WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.719 - The strategic agenda facing hospital and health system 2 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:06.819 - leaders right now is not a short list. 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:09.919 - Growth in a consolidating market, sustainable margins in 4 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:12.160 - a reimbursement environment that rarely moves in your 5 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:12.435 - favor, 6 00:00:12.995 --> 00:00:15.495 - a tech investment cycle that demands both urgency 7 00:00:15.634 --> 00:00:16.454 - and discipline, 8 00:00:16.914 --> 00:00:19.315 - and a workforce story that is still being 9 00:00:19.315 --> 00:00:19.815 - written. 10 00:00:20.515 --> 00:00:23.954 - Eker's fourteenth annual CEO CFO roundtable brings together 11 00:00:23.954 --> 00:00:27.315 - more than 1,500 executive level attendees and nearly 12 00:00:27.315 --> 00:00:30.190 - 400 speakers across four days of sessions that 13 00:00:30.190 --> 00:00:32.450 - are designed to help c suite leaders benchmark, 14 00:00:32.670 --> 00:00:34.530 - pressure test, and sharpen their priorities. 15 00:00:35.229 --> 00:00:37.149 - Not in the abstract, but against the real 16 00:00:37.149 --> 00:00:39.409 - decisions they'll face heading into the next year. 17 00:00:39.630 --> 00:00:41.070 - It's the kind of event you leave with 18 00:00:41.070 --> 00:00:42.909 - a clear sense of where you stand and 19 00:00:42.909 --> 00:00:43.814 - what comes next. 20 00:00:44.375 --> 00:00:46.534 - So join us November second through the fifth 21 00:00:46.534 --> 00:00:49.094 - at the Hyatt Regency in Chicago and come 22 00:00:49.094 --> 00:00:50.475 - ready to do the hard thinking. 23 00:00:50.854 --> 00:00:54.695 - Register on our events page at beckershospitalreview.com 24 00:00:54.695 --> 00:00:56.375 - by clicking on the events tab in the 25 00:00:56.375 --> 00:00:57.195 - upper right. 26 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.640 - Hello, and thank you so much for tuning 27 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:03.380 - into the Becker's Oncology Leadership podcast. 28 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.040 - I'm Elizabeth Rygerson, a reporter here at Becker's, 29 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:09.439 - and today, I am talking to doctor James 30 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:09.939 - McGee. 31 00:01:10.454 --> 00:01:10.954 - Doctor 32 00:01:11.334 --> 00:01:14.295 - McGee is the president of the OSF Health 33 00:01:14.295 --> 00:01:15.674 - Care Cancer Institute. 34 00:01:15.974 --> 00:01:17.894 - Doctor McGee, thank you so much for taking 35 00:01:17.894 --> 00:01:19.515 - the time to speak with me today. 36 00:01:19.894 --> 00:01:20.634 - Sure. No. 37 00:01:20.935 --> 00:01:23.254 - Before I dive into my questions, I'd love 38 00:01:23.254 --> 00:01:25.140 - if you could share a bit about your 39 00:01:25.299 --> 00:01:27.319 - background and your role at OSF 40 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:30.120 - and the Cancer Institute for our listeners. 41 00:01:31.379 --> 00:01:34.519 - Well, I'm I'm, board certified in radiation oncology, 42 00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:35.459 - and, 43 00:01:35.939 --> 00:01:37.640 - grew up in a very rural environment 44 00:01:38.019 --> 00:01:39.079 - in Central Illinois, 45 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:40.840 - extremely rural, 46 00:01:41.564 --> 00:01:42.784 - And then, had 47 00:01:43.084 --> 00:01:46.444 - training in Chicago, University of Chicago Northwestern, and 48 00:01:46.444 --> 00:01:47.185 - then did 49 00:01:48.284 --> 00:01:48.944 - the follow-up, 50 00:01:49.325 --> 00:01:51.644 - training at the University of Paris in various 51 00:01:51.644 --> 00:01:55.349 - aspects of, radiation treatment and then a master's 52 00:01:55.349 --> 00:01:57.750 - in health care management, Harvard School of Public 53 00:01:57.750 --> 00:01:58.250 - Health, 54 00:01:58.789 --> 00:02:02.009 - and came back to, practice in, Central Illinois. 55 00:02:02.390 --> 00:02:03.129 - And after, 56 00:02:03.909 --> 00:02:05.049 - eight years in, 57 00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:06.090 - Decatur, 58 00:02:06.469 --> 00:02:08.789 - moved to Peoria and started a cancer program 59 00:02:08.789 --> 00:02:11.485 - for OSF Health Care about about forty years 60 00:02:11.485 --> 00:02:11.985 - ago. 61 00:02:12.685 --> 00:02:14.465 - And, over that time, 62 00:02:14.764 --> 00:02:15.264 - we've 63 00:02:16.044 --> 00:02:19.025 - been able to develop more cancer treatment programs 64 00:02:19.084 --> 00:02:21.104 - for people in rural environments, 65 00:02:21.724 --> 00:02:22.284 - which is, 66 00:02:22.764 --> 00:02:25.185 - the nature of our health care system. 67 00:02:26.180 --> 00:02:27.000 - And our, 68 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:29.319 - big priority is always 69 00:02:29.699 --> 00:02:32.039 - to give access to those 70 00:02:32.419 --> 00:02:35.159 - types of treatments that people in rural environments 71 00:02:35.219 --> 00:02:35.719 - usually, 72 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:38.759 - struggle to have. So 73 00:02:39.335 --> 00:02:41.914 - we've put in a proton unit we for 74 00:02:42.534 --> 00:02:45.655 - enhanced radiotherapy and put in a brachytherapy area 75 00:02:45.655 --> 00:02:48.634 - for that type of access for patients. 76 00:02:49.175 --> 00:02:52.055 - But our our main work in many regards 77 00:02:52.055 --> 00:02:53.514 - has been to improve health, 78 00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:56.120 - since we are a health care organization. 79 00:02:56.979 --> 00:02:59.620 - And so we always focus on integrating with 80 00:02:59.620 --> 00:03:00.680 - primary care 81 00:03:01.060 --> 00:03:03.959 - and working on ways to improve early detection 82 00:03:04.019 --> 00:03:05.319 - and prevention of cancers, 83 00:03:06.019 --> 00:03:07.719 - so just to really try to 84 00:03:08.115 --> 00:03:10.534 - improve the health of, our our populations 85 00:03:10.914 --> 00:03:12.294 - in in rural environments. 86 00:03:13.634 --> 00:03:16.275 - Absolutely. And I appreciate you kinda, you know, 87 00:03:16.275 --> 00:03:18.534 - laying the land for our listeners to know, 88 00:03:19.555 --> 00:03:21.395 - where, you know, where you're coming from and 89 00:03:21.395 --> 00:03:23.634 - where OSF kind of stands in the broader 90 00:03:23.634 --> 00:03:24.800 - landscape landscape today. 91 00:03:25.099 --> 00:03:26.700 - I know you talked a lot about, you 92 00:03:26.700 --> 00:03:27.200 - know, 93 00:03:27.900 --> 00:03:29.740 - it's not just cancer. It's also, you know, 94 00:03:29.740 --> 00:03:32.060 - general health and partnering with primary care physicians 95 00:03:32.060 --> 00:03:33.439 - and all the different priorities 96 00:03:33.819 --> 00:03:35.760 - that you probably are juggling and balancing, 97 00:03:37.324 --> 00:03:39.405 - not just today, but in the coming months 98 00:03:39.405 --> 00:03:41.824 - and years and and the vision for everything. 99 00:03:42.205 --> 00:03:44.125 - What would you say, if you had to 100 00:03:44.125 --> 00:03:46.784 - narrow it down, is your biggest priority 101 00:03:47.085 --> 00:03:50.064 - at OSF Health Care Cancer Institute today? 102 00:03:51.090 --> 00:03:53.490 - Well, the biggest priority is trying to prevent 103 00:03:53.490 --> 00:03:53.990 - cancers 104 00:03:54.530 --> 00:03:56.469 - and to detect them early. That 105 00:03:56.770 --> 00:03:58.550 - that is our biggest priority. 106 00:03:59.330 --> 00:04:01.969 - You know, we can treat cancers. We we're 107 00:04:01.969 --> 00:04:04.310 - bringing in phase one research trials for 108 00:04:04.689 --> 00:04:07.645 - strange and exotic cancers that, you know, very 109 00:04:07.645 --> 00:04:10.844 - few people get. We're also doing a lot 110 00:04:10.844 --> 00:04:11.985 - of, work 111 00:04:12.364 --> 00:04:13.985 - in advanced radiotherapy 112 00:04:14.364 --> 00:04:16.384 - techniques and they're agnostics. 113 00:04:17.324 --> 00:04:18.464 - But in the end, 114 00:04:19.080 --> 00:04:22.139 - you know, any patient that gets cancer, especially 115 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:23.819 - when it's found at a late stage, 116 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:27.080 - that that's really a failure of health care. 117 00:04:27.080 --> 00:04:29.500 - Right? Mhmm. So our 118 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:32.699 - ten years ago, we started a program for 119 00:04:32.805 --> 00:04:34.264 - low dose CT screening, 120 00:04:34.884 --> 00:04:37.305 - and, now we're at very high rates. 121 00:04:37.685 --> 00:04:39.544 - So probably the highest in the nation 122 00:04:40.004 --> 00:04:42.404 - in terms of percentage of people in our 123 00:04:42.404 --> 00:04:44.664 - roles of holistic health care who've 124 00:04:45.365 --> 00:04:46.264 - met the criteria 125 00:04:46.884 --> 00:04:47.464 - to warrant 126 00:04:47.910 --> 00:04:50.470 - screening for lung cancer and who've had low 127 00:04:50.470 --> 00:04:53.350 - dose CT screening done and are enrolled in 128 00:04:53.350 --> 00:04:55.110 - a formal program for that. We've been able 129 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:57.210 - to get low dose CTs placed in our 130 00:04:57.670 --> 00:05:01.050 - many hospitals across the landscape of rural Illinois 131 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:02.009 - and 132 00:05:02.884 --> 00:05:06.084 - have engaged in research trials with blood tests 133 00:05:06.084 --> 00:05:08.644 - to see who's most in need of getting 134 00:05:08.644 --> 00:05:11.384 - those scans done. So that's really our emphasis 135 00:05:11.444 --> 00:05:13.204 - is, you know, when you look at all 136 00:05:13.204 --> 00:05:13.704 - these 137 00:05:14.084 --> 00:05:14.584 - different 138 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.120 - health issues, cancer is obviously the one that 139 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:19.980 - keeps growing and keeps getting worse. 140 00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:21.960 - And when you look look at sort of 141 00:05:21.960 --> 00:05:23.560 - what you might call a heat map of 142 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:25.020 - where cancers are at, 143 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:28.860 - it's right right here in in rural America, 144 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.699 - especially in Illinois and Iowa 145 00:05:31.274 --> 00:05:33.214 - and, extending into Indiana. 146 00:05:33.834 --> 00:05:35.514 - So we're right in the midst of the 147 00:05:35.514 --> 00:05:37.435 - worst of it, and that's that's our job 148 00:05:37.435 --> 00:05:39.615 - is to reduce that incidence and the mortality 149 00:05:39.754 --> 00:05:40.495 - from that. 150 00:05:41.995 --> 00:05:43.035 - I think the way you, 151 00:05:43.610 --> 00:05:45.310 - you phrase that is is so, 152 00:05:45.930 --> 00:05:47.149 - important. And 153 00:05:47.449 --> 00:05:49.209 - I, you know, cover so much about the 154 00:05:49.209 --> 00:05:51.629 - new innovations and and, like you said, exotic 155 00:05:52.569 --> 00:05:53.069 - cancers, 156 00:05:53.610 --> 00:05:56.410 - and and everything, but, really, that prevention piece 157 00:05:56.410 --> 00:05:58.509 - is so critical. So I appreciate you 158 00:05:58.845 --> 00:06:00.785 - really honing in on that for our listeners. 159 00:06:01.485 --> 00:06:03.884 - Are there any pressures you feel like cancer 160 00:06:03.884 --> 00:06:06.764 - centers, oncology service lines, or maybe even, you 161 00:06:06.764 --> 00:06:10.305 - know, rural cancer providers are facing right now 162 00:06:10.685 --> 00:06:13.264 - that maybe isn't getting talked enough 163 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:15.639 - talked about enough? 164 00:06:16.019 --> 00:06:17.939 - I think the problems of rural America are 165 00:06:17.939 --> 00:06:19.479 - not being talked about enough. 166 00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:22.180 - Mhmm. And in the midst of all that, 167 00:06:22.180 --> 00:06:23.959 - you know, reimbursement's always 168 00:06:24.259 --> 00:06:26.199 - a always an issue, always a problem. 169 00:06:26.615 --> 00:06:28.074 - Access is an issue. 170 00:06:28.615 --> 00:06:30.795 - Workforce is an issue. All those things, 171 00:06:31.574 --> 00:06:33.275 - are major issues, and 172 00:06:33.735 --> 00:06:36.535 - they're worse in rural America, it seems. I 173 00:06:36.535 --> 00:06:38.215 - chaired the state of Illinois Board of Health 174 00:06:38.215 --> 00:06:39.735 - for ten years. And during that time, we 175 00:06:39.735 --> 00:06:40.715 - had a lot of crises, 176 00:06:41.654 --> 00:06:45.039 - where people were, having high morbidity and mortality 177 00:06:45.039 --> 00:06:47.220 - rates in various neighborhoods around Chicago. 178 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:50.479 - And a lot of projects were done to 179 00:06:50.479 --> 00:06:51.699 - try to help those, 180 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:53.939 - individuals and those populations, 181 00:06:54.824 --> 00:06:58.264 - so called underserved and, you know, less privileged, 182 00:06:58.264 --> 00:06:59.164 - etcetera, etcetera. 183 00:06:59.544 --> 00:07:01.865 - But whenever I came down here to Central 184 00:07:01.865 --> 00:07:04.365 - Illinois and looked at our data versus Chicago, 185 00:07:04.504 --> 00:07:06.985 - we were always worse, but nobody was sending 186 00:07:06.985 --> 00:07:09.830 - us you know, those types of programs. So, 187 00:07:10.209 --> 00:07:12.290 - I think that if you ask me what 188 00:07:12.290 --> 00:07:14.769 - what we're facing right now is that we're 189 00:07:14.769 --> 00:07:17.490 - not getting special attention like we should for 190 00:07:17.490 --> 00:07:19.250 - rural America. As I know there are some, 191 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:22.050 - you know, fundings now for various research projects, 192 00:07:22.050 --> 00:07:23.029 - etcetera, etcetera. 193 00:07:23.764 --> 00:07:26.805 - But it's it's it's it's a major problem 194 00:07:26.805 --> 00:07:27.464 - in terms 195 00:07:28.324 --> 00:07:30.245 - of what where are all these cancers coming 196 00:07:30.245 --> 00:07:32.805 - from? Are they coming from pesticides and chemicals 197 00:07:32.805 --> 00:07:33.704 - put on crops? 198 00:07:34.245 --> 00:07:36.310 - You know, where where is this where is 199 00:07:36.310 --> 00:07:39.029 - this abundance of cancers really coming now that 200 00:07:39.029 --> 00:07:39.689 - we're seeing 201 00:07:40.149 --> 00:07:41.610 - less industrial pollution? 202 00:07:42.069 --> 00:07:42.810 - We're seeing 203 00:07:43.189 --> 00:07:46.310 - less smoking, and yet our incidence rates of 204 00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:48.410 - cancers, especially on younger people 205 00:07:49.085 --> 00:07:51.884 - and different organs, just keeps going up. So 206 00:07:51.884 --> 00:07:54.625 - there's something that's going on that we're not 207 00:07:55.085 --> 00:07:57.025 - tracking, we're not aware of, 208 00:07:57.485 --> 00:07:59.165 - and we're not doing enough, you know, to 209 00:07:59.165 --> 00:08:01.324 - really determine right now. So I think that's 210 00:08:01.324 --> 00:08:03.550 - the big pressure that I see for us 211 00:08:03.550 --> 00:08:05.470 - is we have all these people getting cancer, 212 00:08:05.470 --> 00:08:07.470 - and we don't really know how to turn 213 00:08:07.470 --> 00:08:08.129 - that around. 214 00:08:09.230 --> 00:08:11.629 - Yeah. That's such a interesting point too because, 215 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:13.569 - you know, when I think about, you know, 216 00:08:13.710 --> 00:08:16.689 - rural funding initiatives and programs that I've covered, 217 00:08:17.365 --> 00:08:19.604 - You know, it's not just about the clinical 218 00:08:19.604 --> 00:08:21.764 - care or it's not not just about, you 219 00:08:21.764 --> 00:08:24.324 - know, providing access to treatment, that piece that 220 00:08:24.324 --> 00:08:26.245 - you mentioned of, you know, why is it 221 00:08:26.245 --> 00:08:29.125 - happening, how are we studying, you know, why 222 00:08:29.125 --> 00:08:31.044 - these rates are going up. It's it's just 223 00:08:31.044 --> 00:08:31.704 - as important, 224 00:08:32.149 --> 00:08:34.070 - if not more important, you know, than than 225 00:08:34.070 --> 00:08:35.370 - the treatment piece itself. 226 00:08:36.389 --> 00:08:38.789 - Yeah. Very much so. You know, the treatment 227 00:08:38.789 --> 00:08:41.429 - piece is, you know, based somewhat on access. 228 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:42.730 - But, you know, again, 229 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:45.610 - when you get these late diagnoses of advanced 230 00:08:45.774 --> 00:08:48.355 - cancers, you're really spending a lot of money 231 00:08:49.134 --> 00:08:50.434 - using a lot of resources 232 00:08:51.054 --> 00:08:53.294 - and in the end, not having a very 233 00:08:53.294 --> 00:08:56.174 - satisfactory outcome for so many people. So it 234 00:08:56.254 --> 00:08:58.754 - it's the emphasis really has to move 235 00:08:59.339 --> 00:09:02.000 - toward early detection and and prevention 236 00:09:02.699 --> 00:09:04.699 - and, finding out why we're getting some of 237 00:09:04.699 --> 00:09:06.539 - these cancers and what needs to be done 238 00:09:06.539 --> 00:09:07.519 - to change that. 239 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:11.819 - Absolutely. Well, I'm gonna shift gears, make a 240 00:09:11.819 --> 00:09:13.740 - hard left here right now because it is 241 00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:15.794 - a Becker's podcast, podcast, and I do have 242 00:09:15.794 --> 00:09:17.414 - to ask you about AI. 243 00:09:18.194 --> 00:09:20.355 - So I'd love to know from your point 244 00:09:20.355 --> 00:09:21.014 - of view, 245 00:09:21.875 --> 00:09:24.595 - we are mindset around AI and, you know, 246 00:09:24.595 --> 00:09:26.855 - where the technology is genuinely 247 00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:30.379 - changing care, where is the hype kind of 248 00:09:30.379 --> 00:09:32.639 - outrunning the reality of the technology, 249 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:36.860 - are you navigating safety concerns at the Cancer 250 00:09:36.860 --> 00:09:38.879 - Institute, kind of what is, 251 00:09:39.339 --> 00:09:41.039 - just taking your temperature there? 252 00:09:41.934 --> 00:09:45.134 - Yeah. So radiation oncology is benefiting from AI 253 00:09:45.134 --> 00:09:47.534 - because of the ability to do some of 254 00:09:47.534 --> 00:09:49.954 - the tests that we do, like outlining 255 00:09:50.735 --> 00:09:53.774 - tumors and normal volumes of organs to avoid 256 00:09:53.774 --> 00:09:55.394 - in the treatment planning process. 257 00:09:55.730 --> 00:09:57.490 - Some of those things can be done by 258 00:09:57.490 --> 00:09:59.590 - AI, and it'll it'll save us time on 259 00:09:59.809 --> 00:10:02.309 - each individual case, you know, that we're planning. 260 00:10:03.170 --> 00:10:06.050 - In the medical oncology arena, I think it's, 261 00:10:06.290 --> 00:10:08.725 - going to help us as we develop our 262 00:10:08.725 --> 00:10:11.284 - own medical oncology practice. It'll help us to 263 00:10:11.284 --> 00:10:14.084 - know where various patients are, 264 00:10:14.725 --> 00:10:15.225 - what 265 00:10:15.684 --> 00:10:18.345 - the dem demographics of those people are, etcetera, 266 00:10:18.404 --> 00:10:20.824 - and allow us to really structure our practices 267 00:10:21.549 --> 00:10:23.950 - to find ways to get experts in those 268 00:10:23.950 --> 00:10:26.110 - cancers in front of those patients and vice 269 00:10:26.110 --> 00:10:28.110 - versa. So I think there's a lot with 270 00:10:28.110 --> 00:10:31.710 - scheduling in medical oncology and also then matching 271 00:10:31.710 --> 00:10:32.850 - to clinical trials, 272 00:10:33.629 --> 00:10:36.014 - that will be useful for AI to do. 273 00:10:36.254 --> 00:10:37.455 - So I think it has, you know, a 274 00:10:37.455 --> 00:10:38.995 - lot of promise in that regard. 275 00:10:39.695 --> 00:10:41.375 - On the other hand, you know, you gotta 276 00:10:41.375 --> 00:10:42.115 - keep your, 277 00:10:42.575 --> 00:10:44.335 - hand on the switch. You know, the other 278 00:10:44.335 --> 00:10:45.554 - day, we had a patient's, 279 00:10:46.014 --> 00:10:48.754 - contours done. Treatment plan was developed, 280 00:10:49.295 --> 00:10:50.095 - and was, 281 00:10:50.769 --> 00:10:52.789 - almost ready to go, and it was realized 282 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:55.409 - that what what had been contoured as bladder 283 00:10:55.409 --> 00:10:57.649 - was really a seroma from a prior lymph 284 00:10:57.649 --> 00:10:58.389 - node dissection, 285 00:10:59.329 --> 00:11:01.730 - and not the bladder itself at all. So 286 00:11:01.730 --> 00:11:03.169 - that would have been that would have been 287 00:11:03.169 --> 00:11:05.089 - a bad error had that, you know, gone 288 00:11:05.089 --> 00:11:08.274 - forth. So so, you know, AI can present 289 00:11:08.274 --> 00:11:08.835 - you with, 290 00:11:09.235 --> 00:11:10.615 - opportunities for improvement, 291 00:11:11.154 --> 00:11:11.654 - but 292 00:11:12.035 --> 00:11:14.595 - you really have to realize that it's not 293 00:11:14.595 --> 00:11:15.095 - perfect, 294 00:11:15.634 --> 00:11:18.035 - and you have to not be lulled into 295 00:11:18.035 --> 00:11:18.535 - complacency 296 00:11:18.915 --> 00:11:21.940 - about double checking everything. So we we, feel 297 00:11:21.940 --> 00:11:24.899 - like, you know, we're opting have its general 298 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:25.960 - day to day utility. 299 00:11:26.659 --> 00:11:28.259 - But you're still gonna have to have smart 300 00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:31.220 - doctors, in order to take advantage of of 301 00:11:31.220 --> 00:11:31.720 - that, 302 00:11:32.179 --> 00:11:33.399 - technology. And 303 00:11:33.714 --> 00:11:35.595 - I don't think I don't think AI is 304 00:11:35.595 --> 00:11:36.315 - gonna make, 305 00:11:37.154 --> 00:11:37.654 - that 306 00:11:38.034 --> 00:11:41.174 - equation change very much. Although, you know, just 307 00:11:41.475 --> 00:11:43.394 - like today, you know, wanted to know how 308 00:11:43.394 --> 00:11:45.014 - long a patient should be on, 309 00:11:45.394 --> 00:11:48.690 - hormone medication for their problem. So put that 310 00:11:48.690 --> 00:11:50.790 - in into open access 311 00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:53.750 - AI, and, it said right immediately, 312 00:11:54.050 --> 00:11:55.090 - you know, that it was, 313 00:11:55.490 --> 00:11:56.950 - you know, for a period of, 314 00:11:57.490 --> 00:12:00.210 - no more than six months. Okay. That's great. 315 00:12:00.210 --> 00:12:02.174 - Got that. Gave the reference. I could have 316 00:12:02.174 --> 00:12:03.695 - gone and looked that up in the reference, 317 00:12:03.695 --> 00:12:05.855 - but I saved myself five minutes of of 318 00:12:05.855 --> 00:12:07.235 - looking and searching for that 319 00:12:07.535 --> 00:12:09.934 - by just asking that question on my phone, 320 00:12:09.934 --> 00:12:11.235 - you know, of open evidence. 321 00:12:11.535 --> 00:12:14.174 - So lot of lot of conveniences and so 322 00:12:14.174 --> 00:12:15.615 - forth, but we we we have to be 323 00:12:15.615 --> 00:12:18.149 - very very much in in line with doing 324 00:12:18.149 --> 00:12:19.990 - what we've always done in terms of quality 325 00:12:19.990 --> 00:12:20.730 - and safety. 326 00:12:21.669 --> 00:12:23.829 - Absolutely. I love that kind of metaphor of 327 00:12:23.829 --> 00:12:25.610 - keeping your hand on the lever. Right? 328 00:12:25.990 --> 00:12:28.230 - I think it's something not all of our 329 00:12:28.230 --> 00:12:30.970 - listeners will will agree with and relate to. 330 00:12:31.795 --> 00:12:34.295 - The question I've been asking oncology leaders, 331 00:12:35.394 --> 00:12:37.315 - you know, who are in the leadership position 332 00:12:37.315 --> 00:12:40.035 - today, as you look towards the next generation 333 00:12:40.035 --> 00:12:41.875 - of oncology leaders, you know, who are just 334 00:12:41.875 --> 00:12:43.955 - joining the field or maybe working their way 335 00:12:43.955 --> 00:12:44.340 - up, 336 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:47.000 - Is there any challenge or problem 337 00:12:47.300 --> 00:12:49.779 - you think will be in their hands to 338 00:12:49.779 --> 00:12:51.960 - solve that the field isn't 339 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:54.980 - fully tackling right now, but you see kind 340 00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:57.220 - of in the future that they're those leaders 341 00:12:57.220 --> 00:12:59.720 - are gonna have to figure out some solutions? 342 00:13:01.075 --> 00:13:03.254 - Well, I think we have 343 00:13:03.715 --> 00:13:05.875 - done a lot, you know, with cigarettes and 344 00:13:05.875 --> 00:13:07.254 - so forth over the years. 345 00:13:07.634 --> 00:13:09.475 - And and what we're not doing enough with 346 00:13:09.475 --> 00:13:10.215 - is obesity. 347 00:13:10.914 --> 00:13:13.735 - Right. You know, it's driving so many cancers 348 00:13:13.875 --> 00:13:15.254 - developing, and it's also 349 00:13:15.730 --> 00:13:18.470 - so hindering of patients being able to tolerate 350 00:13:18.610 --> 00:13:21.110 - cancer therapies or even have some 351 00:13:21.410 --> 00:13:24.149 - cancer therapies, certain surgeries, certain radiations. 352 00:13:24.850 --> 00:13:27.649 - So, I think obesity is something that we're 353 00:13:27.649 --> 00:13:28.149 - still 354 00:13:28.944 --> 00:13:30.704 - turning our heads to a little bit, you 355 00:13:30.704 --> 00:13:31.524 - know, ignoring, 356 00:13:32.065 --> 00:13:33.444 - but it's it's a huge 357 00:13:34.065 --> 00:13:34.565 - problem. 358 00:13:35.345 --> 00:13:37.504 - And it's the new cigarette smoke. You know? 359 00:13:37.504 --> 00:13:39.824 - It's the new thing. It's the new cause 360 00:13:39.824 --> 00:13:42.004 - of cancer. It's the new thing that's everywhere, 361 00:13:42.509 --> 00:13:44.029 - and it's it's the thing we have to 362 00:13:44.029 --> 00:13:46.509 - do something about. So we have started a 363 00:13:46.509 --> 00:13:47.009 - clinic, 364 00:13:47.470 --> 00:13:49.410 - for, our cancer patients. 365 00:13:49.790 --> 00:13:51.070 - You know, a lot of a lot of 366 00:13:51.070 --> 00:13:53.629 - women have had treatment for breast cancer or 367 00:13:53.629 --> 00:13:57.584 - GYN cancers who have hormonal imbalances, or maybe 368 00:13:57.584 --> 00:14:00.545 - on some hormone medications, you know, suffer from 369 00:14:00.545 --> 00:14:01.764 - a lot of weight gain. 370 00:14:02.384 --> 00:14:05.345 - So we're looking, and have developed a clinic 371 00:14:05.345 --> 00:14:06.084 - that integrates 372 00:14:06.705 --> 00:14:09.024 - some of the resources of the cancer institute, 373 00:14:09.024 --> 00:14:10.644 - including the teaching kitchen, 374 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:12.129 - and, 375 00:14:12.929 --> 00:14:15.029 - general medical care, sometimes 376 00:14:15.649 --> 00:14:16.149 - medications, 377 00:14:17.490 --> 00:14:17.990 - also 378 00:14:18.610 --> 00:14:19.750 - exercise training, 379 00:14:20.690 --> 00:14:23.110 - various measurements of body mass, 380 00:14:23.410 --> 00:14:26.565 - muscle, and fat. All of that is coming 381 00:14:26.565 --> 00:14:28.184 - together in a in a clinic 382 00:14:28.644 --> 00:14:31.225 - for our patients that, for example, are 383 00:14:31.845 --> 00:14:34.425 - forty pounds overweight after breast cancer therapy, 384 00:14:34.804 --> 00:14:36.105 - depressed about it. 385 00:14:36.565 --> 00:14:38.725 - And so they're getting a lot of help 386 00:14:38.725 --> 00:14:39.225 - from 387 00:14:39.529 --> 00:14:41.370 - a little bit of psychological help, but then 388 00:14:41.370 --> 00:14:42.429 - the reality of 389 00:14:42.730 --> 00:14:44.649 - this is what in the teaching kitchen I'm 390 00:14:44.649 --> 00:14:45.790 - learning. This is, 391 00:14:46.410 --> 00:14:49.309 - something I've talked with them about GLP ones. 392 00:14:49.850 --> 00:14:52.970 - I'm getting my exercise prescribed and getting my 393 00:14:52.970 --> 00:14:54.429 - muscle mass and fat 394 00:14:54.735 --> 00:14:57.534 - ratio measured on a regular basis, getting my 395 00:14:57.534 --> 00:14:58.995 - weight checked, getting encouragement, 396 00:14:59.774 --> 00:15:02.914 - going walking with a group of, like minded, 397 00:15:03.934 --> 00:15:04.434 - patients, 398 00:15:04.975 --> 00:15:06.355 - every every day, 399 00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:09.389 - to get my exercise in. That that type 400 00:15:09.389 --> 00:15:11.309 - of clinic is really starting to take off 401 00:15:11.309 --> 00:15:13.470 - for us. I think I think that, 402 00:15:14.029 --> 00:15:16.290 - is a way that we're trying to address 403 00:15:16.669 --> 00:15:20.190 - this obesity epidemic in our patient population. And, 404 00:15:20.190 --> 00:15:22.095 - you know, some of these people were in 405 00:15:22.095 --> 00:15:24.095 - much better shape, you know, prior to getting 406 00:15:24.095 --> 00:15:26.654 - cancer and having this, you know, treatment. So 407 00:15:26.654 --> 00:15:28.815 - we we feel like that's a great step 408 00:15:28.815 --> 00:15:30.975 - for us right there. That's that, I think, 409 00:15:30.975 --> 00:15:31.455 - is, 410 00:15:31.934 --> 00:15:33.235 - the big challenge, though. 411 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:36.879 - Absolutely. I think you're the first who may 412 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:38.100 - have answered that way. 413 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:39.460 - So I'm excited, 414 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.160 - to see kind of what, you know, comes 415 00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:45.200 - from programs like you mentioned and and, like, 416 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.279 - you know, with the medications that you mentioned 417 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:49.379 - and the different therapies, you know, what 418 00:15:49.735 --> 00:15:51.995 - what that future solution will be. 419 00:15:52.695 --> 00:15:55.174 - Anyone who listens to the podcast knows my 420 00:15:55.174 --> 00:15:58.235 - favorite way to end conversations with oncology leaders 421 00:15:58.774 --> 00:16:00.855 - is asking them what's giving them hope about 422 00:16:00.855 --> 00:16:02.615 - the future of cancer care. So I'd love 423 00:16:02.615 --> 00:16:05.059 - to hear from you, doctor McGee, about what, 424 00:16:05.059 --> 00:16:07.139 - you know, what's on the horizon that's giving 425 00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:09.240 - you optimism when it comes to oncology. 426 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:13.399 - Well, we're doing a lot to improve access 427 00:16:13.460 --> 00:16:15.160 - and decrease cost of care. 428 00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:18.740 - So in radiation, for example, we're doing a 429 00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:21.295 - lot of research with our proton unit on 430 00:16:21.674 --> 00:16:25.035 - flash radiation therapy, which is, increasing the rate 431 00:16:25.035 --> 00:16:26.815 - at which a radiation treatment is delivered, 432 00:16:28.394 --> 00:16:30.014 - and increasing that dramatically, 433 00:16:30.715 --> 00:16:34.750 - you know, changing from an output of, 2,500 434 00:16:34.750 --> 00:16:37.070 - grads a minute to 700,000 435 00:16:37.070 --> 00:16:40.370 - grads a minute. And in that scenario then, 436 00:16:40.990 --> 00:16:43.089 - potentially, there's much less 437 00:16:43.470 --> 00:16:45.649 - reaction of normal tissues to radiation, 438 00:16:46.225 --> 00:16:49.044 - an equal reaction of tumor tissue to radiation, 439 00:16:49.585 --> 00:16:51.904 - and the number of treatments with radiation can 440 00:16:51.904 --> 00:16:54.164 - be reduced dramatically from, like, 441 00:16:54.465 --> 00:16:55.524 - 30 to three. 442 00:16:56.144 --> 00:16:58.625 - Oh. And so you you can you know, 443 00:16:58.625 --> 00:17:00.690 - I think we have a hard time with 444 00:17:00.850 --> 00:17:03.330 - the infrastructure we have now with radiation across 445 00:17:03.330 --> 00:17:04.950 - the landscape because you've got 446 00:17:05.329 --> 00:17:05.829 - many 447 00:17:06.130 --> 00:17:08.549 - radiation machines scattered all over the place 448 00:17:09.089 --> 00:17:10.150 - of varying quality. 449 00:17:11.009 --> 00:17:13.970 - You have people under pressure financially trying to 450 00:17:13.970 --> 00:17:15.750 - do as many treatments as possible 451 00:17:16.345 --> 00:17:18.125 - in order to get compensation. 452 00:17:18.745 --> 00:17:20.904 - I think what gives me hope are that 453 00:17:20.904 --> 00:17:21.965 - there will be modalities 454 00:17:22.345 --> 00:17:23.725 - like FLASH developed 455 00:17:24.105 --> 00:17:25.404 - that would allow for 456 00:17:25.705 --> 00:17:28.585 - the very expensive equipment to be used much 457 00:17:28.585 --> 00:17:31.005 - better by larger groups of patients, 458 00:17:31.465 --> 00:17:31.965 - but 459 00:17:32.309 --> 00:17:32.809 - only, 460 00:17:33.349 --> 00:17:35.589 - you know, in short intervals of time, not 461 00:17:35.589 --> 00:17:38.230 - requiring, you know, moving to, you know, a 462 00:17:38.230 --> 00:17:40.710 - faraway city for two months to get radiation, 463 00:17:40.710 --> 00:17:43.829 - but maybe making, you know, a a short 464 00:17:43.829 --> 00:17:45.450 - enough visit that you could come, 465 00:17:45.955 --> 00:17:48.035 - stay in provided housing for a couple of 466 00:17:48.035 --> 00:17:50.595 - nights and get your entire course of radiation 467 00:17:50.595 --> 00:17:51.095 - treatment. 468 00:17:51.475 --> 00:17:53.815 - And those types of things, I think, 469 00:17:54.275 --> 00:17:54.775 - decrease 470 00:17:55.315 --> 00:17:56.295 - cost of care, 471 00:17:56.914 --> 00:17:57.975 - decrease overpopulation 472 00:17:58.434 --> 00:17:58.934 - of 473 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:01.960 - equipment that's difficult to pay for and maintain 474 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:05.080 - and which drives a lot of unnecessary treatments, 475 00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:05.820 - quite honestly. 476 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:07.799 - And I think if we can get our 477 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.740 - handle around things like that 478 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:11.019 - in many ways, 479 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:13.400 - that we'll be able to do a much 480 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:14.140 - better job 481 00:18:14.664 --> 00:18:17.644 - of reducing cost, improving access for everyone, 482 00:18:18.105 --> 00:18:20.265 - and, just making more sense out of all 483 00:18:20.265 --> 00:18:20.765 - this. 484 00:18:21.944 --> 00:18:24.345 - Amazing. Well, I appreciate you, you know, tying 485 00:18:24.345 --> 00:18:26.984 - in that radiation oncology perspective too for our 486 00:18:26.984 --> 00:18:29.079 - listeners because I think it's so key and 487 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.279 - crucial, to these kinds of discussions. And that's 488 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.200 - actually all the time we have for today. 489 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.039 - So I just wanna thank you again for 490 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.119 - taking the time out of your day to 491 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:40.519 - talk with me and, share your perspective with 492 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:41.179 - our listeners. 493 00:18:41.879 --> 00:18:44.315 - Thank you. And thank you to our listeners 494 00:18:44.315 --> 00:18:46.255 - for tuning in to Becker's Oncology 495 00:18:46.555 --> 00:18:47.535 - Leadership podcast. 496 00:18:48.154 --> 00:18:49.674 - I invite you all to check out even 497 00:18:49.674 --> 00:18:51.375 - more Becker's Healthcare podcasts 498 00:18:51.755 --> 00:18:53.914 - at beckerspodcastsdot, 499 00:18:54.763 --> 00:18:56.523 - Thank you again to doctor McGee for joining 500 00:18:56.523 --> 00:18:58.683 - me and to our listeners for tuning in. 501 00:18:58.683 --> 00:18:59.663 - Have a great day.