1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:01,919 Hi, everyone, and thanks for tuning in to 2 00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:04,799 the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. My name is Lucas 3 00:00:04,799 --> 00:00:07,679 Voss, and I'm very excited to be joined 4 00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:11,039 by Trina Histon, PhD and VP at clinical 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,125 product strategy at Wolbot Health to discuss scaling 6 00:00:14,125 --> 00:00:18,125 mental health support with health systems. Trina, thanks 7 00:00:18,125 --> 00:00:19,664 so much for joining us today. 8 00:00:20,285 --> 00:00:22,125 Lucas, it's a pleasure to be here. Looking 9 00:00:22,125 --> 00:00:23,345 forward to today's conversation. 10 00:00:23,804 --> 00:00:26,364 Yes. And it's so so interesting to have 11 00:00:26,364 --> 00:00:28,730 you on. You've done so much work 12 00:00:29,030 --> 00:00:31,109 in the health care space. You've been around 13 00:00:31,109 --> 00:00:33,990 for such a long time. I briefly scanned 14 00:00:33,990 --> 00:00:35,989 over some of your papers that you've done 15 00:00:35,989 --> 00:00:38,549 on on overweight and obesity and a lot 16 00:00:38,549 --> 00:00:40,884 of that work, and it's there's it's so 17 00:00:40,884 --> 00:00:41,384 multifaceted, 18 00:00:41,844 --> 00:00:43,445 which I love. You have such a deep 19 00:00:43,445 --> 00:00:45,284 background in health care. Can you just give 20 00:00:45,284 --> 00:00:46,804 us a little bit of an introduction to 21 00:00:46,804 --> 00:00:48,744 yourself and and your work at Wolcott? 22 00:00:49,524 --> 00:00:50,905 Sure. Sure. Happy to. 23 00:00:51,284 --> 00:00:53,844 So I'm a health psychologist by background. And 24 00:00:53,844 --> 00:00:56,219 as as you referenced, I've over 2 decades 25 00:00:56,219 --> 00:00:56,960 of experience 26 00:00:57,339 --> 00:00:59,679 in health care. And a lot of that 27 00:00:59,820 --> 00:01:01,420 in health care was kind of building end 28 00:01:01,420 --> 00:01:02,799 to end clinical pathways 29 00:01:03,339 --> 00:01:06,079 for prevention and treatment. And I would say 30 00:01:06,219 --> 00:01:08,459 the last 7, 8 years of my time 31 00:01:08,459 --> 00:01:10,619 in health care before I joined robot health 32 00:01:10,619 --> 00:01:12,965 and startup world was building and scaling a 33 00:01:12,965 --> 00:01:14,265 digital mental health ecosystem 34 00:01:14,965 --> 00:01:17,524 that deployed in primary care and in specialty 35 00:01:17,524 --> 00:01:19,604 care. So in in doing that work, it's 36 00:01:19,604 --> 00:01:20,104 really 37 00:01:20,484 --> 00:01:23,444 translating the evidence base into care delivery and 38 00:01:23,444 --> 00:01:24,504 doing that with methodologies 39 00:01:24,965 --> 00:01:27,670 like human centered design and performance improvement. So 40 00:01:27,670 --> 00:01:30,150 you're really thinking deeply about not just the 41 00:01:30,150 --> 00:01:31,129 what you're deploying, 42 00:01:31,430 --> 00:01:33,269 but where you're deploying it and who you're 43 00:01:33,269 --> 00:01:34,950 deploying it with at both in the care 44 00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:37,189 team side and on the patient side. So, 45 00:01:37,590 --> 00:01:39,734 delighted to bring that skill set to what 46 00:01:39,734 --> 00:01:41,814 about health where I really lean into clinical 47 00:01:41,814 --> 00:01:44,295 enablement with our partners. So it's been it's 48 00:01:44,295 --> 00:01:45,894 been great so far. Start up world is 49 00:01:45,894 --> 00:01:47,494 different to health care, but I'm in my 50 00:01:47,494 --> 00:01:49,894 happy place for sure. That's fantastic. And it 51 00:01:49,894 --> 00:01:51,494 it like you mentioned, it's become such an 52 00:01:51,494 --> 00:01:53,020 important part of the industry, I feel, like, 53 00:01:53,020 --> 00:01:54,540 to be able to look to those new 54 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:57,280 solutions, to look to new developments, technology, 55 00:01:57,819 --> 00:02:00,140 digital solutions, etcetera. I think that that's really 56 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:01,760 the way of the future. And you've mentioned 57 00:02:02,140 --> 00:02:04,219 you've you've started to work with health systems 58 00:02:04,219 --> 00:02:05,439 on this quite extensively. 59 00:02:05,819 --> 00:02:07,500 One of the systems you work with is 60 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:08,480 Virtua Health. 61 00:02:09,074 --> 00:02:11,235 What were the initial goals when you first 62 00:02:11,235 --> 00:02:12,455 started that collaboration 63 00:02:13,155 --> 00:02:15,155 and and sort of the objectives as you 64 00:02:15,155 --> 00:02:17,555 were looking into how can we help patients? 65 00:02:17,555 --> 00:02:19,014 How can we improve care? 66 00:02:20,034 --> 00:02:22,354 Absolutely. Quick question. So I would say Virtua 67 00:02:22,354 --> 00:02:24,419 Health for those who aren't familiar as a 68 00:02:24,419 --> 00:02:26,580 health system in New Jersey. In fact, it's 69 00:02:26,580 --> 00:02:28,919 Southern New Jersey's largest healthcare provider. 70 00:02:29,379 --> 00:02:31,699 And when we started talking with the Virtua 71 00:02:31,699 --> 00:02:32,199 team, 72 00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:34,659 you know, we're thinking about primary care and 73 00:02:34,659 --> 00:02:36,500 the primary care setting and patients coming in 74 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:39,014 to see their doctor. And, you know, one 75 00:02:39,014 --> 00:02:41,435 of the initial sort of pain points not, 76 00:02:41,894 --> 00:02:43,974 unfamiliar to pro perhaps most of health care 77 00:02:43,974 --> 00:02:46,055 in the US was making a referral to 78 00:02:46,055 --> 00:02:48,715 behavioral health and then having a wait list. 79 00:02:49,254 --> 00:02:52,055 I think Virtua really wanted to explore might 80 00:02:52,055 --> 00:02:53,194 there be other ways 81 00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:56,360 that patients who might need support in living 82 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:57,099 better with 83 00:02:57,479 --> 00:02:59,259 symptoms of anxiety, depression, 84 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,500 might there be other tools? And, of course, 85 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,439 in the last several years, digital tools have 86 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:07,159 become more and more common in deployments in 87 00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:09,625 in primary care and specialty care. So the 88 00:03:09,625 --> 00:03:11,305 initial pain point we were looking to solve 89 00:03:11,305 --> 00:03:13,865 was those patients seen in primary care who 90 00:03:13,865 --> 00:03:15,465 may get a referral and then they're on 91 00:03:15,465 --> 00:03:17,224 a wait list. But I think we we 92 00:03:17,224 --> 00:03:20,185 quickly then explored more deeply with the team 93 00:03:20,185 --> 00:03:20,685 and, 94 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:23,479 you know, these tools are an adjunct to 95 00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:26,199 care. So again, robot health, in adults, that's 96 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:28,199 the tool we've deployed with with the virtual 97 00:03:28,199 --> 00:03:31,080 team can be that support that's 247 for 98 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:31,819 that patient. 99 00:03:32,199 --> 00:03:34,039 So I think, you know, that was really 100 00:03:34,039 --> 00:03:36,360 the initial discussion that we had with the 101 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,634 virtual team. But but as I'll explain later 102 00:03:38,634 --> 00:03:41,534 on, we've we've expanded. So it's been tremendously 103 00:03:41,594 --> 00:03:43,114 exciting, and they've been a great team to 104 00:03:43,114 --> 00:03:43,935 partner with. 105 00:03:44,314 --> 00:03:45,754 Lots of options. And I feel like, again, 106 00:03:45,754 --> 00:03:48,314 that's that's where really those those digital solutions 107 00:03:48,314 --> 00:03:49,995 can really fill some of those gaps, fill 108 00:03:49,995 --> 00:03:51,549 some of those care gaps, and be able 109 00:03:51,549 --> 00:03:53,469 to to truly make an impact on the 110 00:03:53,469 --> 00:03:54,989 patient at the end of the day. And 111 00:03:54,989 --> 00:03:56,909 I think that's what we want. That's what 112 00:03:56,909 --> 00:03:58,909 we Absolutely. We're looking for help in the 113 00:03:58,909 --> 00:04:00,689 moment. Mhmm. Yeah. To to supplement 114 00:04:01,069 --> 00:04:02,829 to supplement and being able to help. I 115 00:04:02,829 --> 00:04:04,289 think that that's really key. 116 00:04:04,829 --> 00:04:07,034 Again, a lot of this is new for 117 00:04:07,034 --> 00:04:08,555 a lot of folks. A lot of people 118 00:04:08,555 --> 00:04:09,775 are might be hesitant. 119 00:04:10,314 --> 00:04:12,314 There's all of these solutions, all of these 120 00:04:12,314 --> 00:04:14,634 different companies that are doing this. What are 121 00:04:14,634 --> 00:04:15,615 some of the challenges 122 00:04:16,235 --> 00:04:19,435 in integrating a digital solution, especially if you 123 00:04:19,435 --> 00:04:21,209 already have a built out infrastructure? 124 00:04:22,329 --> 00:04:24,810 Sure. Sure. Great great question. I think, you 125 00:04:24,810 --> 00:04:27,209 know, I feel that the work we've been 126 00:04:27,209 --> 00:04:29,769 doing in partnership with Virtua really does, you 127 00:04:29,769 --> 00:04:32,669 know, offer a blueprint for success. So 128 00:04:33,050 --> 00:04:34,970 when we're we're the first sort of digital 129 00:04:34,970 --> 00:04:36,829 mental health tool that Virtua is deploying. 130 00:04:37,235 --> 00:04:39,154 And so we think of scale at the 131 00:04:39,154 --> 00:04:40,915 beginning. So you're not just sort of adding 132 00:04:40,915 --> 00:04:42,995 on and iteratively doing piecemeal, but you're thinking 133 00:04:42,995 --> 00:04:44,754 of your end goal in mind. And so 134 00:04:44,754 --> 00:04:46,915 we tend to implement in phases or or 135 00:04:46,915 --> 00:04:48,995 kind of what we call internally crawl, walk, 136 00:04:48,995 --> 00:04:51,430 run. And so, you know, when you're crawling, 137 00:04:51,430 --> 00:04:54,069 you're learning, like, you're exploring something new. I 138 00:04:54,069 --> 00:04:55,829 would say, you know, I think about the 139 00:04:55,829 --> 00:04:58,629 ABCs of implementation. And so I I think 140 00:04:58,629 --> 00:05:00,569 I've talked about the a, which was access, 141 00:05:00,790 --> 00:05:02,389 which which is a pain point for many 142 00:05:02,389 --> 00:05:04,305 systems in the US. And and I think 143 00:05:04,305 --> 00:05:05,985 the b is not to be pity, but 144 00:05:05,985 --> 00:05:07,785 it's it's beginning and being bold. I think 145 00:05:07,785 --> 00:05:09,525 a lot of folks who might be hesitant, 146 00:05:09,824 --> 00:05:11,264 you just you just have to take that 147 00:05:11,264 --> 00:05:12,705 first step. And so what does that look 148 00:05:12,705 --> 00:05:16,145 like? Well, we actually started in telehealth in 149 00:05:16,145 --> 00:05:18,145 in primary care in VirTra. In fact, our 150 00:05:18,145 --> 00:05:21,209 clinical lead, doctor Skrinsky leads leads that that 151 00:05:21,209 --> 00:05:21,709 team. 152 00:05:22,169 --> 00:05:24,009 And in doing that, like, the the c 153 00:05:24,009 --> 00:05:26,970 of the ABC's is context. Deep understanding and 154 00:05:26,970 --> 00:05:27,949 respect for 155 00:05:28,329 --> 00:05:31,849 how patients move through their visits pre, post, 156 00:05:31,849 --> 00:05:32,589 and after. 157 00:05:33,164 --> 00:05:35,324 How doctors are spending their time with patients 158 00:05:35,324 --> 00:05:37,164 kind of where's their attention going, what are 159 00:05:37,164 --> 00:05:38,845 they holding space for, what are they listening 160 00:05:38,845 --> 00:05:40,704 for. You know, we know from the literature 161 00:05:40,764 --> 00:05:42,764 that on average primary care doctors might have 162 00:05:42,764 --> 00:05:44,604 about 17 minutes and there are 6 to 163 00:05:44,604 --> 00:05:47,564 7 topics that are usually covered in those 164 00:05:47,564 --> 00:05:49,990 17 minutes. So there's a lot happening and 165 00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:51,750 they're they're doing a lot and they're obviously 166 00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:53,990 documenting in the EMR as well and and 167 00:05:53,990 --> 00:05:56,470 Virtua use epic. So in the crawl phase, 168 00:05:56,470 --> 00:05:57,449 you're really understanding, 169 00:05:58,069 --> 00:05:59,669 you know, where might they be there'd be 170 00:05:59,669 --> 00:06:01,750 good points to get robot in in a 171 00:06:01,750 --> 00:06:04,834 patient's hands. What does the workflow look like? 172 00:06:04,834 --> 00:06:05,334 So 173 00:06:05,634 --> 00:06:08,115 making sure that you're not adding it undue 174 00:06:08,115 --> 00:06:10,134 burden to the care team because we know 175 00:06:10,435 --> 00:06:12,834 clinician burnout is very real and we know 176 00:06:12,834 --> 00:06:14,834 that teams are doing more and more and 177 00:06:14,834 --> 00:06:16,675 more, in in a visit. So we didn't 178 00:06:16,675 --> 00:06:18,959 wanna be one more thing that adds burden. 179 00:06:18,959 --> 00:06:21,860 So really listening for where are the opportunities 180 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,379 for us to deploy, 181 00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:26,500 and really have that minimal impact on workflow, 182 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,120 but really lean into where there's already good 183 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,120 muscle memory on on different places in the 184 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,464 EMR that a doctor is going to provide 185 00:06:33,464 --> 00:06:35,704 care. And so we really wanted to do 186 00:06:35,704 --> 00:06:37,384 that in crawl and we sort of launched 187 00:06:37,384 --> 00:06:38,044 in January 188 00:06:38,345 --> 00:06:41,064 in telehealth and then quickly added some, what 189 00:06:41,064 --> 00:06:43,064 I'll call more traditional primary care face to 190 00:06:43,064 --> 00:06:43,785 face care, 191 00:06:44,185 --> 00:06:47,004 sites in virtual health care footprint as well. 192 00:06:47,269 --> 00:06:48,949 We learned a lot, you know, in those 193 00:06:48,949 --> 00:06:51,509 first 15 to 20 patients in, how are 194 00:06:51,509 --> 00:06:54,230 the conversations going, what quest questions do patients 195 00:06:54,230 --> 00:06:54,970 have because, 196 00:06:55,350 --> 00:06:58,230 you know, part part of the getting ready 197 00:06:58,230 --> 00:07:00,649 is, you know, developing clinical training because 198 00:07:01,235 --> 00:07:03,154 a lot of doctors, you know, they've obviously 199 00:07:03,154 --> 00:07:03,894 deep expertise 200 00:07:04,194 --> 00:07:06,595 in in their degree, but things like mental 201 00:07:06,595 --> 00:07:09,074 health and digital mental health and and concepts 202 00:07:09,074 --> 00:07:11,314 from cognitive behavioral therapy may not be something 203 00:07:11,314 --> 00:07:13,314 they've had a lot of exposure to. So 204 00:07:13,314 --> 00:07:15,654 making sure that they really are comfortable 205 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:17,639 with robot health and that they can talk 206 00:07:17,639 --> 00:07:18,539 about it knowledgeably 207 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,399 in making the referral and that they get 208 00:07:21,399 --> 00:07:23,240 to ask and answer all their questions. You 209 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,360 know, doctors are very discerning and and rightly 210 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,639 so. And so we had a lot of 211 00:07:27,639 --> 00:07:29,639 great conversations to get ready and a number 212 00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:32,085 of clinical trainings to get ready. And so 213 00:07:32,085 --> 00:07:34,404 that would cover, you know, what robots is 214 00:07:34,404 --> 00:07:36,245 for adults and, you know, who might be 215 00:07:36,245 --> 00:07:37,925 a good fit for robots and maybe who 216 00:07:37,925 --> 00:07:39,685 isn't a good fit for robots and then 217 00:07:39,685 --> 00:07:40,824 how you make the referral. 218 00:07:41,205 --> 00:07:42,404 And and I would say one of the 219 00:07:42,404 --> 00:07:44,185 nice things Virtua has to, 220 00:07:44,569 --> 00:07:46,569 if I think of kind of workforce of 221 00:07:46,569 --> 00:07:48,750 the future and sort of care team configuration 222 00:07:48,889 --> 00:07:50,569 of the future, they have also got, 223 00:07:50,889 --> 00:07:52,990 technical consultants that support 224 00:07:53,449 --> 00:07:56,350 telehealth. And I think these are newer roles 225 00:07:56,735 --> 00:07:58,334 in in health care that we're seeing pop 226 00:07:58,334 --> 00:08:00,514 up like digital navigators or care coordinators, 227 00:08:00,975 --> 00:08:02,894 and they are really in a really nice 228 00:08:02,894 --> 00:08:04,975 connection then between the care team and the 229 00:08:04,975 --> 00:08:05,475 patient. 230 00:08:05,855 --> 00:08:07,774 So in the crawl phase, you know, figuring 231 00:08:07,774 --> 00:08:09,060 all those moving pieces 232 00:08:09,459 --> 00:08:11,220 out, looking at how the flow of the 233 00:08:11,220 --> 00:08:13,399 first, as I said, 10 to 20 patients 234 00:08:13,699 --> 00:08:15,699 is looking and might there be anything we 235 00:08:15,699 --> 00:08:18,100 need to optimize. And then we scaled quite 236 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:20,120 quickly across their primary care footprint 237 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:23,564 in the springtime and continue to to learn 238 00:08:23,564 --> 00:08:26,365 as we go. In fact, you know, Virtua 239 00:08:26,365 --> 00:08:28,604 made the decision to to bring in other 240 00:08:28,604 --> 00:08:30,925 specialties because, you know, the other thing that's 241 00:08:30,925 --> 00:08:33,164 happening in health care and I'm personally applauding 242 00:08:33,164 --> 00:08:35,245 it is the recognition that the the head 243 00:08:35,245 --> 00:08:37,404 is connected to the body. And so physical 244 00:08:37,404 --> 00:08:40,259 health and mental health are are intertwined. And 245 00:08:40,259 --> 00:08:42,039 and Yes. You know, if you're struggling 246 00:08:42,340 --> 00:08:44,179 with your mental health, it's gonna impact how 247 00:08:44,179 --> 00:08:46,179 well you might manage your diabetes or or 248 00:08:46,179 --> 00:08:48,740 anything else of chronic conditions. So we've actually 249 00:08:48,740 --> 00:08:51,240 launched another specialties like GI, like cardiopulmonary, 250 00:08:51,924 --> 00:08:53,764 and and those care settings and and are 251 00:08:53,764 --> 00:08:56,184 about to add some more because those specialties 252 00:08:56,245 --> 00:08:58,665 we're recognizing, look, we we wanna really support 253 00:08:59,045 --> 00:09:01,205 our patients and giving them tools to kind 254 00:09:01,205 --> 00:09:02,644 of help them at at at 4 in 255 00:09:02,644 --> 00:09:05,125 the morning. I mean, candidly, about 77% of 256 00:09:05,125 --> 00:09:07,750 patients who are using robots in our virtual 257 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:09,829 deployment are doing so outside of traditional office 258 00:09:09,829 --> 00:09:11,990 hours. So we can act as that digital 259 00:09:11,990 --> 00:09:12,970 layer of support 260 00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:15,750 that's available in the moment. And then, obviously, 261 00:09:15,750 --> 00:09:18,470 we're adjunctive to care. So, those patients know 262 00:09:18,470 --> 00:09:20,309 they can always go back to their, you 263 00:09:20,309 --> 00:09:21,884 know, referring provider as well. 264 00:09:22,445 --> 00:09:24,684 Yeah. And I think, again, that's what I 265 00:09:24,684 --> 00:09:27,245 love about digital about these digital solutions and 266 00:09:27,245 --> 00:09:29,884 specifically what you've mentioned with WoBot Health. Right? 267 00:09:29,884 --> 00:09:32,605 It's it's ax we're also solving an access 268 00:09:32,605 --> 00:09:36,065 issue. We're providing access to people that normally 269 00:09:36,125 --> 00:09:38,139 might not have it or that might not 270 00:09:38,139 --> 00:09:39,420 be able to get the help that they 271 00:09:39,420 --> 00:09:41,660 need, and these digital tools are able to 272 00:09:41,660 --> 00:09:43,740 do that in a way that's so much 273 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:47,340 more just inclusive for everyone. And I think 274 00:09:47,340 --> 00:09:49,100 that that's such a key such a key 275 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:51,019 piece to being able to have a strategy 276 00:09:51,019 --> 00:09:51,524 like this 277 00:09:52,004 --> 00:09:54,884 for for health systems, I think. Absolutely. And 278 00:09:54,884 --> 00:09:57,305 and Virtu the Virtu team exceed those opportunities 279 00:09:57,365 --> 00:10:00,404 early. Yes. And and they want to avail 280 00:10:00,404 --> 00:10:02,325 of them. So that's been, you know, such 281 00:10:02,325 --> 00:10:04,884 a joy to to partner and think through, 282 00:10:04,884 --> 00:10:06,985 okay, might we adjust any of the materials 283 00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:10,179 for different specialties or or do we sort 284 00:10:10,179 --> 00:10:12,179 of point to different parts of robot that 285 00:10:12,179 --> 00:10:14,980 might be supportive in different ways for for 286 00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:17,620 different kinds of patients. So they've they've just 287 00:10:17,620 --> 00:10:20,264 really been very innovation mindset, which is wonderful. 288 00:10:20,264 --> 00:10:22,504 I definitely really enjoy the partnership. And and, 289 00:10:22,504 --> 00:10:24,585 you know, you're building the company, you know, 290 00:10:24,585 --> 00:10:25,784 and now I'm on the other side, right, 291 00:10:25,784 --> 00:10:27,225 that I wasn't healthcare and I'm in a 292 00:10:27,225 --> 00:10:29,225 startup. But, you know, you move at the 293 00:10:29,225 --> 00:10:30,924 speed of trust and you're building 294 00:10:31,304 --> 00:10:33,750 relationships with folks every day. And so, you 295 00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:35,830 know, our data is growing every day, but 296 00:10:35,830 --> 00:10:37,850 you're learning from that. And then you're infusing 297 00:10:38,230 --> 00:10:40,149 the learnings from data in the context of 298 00:10:40,149 --> 00:10:42,389 say virtual health footprint. And then, you know, 299 00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:45,190 you're continually, you know, moving and optimizing and 300 00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:47,394 it's a dynamic process. But, you know, you 301 00:10:47,394 --> 00:10:48,914 always want to keep at the heart of 302 00:10:48,914 --> 00:10:51,095 it is, you know, you're being deployed 303 00:10:51,394 --> 00:10:53,894 in in a clinically mediated way and it's, 304 00:10:54,034 --> 00:10:56,274 you know but the relationship between a clinician 305 00:10:56,274 --> 00:10:58,274 and a patient. And so we never take 306 00:10:58,274 --> 00:11:00,274 that for granted and and really sort of 307 00:11:00,274 --> 00:11:02,274 hold that that trust as well because we 308 00:11:02,274 --> 00:11:04,429 are also supporting those patients. 309 00:11:05,129 --> 00:11:06,730 Yeah. And and I think it comes back 310 00:11:06,730 --> 00:11:08,889 to your your ABCs that you've mentioned earlier 311 00:11:08,889 --> 00:11:10,889 in the conversation. Right? And I think the 312 00:11:10,889 --> 00:11:13,049 the b here is really crucial. As you've 313 00:11:13,049 --> 00:11:14,589 mentioned, you have to be bold. 314 00:11:15,144 --> 00:11:17,404 You have to Uh-huh. You have to innovate. 315 00:11:17,625 --> 00:11:19,144 You have to start. And I I think 316 00:11:19,144 --> 00:11:21,625 that's such a key piece. And and looking 317 00:11:21,625 --> 00:11:22,125 ahead 318 00:11:22,745 --> 00:11:24,504 right now for you as you as you've 319 00:11:24,504 --> 00:11:26,024 been in the industry for such a long 320 00:11:26,024 --> 00:11:28,044 time, you've been on different sides of things. 321 00:11:28,740 --> 00:11:30,419 Where do you see this going? Where do 322 00:11:30,419 --> 00:11:32,820 you see the partnership with Virtua going? But 323 00:11:32,820 --> 00:11:35,139 in general, also, how do you see this 324 00:11:35,139 --> 00:11:38,039 overall evolving for other health systems as well? 325 00:11:38,899 --> 00:11:40,419 Yeah. Yeah. Great question. I think there are 326 00:11:40,419 --> 00:11:42,434 a couple things with Virtua. Obviously, we're we're 327 00:11:42,434 --> 00:11:45,634 expanding into other specialties. So I think we're 328 00:11:45,634 --> 00:11:47,715 gonna learn a lot as those mature and 329 00:11:47,715 --> 00:11:50,035 evolve in terms of different types of patient 330 00:11:50,035 --> 00:11:52,754 populations and and what's resonating with them as 331 00:11:52,754 --> 00:11:54,615 as we are providing that support. 332 00:11:54,950 --> 00:11:56,789 We're also doing a case study with Virtua. 333 00:11:56,789 --> 00:11:59,350 So, you know, again, they're, you know, very 334 00:11:59,350 --> 00:12:01,589 innovative, but they also want, you know, as 335 00:12:01,589 --> 00:12:03,589 do we want to understand how are we 336 00:12:03,589 --> 00:12:04,089 impacting 337 00:12:04,549 --> 00:12:07,190 patient care, down the line. So really looking 338 00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:09,269 at the context of the deployment in different 339 00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:11,105 settings. So I would say keep your eyes 340 00:12:11,105 --> 00:12:12,804 peeled for for that case study. 341 00:12:13,105 --> 00:12:14,865 And if I zoom out to the whole 342 00:12:14,865 --> 00:12:16,945 field, I mean, there are many big moving 343 00:12:16,945 --> 00:12:19,605 pieces now happening in the US. So recently, 344 00:12:19,825 --> 00:12:22,004 you know, with parity, you know, seeing how, 345 00:12:22,304 --> 00:12:24,544 that's going to land with parity between mental 346 00:12:24,544 --> 00:12:25,764 health and physical health. 347 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,159 Also, CMS will be releasing their physician fee 348 00:12:29,159 --> 00:12:30,459 schedule final ruling 349 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,799 in early November. And that is, you know, 350 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:35,879 with the goal to supporting the deployment of 351 00:12:35,879 --> 00:12:37,959 digital mental health. I'm personally very excited about 352 00:12:37,959 --> 00:12:39,879 that because it kind of creates a a 353 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:41,419 strong reimbursement pathway. 354 00:12:42,014 --> 00:12:44,175 So I'm excited that those big pieces are 355 00:12:44,175 --> 00:12:47,055 moving. The other things I'm seeing also are 356 00:12:47,055 --> 00:12:49,215 looking at more whole person care. And I 357 00:12:49,215 --> 00:12:50,654 think Virtu have been one of the early 358 00:12:50,654 --> 00:12:53,134 movers in this in terms of addressing social 359 00:12:53,134 --> 00:12:55,360 determinants of health. And so both assessing it 360 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,879 but also addressing it. So I think in 361 00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:59,039 healthcare and I can say this after 2 362 00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:00,959 2.5 decades and, you know, a lot of 363 00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:02,799 times you're assessing a lot of things, but 364 00:13:02,799 --> 00:13:04,399 maybe you're not able to act on them 365 00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:06,240 because there may not be something in place 366 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,399 to do something candidly. And, you know, I 367 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:10,345 think mental health might have been one of 368 00:13:10,345 --> 00:13:11,945 those areas where that was challenging. But I 369 00:13:11,945 --> 00:13:14,424 think again with digital mental health growing and 370 00:13:14,424 --> 00:13:16,985 growing year on year, that's now becoming less 371 00:13:16,985 --> 00:13:18,745 of an issue. But newer things like social 372 00:13:18,745 --> 00:13:20,504 terms of health and what you need to 373 00:13:20,504 --> 00:13:22,889 have in place to support whole person care, 374 00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:23,870 I think there's tremendously 375 00:13:24,170 --> 00:13:25,149 exciting efforts, 376 00:13:25,529 --> 00:13:28,170 you know, underway and understanding, you know, the 377 00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:30,570 assessment and also the deployment of solutions to 378 00:13:30,570 --> 00:13:33,129 really support that human being. And we're part 379 00:13:33,129 --> 00:13:35,735 of that story and that architecture. So we're 380 00:13:35,735 --> 00:13:38,134 excited to to partner with our healthcare partners 381 00:13:38,134 --> 00:13:39,975 and and lean in and see how might 382 00:13:39,975 --> 00:13:42,294 we be part of that touch point for 383 00:13:42,294 --> 00:13:44,634 that patient over, say, a 24 hour period. 384 00:13:44,855 --> 00:13:46,615 What else can we do? So I'm excited 385 00:13:46,615 --> 00:13:48,490 by all of that because the promise of 386 00:13:48,490 --> 00:13:50,329 digital mental health, I think we're in the 387 00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:52,089 the second era, if I can frame it 388 00:13:52,089 --> 00:13:54,329 that way Mhmm. In the field. And, you 389 00:13:54,329 --> 00:13:55,949 know, I'm excited for the future. 390 00:13:56,490 --> 00:13:58,970 Absolutely. That sounds so fascinating. And we'll have 391 00:13:59,129 --> 00:14:01,449 obviously, Trina, we'll have to do a second 392 00:14:01,449 --> 00:14:04,035 podcast once the study comes out. Right? Absolutely. 393 00:14:04,035 --> 00:14:06,035 Happy to come back and talk. Once it 394 00:14:06,035 --> 00:14:07,475 comes out, we'll have to talk about the 395 00:14:07,475 --> 00:14:09,154 findings. We'll have to talk about all the 396 00:14:09,154 --> 00:14:11,315 interesting things that come out of that. Again, 397 00:14:11,315 --> 00:14:13,794 thank you so much for sharing your time 398 00:14:13,794 --> 00:14:16,195 today with our audience and your insights, certainly. 399 00:14:16,195 --> 00:14:18,294 What a great conversation. Thanks for being here. 400 00:14:18,410 --> 00:14:20,570 Thanks a million, Lucas. Take care. Thank you. 401 00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:22,649 And I'd also like to thank WolBot Health 402 00:14:22,649 --> 00:14:25,290 for sponsoring today's content. And to our listeners, 403 00:14:25,290 --> 00:14:27,290 thanks for joining us today, and make sure 404 00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:28,990 to check out other Becker's podcasts. 405 00:14:29,450 --> 00:14:31,690 Have a wonderful rest of your day, and 406 00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:33,529 make sure to tune in for the next 407 00:14:33,529 --> 00:14:34,029 one.