:03,524 --> 00:09:05,125 thought we could make a difference in the 255 00:09:05,125 --> 00:09:07,524 space. And once we got to yes, there 256 00:09:07,524 --> 00:09:08,745 was no turning back. 257 00:09:09,365 --> 00:09:11,125 Mhmm. And and, Joe, you mentioned that the 258 00:09:11,125 --> 00:09:13,284 the per member per month cost keeps going 259 00:09:13,284 --> 00:09:14,264 up as members 260 00:09:14,565 --> 00:09:16,679 progress within their kidney disease. 261 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:18,840 You're speaking to a lot of health plans 262 00:09:18,899 --> 00:09:21,379 right now. So what's your core message to 263 00:09:21,379 --> 00:09:23,139 them in terms of why these plans should 264 00:09:23,139 --> 00:09:23,879 be focusing 265 00:09:24,419 --> 00:09:27,159 on their CKD and ESRD population? 266 00:09:28,419 --> 00:09:30,404 Yeah. I I think it's a great point. 267 00:09:30,565 --> 00:09:33,764 I I think the core message is, yes, 268 00:09:33,764 --> 00:09:35,384 there are escalating costs 269 00:09:35,845 --> 00:09:36,825 for this population. 270 00:09:38,965 --> 00:09:40,745 And anything you can do 271 00:09:41,445 --> 00:09:43,269 to slow that progression 272 00:09:43,809 --> 00:09:45,649 and keep a member in a healthy state 273 00:09:45,649 --> 00:09:46,870 is good for your members, 274 00:09:47,330 --> 00:09:50,049 and it's financially going to be beneficial for 275 00:09:50,049 --> 00:09:51,590 them, for the health plan. 276 00:09:52,290 --> 00:09:54,610 And if you partner with someone like HealthMap 277 00:09:54,610 --> 00:09:57,910 for for the for HealthMap as well, because 278 00:09:58,304 --> 00:10:00,164 a good partner is going to take risk 279 00:10:00,225 --> 00:10:02,644 in their ability to deliver on that value. 280 00:10:03,345 --> 00:10:03,924 I think 281 00:10:05,184 --> 00:10:06,404 addressing this population 282 00:10:06,945 --> 00:10:07,985 who is, 283 00:10:08,384 --> 00:10:09,365 multi chronic, 284 00:10:09,825 --> 00:10:10,964 so multiple comorbidities 285 00:10:11,745 --> 00:10:12,779 and high cost, 286 00:10:13,340 --> 00:10:14,560 there's a great opportunity 287 00:10:15,019 --> 00:10:15,519 to 288 00:10:15,899 --> 00:10:18,000 improve their health. But also, 289 00:10:18,620 --> 00:10:20,860 if I'm sitting in a health plan shoes, 290 00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:22,700 if I bring myself back to those days 291 00:10:22,700 --> 00:10:24,540 that I worked at a health plan, I'd 292 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:26,720 be looking at this group and saying, well, 293 00:10:28,054 --> 00:10:30,454 there's a revenue opportunity here as well. Right? 294 00:10:30,454 --> 00:10:32,315 There's a clinical opportunity, which 295 00:10:33,014 --> 00:10:33,674 is paramount, 296 00:10:34,375 --> 00:10:36,875 which translates into a cost savings opportunity. 297 00:10:37,254 --> 00:10:39,434 There's also a revenue, a top line opportunity. 298 00:10:39,495 --> 00:10:42,190 If you can drive better quality, that should 299 00:10:42,190 --> 00:10:43,490 impact star scores, 300 00:10:43,950 --> 00:10:45,789 if you're a Medicare plan or quality scores, 301 00:10:45,789 --> 00:10:46,990 you know, if you're in any other type 302 00:10:46,990 --> 00:10:50,110 of plan. And there's also the opportunity to 303 00:10:50,110 --> 00:10:51,009 make sure that 304 00:10:51,470 --> 00:10:52,610 chronic repeatable 305 00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:53,789 diagnosis codes are appropriately recaptured. People will think 306 00:10:53,789 --> 00:10:54,289 about 307 00:10:54,909 --> 00:10:55,409 HCC 308 00:11:04,544 --> 00:11:05,044 clinical, 309 00:11:05,985 --> 00:11:09,500 intervention, right? Because it's the way through which 310 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,860 one provider can communicate to another provider asynchronously 311 00:11:13,159 --> 00:11:15,159 about what's going on with that patient. If 312 00:11:15,159 --> 00:11:16,379 you have the appropriate 313 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,299 level of codes recaptured 314 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:21,960 and shared and communicated across providers as you're 315 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,115 coordinating care, 316 00:11:23,995 --> 00:11:25,595 then, the patient will get, 317 00:11:26,235 --> 00:11:28,735 better and more appropriate care. And and really, 318 00:11:29,115 --> 00:11:31,134 that's our goal. So I think 319 00:11:31,674 --> 00:11:34,174 for the health plans, this should 320 00:11:34,554 --> 00:11:36,480 scratch all of the itches that that that 321 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:37,620 they're focused on. 322 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,240 Again, it's how will this impact top line? 323 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,399 How will this impact a reduction in cost? 324 00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:44,960 Will my members be happier as a result 325 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,660 of us managing this holistically? 326 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,919 Will my providers be happier? And and it 327 00:11:49,919 --> 00:11:51,075 checks all of those boxes. 328 00:11:51,554 --> 00:11:53,394 Boxes. Absolutely. And it sounds like it makes 329 00:11:53,394 --> 00:11:55,875 a lot of financial sense, especially for for 330 00:11:55,875 --> 00:11:58,455 health plans to really focus on this population 331 00:11:58,514 --> 00:12:00,995 specifically, Joe. I have to ask, how do 332 00:12:00,995 --> 00:12:03,715 data analytics and technology come into play here 333 00:12:03,715 --> 00:12:05,415 within HealthMap's program? 334 00:12:06,419 --> 00:12:07,080 Great question, 335 00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:10,440 in many different ways. So, 336 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:12,839 you know, in the early days, 337 00:12:13,220 --> 00:12:16,679 and it continues through today, we really focused 338 00:12:16,820 --> 00:12:19,879 on being highly analytical in what we did. 339 00:12:20,179 --> 00:12:22,964 So, you know, there's there's that Pareto that 340 00:12:22,964 --> 00:12:24,424 everyone will reference where 341 00:12:24,964 --> 00:12:27,444 across the board, not just for kidney members, 342 00:12:27,444 --> 00:12:29,944 but across the board, about five percent 343 00:12:30,245 --> 00:12:30,985 of the population 344 00:12:31,365 --> 00:12:33,464 consumes 50% of healthcare expenditures. 345 00:12:34,804 --> 00:12:36,024 So it's highly concentrated. 346 00:12:37,419 --> 00:12:38,320 It's not as concentrated 347 00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:39,919 in kidney disease, 348 00:12:40,299 --> 00:12:41,980 but it there is a level of concentration. 349 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:42,480 So 350 00:12:44,139 --> 00:12:46,240 for the populations we manage, 351 00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:50,379 we found that somewhere between 25 to 30% 352 00:12:50,379 --> 00:12:53,120 of the members are going to consume 80% 353 00:12:53,144 --> 00:12:54,524 of the healthcare costs. 354 00:12:55,625 --> 00:12:58,524 And being able to identify those members 355 00:12:59,225 --> 00:13:01,325 is really important. I think the 356 00:13:02,105 --> 00:13:04,264 the the mistake or or the misnomer is 357 00:13:04,264 --> 00:13:07,304 that all kidney members, because they're so, they 358 00:13:07,304 --> 00:13:07,440 have 359 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:09,306 have a lot of comorbidities, they're all going 360 00:13:09,306 --> 00:13:09,940 to be very 361 00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:13,059 high cost. Not necessarily the case. It fluctuates. 362 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,240 And so you have to be able to 363 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:14,740 identify 364 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:15,940 which members 365 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,299 are going to represent 366 00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:19,620 significant costs in the future 367 00:13:19,995 --> 00:13:22,075 so that you can find them during that 368 00:13:22,075 --> 00:13:22,975 window of 369 00:13:23,274 --> 00:13:25,914 opportunity where you could prevent progression of disease 370 00:13:25,914 --> 00:13:26,414 states. 371 00:13:26,715 --> 00:13:29,514 That might be kidney disease, but we also 372 00:13:29,514 --> 00:13:31,855 are very focused on all of the comorbidities 373 00:13:32,154 --> 00:13:33,215 because the driver 374 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,179 of advancing kidney disease tends to be 375 00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:39,139 unchecked diabetes or unchecked hypertension. 376 00:13:39,759 --> 00:13:42,720 So really, we've created a program that's holistic 377 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,740 in nature because we're managing 378 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,120 not only their kidney disease, but also the 379 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:48,339 the patient's comorbidities. 380 00:13:48,995 --> 00:13:51,894 We're looking at other things that might impact 381 00:13:51,954 --> 00:13:54,514 their ability to manage that care. Right? So 382 00:13:54,514 --> 00:13:58,195 it it goes beyond the the clinical disease 383 00:13:58,195 --> 00:13:58,695 itself. 384 00:13:59,154 --> 00:14:01,315 Behavioral health is a clinical disease. We'll look 385 00:14:01,315 --> 00:14:03,899 at behavioral health. We will also look at 386 00:14:03,899 --> 00:14:06,779 social determinants of health. We're really motivated and 387 00:14:06,779 --> 00:14:08,240 focused on just improving, 388 00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:10,700 the access to care, the quality of care, 389 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,100 and the coordination of care for, all of 390 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:14,080 our patients. 391 00:14:14,940 --> 00:14:17,259 So I would say I'd put that into 392 00:14:17,259 --> 00:14:18,225 this sort of 393 00:14:18,625 --> 00:14:22,384 predictive analytics, advanced analytics bucket as bucket number 394 00:14:22,384 --> 00:14:24,324 one for tech and analytics. 395 00:14:25,424 --> 00:14:26,164 The second 396 00:14:26,544 --> 00:14:28,464 is really how do you engage with the 397 00:14:28,464 --> 00:14:28,964 population. 398 00:14:29,345 --> 00:14:29,845 So 399 00:14:31,259 --> 00:14:32,159 digital engagement 400 00:14:33,019 --> 00:14:34,000 is really critical. 401 00:14:34,779 --> 00:14:37,019 You know, we at HealthMap, we, 402 00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:40,139 we've always had a focus on this, but 403 00:14:40,139 --> 00:14:41,440 we recently acquired 404 00:14:41,899 --> 00:14:43,199 a company called Carium, 405 00:14:43,579 --> 00:14:44,720 which is really a 406 00:14:45,485 --> 00:14:46,945 phenomenal they built a phenomenal 407 00:14:47,644 --> 00:14:48,465 digital ecosystem 408 00:14:49,404 --> 00:14:49,904 for 409 00:14:50,365 --> 00:14:50,865 providers, 410 00:14:52,045 --> 00:14:52,545 members, 411 00:14:52,925 --> 00:14:53,425 and 412 00:14:53,805 --> 00:14:55,745 I use the word members and patients interchangeably, 413 00:14:56,045 --> 00:14:57,585 but providers, patients, 414 00:14:57,965 --> 00:15:00,659 and really health map to be coexisting and 415 00:15:00,659 --> 00:15:01,559 sharing information. 416 00:15:02,179 --> 00:15:04,519 And I think digital engagement is 417 00:15:04,899 --> 00:15:07,000 just so critical. I think titrating 418 00:15:07,379 --> 00:15:09,240 your level of engagement with 419 00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:11,240 patients is really important. 420 00:15:11,860 --> 00:15:13,940 What I mean by that is you could 421 00:15:13,940 --> 00:15:14,179 have, 422 00:15:15,325 --> 00:15:17,345 somebody who's CKD three 423 00:15:17,964 --> 00:15:18,464 has, 424 00:15:19,084 --> 00:15:20,625 you know, heart failure, 425 00:15:21,004 --> 00:15:21,504 has 426 00:15:22,125 --> 00:15:22,865 is diabetic, 427 00:15:23,245 --> 00:15:26,284 and is a smoker, and also can't really 428 00:15:26,284 --> 00:15:27,759 get around the house so well. 429 00:15:28,139 --> 00:15:29,120 Right? That person 430 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:30,799 might need a home visit. 431 00:15:31,179 --> 00:15:33,100 So we might arrange for a home visit 432 00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:34,000 for that person. 433 00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:37,100 That doesn't mean everybody should get a home 434 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:39,519 visit. Right? There's some people in our population. 435 00:15:40,139 --> 00:15:41,985 You could be a stage four member 436 00:15:42,384 --> 00:15:45,125 who is actually really well managed. You 437 00:15:45,904 --> 00:15:47,105 can be a stage four member who is 438 00:15:47,105 --> 00:15:49,345 really empowered. You have great control of your 439 00:15:49,345 --> 00:15:50,945 health. You know what kind of foods you 440 00:15:50,945 --> 00:15:52,784 should be eating. You know the medications you 441 00:15:52,784 --> 00:15:55,199 should be on. You've got a really great 442 00:15:55,199 --> 00:15:57,600 schedule of seeing your providers at the right 443 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,839 time, you're getting your labs done so you're 444 00:15:59,839 --> 00:16:00,899 monitoring your 445 00:16:01,279 --> 00:16:01,779 health, 446 00:16:02,799 --> 00:16:03,539 that person 447 00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:07,199 would scoff at a home visit, right? We 448 00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:08,865 would say we wanna, we said we wanna 449 00:16:08,865 --> 00:16:10,945 put someone in your home, they'd say they 450 00:16:10,945 --> 00:16:13,184 might say, look. I'm really busy. No thanks. 451 00:16:13,184 --> 00:16:13,845 I'm good. 452 00:16:14,225 --> 00:16:15,764 But they could use 453 00:16:16,225 --> 00:16:18,404 something simple like digital engagement 454 00:16:18,785 --> 00:16:20,165 of medication reminders. 455 00:16:20,545 --> 00:16:22,509 They might still be on quite a lot 456 00:16:22,509 --> 00:16:24,429 of different drugs, and they could use a 457 00:16:24,429 --> 00:16:26,990 reminder for, don't forget to take this med 458 00:16:26,990 --> 00:16:29,230 today, or, hey, don't forget this script is 459 00:16:29,230 --> 00:16:31,149 running out. Just make sure that, you know, 460 00:16:31,149 --> 00:16:32,209 we get it refilled. 461 00:16:32,909 --> 00:16:33,409 So 462 00:16:34,269 --> 00:16:34,769 there's 463 00:16:35,709 --> 00:16:38,049 a a a wide array of 464 00:16:38,565 --> 00:16:40,904 intensity and types of modality of intervention 465 00:16:41,365 --> 00:16:43,445 that you have. And I think having the 466 00:16:43,445 --> 00:16:44,585 technology capabilities 467 00:16:45,845 --> 00:16:48,725 to modulate that well is really important, and 468 00:16:48,725 --> 00:16:50,325 that's another way it plays a role for 469 00:16:50,325 --> 00:16:51,144 us at HealthMap. 470 00:16:51,529 --> 00:16:53,230 And then, you know, I've kind of 471 00:16:53,769 --> 00:16:56,110 tiptoed around AI with predictive analytics, 472 00:16:56,809 --> 00:16:58,730 so far, but our third bucket would really 473 00:16:58,730 --> 00:17:00,490 be AI. Right? 474 00:17:01,290 --> 00:17:04,750 We're investing in this. We're leveraging it for 475 00:17:06,464 --> 00:17:07,125 your traditional 476 00:17:07,505 --> 00:17:10,304 machine learning predictive analytics, like I mentioned ear 477 00:17:10,384 --> 00:17:10,884 earlier, 478 00:17:11,585 --> 00:17:14,944 but we're also using it leveraging generative AI. 479 00:17:14,944 --> 00:17:17,845 Right? And so far, we're keeping that mostly 480 00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:18,960 inwardly focused, 481 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,039 but we have an AI digital assistant that, 482 00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:25,619 supports our clinicians as they're speaking with 483 00:17:26,159 --> 00:17:29,440 providers and members. We have the capabilities that 484 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,019 just makes our team way more efficient 485 00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:33,460 just as they're 486 00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:36,254 prepping for a call with a provider or 487 00:17:36,254 --> 00:17:37,634 with a patient, for instance. 488 00:17:38,254 --> 00:17:38,994 So that 489 00:17:39,454 --> 00:17:42,754 they're spending less and less time on administrative 490 00:17:42,974 --> 00:17:45,454 work and more and more time practicing at 491 00:17:45,454 --> 00:17:46,994 the top of their clinical license. 492 00:17:47,454 --> 00:17:49,454 It just puts the puts a clinician in 493 00:17:49,454 --> 00:17:50,355 a different mindset. 494 00:17:51,049 --> 00:17:53,289 We all hear about physician burnout, right, and 495 00:17:53,289 --> 00:17:54,349 being having to 496 00:17:55,049 --> 00:17:57,609 document and over document and review all the 497 00:17:57,609 --> 00:17:58,109 documentation. 498 00:17:58,890 --> 00:18:02,509 And it it ends up creating this unbalanced 499 00:18:02,730 --> 00:18:04,755 approach where so much of their time can 500 00:18:04,755 --> 00:18:05,255 be, 501 00:18:06,035 --> 00:18:08,375 a physician's time could be focused on administration 502 00:18:08,515 --> 00:18:10,355 as opposed to actually being in front of 503 00:18:10,355 --> 00:18:12,775 the patient or being present with that patient. 504 00:18:13,714 --> 00:18:16,134 We hear about that happening in the marketplace. 505 00:18:16,529 --> 00:18:18,210 We wanna make sure that does not happen 506 00:18:18,210 --> 00:18:19,029 here at HealthMap. 507 00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:21,170 So we're leveraging AI to do that so 508 00:18:21,170 --> 00:18:23,509 that when one of our care navigators, 509 00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:24,869 which is typically 510 00:18:25,250 --> 00:18:25,830 an RN, 511 00:18:26,210 --> 00:18:28,070 is in front of a a patient, 512 00:18:28,690 --> 00:18:31,154 they can spend the time really 513 00:18:31,455 --> 00:18:34,115 empathizing with that patient, doing motivational interviewing, 514 00:18:34,654 --> 00:18:35,055 and, 515 00:18:35,455 --> 00:18:37,295 you know, practicing at the top of their 516 00:18:37,295 --> 00:18:38,195 license. So 517 00:18:38,575 --> 00:18:40,174 I think those those are the ways that 518 00:18:40,174 --> 00:18:41,855 we're using it so far. And, 519 00:18:42,335 --> 00:18:44,095 you know, AI is a brave new world. 520 00:18:44,095 --> 00:18:46,220 We'll figure out the right ways to deploy 521 00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:47,899 it. We're cautious with it as at the 522 00:18:47,899 --> 00:18:48,559 same time, 523 00:18:49,179 --> 00:18:52,299 and making sure that, there's always a human 524 00:18:52,299 --> 00:18:54,619 being between the AI and the patient or 525 00:18:54,619 --> 00:18:56,960 the provider. We think that's important right now, 526 00:18:57,259 --> 00:18:59,359 especially when it's in its nascent phase. 527 00:19:00,204 --> 00:19:01,964 Absolutely. And let me hook on there to 528 00:19:01,964 --> 00:19:04,365 your last few points, Joe, about, your your 529 00:19:04,365 --> 00:19:06,304 clinical team and the work they do because 530 00:19:06,444 --> 00:19:08,125 you mentioned this is all about improving the 531 00:19:08,125 --> 00:19:11,264 quality and coordination of care for for members. 532 00:19:12,204 --> 00:19:14,284 As as you know, managing kidney disease requires 533 00:19:14,284 --> 00:19:16,159 very very specific clinical expertise. 534 00:19:16,460 --> 00:19:19,259 So how does HealthMap's clinical team support members 535 00:19:19,259 --> 00:19:21,599 and providers effectively throughout this journey? 536 00:19:22,539 --> 00:19:24,220 Yeah. I'm I'm glad you asked because I'm 537 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:26,380 I'm so proud of our clinical teams. I 538 00:19:26,380 --> 00:19:27,045 really am. 539 00:19:28,005 --> 00:19:30,085 We so first, they're they're led by our 540 00:19:30,085 --> 00:19:32,904 chief medical officer, doctor Howard Chaps, who's, 541 00:19:33,445 --> 00:19:34,744 you know, practiced as 542 00:19:35,605 --> 00:19:38,085 a a phys ER physician, actually, and, and 543 00:19:38,085 --> 00:19:39,545 also was at 544 00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:40,440 Centene, 545 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:42,519 previously WellCare. 546 00:19:43,059 --> 00:19:43,559 So 547 00:19:44,580 --> 00:19:46,259 I would I would say, you know, between 548 00:19:46,259 --> 00:19:48,200 him and we have, wonderful, 549 00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:51,299 nephrology medical directors, we have a scientific advisory 550 00:19:51,299 --> 00:19:51,799 board, 551 00:19:56,545 --> 00:19:59,924 of multiple specialties, nephrologists, internal medicine, cardiologists, 552 00:20:00,384 --> 00:20:02,005 you know, pharmacists, etcetera, 553 00:20:02,464 --> 00:20:03,205 and endocrinologists. 554 00:20:03,664 --> 00:20:04,325 That group, 555 00:20:04,945 --> 00:20:06,990 collectively, I think of as kind of the 556 00:20:07,069 --> 00:20:09,150 the clinical brain of the program, so to 557 00:20:09,150 --> 00:20:09,650 speak. 558 00:20:10,109 --> 00:20:10,589 And, 559 00:20:10,910 --> 00:20:12,369 what they're really doing is 560 00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:15,170 designing the right care pathways and protocols 561 00:20:16,029 --> 00:20:18,269 to be able to be shared with our 562 00:20:18,269 --> 00:20:19,250 our care navigators, 563 00:20:19,549 --> 00:20:21,950 our our clinicians who are care navigators. Those 564 00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:22,305 are 565 00:20:22,865 --> 00:20:23,365 RNs, 566 00:20:24,065 --> 00:20:26,164 sometimes nurse practitioners as well. 567 00:20:26,625 --> 00:20:28,865 They're a combination of people who are in 568 00:20:28,865 --> 00:20:31,045 the field, so they could be 569 00:20:31,424 --> 00:20:33,105 face to face with the provider as we're 570 00:20:33,105 --> 00:20:35,985 interacting with, you know, the the providers or 571 00:20:35,985 --> 00:20:37,539 they could be, you know, 572 00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:39,460 remote and they could be telephonically 573 00:20:39,759 --> 00:20:40,259 interacting. 574 00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:44,179 Our clinical model is structured so that 575 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,740 we take an entire population 576 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:48,419 and we identify, 577 00:20:49,694 --> 00:20:52,414 the physicians that they're currently seeing, right? So 578 00:20:52,414 --> 00:20:53,154 they see 579 00:20:53,694 --> 00:20:55,454 a lot of different types of physicians, but 580 00:20:55,454 --> 00:20:57,234 primarily they'll be seeing PCPs, 581 00:20:57,694 --> 00:20:58,194 nephrologists, 582 00:20:59,294 --> 00:20:59,794 endocrinologists, 583 00:21:00,255 --> 00:21:02,674 and cardiologists, just given their comorbidities. 584 00:21:03,134 --> 00:21:04,559 That's what we tend to find. 585 00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:07,279 And what we'll do is we go into 586 00:21:07,279 --> 00:21:09,360 the model our clinical model is one where 587 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:09,940 we're not 588 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,980 trying to compete with those providers. 589 00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:15,380 We are very much working 590 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,519 alongside them. In fact, we're an extension of 591 00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:17,954 their 592 00:21:18,434 --> 00:21:21,075 practice. Right? So I think that really sets 593 00:21:21,075 --> 00:21:22,534 us apart because 594 00:21:22,835 --> 00:21:24,515 if you go in and you compete with 595 00:21:24,515 --> 00:21:26,595 a provider in a given market, all of 596 00:21:26,595 --> 00:21:27,174 a sudden, 597 00:21:27,474 --> 00:21:29,634 you know, the the lines of communication are 598 00:21:29,634 --> 00:21:32,034 a little bit harder and care coordination can 599 00:21:32,034 --> 00:21:34,400 become a little bit more challenging. Right? So 600 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,920 we don't do that. We come in and 601 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,539 we're an extension of their practice. 602 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,759 There's as I said, there's some folks who 603 00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:41,359 will be feet on the street. We'll work 604 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,119 with those providers to be able to share 605 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,539 information with them that they were otherwise missing 606 00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:47,954 and highlight where there might be some care 607 00:21:47,954 --> 00:21:49,714 gaps they just didn't know about because they 608 00:21:49,714 --> 00:21:50,694 didn't have the data. 609 00:21:51,075 --> 00:21:52,214 At the same time, 610 00:21:52,674 --> 00:21:55,414 that group will be connecting to the member 611 00:21:55,794 --> 00:21:57,714 to be able to say, hey. Look. We're 612 00:21:57,714 --> 00:21:59,974 coordinating, working with your physician. 613 00:22:00,914 --> 00:22:03,609 So you have this sort of coordinated, aligned 614 00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:05,929 care team on your side supporting you. 615 00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:08,009 And let us walk you through, 616 00:22:08,869 --> 00:22:11,829 all of the challenges you're facing, and let's 617 00:22:11,829 --> 00:22:13,669 get to know you and let's help empower 618 00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:16,184 you in your journey to manage, those chronic 619 00:22:16,345 --> 00:22:18,265 conditions. And really the goal for us, our 620 00:22:18,265 --> 00:22:19,805 mission is to make it so that, 621 00:22:20,265 --> 00:22:22,765 you know, kidney disease is not the primary 622 00:22:22,904 --> 00:22:24,345 focus of their lives, that it's in the 623 00:22:24,345 --> 00:22:26,765 background because it's being so well managed. 624 00:22:27,545 --> 00:22:29,869 I'd say as those as those clinicians and 625 00:22:29,869 --> 00:22:31,809 that clinical team works together, 626 00:22:32,269 --> 00:22:34,049 they're supported as well by 627 00:22:34,509 --> 00:22:36,990 social workers and dietitians and pharmacists. So it 628 00:22:36,990 --> 00:22:38,130 really is that multidisciplinary 629 00:22:38,589 --> 00:22:40,785 team approach that we bring to our 630 00:22:41,825 --> 00:22:43,424 patients. And at the end of the day, 631 00:22:43,424 --> 00:22:45,285 they're really focused on outcomes. 632 00:22:45,585 --> 00:22:46,325 Right? So 633 00:22:47,025 --> 00:22:48,404 to give you an example, 634 00:22:49,025 --> 00:22:50,785 Jacob, that some of the outcomes that we 635 00:22:50,785 --> 00:22:51,605 have are 636 00:22:52,144 --> 00:22:53,205 slowing the progression. 637 00:22:53,585 --> 00:22:56,410 We we slow the progression by about thirty 638 00:22:56,410 --> 00:22:57,470 percent on average, 639 00:22:58,250 --> 00:22:58,750 reducing 640 00:22:59,210 --> 00:22:59,710 inpatient 641 00:23:00,090 --> 00:23:01,230 and ED visits, 642 00:23:01,930 --> 00:23:04,570 increasing plant starts to dialysis so that you 643 00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:06,910 don't have that crash that I mentioned earlier, 644 00:23:07,529 --> 00:23:10,029 and ultimately lowering cost. And I'd say 645 00:23:10,410 --> 00:23:10,570 that 646 00:23:11,505 --> 00:23:13,424 that's the crux of the whole program. I 647 00:23:13,424 --> 00:23:15,684 mentioned that quadruple aim. I mean, for us, 648 00:23:15,984 --> 00:23:18,005 we're focused, and our clinicians 649 00:23:18,384 --> 00:23:20,545 are using the the data and analytics we 650 00:23:20,545 --> 00:23:23,184 have to coordinate care, make sure that, 651 00:23:23,904 --> 00:23:26,160 the patient's on a path towards better health. 652 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,320 And what we see when we do that, 653 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,500 when you look at the sort of financial, 654 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,720 ledger, so to speak, of that, you'll see 655 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,039 physician costs go up. Right? So our health 656 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:39,279 plan partners will see some increase in physician 657 00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:42,625 costs, but that's drastically offset by a reduction 658 00:23:42,625 --> 00:23:44,724 in hospital admission costs, 659 00:23:45,105 --> 00:23:47,924 reduction in ED visits, and other facility costs. 660 00:23:48,464 --> 00:23:49,904 And that's how you know, 661 00:23:50,464 --> 00:23:51,534 really I 662 00:23:51,869 --> 00:23:53,069 I was just talking to, 663 00:23:53,549 --> 00:23:55,250 a leadership group here at HealthMap. 664 00:23:55,710 --> 00:23:58,029 That's how you know that, we are mission 665 00:23:58,029 --> 00:23:59,009 oriented because 666 00:23:59,549 --> 00:24:01,869 the wallet matches the heart. Right? Like, it's 667 00:24:01,869 --> 00:24:04,190 tied together. If we don't do better on 668 00:24:04,190 --> 00:24:06,835 on outcomes for members, we're not gonna drive 669 00:24:07,054 --> 00:24:09,534 savings. If we don't drive savings, then, you 670 00:24:09,534 --> 00:24:11,134 know, in a value in our value based 671 00:24:11,134 --> 00:24:13,794 care models, we're not getting compensated. So, 672 00:24:14,255 --> 00:24:16,335 we are very much aligned on and focused 673 00:24:16,335 --> 00:24:18,490 on that mission, and it's a it's a 674 00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:20,730 pure mission, which is, a nice place to 675 00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:21,230 be. 676 00:24:22,409 --> 00:24:24,409 Fantastic. Well, I appreciate that overview and those 677 00:24:24,409 --> 00:24:26,730 examples you shared, Joe. Some really great ones 678 00:24:26,730 --> 00:24:27,470 for our audience. 679 00:24:27,929 --> 00:24:30,490 Before we go, can you detail for us 680 00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:33,734 how HealthMap's approach has evolved over the years 681 00:24:33,734 --> 00:24:36,075 and what the future looks like for HealthMap? 682 00:24:36,855 --> 00:24:39,815 Yeah. Absolutely. I mean so the the fun 683 00:24:39,815 --> 00:24:41,494 thing about being in health care is that 684 00:24:41,494 --> 00:24:43,974 it's never stagnant. Right? The the, 685 00:24:44,615 --> 00:24:47,160 the landscape is constantly evolving, and we have 686 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,700 to keep evolving with it. 687 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,619 And and I I'd say 688 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,720 that's first and foremost for us. You know, 689 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,799 we've learned how to some of the things 690 00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:58,519 that we've we've been we've done over time 691 00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:00,700 and continue to do and improve on. 692 00:25:01,054 --> 00:25:03,615 For instance, as we grew, we've been growing 693 00:25:03,615 --> 00:25:04,434 quite a bit, 694 00:25:05,294 --> 00:25:07,375 we've learned how to tailor our delivery to 695 00:25:07,375 --> 00:25:10,035 different types of providers based on their characteristics. 696 00:25:10,734 --> 00:25:11,794 Right? Some providers, 697 00:25:12,335 --> 00:25:14,674 you might be talking to a massive group, 698 00:25:14,974 --> 00:25:16,115 and you have to 699 00:25:16,529 --> 00:25:19,490 deliver information to them and even access them 700 00:25:19,490 --> 00:25:21,410 in their time in a certain way. That 701 00:25:21,410 --> 00:25:23,250 would be very different from a small group 702 00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:24,710 or a different type of specialty. 703 00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:26,230 Sometimes, 704 00:25:26,529 --> 00:25:28,230 you know, the the age of the physician 705 00:25:28,414 --> 00:25:29,794 matters. Right? Like, 706 00:25:30,095 --> 00:25:31,934 docs coming around in med school might interact 707 00:25:31,934 --> 00:25:34,015 with you very differently than docs who've been 708 00:25:34,015 --> 00:25:36,115 practicing for thirty years. 709 00:25:36,734 --> 00:25:38,414 So we we've learned how to tailor our 710 00:25:38,414 --> 00:25:41,214 approach to physicians, and we've also learned how 711 00:25:41,214 --> 00:25:42,674 to tailor our approach to members 712 00:25:43,214 --> 00:25:44,710 based on where they're at in in their 713 00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:45,210 lives. 714 00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:46,650 And we manage 715 00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:51,049 Medicare members, Medicaid members, commercial members, exchange members, 716 00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:53,130 all have very different needs. 717 00:25:53,670 --> 00:25:56,009 So I think tailoring our approach is one. 718 00:25:57,215 --> 00:25:58,755 The other way we've evolved 719 00:25:59,055 --> 00:25:59,795 over time 720 00:26:00,174 --> 00:26:01,615 you know, I think in the early days, 721 00:26:01,615 --> 00:26:02,355 and and 722 00:26:02,815 --> 00:26:04,654 this is true of many who kind of 723 00:26:04,654 --> 00:26:07,055 go into a newer space. You see all 724 00:26:07,055 --> 00:26:07,795 this opportunity 725 00:26:08,734 --> 00:26:09,960 when you connect 726 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,159 with the external stakeholders, those providers and those 727 00:26:13,159 --> 00:26:14,059 those patients. 728 00:26:14,919 --> 00:26:16,440 You wanna be able to share all the 729 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,079 information with them all at once. And there's 730 00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:22,244 a lot of evidence based guidelines and, you 731 00:26:22,325 --> 00:26:23,625 know, care gap opportunities 732 00:26:24,565 --> 00:26:26,904 that you could throw at these patients. 733 00:26:27,765 --> 00:26:29,464 It it just tends to be, 734 00:26:29,845 --> 00:26:30,345 overwhelming 735 00:26:30,724 --> 00:26:31,384 for them. 736 00:26:32,005 --> 00:26:33,305 And when you 737 00:26:33,765 --> 00:26:36,184 when you can, first of all, curate 738 00:26:36,484 --> 00:26:39,259 your interventions, we've we've leveraged a ton of 739 00:26:39,259 --> 00:26:41,819 clinical expertise and data analytics to figure out 740 00:26:41,819 --> 00:26:42,799 how to do that, 741 00:26:43,179 --> 00:26:45,039 because it's hard to prioritize them. 742 00:26:45,579 --> 00:26:47,519 But when you can curate those 743 00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:48,400 interventions 744 00:26:49,099 --> 00:26:52,400 and narrow them down and then deliver them, 745 00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:54,000 you know, in the right sequence, 746 00:26:54,434 --> 00:26:56,434 we find that you can get a lot 747 00:26:56,434 --> 00:26:57,174 more throughput 748 00:26:58,194 --> 00:27:00,514 of compliance and care gap closure as opposed 749 00:27:00,514 --> 00:27:02,194 to trying to give them everything at once. 750 00:27:02,194 --> 00:27:03,474 If you just thought about it, it'd be 751 00:27:03,474 --> 00:27:06,194 overwhelming if I I told you, hey. I 752 00:27:06,194 --> 00:27:07,014 want you to, 753 00:27:07,474 --> 00:27:09,150 change your diet. I want you to take, 754 00:27:09,309 --> 00:27:10,750 you know, these different drugs. I want you 755 00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:12,029 to stop taking other drugs. I want you 756 00:27:12,029 --> 00:27:13,490 to see your nephrologist 757 00:27:13,869 --> 00:27:15,630 more often. I want you to go see 758 00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:17,009 a cardiologist. And, 759 00:27:17,470 --> 00:27:18,750 you know, I've got a bunch of labs 760 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:21,070 you have to take once a quarter. If 761 00:27:21,070 --> 00:27:22,430 I just gave it to you all at 762 00:27:22,430 --> 00:27:23,265 once, they would 763 00:27:23,984 --> 00:27:25,664 you might feel like you failed before you 764 00:27:25,664 --> 00:27:28,085 even started. But if all I said was, 765 00:27:28,224 --> 00:27:29,744 hey. We really think you should go see 766 00:27:29,744 --> 00:27:31,345 a nephrologist. Can we get you to a 767 00:27:31,345 --> 00:27:31,845 nephrologist? 768 00:27:32,384 --> 00:27:34,644 That's more manageable. Right? And so I think, 769 00:27:35,345 --> 00:27:38,005 we've we're along with tailoring the approach, 770 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:39,380 being able to 771 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:40,740 curate and focus, 772 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,279 the the time and attention we have with 773 00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:44,339 members and providers, 774 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,440 has been a really strong evolution in our 775 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:47,940 program. 776 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,615 Wonderful. Well, Joe, thank you so much for 777 00:27:51,615 --> 00:27:53,375 taking the time to sit down with us 778 00:27:53,375 --> 00:27:55,394 and for sharing your insights with our listeners. 779 00:27:55,454 --> 00:27:57,694 We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. 780 00:27:57,694 --> 00:27:59,214 This is a lot of fun. I appreciate 781 00:27:59,214 --> 00:28:01,535 it. Yeah. Absolutely. And I'd also like to 782 00:28:01,535 --> 00:28:04,900 thank our podcast sponsor, HealthMap Solutions. You can 783 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:07,060 tune in to more podcasts from Becker's HealthCare 784 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:11,320 by visiting our podcast page at beckershospitalreview.com.