1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,720 Imagine this. You're at the Swiss Hotel in 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,399 Chicago surrounded by top executives from leading insurance 3 00:00:06,399 --> 00:00:08,099 companies and health systems. 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,300 Welcome to Becker's fall payer issues roundtable, 5 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:13,859 November 4th through 6, 2024. 6 00:00:14,625 --> 00:00:17,345 Picture the excitement as you gather business cards 7 00:00:17,345 --> 00:00:20,005 from over 500 executive level attendees, 8 00:00:20,464 --> 00:00:22,164 building invaluable connections. 9 00:00:22,704 --> 00:00:25,345 Feel the energy as you participate in over 10 00:00:25,345 --> 00:00:29,285 26 educational sessions led by 90 elite speakers. 11 00:00:29,769 --> 00:00:32,969 Envision yourself engaging in lively discussions about new 12 00:00:32,969 --> 00:00:36,409 health plans, hospital at home models, behavioral health, 13 00:00:36,409 --> 00:00:37,549 and price transparency. 14 00:00:38,170 --> 00:00:41,690 Now imagine being inspired by keynotes from boxing 15 00:00:41,690 --> 00:00:45,045 legend, Sugar Ray Leonard, and 4 time NBA 16 00:00:45,184 --> 00:00:47,744 All Star, Chris Webber. Their stories will leave 17 00:00:47,744 --> 00:00:50,004 you motivated and ready to innovate. 18 00:00:50,384 --> 00:00:53,024 Don't miss out on this unique opportunity. Get 19 00:00:53,024 --> 00:00:55,204 registered today. Visit beckershospital 20 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,420 hospital review.com 21 00:00:57,199 --> 00:00:59,039 and click on the events page to find 22 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:02,820 the conference website. That's the beckers hospital review.com 23 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,700 events page. See you in Chicago. 24 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:08,000 This is Laura Dierdo with the Becker's Healthcare 25 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:08,500 podcast. 26 00:01:08,825 --> 00:01:10,424 I'm thrilled today to be joined by doctor 27 00:01:10,424 --> 00:01:13,225 Robert Groves, executive vice president and chief medical 28 00:01:13,225 --> 00:01:15,385 officer at Banner Aetna. Doctor Groves, it's a 29 00:01:15,385 --> 00:01:17,165 pleasure to have you on the podcast today. 30 00:01:17,625 --> 00:01:19,385 Laura, thank you so much. I'm glad to 31 00:01:19,385 --> 00:01:20,125 be here again. 32 00:01:20,424 --> 00:01:21,900 Now I'm looking forward to our 33 00:01:22,380 --> 00:01:24,540 we learn so much from, from you when 34 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:26,380 we have a chance to connect. And, really, 35 00:01:26,380 --> 00:01:27,900 the cool things that you're doing at Banner 36 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:30,380 Aetna, it just sounds like a really amazing 37 00:01:30,380 --> 00:01:33,260 partnership and way to dig deeper into providing 38 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:36,204 great value for patients and the community. But 39 00:01:36,204 --> 00:01:38,204 before we dive into my questions, can you 40 00:01:38,204 --> 00:01:39,644 tell me a little bit more about yourself 41 00:01:39,644 --> 00:01:40,385 and your background? 42 00:01:41,564 --> 00:01:44,525 Sure. Yeah. Robert Groves. I'm a pulmonary critical 43 00:01:44,525 --> 00:01:46,625 care physician by training, spent 44 00:01:47,380 --> 00:01:49,079 a couple of decades in 45 00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:52,260 the traditional practice of pulmonary and critical care 46 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:52,760 medicine, 47 00:01:53,459 --> 00:01:56,420 then joined Banner Health on the delivery side 48 00:01:56,420 --> 00:01:59,079 and had various roles in that organization 49 00:01:59,459 --> 00:02:02,025 for about a dozen years that culminated in 50 00:02:02,185 --> 00:02:03,805 vice president of health management. 51 00:02:04,185 --> 00:02:06,505 Got some great experiences there. And then almost 52 00:02:06,505 --> 00:02:08,764 7 years ago now, I joined 53 00:02:09,145 --> 00:02:11,705 a joint venture banner Aetna, which is just 54 00:02:11,705 --> 00:02:14,425 like it sounds. It's a joint venture between 55 00:02:14,425 --> 00:02:16,504 banner of health, the delivery system, and Aetna, 56 00:02:16,504 --> 00:02:17,724 the insurance company. 57 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,639 We're trying to align incentives and change the 58 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,800 way that health care is delivered, at least 59 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,520 in Arizona, and, you know, tossing new stuff 60 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,759 and make it easier for people to access 61 00:02:27,759 --> 00:02:29,460 care and to navigate the system. 62 00:02:30,805 --> 00:02:32,485 Well, that's great to hear, you know, and 63 00:02:32,485 --> 00:02:35,125 what a amazing career journey you've had as 64 00:02:35,125 --> 00:02:36,805 as a clinician and now working with Banner 65 00:02:36,805 --> 00:02:39,764 Aetna to really have a huge impact on 66 00:02:39,764 --> 00:02:42,644 the broader community. Now from your perspective, what 67 00:02:42,644 --> 00:02:44,084 are some of the biggest issues that you're 68 00:02:44,084 --> 00:02:45,704 following in health care this year? 69 00:02:46,819 --> 00:02:48,039 Well, you know, 70 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:51,319 the perennial issue that everyone is following 71 00:02:51,699 --> 00:02:54,180 is cost. And, you know, patients feel it 72 00:02:54,180 --> 00:02:56,419 when they look at their deductible or their 73 00:02:56,419 --> 00:02:58,840 maximum out of pocket or their co pays. 74 00:02:59,514 --> 00:03:02,895 Insurance companies are feeling the heat as well. 75 00:03:02,955 --> 00:03:04,094 And delivery systems 76 00:03:04,395 --> 00:03:05,215 are challenged 77 00:03:05,594 --> 00:03:07,995 in our current environment. You know, recent changes 78 00:03:07,995 --> 00:03:11,115 to the Medicare rules, for example, have some 79 00:03:11,115 --> 00:03:12,735 folks reeling who have 80 00:03:13,219 --> 00:03:15,860 depended on, different rules in the past. So 81 00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:17,379 I think there's a lot of pressure on 82 00:03:17,379 --> 00:03:19,000 costs that worries me. 83 00:03:19,539 --> 00:03:21,539 And I think there are a lot of 84 00:03:21,539 --> 00:03:23,620 things that we need to do, but it's 85 00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:26,500 gonna take a sea change, I'm afraid, before 86 00:03:26,500 --> 00:03:28,519 we get past that. So in the meantime, 87 00:03:29,594 --> 00:03:33,134 it still is valuable to attack those incremental 88 00:03:33,514 --> 00:03:35,914 challenges that we see each and every day 89 00:03:35,914 --> 00:03:37,675 to try and make this a little bit 90 00:03:37,675 --> 00:03:38,495 more tolerable, 91 00:03:39,194 --> 00:03:39,935 for patients, 92 00:03:40,314 --> 00:03:43,739 for our members at Banner Aetna. Good to 93 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,039 hear. You know, and certainly looking at those 94 00:03:47,039 --> 00:03:49,759 challenges on the cost side as well as 95 00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:52,080 trying to figure out how to, continue to 96 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,840 provide great care, I think is top of 97 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,539 mind for so many different organizations. 98 00:03:56,685 --> 00:03:58,925 When you look at that health care delivery 99 00:03:58,925 --> 00:03:59,664 side of 100 00:04:00,685 --> 00:04:02,685 what do you really see as being exciting 101 00:04:02,685 --> 00:04:04,544 about the future, and what makes you nervous? 102 00:04:05,805 --> 00:04:06,625 Well, I 103 00:04:06,925 --> 00:04:08,764 I I think one of the things that's 104 00:04:08,764 --> 00:04:11,084 exciting about the future, first of all, is 105 00:04:11,084 --> 00:04:13,520 that we're coming out of 106 00:04:14,219 --> 00:04:15,759 the pandemic era 107 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:18,860 and starting to establish a new baseline. You 108 00:04:18,860 --> 00:04:20,240 know, it's really hard 109 00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:22,720 to predict what might happen, 110 00:04:23,259 --> 00:04:26,319 during the pandemic and immediately after the pandemic. 111 00:04:26,379 --> 00:04:29,194 And everybody is, I think, given the opportunity 112 00:04:29,254 --> 00:04:30,154 now, 2024 113 00:04:30,535 --> 00:04:32,694 has been a reset year. We've seen some 114 00:04:32,694 --> 00:04:35,354 uptick in demand for health care services. 115 00:04:35,814 --> 00:04:38,214 This is not shocking, given what happened during 116 00:04:38,214 --> 00:04:38,875 the pandemic, 117 00:04:39,254 --> 00:04:40,935 but I think we're going to be able 118 00:04:40,935 --> 00:04:43,419 to at least establish a new baseline and 119 00:04:43,419 --> 00:04:45,680 move forward. And that's exciting because 120 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:48,459 then we can predict what's gonna happen much 121 00:04:48,459 --> 00:04:50,379 better than we could for the last several 122 00:04:50,379 --> 00:04:50,879 years. 123 00:04:51,419 --> 00:04:53,100 Now having said that, I think one of 124 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:55,419 the other things that is really exciting for 125 00:04:55,419 --> 00:04:57,464 me specifically at Banner Aetna 126 00:04:57,764 --> 00:04:58,904 is we are 127 00:04:59,444 --> 00:05:01,785 changing the way that we think about 128 00:05:02,165 --> 00:05:05,045 care management. And we're really getting back to 129 00:05:05,045 --> 00:05:08,345 those in person type meetings and creating community 130 00:05:08,404 --> 00:05:11,545 with something we call the Banner Aetna Eco. 131 00:05:11,980 --> 00:05:13,580 And to give you an example of what 132 00:05:13,580 --> 00:05:16,460 these programs are like, I'll pull out one 133 00:05:16,460 --> 00:05:18,939 example, the banner Aetna Kitchen. And the way 134 00:05:18,939 --> 00:05:20,699 this works is we take our high risk 135 00:05:20,699 --> 00:05:23,279 diabetics and we offer them an opportunity 136 00:05:23,819 --> 00:05:25,279 to once a week 137 00:05:25,704 --> 00:05:28,985 come into a cooking show like experience. And 138 00:05:28,985 --> 00:05:30,745 so what that means is they come in, 139 00:05:30,745 --> 00:05:32,504 they have their own cook station, they have 140 00:05:32,504 --> 00:05:33,324 their own ingredients, 141 00:05:33,704 --> 00:05:35,884 and they pair off. And with a chef, 142 00:05:36,425 --> 00:05:38,204 and a nutritionist in attendance, 143 00:05:38,569 --> 00:05:41,050 They were able to actually engage in what 144 00:05:41,050 --> 00:05:43,529 it looks like, what it feels like, and 145 00:05:43,529 --> 00:05:45,370 what it tastes like to cook a healthy 146 00:05:45,370 --> 00:05:49,149 meal. It has been very, very successful and 147 00:05:49,449 --> 00:05:50,589 wildly popular, 148 00:05:51,209 --> 00:05:52,189 with our members. 149 00:05:52,574 --> 00:05:54,654 Now the pushback that we've gotten on that, 150 00:05:54,654 --> 00:05:56,194 Laura, as well, it's not scalable. 151 00:05:56,574 --> 00:05:58,354 And I wanna remind people that, 152 00:05:58,894 --> 00:06:01,774 there are several factors that make this scalable 153 00:06:01,774 --> 00:06:04,194 in an old fashioned way. I mean that 154 00:06:04,334 --> 00:06:07,189 by person to person. For example, this is 155 00:06:07,189 --> 00:06:07,689 experiential 156 00:06:08,230 --> 00:06:11,270 learning. That's very different from didactic learning. In 157 00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:14,569 experiential learning, you're gonna retain up to 90% 158 00:06:14,790 --> 00:06:16,790 of what you learn because you're actually doing 159 00:06:16,790 --> 00:06:19,189 it. They'll take those same ingredients home, make 160 00:06:19,189 --> 00:06:21,444 a meal for their families. The second thing 161 00:06:21,444 --> 00:06:23,444 that makes it really important is that creation 162 00:06:23,444 --> 00:06:26,324 of community. We bring people together so they 163 00:06:26,324 --> 00:06:28,504 actually meet. They're able to share experiences, 164 00:06:28,884 --> 00:06:31,144 share tips, provide mutual support. 165 00:06:31,524 --> 00:06:34,245 Really important to create community. And in addition 166 00:06:34,245 --> 00:06:36,150 to that, we're partnering with the city of 167 00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:39,850 Phoenix. We're partnering with, community colleges and establishing 168 00:06:39,910 --> 00:06:41,910 those relationships as well. And then the final 169 00:06:41,910 --> 00:06:43,210 thing that makes it scalable 170 00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:46,090 is there is nothing more powerful than word-of-mouth. 171 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:48,435 We've had 2 clients come up to us 172 00:06:48,435 --> 00:06:50,855 already and say, can you do a customized 173 00:06:50,995 --> 00:06:53,634 program that we'll pay for just for our 174 00:06:53,634 --> 00:06:54,134 members? 175 00:06:54,514 --> 00:06:57,634 So, I'm excited about that. We added, something 176 00:06:57,634 --> 00:06:59,475 we call banner at the active to get 177 00:06:59,475 --> 00:07:01,479 people out and moving again. And there are 178 00:07:01,479 --> 00:07:03,800 several other programs that we're bringing into what 179 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,860 we call the Vaneretna eco. And I'm incredibly 180 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,740 excited about recreating community post pandemic. 181 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:13,079 Well, that's amazing to hear. And that community 182 00:07:13,079 --> 00:07:15,800 element certainly is so important. I appreciate you 183 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,495 talking about the investment of being able to 184 00:07:18,495 --> 00:07:20,274 have a scalable and sustainable, 185 00:07:21,134 --> 00:07:23,855 program, you know, like this that really brings 186 00:07:23,855 --> 00:07:26,095 people together. It might not be a a 187 00:07:26,095 --> 00:07:26,595 traditional, 188 00:07:27,295 --> 00:07:30,310 program, but really is something that makes, a 189 00:07:30,310 --> 00:07:32,629 big difference for the community and and people 190 00:07:32,629 --> 00:07:34,470 who are a part of it. From your 191 00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:36,470 perspective, you know, when you look at kind 192 00:07:36,470 --> 00:07:37,290 of the downstream 193 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:39,290 results 194 00:07:40,389 --> 00:07:42,784 of people being able to just learn how 195 00:07:42,784 --> 00:07:43,024 to, 196 00:07:43,824 --> 00:07:43,904 be 197 00:07:44,944 --> 00:07:47,204 eat healthier and cook even for their families. 198 00:07:47,745 --> 00:07:49,425 What how do you think about that and 199 00:07:49,425 --> 00:07:51,504 measure that and then package that to those, 200 00:07:51,504 --> 00:07:53,745 you know, folks who are wondering, what is 201 00:07:53,745 --> 00:07:55,504 this investment? Is it really worth it in 202 00:07:55,504 --> 00:07:57,204 continuing on with this type of program? 203 00:07:58,339 --> 00:08:01,300 Yeah. Well, you know, to go back to 204 00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:04,019 experiential learning, I I I want people to 205 00:08:04,019 --> 00:08:06,419 think about it this way. When we're giving 206 00:08:06,419 --> 00:08:06,919 nutrition 207 00:08:07,220 --> 00:08:08,839 lectures or we're providing, 208 00:08:09,540 --> 00:08:11,860 information to patients that, you know, they can 209 00:08:11,860 --> 00:08:12,680 self learn, 210 00:08:13,165 --> 00:08:14,545 and we're doing it digitally. 211 00:08:15,004 --> 00:08:18,285 The retention on that is not really high. 212 00:08:18,285 --> 00:08:19,884 I mean, we've all been there. You sit 213 00:08:19,884 --> 00:08:20,705 through a lecture, 214 00:08:21,085 --> 00:08:22,845 you go home a couple of days later, 215 00:08:22,845 --> 00:08:24,285 you you try to remember, what did I 216 00:08:24,285 --> 00:08:27,425 learn? But if somebody actually goes through 217 00:08:27,965 --> 00:08:28,715 the body 218 00:08:29,220 --> 00:08:31,639 engagement in cooking a meal, 219 00:08:32,019 --> 00:08:35,559 we're not just creating students. We're creating teachers. 220 00:08:35,940 --> 00:08:37,860 They go home. They tell their family about 221 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:40,179 it. They tell their friends. We are actually 222 00:08:40,179 --> 00:08:42,339 creating teachers that go back out into the 223 00:08:42,339 --> 00:08:44,535 community and say, this is not as hard 224 00:08:44,535 --> 00:08:46,535 as I thought. And what's amazed me is 225 00:08:46,535 --> 00:08:47,514 how many people 226 00:08:48,134 --> 00:08:49,115 in that group 227 00:08:49,495 --> 00:08:53,595 of, of, high risk metabolic syndromes and diseases, 228 00:08:54,535 --> 00:08:56,615 didn't know how to do this stuff. They 229 00:08:56,615 --> 00:08:57,115 literally 230 00:08:57,575 --> 00:08:58,955 had not been exposed 231 00:08:59,389 --> 00:09:01,490 to these ideas and these concepts 232 00:09:01,950 --> 00:09:03,570 in a way that they could retain 233 00:09:03,950 --> 00:09:05,809 previously. So we're really 234 00:09:06,269 --> 00:09:08,350 excited about that. But something is true of 235 00:09:08,350 --> 00:09:10,590 bringing people together to do activities. So, you 236 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:13,125 know, the banner active, they'll go out, visit 237 00:09:13,125 --> 00:09:13,625 museums, 238 00:09:14,004 --> 00:09:15,465 visit parks, visit, 239 00:09:16,085 --> 00:09:19,205 visit fitness gyms, and learn what it's like 240 00:09:19,205 --> 00:09:21,205 to get back out in the community to 241 00:09:21,205 --> 00:09:24,165 meet people and to do physical activities that 242 00:09:24,165 --> 00:09:24,659 are 243 00:09:25,059 --> 00:09:28,179 tailored to their level of initial fitness. Obviously, 244 00:09:28,179 --> 00:09:31,319 we have their docs approved this, and, we're 245 00:09:31,379 --> 00:09:33,539 excited about that aspect of it too. And 246 00:09:33,539 --> 00:09:35,779 then we have another program called know your 247 00:09:35,779 --> 00:09:38,440 numbers that just encourages them to come in. 248 00:09:38,605 --> 00:09:40,625 You know, if you haven't had that hemoglobin 249 00:09:40,764 --> 00:09:42,785 a one c drawn or you haven't had 250 00:09:42,845 --> 00:09:44,524 that blood pressure checked in a while, let 251 00:09:44,524 --> 00:09:46,625 us help you do that in a setting 252 00:09:46,764 --> 00:09:49,825 that's fun, that is catered, and it has, 253 00:09:49,965 --> 00:09:52,285 you know, peers that you can share stories 254 00:09:52,285 --> 00:09:55,009 with. You'll you'll be surrounded by those kinds 255 00:09:55,009 --> 00:09:55,670 of people. 256 00:09:56,210 --> 00:09:57,570 We've had folks that, 257 00:09:58,050 --> 00:10:00,149 really love this so much that they volunteer 258 00:10:00,290 --> 00:10:00,950 to continue, 259 00:10:01,649 --> 00:10:04,450 in the program afterwards to help guide other 260 00:10:04,450 --> 00:10:06,529 members. So I think it has legs. And 261 00:10:06,529 --> 00:10:08,389 by the way, if you wanna give it, 262 00:10:09,705 --> 00:10:10,445 an electronic, 263 00:10:10,985 --> 00:10:13,945 spin on the back end, we're, toying with 264 00:10:13,945 --> 00:10:15,004 the idea of creating, 265 00:10:15,464 --> 00:10:17,865 an app or a web page where people 266 00:10:17,865 --> 00:10:20,284 can go and share recipes and share, 267 00:10:20,825 --> 00:10:22,440 you know, stories and 268 00:10:22,759 --> 00:10:23,559 access their, 269 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:24,460 providers, 270 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,340 etcetera. So there are ways to make this 271 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:29,960 scalable, if you will, in the in the, 272 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:33,159 what has now become the electronic sense. But 273 00:10:33,159 --> 00:10:36,200 I think it's really important to bring people 274 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,100 back together 275 00:10:37,784 --> 00:10:40,105 in person and start to create that sense 276 00:10:40,105 --> 00:10:40,845 of community. 277 00:10:42,264 --> 00:10:44,424 And that really makes a lot so much, 278 00:10:44,424 --> 00:10:45,945 doctor. Oh, and by the way, Laura, we 279 00:10:45,945 --> 00:10:49,625 are tracking outcomes in this program. So, we 280 00:10:49,625 --> 00:10:52,044 know from self reporting from the initial 281 00:10:52,529 --> 00:10:54,610 pilot phase of the study, which has been 282 00:10:54,610 --> 00:10:56,370 about a year and a half, 2 years 283 00:10:56,370 --> 00:10:56,870 now, 284 00:10:57,329 --> 00:10:58,389 on the kitchen, 285 00:10:58,929 --> 00:11:00,470 that hemoglobin A1Cs 286 00:11:00,850 --> 00:11:03,570 drop, that blood pressure drops and that weight 287 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:06,549 drops. And those are the three fundamental 288 00:11:07,735 --> 00:11:09,034 measures of quality, 289 00:11:09,495 --> 00:11:11,814 and it happens in a way that, that 290 00:11:11,814 --> 00:11:14,375 members really enjoy. They don't feel like it's 291 00:11:14,375 --> 00:11:16,794 a burden, and they're excited about it. 292 00:11:17,814 --> 00:11:20,054 That's amazing to hear. You know? And great, 293 00:11:20,774 --> 00:11:23,070 as you mentioned, great results on the number 294 00:11:23,070 --> 00:11:25,629 side as well as, the anecdotal side of 295 00:11:25,629 --> 00:11:28,029 just, you know, having people really buy into 296 00:11:28,029 --> 00:11:28,529 it. 297 00:11:29,389 --> 00:11:31,389 Now before we wrap up here, I'm wondering 298 00:11:31,389 --> 00:11:32,370 if you could talk 299 00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:34,784 given some of these changes and how 300 00:11:35,345 --> 00:11:38,404 being, the needs from patients in the community, 301 00:11:38,944 --> 00:11:40,944 the most effective health care leaders need in 302 00:11:40,944 --> 00:11:41,444 order 303 00:11:41,824 --> 00:11:43,264 for the next 2 to 3 years or 304 00:11:43,264 --> 00:11:43,764 so. 305 00:11:44,784 --> 00:11:45,824 Yeah. You know, 306 00:11:46,544 --> 00:11:49,200 this question comes up a lot. And 307 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,100 in my view, it is flexibility. 308 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,279 Health care leaders need to be able to 309 00:11:55,279 --> 00:11:57,519 drive teams. There's no doubt they need to 310 00:11:57,519 --> 00:11:58,660 be good collaborators. 311 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,120 This is a team sport. No matter which 312 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,720 level you want to look at, whether it's 313 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,654 the patient level, the delivery level or even 314 00:12:05,654 --> 00:12:08,214 the administrative level. It is a team sport 315 00:12:08,214 --> 00:12:10,774 now. There's so much information out there. I 316 00:12:10,774 --> 00:12:13,254 think it's prudent for folks to keep up 317 00:12:13,254 --> 00:12:16,955 with what's what our developments in artificial intelligence 318 00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:19,500 for a variety of reasons. I know that 319 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:21,660 we, you know, at least it feels like 320 00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:23,340 we're at the top of a hype cycle 321 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:26,220 here, with AI. And and there are probably 322 00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:28,220 some folks out there saying, where's the delivery 323 00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:29,980 on this? You know, what's it gonna be? 324 00:12:29,980 --> 00:12:31,914 But I'll take you back to 1997. 325 00:12:32,375 --> 00:12:34,634 There was the same sort of feeling about 326 00:12:35,014 --> 00:12:36,955 webs and the Internet and, 327 00:12:37,335 --> 00:12:39,894 web services in the Internet. Everybody was saying, 328 00:12:39,894 --> 00:12:41,495 well, that's great. You know, you can talk 329 00:12:41,495 --> 00:12:44,389 to your friends, but where's the the real 330 00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:46,389 juice here? Now we all know that it 331 00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:47,929 has become a source of 332 00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:51,450 revenue for a variety of businesses, and it's 333 00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:53,690 critically important to our current economy. 334 00:12:54,070 --> 00:12:55,830 I think we're at that same place in 335 00:12:55,830 --> 00:12:58,065 AI. Yes. There's gonna be a fall off. 336 00:12:58,384 --> 00:13:01,345 There's gonna be a delay until people figure 337 00:13:01,345 --> 00:13:03,825 out how to really implement it in a 338 00:13:03,825 --> 00:13:06,705 way that brings value to the health care 339 00:13:06,705 --> 00:13:09,105 market. And in particular, the health care market 340 00:13:09,105 --> 00:13:10,784 can be kinda slow, and it can be 341 00:13:10,784 --> 00:13:11,284 difficult, 342 00:13:11,904 --> 00:13:13,500 to get off the ground. But I think 343 00:13:13,500 --> 00:13:15,980 leaders need to keep up with, what's going 344 00:13:15,980 --> 00:13:18,379 on in AI, learn about it. Now is 345 00:13:18,379 --> 00:13:21,740 the time to learn and help develop those 346 00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:23,980 tools that will, in the future, become the 347 00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:24,480 standard, 348 00:13:25,019 --> 00:13:27,440 by which, everything else is judged. 349 00:13:28,654 --> 00:13:30,095 That makes a lot of sense. And, you 350 00:13:30,095 --> 00:13:32,174 know, really, it's been fascinating to see how 351 00:13:32,174 --> 00:13:34,815 AI and other technology has advanced the field 352 00:13:34,815 --> 00:13:36,894 a lot over the last couple years. Doctor 353 00:13:36,894 --> 00:13:37,394 Grove 354 00:13:37,855 --> 00:13:39,615 joined us on the podcast today. This has 355 00:13:39,615 --> 00:13:40,835 been just a really, 356 00:13:41,215 --> 00:13:43,215 fun conversation, and I look forward to connecting 357 00:13:43,215 --> 00:13:44,355 with you again soon. 358 00:13:45,629 --> 00:13:47,870 Laura, thanks to you. Thanks to Becker's. It's 359 00:13:47,870 --> 00:13:50,429 always a pleasure to interact with you guys. 360 00:13:50,429 --> 00:13:51,889 I enjoyed a great deal.