1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,580 Hi, everyone. This is Lucas Voss with Becker's 2 00:00:02,639 --> 00:00:04,799 Healthcare. Thanks so much for tuning in to 3 00:00:04,799 --> 00:00:06,980 the Becker's Healthcare podcast series. 4 00:00:07,359 --> 00:00:10,559 Today, we're talking about enterprise imaging in the 5 00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:13,544 cloud, and I have the perfect guest for 6 00:00:13,544 --> 00:00:17,064 today's episode to discuss this topic. Eitan Eshner, 7 00:00:17,064 --> 00:00:20,425 regional category leader of radiology informatics and integrated 8 00:00:20,425 --> 00:00:23,704 diagnostics at Philips North America. Eitan, great to 9 00:00:23,704 --> 00:00:25,704 have you. Hey, Lucas. Thank you so much. 10 00:00:25,704 --> 00:00:27,144 It's great to be here. Thanks for the 11 00:00:27,144 --> 00:00:27,644 invite. 12 00:00:28,109 --> 00:00:30,429 Absolutely. Excited to talk about this. Very, very 13 00:00:30,429 --> 00:00:32,510 topical and very on time right now. I 14 00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:34,670 wanna start off with introductions here really quickly. 15 00:00:34,670 --> 00:00:35,789 If you just wanna tell us a little 16 00:00:35,789 --> 00:00:37,390 bit about yourself and and your work in 17 00:00:37,390 --> 00:00:38,130 health care. 18 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:40,210 Yeah. Absolutely. So, 19 00:00:40,670 --> 00:00:42,450 you know, I have been 20 00:00:42,975 --> 00:00:45,295 working in health care for getting close to 21 00:00:45,295 --> 00:00:47,155 twenty years now. I think I'm at 18. 22 00:00:48,015 --> 00:00:50,575 I spent the first year and change of 23 00:00:50,575 --> 00:00:53,954 my time working on EMR deployments, primarily meditech, 24 00:00:54,895 --> 00:00:57,075 but the remainder of that time about 25 00:00:57,810 --> 00:00:59,890 sixteen ish years at this point in the 26 00:00:59,890 --> 00:01:03,270 medical imaging space, working primarily on packs 27 00:01:03,729 --> 00:01:06,950 and VNA and generally enterprise imaging system deployments. 28 00:01:07,729 --> 00:01:10,530 And that experience has very fortunately given me 29 00:01:10,530 --> 00:01:12,390 the opportunity to travel all over the globe. 30 00:01:12,854 --> 00:01:15,114 I spent three years working in China, 31 00:01:15,814 --> 00:01:17,034 on imaging deployments. 32 00:01:17,575 --> 00:01:20,375 I spent seven years working in Singapore on 33 00:01:20,375 --> 00:01:21,034 the same. 34 00:01:21,494 --> 00:01:22,935 And now I've been back in The United 35 00:01:22,935 --> 00:01:24,474 States since 02/2017, 36 00:01:25,189 --> 00:01:27,849 working with Philips here to, you know, continue 37 00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:30,870 the enterprise imaging journey in the cloud and 38 00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:32,409 otherwise in North America. 39 00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:34,150 Well, it's great to have you. Thanks for 40 00:01:34,150 --> 00:01:36,409 bringing your almost two decades of experience 41 00:01:37,349 --> 00:01:39,375 to the podcast. It's great to have you. 42 00:01:39,375 --> 00:01:41,314 And I know there's a lot of conversations 43 00:01:41,775 --> 00:01:44,015 around the cloud, so to speak, or the 44 00:01:44,015 --> 00:01:45,555 topic of cloud. Right? 45 00:01:46,174 --> 00:01:49,454 What are the three primary reasons right now 46 00:01:49,454 --> 00:01:52,415 customers should consider moving to the cloud and 47 00:01:52,415 --> 00:01:53,715 even think about it? 48 00:01:54,439 --> 00:01:55,819 Yeah. I I think there's 49 00:01:56,439 --> 00:01:58,519 a a number of different reasons, and a 50 00:01:58,519 --> 00:02:00,759 lot of them align to what is the 51 00:02:00,759 --> 00:02:03,159 actual value of the cloud in the first 52 00:02:03,159 --> 00:02:03,659 place. 53 00:02:04,599 --> 00:02:06,439 But but first and foremost, I think it 54 00:02:06,519 --> 00:02:07,004 it's 55 00:02:07,484 --> 00:02:09,025 appropriate and notable 56 00:02:10,044 --> 00:02:12,364 that pretty much every vendor in the imaging 57 00:02:12,364 --> 00:02:15,164 space is shifting to the cloud as a 58 00:02:15,164 --> 00:02:17,905 primary focal point of their ongoing strategy. 59 00:02:18,525 --> 00:02:20,064 So I think in some ways, 60 00:02:20,580 --> 00:02:22,180 although that maybe is not a good enough 61 00:02:22,180 --> 00:02:24,120 reason in of itself, it sort of necessitates 62 00:02:24,420 --> 00:02:25,159 the evaluation 63 00:02:25,460 --> 00:02:26,280 by customers 64 00:02:26,900 --> 00:02:28,500 as to whether or not from an enterprise 65 00:02:28,500 --> 00:02:30,280 imaging space anyway, they will, 66 00:02:30,980 --> 00:02:32,659 take the leap and move into the cloud 67 00:02:32,659 --> 00:02:34,200 since that is now where 68 00:02:34,635 --> 00:02:36,094 most of the major players 69 00:02:36,395 --> 00:02:37,855 within the industry are 70 00:02:38,235 --> 00:02:41,694 focusing their investment energy and see the future 71 00:02:41,754 --> 00:02:43,835 of health care really playing out in the 72 00:02:43,835 --> 00:02:45,675 imaging space and otherwise. So so first of 73 00:02:45,675 --> 00:02:48,254 all, that's just an industry direction. Right? 74 00:02:48,580 --> 00:02:50,659 But be beyond that, you know, the cloud 75 00:02:50,659 --> 00:02:51,639 clearly provides 76 00:02:52,020 --> 00:02:52,520 certain 77 00:02:53,060 --> 00:02:55,539 very tangible value propositions, and I think they're 78 00:02:55,539 --> 00:02:57,539 pretty well known at this point, but I'll 79 00:02:57,539 --> 00:02:58,599 talk through them anyway. 80 00:02:59,300 --> 00:03:02,324 So first of all, durability and scalability 81 00:03:03,104 --> 00:03:04,405 are one of the major 82 00:03:04,705 --> 00:03:05,205 advantages 83 00:03:05,504 --> 00:03:06,405 of the cloud. 84 00:03:07,185 --> 00:03:09,665 Of course, that needs to be considered in 85 00:03:09,665 --> 00:03:12,064 the context of any application that's moving. But 86 00:03:12,064 --> 00:03:13,125 generally speaking, 87 00:03:13,580 --> 00:03:15,199 the cloud offers technologies 88 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:16,400 to 89 00:03:17,099 --> 00:03:18,479 really scale out 90 00:03:18,780 --> 00:03:20,879 imaging platforms or other health care, 91 00:03:21,419 --> 00:03:21,919 solutions, 92 00:03:23,020 --> 00:03:23,759 and also 93 00:03:24,539 --> 00:03:26,800 provides a base platform of technology 94 00:03:27,180 --> 00:03:28,240 that enables, 95 00:03:28,794 --> 00:03:31,455 you know, a more durable and available 96 00:03:32,314 --> 00:03:33,375 solution that, 97 00:03:33,834 --> 00:03:36,174 is likely to better serve the customer, 98 00:03:36,794 --> 00:03:38,974 in regards to ongoing clinical operations. 99 00:03:39,754 --> 00:03:41,134 So so that that's one 100 00:03:41,490 --> 00:03:43,810 really important key component, just the durability and 101 00:03:43,810 --> 00:03:45,909 scalability that the cloud offers as a foundational 102 00:03:45,969 --> 00:03:47,030 technology layer. 103 00:03:47,810 --> 00:03:49,909 The next bit is security. 104 00:03:50,210 --> 00:03:52,069 Unfortunately, I think we're all 105 00:03:52,930 --> 00:03:53,430 relatively 106 00:03:53,810 --> 00:03:55,509 familiar with the 107 00:03:56,344 --> 00:03:56,844 increasing 108 00:03:57,145 --> 00:03:57,645 frequency 109 00:03:58,185 --> 00:03:58,665 and, 110 00:03:59,064 --> 00:03:59,564 also 111 00:03:59,865 --> 00:04:01,885 damaging nature of cybersecurity 112 00:04:02,425 --> 00:04:02,925 attacks, 113 00:04:03,544 --> 00:04:05,645 as well as the, I guess, increased sophistication 114 00:04:06,504 --> 00:04:07,564 of those same attacks 115 00:04:07,939 --> 00:04:09,879 and that health care institutions, 116 00:04:10,340 --> 00:04:12,840 providers themselves have actually been considered 117 00:04:13,539 --> 00:04:15,780 a prime target because of the urgency of 118 00:04:15,780 --> 00:04:17,959 restoring up your operations, the, 119 00:04:18,899 --> 00:04:21,459 value of the data, the penalties associated with 120 00:04:21,459 --> 00:04:23,824 losing control of that data. And 121 00:04:24,285 --> 00:04:24,785 we 122 00:04:25,085 --> 00:04:26,685 have, obviously, as an industry, come a long 123 00:04:26,685 --> 00:04:28,465 way, and there are many customers 124 00:04:29,324 --> 00:04:31,725 that do an excellent job within their own 125 00:04:31,725 --> 00:04:34,845 IT infrastructure and landscape, securing the applications and 126 00:04:34,845 --> 00:04:36,764 their data. And, of course, it's top of 127 00:04:36,764 --> 00:04:37,745 mind now. But 128 00:04:38,339 --> 00:04:41,540 even for those most gifted, most invested, most 129 00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:43,160 forward thinking customers, 130 00:04:44,259 --> 00:04:45,399 providing the same 131 00:04:45,779 --> 00:04:47,800 security controls and technology 132 00:04:48,819 --> 00:04:51,480 at the same scale and cost and efficacy 133 00:04:51,540 --> 00:04:54,355 that the hypervisors are able to provide it 134 00:04:54,355 --> 00:04:56,595 is no small thing. It was fundamentally impossible 135 00:04:56,595 --> 00:04:58,835 for most customers to get there. Yeah. Yeah. 136 00:04:58,835 --> 00:05:00,935 And that that's not to say that 137 00:05:01,395 --> 00:05:03,715 just by moving your systems to the cloud, 138 00:05:03,715 --> 00:05:06,329 you get security. You know, an irresponsible cloud 139 00:05:06,329 --> 00:05:08,889 deployment is just as bad as an on 140 00:05:08,889 --> 00:05:09,389 premise 141 00:05:09,769 --> 00:05:12,189 deployment that is not secured. Nonetheless, 142 00:05:12,889 --> 00:05:16,089 the tools are there, and they're affordable and 143 00:05:16,089 --> 00:05:16,990 sort of democratized 144 00:05:17,834 --> 00:05:19,214 for a wide 145 00:05:19,595 --> 00:05:22,095 range of customers and competencies to adopt. 146 00:05:22,875 --> 00:05:24,475 And and so it is just, I think, 147 00:05:24,475 --> 00:05:24,975 generally 148 00:05:25,675 --> 00:05:27,855 a better place to secure your data, 149 00:05:28,314 --> 00:05:30,814 and and, you know, run your IT stack 150 00:05:31,319 --> 00:05:33,339 as it pertains to the security question. 151 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,120 The final one, which is probably the most 152 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:37,100 interesting one, 153 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:38,060 is 154 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:39,020 the 155 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:39,899 opportunity 156 00:05:40,199 --> 00:05:42,759 to innovate and deliver better clinical care in 157 00:05:42,759 --> 00:05:45,100 the long run. And I I think that's 158 00:05:45,504 --> 00:05:48,064 for many health care applications, including in the 159 00:05:48,064 --> 00:05:49,444 imaging space, sort of 160 00:05:49,985 --> 00:05:52,625 at the first stages now. Right? It's not 161 00:05:52,625 --> 00:05:54,704 again that you move to the cloud and 162 00:05:54,704 --> 00:05:56,064 all of a sudden you've innovated and you've 163 00:05:56,064 --> 00:05:58,439 gotten all these new clinical care functionalities and 164 00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:00,199 you've really changed the way you deliver health 165 00:06:00,199 --> 00:06:00,939 care immediately. 166 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,500 But there are obviously 167 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:04,860 emergent 168 00:06:05,319 --> 00:06:05,819 technologies 169 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,600 and opportunities also for sharing data, you know, 170 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,365 across borders between customer sites, you know, even 171 00:06:13,365 --> 00:06:15,685 for a patient with their their families and 172 00:06:15,685 --> 00:06:17,944 other physicians that the cloud offers 173 00:06:18,324 --> 00:06:20,745 that probably over a long enough time horizon 174 00:06:20,805 --> 00:06:22,025 will truly 175 00:06:22,404 --> 00:06:25,064 impact the way that care is delivered. 176 00:06:25,685 --> 00:06:26,185 And 177 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:28,709 translating all of those technologies back to on 178 00:06:28,709 --> 00:06:30,810 premise deployments, while it may not be impossible, 179 00:06:31,029 --> 00:06:32,629 like, you know, the obvious one here is 180 00:06:32,629 --> 00:06:33,769 AI, it's not impossible. 181 00:06:34,389 --> 00:06:35,990 I think most of us know at this 182 00:06:35,990 --> 00:06:36,730 point that 183 00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:40,154 artificial intelligence sort of lives in the cloud. 184 00:06:40,154 --> 00:06:42,714 Right? You're talking about huge infrastructure and compute 185 00:06:42,714 --> 00:06:44,574 requirements. You're talking about potentially 186 00:06:45,194 --> 00:06:47,534 hundreds of different applications that have, 187 00:06:47,834 --> 00:06:50,875 you know, their own foundational models associated with 188 00:06:50,875 --> 00:06:53,480 them and that delivering that sort of infrastructure 189 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,959 and technology locally on premise for, again, most 190 00:06:55,959 --> 00:06:58,759 IT organizations is not possible. And even for 191 00:06:58,759 --> 00:07:00,199 the ones where it might be possible is 192 00:07:00,199 --> 00:07:01,259 certainly not desirable 193 00:07:01,879 --> 00:07:03,319 just because of what it means from an 194 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:06,779 overhead perspective for hardware and management and licensing 195 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,175 and so on and so forth. So I 196 00:07:09,175 --> 00:07:10,774 I think those are the reasons that, again, 197 00:07:10,774 --> 00:07:14,535 durability, scalability, security, and the the opportunity for 198 00:07:14,535 --> 00:07:16,694 clinical innovation and to change the way we 199 00:07:16,694 --> 00:07:19,334 deliver health care in The United States anyway, 200 00:07:19,334 --> 00:07:20,154 really globally, 201 00:07:20,535 --> 00:07:21,675 are the the main 202 00:07:22,169 --> 00:07:24,269 considerations that customers should be looking at. 203 00:07:24,569 --> 00:07:26,009 And then I love that you prefaced this 204 00:07:26,009 --> 00:07:27,769 by saying, you know, this is seems pretty 205 00:07:27,769 --> 00:07:29,850 obvious. Right? We've talked about the cloud for 206 00:07:29,850 --> 00:07:32,729 for quite some time. People should know some 207 00:07:32,729 --> 00:07:34,490 of these factors that you've mentioned because they 208 00:07:34,490 --> 00:07:36,110 are so important, like cybersecurity, 209 00:07:36,774 --> 00:07:38,694 like the clinical implications of it, which are 210 00:07:38,694 --> 00:07:40,294 so key. But the fact is that a 211 00:07:40,294 --> 00:07:41,894 lot of folks don't. Right? A lot of 212 00:07:41,894 --> 00:07:43,735 folks are not where they need to be 213 00:07:43,735 --> 00:07:45,974 from from a knowledge perspective and and really 214 00:07:45,974 --> 00:07:48,154 knowing how to operationalize some of this technology. 215 00:07:49,050 --> 00:07:50,649 What are some of the ways that health 216 00:07:50,649 --> 00:07:52,730 care providers can best leverage some of this 217 00:07:52,730 --> 00:07:54,829 cloud store data that that's there 218 00:07:55,129 --> 00:07:57,310 to really then enhance specifically 219 00:07:58,169 --> 00:07:59,629 enterprise imaging applications? 220 00:08:01,064 --> 00:08:03,944 Yeah. You know, there's, again, a a number 221 00:08:03,944 --> 00:08:05,004 of ways that 222 00:08:05,384 --> 00:08:08,824 you can approach sort of the opportunity with 223 00:08:08,824 --> 00:08:10,824 the data and what the cloud can eventually 224 00:08:10,824 --> 00:08:13,145 offer beyond their building scalability, but now getting 225 00:08:13,145 --> 00:08:15,245 into more of the innovation and insights perspective. 226 00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:17,769 And, you know, I'll I'll say to start 227 00:08:17,769 --> 00:08:20,410 off with that, we've entered over, really, just 228 00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:22,589 the last two years, very interesting 229 00:08:22,970 --> 00:08:24,110 period where, 230 00:08:24,410 --> 00:08:26,089 you know, I I think we've been going 231 00:08:26,089 --> 00:08:28,250 through, especially in enterprise imaging, and I guess 232 00:08:28,250 --> 00:08:29,870 you could say also in the EMR space, 233 00:08:30,764 --> 00:08:33,105 What I would just call is primarily digitization. 234 00:08:33,325 --> 00:08:35,424 Right? The EMRs came about, 235 00:08:35,804 --> 00:08:36,945 hacks came about, 236 00:08:37,404 --> 00:08:40,544 other imaging disciplines followed, but we've we've mostly 237 00:08:40,684 --> 00:08:42,705 digitized data up to this point. 238 00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:44,879 And a lot of the reason for that 239 00:08:44,879 --> 00:08:47,040 was this idea that we would unlock the 240 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,340 data, that we would drive 241 00:08:48,879 --> 00:08:49,379 insights, 242 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:52,660 and that we would really, again, enable 243 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:54,420 a better understanding 244 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,300 of how we can treat 245 00:08:57,735 --> 00:09:00,294 complex cases and improve health care and reduce 246 00:09:00,294 --> 00:09:01,894 costs and all of these things that was 247 00:09:01,894 --> 00:09:02,955 the promise of digitization, 248 00:09:03,495 --> 00:09:06,794 that actually turned out to be rather difficult 249 00:09:07,014 --> 00:09:09,654 to approach. Right? I mean, we we not 250 00:09:09,654 --> 00:09:11,095 to say there are no insights as a 251 00:09:11,095 --> 00:09:13,259 result of EMRs and and packs and all 252 00:09:13,259 --> 00:09:15,200 these things, but I don't think anybody 253 00:09:16,139 --> 00:09:17,500 got as far as we would have liked 254 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:19,660 it to. But just now, in the last 255 00:09:19,660 --> 00:09:22,540 two years, with really generative AI coming onto 256 00:09:22,540 --> 00:09:24,480 the scene, you now have this 257 00:09:25,095 --> 00:09:27,014 opportunity for the first time in history, I 258 00:09:27,014 --> 00:09:29,815 would say, to really put, like, intelligence or 259 00:09:29,815 --> 00:09:32,615 reasoning to disk and do more with the 260 00:09:32,615 --> 00:09:34,214 data than we've ever been able to do 261 00:09:34,214 --> 00:09:36,794 through standard data analytics opportunities. 262 00:09:37,654 --> 00:09:38,875 And so, you know, 263 00:09:39,250 --> 00:09:41,090 that is, I would say, the sort of, 264 00:09:41,090 --> 00:09:43,730 like, golden opportunity that exists out there now 265 00:09:43,730 --> 00:09:44,230 is 266 00:09:44,610 --> 00:09:46,210 how can I take all of my data? 267 00:09:46,210 --> 00:09:48,290 And it's not really just about imaging or 268 00:09:48,290 --> 00:09:50,950 about just radiology. It might be cross functional 269 00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:53,250 across multiple ologies in the imaging space and 270 00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:55,175 also probably combines 271 00:09:56,274 --> 00:10:00,514 medications data and, you know, clinical indications and 272 00:10:00,514 --> 00:10:03,175 reasons for orders to be done and basically 273 00:10:03,475 --> 00:10:05,235 a wealth of information that can come from 274 00:10:05,235 --> 00:10:06,855 any number of different sources, 275 00:10:07,634 --> 00:10:08,615 and then have 276 00:10:09,309 --> 00:10:10,370 these AI models 277 00:10:10,909 --> 00:10:13,709 basically process more data than we mere humans 278 00:10:13,709 --> 00:10:16,829 are fundamentally capable of managing and thinking through 279 00:10:16,829 --> 00:10:17,329 ourselves. 280 00:10:18,190 --> 00:10:20,750 And and then that really creates an amazing 281 00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:23,894 opportunity for, again, that sort of clinical 282 00:10:24,914 --> 00:10:25,414 advancement 283 00:10:26,034 --> 00:10:27,875 in in the way that we we treat 284 00:10:27,875 --> 00:10:30,294 patients and manage costs in The United States, 285 00:10:30,355 --> 00:10:30,934 at least, 286 00:10:31,394 --> 00:10:31,894 where 287 00:10:32,355 --> 00:10:33,735 you can start to drive 288 00:10:34,115 --> 00:10:38,054 more automation and better decision making with larger 289 00:10:38,250 --> 00:10:40,990 sets of data because of really the capabilities 290 00:10:41,210 --> 00:10:43,309 of the combination of the cloud and AI 291 00:10:43,529 --> 00:10:45,929 that enable you to understand more about, you 292 00:10:45,929 --> 00:10:47,529 know, what is the next best steps, how 293 00:10:47,529 --> 00:10:48,429 can I drive 294 00:10:48,809 --> 00:10:51,610 a Gentic follow-up for an imaging case, and 295 00:10:51,610 --> 00:10:52,570 so on and so forth? And I think 296 00:10:52,570 --> 00:10:53,710 that's really where 297 00:10:54,144 --> 00:10:56,464 the combination of the cloud and, you know, 298 00:10:56,464 --> 00:10:59,105 large language models, multimodal models will will eventually 299 00:10:59,105 --> 00:11:00,784 take us and and where a lot of 300 00:11:00,784 --> 00:11:03,345 the investment research focus is across the industry 301 00:11:03,345 --> 00:11:03,845 today. 302 00:11:04,225 --> 00:11:05,044 Yeah. Absolutely. 303 00:11:05,424 --> 00:11:07,184 You mentioned something very important in your in 304 00:11:07,184 --> 00:11:09,580 your previous answer here around cyber security. Right? 305 00:11:09,580 --> 00:11:11,340 You can there is promise when it comes 306 00:11:11,340 --> 00:11:12,000 to cloud 307 00:11:12,620 --> 00:11:14,940 storage, etcetera, in terms of providing more safety, 308 00:11:14,940 --> 00:11:16,860 but it has to be done right. It 309 00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:18,539 has to be something that is that is 310 00:11:18,539 --> 00:11:21,519 thought through that the implication, the application 311 00:11:22,125 --> 00:11:22,625 is 312 00:11:23,004 --> 00:11:25,745 is thoughtfully done and successfully done. 313 00:11:26,125 --> 00:11:28,785 I'm wondering what some of the key challenges 314 00:11:29,644 --> 00:11:32,465 you're seeing are that that health care institutions, 315 00:11:32,605 --> 00:11:34,065 health care IT teams 316 00:11:34,879 --> 00:11:36,419 encounter when they're migrating 317 00:11:36,799 --> 00:11:39,279 enterprise imaging systems to the cloud. Right? What 318 00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:40,799 are some of those things that you're seeing 319 00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:42,879 that that are challenges? And then also, what's 320 00:11:42,879 --> 00:11:44,419 helping address them right now? 321 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,500 Yeah. I I think there's, 322 00:11:46,879 --> 00:11:48,580 again, a number of different 323 00:11:48,884 --> 00:11:50,725 challenges that are being seen, but the the 324 00:11:50,725 --> 00:11:51,225 most 325 00:11:51,845 --> 00:11:54,665 common ones from an from an IT perspective 326 00:11:54,804 --> 00:11:57,524 anyway in terms of adoption are, you know, 327 00:11:57,524 --> 00:11:59,065 first of all, resourcing. 328 00:11:59,524 --> 00:12:02,245 We talk a lot, especially medical imaging, about 329 00:12:02,245 --> 00:12:05,190 the shortage of diagnosticians, whether it be radiologists 330 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:06,170 or digital pathologists. 331 00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:08,009 We talk about 332 00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:09,050 technologists 333 00:12:09,429 --> 00:12:10,649 and, you know, this 334 00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:12,490 really quite incredible 335 00:12:12,950 --> 00:12:15,670 gap in availability that there are for actually 336 00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:18,845 performing image acquisition within radiology department today across 337 00:12:18,845 --> 00:12:21,585 the country. But we don't talk as much 338 00:12:22,285 --> 00:12:25,184 about IT organizations and their ability to find 339 00:12:25,644 --> 00:12:27,644 the right skilled resources. And, of course, it 340 00:12:27,644 --> 00:12:30,125 depends a bit on geography and also policy 341 00:12:30,125 --> 00:12:31,884 in terms of who you're willing to hire 342 00:12:31,884 --> 00:12:33,504 and where you allow them to be. 343 00:12:33,884 --> 00:12:35,526 But, you know, in 344 00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:38,480 from the perspective of a, you know, seasoned 345 00:12:38,539 --> 00:12:41,200 health care technology professionals, the cloud is relatively 346 00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:45,259 new. And health care IT is not probably 347 00:12:45,259 --> 00:12:47,500 well known for being an early adopter of 348 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:49,600 new technologies for for good reasons. 349 00:12:50,115 --> 00:12:52,514 And that may be changing slightly now, but 350 00:12:52,514 --> 00:12:56,294 actually recruiting knowledgeable technology resources in all geographies 351 00:12:56,355 --> 00:12:58,455 over the country is is not so easy. 352 00:12:58,754 --> 00:13:00,434 So that that's one major challenge. I think 353 00:13:00,434 --> 00:13:02,754 the good news there is obviously that a 354 00:13:02,754 --> 00:13:03,575 lot of 355 00:13:04,009 --> 00:13:04,750 the industry, 356 00:13:05,129 --> 00:13:06,730 at least in medical imaging, and I think 357 00:13:06,730 --> 00:13:10,009 just generally so, is positioning itself to address 358 00:13:10,009 --> 00:13:12,029 that challenge in terms of providing, 359 00:13:12,889 --> 00:13:15,389 software as a service based solutions that really 360 00:13:16,024 --> 00:13:18,605 mask the technology burden for the customer. 361 00:13:18,985 --> 00:13:21,644 So, you know, and for Philips, for example, 362 00:13:22,345 --> 00:13:25,245 the opportunity for us to host and manage 363 00:13:25,465 --> 00:13:28,285 our own, you know, homegrown and developed solutions 364 00:13:28,825 --> 00:13:31,080 really means that the customer doesn't carry that 365 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,660 IT burden. And that is, from our perspective, 366 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,120 our core competency. Right? We know these solutions 367 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,740 better than our customers do. 368 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,200 We built them, so that should be the 369 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,920 way. And so we are able to provide 370 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,059 them to the customer, 371 00:13:44,574 --> 00:13:46,654 you know, in a way that provides them 372 00:13:46,654 --> 00:13:48,654 with the best and highest quality service with, 373 00:13:48,654 --> 00:13:51,054 you know, frequent updates and all these additional 374 00:13:51,054 --> 00:13:54,195 service entitlements that are very costly to achieve 375 00:13:54,334 --> 00:13:56,735 as an independent customer. And and and we're 376 00:13:56,735 --> 00:13:57,794 able to do so, 377 00:13:58,110 --> 00:14:00,830 hopefully, at a, you know, in a financial 378 00:14:00,830 --> 00:14:03,470 model that scales across our wide range of 379 00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:03,970 customers 380 00:14:04,350 --> 00:14:06,929 that provides a better total cost of ownership 381 00:14:07,389 --> 00:14:09,870 to every customer because it's sort of being 382 00:14:09,870 --> 00:14:12,350 shared as a service entitlement across the install 383 00:14:12,350 --> 00:14:12,850 base. 384 00:14:13,555 --> 00:14:15,894 But that that does bring me actually to 385 00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:18,195 the second of the major challenges, and I 386 00:14:18,195 --> 00:14:19,715 see this all the time in conversations with 387 00:14:19,715 --> 00:14:22,295 customers is cost justification and return on investment. 388 00:14:23,075 --> 00:14:25,415 It's hugely challenging in the cloud environment. 389 00:14:25,875 --> 00:14:27,415 A lot of customers, again, 390 00:14:28,139 --> 00:14:30,379 look at, you know, should I self host 391 00:14:30,379 --> 00:14:33,179 my solutions? What does it mean from a 392 00:14:33,179 --> 00:14:33,679 compute 393 00:14:34,139 --> 00:14:36,799 perspective, from a storage perspective, from a data, 394 00:14:37,579 --> 00:14:39,519 movement perspective, ingress and egress? 395 00:14:40,059 --> 00:14:42,865 And, obviously, every solution has different patterns and 396 00:14:42,865 --> 00:14:44,644 even, you know, different clinical 397 00:14:45,184 --> 00:14:47,445 disciplines have different patterns of access, 398 00:14:48,464 --> 00:14:50,065 in terms of how often the data is 399 00:14:50,065 --> 00:14:51,745 accessed and is reviewed and how much of 400 00:14:51,745 --> 00:14:53,424 us will go in and out of a 401 00:14:53,424 --> 00:14:54,404 cloud based solution. 402 00:14:55,024 --> 00:14:56,325 And so as a 403 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,399 customer evaluating your existing IT landscape, it can 404 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:01,559 be very challenging to really understand what are 405 00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:03,559 the metered costs of the cloud solution going 406 00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:06,220 to be. Right? It's very different cloud economics 407 00:15:06,759 --> 00:15:08,300 from what most 408 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:10,759 solutions in the health care space have been 409 00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:13,195 sold at as in the past, meaning 410 00:15:13,654 --> 00:15:15,654 most of the time solutions are sold almost 411 00:15:15,654 --> 00:15:18,214 as a break fix SMA. I buy software 412 00:15:18,214 --> 00:15:20,214 from you. I provision my own infrastructure. I 413 00:15:20,214 --> 00:15:21,654 can write down on a piece of paper 414 00:15:21,654 --> 00:15:24,029 all the servers and switches and, you know, 415 00:15:24,029 --> 00:15:26,190 cables and storage that are required, and I 416 00:15:26,190 --> 00:15:28,429 can roll that into a cost. And then 417 00:15:28,429 --> 00:15:30,509 there'll be a maintenance fee, and that's my 418 00:15:30,509 --> 00:15:32,269 cost. It's very easy to put down on 419 00:15:32,269 --> 00:15:32,769 paper. 420 00:15:33,389 --> 00:15:35,009 The cloud with its sort of dynamic, 421 00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:37,409 you pay for what you use 422 00:15:38,644 --> 00:15:40,024 metering model is 423 00:15:40,564 --> 00:15:43,625 much more complex to estimate to to derive 424 00:15:44,164 --> 00:15:47,125 an actual cost of ownership for, which, again, 425 00:15:47,125 --> 00:15:48,964 is another benefit of a software as a 426 00:15:48,964 --> 00:15:50,964 service model for customers who are willing to 427 00:15:50,964 --> 00:15:54,269 entertain that. The the vendors are usually in 428 00:15:54,269 --> 00:15:54,929 that model, 429 00:15:55,710 --> 00:15:58,850 again, taking over the risk of the operational 430 00:15:58,909 --> 00:16:00,750 run cost of the environment. We are making 431 00:16:00,750 --> 00:16:02,589 the assumptions based on our software. And what 432 00:16:02,589 --> 00:16:04,589 we know about it in common customer usage 433 00:16:04,589 --> 00:16:05,089 patterns 434 00:16:05,615 --> 00:16:07,375 and, of course, you know, information that we 435 00:16:07,375 --> 00:16:08,834 get from a customer during, 436 00:16:09,855 --> 00:16:12,815 you know, discussions prior to proceeding with a 437 00:16:12,815 --> 00:16:15,774 project so that we can appropriately estimate those 438 00:16:15,774 --> 00:16:17,774 costs and actually take the ownership and risk 439 00:16:17,774 --> 00:16:18,914 if we get it wrong. 440 00:16:20,190 --> 00:16:22,669 So, anyway, that that's that's another piece of 441 00:16:22,669 --> 00:16:24,209 the puzzle, the cost justification 442 00:16:24,589 --> 00:16:25,889 and return on investment. 443 00:16:26,509 --> 00:16:28,850 And I should probably say that oftentimes, 444 00:16:29,470 --> 00:16:32,769 the discussion leads itself in my experience to, 445 00:16:33,274 --> 00:16:34,715 oh, this is a lot more than I'm 446 00:16:34,715 --> 00:16:37,695 paying now to Philips or any other vendor. 447 00:16:38,075 --> 00:16:39,375 And, of course, that's true. 448 00:16:39,754 --> 00:16:40,495 The cloud 449 00:16:41,035 --> 00:16:43,375 from a current spend to future spend perspective 450 00:16:43,434 --> 00:16:45,695 may look more from a single vendor perspective, 451 00:16:45,754 --> 00:16:47,455 but you have to look at the full 452 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:50,160 picture as part of the justification. Are you 453 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,259 going to offset data center costs? 454 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:54,800 Will you be able to repurpose resources that 455 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,800 are actually running your data center? Is there 456 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,820 a real state investment there? 457 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:01,279 You know, will you reduce your spend on 458 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:03,220 securing your applications on premise? 459 00:17:03,975 --> 00:17:05,115 And so creating 460 00:17:06,055 --> 00:17:08,454 a ROI or cost justification model that's more 461 00:17:08,454 --> 00:17:11,194 holistic across many different solutions 462 00:17:11,654 --> 00:17:14,055 and considers all of the actual service entitlements 463 00:17:14,055 --> 00:17:15,734 you would get from a vendor if you're 464 00:17:15,734 --> 00:17:16,875 going down a SaaS 465 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,619 path is is something that 466 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,240 I think takes some educating and isn't maybe 467 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,220 the most familiar 468 00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:26,180 for everyone in the IT space today. 469 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:28,400 That's where the partnership piece comes in that 470 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,920 you mentioned. It's so important to have that 471 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,279 partner to be able to make some of 472 00:17:31,279 --> 00:17:32,980 these decisions and have those conversations. 473 00:17:33,335 --> 00:17:35,335 Hey, Tom. We colored so many different things 474 00:17:35,335 --> 00:17:37,654 here today in our conversation. You truly brought 475 00:17:37,654 --> 00:17:39,974 the two decades of experience to our podcast, 476 00:17:39,974 --> 00:17:41,494 and I wanna just thank you for for 477 00:17:41,494 --> 00:17:43,095 your time and insights today. It's great to 478 00:17:43,095 --> 00:17:44,855 have you. Thank you so much, Luis. I 479 00:17:44,855 --> 00:17:46,295 really appreciate you joining. Had a lot of 480 00:17:46,295 --> 00:17:48,369 fun. Yeah. Absolutely. And we also want to 481 00:17:48,369 --> 00:17:50,369 thank our podcast sponsor, Philips. You can tune 482 00:17:50,369 --> 00:17:52,609 in to more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare by 483 00:17:52,609 --> 00:17:56,789 visiting our podcast page at beckershospitalreview.com.