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Hi, everyone. This is Lucas Voss with Becker's

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Healthcare. Thanks so much for tuning in to

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the Becker's Healthcare podcast series. Very excited for

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this topic today. Very relevant in today's day

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and age. Beyond the does practical

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AI for medical device management. And joining me

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for today's discussion, so excited to have him,

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Steve Martin, chief technology officer at TriMedx. Steve,

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thanks so much for being here today. It's

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great to have you.

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Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Absolutely. For our audience that might not know

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you, could you just introduce yourself and just

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share a little bit about your work in

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health care? Yeah. You bet. So, Stephen Martin,

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chief technology officer at Traimetics, but, a long

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time in in in tech.

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I won't bore you with with with all

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the details, but, I really started my career

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at the early days of Netscape. So going

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back to the, you know, the early days

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of the browser or the commercial Internet,

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I was at Microsoft for fifteen years,

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ran the, the Azure business as, as well

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as a few other things,

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and then, went to was at GE for

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a while before getting into health care. I

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in my late days at Microsoft, you know,

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I I had a really good piece of

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advice from a mentor.

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They said, in reality, there's only three industries

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on the planet that matter for the survival

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of the species.

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There's water, there's energy, and there's health care.

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And at that moment, I I kinda took

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the pledge to say I'm gonna spend the

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rest of my career in one of those

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three areas, and the last five years has

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been exclusively in in health care.

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I worked at Change Healthcare before. I was

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at, UnitedHealth,

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ran big portions of, of of of Optum's

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IT infrastructure.

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But the thing that people probably know the

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most about me was I was the person

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that ran the,

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the recovery

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after the Change Healthcare cyber attack at United

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and devoted,

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about a year of my life,

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to just getting things back,

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up and running after after the cyber attack,

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and then helping learn as much as we

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could from that and sharing with the industry.

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Yeah. I'm so excited to have you because,

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again, you have such great perspectives on the

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landscape right now, but, also, again, as you've

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mentioned, sort of the early days of the

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commercial Internet. And I feel like we're experiencing

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sort of the same

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right now,

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with technology and health care specifically.

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There's a lot of noise around AI specifically

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in health care right now, the bright shiny

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objects that are popping up everywhere.

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From your perspective,

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what's the right way for health systems right

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now to separate this hype that we're having,

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right, from practical innovation,

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and what should they consider when they're building

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an AI driven framework

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for their health care technology management?

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It's a great place to start. And if

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I was in the shoes of, you know,

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all of those, hardworking providers out there, it

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would be the question that's absolutely top of

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mind. How how do I get going? How

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do I separate back from fiction? And and

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I think the first thing that you do

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on on any good assignment, right, is to

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is to understand how you can segment it

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just a bit. And so I I I

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I encourage everyone I talk to about this

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to to gravitate away from the first use

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case that we all talk about.

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The first use case in AI that comes

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up in health care all the time is,

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hey. Is this gonna replace a doctor? Mhmm.

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Are we going to put a bot in

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front of a patient and have that that

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that bot do all of the work. And

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and and that that that is something that

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we could talk about on another

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on another show, and maybe there are some

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scenarios for handling service. But that is really

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not what we're talking about today. Yeah. And,

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in fact, for all of the the the

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the issues associated with that, there is so

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much that health care systems can do

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to implement AI that has nothing to do

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with patient immediate patient delivery.

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And so I really encourage people to think

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about how could you, you know, use Leverage

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AI just to improve, you know, the the

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things that you're doing on a daily basis

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for supply chain,

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for making sure that your your hardware is

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up and running and is is absolutely optimal,

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For doing, workforce management in terms of load

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balancing,

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making sure you've got the right piece of

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equipment at the right time. There are tons

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and tons and tons of use cases that

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don't have anything to do with care delivery.

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We should have the care delivery,

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conversation. We should have that that that debate.

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But in my mind, there is so much

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that we can do and learn,

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in the health care space with AI before

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we even get to, you know, the the

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the care delivery side of the house.

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And we're just starting that process, I feel

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like, to explore all of those areas that

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are useful,

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that we can really see a difference and

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the difference that AI can make.

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Absolutely.

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When we're looking at the application, though, what

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are some of the metrics, and what are

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some of the things that leaders should look

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at when they are evaluating whether AI is

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is really delivering real value for their organization,

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specifically in health care technology management? What are

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some of those metrics that that you would

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say, hey. We need to look at them?

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Yeah. You bet. And the the the macro

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level thing that I would say is, one,

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be prepared to experiment,

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and try different things. And if you assuming

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you've got an an organization that's large enough

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to support the the IT development of of

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these kinds of things, you should iterate very,

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very quickly or partner with organizations that that

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that are and we should come back to

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that in a in a in a second.

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But I think the the high order bid

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is experiment quickly and and not just because

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it's it's the right way to approach the

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problem, but also because in this space, you

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should expect very quick ROI.

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In fact, the thing that I tell people

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over and over again, this is not like

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the other systems that you install where you

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wait, you know, months and potentially even years,

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to to to start seeing ROI on those

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those types of investments. The impact for this

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work in the AI space should be relatively

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immediate.

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And if it's not,

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then continue to experiment, continue to iterate. But

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this is a place where you get to

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give some very different,

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advice than we have historically when it comes

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to technology.

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Expect results very quickly. Mhmm. And if you're

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not getting them, listen,

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because that is that's telling you something because

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it it it should be there. Otherwise, there's

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plenty other things to continue to iterate upon.

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So the return of investment, just to come

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back to this, the ROI is really the

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most critical thing for leaders to look at

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from from an organizational standpoint.

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Doesn't necessarily automatically

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mean it's it's it's, it's it's dollars gained,

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but it could be cost avoidance. Right? So

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we spend a lot of time talking about

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cost avoidance. It's also in making sure, you

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know, hey. The patients that you serve over

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the course of a week,

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what was that? Was that was that an

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optimal experience? Did you have all of the

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staff that you needed when you needed them,

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to make sure that your delivery was exactly

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what you what you wanted and reflected the

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philosophy of your of your organization.

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And the cost management side is just as

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important as the as the revenue maximization side.

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Yeah. Absolutely.

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I feel like you, more than anybody,

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knows about risk and knows about how to

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manage risk and be safe and promoting safety

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across an organization. And I was doing some

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research for this podcast, and there's 80% of

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health systems there using AI internally. It's there,

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but only 17%

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of them have a mature governance structure, which

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I think is very, very interesting.

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How do health systems ensure AI supports compliance,

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right, risk management

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rather than, okay, here's this new system, and

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they're introducing new vulnerabilities that they might not

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know about. How can they do that? Yeah.

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And and anytime we have a a an

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area of rapid change of technology, your point

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is exactly right, and you and you and

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you have to pay attention.

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It does get back to the other part

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of the the conversation from your your your

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prior question, though, because, well, Ed, to your

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point, yeah, the 80% of health systems report

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using AI internally.

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That's largely a number derived by what they're

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doing. Are they bringing AI to the table?

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I think that it would be it may

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surprise some health systems to find out that

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that number is probably closer to a 100%

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because the partners that you work with, the

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software that you, employ,

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that all the technology that you license, those

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suppliers are using AI. So you may be

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using AI as a function of using that

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technology whether you know it or not.

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And so this gets you know, it's even

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more to your point about how critical the

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governance part of this is. Governance is key,

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and you have to own it.

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You have to own it. No vendor is

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going to

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be that role provide that role for you.

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You have to take a leading role on

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acceptable use,

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and you have to go in and ask

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the hard questions. And if the people that

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you're working with are not coming to you

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saying, here's what we're doing on acceptable use.

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Here's our internal board for how we govern

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AI. Here's how we think about the responsibility

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that we have in in using these to

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make sure that we don't have,

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you know, issues around discrimination or or or

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or or over variability.

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Like, those kinds of issues come in. Here's

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what we're doing about it. If your suppliers

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and vendors are not having that conversation with

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you, that is a warning sign,

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because you you you've gotta go and ask

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those questions. Because if if they're not driving

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it and coming to the table telling you

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about it,

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that may not be as mature as you

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want. And that's another sign that you've gotta

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play that play that role for the for

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the governance of it.

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Yeah. And I wanna stay on this a

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little bit too because, again, everything is moving

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so fast, and it's certainly affecting

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organizations. And I'd love to know what your

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perspective is on how

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AI is going to evolve specifically in health

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care technology management right over the next three

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to five years. How do you see the

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role of AI changing in that regard?

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And I'd also love to know what what

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you're working on to to really support that

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long term innovation for organizations.

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Yeah. I I'm and I I if those

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that know me know that I I'm neither

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a pessimist nor an optimist. I I I'm

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not a half full, half empty kinda guy.

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I'm just it's just half. Right? It's just

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half. There's no reason to describe it as

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one way or or the other. But but,

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actually,

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against the trend, this is a place where

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I tend to be pretty optimistic.

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Like, there's a ton of naysayers, and and

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and the responsible use in AI conversation is

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a is a critical one. But I tend

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to think that this technology at the end

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of the day is going to help us

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deliver

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the right people in their at the right

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moment with the right equipment, work in the

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right way. And that is really the holy

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grail for health care. Think about how long

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you wait to get an appointment.

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Think about how long you wait when you're

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there. Think about all the paperwork that hospital

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administrators, doctors, nurses, other caregivers have to do

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for for procedural things.

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If we can together

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ensure that we're putting our providers in a

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way to spend the vast majority of their

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time in front of patients and AI as

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a secret sauce for helping make that happen,

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I think we've really accomplished something.

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And once we've done that,

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then we have earned the right to have

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that second conversation about how it can help

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drive a better outcome for patients after we've

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gotten through that first point. But in my

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mind, AI has permission,

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to enter this chat, if you will, with

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regards to doing optimization work in health care.

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And it needs to show us that it

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can deliver on all of those things for

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us to have the second conversation on the

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delivery side. Yeah. Absolutely. Is there anything that

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excites you that you're working on right now

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that you're really optimistic about that that you

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really love that you can you can bring

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to organizations? What are you working on that

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that's really innovative that you think is is

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really going to make a difference?

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You bet. Well, first, I would just start

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by saying we're doing the small things right.

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We've, you know, we've got the governance body.

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We're we're we're we're having

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on behalf of our our customers. But I

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what AI is allowing us to do

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is to have a set of conversations with

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customers that previously were really tough.

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For example, there are health care,

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providers and and and and and large organizations,

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the health care space, that have a philosophy

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about, I wanna make sure that the hardware

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that's needed, the equipment that's needed for any

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patient is available in that room 100% of

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of the time. That's their philosophy. That's how

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they wanna operate.

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We have other hospital systems that tell us

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there is no way that's an affordable option

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for us. We need to make sure that

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the right piece of equipment is available at

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the right time, but I can't afford to

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have not one more piece of equipment in

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this hospital than than I am. And you

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talk about the the the issues facing rural

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hospitals right now and care deliver care delivery

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in those spaces.

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Nothing is more important than the cost optimization

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side because it it'll determine whether or not

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they're allowed to continue to to provide health

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care or not, which is which is critical.

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We can use AI to have that conversation

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with those health care organizations.

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What is your philosophy on how you wanna

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operate? Is it just in time based on

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financial constraints, or is it everything in every

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single case?

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And we can use our technology then to

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make sure that is what you have. And

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so I think the most exciting bit about

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this really is making sure that technology is

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being used to better reflect

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the philosophy

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of the organization in terms of how they

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want to operate in a maximal in a

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maximal way. And watching people just light up

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to say, hey. How am I gonna use

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AI? And then I get to say,

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what kind of care do you want to

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deliver?

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What is important to you about your patient

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experience?

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And not just the pie in the sky

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stuff. Like, let's get down to the brass

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tacks about, you know, what a day in

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the life looks like, what your affordability is,

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you know, what are the what do those

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deals look like, and how can we help

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you with technology

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make that absolutely real on a day in

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and day out basis and do that without

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it being overbearing?

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Could it just be present? Could it just

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happen,

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without you having to do a lot of

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things different than you have in the historically?

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Yeah. We're coming full circle. Right? That's how

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we're eliminating the noise. That's how we're separating

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the bright shiny objects for the things that

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are actually making a difference, which is key.

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Steve, it's so great to have you. Thanks

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so much for taking some time with us.

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We've certainly entered the chat for this one.

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I'd love to open the floor to you.

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Is there anything else that that you wanna

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share that that we haven't touched on that

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might be important for our audience? I I

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would just say make sure you're taking an

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expansive view. You're working with technology providers that

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are having the hard conversations. They're thinking about

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cyber. They're thinking about responsible use. And making

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sure that when you go down this path,

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you you may not know the answer. If

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you do a good job of the data,

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analytics and you really get into the the

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guts of the AI of what the art

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of the possible,

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the questions of today versus the answers of

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tomorrow, those could be two different things.

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And so this is a place where we

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get to allow some manifest destiny. Right? Some

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some opportunity to learn things that we didn't

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know were out there and just get smarter

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day in, day out. It's an exciting time.

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And I think if we're done right, this

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will bring out the best in all of

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us.

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Steve, thanks again for being here. Great insights.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. We also want to thank our

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podcast sponsor, TriMedx. You can tune in to

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00:14:40,125 --> 00:14:42,524
more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare by visiting our

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podcast page at beckershospitalreview.com.