1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,720 This is Laura Dierdo with the Becker's Healthcare 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,960 podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,320 Chris Wassel, president of marketing and strategic partnerships 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,559 at Vantage Healthcare. Chris, it's a pleasure to 5 00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:11,939 have you on the podcast today. 6 00:00:12,275 --> 00:00:14,834 It's great to be here. Now I'm looking 7 00:00:14,834 --> 00:00:16,835 forward to our discussion and really getting into 8 00:00:16,835 --> 00:00:18,515 some of the big things that you're seeing 9 00:00:18,515 --> 00:00:19,574 in health care today, 10 00:00:19,875 --> 00:00:22,035 what you're looking forward to, and what you're 11 00:00:22,035 --> 00:00:24,195 excited about in terms of growth and development 12 00:00:24,195 --> 00:00:25,875 for the next year. But before we dive 13 00:00:25,875 --> 00:00:26,855 into my questions, 14 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:28,199 can you tell me a little bit more 15 00:00:28,199 --> 00:00:29,980 about yourself and Vantage Healthcare? 16 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,039 Yeah. Sure. So, again, I'm the head of 17 00:00:34,039 --> 00:00:35,899 strategy and development for, 18 00:00:36,679 --> 00:00:39,755 for Vantage. I have over 20 years experience 19 00:00:39,814 --> 00:00:41,994 in health care operations, development, 20 00:00:42,375 --> 00:00:45,594 value based payment, consulting, and network development. 21 00:00:46,614 --> 00:00:48,715 Prior to joining Vantage, I was 22 00:00:49,335 --> 00:00:51,354 a co managing director of 23 00:00:51,670 --> 00:00:54,149 Post Acute Care Planning Services, which is an 24 00:00:54,149 --> 00:00:54,649 organization 25 00:00:55,829 --> 00:00:56,649 that provides 26 00:00:57,429 --> 00:01:00,009 management and consulting services for ACOs, 27 00:01:01,350 --> 00:01:02,409 looking to build 28 00:01:02,710 --> 00:01:04,810 a post acute care provider network. 29 00:01:05,715 --> 00:01:09,094 Also was the cofounder of Accountacare, which is 30 00:01:09,234 --> 00:01:10,134 a health information 31 00:01:10,754 --> 00:01:12,454 technology company that 32 00:01:12,994 --> 00:01:13,494 works 33 00:01:14,034 --> 00:01:15,415 with value based payment 34 00:01:16,515 --> 00:01:19,254 organizations, particularly ACOs and 35 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,579 hospitals that are involved in, 36 00:01:22,359 --> 00:01:23,340 bundled payment, 37 00:01:25,239 --> 00:01:25,739 models. 38 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,719 Vantage Healthcare, just some background on Vantage. So 39 00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:30,700 we're the largest 40 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:31,500 provider 41 00:01:32,954 --> 00:01:35,594 practice of its type in the northeast. We 42 00:01:35,594 --> 00:01:37,774 operate in the 6 New England states. 43 00:01:38,875 --> 00:01:40,734 We have over a 100 providers, 44 00:01:41,354 --> 00:01:42,814 physicians, nurse practitioners, 45 00:01:43,994 --> 00:01:45,694 care nurse care coordinators. 46 00:01:45,994 --> 00:01:47,375 We operate in over 47 00:01:48,019 --> 00:01:48,519 200 48 00:01:49,299 --> 00:01:52,680 skilled nursing facilities in assisted living communities throughout 49 00:01:53,140 --> 00:01:53,879 New England. 50 00:01:55,219 --> 00:01:55,719 And 51 00:01:56,340 --> 00:01:57,399 we operate 52 00:01:57,859 --> 00:02:00,899 in a couple of some value based payment 53 00:02:00,899 --> 00:02:02,359 programs. So one is 54 00:02:03,004 --> 00:02:03,504 MSSP 55 00:02:04,204 --> 00:02:04,704 ACO. 56 00:02:06,765 --> 00:02:07,825 We plan to 57 00:02:08,444 --> 00:02:11,485 participate in the guide model CMS guide model 58 00:02:11,485 --> 00:02:12,784 for dementia care. 59 00:02:13,405 --> 00:02:13,905 And 60 00:02:14,969 --> 00:02:17,150 you know, we plan to be very involved 61 00:02:17,370 --> 00:02:17,870 into 62 00:02:18,169 --> 00:02:20,030 the new model for 63 00:02:21,449 --> 00:02:21,949 2,020 64 00:02:22,729 --> 00:02:24,430 the team model, so 65 00:02:25,930 --> 00:02:27,550 model for hospitals 66 00:02:28,250 --> 00:02:29,290 as well. So 67 00:02:30,914 --> 00:02:33,094 That's amazing to hear. And, you know, certainly, 68 00:02:33,235 --> 00:02:35,235 just very much on the cutting edge of 69 00:02:35,235 --> 00:02:37,235 how health care seems to be evolving and 70 00:02:37,235 --> 00:02:38,455 cool that you have the opportunity 71 00:02:38,754 --> 00:02:42,034 to participate with the team model and see 72 00:02:42,034 --> 00:02:43,199 where that goes. So, 73 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,400 I'm excited to learn more, as we go 74 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,400 through our conversation here. What are some of 75 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,319 the biggest issues that you're following in health 76 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:52,400 care right now is and headed into the 77 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:53,060 new year? 78 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,539 Yeah. So for 79 00:02:56,235 --> 00:02:56,974 for us, 80 00:02:57,914 --> 00:02:59,694 the biggest issues are 81 00:02:59,995 --> 00:03:03,294 around the expansion of our ACO patient 82 00:03:03,914 --> 00:03:04,414 population 83 00:03:05,034 --> 00:03:07,294 expansion. So in 2025, 84 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,340 we plan on adding all of our 85 00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:15,260 assisted living patient population to the ACO. So 86 00:03:15,879 --> 00:03:18,540 in this year as we started our participation, 87 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,145 we've had our skilled nursing facility population 88 00:03:22,604 --> 00:03:24,544 in the ACO and we'll be adding 89 00:03:24,844 --> 00:03:27,104 the assisted living to that. Our top challenges 90 00:03:27,884 --> 00:03:28,384 to 91 00:03:28,685 --> 00:03:31,425 realize better care and cost outcomes 92 00:03:32,125 --> 00:03:33,104 around that 93 00:03:34,009 --> 00:03:36,489 is, first of all, the challenges that skilled 94 00:03:36,489 --> 00:03:39,689 nursing facilities and assisted living communities have around 95 00:03:39,689 --> 00:03:40,189 staffing. 96 00:03:40,889 --> 00:03:44,109 So we, as a practice, depend on facility 97 00:03:44,250 --> 00:03:45,310 staff to identify 98 00:03:46,254 --> 00:03:48,574 patient issues that may result in, 99 00:03:48,895 --> 00:03:51,935 transfer to the emergency department. So, you know, 100 00:03:51,935 --> 00:03:52,754 we're working, 101 00:03:53,615 --> 00:03:55,875 and and those facilities that we depend on 102 00:03:56,175 --> 00:03:58,115 continue to have issues with 103 00:03:58,590 --> 00:03:59,090 staffing. 104 00:03:59,950 --> 00:04:01,969 And so what we're doing is, 105 00:04:02,670 --> 00:04:05,010 trying to beef up our work diligently 106 00:04:05,389 --> 00:04:06,450 on deploying 107 00:04:07,310 --> 00:04:07,810 technology 108 00:04:08,270 --> 00:04:09,330 with our providers, 109 00:04:10,110 --> 00:04:11,409 provider teams to 110 00:04:11,710 --> 00:04:13,650 help them treat and place 111 00:04:14,485 --> 00:04:16,404 and fill some of those gaps on the 112 00:04:16,404 --> 00:04:19,365 skilled nursing facility and assisted living facility side 113 00:04:19,365 --> 00:04:19,865 where 114 00:04:20,324 --> 00:04:23,064 they're having those challenges. So use technology 115 00:04:23,444 --> 00:04:23,944 to 116 00:04:24,404 --> 00:04:26,245 get the information that we need to better 117 00:04:26,245 --> 00:04:28,719 care for the patients where again in the 118 00:04:28,719 --> 00:04:31,219 past we've relied heavily on 119 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,479 the staff that work in those facilities themselves. 120 00:04:34,479 --> 00:04:35,139 So that's 121 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,159 one issue for the coming year and what 122 00:04:38,159 --> 00:04:39,459 we're trying to do to 123 00:04:40,574 --> 00:04:41,475 address that. 124 00:04:41,855 --> 00:04:44,495 2 other issues around that is, one is 125 00:04:44,495 --> 00:04:44,995 just 126 00:04:45,375 --> 00:04:45,875 participation 127 00:04:46,654 --> 00:04:49,055 in the ACO by our skilled nursing facility 128 00:04:49,055 --> 00:04:51,394 and assisted living clients. So 129 00:04:53,055 --> 00:04:53,795 this year 130 00:04:54,829 --> 00:04:57,569 we really didn't get our skilled nursing facilities 131 00:04:58,589 --> 00:05:00,850 involved in participating in the ACO. 132 00:05:01,870 --> 00:05:04,430 And for the coming year, we feel that 133 00:05:04,430 --> 00:05:06,529 that's very important to have 134 00:05:07,254 --> 00:05:08,235 they have the opportunity 135 00:05:08,615 --> 00:05:09,595 to the facilities 136 00:05:10,295 --> 00:05:12,375 on the skilled nursing facility side and assisted 137 00:05:12,375 --> 00:05:13,435 living to participate 138 00:05:14,214 --> 00:05:16,475 and potentially realize shared savings. 139 00:05:17,095 --> 00:05:19,500 We want them to participate and have 140 00:05:20,779 --> 00:05:22,860 so we can better alignment and get them 141 00:05:22,860 --> 00:05:24,779 on board so that we're on the same 142 00:05:24,779 --> 00:05:25,279 page 143 00:05:26,540 --> 00:05:28,079 in the coming year. So 144 00:05:28,860 --> 00:05:31,259 we'll be we have a really solid plan 145 00:05:31,259 --> 00:05:31,920 in place 146 00:05:32,875 --> 00:05:34,814 to, for the next year to 147 00:05:35,115 --> 00:05:37,115 get them on board and get them on 148 00:05:37,115 --> 00:05:38,735 board participating with 149 00:05:39,435 --> 00:05:41,675 the ACO. The other piece of that too 150 00:05:41,675 --> 00:05:44,014 is hospital engagement. So, 151 00:05:44,955 --> 00:05:46,735 our efforts to prevent hospitalizations, 152 00:05:48,599 --> 00:05:51,159 A key piece of that too is to 153 00:05:51,159 --> 00:05:53,339 do a better job of engaging 154 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,800 with each of the hospitals in the markets 155 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:56,699 that we serve 156 00:05:57,399 --> 00:05:59,740 so that we have better communication with emergency 157 00:05:59,959 --> 00:06:03,095 departments and try to keep patients from being, 158 00:06:03,955 --> 00:06:05,014 admitted inpatient 159 00:06:06,514 --> 00:06:08,915 and get them back to the skilled nursing 160 00:06:08,915 --> 00:06:11,175 facilities and assisted living communities. So 161 00:06:11,795 --> 00:06:14,870 we really believe with the team model rollout, 162 00:06:15,250 --> 00:06:17,889 we have about 70 hospitals in the markets 163 00:06:17,889 --> 00:06:19,110 that we serve that 164 00:06:19,490 --> 00:06:19,990 will, 165 00:06:20,689 --> 00:06:23,269 be mandated to participate in the team model 166 00:06:24,129 --> 00:06:24,949 in 2026 167 00:06:25,649 --> 00:06:28,574 and preparation for that will be happening in 168 00:06:28,574 --> 00:06:29,074 2025, 169 00:06:29,935 --> 00:06:31,235 and we're well positioned 170 00:06:31,935 --> 00:06:32,435 to, 171 00:06:33,294 --> 00:06:34,115 help them, 172 00:06:34,974 --> 00:06:38,834 manage those episodes. So with that engagement, we 173 00:06:39,055 --> 00:06:41,055 will then have an audience with them to 174 00:06:41,055 --> 00:06:42,035 be able to 175 00:06:42,910 --> 00:06:45,730 also have discussions around preventing hospitalizations 176 00:06:46,269 --> 00:06:48,290 for our ACO patients. 177 00:06:48,990 --> 00:06:49,490 And 178 00:06:49,870 --> 00:06:51,870 we hope to, you know, make progress in 179 00:06:51,870 --> 00:06:54,769 that area where it's been challenging this year. 180 00:06:55,310 --> 00:06:55,550 So 181 00:06:56,430 --> 00:06:57,410 and then lastly, 182 00:07:00,125 --> 00:07:01,724 we as a practice to really from a 183 00:07:01,724 --> 00:07:03,185 value based payment perspective 184 00:07:04,685 --> 00:07:08,285 to, again, our main objective is keeping in 185 00:07:08,285 --> 00:07:10,464 place and keeping patients out of the hospital. 186 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,680 We really need better data, better information at 187 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,399 the point of care to address patient needs. 188 00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:21,800 So this year we've spent a lot of 189 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:22,300 time 190 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,500 with initial assessments of different technology 191 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,040 platforms to use to be able to do 192 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:28,425 that. 193 00:07:29,384 --> 00:07:32,104 And a challenge to identify technology and systems 194 00:07:32,104 --> 00:07:33,884 to deploy that would effectively 195 00:07:34,584 --> 00:07:35,724 inform our providers, 196 00:07:36,345 --> 00:07:37,964 provide a teams of patient 197 00:07:38,824 --> 00:07:41,625 changes and condition to head off transfers to 198 00:07:41,625 --> 00:07:42,845 the hospital, but 199 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,060 AI and remote patient monitoring are improving dramatically. 200 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:49,439 So we're really hopeful in the coming year 201 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:51,840 that we'll make progress in in this area 202 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:52,420 as well. 203 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,240 Well, that's great to hear. You know? And, 204 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,319 certainly, a lot of moving parts there. I 205 00:07:58,480 --> 00:07:59,475 so I can appreciate, 206 00:08:00,035 --> 00:08:02,194 how challenging I I'm sure it can be 207 00:08:02,194 --> 00:08:04,194 to make sure everyone's aligning in the right 208 00:08:04,194 --> 00:08:07,394 space and then being able to understand how 209 00:08:07,394 --> 00:08:10,754 any challenges or changes can impact the financial 210 00:08:10,754 --> 00:08:12,694 side of how things are doing while also 211 00:08:12,959 --> 00:08:15,699 ensuring, you know, the best quality care possible. 212 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:18,819 As you think through what change or transformation 213 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,060 has to occur as you're bringing in additional, 214 00:08:22,079 --> 00:08:24,819 SNF and skilled nursing participation into the ACO, 215 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,040 what are you doing on your side to 216 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,314 prepare for that? Or, you know, how do 217 00:08:29,314 --> 00:08:32,454 you really engage in those conversations to meaningfully, 218 00:08:33,154 --> 00:08:34,955 move things in the direction that you'd like 219 00:08:34,955 --> 00:08:35,735 to see them? 220 00:08:37,475 --> 00:08:39,815 So we're for the coming year, we're 221 00:08:40,820 --> 00:08:41,720 we're partnering 222 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:45,860 really closely with our ACO. We're actually making 223 00:08:45,860 --> 00:08:46,919 a change from 224 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:49,879 the ACO that we've partnered with 225 00:08:50,339 --> 00:08:53,000 this year to a new ACO that we 226 00:08:53,059 --> 00:08:53,959 think will 227 00:08:54,659 --> 00:08:55,879 better align with 228 00:08:56,875 --> 00:09:00,175 our goals to, you know, that I just 229 00:09:00,394 --> 00:09:00,894 discussed. 230 00:09:01,434 --> 00:09:01,934 And, 231 00:09:02,955 --> 00:09:04,014 with that change, 232 00:09:04,634 --> 00:09:06,955 we feel that they have the resources and 233 00:09:06,955 --> 00:09:09,355 the commitments. We've got their commitment to work 234 00:09:09,355 --> 00:09:12,299 with us to essentially market to our own 235 00:09:12,299 --> 00:09:14,159 clients and really educate them 236 00:09:14,779 --> 00:09:15,279 on, 237 00:09:16,779 --> 00:09:19,179 participating in the ACO, what it means for 238 00:09:19,179 --> 00:09:20,240 them, get their 239 00:09:20,940 --> 00:09:24,000 financial people involved too in the conversation. 240 00:09:24,779 --> 00:09:26,080 And I think that 241 00:09:26,595 --> 00:09:27,654 combination of 242 00:09:28,355 --> 00:09:30,695 kind of teaming up to approach 243 00:09:31,154 --> 00:09:31,634 our, 244 00:09:32,195 --> 00:09:34,934 SNF and Assisted Living clients together 245 00:09:35,794 --> 00:09:36,695 will really, 246 00:09:37,875 --> 00:09:40,674 you know, impact their decisions and get them 247 00:09:40,674 --> 00:09:41,174 to, 248 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,759 see the benefits of participating and getting them 249 00:09:44,759 --> 00:09:45,420 on board. 250 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,519 That's great to hear. You know, and I 251 00:09:48,519 --> 00:09:50,519 really appreciate you digging a little bit deeper 252 00:09:50,519 --> 00:09:53,480 in there. Now knowing, you know, what, 253 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,720 great opportunities are ahead of you, what are 254 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,514 you most excited about or what makes you 255 00:09:57,514 --> 00:09:58,014 nervous? 256 00:09:59,195 --> 00:10:00,095 I'd say we're 257 00:10:01,595 --> 00:10:03,294 most excited about how 258 00:10:04,154 --> 00:10:06,894 AI and remote patient monitoring is driving 259 00:10:07,195 --> 00:10:07,695 innovation 260 00:10:09,610 --> 00:10:10,990 and especially around 261 00:10:12,009 --> 00:10:13,790 more accurate diagnostics 262 00:10:14,170 --> 00:10:15,389 and timely data 263 00:10:16,330 --> 00:10:19,309 and streamlining operations as well. So 264 00:10:20,090 --> 00:10:23,050 that on vital signs and other data will 265 00:10:23,050 --> 00:10:23,550 allow 266 00:10:23,975 --> 00:10:24,875 a more coordinated, 267 00:10:25,415 --> 00:10:26,235 efficient and 268 00:10:26,934 --> 00:10:27,675 cost effective 269 00:10:28,215 --> 00:10:29,915 care. So in 2025, 270 00:10:31,335 --> 00:10:32,955 as I stated previously, 271 00:10:34,054 --> 00:10:36,315 we all see that technology is developing 272 00:10:37,095 --> 00:10:39,035 quickly, improving quickly. 273 00:10:39,970 --> 00:10:41,830 That will be the case in 2025. 274 00:10:43,409 --> 00:10:46,529 And we need to determine appropriate use cases 275 00:10:46,529 --> 00:10:47,029 for 276 00:10:47,730 --> 00:10:48,470 these technologies 277 00:10:48,850 --> 00:10:49,990 and ensure that 278 00:10:50,370 --> 00:10:52,070 using them does not further 279 00:10:52,690 --> 00:10:53,750 distract providers 280 00:10:54,575 --> 00:10:57,214 during the patient visits, but improves things and 281 00:10:57,214 --> 00:10:58,674 fits with their workflow. 282 00:10:59,615 --> 00:11:02,835 So we're hopeful that technology will help providers 283 00:11:02,975 --> 00:11:06,335 with task shifting and better allow them to 284 00:11:06,335 --> 00:11:06,835 participate 285 00:11:07,959 --> 00:11:09,580 at the top of their license, 286 00:11:09,959 --> 00:11:10,459 and 287 00:11:10,919 --> 00:11:14,200 that'll help us too to retain providers and 288 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,080 recruit other providers because it's, you know, you 289 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,860 know, again, like everyone's experiencing 290 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:20,220 staffing issues, 291 00:11:21,004 --> 00:11:21,745 the same 292 00:11:22,125 --> 00:11:25,245 is challenging in the with provider space as 293 00:11:25,245 --> 00:11:25,745 well. 294 00:11:26,605 --> 00:11:27,105 So 295 00:11:27,804 --> 00:11:30,705 technology innovations have the potential to improve 296 00:11:31,725 --> 00:11:32,705 clinical workflow 297 00:11:33,245 --> 00:11:33,985 too within 298 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,500 EMR that we use, 299 00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:39,220 including the use of AI to automate 300 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:40,559 doc, 301 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,240 automate documentation, make it easier to search for 302 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,379 information. So 303 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:48,080 being able to make all that easier for 304 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,105 providers, we hope will obviously have a positive 305 00:11:52,105 --> 00:11:54,664 impact on care and cost and also help 306 00:11:54,664 --> 00:11:57,945 us, you know, with provider satisfaction, which is 307 00:11:57,945 --> 00:11:59,964 really important to our practice. 308 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,960 I'd say the item that we're kind of 309 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,240 nervous about is it's, you know, it's kind 310 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:10,059 of unclear 311 00:12:10,759 --> 00:12:12,919 what direction it's going in. I think in 312 00:12:12,919 --> 00:12:13,419 general, 313 00:12:15,315 --> 00:12:16,214 the value based 314 00:12:18,754 --> 00:12:21,174 payment challenges, first of all, 315 00:12:22,034 --> 00:12:23,334 CMS has created 316 00:12:24,595 --> 00:12:27,315 a large volume, a large number of value 317 00:12:27,315 --> 00:12:29,654 based care models, which is 318 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:31,879 challenging because you have a lot of 319 00:12:33,539 --> 00:12:36,840 overlap models that are starting and then ending. 320 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:39,779 And, yeah, there's a lot of time and 321 00:12:39,779 --> 00:12:41,240 effort that's put into 322 00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:43,080 developing 323 00:12:44,495 --> 00:12:47,315 systems to be able to operate within these 324 00:12:47,695 --> 00:12:49,394 models. So we continue to 325 00:12:49,774 --> 00:12:50,514 see that, 326 00:12:50,975 --> 00:12:52,514 and it's challenging. Secondly, 327 00:12:54,174 --> 00:12:54,995 there's a challenge 328 00:12:55,615 --> 00:12:56,115 around 329 00:12:56,575 --> 00:12:57,075 documentation 330 00:12:57,809 --> 00:13:01,250 requirements to demonstrate value. So there are several 331 00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:04,289 components to quality and providers need to report 332 00:13:04,289 --> 00:13:04,789 on 333 00:13:05,090 --> 00:13:06,389 the performance metrics 334 00:13:07,330 --> 00:13:08,230 and to show 335 00:13:09,250 --> 00:13:09,750 CMS 336 00:13:10,210 --> 00:13:12,070 that we are delivering high 337 00:13:13,004 --> 00:13:15,264 value care. And this creates a significant 338 00:13:15,644 --> 00:13:16,865 administrative burden 339 00:13:17,325 --> 00:13:18,945 adding cost to the system 340 00:13:19,725 --> 00:13:23,024 and essentially leading providers with fewer resources 341 00:13:23,804 --> 00:13:26,144 for patient care. And then lastly, 342 00:13:26,684 --> 00:13:28,465 related to all this is 343 00:13:29,129 --> 00:13:29,790 the continued 344 00:13:30,170 --> 00:13:32,350 dependency on fee for service. 345 00:13:32,889 --> 00:13:33,389 So, 346 00:13:33,930 --> 00:13:37,129 you know, we know that CMS's goal is 347 00:13:37,129 --> 00:13:37,950 to have 348 00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:39,230 every 349 00:13:39,690 --> 00:13:40,190 beneficiary 350 00:13:40,490 --> 00:13:41,950 under a value based 351 00:13:42,404 --> 00:13:43,464 payment model 352 00:13:43,845 --> 00:13:44,345 by 353 00:13:44,804 --> 00:13:45,304 2,030. 354 00:13:46,565 --> 00:13:47,065 But 355 00:13:49,365 --> 00:13:52,245 we'd like to see less dependency on fee 356 00:13:52,245 --> 00:13:54,324 for service, so we'd like to see kind 357 00:13:54,324 --> 00:13:56,164 of a well, first of all, pairing down 358 00:13:56,164 --> 00:13:56,664 of 359 00:13:57,879 --> 00:13:59,419 these models and really 360 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:02,019 consolidation 361 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,279 and then a change a little change in 362 00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:08,539 approach and give accountable organizations, 363 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:11,319 the ones that are taking on the risk 364 00:14:11,319 --> 00:14:11,819 or 365 00:14:13,754 --> 00:14:15,214 flexibility to decide 366 00:14:15,595 --> 00:14:16,735 how organizations 367 00:14:17,195 --> 00:14:17,695 in 368 00:14:18,154 --> 00:14:18,894 the networks 369 00:14:19,995 --> 00:14:23,134 that we've formed to manage these patients, 370 00:14:24,554 --> 00:14:27,360 how they're compensated so they're not continue to 371 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,580 be re relying on fee for service that 372 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,580 are tied in with 373 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,080 the, 374 00:14:34,879 --> 00:14:38,000 the value based payment model and more invested 375 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:38,740 in it. 376 00:14:39,595 --> 00:14:41,434 That's great to hear. And I can imagine, 377 00:14:41,434 --> 00:14:43,434 you know, as you mentioned, some of those 378 00:14:43,434 --> 00:14:47,434 benefits, but also challenges with, you know, just 379 00:14:47,434 --> 00:14:49,914 being part of the value based care models 380 00:14:49,914 --> 00:14:52,875 and seeing how, additional providers are brought into 381 00:14:52,875 --> 00:14:53,615 that space, 382 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:56,179 and really where things are headed over the 383 00:14:56,179 --> 00:14:59,299 next few years. It'll just be interesting to 384 00:14:59,299 --> 00:15:01,700 to watch all of that. Now in knowing 385 00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:02,100 how, 386 00:15:02,899 --> 00:15:04,899 how much complexities in the health care space, 387 00:15:04,899 --> 00:15:07,059 but also, you know, really the the way 388 00:15:07,059 --> 00:15:08,200 that things are evolving, 389 00:15:08,705 --> 00:15:10,164 What do you think most effective 390 00:15:10,465 --> 00:15:11,904 health care leaders will need in order to 391 00:15:11,904 --> 00:15:13,745 be successful over the next 2 to 3 392 00:15:13,745 --> 00:15:14,644 years or so? 393 00:15:15,985 --> 00:15:16,804 Oh, it's, 394 00:15:17,345 --> 00:15:18,404 you know, it's impossible 395 00:15:18,784 --> 00:15:19,225 to 396 00:15:19,664 --> 00:15:21,445 you know, on the value based payment 397 00:15:21,825 --> 00:15:22,565 to operate 398 00:15:23,879 --> 00:15:25,740 in a silo and be successful. 399 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,100 So 400 00:15:27,639 --> 00:15:29,740 healthcare organizations that are 401 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,059 most likely to succeed 402 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,740 under value based payment models 403 00:15:36,615 --> 00:15:37,434 have sophisticated 404 00:15:38,375 --> 00:15:40,475 strategy to build partnerships 405 00:15:41,654 --> 00:15:43,355 and networks and leverage 406 00:15:44,695 --> 00:15:46,315 but those networks and partnerships 407 00:15:46,695 --> 00:15:47,195 leverage 408 00:15:47,815 --> 00:15:50,394 shared technologies and systems 409 00:15:52,009 --> 00:15:54,509 and build trust to drive efficiencies 410 00:15:55,450 --> 00:15:58,750 and reduce costs across the network. So, 411 00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:02,669 yeah, choosing the right strategy, the right partners, 412 00:16:03,450 --> 00:16:06,750 and being able to, again, get everyone 413 00:16:07,735 --> 00:16:09,035 as much as possible 414 00:16:09,495 --> 00:16:10,955 on shared systems 415 00:16:12,375 --> 00:16:14,695 is key to all of this. So that's, 416 00:16:14,855 --> 00:16:16,394 you know, definitely a, 417 00:16:17,654 --> 00:16:20,695 you know, different skill set than, you know, 418 00:16:20,695 --> 00:16:21,195 what 419 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,179 health care leaders in the past have 420 00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,139 relied upon. So, 421 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,080 you know, so that's what we're dealing with 422 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,820 and trying to work through that. And it's, 423 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:34,980 you know, it's complicated, 424 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:37,059 but, 425 00:16:37,695 --> 00:16:38,595 you know, the more 426 00:16:39,375 --> 00:16:42,674 better strategy you have and being able 427 00:16:43,774 --> 00:16:47,075 to drive that strategy and implement it and 428 00:16:47,375 --> 00:16:48,835 stick to a plan and 429 00:16:49,870 --> 00:16:52,529 rely on that plan is is really 430 00:16:53,230 --> 00:16:55,250 important and more important than ever. 431 00:16:56,029 --> 00:16:58,029 A 100% agree. Thank you so much for 432 00:16:58,029 --> 00:16:59,790 joining us on the podcast today, Chris. I 433 00:16:59,790 --> 00:17:01,790 I really appreciate your time and perspective, and 434 00:17:01,790 --> 00:17:03,389 I look forward to connecting with you again 435 00:17:03,389 --> 00:17:03,889 soon. 436 00:17:04,765 --> 00:17:06,384 Thank you. Appreciate it.