WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:04.400 - Every health system executive right now is being 2 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:06.559 - asked to do something that has no useful 3 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:07.059 - precedent, 4 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:10.480 - make durable technology decisions in an environment that 5 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:12.820 - looks meaningfully different every six months. 6 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:14.419 - The pace isn't slowing, 7 00:00:14.775 --> 00:00:17.094 - the vendor landscape isn't getting simpler, and the 8 00:00:17.094 --> 00:00:19.035 - cost of missteps keeps rising. 9 00:00:19.975 --> 00:00:23.255 - Becker's eleventh annual IT and Revenue Cycle Conference, 10 00:00:23.255 --> 00:00:25.894 - The Future of AI and Digital Health, exists 11 00:00:25.894 --> 00:00:27.329 - for exactly this challenge. 12 00:00:27.890 --> 00:00:30.529 - Here, you'll find more than 2,500 executive level 13 00:00:30.529 --> 00:00:31.029 - attendees, 14 00:00:31.410 --> 00:00:33.989 - 600 plus speakers, and four days of sessions 15 00:00:34.049 --> 00:00:36.770 - built around the questions leaders are actually wrestling 16 00:00:36.770 --> 00:00:37.270 - with. 17 00:00:37.729 --> 00:00:39.189 - How to scale AI responsibly, 18 00:00:39.625 --> 00:00:41.804 - how to protect increasingly complex systems, 19 00:00:42.265 --> 00:00:44.024 - how to wring more performance out of the 20 00:00:44.024 --> 00:00:46.524 - revenue cycle, and how to make tech investments 21 00:00:46.585 --> 00:00:48.204 - that hold up over time. 22 00:00:48.825 --> 00:00:51.719 - Join us September fourteenth through the seventeenth at 23 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:52.780 - the Hilton Chicago. 24 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:55.320 - You can register on our events page at 25 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.500 - beckershospitalreview.com 26 00:00:57.559 --> 00:00:59.320 - by clicking on the events tab in the 27 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:00.059 - upper right. 28 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.340 - Hello, and welcome to the Becker's Healthcare podcast. 29 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:05.000 - My name is Chanel Banger, and today I'm 30 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.545 - excited to speak with regular guest, doctor Molok 31 00:01:07.545 --> 00:01:08.045 - Burrahed, 32 00:01:08.504 --> 00:01:10.844 - chief health innovation officer at DatasX 33 00:01:11.144 --> 00:01:14.125 - Digital Health Labs, who joins the podcast regularly 34 00:01:14.504 --> 00:01:17.224 - to share insights into some digital health trends 35 00:01:17.224 --> 00:01:19.704 - that he's keeping in. Doctor Burrahed, thank you 36 00:01:19.704 --> 00:01:21.689 - as always for joining me today. Could you 37 00:01:21.689 --> 00:01:24.009 - get us started out by giving a brief 38 00:01:24.009 --> 00:01:24.509 - introduction 39 00:01:24.890 --> 00:01:27.369 - for, listeners that may not be acquainted with 40 00:01:27.369 --> 00:01:30.009 - you yet? Hey. Thanks, Chanel. And always, honor 41 00:01:30.009 --> 00:01:31.789 - and pleasure to be on on the podcast. 42 00:01:32.250 --> 00:01:34.569 - And, yes, sir certainly background on me. I'm 43 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:35.789 - a physician by background. 44 00:01:36.145 --> 00:01:38.084 - My specialty is in brain injury and neurotrauma, 45 00:01:38.385 --> 00:01:40.145 - and that's actually been a good connector between 46 00:01:40.145 --> 00:01:41.745 - my digital health side as well as my 47 00:01:41.745 --> 00:01:44.545 - clinical side. And I'm still clinically active, seeing 48 00:01:44.545 --> 00:01:47.344 - patients, daily. And then my background on the 49 00:01:47.344 --> 00:01:49.584 - administrative side is, as you said, a chief 50 00:01:49.584 --> 00:01:52.450 - innovation officer on the Dactosex side, but also, 51 00:01:52.989 --> 00:01:54.289 - medical director of innovation 52 00:01:54.670 --> 00:01:56.829 - on the health system side. And so I 53 00:01:56.829 --> 00:01:58.909 - have a unique perspective because I straddle both 54 00:01:58.909 --> 00:02:01.489 - the health system and delivery of care 55 00:02:01.869 --> 00:02:04.905 - with the creation and researching of care from 56 00:02:04.905 --> 00:02:06.984 - the doctor's ex side. And so I've been, 57 00:02:07.224 --> 00:02:09.224 - blessed of the perspective of both sides in 58 00:02:09.224 --> 00:02:09.884 - this role. 59 00:02:10.665 --> 00:02:12.585 - Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much for that 60 00:02:12.585 --> 00:02:13.884 - introduction. And now, 61 00:02:14.344 --> 00:02:15.865 - to get in the meat of the podcast 62 00:02:15.865 --> 00:02:17.705 - a bit, what are you seeing right now 63 00:02:17.705 --> 00:02:19.729 - in digital health, and what what kind of 64 00:02:19.729 --> 00:02:21.310 - are you keeping your eye on right now? 65 00:02:21.689 --> 00:02:23.229 - Yeah. Thanks, Sean. Great question. 66 00:02:23.530 --> 00:02:24.489 - So I have a little bit of, I 67 00:02:24.489 --> 00:02:27.049 - guess, a little bit twist on what is 68 00:02:27.049 --> 00:02:27.709 - out there. 69 00:02:28.250 --> 00:02:30.650 - One is, I think, I'm one excited by 70 00:02:30.650 --> 00:02:34.245 - the immense increase in digital health technology that's 71 00:02:34.245 --> 00:02:36.344 - out there and the quality of that technology 72 00:02:36.405 --> 00:02:37.465 - that we're seeing 73 00:02:37.925 --> 00:02:40.905 - with, improvements in the EMR space, and usability, 74 00:02:41.444 --> 00:02:43.544 - improvements in the AI built within the EMR, 75 00:02:44.245 --> 00:02:46.324 - AI tools that we all use. I won't 76 00:02:46.324 --> 00:02:47.925 - name the companies, but I think we all 77 00:02:47.925 --> 00:02:50.039 - know the most common ones out there. 78 00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:52.840 - And and so there's a lot of 79 00:02:53.219 --> 00:02:55.400 - increased prevalence of the use of these technologies 80 00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:57.000 - in everyday life. 81 00:02:57.459 --> 00:02:59.139 - And but one of the things that I 82 00:02:59.139 --> 00:03:00.280 - noticed is, 83 00:03:00.694 --> 00:03:02.294 - you know, we have this concept of human 84 00:03:02.294 --> 00:03:03.735 - in the middle. But even if we have 85 00:03:03.735 --> 00:03:05.495 - AI, we'll have a human in the middle 86 00:03:05.495 --> 00:03:07.575 - to check things to make sure that we 87 00:03:07.575 --> 00:03:08.075 - ensure 88 00:03:08.534 --> 00:03:09.594 - things go well. 89 00:03:10.055 --> 00:03:12.135 - But that, I think, has been one of 90 00:03:12.135 --> 00:03:13.814 - the things that we need to really look 91 00:03:13.814 --> 00:03:15.814 - at and understand what human in the middle 92 00:03:15.814 --> 00:03:16.314 - means. 93 00:03:16.969 --> 00:03:19.530 - Because although every company and everyone in their 94 00:03:19.530 --> 00:03:20.969 - protocols will say we have a human in 95 00:03:20.969 --> 00:03:21.629 - the middle, 96 00:03:22.169 --> 00:03:23.849 - the question is, how do we use that 97 00:03:23.849 --> 00:03:26.090 - human and do we respect the human when 98 00:03:26.090 --> 00:03:28.650 - there's a disagreement between the AI and the 99 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:30.784 - human? And I'll give you an example that 100 00:03:30.784 --> 00:03:32.625 - happens in the health care space. I'm not 101 00:03:32.625 --> 00:03:34.884 - gonna name any systems, but where, 102 00:03:35.425 --> 00:03:36.784 - a patient may come in, let's say, to 103 00:03:36.784 --> 00:03:39.664 - the emergency room, a physician evaluates them and 104 00:03:39.664 --> 00:03:42.145 - decides they need something. Now from an AI 105 00:03:42.145 --> 00:03:44.719 - perspective or an algorithm perspective or protocol perspective 106 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:46.319 - that may be put into place in the 107 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:46.819 - EMR, 108 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:49.199 - that might be different recommendation. Like, they may 109 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:51.039 - may or may not recommend an e, an 110 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:51.539 - X-ray. 111 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:53.519 - Physician might recommend, hey. We need to have 112 00:03:53.519 --> 00:03:54.579 - a CT scan, 113 00:03:54.959 --> 00:03:57.199 - whereas the AI says no CT scan is 114 00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:57.699 - indicated. 115 00:03:58.784 --> 00:04:01.365 - Now in these areas, a lot of times, 116 00:04:01.664 --> 00:04:03.344 - we should trust physicians. Say, hey. If we 117 00:04:03.344 --> 00:04:05.425 - need this, additional study or if we need 118 00:04:05.425 --> 00:04:07.205 - this test, then we should, 119 00:04:07.745 --> 00:04:10.145 - allow them to have that individual freedom to 120 00:04:10.145 --> 00:04:11.044 - decide because 121 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:12.620 - the patient is individual. 122 00:04:13.239 --> 00:04:14.759 - And they don't fit a database. They don't 123 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:17.560 - fit certain things. A physician can can certainly 124 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:19.240 - see a patient evaluate them based on their 125 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:20.300 - experience, expertise, 126 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:22.120 - and this is gonna be true for physician, 127 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:23.100 - nurses, etcetera. 128 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:24.539 - But oftentimes, 129 00:04:25.334 --> 00:04:27.514 - when there's that disconnect between 130 00:04:27.894 --> 00:04:29.654 - what the physician is recommending and what the 131 00:04:29.654 --> 00:04:30.634 - AI is recommending, 132 00:04:31.175 --> 00:04:33.334 - a lot of times, a health system or 133 00:04:33.334 --> 00:04:33.995 - an administrator 134 00:04:34.774 --> 00:04:36.774 - will say, well, the AI said this. Why 135 00:04:36.774 --> 00:04:39.406 - are you recommending this? And creates a a 136 00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:41.860 - an inherent conflict there. And although there's a 137 00:04:41.860 --> 00:04:43.720 - human in the middle with a physician there, 138 00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:46.520 - what is happening is that now you're disbelieving 139 00:04:46.660 --> 00:04:49.720 - the human because of that disagreement. And so 140 00:04:49.939 --> 00:04:51.620 - having it simply having a human in the 141 00:04:51.620 --> 00:04:54.555 - middle is one thing. Allowing and supporting the 142 00:04:54.555 --> 00:04:56.475 - human in the middle and saying that, hey, 143 00:04:56.475 --> 00:04:59.115 - despite the disagreement, we will support you. Unless 144 00:04:59.115 --> 00:05:01.455 - there's something egregious, you know, humans make mistakes, 145 00:05:01.675 --> 00:05:03.514 - but so does AI. And so I think 146 00:05:03.514 --> 00:05:06.235 - we need to navigate that that disagreement a 147 00:05:06.235 --> 00:05:07.935 - bit better than we are right now. 148 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:10.699 - And what's something that leaders can do to 149 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:12.460 - get ahead of this? What can they do 150 00:05:12.460 --> 00:05:13.199 - right now? 151 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:15.439 - So I think the first thing is to 152 00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:17.500 - be curious. Right? And I feel like I'm 153 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:20.379 - quoting Ted Lasso here with, with this statement, 154 00:05:20.379 --> 00:05:22.664 - but I think be curious is the first 155 00:05:22.664 --> 00:05:25.644 - thing is when there is a a disagreement 156 00:05:25.704 --> 00:05:27.625 - on one side or the other, instead of 157 00:05:27.625 --> 00:05:29.305 - assuming that one is right or one is 158 00:05:29.305 --> 00:05:31.625 - wrong, we should at least, reach out and 159 00:05:31.625 --> 00:05:33.944 - talk to the individual, have a conversation, say, 160 00:05:33.944 --> 00:05:36.000 - hey. We saw this was the recommendation from 161 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.680 - our protocol. We saw this was what's in 162 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:38.339 - the EMR, 163 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:41.779 - and you decided something different. Help us understand 164 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.020 - what you're thinking, why, what was the reason, 165 00:05:44.080 --> 00:05:45.460 - what's the the situation. 166 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.939 - And I think having that conversation 167 00:05:48.814 --> 00:05:50.435 - to explore and understand, 168 00:05:50.814 --> 00:05:53.074 - not to alleged wrongdoing, 169 00:05:53.535 --> 00:05:55.294 - I think that's the first step in this, 170 00:05:55.294 --> 00:05:57.854 - is have the open pathway, have the open 171 00:05:57.854 --> 00:05:58.354 - conversation, 172 00:05:58.894 --> 00:06:01.629 - assume that the person is right, and then 173 00:06:01.629 --> 00:06:04.050 - find out what went on and and understand 174 00:06:04.110 --> 00:06:06.589 - and and do that better rather than assuming 175 00:06:06.589 --> 00:06:08.990 - that the person is wrong and they're doing 176 00:06:08.990 --> 00:06:10.209 - something incorrect. 177 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:12.430 - Got it. Got it. Thank you so much 178 00:06:12.430 --> 00:06:13.730 - for that actionable advice. 179 00:06:14.204 --> 00:06:15.884 - And before I let you go, is there 180 00:06:15.884 --> 00:06:17.665 - anything else that listeners should know? 181 00:06:18.365 --> 00:06:20.845 - I think, it's great that there's such a 182 00:06:20.845 --> 00:06:22.785 - proliferation of fantastic technology. 183 00:06:23.485 --> 00:06:24.925 - I think we just have to be careful 184 00:06:24.925 --> 00:06:26.305 - in today's world of 185 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:28.959 - trusting the technology too much. As we've seen 186 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:30.740 - in the headlines the last few days, especially, 187 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.160 - that as great as AI is, it does 188 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.060 - have its limitations. 189 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.160 - Whether it be from driving cars that are 190 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.979 - autonomous driving, to health care, to 191 00:06:41.394 --> 00:06:43.555 - algorithmic trading in the stock market, all these 192 00:06:43.555 --> 00:06:46.834 - different places that now you're seeing proliferation of 193 00:06:46.834 --> 00:06:47.334 - AI. 194 00:06:47.714 --> 00:06:49.474 - We still need to be careful about how 195 00:06:49.474 --> 00:06:51.555 - the technology is used and know that there 196 00:06:51.555 --> 00:06:53.314 - are limits on that, and nothing is perfect. 197 00:06:53.314 --> 00:06:54.375 - Humans aren't perfect. 198 00:06:54.699 --> 00:06:56.139 - Technology is not perfect, and we have to 199 00:06:56.139 --> 00:06:57.920 - find a better balance and just appreciate 200 00:06:58.620 --> 00:07:00.399 - the limitations that we all have. 201 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:02.939 - Absolutely. Well, that's a great note to end 202 00:07:02.939 --> 00:07:04.939 - on. Doctor Perroha, I wanna thank you as 203 00:07:04.939 --> 00:07:06.779 - always for joining me today and for sharing 204 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:08.860 - your insights on the Becker's Healthcare podcast. Thank 205 00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:11.552 - you so much. Thanks, Chanel. Really appreciate it.