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This is s Hatton with the
Becker's Dental O Podcast.

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I'm thrilled to be joined
today by Jonathan Mason,

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chief Clinical Officer at Select
Dental Management. Jonathan,

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thank you so much for being here today.

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You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

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Great. Could you introduce yourself and
tell us a bit about your background?

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Yeah. Um, so yeah, my name's John Mason.
Um, I'm a general dentist. I have,

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I graduated dental school in 2006, um,

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was in private practice in Connecticut
with my father for eight years,

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and then bought a private
practice my own in Manchester,

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Vermont about seven and a half years
ago. Um, two years into that journey,

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after greatly improving my own practice,

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I decided to partner with a childhood
friend of mine, Elliot Zabel,

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who is our ceo o and we co-founded
Select Dental Management together, um,

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a a partnership model
Dsso, where, you know,

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our goal was really to partner
with like-minded growth-oriented

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dentists who were really running great
practices, um, that wanted to continue,

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you know, to have a value add partner,
continue to grow their practice, um,

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let us help them not only grow
the practice that they're in,

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but also transition into younger
dentists, um, you know, practice growth,

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whether it's, you know, adding into
operatories, adding up procedures, um,

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whatever it may be. Um,
and as a partnership model,
we really developed, uh,

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individual kind of, you know,

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treatment plans for each office
that we partner with. Um,

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we are now about five
years into our journey.

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We have 40 practices and that we, you
know, that we are partnered with. Um,

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and, you know, it continues to, to be
going great. Um, I serve now, you know,

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not only the co-founder, but I serve
as the chief clinical officer and, um,

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overseeing all of the, the, you know,
the entire clinical entity. Um, you know,

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whether it's doctors,
whether it's hygienists, um,

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people on our leadership team,

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and really making sure
that we are instituting the
standard of care within all

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of our practices and helping to maximize
opportunities within each one of our

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practices throughout our portfolio.

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Fantastic. Thanks for sharing. And I know
you mentioned Elliot. He's great. Um,

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I'm wondering, what was it, what's it
like working with your childhood friend?

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It's pretty, it is been pretty fun. Um,

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especially a childhood friend that did
not know anything about dentistry, uh,

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to start with.

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And I know you guys have talked to
him and many people listening to this.

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I've also talked to him. He
knows a lot about dentistry,

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especially about the business
of dentistry and running and,

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and running dental practices. Um,

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he will tell you I'm not the
most business oriented dentist.

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I am a wet figure dentist that really
has just was taught by my dad just to

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kind of treat patients right and
successful follow from there. I'd love to,

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I'd love getting you new
skills, and that's really
been the basis of my success.

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And, um, it's been really fun having a
friend that's really finance oriented,

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um, you know, into the numbers, seeing
how trends work and really understanding,

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I guess, you know,

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you can look back on the numbers in my
practice and see how successful it's

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been, but also how we can help drive
growth, um, in our other practices. Um,

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but it's been good, you know, it's
really good having a childhood friend.

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We've actually known each
other since kindergarten, um,

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and having a childhood friend that,
um, you know, I can be honest with,

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I can be open with <laugh>.
Um, I'm not worried, you know,

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he offends me all the time.
I offend him all the time.

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Having that kind of relationship is really
impactful in terms of growth and be,

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you know, being able to be honest with
each other about what we're doing. Um,

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you know, we do live kind of far
away. We live a few states away,

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so I don't see him as much,
but obviously my calls him, um,

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constantly throughout the week. So,
um, it's been great. It's been a,

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it's been a really, it's been a really
fun journey and, uh, yeah, hopefully,

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you know, it's, we have,

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we haven't run into too many issues
between us cause we really tend to serve

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slightly different things, but I,

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he's learned so much about dentistry
and really understands what it takes to,

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to, you know, to run
a successful practice.

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That's awesome. I think, I think we all
need a friendship like that <laugh>,

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so.

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Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's been,
it's, it's, it's been great.

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Yeah. <laugh>, so diving
into my first question here,

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what are the biggest issues
you're following in dental today?

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You know, I think the big, I mean the
biggest issue, the stuff that's come,

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come around that,

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that every is on everyone's radar is
the economy and is the bank's lending,

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I mean, when it really comes
to, to the dsso space and,

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and acquiring practices,
the, the amount of,

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of change within the lending
space, um, increased rates, um,

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decreased leverage, leverage amounts,
that's really, you know, in my opinion,

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affected the, the outward growth that, um,

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that we're able to do in terms of
acquisitions and things like that.

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So I don't know what the future's gonna
be. I mean, there's one aspect of the,

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of, of the financial issue,
which is what I just mentioned.

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And the other aspect is are the, you know,

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are the patients gonna start closing
up their, you know, their pocket books?

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Are they gonna stop spending
on, you know, back in two,

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I came into dentistry back
in 2008, which was, you know,

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the great recession
and there was a lot of,

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of expenditures that people were not
doing right. Cosmetic cases, ortho,

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stuff like that. Really
elective procedures when were,

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were gone for four or five
years in dentistry. Um,

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and I was right in the beginning
of my career as I was growing. Um,

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and you know, there, I,

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we have not seen that come to
fruition within our practices.

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We've been at multiple meetings and
other groups are not seeing it as well,

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but obviously that that isn't
big concern that's on a horizon.

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So I think for us, in order to mitigate
that risk at the practice level,

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really getting back to basics, right?

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Getting back to preventative dentistry
stuff that we're, we're sort of a mix.

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We have a lot of full for full fee
for service practices minus as well.

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So not as in tuned into insurances,

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but we have plenty of practices
that have our, you know,

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in network with a lot of PPOs.
But stuff that, you know,

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even the insurance covers, you know,
proper radiographs, fluoride sealants,

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preventative measures, um,

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really getting patients on board
with the kind of dentistry that,

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that we're tr that we're trying to, um,

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promote throughout our practices is our
way of kind of hedging that and making

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sure that, um, you know,
that these type of,

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that whatever's gonna happen
in the financial world,

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whatever people spending is gonna
be, will hopefully not, you know,

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hit us as hard.

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But obviously that's something that
I think we're all concerned about,

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but we really haven't
seen it happen right now.

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And I think we just had our best first
quarter ever in the history of the

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company. I know in my own practice,
um, I had my best first quarter ever.

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And so the, we're kind of waiting for
that shooter drop, but it hasn't yet.

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And so, um,

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really getting all of our practices on
board and maintaining all this preventive

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care for patients, getting things
early before they become much,

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much bigger procedures and,

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and being able to discuss that with
patients is how we're, you know,

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how we're approaching, um, you know, our
dentistry and our practices right now.

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Fantastic. And congratulations on, uh,

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for both you and select for
having your best, uh, Q1 ever.

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Yeah, thanks. It's kind of, it's, it's
kind of been, it's, it's, it's been nice.

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It's been a good, good, good first
start of the year, so hopefully we can,

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we can continue, continue to maintain it.

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Well, that's great. Thank
you. My next question is,

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what are you most excited about
and what makes you nervous?

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So, I mean, I think the
excitement, I'm really,

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really big into digital dentistry. Um,

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and I've not taken pretty much
not taken a analog impression in

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about 10 years. So I have
multiple scanners in my practice.

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We are really big on putting iTeros and
other scanners into practices depending

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on what the practices do they do.
Invisalign, Xero, if they don't,

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we we'll use a, a competiting,
um, scanner that I feel, you know,

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might be better for, for restorative work.

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But really getting into
the digital workflow is the
most exciting thing for me.

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And I know a lot of DSOs are doing
it. They've put in, you know, some,

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some are milling in the offices, some
aren't milling in the offices. Um,

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but having that really changes the patient
experience. And so we've got, we're,

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we've been piloting, um,
artificial intelligence on x-rays,

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I think from a dsso space that,
that is, to me, that is really,

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really exciting to get people on board.
We have 12 practices doing it right now.

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I've been using it for about six months.
Um, I think as, as we grow and we have,

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we have about 150
clinicians in our network,

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being able to really standardize what's
being done, what doctors are seeing, um,

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it's busy during the day. Many of, you
know, you're checking patients, you,

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you know, I have 15, 20
patients in my schedule.

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I'm checking 15 to 20 hygiene patients
today. There's a lot going on.

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Having that AI, being able
to help us read the x-rays,

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being able to confirm what
we're seeing or not seeing, um,

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is there as well as
identifying opportunities for
us to be able to treat. Um,

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I think it's really, really
exciting. And I think that, um,

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there's a lot of underdiagnosed
care, um, that's going on,

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and I think that that's gonna help
to solve that. And really, again,

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cre being able to treat
things while it's small,

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the AI seems to pick up on
a lot of smaller things.

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And I've gone into a lot of cavities and
we've taken a look at patient's perio,

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and they're there. I really am
trusting the, the computer, um,

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as well as verifying on, on my own,
um, imaging system. Um, but for me,

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that's been really, really effective.

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And I think getting after things when
they're smaller is gonna really help the

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patient care that we're delivering.

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As well as looking at it from
a more centralized DSO space,

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being able to standardize slash regularly
and also kind of audit at the practice

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levels about what our doctors are seeing
and what they're doing to make sure

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that, that they're doing the
right work. And so for me, that's,

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that's the kind of most, that's the most
exciting thing. Um, digital dentistry,

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everybody, you know, is here, especially
with the scanners and, and, you know,

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and crowns and bridges and everything
like that. Being able to scan for, um,

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as well as the, um, as well as the, uh,

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the patient experience. Something
like Ontario really, you know,

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rather than taking all these photographs,
which used to take a quick scan,

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patients are wowed by it. They love
it, they love seeing their teeth and,

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you know, it generates a lot of questions
from them about different issues,

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especially occlusal issues.
Um, a ton of post covid,

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just a ton of bism and occlusal
issues and broken teeth, um,

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that it's slowed down a little bit, but
we're still, we're still seeing, um,

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a lot of that, um, in terms of
what I'm, what I'm worried about,

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concerned about. Um, you know,
it's, it's, uh, I think that,

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um, I don't have too many worries right
now. I think we've really established a,

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a really great program, um, in
terms, you know, for our doctors and,

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and create a really good reputation. Um,
but being able to, I think it's really,

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really hard in order to properly ramp
younger doctors into doing the kind,

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you know, becoming the dentist that
they wanna become. Um, you know,

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getting them the proper training,
getting them the proper ce, um, you know,

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being able as a company to get them to
where they wanna be, where they wanna be,

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super gps. Um, you know, that's
always kind of on my mind and that's,

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they're very, very difficult in my
opinion to develop that program, um,

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because each doctor is so
individual. So it's always that,

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that to me is always one of the bigger
things that we knock our heads against.

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So how do we develop a great
program for training our dentist,

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getting them up to speed on procedures
they wanna do, what companies we,

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we can partner with to help us
do that? Um, and so, you know,

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that's always kind of at the,
at the back of my mind, always,

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always a concern of mine. Um,
you know, trying to recruit,

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trying to hire a younger
dentist and, you know,

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really be able to put them through,

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through a great program to get them
the training, um, that they need.

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I'm, I'm curious, what do you think is,

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is holding those young dentists
back from, from reaching, um, that,

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that growth potential
that you're talking about?

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I honestly think it's a little bit of
a mindset. Um, there's, we worked hard,

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I worked really, really hard for,
I still worked hard, but, you know,

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five to 10 years. It took a lot, you
know, you know, the amount of, um,

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the amount of hours, the amount of, you
know, if you talk to the older dentist,

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how much they worked the first five to
10 years outta practice, um, you know,

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people see successful dentists, they see
them working three, three days a week,

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three and a half days a week. And I just
think it's, it's, it's an expectation.

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You can't be there when you're first
a dentist. You need to work harder.

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I don't believe in dentists
working five days a week,

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but maybe four and a half cuz you will
burn out. But it takes a lot of effort,

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it takes a lot of time.

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You can't come outta dental school
and be somebody that's, you know,

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placing implants, restoring him, doing
full mouth rehabs, doing all these,

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all these constructive things.
It takes a while to get there.

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It takes five years, in my
opinion, um, in order to get to,

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to a point where you're comfortable
and a ton of continued education.

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And I think that that expectation that
I'm realistic about what to expect,

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and I think that there might
be unrealistic expectations
about where somebody

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can get coming right out of school. Um,
it takes a long time. You're working on,

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on patients.

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You're working on patients that don't
necessarily love coming to the dentist.

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Um, and so it takes a lot of
patience. It takes diagnosing,

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takes talking to people. Some of
the bigger cases I've ever done.

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I think I started talking with patients
five years before I ever did 'em.

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We were just talking about
it, what's possible, right?

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These patients aren't gonna say yes
on the first day to a lot of things,

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but understanding and keep on, you know,

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discussing with them what the benefits
are gonna be, um, and putting, you know,

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the doctors need to put themselves through
continuing education and it's a lot.

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I I used to do a hundred, 150 hours
a year of ce, um, went to spear, um,

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did all sorts of conferences and,
you know, that commitment to,

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to growing and realizing it's gonna
take five years, I think is important.

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And I don't necessarily,

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there are very few younger
doctors that I see that are

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like that to me understand that,
um, that importance. I just had a,

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a discussion with one of
our young associates today,

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and he went through
kind of an implant, uh,

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placement process that
we did two years ago.

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We did a lot of CE and we did a
hands-on thing and he wasn't ready.

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He was realistic. He's been working on
his restorative, getting his speed up,

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being more comfortable
dealing with patients.

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And he called me to this
morning and he was like, Hey,

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I'm ready to go start down this implant
pathway and we're gonna put him through

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another course. But it took him two
years in order to get that. And I really,

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I actually really, really
appreciate that he was,

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realized that he wasn't ready to
get there yet and had the realistic

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expectations of how long it'd taken
to, to get those additive skills, um,

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you know, under his, under his
balance into his clinical repertoire.

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Awesome. Thank you so much for
sharing. My last question for you is,

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what will the most effective healthcare
leaders need to be successful in the

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next two to three years?

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I mean, it comes, it comes down to
to to really, you know, you know,

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similar things. Um, one is gonna be
really good financial partners. Um,

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I think as we grow, having,
having people to, to um,

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understand, you know, having financial,

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financial partners to really understand
what the growth potential needs are

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going to be and ones that want,
want to go through that, um,

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I think it's gonna take a lot
of patience. So, um, you know,

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one thing as the economy, we don't
know what the economy's gonna do,

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but if it does go down, then it's
gonna be really important to,

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to go within the practices and start
really developing each practice.

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We find ourselves to be a very
much a value add partnership model.

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So we don't just buy 'em and just
let 'em be. Um, you know, I've heard,

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I've heard of word invisible dsso. I
had a meeting I had a few months ago.

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I didn't actually, I don't really know
what that is. Um, so, uh, you know,

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for us,

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we like to partner with doctors and we
like to help them improve and identify

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areas in the business that
they're gonna improve.

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So I think it's gonna be really,
really important that, um,

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all the DSOs really g kind of dive back
into their practices and see where they

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can maximize things, make
things more efficient, um,

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make them more profitable at a
practice level. Um, and, you know,

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while doing that and then going forward,
you know, growth, acquisition, um,

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you know, there's gonna be
a lot of retiring doctors,

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a lot of retiring doctors right now,
um, or doctors willing, willing to sell.

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You know, our, I think our,

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I think our average age of these days
that doctors we're partnering with and

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practice are partnering with
are in the low fifties, um,

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which I would never have believed five
years ago when we started this. Um,

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there's a lot of doctors that want to
continue to grow, continue to practice,

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um, but they're younger and
they're willing to stay in it.

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So I think that having, having that
mentality, um, of growing internally,

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growing within the four walls of dental
practices and putting in, you know,

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the best, um, best practices,
um, most, you know,

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really streamlining profitability at
the practice level is gonna be the most

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important thing that people do in the
next two to three years. Um, again, one,

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it's great for business, it's great for
valuations, um, and also hedges against,

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you know, what could happen in the,
in the financial economy outside of,

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of what, of what we're doing
in the dental industry.

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Fantastic. Well, Jonathan,

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thank you so much for your
insights today and your time.

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I look forward to connecting
with you again in the future.

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All right. You're welcome.
Thank you very much.