1
00:00:01,839 --> 00:00:04,339
This is where health care leadership comes together.

2
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,599
Becker's sixteenth annual meeting brings more than 3,500

3
00:00:07,599 --> 00:00:10,800
hospital and health system executives and nearly 800

4
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:11,939
speakers to Chicago

5
00:00:12,264 --> 00:00:14,205
April.

6
00:00:14,504 --> 00:00:17,224
This year's event includes keynote conversations with Dallas

7
00:00:17,224 --> 00:00:20,184
Cowboys legend Troy Aikman and former president George

8
00:00:20,184 --> 00:00:22,824
w Bush. For the agenda and event details,

9
00:00:22,824 --> 00:00:25,144
visit beckershospitalreview.com

10
00:00:25,144 --> 00:00:26,744
and click on the events tab in the

11
00:00:26,744 --> 00:00:29,440
upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you

12
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,260
in Chicago.

13
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,740
This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare

14
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:35,380
Podcast.

15
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,760
I'm thrilled today to be joined by a

16
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,539
brilliant physician leader.

17
00:00:40,215 --> 00:00:42,554
We're joined today by doctor Bashir Agboola.

18
00:00:43,094 --> 00:00:43,994
Doctor Agboola

19
00:00:44,454 --> 00:00:46,795
for for for more than a decade,

20
00:00:47,575 --> 00:00:49,435
served at Hospital for Special Surgery,

21
00:00:49,975 --> 00:00:53,015
becoming the vice president, associate CIO, and chief

22
00:00:53,015 --> 00:00:56,289
technology officer. Just an absolutely brilliant person.

23
00:00:56,670 --> 00:00:58,989
He's now doing some consulting and some other

24
00:00:58,989 --> 00:01:02,129
things, but an absolutely brilliant career. Doctor Agbula,

25
00:01:02,189 --> 00:01:04,290
can you take a moment and introduce yourself,

26
00:01:04,590 --> 00:01:06,269
and and tell people a little bit about

27
00:01:06,269 --> 00:01:08,209
what you've done and what you're doing today?

28
00:01:08,835 --> 00:01:10,674
Thank you very much, Scott. Thanks, for the

29
00:01:10,674 --> 00:01:11,715
opportunity to,

30
00:01:12,515 --> 00:01:15,155
chat with you and and your audience. It's

31
00:01:15,155 --> 00:01:16,674
been it's been a minute since our last

32
00:01:16,674 --> 00:01:17,174
conversation.

33
00:01:18,034 --> 00:01:21,015
So, as you mentioned, I was most recently

34
00:01:21,155 --> 00:01:23,094
at the hospital for special surgery,

35
00:01:23,659 --> 00:01:25,420
for a long stretch. And before then, I

36
00:01:25,420 --> 00:01:26,560
was with Memorial

37
00:01:27,259 --> 00:01:29,759
Kettering Cancer Center also in New York City.

38
00:01:30,299 --> 00:01:33,579
Currently, I am with Interdigm. At Interdigm, we're

39
00:01:33,579 --> 00:01:35,840
a technology consultant and advisory

40
00:01:36,219 --> 00:01:36,719
firm.

41
00:01:37,115 --> 00:01:39,775
We advise health care systems and enterprise

42
00:01:40,155 --> 00:01:42,015
enterprises on digital transformation,

43
00:01:42,795 --> 00:01:45,695
AI strategy, infrastructure modernization, and governance.

44
00:01:46,395 --> 00:01:48,875
Our focus is really not just on deploying

45
00:01:48,875 --> 00:01:50,015
technology, but operationalizing

46
00:01:50,314 --> 00:01:53,319
it, ensuring that investments in AI, cloud, cyber,

47
00:01:53,319 --> 00:01:54,140
data platforms

48
00:01:54,599 --> 00:01:55,900
all translate into

49
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,319
workflow a workflow integration and financial performance as

50
00:01:59,319 --> 00:02:00,939
well as improved patient experience.

51
00:02:01,719 --> 00:02:03,900
My careers in health care technology

52
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,340
has largely been at the intersection of technology,

53
00:02:08,224 --> 00:02:11,044
operations, and executive leadership, helping organizations

54
00:02:11,425 --> 00:02:12,324
move from

55
00:02:12,944 --> 00:02:13,444
experimentation

56
00:02:13,745 --> 00:02:14,405
to sustainable

57
00:02:14,705 --> 00:02:15,205
execution.

58
00:02:15,745 --> 00:02:16,805
I'm not a clinician.

59
00:02:17,664 --> 00:02:18,564
I'm a technologist

60
00:02:18,944 --> 00:02:19,685
and business

61
00:02:20,145 --> 00:02:21,424
leader, but I've spent,

62
00:02:21,905 --> 00:02:22,724
a long time

63
00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:26,239
hanging out with doctors and, clinicians enough to

64
00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:27,919
know what their pains are and,

65
00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:31,139
to to assist them in the mission of,

66
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,400
efficient care delivery. Happy to happy to talk

67
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:34,900
more.

68
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,955
No. Thank you. As hospitals' health systems utilize

69
00:02:37,955 --> 00:02:39,655
technology, work with technology,

70
00:02:40,834 --> 00:02:41,735
what's working?

71
00:02:42,034 --> 00:02:44,115
Where does AI meet the hype? Where does

72
00:02:44,115 --> 00:02:46,215
it not? What's going well?

73
00:02:46,754 --> 00:02:49,634
Yeah. I'm really excited at the prospect of

74
00:02:49,634 --> 00:02:50,134
AI,

75
00:02:50,719 --> 00:02:52,800
helping with some of the pinpoints we have

76
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,120
in health care. You know, often health care

77
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,879
gets to bad rap as being sort of

78
00:02:56,879 --> 00:02:59,599
a laggard to technology adoption. But in the

79
00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:00,500
case of AI,

80
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,539
the industry has actually been

81
00:03:03,915 --> 00:03:06,314
really at the forefront in in certain aspects

82
00:03:06,314 --> 00:03:06,814
of,

83
00:03:07,354 --> 00:03:10,415
AI adoption because there are some real challenges

84
00:03:10,474 --> 00:03:11,694
that we can address

85
00:03:12,155 --> 00:03:14,655
and, realize value quickly,

86
00:03:15,514 --> 00:03:17,455
with, with AI. So,

87
00:03:17,939 --> 00:03:20,360
I'm excited, for example, at,

88
00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:23,620
one of the big problems that we struggle

89
00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:25,860
with in health care, which is with the

90
00:03:25,860 --> 00:03:28,200
workforce and and clinician burnout.

91
00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:30,980
And we we all we've all heard about

92
00:03:30,980 --> 00:03:33,159
the how much time clinicians

93
00:03:33,914 --> 00:03:34,414
spend,

94
00:03:35,194 --> 00:03:35,694
doing,

95
00:03:36,634 --> 00:03:37,775
things other than

96
00:03:38,155 --> 00:03:40,074
being in front of a patient and caring

97
00:03:40,074 --> 00:03:41,534
for a patient and being

98
00:03:41,914 --> 00:03:44,955
present with a patient. And so we we've

99
00:03:44,955 --> 00:03:47,340
seen examples where, for for example, with things

100
00:03:47,340 --> 00:03:48,080
like ambient,

101
00:03:48,860 --> 00:03:51,819
AI scribes, where the AI listens to the,

102
00:03:52,219 --> 00:03:55,360
conversation between the clinician and the patient

103
00:03:55,659 --> 00:03:58,560
and is able to capture clinically relevant information

104
00:03:58,780 --> 00:03:59,919
for insertion,

105
00:04:00,379 --> 00:04:00,879
into

106
00:04:01,395 --> 00:04:01,895
the,

107
00:04:02,354 --> 00:04:04,275
the medical records of the patient. I mean,

108
00:04:04,275 --> 00:04:05,094
that's just

109
00:04:05,555 --> 00:04:07,175
it's one of the fastest

110
00:04:07,634 --> 00:04:09,875
growing instance of technology adoption that I have

111
00:04:09,875 --> 00:04:11,655
seen in my career in health care.

112
00:04:12,034 --> 00:04:15,634
And and it's the impact is dramatic. Giving

113
00:04:15,634 --> 00:04:17,029
time back to physicians,

114
00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:21,089
improving the quality of their interactions with their

115
00:04:21,089 --> 00:04:23,649
patients. And that's just one example of where

116
00:04:23,649 --> 00:04:26,629
AI is helping to solve real world problems

117
00:04:27,089 --> 00:04:29,009
in health care, and then there are many,

118
00:04:29,009 --> 00:04:30,470
many more in in the works.

119
00:04:31,514 --> 00:04:33,435
Where do you see for we see sort

120
00:04:33,435 --> 00:04:34,095
of cascading

121
00:04:34,475 --> 00:04:35,855
use cases for AI.

122
00:04:36,394 --> 00:04:37,834
Talk a little bit about where you're the

123
00:04:37,834 --> 00:04:40,014
most excited about some of those use cases.

124
00:04:40,394 --> 00:04:43,675
Yeah. So, so the, clinical documentation, as I

125
00:04:43,675 --> 00:04:45,435
I just described in the case of Ambient

126
00:04:45,435 --> 00:04:46,814
AI Scribe is one.

127
00:04:47,170 --> 00:04:49,509
Predictive analytics is another area

128
00:04:50,050 --> 00:04:52,290
that act and that act interestingly, that's one

129
00:04:52,290 --> 00:04:54,449
area that we've been working on for many,

130
00:04:54,449 --> 00:04:56,370
many, many years in the background before the

131
00:04:56,370 --> 00:04:56,870
whole,

132
00:04:57,569 --> 00:04:59,410
excitement about g and a that g and

133
00:04:59,410 --> 00:05:01,250
a I created a few over the last

134
00:05:01,250 --> 00:05:03,675
few years. Predictive analytics is one of the

135
00:05:03,675 --> 00:05:06,334
areas where AI can actually help to

136
00:05:06,634 --> 00:05:09,915
bring about the promise of personalized medicine that

137
00:05:09,915 --> 00:05:11,694
we've talked about for a long time.

138
00:05:12,154 --> 00:05:14,574
In healthcare, we have lots of data. Fragmented

139
00:05:14,714 --> 00:05:18,350
data, you know, data in dark places. But,

140
00:05:18,930 --> 00:05:21,170
we're learning, and we're learning to bring the

141
00:05:21,170 --> 00:05:21,670
data

142
00:05:22,129 --> 00:05:22,629
together.

143
00:05:23,009 --> 00:05:25,670
And with that, to do predictive analytics,

144
00:05:26,689 --> 00:05:28,529
off of that data that would allow us

145
00:05:28,529 --> 00:05:30,629
to personalize the care

146
00:05:31,009 --> 00:05:34,444
that each patient would get, you know, develop,

147
00:05:35,144 --> 00:05:37,944
therapeutics that are tailored to the peculiar needs

148
00:05:37,944 --> 00:05:39,884
and the peculiar physiology

149
00:05:40,344 --> 00:05:42,904
of a patient. And that's that's another area

150
00:05:42,904 --> 00:05:43,224
where,

151
00:05:44,185 --> 00:05:45,884
we can we can finally,

152
00:05:46,745 --> 00:05:49,360
over the next, I hope, few years, come

153
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,300
up with the the promise of,

154
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:52,180
personalized,

155
00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:53,379
medicine.

156
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,419
Thank you. And talk about doctor Abolak.

157
00:05:56,879 --> 00:05:59,220
What are you personally most excited about currently?

158
00:05:59,599 --> 00:06:01,279
Where are you most focused and excited this

159
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:01,725
year?

160
00:06:02,125 --> 00:06:02,625
So,

161
00:06:03,964 --> 00:06:05,185
there's a lot to be

162
00:06:05,564 --> 00:06:07,564
excited excited about, you know, in the midst

163
00:06:07,564 --> 00:06:08,925
of all the hype that's out there. And

164
00:06:08,925 --> 00:06:10,785
there there's always so much hype in technology

165
00:06:10,925 --> 00:06:11,904
and so much buzz.

166
00:06:12,764 --> 00:06:15,404
But for me, personally, I've I've been really

167
00:06:15,404 --> 00:06:18,470
excited at the opportunity to work on building

168
00:06:18,770 --> 00:06:20,470
structured governance frameworks,

169
00:06:21,330 --> 00:06:24,629
to, assist technology leaders and executives

170
00:06:25,410 --> 00:06:28,129
in in optimizing their technology investments. And I

171
00:06:28,129 --> 00:06:29,954
I I I did some work last year,

172
00:06:30,034 --> 00:06:32,694
some research, some doctoral level research work on

173
00:06:32,834 --> 00:06:34,534
the effective strategies for,

174
00:06:35,074 --> 00:06:38,594
health care leaders to optimize their their technology

175
00:06:38,594 --> 00:06:40,394
investments. Because we we we live in a

176
00:06:40,514 --> 00:06:42,615
particularly in health care, we live in a,

177
00:06:42,995 --> 00:06:44,134
capital constrained

178
00:06:44,834 --> 00:06:45,334
environment.

179
00:06:46,170 --> 00:06:47,790
In in health care, our spend,

180
00:06:48,250 --> 00:06:49,949
as a percentage of revenue

181
00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:52,889
is probably about maybe a thought to about

182
00:06:52,889 --> 00:06:54,830
half of what you might see,

183
00:06:55,370 --> 00:06:57,529
for for health care, for technology that is,

184
00:06:57,769 --> 00:06:59,209
compared to what you might see in other

185
00:06:59,209 --> 00:07:01,714
industries like the financial services sector. We'll probably

186
00:07:01,714 --> 00:07:04,375
spend, like, four to 5% for many systems,

187
00:07:04,995 --> 00:07:07,254
as opposed to 10% or more in financial

188
00:07:07,314 --> 00:07:07,814
services

189
00:07:08,115 --> 00:07:09,654
and some other sectors. So,

190
00:07:10,034 --> 00:07:12,754
so the it's important for technology leaders to

191
00:07:12,754 --> 00:07:14,694
to know how best to optimize

192
00:07:15,509 --> 00:07:16,569
the spend

193
00:07:17,269 --> 00:07:20,149
in technology in health care. So I'm I'm

194
00:07:20,149 --> 00:07:22,089
excited and focused on,

195
00:07:22,870 --> 00:07:23,370
unearthing

196
00:07:23,910 --> 00:07:26,230
the best strategies that some of the best

197
00:07:26,230 --> 00:07:28,970
technology leaders out there have found,

198
00:07:29,574 --> 00:07:32,534
to make sure that every digital dollar that

199
00:07:32,534 --> 00:07:33,354
they spend

200
00:07:33,894 --> 00:07:35,995
is well spent towards achieving,

201
00:07:36,694 --> 00:07:39,014
the aims, the the quadruple aims of of

202
00:07:39,014 --> 00:07:39,914
of health care.

203
00:07:41,175 --> 00:07:43,014
Thank you very, very much. And and talk

204
00:07:43,014 --> 00:07:44,454
a little bit about doctor Bill. You've had

205
00:07:44,454 --> 00:07:45,430
this great career.

206
00:07:45,970 --> 00:07:48,149
What advice would you give to emerging leaders?

207
00:07:49,410 --> 00:07:50,550
What do you tell them?

208
00:07:51,170 --> 00:07:52,610
So there's a few things.

209
00:07:53,089 --> 00:07:54,069
So one,

210
00:07:54,610 --> 00:07:57,110
I'll I'll start with the, an advice,

211
00:07:57,649 --> 00:08:00,314
a statement of that I learned years ago.

212
00:08:00,314 --> 00:08:02,555
And I've and and I love to to

213
00:08:02,555 --> 00:08:04,634
repeat this quote as often as I get

214
00:08:04,634 --> 00:08:06,974
the chance to. This is a quote attributed

215
00:08:07,595 --> 00:08:10,235
to a former head of strategic planning at

216
00:08:10,235 --> 00:08:11,854
the Royal Dutch Shell,

217
00:08:12,529 --> 00:08:14,529
many decades ago, he said something to the

218
00:08:14,529 --> 00:08:17,569
effect that your ability to learn faster than

219
00:08:17,569 --> 00:08:20,870
the competition might be the only sustainable advantage

220
00:08:21,009 --> 00:08:22,310
you have in the future.

221
00:08:23,009 --> 00:08:24,850
So I I that I think that's a

222
00:08:24,850 --> 00:08:25,350
powerful,

223
00:08:25,970 --> 00:08:26,470
statement.

224
00:08:27,044 --> 00:08:29,865
So both as individual leaders and as organizations,

225
00:08:30,644 --> 00:08:34,024
we have to adopt the practice of being

226
00:08:34,164 --> 00:08:35,065
fast learners.

227
00:08:35,445 --> 00:08:36,644
So we have to learn. So I would

228
00:08:36,644 --> 00:08:38,325
say to leaders that you have to learn.

229
00:08:38,325 --> 00:08:40,345
There's a lot that's changing right now.

230
00:08:41,049 --> 00:08:42,569
You know, so as leaders, you have to

231
00:08:42,569 --> 00:08:44,889
learn technology. You have to learn finance. You

232
00:08:44,889 --> 00:08:47,209
have to learn the core business operations of

233
00:08:47,209 --> 00:08:50,509
the enterprise that you're part of. So learning

234
00:08:51,049 --> 00:08:54,089
broadly and learning fast would be my, first

235
00:08:54,089 --> 00:08:56,414
advice. The second advice would be to think

236
00:08:56,414 --> 00:08:58,595
in terms of systems and not silos.

237
00:08:58,975 --> 00:09:00,174
You know? There there's,

238
00:09:00,575 --> 00:09:02,575
systems thinking isn't, recognized,

239
00:09:03,615 --> 00:09:05,615
as a as a capability and a strength

240
00:09:05,615 --> 00:09:07,615
as as much as it should in our

241
00:09:07,615 --> 00:09:08,115
enterprises.

242
00:09:08,620 --> 00:09:10,700
And we often tend to just think very

243
00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:13,259
narrowly within our our peculiar domains. You know,

244
00:09:13,259 --> 00:09:16,080
the technology teams might just think solely about

245
00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:18,160
technology and the finance thing,

246
00:09:18,540 --> 00:09:21,600
teams, team leaders. Think in terms of systems

247
00:09:21,660 --> 00:09:22,160
because,

248
00:09:22,779 --> 00:09:23,279
any

249
00:09:23,654 --> 00:09:25,434
enterprise, any modern day enterprise

250
00:09:26,134 --> 00:09:28,774
is not one thing. It's a it's a

251
00:09:28,774 --> 00:09:31,654
it's a a a system of parts that

252
00:09:31,654 --> 00:09:32,954
work together, and

253
00:09:33,334 --> 00:09:35,674
decisions made in one part of that systems

254
00:09:36,169 --> 00:09:36,669
would

255
00:09:37,049 --> 00:09:39,769
have effects elsewhere within the larger systems. So

256
00:09:39,769 --> 00:09:41,769
always think in terms of systems when you

257
00:09:41,769 --> 00:09:43,709
think about digital investments

258
00:09:44,169 --> 00:09:44,669
and,

259
00:09:45,049 --> 00:09:46,990
in in digital innovation.

260
00:09:47,449 --> 00:09:48,669
Thirdly, I would say,

261
00:09:49,014 --> 00:09:51,754
in order to build credibility as a leader,

262
00:09:52,294 --> 00:09:55,735
you really need disciplined execution. So so what

263
00:09:55,735 --> 00:09:57,674
what do I mean by that? It means,

264
00:09:58,134 --> 00:09:59,995
you have to be sure that there is

265
00:10:00,375 --> 00:10:02,454
a a a structured governance that that you

266
00:10:02,454 --> 00:10:05,410
use to manage what you set to do

267
00:10:05,410 --> 00:10:06,149
for the enterprise.

268
00:10:06,930 --> 00:10:08,769
Doing technology for the sake of technology or

269
00:10:08,769 --> 00:10:10,389
just because it's the latest innovation

270
00:10:11,009 --> 00:10:13,410
isn't good enough, and it would not build

271
00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:14,870
credibility. But having

272
00:10:15,410 --> 00:10:18,625
a a structured governance where you have stakeholder

273
00:10:18,625 --> 00:10:20,485
representation across your enterprise,

274
00:10:21,345 --> 00:10:22,865
the voice of the customer is at the

275
00:10:22,865 --> 00:10:25,365
table. And perhaps most importantly,

276
00:10:25,745 --> 00:10:28,644
you tie what you're trying to do to

277
00:10:28,704 --> 00:10:31,664
the, enterprise strategy. It needs to support the

278
00:10:31,664 --> 00:10:35,470
enterprise strategy. It can't be something isolated from

279
00:10:35,470 --> 00:10:38,289
it. So having that and then implementing

280
00:10:38,669 --> 00:10:40,529
and realizing value iteratively,

281
00:10:40,909 --> 00:10:42,610
meaning you implement,

282
00:10:43,069 --> 00:10:45,730
you you test, you measure, you readjust,

283
00:10:46,334 --> 00:10:49,375
you derive value quickly, give value to the

284
00:10:49,615 --> 00:10:52,334
represent value to the organization quickly, and adjust

285
00:10:52,334 --> 00:10:53,154
as necessary.

286
00:10:53,534 --> 00:10:54,754
That builds credibility

287
00:10:55,615 --> 00:10:56,754
within the organization.

288
00:10:57,774 --> 00:10:59,214
That that those those would be some some

289
00:10:59,214 --> 00:11:01,794
of the, advice I'll give to, to leaders.

290
00:11:02,149 --> 00:11:03,910
Well, yeah. I I love that. And just

291
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:06,889
for our readers taking or listeners taking notes,

292
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:10,009
would you synthesize those few pieces of advice

293
00:11:10,070 --> 00:11:11,750
just in a in a thirty seconds for

294
00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:14,950
a listener taking notes? So so learn always

295
00:11:14,950 --> 00:11:17,370
and continuously. Keep learning. Learn fast.

296
00:11:17,815 --> 00:11:19,034
And learn broadly.

297
00:11:19,975 --> 00:11:20,954
Build credibility

298
00:11:21,735 --> 00:11:22,634
through structured

299
00:11:23,095 --> 00:11:24,315
disciplined governance.

300
00:11:24,934 --> 00:11:28,154
Tie what you do to corporate strategy.

301
00:11:28,695 --> 00:11:30,154
It must not be disconnected

302
00:11:30,695 --> 00:11:31,834
from what's important

303
00:11:32,319 --> 00:11:33,779
to, to the enterprise.

304
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,000
Thank you very, very much. Thank you. Doctor

305
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,600
Agbola, it is great to visit with you,

306
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,360
Basheer. What a what a tremendous career and

307
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,360
tremendous leadership. Thank you. Thank you for joining

308
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,279
us today on the Betteridge Health Care podcast.

309
00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:47,562
You're just fantastic. Thank you so much.